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It is not Art.
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Depends how you define Art. Aristotle defined art as any action or consequences of the behaviours of people as opposed to nature. Personally I think it is art, because it’s about making you think and question |
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"Depends how you define Art. Aristotle defined art as any action or consequences of the behaviours of people as opposed to nature. Personally I think it is art, because it’s about making you think and question "
As with the pile of bricks it's making me think it's a load of bollocks..
Or is that still to be unveiled ..   |
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I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know? |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know? "
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana. |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know?
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana."
I get five for 68p. I'm missing a trick here |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know?
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana.
I get five for 68p. I'm missing a trick here"
Do you think if I stick a load of them to the side of my house, I can up it's value? |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know?
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana.
I get five for 68p. I'm missing a trick here
Do you think if I stick a load of them to the side of my house, I can up it's value?"
Just say Banksy did it... |
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"The piece is causing us to talk about it, question and discuss what is (and isn’t) Art. Is that not Art? 
Questioning if something is art makes it art? There's a delicious irony. "
It’s really not, when Art is about provoking thought and deliberation. Re the difference between porn and nude art |
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It's art. I agree with Trixie and Rag.
There are hundreds of things in my flat that are also art, and hundreds in your home, and so on.
It, and they, might be absolute wank.
I think this piece is absolute wank.
But it's still art.
The pieces in our homes (the way you choose to hang a spatula, angle a chair) may never have anyone see or comment, so they are just lost in the data flow of our communication, or lack thereof.
So the bigger question I'd want to ask is not "is it art?", but "what value (intellectually, emotionally, and financially) does it have?"
And there are going to be a lot of different answers from everyone to that.
It's art, it has no emotional value to me, no financial value beyond the cost of a banana, and a minor value intellectually because it stimulates the questions "is it art?" or "what is art?"
But it's really, really low in that value too (for me).
Because that question has been done to death for over a century.
But art, it is.
Wank (to me), and art (according to most definitions). |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?"
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on. |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know?
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana.
I get five for 68p. I'm missing a trick here"
The banana or price of bananas in general isn’t the thing
It’s how the artist gaffer taped it to the board.
I know.. its nonsense but it’s art. |
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"Tbh i think its like one mans trash is another mans gold. Could be art to some of you but to others its just a perfectly consumable banana"
Of course it is, but at that moment the artist gaffer tapped it to the board, it became art.
He’s sold it, so fair play to him. |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on."
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through: |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know?
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana.
I get five for 68p. I'm missing a trick here
The banana or price of bananas in general isn’t the thing
It’s how the artist gaffer taped it to the board.
I know.. its nonsense but it’s art."
Would it be art of the same value monetarily and aesthetically if I did it? |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on.
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through:"
Van Gogh’s work hated whilst he was alive.
What did they know? In 30 years time, this guy could be a genius |
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"I often wonder what the reaction would be if I taped a banana to a wall and tried to sell it.
I guess if someone is willing to pay to either see it or own it people will continue to take bananas to walls and call it art.
I've been to an exhibition which was carpet draped over step ladders and struggled to understand it but there were people who were obviously appreciating it.
What do I know?
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not paying more than a quid for a banana.
I get five for 68p. I'm missing a trick here
The banana or price of bananas in general isn’t the thing
It’s how the artist gaffer taped it to the board.
I know.. its nonsense but it’s art.
Would it be art of the same value monetarily and aesthetically if I did it?"
No as an art work it’s more than the component parts
We’d never think of saying da Vinci used two bits of white paint at 10p per brushstroke on the Mona Lisa. |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on.
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through:
Van Gogh’s work hated whilst he was alive.
What did they know? In 30 years time, this guy could be a genius "
I think anyone who can tape a banana to a wall and sell it is already a genius |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on.
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through:
Van Gogh’s work hated whilst he was alive.
What did they know? In 30 years time, this guy could be a genius
I think anyone who can tape a banana to a wall and sell it is already a genius "
Absolutely take the money and run.
Which was the name of a thing an artist did a few years ago |
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There are people that don't view movies and TV shows as art, plays as art, video games and animation as art. Dance and music as art. The list goes on.
What's the difference between realistic modern paintings and paintings like Van Gogh's. What's the difference between those and more abstract shit like Picasso's stuff or dogs playing poker! It may get even more and more further away from realistic details but somebody somewhere has thought it's artistic to some degree so therefore it is.
Usually it's a very creatively bankrupt mind that is unable to see, not what makes it desirable art but what makes it art in the first place. An idea of an expression of emotion.
I will say though, that art itself is easy to scam people with in terms of what emotion you were trying to convey. You make them believe it and you are on to something. It snowballs from there. |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on.
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through:"
Van Gogh? Everyone knew he was absolute wank (and mad) when he was alive.
And then....something happened....over a period of years, decades. And he wasn't absolute wank any more.
But it was always art.
Except it won't be (perhaps) when you've finished that new dictionary of yours  .
Bloody good luck with that xxx |
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"There are people that don't view movies and TV shows as art, plays as art, video games and animation as art. Dance and music as art. The list goes on.
