FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > thatcher didnt deserve that

thatcher didnt deserve that

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I was watching the news earlier and seen how people were partying over Maggie thatchers death along with burning pictures of her in the street and protesting at her funeral! Am I the only one who thinks that's totally unacceptable, the woman did some things to piss people off but she was no Saddam Husain surely she deserved some dignity

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By *wingerdelightCouple over a year ago

eastliegh

agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sadly, some people do not have any intelligence or dignity. Colethorpe proved that.

I had more respect for the silent protesters who just turned their backs on as the coffin passed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

she didn't get the same treatment as Saddam tho so its a poor comparison. He got invaded bombed and executed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know I was only a baby when she was in power, I think it's just justifying tax payees money, 10 million is a hell alot of money, I think it would of been better if we paid half and her family did too

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

To some people she did a lot more than 'piss them off', not neccesarily saying i agree with what they did but thats their perception..

and they did what they did for those reasons..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree with you, even if you didn't agree with her policies, she was the 1st female & longest serving pm and everyone deserves dignity in death.

Also what people don't realise is, she wouldn't have been remotely bothered by the protests & parties. According to her friends & family she would also have found the ding dong song getting in the charts amusing x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For some its the only way thay can stand out in life .....doing nasty things. Makes them feel BIG .. And really thay look very sad.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"she didn't get the same treatment as Saddam tho so its a poor comparison. He got invaded bombed and executed"

Which he deserved because he was an evil bastard Maggie Thatcher didn't deserve the reaction she got is my point

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By *lackshadow7Man over a year ago

Toronto

Well for some, she was evil too.

Horses for courses.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I know I was only a baby when she was in power, I think it's just justifying tax payees money, 10 million is a hell alot of money, I think it would of been better if we paid half and her family did too "

Are you privvy to how much the Thatcher family did put into the coffers for the funeral? cos I understand it was a fair whack

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By *pen2offersxCouple over a year ago

kettering

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - it's how you vent it that needs consideration !

I for one would like to thank 'Maggie' for introducing the right to buy laws that helped me to buy my council house and in turn the lovely house my family and I now live in, without her I would be worse off.

And how many others I wonder ??

Thank you !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm just saying as a tax payer, I think 10 million is far too much

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You run that risk when they use their power to crush ordinary people. Look at public reactions to the deaths of Louis XVI, Mussolini or Ceaucescu.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"she didn't get the same treatment as Saddam tho so its a poor comparison. He got invaded bombed and executed

Which he deserved because he was an evil bastard Maggie Thatcher didn't deserve the reaction she got is my point "

She got what she deserved 22 years ago. Stabbed in the back by her own cabinet. So the one thing that would have truly hurt he she actually felt. Its a betrayal that's been largely airbrushed out over the last week or so.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Everyone is entitled to an opinion - it's how you vent it that needs consideration !

And how many others I wonder ??

Thank you ! "

which most would agree was a positive thing for all who could do so..

but she then stopped the monies raised from such sales being put back into building social housing for others..

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By *wingerdelightCouple over a year ago

eastliegh

i can remember this country before thatcher was in power, and for good or bad she did turn this country around, some suffered for this but there always be loosers for the greater good, but that aside she was an old lady who died, give her some respect. as to who payed for the funeral, of course we should pay, how would we look to the world if one of our most important figures didnt have a state funeral

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For some its the only way thay can stand out in life .....doing nasty things. Makes them feel BIG .. And really thay look very sad."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well for some, she was evil too.

Horses for courses."

You can't call her evil, she didn't perform mass genocide on her own people, she wasn't a dictator that murdered anyone that disagreed with her. She was a democratically elected prime minister, voted into power by the great British public, the people who partied & demonstrated had their right to vote for someone else at the time,

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Well for some, she was evil too.

Horses for courses.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She was certainly a chief architect of how politics is today in Britain, but the main thrust of her ideology was that the state had responsibility for no-one. And that's the real hypocrysy of a £10 million funeral, and while we're on the subject, keeping the royal family. While we're being told we have no responsibility to the unemployed, the sick, the elderly, the low paid, we still have to defer to the ruling classes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The miners blamed her for everything but if one is correct wasn't Wilson Lab. PM who closed over 200 deep mines down?

Was it not the unions who did let you work and demanded 4 days a week, decided if you were allowed into hospital.

She shook this country and made it work again...Don't care what Labour and their "friends" say, without her would be like Greece at a dead end... I hope people will see that in time

Angel

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Not a fan of most of what she did personally..

to put her in the same category as Churchill is stretching it and a distortion of history..

equally so as the Queen mum..

other PM's in our history have been 'pivotal' also..

maybe its all part of celebrity culture..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She was a woman in a mans world ...... And I think a lot hated that . Some hate strong woman like her in power and no matter what she did or did not do be wrong to some . People keep saying she did this and that ... It was not her alone there was 100s in it with her.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To some people she did a lot more than 'piss them off', not neccesarily saying i agree with what they did but thats their perception..

and they did what they did for those reasons.."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not a fan of most of what she did personally..

to put her in the same category as Churchill is stretching it and a distortion of history..

equally so as the Queen mum..

other PM's in our history have been 'pivotal' also..

maybe its all part of celebrity culture.. "

Attlee improved the life of millions more people than she did

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm just saying as a tax payer, I think 10 million is far too much "

Are you aware of the figure that the Thatcher family put in to the funeral as I understand it was a hefty sum - and would you have expected the Thatcher family to pay for all the security of heads of state from here and other countries for a funeral of a former prime minister who happened to be their mother ??

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple over a year ago

Takeley

I don't agree with this, she was a former pivotal prime minister for this country, due to her place in history she deserved the funeral she got. Saying she shouldn't have had this funeral is saying the churchill, queen mum & princess Diana should have had the funerals they had either, wether you agree or not she is in the same catagory. I'm very proud of this country and the pomp & ceremony we have, I am happy for my taxes to be used for events like this, jubilee celebration, Olympics and royal weddings. "
Thankyou for some sanity! I find it laughable how, now someone is dead, all the woes of the country can be attributed to them! Baroness Thatcher was a politician of her time, but was very visionary in a way, as all politic that has followed has proven to be just slightly right of centre. Her funeral yesterday was a fitting occasion and one I don't object for a second to contributing towards....bit academic really, complaining, because....whoops we all have done!

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By *oungkent1Couple over a year ago

Kent

So to all of you that think 10 million is too much, do you know that the vast majority of that was on security? Which without this cost would have cost the country millions more!

Without the police presence in London yesterday there would have been a great deal of trouble and could have resulted in riots like there were 2 years ago, would that have been better?

The main values she tried to promote were that you had to work for your money, if you don't like that policy then there is something wrong with you. I'd much rather my taxes went towards her funeral than the Olympics or people that can't be bothered to work.

