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Today's Essay Topic - The speed of gravity!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words. |
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words."
Don't wish to nitpick but if the sun suddenly vanished....that would be it. The catastrophic event would have occurred 8mins 20 seconds previously.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words.
Don't wish to nitpick but if the sun suddenly vanished....that would be it. The catastrophic event would have occurred 8mins 20 seconds previously. "
Do we leave orbit at that point in time - or 8 min 20 seconds earlier?? |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"If the Sun suddenly vanished it would not affect me - I read the Guardian 
I had heard you were more of an 'Observer' myself!!"
I can even be an Economist at times Sorry , did not mean to troll your thread which is a good one. |
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words.
Don't wish to nitpick but if the sun suddenly vanished....that would be it. The catastrophic event would have occurred 8mins 20 seconds previously.
Do we leave orbit at that point in time - or 8 min 20 seconds earlier??"
A good point. I would imagine at the point the event occurred. If there are any astrophysicists on the Forum I imagine they could answer that.
The flippant answer is that it would not matter to us (as a human race) as our existence would end. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words."
Who cares? If the Sun suddenly imploded, before we knew anything about it, almost everyone on the planet would be dead from a broken neck as the resulting collapse of matter at the centre of the Sun would create such a magnetic pull on the Earth, dragging it towards - not away - from the centre of our solar system at a rate of acceleration which our bodies have not evolved to handle.
For the Sun to simply 'go out' would, I think, mean it has collapsed into a 'thing' (can't remember the name) which has a density of something ridiculous like 1,000,000 tonnes to the sq millimeter, dragging us into the whole, thus vacated, at the centre of the solar system.
We would only fly off in the opposite direction - away from the Sun - if it were to explode and become (again I 'think', as my memory from the days when I was actually interested in The Sky at Night is a bit sketchy!!) a Super Nova from what is left.
Either way - we're fucked!!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words.
Don't wish to nitpick but if the sun suddenly vanished....that would be it. The catastrophic event would have occurred 8mins 20 seconds previously. "
I'm going to be pedantic about going from the speed of gravity in the title to the speed of light in the OP.....make your mind up
(still remember the speed of gravity from physics at school- 9.81 metres per second squared) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
For the Sun to simply 'go out' would, I think, mean it has collapsed into a 'thing' (can't remember the name) which has a density of something ridiculous like 1,000,000 tonnes to the sq millimeter"
Singularity
Size of a marble, weight of a planet...physics is fascinating stuff |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
For the Sun to simply 'go out' would, I think, mean it has collapsed into a 'thing' (can't remember the name) which has a density of something ridiculous like 1,000,000 tonnes to the sq millimeter
Singularity
Size of a marble, weight of a planet...physics is fascinating stuff "
That's it! Singularity. Knew someone would still have all their brain cells... |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words."
The speed of gravity is often measured as the speed of light. Many believe the Electromagnetic effect and gravity are one in the same. Einstein's famous unfinished unified field theory tried to solve this.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I also like the fact that if the sun was to implode we'd all be dragged into it with such force that we'd atomised and stretched out into an atomised line about 12 miles long accelerating until we're almost at light speed (hence the stretching as the lead particles travel faster than the tail particles) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The speed of gravity is often measured as the speed of light. Many believe the Electromagnetic effect and gravity are one in the same. Einstein's famous unfinished unified field theory tried to solve this.. "
Never heard that anywhere- light speed is considered to be near constant while gravity is based on the pull of the body exerting the force (which is why luna gravity is much less than earth gravity)  |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"I also like the fact that if the sun was to implode we'd all be dragged into it with such force that we'd atomised and stretched out into an atomised line about 12 miles long accelerating until we're almost at light speed (hence the stretching as the lead particles travel faster than the tail particles)"
The sun imploding would not increase its gravity. Its gravity would be the same because its mass would be the same
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I also like the fact that if the sun was to implode we'd all be dragged into it with such force that we'd atomised and stretched out into an atomised line about 12 miles long accelerating until we're almost at light speed (hence the stretching as the lead particles travel faster than the tail particles)
The sun imploding would not increase its gravity. Its gravity would be the same because its mass would be the same
"
Might be confusing it with the effects of approaching a black hole? |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"I also like the fact that if the sun was to implode we'd all be dragged into it with such force that we'd atomised and stretched out into an atomised line about 12 miles long accelerating until we're almost at light speed (hence the stretching as the lead particles travel faster than the tail particles)
The sun imploding would not increase its gravity. Its gravity would be the same because its mass would be the same
Might be confusing it with the effects of approaching a black hole?"
