FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Body shaming
Body shaming
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"Uh. If someone has a humiliation kink and specifically requests it?" This 
Otherwise no. Who has the right to degrade anyone, about anything...
I wish more people would just think it, whilst keeping their gobs shut. | |||
"Depends on context and how it’s said. I’m really not attracted to fat ladies - not body shaming I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. A lot of body shaming and kink shaming accusations I see on here I don’t believe are shaming. In my opinion of course " I tend to agree (I hope you’re sitting down, Nora) It’s often about the language used and the context in which it’s said. Adding value judgement and moral value to statements exacerbates that. | |||
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"Is it ever ok? Discuss" No But I'm not convinced that everyone shares the same definition of body shaming. I've learned commenting on someones body is not always well received even if you think it's a compliment. Some people seem very body aware and sensitive about it. But deliberately trying to cause someone else upset is pretty awful. | |||
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"It’s always ok as long as it’s against thin, muscular ect people especially on here In all seriousness there is no need for it but a lot of what is classed as body shaming actually isnt, I once witnessed someone get accused of fat shaming on here for simply stating he had a preference for slim woman. Several years ago a nhs advert that stated the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking was obesity, that was pulled due to complaints of fat shaming when it clearly wasn’t. I might have a pretty blunt view of it but if I disliked my body enough to the point that words of others hurt me I’d do something about it " So you don't mind body shaming? | |||
"It’s always ok as long as it’s against thin, muscular ect people especially on here In all seriousness there is no need for it but a lot of what is classed as body shaming actually isnt, I once witnessed someone get accused of fat shaming on here for simply stating he had a preference for slim woman. Several years ago a nhs advert that stated the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking was obesity, that was pulled due to complaints of fat shaming when it clearly wasn’t. I might have a pretty blunt view of it but if I disliked my body enough to the point that words of others hurt me I’d do something about it So you don't mind body shaming?" I never actually said that did I | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. " But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 " Is that the Schrodinger's Fat Paradox ? | |||
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" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 " I'm not attracted to you Doris because I just don't find you attractive. If someone asks why you don't find them attractive it's fair enough to give a reason I reckon. But leading with it unnecessarily can be hurtful and rude 💜 | |||
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"It’s always ok as long as it’s against thin, muscular ect people especially on here In all seriousness there is no need for it but a lot of what is classed as body shaming actually isnt, I once witnessed someone get accused of fat shaming on here for simply stating he had a preference for slim woman. Several years ago a nhs advert that stated the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking was obesity, that was pulled due to complaints of fat shaming when it clearly wasn’t. I might have a pretty blunt view of it but if I disliked my body enough to the point that words of others hurt me I’d do something about it So you don't mind body shaming? I never actually said that did I " In a roundabout way you did though. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 " That's body shaming and the guy being a wanker if he says that. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 Is that the Schrodinger's Fat Paradox ?" I don’t know, but I believe George Berkeley once possed the question-: “ If Doris falls over in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, do they still feel the tremor in the next village?” | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 That's body shaming and the guy being a wanker if he says that. " So when she asks it’s better to lie to her For me , personally, that would be far more insulting. | |||
"It’s always ok as long as it’s against thin, muscular ect people especially on here In all seriousness there is no need for it but a lot of what is classed as body shaming actually isnt, I once witnessed someone get accused of fat shaming on here for simply stating he had a preference for slim woman. Several years ago a nhs advert that stated the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking was obesity, that was pulled due to complaints of fat shaming when it clearly wasn’t. I might have a pretty blunt view of it but if I disliked my body enough to the point that words of others hurt me I’d do something about it So you don't mind body shaming? I never actually said that did I In a roundabout way you did though. " The start of the second paragraph of my post said there is no need for it but if you choose to interpret that as not minding it then please yourself | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 That's body shaming and the guy being a wanker if he says that. " Giving an honest reason when pressed for it is being a wanker? There's a big difference between an unsolicited Ew no fat chicks and an honest statement that you don't find someone's body type personally attractive when they ask to know why you don't want to fuck them. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 I'm not attracted to you Doris because I just don't find you attractive. If someone asks why you don't find them attractive it's fair enough to give a reason I reckon. But leading with it unnecessarily can be hurtful and rude 💜" Exactly, context is everything, simply the use of the descriptive word ‘fat’ is not the problem, it’s how you use it | |||