I'm sure every person that attended a death party or celebrated her death has people that do not like them, how would they like it if they watched people doing the same to them on international tv for their families to see?

For her to have been in power so long, she must have had support! If politicians these days had the balls to be like her this country would be a better place (for those that can actually be bothered to contribute to society).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i can remember this country before thatcher was in power, and for good or bad she did turn this country around, some suffered for this but there always be loosers for the greater good, but that aside she was an old lady who died, give her some respect. as to who payed for the funeral, of course we should pay, how would we look to the world if one of our most important figures didnt have a state funeral"

Clement Atlee never had a state funeral. He had a far bigger mandate, and his government built the welfare state.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the people did not like her why put her into this seat of power more then once too .? A lot felt she was the person for the job to do that.

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By *illow PimpMan over a year ago

Midlothian

"The main values she tried to promote were that you had to work for your money, if you don't like that policy then there is something wrong with you."

I was around 9yo when she came to power. Worked full time and shifts at 15yo. Along with my parents and brothers living in a normal 2 bedroom and "box" room we had our wages arrested by H M love and co leaving me to a wage of £40 some weeks.

The more you worked hard the more was deducted.

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By *wingerdelightCouple over a year ago

eastliegh

Clement Atlee never had a state funeral. He had a far bigger mandate, and his government built the welfare state."

yes and look what has happened to that!

but seriously we can argue all day about our views on her funeral, but its happened and we should be proud of the way the contry has honoured one of its past leaders, we give europe millions every day, so ten million on her funeral is really a drop in the ocean, did you know that the uk was in profit at the end of her term, have you seen how much we owe now?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So to all of you that think 10 million is too much, do you know that the vast majority of that was on security? Which without this cost would have cost the country millions more!

Without the police presence in London yesterday there would have been a great deal of trouble and could have resulted in riots like there were 2 years ago, would that have been better?"

Perhaps a more low-key event which didn't rub people's noses in everything she's done wouldn't have demanded such a police presence.

"The main values she tried to promote were that you had to work for your money,"

So you're saying all those people who worked in the mining/manufacturing industries she destroyed didn't work hard? Yeah...they need to learn to do a proper day's grind like those chaps in the City.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"If the people did not like her why put her into this seat of power more then once too .? A lot felt she was the person for the job to do that."

She (Thatcher) was 14 points behind in the polls with an election looming, she bungled the defence of the Falklands which led to the loss of 255 servicemen and 3 civilians in the war that followed.

All the flag waving and 'Rule Britannia' as the ships sailed in and out of the country had the country in a trance of nationalism that won her the '83 election.

The Argentinians won her the second term of her government.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If the people did not like her why put her into this seat of power more then once too .? A lot felt she was the person for the job to do that.

She (Thatcher) was 14 points behind in the polls with an election looming, she bungled the defence of the Falklands which led to the loss of 255 servicemen and 3 civilians in the war that followed.

All the flag waving and 'Rule Britannia' as the ships sailed in and out of the country had the country in a trance of nationalism that won her the '83 election.

The Argentinians won her the second term of her government."

In other words Jingoism and rose tinted specs. Much like yesterday.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

" did you know that the uk was in profit at the end of her term, have you seen how much we owe now?"

yes but part of that alongside the 08 banking crash and Darlings dip is because 'cry me a river to make me look more human' Gideon Osborne dont know his arse from his elbow..

to which even the IMF have conceded..

on the 'did you know'..

did you know under her same tenure child poverty nearly trebled in this country also..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone is entitled to an opinion - it's how you vent it that needs consideration !

And how many others I wonder ??

Thank you ! "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A report by PWC claims that had Thatcher not used oil revenues to pay for tax cuts to benefit the rich then we would have been sitting on a nest egg of £350bn. That's a huge fuck up

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By *wingerdelightCouple over a year ago

eastliegh

" did you know that the uk was in profit at the end of her term, have you seen how much we owe now?

yes but part of that alongside the 08 banking crash and Darlings dip is because 'cry me a river to make me look more human' Gideon Osborne dont know his arse from his elbow..

to which even the IMF have conceded..

on the 'did you know'..

did you know under her same tenure child poverty nearly trebled in this country also.."

maybe the way child poverty was measured was changed, but im sorry ive never seen child poverty in this country that wasnt through abuse of the parents, when was the last time you saw a child die from lack of food.

ive just come back from india, they have real poverty there, in the uk you are considered poor if you dont have a 42 inch tv, its not the same

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"If the people did not like her why put her into this seat of power more then once too .? A lot felt she was the person for the job to do that.

She (Thatcher) was 14 points behind in the polls with an election looming, she bungled the defence of the Falklands which led to the loss of 255 servicemen and 3 civilians in the war that followed.

All the flag waving and 'Rule Britannia' as the ships sailed in and out of the country had the country in a trance of nationalism that won her the '83 election.

The Argentinians won her the second term of her government.

In other words Jingoism and rose tinted specs. Much like yesterday."

Particularly when you add in Cameron's continued public insistence that the North Koreans are a threat to Britain's security.....you get a touch of deja vue

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By *un_JuiceCouple over a year ago

Nr Chester

"Sadly, some people do not have any intelligence or dignity. Colethorpe proved that.

I had more respect for the silent protesters who just turned their backs on as the coffin passed."

This is sheer ignorance over Politics. Silent Protesting doesn't work. If you want to realise why people can get miffed and yes even bitter look at what the hell is going on. Agenda 21 is a good start.

We're being shafted left,right and centre and people still have eyes wide shut.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

" did you know that the uk was in profit at the end of her term, have you seen how much we owe now?

yes but part of that alongside the 08 banking crash and Darlings dip is because 'cry me a river to make me look more human' Gideon Osborne dont know his arse from his elbow..

to which even the IMF have conceded..

on the 'did you know'..

did you know under her same tenure child poverty nearly trebled in this country also..

ive just come back from india, they have real poverty there, in the uk you are considered poor if you dont have a 42 inch tv, its not the same"

does it matter how its measured..?

lets be honest its probably been set at a lower level..

have seen families in poverty in this country and not a tv in the whole house tbh..

also seen it in Kenya and whilst one cant equate here and there nor should'nt, to those here who are in it its pretty real to them..

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Clement Atlee never had a state funeral. He had a far bigger mandate, and his government built the welfare state.

yes and look what has happened to that!

Privatisation.....

British Gas 1986

British Steel 1988

Rolls Royce 1987

British Aerospace 1985

British Airways 1987

British Petroleum 1987

British Telecom 1984

Sealink Ferries 1984

Water Companies 1989

Rover Group 1988

Add to this the sale of 1 Million council houses, the vast income of North Sea Oil and Gas....

There would have been something drastically wrong if after all this the country wasn't in the black when Thatcher left office

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"yes and look what has happened to that!"