Yes, a black hole is different, it has an amazing amount of mass..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I also like the fact that if the sun was to implode we'd all be dragged into it with such force that we'd atomised and stretched out into an atomised line about 12 miles long accelerating until we're almost at light speed (hence the stretching as the lead particles travel faster than the tail particles)
The sun imploding would not increase its gravity. Its gravity would be the same because its mass would be the same
Might be confusing it with the effects of approaching a black hole?"
No, a Black Hole is something completely different. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the OP was hypothesizing that the sun instantaneously disappeared rather than collapsed in on itself.
To answer, ignoring the bit that we'd all be dead, I suspect that with the gravitational force removed that kept us in orbit we would then continue onwards in a straight line towards the end of the solar system and beyond until affected by another gravitational pull. I'm unsure as to wether the moon would spiral into us first though, I suspect it would.
And for the pedantic sods, I know that our orbit is a straight line through space/time.
And gravitational pull is relative to mass and not size. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the OP was hypothesizing that the sun instantaneously disappeared rather than collapsed in on itself.
To answer, ignoring the bit that we'd all be dead, I suspect that with the gravitational force removed that kept us in orbit we would then continue onwards in a straight line towards the end of the solar system and beyond until affected by another gravitational pull. I'm unsure as to wether the moon would spiral into us first though, I suspect it would.
And for the pedantic sods, I know that our orbit is a straight line through space/time.
And gravitational pull is relative to mass and not size. |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"I think the OP was hypothesizing that the sun instantaneously disappeared rather than collapsed in on itself.
To answer, ignoring the bit that we'd all be dead, I suspect that with the gravitational force removed that kept us in orbit we would then continue onwards in a straight line towards the end of the solar system and beyond until affected by another gravitational pull. I'm unsure as to wether the moon would spiral into us first though, I suspect it would.
And for the pedantic sods, I know that our orbit is a straight line through space/time.
And gravitational pull is relative to mass and not size. "
I think the question was more on timing. How long would it take the earth to not feel the gravitational effect of the sun anymore. Would it be instant or would they be a delay?
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"The answer is 'c'
"
You are correct, the answer is c ... c being the speed of light. Though in science we are still yet to prove that fact. Though experiments with magnetics (Same basic force is believe to apply) have shown results that almost prove it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the OP was hypothesizing that the sun instantaneously disappeared rather than collapsed in on itself.
To answer, ignoring the bit that we'd all be dead, I suspect that with the gravitational force removed that kept us in orbit we would then continue onwards in a straight line towards the end of the solar system and beyond until affected by another gravitational pull. I'm unsure as to wether the moon would spiral into us first though, I suspect it would.
And for the pedantic sods, I know that our orbit is a straight line through space/time.
And gravitational pull is relative to mass and not size.
I think the question was more on timing. How long would it take the earth to not feel the gravitational effect of the sun anymore. Would it be instant or would they be a delay?
"
The rate of change of gravitational field is typically thought of (within a vacuum) to be equal to the speed of light in space - or the constant 'c' (as popularised in Einstein's seminal equation).