What's the difference between realistic modern paintings and paintings like Van Gogh's. What's the difference between those and more abstract shit like Picasso's stuff or dogs playing poker! It may get even more and more further away from realistic details but somebody somewhere has thought it's artistic to some degree so therefore it is.
Usually it's a very creatively bankrupt mind that is unable to see, not what makes it desirable art but what makes it art in the first place. An idea of an expression of emotion.
I will say though, that art itself is easy to scam people with in terms of what emotion you were trying to convey. You make them believe it and you are on to something. It snowballs from there. "
I’m not really into modern art. I do prefer wandering in galleries if I can get a chance, some sculptures I’m like what? and definitely some modern art has me thinking they’ve taken the piss.
But 100% on what you’ve said there on conveying an emotion and the whole sort of scam from there. |
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I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on.
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through:
Van Gogh? Everyone knew he was absolute wank (and mad) when he was alive.
And then....something happened....over a period of years, decades. And he wasn't absolute wank any more.
But it was always art.
Except it won't be (perhaps) when you've finished that new dictionary of yours .
Bloody good luck with that xxx"
It's less about it being wank and more the concepts and open mind needed to express what is in the paintings and techniques used by a mad fool be appreciated in such ways. |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it"
Fonts and design of lettering is fascinating and what’s current, what was fashionable before and what works in advertising and what doesn’t is interesting to see.
Some I guess, is art, some isn’t. |
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"I guess if you want it to be art then it is. Does that mean if I don't want it to be, it isn't ?
You raise a valid point about definitions, and I don't like the notion of "fixed truths" because we humans don't know much really, so it looks like you can do that.
But you'll also need to take on the entire dictionary/language as well.
What is cat?
Potato?
Ennui?
Stars?
And so on.
I choose to do that. I think the whole discussion around the concept of 'what is art?' is massively and unnecessarily over complicated, just let individuals like what they like. However I'm more than happy to accept that in this respect I'm largely uneducated and probably very naive. :turns shredder on and puts lost Van Gogh through:
Van Gogh? Everyone knew he was absolute wank (and mad) when he was alive.
And then....something happened....over a period of years, decades. And he wasn't absolute wank any more.
But it was always art.
Except it won't be (perhaps) when you've finished that new dictionary of yours .
Bloody good luck with that xxx
It's less about it being wank and more the concepts and open mind needed to express what is in the paintings and techniques used by a mad fool be appreciated in such ways. "
I know nothing of mad fools  . |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it"
That’s interesting. Though, to be pedantic - most of the things listed are graphic design and not art. |
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"
A banana taped to a wall is just that
..
Ffs 
If it gets a reaction that was intended by the artist, it’s art."
I get the principle behind that, I suppose then one can literally call anything art in that case..
Literally anything..
|
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"
A banana taped to a wall is just that
..
Ffs
If it gets a reaction that was intended by the artist, it’s art.
I get the principle behind that, I suppose then one can literally call anything art in that case..
Literally anything..
"
Art is deeply intertwined with creativity and expression. There is a reason it's called Martial Arts.
"According to Bruce Lee, martial arts also have the nature of an art, since there is emotional communication and complete emotional expression." |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it
Fonts and design of lettering is fascinating and what’s current, what was fashionable before and what works in advertising and what doesn’t is interesting to see.
Some I guess, is art, some isn’t."
This is where my mind starts exploding. If the person thinks their work is art then it must be, no? |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it
That’s interesting. Though, to be pedantic - most of the things listed are graphic design and not art."
Graphic design isn't art? |
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It's not art. It's taking the piss out of thick people who are straining their tiny minds to think of reasons it's art. Emperor's new clothes type ballix.
Can't believe people actually fell for it. |
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"
A banana taped to a wall is just that
..
Ffs "
Actually the wall, banana and the piece of tape are not part of the artwork, they can all be replaced and the bananas already been eaten a couple of times.
|
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"It's not art. It's taking the piss out of thick people who are straining their tiny minds to think of reasons it's art. Emperor's new clothes type ballix.
Can't believe people actually fell for it. "
I recall a TV show some time ago where a group of five year olds painted abstract pieces. These were then shown to art critics as being the work of up and coming artists. The comments were quite interesting. This kind of proved to me that art is mostly about the spectator |
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"It's not art. It's taking the piss out of thick people who are straining their tiny minds to think of reasons it's art. Emperor's new clothes type ballix.
Can't believe people actually fell for it.
I recall a TV show some time ago where a group of five year olds painted abstract pieces. These were then shown to art critics as being the work of up and coming artists. The comments were quite interesting. This kind of proved to me that art is mostly about the spectator "
The universal popularity value of art is definitely more about the spectator. But those 5 year olds expressed their ideas through painting, making it art.
People need to separate something as being art or not from it being "good" or not.
But as I said above it is also highly susceptible to being scammed and conned (con artist!) by influencing others views on an art piece. |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it
Fonts and design of lettering is fascinating and what’s current, what was fashionable before and what works in advertising and what doesn’t is interesting to see.