It got dismantled by Thatcher and all of her successors who decided the rich weren't rich enough

"did you know that the uk was in profit at the end of her term, have you seen how much we owe now?"

Yes, but who are the benefactors of this 'profit'? The huge bill that Blair and Brown racked up, who were the benefactors of that?

The banks that got bailed out...because they did their job badly. Private companies and inviduals subsidised, because of the peverse logic that assets of the state should all be sold off. A trend begun by Thatcher, and continued by Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron.

So now instead of British Rail, we have an underperforming system which costs the taxpayer three times as much, so it can go into the pockets of shareholders.

Housing benefit bills have gone up. Why? Because local authorities have far less assets in the way of housing. So instead of getting that money in rent, they're putting it in the back pockets of landlords who, not having social housing to compete with, can drive their rents up further. And hence the proprtion of housing benefit claimants in work has gone up massively (even while the numbers of people in work have dropped.

Hospital trusts have to use private money to finance building new hospitals and pay back what they borrowed several times over.

And then there's the military adventures we always seem to have the money for. And the aid budget which does nothing to reduce poverty in the global South, it's just there to keep them subservient to the North.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was in HM Forces before,during and after Maggie's Premiership. At the start of her time she knocked a few of the Generals,Admirals and Air Marshal's skulls together, told them to stop bickering over who got priority for MOD funding. Gradually we got better kit and morale improved. She got all the Forces pulling together. After the Falklands she still stood firmly in the Forces corner.

After Thatcher's demise, successive Governments have committed the Forces to a variety of theatres of war with varying degrees of success. Some of those commitments may not have been made under Thatcher - Blair's commitment to Iraq being a case in point.

I originate from Doncaster, and when the miner's strike was on I was serving in Germany. I went home on leave during the strike, and my house was in a pit village. I saw the damage that was being done to miner's families. People's lives were being torn apart by Scargill's intransigence. Unfortunately the miners were brainwashed by Scargill and his hard Left committee men, I will not make further comment on that. During my leave, the infamous Orgreave incident occurred. I saw how men came home that had been battered and bruised during the fighting. This subject isn't right for here but just to say that there's more to the story than meets the eye. Unfortunately, Scargill was a firebrand character that could mesmerise a crowd with his rhetoric in a similar fashion to some dictators who led their nations to war.

From a personal standpoint, I liked the way that Thatcher stood by her convictions but wished she would have taken a little more advice from some of the wise old heads in her Party. She sometimes couldn't "see the wood for the trees". As a former Serviceman who served under her Premiership I respect her for what she did for us then.

I am glad that there was a minimal amount of anti-Thatcher chanting at the funeral. No matter what anyone's point of view is, and everyone is entitled to them, a funeral is a sad time and should not be sullied on the day.

As to the cost of the funeral, if the Thatcher family contributed towards the cost then fair enough. They can afford it. Someone has pointed out here that she was a leader who did much good for this nation, and therefore the nation should contribute towards some of the funeral costs. I agree with that.

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By *wingerdelightCouple over a year ago

eastliegh

"I was in HM Forces before,during and after Maggie's Premiership. At the start of her time she knocked a few of the Generals,Admirals and Air Marshal's skulls together, told them to stop bickering over who got priority for MOD funding. Gradually we got better kit and morale improved. She got all the Forces pulling together. After the Falklands she still stood firmly in the Forces corner.

very well said, the point i was trying to make but less well

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

3 times the people put her into power to rule ... Now I was young and maybe I don't know everything and how some lives changed from what was done when she was in power ... But I think if she was that bad why was she there .? Was it better the devil you know ... then the one you don't . She was a power and even as I child I new that .. from my family seeing her on TV.

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By *lackshadow7Man over a year ago

Toronto

"Well for some, she was evil too.

Horses for courses.

I didn't say she was evil, i said for SOME...she was (or could be considered) evil. Same with anyone in a position of power.

I personally know people who benefited from her time as Prime Minister, and some who were horribly affected. depends who you speak to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not actually sure who you're saying injured who at Orgreave...but it's alleged that there's been some sort of cover-up by South Yorkshire Police along the lines of Hillsborough. I also think, as a lefty, that Scargill's tactics were all wrong, they shouldn't have been violent, and they should've done more to get the public on their side (although even the liberal press was strongly against them, so that wouldn't have helped). I can't profess to know too much, I was far too young at the time.

As you're an ex-serviceman, I was wondering this. Have you ever felt that the honest intention of men wanting to fight for and defend their country is exploited for far more sinister ends? (Iraq being a good point in case). It's something that can be applied to the police too...

Also, I'm guessing the average dead soldier's funeral is nowhere near in the region of £10million?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As you're an ex-serviceman, I was wondering this. Have you ever felt that the honest intention of men wanting to fight for and defend their country is exploited for far more sinister ends?"

This point isn't particularly in reference to Thatcher...I'm not a great fan of Blair either.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"3 times the people put her into power to rule ... Now I was young and maybe I don't know everything and how some lives changed from what was done when she was in power ... But I think if she was that bad why was she there .? Was it better the devil you know ... then the one you don't . She was a power and even as I child I new that .. from my family seeing her on TV."

If I don't know the other devil, I couldn't possibly comment.

The fact is, our electoral system still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of democracy. More people voted against Thatcher than for, but because of FPTP, just a huge majority with 42% of the vote. Another thing is under Thatcher (and Labour have been totally complicit in this as well)...local councils have virtually no power. Government has become completely centralised, and with it, further away from the people. Which is why under Thatcher electoral turnout fell drastically. Most people can't be bothered to vote anymore, because no one represents them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cameron was voted in with less than 30% of the vote. Does make you think.

I reckon there should exist a way to register an abstention. If such votes where sufficient it would make the election null and void as clearly the majority don't want any of the candidates presented.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Cameron was voted in with less than 30% of the vote. Does make you think.

AKA None of the Above. It'll never happen. They'd be sit scared of it. And we'd end up with endless coalitions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If I don't know the other devil, I couldn't possibly comment.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sadly, some people do not have any intelligence or dignity. Colethorpe proved that.

I had more respect for the silent protesters who just turned their backs on as the coffin passed.

We're being shafted left,right and centre and people still have eyes wide shut."

Yesterday was a funeral, not a political rally, so silent protest would have been dignified.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Ok if you are going to join in the debate can you do it without rejoicing in her death as like Admin said on the very first thread that they shut, they don't want it on here.

Debate about her policies is fine

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i thought it was disgraceful way before the funeral stage of things

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By * tallguyMan over a year ago

near horsham

If I don't know the other devil, I couldn't possibly comment.

Exactly right dont complain if you dont vote

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yesterday was a funeral, not a political rally, so silent protest would have been dignified."

Really couldn't bring myself to watch it, but I've heard it be described as a party political broadcast.