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The answer is 'c'
You are correct, the answer is c ... c being the speed of light. Though in science we are still yet to prove that fact. Though experiments with magnetics (Same basic force is believe to apply) have shown results that almost prove it"
Thats the first time I've EVER used 4 words when someones given me 300 to do it! |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"I think the OP was hypothesizing that the sun instantaneously disappeared rather than collapsed in on itself.
To answer, ignoring the bit that we'd all be dead, I suspect that with the gravitational force removed that kept us in orbit we would then continue onwards in a straight line towards the end of the solar system and beyond until affected by another gravitational pull. I'm unsure as to wether the moon would spiral into us first though, I suspect it would.
And for the pedantic sods, I know that our orbit is a straight line through space/time.
And gravitational pull is relative to mass and not size.
I think the question was more on timing. How long would it take the earth to not feel the gravitational effect of the sun anymore. Would it be instant or would they be a delay?
The rate of change of gravitational field is typically thought of (within a vacuum) to be equal to the speed of light in space - or the constant 'c' (as popularised in Einstein's seminal equation).
"
In his unfinished unified field theory. He tried to say that electromagnetic, magnetic and gravity fields where all the same thing. (Though one stumbling block we that the first 2 have both positive and negative effects, where gravity has only shown 1) |
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"I think the OP was hypothesizing that the sun instantaneously disappeared rather than collapsed in on itself.
To answer, ignoring the bit that we'd all be dead, I suspect that with the gravitational force removed that kept us in orbit we would then continue onwards in a straight line towards the end of the solar system and beyond until affected by another gravitational pull. I'm unsure as to wether the moon would spiral into us first though, I suspect it would.
And for the pedantic sods, I know that our orbit is a straight line through space/time.
And gravitational pull is relative to mass and not size.
I think the question was more on timing. How long would it take the earth to not feel the gravitational effect of the sun anymore. Would it be instant or would they be a delay?
The rate of change of gravitational field is typically thought of (within a vacuum) to be equal to the speed of light in space - or the constant 'c' (as popularised in Einstein's seminal equation).
"
I heard somewhere that gravity is outside of the normal "laws" as it's almost inter dimensional and features in string theory and more recently m-theory. As in its "string" in its own right?
Don't quote me on that but I think that's what I read.
I'm not explaining this well, in the most part, because its beyond me.
In a very simplified view, gravity is incredibly weak, and presuming we're not in a decaying orbit around the sun, the distance and amount of gravity is in balance so, even though the pull of gravity would decay at, lets say the speed of light, the effect would be instantaneous because at the "anchor" point the pull has been released.
If that makes sense? We'd accelerate away, be ause we'd have a pull,(decaying at speed of light) but not enough to keep us in orbit.
But I'm on a conference call so that could all just be blurb.
D |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"
I heard somewhere that gravity is outside of the normal "laws" as it's almost inter dimensional and features in string theory and more recently m-theory. As in its "string" in its own right?
Don't quote me on that but I think that's what I read.
I'm not explaining this well, in the most part, because its beyond me.
In a very simplified view, gravity is incredibly weak, and presuming we're not in a decaying orbit around the sun, the distance and amount of gravity is in balance so, even though the pull of gravity would decay at, lets say the speed of light, the effect would be instantaneous because at the "anchor" point the pull has been released.
If that makes sense? We'd accelerate away, be ause we'd have a pull,(decaying at speed of light) but not enough to keep us in orbit.
But I'm on a conference call so that could all just be blurb.
"
You are correct in that some people believe gravity to be beyond the normal laws. Though I and so do must others believe that gravity is an effort that is within all laws. Just because we do not understand we it happens does not mean we do not know it effects.
With experiments we have shown the gravity is not an instant effect. It does not break the law the law of c being the max velocity of anything. |
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"
I heard somewhere that gravity is outside of the normal "laws" as it's almost inter dimensional and features in string theory and more recently m-theory. As in its "string" in its own right?
Don't quote me on that but I think that's what I read.
I'm not explaining this well, in the most part, because its beyond me.