Some I guess, is art, some isn’t.
This is where my mind starts exploding. If the person thinks their work is art then it must be, no?"
It’s sort of weird where things meant to be functional originally like NY Subway maps from the 70s are classic design and seen almost as art and similar with the older tube map designs.
Things like classic logos for companies too.
Some is appreciation and some is nostalgia, but originals go for decent money. |
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I remember watching a late-night magazine show covering an artist and his new piece - a pile of bricks.
He was waxing pretentious on the nature of his new installation, when a tramp came along, looked at it, and delivered his verdict:
"That's a load of fucking rubbish". |
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For me I think it's personal. If someone thinks it's art it can be. If someone thinks it's not. It can not be. I think the point around whether or not it provokes something or discussion is a bit of a red herring. There's tons of "art" that isn't seen /heard/touched let alone discussed. It still can be art. And conversely, stuff that is discussed may not always be considered art. Then there's the whole debate about whether it's good or bad art
|
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"I remember watching a late-night magazine show covering an artist and his new piece - a pile of bricks.
He was waxing pretentious on the nature of his new installation, when a tramp came along, looked at it, and delivered his verdict:
"That's a load of fucking rubbish"."
 . |
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"
A banana taped to a wall is just that
..
Ffs
If it gets a reaction that was intended by the artist, it’s art.
I get the principle behind that, I suppose then one can literally call anything art in that case..
Literally anything..
"
Not really, because it’s hard to get the intended response. Outrage doesn’t count and usually isn’t what the artist intends. |
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"It's not art. It's taking the piss out of thick people who are straining their tiny minds to think of reasons it's art. Emperor's new clothes type ballix.
Can't believe people actually fell for it.
I recall a TV show some time ago where a group of five year olds painted abstract pieces. These were then shown to art critics as being the work of up and coming artists. The comments were quite interesting. This kind of proved to me that art is mostly about the spectator "
I remember that, plus (and I could be wrong) wasn't there something similar where a chimpanzee had daubed several canvases which were also lauded by some art critics . |
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"
A banana taped to a wall is just that
..
Ffs
If it gets a reaction that was intended by the artist, it’s art.
I get the principle behind that, I suppose then one can literally call anything art in that case..
Literally anything..
Not really, because it’s hard to get the intended response. Outrage doesn’t count and usually isn’t what the artist intends."
Surely what the artist intends is solely down to the individual interpretation and if that is one of outrage then that's also as valid as other opinions? |
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Reminds me of the film Dr Terror's House of Horrors.
Art critic Christopher Lee is busy trashing the work of an artist he hates, when said artist appears and offers him the work of a new painter. He is immediately impressed:
"Clearly this is the work of a creative artist of some considerable promise. Notice the wide sweep of colour...the balance... the brushwork, together with a certain denial of the accepted standards, the mock-hypocritical humour of the entire composition. You could learn a great deal from this artist".
When asked if he wants to meet him, the maligned artist brings out a chimpanzee wielding a paintbrush, to the mortification of the critic. |
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"
A banana taped to a wall is just that
..
Ffs
If it gets a reaction that was intended by the artist, it’s art.
I get the principle behind that, I suppose then one can literally call anything art in that case..
Literally anything..
Not really, because it’s hard to get the intended response. Outrage doesn’t count and usually isn’t what the artist intends.
Surely what the artist intends is solely down to the individual interpretation and if that is one of outrage then that's also as valid as other opinions?"
That wouldn't be art if it causes outrage though...or would it? Bloody complicated this art stuff. |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it
That’s interesting. Though, to be pedantic - most of the things listed are graphic design and not art."
Graphic design can't be art? |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it
That’s interesting. Though, to be pedantic - most of the things listed are graphic design and not art.
Graphic design can't be art? "
Graphic design is not a loss leader. Artists create art because they are driven to it - graphic designers don’t even get out of bed unless the client has a budget, or the agency agrees an acceptable day rate. |
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"I can't remember where I saw this.
Someone who wanted to go to art college faced opposition from his father who was worried about his career prospects. The wanna be art student pointed out all the art he could see just walking down the street, shop signs, car number plates, the design of street lamps etc etc.
Calligraphy is a hobby of mine and until I started reading the books I was a bit snobbish about signage and hand writing, now I can appreciate a note on the inside of a cornflake packet if there's some form to it
That’s interesting. Though, to be pedantic - most of the things listed are graphic design and not art.
Graphic design can't be art?
Graphic design is not a loss leader. Artists create art because they are driven to it - graphic designers don’t even get out of bed unless the client has a budget, or the agency agrees an acceptable day rate. "
Art is defined by intent and can't be art if it's being paid for, have I understood that? What about portrait artists who are commissioned? |
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By *oding1Man 26 minutes ago
marlow |
Three old retired guys discussed this over breakfast this morning.
One guy a self made successful business man.
One married into money
And the last worked for a large organisation
Guess what we all thought it was a load of bollocks.
No wonder some kids today just want to be famous, with no talent. Makes no sense. |
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