By thew way, I thought Frankie Boyle's Twitter commentry was hilarious (trigger warning: extremely sick, distasteful, disrespectful, and offensive)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What i dont understand is why people are still concerned about the past? It's not like we can change the past now is it.

Whatever she has done, she done out of her own judgement. May not have been correct but we need to focus on what's happening now and how we can change the future.

Im sick of all this bullshit! Nothing constructive ever comes out of any of this...same shit, just different day!

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I beg to differ. I was a single parent at that time. Some of it on benefits before I got in to Uni.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well yes it was in bad taste.

What was also in bad taste was that the costs were picked up by the public purse; that's just plain wrong any which way you look at it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Have you noticed government now delaying actual cost to taxpayers despite saying would be right after funeral.

Under no circumstances should anywhere near the figures mentioned have been spent on her.

True cost will be lot more than said otherwise it would have been mentioned. I grew up whilst she was in power and the privatisation of gas, lekky and railways etc have proved to be only beneficial to shareholders consumers have paid heavy price.

Whilst hating what she did and stood for having parties not my thing but understand anyone having grown up in her reign not feeling sad at her death. Contrast this with the death of a hillsbrough victims mum today. Thatcher was instrumental in the cover up and if there is a god she will be held accountable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, I'm guessing the average dead soldier's funeral is nowhere near in the region of £10million?"

Re Orgreave - I only saw the injured miners. As for a cover-up by the South Yorks police, that's a new one on me. Fact is that not only were SY Police there but also police officers from Forces all over the country including London's Met. The Met had the most fingers pointed against them in respect of violent police responses.

As a member of HM Forces, you get sent out to do a job and carry on afterwards. There's not much point in mulling over the why and wherefores, all joined to do a job and as long as it sustains the freedom of the UK and achieves whatever the aims are overseas, then most Servicemen and women don't get into wondering about the politics of the job too often.

As to the cost of a soldiers funeral - I have no idea.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only reason the ppl that did not like Iron Lady, is that she was a woman in a Mans world and for that they did not like, had it been a Man who was PM and did the same changes, I think nothing would have been said

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Sorry but I think you are way off there....it was not the sex of the person, it was the spiteful policies of the person that effected many people directly.

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By *ichaelangelaCouple over a year ago

notts

just wondering how many of the protesters went home to their "right to buy" home and sit calculating how much profit their house is worth, or already sold it on for a big profit

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm just saying as a tax payer, I think 10 million is far too much "

Yes i agree with you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well! we just hope that the Prime Ministers since Maggie Thatcher get the same treatment she did when its their turn. This country is in far worse mess now than when she was in power. The damage that is claimed she did can be undone, unlike the mess of today's country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

some think she deserved more respect

others think she didn't

still more others couldn't care less.

much like when anyone else dies. Its only being magnified due to her being (in)famous.

What did people expect to happen. She's dust now so it doesn't really matter.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Glad somebody does lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The only reason the ppl that did not like Iron Lady, is that she was a woman in a Mans world and for that they did not like, had it been a Man who was PM and did the same changes, I think nothing would have been said "
I think some hated a woman in a job like that ... it was a man world and she had power . When some think she should be just looking after her family .

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By *bbandflowCouple over a year ago

South Devon

Thatcher was a radical politician who took on the entrenched positions of those at both ends of the political spectrum..The land owning Tories who considered themselves having a divine right to govern, and the Labour party genuflecting to the massive Trade union vote of the nationalised industries, both having vested interest in maintaining the status quo, both playing Nero as Rome burned.

Pre Thatcher the financial heart of London was populated by men in bowler hats, ex public schoolboys, an unthinkable career for ex secondary modern schoolboys. Thatcher changed that, market traders from Essex without formal qualifications found themselves successful in the city.

Pre Thatcher in the state owned industries you had to be a member of the appropriate Trade Union in order to retain employment. Self perpetuating cash cows like British Leyland were living in an economic fantasy land, and we the tax payer footed the bill.

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

It is pointless denying that Thatcher's radical policies caused pain and hardship, and of course hit hardest in those communities dominated by a single industry. That they were in terminal decline was known pre Thatcher by the Labour party and the Tories. They simply put their self interested heads in the sand, neither tackling the problem or planning the future.

So Thatcher is hated and reviled by many, the socialists because she offered the working man a different vision of the future, where we could actually have a bank account! and by the Tories because she gave the freedom for vulgar, common, men and women to infiltrate those corridors of power historically denied them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm just saying as a tax payer, I think 10 million is far too much

Yes i agree with you

tho I think she should have had a good send off, I think 10 million is way over the top, think of how much good 9 million of that could have done our school and hospitals and a million would have still gave her a damn sight better send off than most of us will get

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By *exycleanerWoman over a year ago

pontefract

i was thinking to myself earlier if she

hadn't have stood up to the unions like she did where would this country be now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i was thinking to myself earlier if she

hadn't have stood up to the unions like she did where would this country be now "

Pity Cameron et al don't have the balls to go stand up against the EU, the Lady grew a big pair to go and stand up against the unions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Even is she had not closed the pits could you imagine getting the youth of today down a pit, it would some how go like this. Son you will go down the pit like your Dad and his Dad and his Dad have, ok Mam but may a I ask a question first, of course you can, ok Will I be able to get on Facebook on my phone while I'm down the pit, don't be stupid oh well I ain't going down

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power"

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To some people she was as bad as him I personally don't care but respect is earned in life not in death plus if their tax dollar pays for the funeral then I think they are entitled rust in peace I say

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By *oftfocusMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

She was very much in support of Section 28. Homophobia at its worst.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They would go down if they were gonna get a fair wage but in this screwed up over capitalist world we have created the chances are they would not be paid a fair wage

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her."

Do you have an oponion on JFK? Martin Luther King? Louis IV? Guy Fawkes? Jesus Christ?

What's your opinion of Churchill? I bet its different from mine. But that's all it is. An opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even is she had not closed the pits could you imagine getting the youth of today down a pit, it would some how go like this. Son you will go down the pit like your Dad and his Dad and his Dad have, ok Mam but may a I ask a question first, of course you can, ok Will I be able to get on Facebook on my phone while I'm down the pit, don't be stupid oh well I ain't going down "
Do you know who would be down there ? Same people who are working on the land in Norfolk ..... people from over seas a lot here working.Thay offer the work to local people but a lot wish to do it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In Liverpool a lot of the protesting and celebrating was due to her signature on the cover up of the hillsborough disaster.

Personally I did not protest or celebrate as was only a young child when she was in power but treated her death with the same respect I'd treat anyones grandmother and mother.

Can't say she will be missed by Liverpool though.

Paul

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her."

No different to the young people who were out on the streets of London yesterday who were Tory supporters....they were not born in 1979 either, but I don't see many negative comments about them....or are young Tories a special case?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 18/04/13 19:41:08]

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"......... but I don't see many negative comments about them....or are young Tories a special case?"