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" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 " Sorry I was kind of assuming we were talking on the forum in public. I don’t think it’s ok for someone to say nora you’re too fat for me in public as that’s personal, whereas stating it in general isn’t. I’ve never given reasons though. I just couldn’t say it’s because you’re this that or the other. I’ve always thought no is enough. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 " Then say, 'because I'm not'. Its easier to shut down the conversation, than deliberately go out to hurt someones feelings | |||
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" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 Then say, 'because I'm not'. Its easier to shut down the conversation, than deliberately go out to hurt someones feelings " Definitely this | |||
"declaring loudly 'ugh it shouldn't be allowed look at the state of that who would want to f*** that' in a club ultimately I don't want or need your approval." I haven't had that yet, but I know there's a lot of people thinking it and probably saying it behind my back. " I fully appreciate I'm not for everyone. I'm rather glad about that to be honest as I'm not sure I could do a bonnie blue everytime I went to a club anyway lol. All I ask is you keep your opinion to yourself and not comment on my body as I wouldn't on yours. It takes a lot of bravery to walk into a club knowing there are people willing to be blatantly rude and abusive towards you for simply existing. Attraction is more than just physical for most people even in swinging! " Exactly that, profoundly. I'm not your thing, that's fine, I get it, but for god's sake leave me alone to enjoy my night and the company of people who do want a bit of me. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 Then say, 'because I'm not'. Its easier to shut down the conversation, than deliberately go out to hurt someones feelings " But she has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, in this context there is no action of deliberately going out to hurt their feelings, you are answering a genuine question with a truthful answer. You haven’t added any derogatory adjectives to the word ‘fat’. I’m shorter than average, if I wasn’t getting anywhere with an attempted chat up and I asked them what it was about me they found unattractive and they replied “ Because you are short”, I wouldn’t for one moment consider that body shaming. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 Then say, 'because I'm not'. Its easier to shut down the conversation, than deliberately go out to hurt someones feelings But she has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, in this context there is no action of deliberately going out to hurt their feelings, you are answering a genuine question with a truthful answer. You haven’t added any derogatory adjectives to the word ‘fat’. I’m shorter than average, if I wasn’t getting anywhere with an attempted chat up and I asked them what it was about me they found unattractive and they replied “ Because you are short”, I wouldn’t for one moment consider that body shaming. " It's blunt Vs diplomatic. What's so bad about "sorry you're just not for me/not my type" Doris knows what size she is. Doris gets constant reminders. Doris doesn't need everyone who turns her down giving her another unnecessary reminder. | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 Then say, 'because I'm not'. Its easier to shut down the conversation, than deliberately go out to hurt someones feelings But she has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, in this context there is no action of deliberately going out to hurt their feelings, you are answering a genuine question with a truthful answer. You haven’t added any derogatory adjectives to the word ‘fat’. I’m shorter than average, if I wasn’t getting anywhere with an attempted chat up and I asked them what it was about me they found unattractive and they replied “ Because you are short”, I wouldn’t for one moment consider that body shaming. It's blunt Vs diplomatic. What's so bad about "sorry you're just not for me/not my type" Doris knows what size she is. Doris gets constant reminders. Doris doesn't need everyone who turns her down giving her another unnecessary reminder." But Doris has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, fobbing her off or making a false excuse is in itself insulting in my opinion. | |||
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"Doris knows what size she is. Doris gets constant reminders. Doris doesn't need everyone who turns her down giving her another unnecessary reminder. But Doris has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, fobbing her off or making a false excuse is in itself insulting in my opinion. " The asking is the definer here. Someone calls me fat or an ugly titless wonder unsolicited, they're a twat. If I ask for direct feedback on my attractiveness to someone, I'd hope for softer language, but I wouldn't call it body shaming to just answer a question honestly 💜 | |||