In a very simplified view, gravity is incredibly weak, and presuming we're not in a decaying orbit around the sun, the distance and amount of gravity is in balance so, even though the pull of gravity would decay at, lets say the speed of light, the effect would be instantaneous because at the "anchor" point the pull has been released.
If that makes sense? We'd accelerate away, be ause we'd have a pull,(decaying at speed of light) but not enough to keep us in orbit.
But I'm on a conference call so that could all just be blurb.
You are correct in that some people believe gravity to be beyond the normal laws. Though I and so do must others believe that gravity is an effort that is within all laws. Just because we do not understand we it happens does not mean we do not know it effects.
With experiments we have shown the gravity is not an instant effect. It does not break the law the law of c being the max velocity of anything."
Great reply thank you. and I think then, that answers the ops question.
Cheers
D |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words.
Who cares? If the Sun suddenly imploded, before we knew anything about it, almost everyone on the planet would be dead from a broken neck as the resulting collapse of matter at the centre of the Sun would create such a magnetic pull on the Earth, dragging it towards - not away - from the centre of our solar system at a rate of acceleration which our bodies have not evolved to handle.
For the Sun to simply 'go out' would, I think, mean it has collapsed into a 'thing' (can't remember the name) which has a density of something ridiculous like 1,000,000 tonnes to the sq millimeter, dragging us into the whole, thus vacated, at the centre of the solar system.
We would only fly off in the opposite direction - away from the Sun - if it were to explode and become (again I 'think', as my memory from the days when I was actually interested in The Sky at Night is a bit sketchy!!) a Super Nova from what is left.
Either way - we're fucked!! "
The sun isn't big enough to create a pulsar star.
Our sun is pretty boring in the scale of stars.
We would orbit out of the solar system along with everything else |
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By *tomComMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words.
Who cares? If the Sun suddenly imploded, before we knew anything about it, almost everyone on the planet would be dead from a broken neck as the resulting collapse of matter at the centre of the Sun would create such a magnetic pull on the Earth, dragging it towards - not away - from the centre of our solar system at a rate of acceleration which our bodies have not evolved to handle.
For the Sun to simply 'go out' would, I think, mean it has collapsed into a 'thing' (can't remember the name) which has a density of something ridiculous like 1,000,000 tonnes to the sq millimeter, dragging us into the whole, thus vacated, at the centre of the solar system.
We would only fly off in the opposite direction - away from the Sun - if it were to explode and become (again I 'think', as my memory from the days when I was actually interested in The Sky at Night is a bit sketchy!!) a Super Nova from what is left.
Either way - we're fucked!!
The sun isn't big enough to create a pulsar star.
Our sun is pretty boring in the scale of stars.
We would orbit out of the solar system along with everything else "
One small issue I have just come up with though, gravity effects the travel of light(electromagnetic waves/particles) but does light have have an effect on gravity ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Newton’s theory of gravity claims that if the sun were suddenly to explode, the earth – some 93 million miles away – would instantaneously suffer a departure from its usual elliptical orbit. Even though it would take light from the explosion eight minutes to travel from the sun to the earth, in Newton’s theory knowledge that the sun had exploded would be instantaneously transmitted to the earth through the sudden change in the gravitational force governing its motion.
have to love cut and paste |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Open to all classmates. Everyone knows the speed of light. If the Sun suddenly vanished it would take 8 minutes and 20 seconds for it to go dark on Earth.
How long before we went flying off out of orbit and into space. Discuss i no more than 300 words."
I guess the answer would depend on two subjects
The moons rotational pull on the earth , other being our earths core if it stops spinning
If the sun stops burning all we will do is freeze
What would be more worring if the sun went out or vanished, firstly it would expand and absorbe the earth so me you or the cat named boo will never be here to see the sun vanish  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Gravity doesn't actually have speed, does it?"
Technically, you could say it doesn't. It does however exert a force on any body within its field of influence at a certain speed (as long as it has sufficient influence to overcome the objects inertia) |
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