Hopefully an endangered species.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her.

Can we agree on a suitable age for people - of whatever political persuasion - to be allowed a valid opinion then?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her.

Can we agree on a suitable age for people - of whatever political persuasion - to be allowed a valid opinion then?"

Any age.....

Many children will have seen the destruction caused to their communities when their fathers and grandfathers couldn't get work for years.....if ever again in many cases.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Thatcher was a radical politician who took on the entrenched positions of those at both ends of the political spectrum..The land owning Tories who considered themselves having a divine right to govern, and the Labour party genuflecting to the massive Trade union vote of the nationalised industries, both having vested interest in maintaining the status quo, both playing Nero as Rome burned.

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

"
Really good post!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To those on this thread criticising people with phrases such as' they weren't even born' or 'wasn't old enough', can I ask if age is some sort of limiting factor to having an opinion. If so, let no one ever say a bad word about Hitler again because none of you are old enough to know.

Someone made the comparison earlier on about Saddam, something along the lines of 'She wasn't as bad'. Maybe not, but she did sell him the weapons and enable him to be the monster he was. And let us not forget the defence of General Pinochet who killed over 2000 of his own people and tortured over 30000. I won't mention Jimmy Saville either because that's over kill.

I could go on to point out that in the decade prior to her rule, economic growth averaged 2.5% and then ten years of her rule it went up a whopping, massive, humongous 0.2% to 2.7% Most economists would call that stagnant, but that doesn't fit into the portrayal, so would overlook that. Equally the unemployment levels rose to over 3 million, almost doubling in comparison to pre-Thatcher.

Utilities sold off resulting in rocketing energy bills, closure of British coal mines and replacing them with the import of more expensive foreign coal which still to this day accounts for 38% of the UK's energy production.

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her.

Can we agree on a suitable age for people - of whatever political persuasion - to be allowed a valid opinion then?

Any age.....

Many children will have seen the destruction caused to their communities when their fathers and grandfathers couldn't get work for years.....if ever again in many cases."

Of course. But haven't you intimated earlier here that to have an opinion on this worth considering, you need to have lived through a given set of circumstances.

This is not to say I disagree necessarily with the sentiment of what you are saying, more that I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bath water. Afterall, I'm sure we both have our opinions on the origins of how the Great War began. We weren't there; but our opinion of it shouldn't be dismissed. Should it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To those on this thread criticising people with phrases such as' they weren't even born' or 'wasn't old enough', can I ask if age is some sort of limiting factor to having an opinion. If so, let no one ever say a bad word about Hitler again because none of you are old enough to know.

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone is entitled to an opinion - it's how you vent it that needs consideration !

And how many others I wonder ??

Thank you !

which most would agree was a positive thing for all who could do so..

but she then stopped the monies raised from such sales being put back into building social housing for others.."

She sold the council houses, like the rest of the countries utilities to prop up the dole queues she caused, i remember North sea gas , it was all going to be free, it was blown again to prop up the doles queue, so she could pay the unions back for what they did to grining Ted, think back how controlling she was, and she advocated freedom, but that was when it suited her and her politics

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By *emon tart Double creamCouple over a year ago

Leeds

I detested her for Hillsborough and continuing to cover it up and would have loved for her to survive long enough to see how much involvement she had in the cover up.... I was too young to be impacted by her policies.

I can see both sides in that she did put our country back on the map but she also made huge mistakes with the privatisation of all our companies.

I respect that she was a mother though and so I won't be dancing on her grave but I also won't lose any sleep over her too.

But not many people will divide opinion like her so she definitely made a mark...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her.

Can we agree on a suitable age for people - of whatever political persuasion - to be allowed a valid opinion then?

Any age.....

Many children will have seen the destruction caused to their communities when their fathers and grandfathers couldn't get work for years.....if ever again in many cases.

Of course. But haven't you intimated earlier here that to have an opinion on this worth considering, you need to have lived through a given set of circumstances.

I think are mixed up.....I have NEVER intimated that only those of a certain age should have an opinion.....you are mixing me up with the member who's post I am quoting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was watching the news earlier and seen how people were partying over Maggie thatchers death along with burning pictures of her in the street and protesting at her funeral! Am I the only one who thinks that's totally unacceptable, the woman did some things to piss people off but she was no Saddam Husain surely she deserved some dignity"
your spot on ! No respect for the dead . She was a mother and grandmother and a women who made history and yes lots of people had a axe to grind but let her RIP

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

Well put (young man)

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By *ENGUYMan over a year ago

Hull

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

Really good post! "

One other point comes to mind with yesterday's funeral.

What happened to all the posturing by all the radical elements? What happened to all the threats of major disruption by the anarchists, anti-this and anti- that brigades?

Instead, there were a few protestors who lacked the balls to actually do anything!

But, they were vastly outnumbered by not only the tens of thousands of those who did wish to pay their last respects in a dignified fashion but also by the Police and other authorities.

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By *UNCHBOXMan over a year ago

folkestone

"So to all of you that think 10 million is too much, do you know that the vast majority of that was on security? Which without this cost would have cost the country millions more!

Without the police presence in London yesterday there would have been a great deal of trouble and could have resulted in riots like there were 2 years ago, would that have been better?

As you were too young to remember her in power, let me explain what she did to pensioners when she was in power in the early 80's. Upto then the rise in state pension was linked to average earnings, then she changed it to RPI, so pensioners were getting lower rises each year.

My gran was windowed young and had to bring up my dad alone and work 3 jobs, not claiming any benefits, yet when she retired, thatcher's thanks to her and other pensioners who helped the war effort, was to stitch them up - but still managed to find the money for tax cuts/breaks for the very richest in the country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"agree, and most of the protesters werent even born when she was in power

That is what annoyed me the most, they have no idea except what they have been told about her, most of that was biased against her.

Can we agree on a suitable age for people - of whatever political persuasion - to be allowed a valid opinion then?

Any age.....

Many children will have seen the destruction caused to their communities when their fathers and grandfathers couldn't get work for years.....if ever again in many cases.

Of course. But haven't you intimated earlier here that to have an opinion on this worth considering, you need to have lived through a given set of circumstances.

I think are mixed up.....I have NEVER intimated that only those of a certain age should have an opinion.....you are mixing me up with the member who's post I am quoting."

No, not mixed up. I was seeking some clarification, nothing more. If you read back over the thread you'll see that your words could easily be taken in the way I've done.

It's obviously a mistake. We all make them.

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By *UNCHBOXMan over a year ago

folkestone

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

You forgot to mention Thatcher managed to waste the North sea oil revenue. Rather than ringfence it like Norway have(£280 billion) and this is what Tony Benn had proposed as energy minster(she scrapped it when she came to power, she spent it on cutting taxes to win votes, which looks good short term, but what has the country got to show for it now?.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Everyone should RIP.