"Doris knows what size she is. Doris gets constant reminders. Doris doesn't need everyone who turns her down giving her another unnecessary reminder. But Doris has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, fobbing her off or making a false excuse is in itself insulting in my opinion. The asking is the definer here. Someone calls me fat or an ugly titless wonder unsolicited, they're a twat. If I ask for direct feedback on my attractiveness to someone, I'd hope for softer language, but I wouldn't call it body shaming to just answer a question honestly 💜" I could tell a man I prefer a little meat on a man, or, I prefer slim to average men, and not say sorry, your muscles and skin showing veins sticking out repulse me. Tact is the way to go. | |||
"Simple rule of thumb from a plus size/bbw/self confessed big girl: Stating a preference for gym fit/petite/thinner ladies/ladies under a size... on your profile absolutely fine. Stating not fat (insert derogatory term for the ample body) not ok. Expressing that you're not interested in someone as they're not your type/a polite no thanks absolutely fine. if they ask for further explanation a polite I'm not attracted to bigger women/men/bodies is perfectly acceptable. Telling someone you'd never touch a fatty like them/you're not desperate etc not ok. Every plus size person will have a preference for how you describe a larger body but ultimately it's about respect. Having been subjected to someone declaring loudly 'ugh it shouldn't be allowed look at the state of that who would want to f*** that' in a club ultimately I don't want or need your approval. I fully appreciate I'm not for everyone. I'm rather glad about that to be honest as I'm not sure I could do a bonnie blue everytime I went to a club anyway lol. All I ask is you keep your opinion to yourself and not comment on my body as I wouldn't on yours. It takes a lot of bravery to walk into a club knowing there are people willing to be blatantly rude and abusive towards you for simply existing. Attraction is more than just physical for most people even in swinging! " All this! And very well said. Personally if I ask someone why they don't want to fuck me and they reply "I'm not attracted to you", I don’t push any further. It doesn't matter whether it's because of my size or the fact my nose is a bit crooked - that's their business, not mine. | |||
"It’s always ok as long as it’s against thin, muscular ect people especially on here In all seriousness there is no need for it but a lot of what is classed as body shaming actually isnt, I once witnessed someone get accused of fat shaming on here for simply stating he had a preference for slim woman. Several years ago a nhs advert that stated the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking was obesity, that was pulled due to complaints of fat shaming when it clearly wasn’t. I might have a pretty blunt view of it but if I disliked my body enough to the point that words of others hurt me I’d do something about it So you don't mind body shaming?" Where have you read that? | |||
" I’m really not attracted to you Doris because you’re fat - body shaming. But what if Doris is fat, and that’s the reason that you are not attracted to her ? What if Doris asks you if you are attracted to her, and when you reply “No”, she asks why you are not attracted to her. 🤷 Then say, 'because I'm not'. Its easier to shut down the conversation, than deliberately go out to hurt someones feelings But she has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, in this context there is no action of deliberately going out to hurt their feelings, you are answering a genuine question with a truthful answer. You haven’t added any derogatory adjectives to the word ‘fat’. I’m shorter than average, if I wasn’t getting anywhere with an attempted chat up and I asked them what it was about me they found unattractive and they replied “ Because you are short”, I wouldn’t for one moment consider that body shaming. It's blunt Vs diplomatic. What's so bad about "sorry you're just not for me/not my type" Doris knows what size she is. Doris gets constant reminders. Doris doesn't need everyone who turns her down giving her another unnecessary reminder. But Doris has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, fobbing her off or making a false excuse is in itself insulting in my opinion. " you don’t owe anybody an explanation for not being sexually attracted to them or them not being your type. No is enough, and you shouldn’t feel the need to use the word . Sorry when saying no. That is not fobbing them off or making a false excuse. | |||
" But she has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, in this context there is no action of deliberately going out to hurt their feelings, you are answering a genuine question with a truthful answer. You haven’t added any derogatory adjectives to the word ‘fat’. you don’t owe anybody an explanation for not being sexually attracted to them or them not being your type. No is enough, and you shouldn’t feel the need to use the word . Sorry when saying no. That is not fobbing them off or making a false excuse." I have to say I completely agree with this. I would also question anybody who asks why! Why on earth do you need to know? Just know they don't find you attractive and that's the end. Doris needs to give her head a wobble!! | |||