I'm sorry that people have still strong feeling over her ways; but when so many small mining villages lost so much, and today families still don't speak to each other because 1 family member stood on the picket line and the other went to work; everyone had reasons for doing what they did but effected people and families so badly.

I believe that her funeral should have been keep to family only; death is a private matter.

But what annoys me is 10million spent and costs have not been finalised yet. Wards in hospitals are closing due to lack of money.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

Really good post!

One other point comes to mind with yesterday's funeral.

What happened to all the posturing by all the radical elements? What happened to all the threats of major disruption by the anarchists, anti-this and anti- that brigades?

Instead, there were a few protestors who lacked the balls to actually do anything!

But, they were vastly outnumbered by not only the tens of thousands of those who did wish to pay their last respects in a dignified fashion but also by the Police and other authorities.

Or maybe the 'radicals' aren't the cunts some made them out to be.

people asked for respect in London. she got it. now your moaning about your lack of a chance to be outraged.

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By *lay 4 uMan over a year ago

bolton

Like sheep following each other .if nothing else she had balls and did what she believed was best for this country not like the spineless Blair Traitor

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Like sheep following each other .if nothing else she had balls and did what she believed was best for this country not like the spineless Blair Traitor"

he followed and expanded her idealogy..

in some area's more and much further thn she dared to..

so not sure what you think you mean..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She deserved far less than Clement Attlee got though

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By *bbandflowCouple over a year ago

South Devon

Labour party manifestos have not included the word socialist since 1992..in 1995 clause four was abolished by Labour, dropping commitment to public ownership of industry..New Labour were in power from 1997 to 2010..despite all the huffing and puffing, posturing and wailing at Thatcher's hated policies, none of Thatcher's reforms were reversed in this period.

Those are the cold unpalatable facts for those who continue to hate Thatcher, and are cold unpalatable facts they run from.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Labour party manifestos have not included the word socialist since 1992..in 1995 clause four was abolished by Labour, dropping commitment to public ownership of industry..New Labour were in power from 1997 to 2010..despite all the huffing and puffing, posturing and wailing at Thatcher's hated policies, none of Thatcher's reforms were reversed in this period.

Those are the cold unpalatable facts for those who continue to hate Thatcher, and are cold unpalatable facts they run from. "

tbh i dont think any of these threads have been about Thatchers v 'new' Labours policies..

cant comment on the hate aspect personally..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

Really good post!

One other point comes to mind with yesterday's funeral.

What happened to all the posturing by all the radical elements? What happened to all the threats of major disruption by the anarchists, anti-this and anti- that brigades?

Instead, there were a few protestors who lacked the balls to actually do anything!

But, they were vastly outnumbered by not only the tens of thousands of those who did wish to pay their last respects in a dignified fashion but also by the Police and other authorities.

Or maybe the 'radicals' aren't the cunts some made them out to be.

people asked for respect in London. she got it. now your moaning about your lack of a chance to be outraged."

It was typically English. Very polite. I'm guessing that if someone had really made a fuss, alongside would have been a retired civil servant in favour of proceedings saying 'after you, old boy!'

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By *bbandflowCouple over a year ago

South Devon

Those are the cold unpalatable facts for those who continue to hate Thatcher, and are cold unpalatable facts they run from.

tbh i dont think any of these threads have been about Thatchers v 'new' Labours policies..

cant comment on the hate aspect personally.."

Can't agree..my point wasn't to contrast policies, but asking the question why Thatcher's hated reforms were not reversed by a party who's raison d'etre was to represent the interests of the working class. Thus begging the question why isn't the same amount of vitriol directed at John Smith, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown et al.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Iron lady rust in peace

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What's your opinion of Churchill? "

A stopped clock tells the right time twice a day

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By *wingerdelightCouple over a year ago

eastliegh

"Iron lady rust in peace "

im sorry but that is sick

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Iron lady rust in peace

im sorry but that is sick"

It's a megadeth album

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can't agree..my point wasn't to contrast policies, but asking the question why Thatcher's hated reforms were not reversed by a party who's raison d'etre was to represent the interests of the working class. Thus begging the question why isn't the same amount of vitriol directed at John Smith, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown et al."

I'll be glad to see Blair go. Especially is he's hanged for war crimes. Brown just was a bit pathetic really.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting comments here!

Get a good idea on people's political stance!

For me, it was another day in the week. didn't badmouth the dead, didn't shed a tear. Just went about my day.

As far as the funeral cost, police don't work for free.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Interesting comments here!

Get a good idea on people's political stance!

For me, it was another day in the week. didn't badmouth the dead, didn't shed a tear. Just went about my day.

As far as the funeral cost, police don't work for free."

I sorta see money being spent elsewhere unfortunately..

fancy food

hotels

chauffeuring

etc etc

thats my problem with it, having to be a big fantastic spectacle, not constructive to the economy that they are saying we are in such dire conditions currently is it?

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By *bbandflowCouple over a year ago

South Devon

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over"

Then could you answer the question why wasn't the policies she was 'hated' for reversed by subsequent Labour governments.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did you see the prats who turned their back to the funeral procession. Silly prats - going all that way to the funeral and then turning their back.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over

Then could you answer the question why wasn't the policies she was 'hated' for reversed by subsequent Labour governments.

by the time the eighties was over and privatization was pretty much the norm, fatcats learned they could get cheaper products/service elsewhere...they go on about britain being turned into thisnthat blahblah...it was actually done by itself, the Great British emblem was essentially sold off years ago

and the simple end of that question ebb, is

greed, dressed up in so many ways..

*I have very little interest in politics so if Iam wrong I apologize

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By *bbandflowCouple over a year ago

South Devon

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over

Then could you answer the question why wasn't the policies she was 'hated' for reversed by subsequent Labour governments.

and the simple end of that question ebb, is

greed, dressed up in so many ways..

*I have very little interest in politics so if Iam wrong I apologize"

Really!..well you seem adept, like most politicians, of not answering the question.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over

Then could you answer the question why wasn't the policies she was 'hated' for reversed by subsequent Labour governments.

and the simple end of that question ebb, is

greed, dressed up in so many ways..

*I have very little interest in politics so if Iam wrong I apologize

Really!..well you seem adept, like most politicians, of not answering the question.

because they aren't much different from their fore-bearers...the spin is in getting the election result, promise this and that and then shifting goalposts and getting away with it

pretty hard to reverse something thats been destroyed in the first place

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By *bbandflowCouple over a year ago

South Devon

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over

Then could you answer the question why wasn't the policies she was 'hated' for reversed by subsequent Labour governments.

and the simple end of that question ebb, is

greed, dressed up in so many ways..