"Simple rule of thumb from a plus size/bbw/self confessed big girl: Stating a preference for gym fit/petite/thinner ladies/ladies under a size... on your profile absolutely fine. Stating not fat (insert derogatory term for the ample body) not ok. Expressing that you're not interested in someone as they're not your type/a polite no thanks absolutely fine. if they ask for further explanation a polite I'm not attracted to bigger women/men/bodies is perfectly acceptable. Telling someone you'd never touch a fatty like them/you're not desperate etc not ok. Every plus size person will have a preference for how you describe a larger body but ultimately it's about respect. Having been subjected to someone declaring loudly 'ugh it shouldn't be allowed look at the state of that who would want to f*** that' in a club ultimately I don't want or need your approval. I fully appreciate I'm not for everyone. I'm rather glad about that to be honest as I'm not sure I could do a bonnie blue everytime I went to a club anyway lol. All I ask is you keep your opinion to yourself and not comment on my body as I wouldn't on yours. It takes a lot of bravery to walk into a club knowing there are people willing to be blatantly rude and abusive towards you for simply existing. Attraction is more than just physical for most people even in swinging! " This. I’m ok with the word fat, but the context matters. I also appreciate that every person has their own preferences for language used. Fat is one of those contentious words. My personal view is that fat doesn’t mean lesser value, being fat doesn’t mean I am not sexy too - that’s society that’s made people think that way over a word. Queer used to be an insult, yet I have many queer friends who love that word and have reclaimed it for good. Stating you don’t find fat women attractive - fine Stating fat women shouldn’t be out in public, “who wants to ever fuck a fat bitch like you” - Not fine I exist, I’m allowed to exist and I’m allowed to feel good about myself. Approval of the masses is not necessary. | |||
" But she has specifically asked why you are not attracted to her, in this context there is no action of deliberately going out to hurt their feelings, you are answering a genuine question with a truthful answer. You haven’t added any derogatory adjectives to the word ‘fat’. you don’t owe anybody an explanation for not being sexually attracted to them or them not being your type. No is enough, and you shouldn’t feel the need to use the word . Sorry when saying no. That is not fobbing them off or making a false excuse. I have to say I completely agree with this. I would also question anybody who asks why! Why on earth do you need to know? Just know they don't find you attractive and that's the end. Doris needs to give her head a wobble!!" Very good pro and con points raised in this one For me .. the one word ‘fat’ is body shaming use better language Also is this a blind date or does Doris look nothing like her profile pics ? In the former you can still have a nice meal or whatever as long as you both know where you stand In the latter I would nit get to the point of the question being asked as I would just walk away | |||
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"Yet there's a whole other thread about Bonnie Blues vag and everyone seems happy to shame away. " Ssshhushhh, you’re not supposed to notice things like that. | |||
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"Yet there's a whole other thread about Bonnie Blues vag and everyone seems happy to shame away. " *Applause* And so I ask the question again, is it ever ok? | |||
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"Sometimes people try to shame me for how much if my body I'm showing. My mum was excellent at that "I like how much you show. | |||
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"Sorry where do I find this Bonnie blue vag "Join the queue  | |||
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"I think we have reached a stage where it's very difficult to show concern about a person without being accused of 'shaming'. I think if a person's weight at either end of the scale, has reached a stage where it's impacting on their health and quality of life it should be possible to address that with them " I agree but it's no one's business to call someone fat if they are fat and underweight if they are underweight we know what we look like and it's up to ourselves to make ourselves healthy | |||
"I think we have reached a stage where it's very difficult to show concern about a person without being accused of 'shaming'. I think if a person's weight at either end of the scale, has reached a stage where it's impacting on their health and quality of life it should be possible to address that with them I agree but it's no one's business to call someone fat if they are fat and underweight if they are underweight we know what we look like and it's up to ourselves to make ourselves healthy" If either of our kids weight changed drastically I would express concern. My dad has recently lost a bit of weight and I've asked him to eat better if he can. We both privately expressed concern at Ariana Grande's appearance recently I wouldn't go up to a stranger and say anything though | |||
"Yet there's a whole other thread about Bonnie Blues vag and everyone seems happy to shame away. *Applause* And so I ask the question again, is it ever ok? " No, it's not, ever. You can express a preference, or a concern if you really feel the need to with someone you love, without shaming them. Everyone should focus on being emotionally mature and intelligent enough to use appropriate language. Can I just add, there's been a lot of assumption that body shaming always involves fat people - even though I am a very proud member of that community, it's important to remember that all kinds of bodies get shamed, including those who are slim, gym-fit, or disabled. | |||
"Yet there's a whole other thread about Bonnie Blues vag and everyone seems happy to shame away. *Applause* And so I ask the question again, is it ever ok? No, it's not, ever. You can express a preference, or a concern if you really feel the need to with someone you love, without shaming them. Everyone should focus on being emotionally mature and intelligent enough to use appropriate language. Can I just add, there's been a lot of assumption that body shaming always involves fat people - even though I am a very proud member of that community, it's important to remember that all kinds of bodies get shamed, including those who are slim, gym-fit, or disabled. " I agree. I see far more public shaming of slim and gym fit people using phrases that if similar we're used against bigger people would cause outrage. Privately I am given to understand it's a different matter | |||
" Can I just add, there's been a lot of assumption that body shaming always involves fat people - even though I am a very proud member of that community, it's important to remember that all kinds of bodies get shamed, including those who are slim, gym-fit, or disabled. " Or fit neatly into the binary. | |||
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"Sorry where do I find this Bonnie blue vag
Join the queue "Had to be a catch !!!! Where do I line up | |||
"Ah fuck I'm going to say it and let it out, but with the preface that I hold this back, always. This goes a bit past the superficial body shaming by what's considered curb side attraction where body shaming is always wrong. I have a background in science, health, nutrition and sports. This is not a comment specifically body shaming with Fab people, but in general society and interactions daily. From years of working with various groups, my own experiences, encounters, training, education....the whole lot, there's tons of things I see that are indicators of ill-health (both ends of the weight scale). Some are very subtle, but if you've spent time on the text books, reading report and being away, you see signs everywhere. Demographics and disease incidence makes certain symptoms more common, but if you know the signs you see them. And can't unsee them, and often the person with the symptoms can be oblivious to them. But this is superficial, an external observation and unless we've met, spoken, interacted and I've a judge on personality, support or know them, I don't know their backstory, what they know or what they've already addressed so I stay silent. If it's on Fab, I have my preferences on attractions but I always hold back any comments related to body shaming, dysmorphia, health etc as they would be unsolicited and I don't hold formal medical qualifications - but some people should see a registered doctor if they're not already, but that's not my business. I care for people. I like people. I enjoy mixing and getting to know people and I want people to be the people they want to be or can be. Then I have an internal conflict of "should I make a comment because if they are unaware, am I being negligent by not saying? Should I approach something that may be private or sensitive to them?" If it's someone I don't know, I stay silent. If it's someone I do know (and very much depending on intimacy, closeness, friendship etc) then I might (and only might) suggest the topic if it's appropriate. I'm going to get slaughtered on Fab for this comment because it's something which (certainly in the groups I work with) goes unsaid." Slaughtered? I think this is a very well considered comment x | |||
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"I work in grocery retailer (not saying which one) and one of the customers we get calls me fatty EVERYTIME he sees me and yet, I can't say anything back to him because I'm on shift... I so hope that there will come a day where a retail purge (a day where we can say anything for the day and not be sacked or reprimanded for it) to come along so I can say what's on my mind..." Please video it ! | |||
"I thought it was acceptable on the forum?" Totally opposite, but, you are literally my ideal body type - my husband's too. 😘 | |||
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"I think we have reached a stage where it's very difficult to show concern about a person without being accused of 'shaming'. I think if a person's weight at either end of the scale, has reached a stage where it's impacting on their health and quality of life it should be possible to address that with them " If you are a close friend who genuinely wants to help you can Di that in a sensitive non shaming wY. A stranger on the web can keep their opinions to themselves. | |||
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"Depends on the situation and whether for instance the obesity of an individual is causing a direct complication for others Eg taking up two seats on the bus etc " So you'd say something to somebody who was obese and taking up two seats know a bus?  | |||
"Depends on the situation and whether for instance the obesity of an individual is causing a direct complication for others Eg taking up two seats on the bus etc So you'd say something to somebody who was obese and taking up two seats know a bus? "I can't think what they could say - that person isn't going to lose weight in the next 2 minutes for you... | |||
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"Seems there's some confusion over what shaming is... Maybe it's different for different people and their is no single definition... People feel what they feel.. However that is defined and having a conversation about... What an amazing huge cock as an example... What beautiful pert breast... Does my bum look big in this... It should be possible to converse about body's without labelled as shaming... Equally recognising that some folks don't welcome any comments about their physique at all " But there's a fundamental difference between your first two statements which are compliments, the third which is a question requesting feedback.....and any form of shaming which is uninvited comments from a third party. Everyone can have an opinion. But when it's about someone else, usually a complete stranger, then maybe it's best left in your head, rather than put in the public domain? Of course discussions and debates about bodies can be held. It's when they include individuals and personal comments that haven't been requested by someone that it becomes shaming of a sort. If all someone is doing is making a disrespectful and disparaging comment about someone else then it's not discussion. Just shaming. | |||
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