*I have very little interest in politics so if Iam wrong I apologize

Really!..well you seem adept, like most politicians, of not answering the question.

because they aren't much different from their fore-bearers...the spin is in getting the election result, promise this and that and then shifting goalposts and getting away with it

pretty hard to reverse something thats been destroyed in the first place"

Think you are getting confused, nationalising and denationalising industry wasn't about spin, it was about the conflict of ideology..the Labour party's constitution was built around Clause 4/..which stated that key industries should be taken into state ownership. Which is precisely what Labour did post war.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well as long as there isnt a national holiday coming next year..its all ok

honestly, I cant agree with anyone who doesnt understand a certain level of hatred towards her and the policies on the whole.

It would be silly to dismiss her for having challenged sexual perceptions of power

the whole saddam,hitler and any other leader comparisons ,well we know they are pretty silly..however , every leader great or not got into power probably through ...well..being a leader

in a week or so everything will die down and we will all have something new to be outraged over

Then could you answer the question why wasn't the policies she was 'hated' for reversed by subsequent Labour governments.

and the simple end of that question ebb, is

greed, dressed up in so many ways..

*I have very little interest in politics so if Iam wrong I apologize

Really!..well you seem adept, like most politicians, of not answering the question.

because they aren't much different from their fore-bearers...the spin is in getting the election result, promise this and that and then shifting goalposts and getting away with it

pretty hard to reverse something thats been destroyed in the first place

well as I say, Ive not much interest or knowledge..but is labour today the same as post war labour? last time they got in, I couldnt see the difference really, maybe a few more smiles...same promises same lies really

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

I'll be glad to see Blair go. Especially is he's hanged for war crimes. Brown just was a bit pathetic really."

I think you will find that before someone can be hanged for war crimes there needs to be a court case, where ideally evidence is presented to support a charge.....neither of which have ever been suggested by the International Courts.

All this crap about 'Illegal Wars' is a bit of a nonsense....any military action that does not have the unanimous backing of the United Nations Permanent Security Council is deemed not to be legally permitted.

Name me One....just One....war since 1945 where the UNSC have voted unanimously to decree as 'legal'.

Some nation always uses it's veto, usually China or Russia....or both of them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Those are the cold unpalatable facts for those who continue to hate Thatcher, and are cold unpalatable facts they run from.

tbh i dont think any of these threads have been about Thatchers v 'new' Labours policies..

cant comment on the hate aspect personally..

Simples. Tony Liar is not a socialist. Cyclops Brown does not have a scooby.

John Smith seemed like a decent fella. Shame he died when he did, I think he had honesty and integrity, which the two cretins who followed him could only dream of.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

I love it when people go on about the closure of the mines! Studied this when at |Uni and managed to find some old reference material id used which sheds light on a few things!

"Including Wales and Scotland togther with England, Britains's coal-fields, sadly, were not profitable. Prior to Thatcher the coal industry was subsidised by the government owning it. The major coal customers eg the power stations were also nationalised and everyone paid a subsidy to the coal industry through their electricity bill. This fed though into prices and the UK was a country with relatively high inflation.

Mining is a dangerous and dirty industry which was artificially kept going as a sort of branch of the social services. I know in the 'romance of coal' all those Welsh miners go off to the pits happily singing but in reality few would have liked their sons to follow them down there. The industry was recognised as having no significant future in the UK.

The correct thing to have done would have been to run down the industry in a controlled way as was done in Europe but Thatcher inherited an industry which was far too big because of over-dependence on coal as a primary fuel for power generation and earlier coal strikes where the NUM had asserted that mines should only close when the last tonne of coal had been extracted. That led to the situation of men travelling miles underground to work seams only a few inches thick - no matter what the price of oil might be there was no way that could be profitable.

Foreign fuel was being purchased by the then CEGB prior to the strikes as an insurance policy in the event of a strike being called. The technolgy of coal transport had advanced since the war and very large bulk carriers could bring bring 50 thousand tonnes plus in a single cargo from any country in the world where steam coal was cheap because of lower cost operations which were really just like quarrying such as Autralia, South Africa and Colombia. While all this was going on gas and oil were at historically low prices and the problem is that burning coal in a clean and efficient way is always more expensive than burning other fuels. The technology for burning coal has not developed very quickly despite the recurrent talk of new technologies on the horizon and there has not really been a huge influx of steam coal into the UK for power generation and cement-making. The other major sort of traded coal - coking coal for steel making - had for a long time been sourced from overseas such as the USA on quality grounds as there is just not enough good quality coking coal left in the UK.

The industry had to be reduced because of its cost which was holding back other areas of the economy but a less confrontational resolution should have been found but of course you had a belligent president of the NUM, Arthur Scargill who wanted to bring class war onto the streets and a prime minister who was determined not to be brushed aside as had been done to her Tory predecessor Edward Heath some years previously."

We have had new labour governments since Thatcher and to the best of my knowledge there has been no attempt to revive any of the closed mines. Coal mining in this country apart from some very specific mines dedicated to power stations is now history.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Obi haive.

A first class post. Well said Sir.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

And for someone who apparently broke the glass ceiling, there are less than 25% of current MPs are women.

But don't worry, I'm only 35 so I can't have an opinion.

I love it when people go on about the closure of the mines! Studied this when at |Uni and managed to find some old reference material id used which sheds light on a few things!

If you used that as reference material, it doesn't say much for your finished work. That is an opinion piece, not a factual reference source.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Obi haive.

A first class post. Well said Sir.

"
A lot of truth in that post ......... there's no getting away from the truth .. no matter how people twist and turn things.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

The reason that coal mines that were closed and abandoned were not reopened by the Labour governments of Blair were that they were left to flood for years since their closure, only a handful were retrievable, it's one thing to close mines for (at the time) financial reasons, it's all together another to allow those mines to flood for years until any possibility of using them again disappears.....out of spitefulness.

Many German coal mines that were closed in the 70's and 80's have since opened again due to national need, they were kept 'live' by maintenance investment for years.

There is also the lack of 'real' investment in jobs in the old mining areas, there was token investment, but not nearly enough to soak up the loss of employment at the time.

Again.....spitefulness.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Obi haive.

A first class post. Well said Sir.

A lot of truth in that post ......... there's no getting away from the truth .. no matter how people twist and turn things.

Forget the miners, is the cotton mill workers I feel sorry for!

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By *ixson-BallsMan over a year ago

Blackpool

"The reason that coal mines that were closed and abandoned were not reopened by the Labour governments of Blair were that they were left to flood for years since their closure, only a handful were retrievable, it's one thing to close mines for (at the time) financial reasons, it's all together another to allow those mines to flood for years until any possibility of using them again disappears.....out of spitefulness.

Many German coal mines that were closed in the 70's and 80's have since opened again due to national need, they were kept 'live' by maintenance investment for years.

There is also the lack of 'real' investment in jobs in the old mining areas, there was token investment, but not nearly enough to soak up the loss of employment at the time.

Again.....spitefulness. "

spitefulness, maybe?...financial maybe?..but who really knows...you don't.

I think you must be the female version of wishy...

you talk as though you have insider knowledge, when all it is, is guesswork, googling, wikipedia or i suspect...a loathing of margaret thatcher

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Many German coal mines that were closed in the 70's and 80's have since opened again due to national need, they were kept 'live' by maintenance investment for years.

There is also the lack of 'real' investment in jobs in the old mining areas, there was token investment, but not nearly enough to soak up the loss of employment at the time.

Again.....spitefulness.

spitefulness, maybe?...financial maybe?..but who really knows...you don't.

I think you must be the female version of wishy...

you talk as though you have insider knowledge, when all it is, is guesswork, googling, wikipedia or i suspect...a loathing of margaret thatcher

And.....a decent education

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Those are the cold unpalatable facts for those who continue to hate Thatcher, and are cold unpalatable facts they run from.

tbh i dont think any of these threads have been about Thatchers v 'new' Labours policies..

cant comment on the hate aspect personally..

am fully in agreement with your point, mine was simply as said that the thread in general had'nt at that point been about Thatchers v Blairs policies..

said before on here, he accelerated her idea's with the free market and in some cases went further..

what riles some on the far left is his refusal to even look at some of the anti trades union legislation she brought in..

interesting issues for Ed or whomever leads them in 2 years..

as for vitriol against Blair oh its there allright, dont think there will be any state funeral for him when it happens..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Many German coal mines that were closed in the 70's and 80's have since opened again due to national need, they were kept 'live' by maintenance investment for years.

There is also the lack of 'real' investment in jobs in the old mining areas, there was token investment, but not nearly enough to soak up the loss of employment at the time.

Again.....spitefulness.

spitefulness, maybe?...financial maybe?..but who really knows...you don't.

I think you must be the female version of wishy...

you talk as though you have insider knowledge, when all it is, is guesswork, googling, wikipedia or i suspect...a loathing of margaret thatcher

And.....a decent education

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Many German coal mines that were closed in the 70's and 80's have since opened again due to national need, they were kept 'live' by maintenance investment for years.

There is also the lack of 'real' investment in jobs in the old mining areas, there was token investment, but not nearly enough to soak up the loss of employment at the time.

Again.....spitefulness.

spitefulness, maybe?...financial maybe?..but who really knows...you don't.

I think you must be the female version of wishy...

you talk as though you have insider knowledge, when all it is, is guesswork, googling, wikipedia or i suspect...a loathing of margaret thatcher

And.....a decent education

Exactly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sadly, some people do not have any intelligence or dignity. Colethorpe proved that.

I had more respect for the silent protesters who just turned their backs on as the coffin passed."

I did not watch it, but that actually is a far more powerful statement to my minf that whooping and hollaring and burning efigies and dancing about like idiots.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well she's dead now and she's had a good send off no matter if she deserved it or not it's done with, no they no point in saying what she's done or ain't done, it's getting abit boring now, don't you think?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Well she's dead now and she's had a good send off no matter if she deserved it or not it's done with, no they no point in saying what she's done or ain't done, it's getting abit boring now, don't you think?

If it bores you....why not ignore any discussions on it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

An excellent post !

One that really does show an educated an eloquent person

No spite bile or lack of fact .

A pleasure to read no matter what your political view .

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

An excellent post !

One that really does show an educated an eloquent person

No spite bile or lack of fact .

A pleasure to read no matter what your political view ."

I will second that.

Just one other point though.

The myth about Germany maintaining it's mines for possible re-opening has been doing the rounds for years. While they did mothball a handfull the vast majority were closed permanently, including the 3 in the town where we live. One of which was the deepest in Europe.

I'll give a brownie point to anyone who can tell us the name of our town.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

An excellent post !

One that really does show an educated an eloquent person

No spite bile or lack of fact .

A pleasure to read no matter what your political view .

I will second that.

Just one other point though.

I'll give a brownie point to anyone who can tell us the name of our town.

Blackpool?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

An excellent post !

One that really does show an educated an eloquent person

No spite bile or lack of fact .

A pleasure to read no matter what your political view .

I will second that.

Just one other point though.

I'll give a brownie point to anyone who can tell us the name of our town.

Fair point, I think they started to wind down when the government subsidies ended didn't they?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just one other point though.

I'll give a brownie point to anyone who can tell us the name of our town.

Chemnitz?

Germany still subsidises its coal mining and will do for another 5 years.

Germany is pretty dependant on coal for its electricity, as the shut down their nuclear stations after Fukishima. Their coal powered stations are more advanced than ours, as a lot of them use Carbon Capture better than we do. What will be interesting is how their electric prices will spike when the coal subsidies stop.

All in all it is still a dirty fuel.

Referring to a few posts back about miners not wanting their sons to follow them down the pits, I can understand this. My grandfather was from a small mining village in South Wales, he worked down the mines as a youngster and had lung problems all his life. His father and grandfather were both miners and died to illnesses relating to their jobs. My grandad moved from Wales during the war and never went back after his service in the Navy. He moved to London and started a new life for himself and my nan as the village was dying as the mines dried up, even back then.

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By *ibobbiMan over a year ago

north lanarkshire

she was an evil bastard if you seen the devastation she done in scotland believe me she deserved a lot more i watched her funeral twice just to make sure the witch was dead

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Thatcher changed that.

Even self righteous working class heroes like Neil Kinnock succumbed, his parents bought there council house. Before Thatcher that was an impossible dream.

An excellent post !

One that really does show an educated an eloquent person

No spite bile or lack of fact .

A pleasure to read no matter what your political view ."

A pleasure to read if you are ignorant of actual facts, I would imagine. If you have any knowledge of UK economic history, the paucity of fact is quite apparent. It actually reads as a paen to Thatcher that ignores her critically disastrous handling of, to name but two, North Sea oil revenues and the UK housing market.

So the poster is either ignorant of these things, or chooses not to acknowledge them. Either way, a pleasure to read it is not.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"What happened to all the posturing by all the radical elements? What happened to all the threats of major disruption by the anarchists, anti-this and anti- that brigades?

Instead, there were a few protestors who lacked the balls to actually do anything!

But, they were vastly outnumbered by not only the tens of thousands of those who did wish to pay their last respects in a dignified fashion but also by the Police and other authorities.

Tens of thousands? There was barely anybody paying their 'respects' beyond the immediate area of the service, despite the attempt to use a funeral service as a political rally by the Conservative party. In most places, the route was lucky if it was one deep!

More active demonstrators were more likely wisely avoiding being arrested for exercising their democratic right to protest...or like many, had been illegally detained in advance of the funeral because the police suspected they would demonstrate.

It's Funny how for all Margaret Thatcher seemed to represent a force for 'freedom' to her acolytes, the freedom to protest doesn't seem to be one they are that much bothered about.

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