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Shoplifting is there a solution does anybody give a toss?
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A friend works in a busy retail store (not a supermarket). I’d love to name & shame the retailer & even go to the press but my friend doesn’t want to make a fuss. The shop in question doesn’t have security guards (they used to but cost cutting means they’ve gone).
On a daily basis they are plagued with shoplifters mostly drug addicts, but there’s also organised criminals stealing larger items to order. Sadly I know what they’re experiencing isn’t uncommon & happens everywhere but it’s almost like it’s acceptable, the criminals are getting away with it more & know if it’s less than £200 nothing will be done.
With these big company’s & bosses in their big glass offices, they’re almost oblivious as long as the store is making money. It doesn’t matter that the staff are abused daily verbally & physically with regular occurrences of glass coffee jars & alcohol being used as weapons, so much so they’re scared of going to work, with the last violent incident even the police failed to attend when the panic alarm was activated.
What’s it going to take for retailers who pay a pittance to their staff to wake up & smell the coffee that’s being pinched or thrown at their staff to realise this can’t continue? If I was a manager in one of these shops I think I’d ask all my staff to go on strike , how many days would the company let a store close before re employing security guards? This doesn’t solve all problems but it helps.
Rant over sorry. |
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Everyone deserves to work in a safe environment regardless of what they do.
You do see some security guards in stores, maybe one at the entry/exit.
A lot of stores used to employ undercover shoppers who the staff didn’t know who they were to catch shoplifters.
If anyone was stealing, as much as I disagree with it, if I worked there I’d let them crack on. Why risk my life or being injured for a jar of coffee?
I am not sure if there is a union and maybe if there is then this is time they earned their money representing the workers to the bosses |
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I've seen companies get rid of all security staff and put that job on the staff members then thefts really increased, instooped getting involved at that point back then, insurance handled it all they say, stores are gonna be shut down now using that excuse |
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Those security gates where you cant leave without a receipt is one option.
Ruins it for folk just browsing though.
Career criminality really is scummy.
Sorry your friend is experiencing this OP its not worth the risk to safety. |
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The big stores and the police brought it upon themselves and, sadly, upon smaller stores too.
Does anyone else remember when several of the big chains released statements saying they won’t prosecute shoplifters below £40.
Then the police released a statement saying they won’t investigate thefts before £150 and went out of the way to specify that this included shoplifting.
Since then I’ve noticed shoplifting go through the roof. It’s really sad and I have no idea why companies and police did that. I think they were trying to seem compassionate? It was just stupid. |
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"If I see someone liberate some food, I'll turn a blind eye. If it's taking stuff to sell on, different story.
Too many struggling to feed families, but for gain... nah."
How can you tell which is which? Do you quiz them? |
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This comes down to money.
If staff are being paid a pittance, then they need to be paid more.
If people are stealing food. Then they are likely struggling with a cost of living crisis.
In a lot of cases, if someone is a drug addict, something has gone badly wrong in their life and they need help.
And if people have enough, in a lot of cases there wouldn't be a market for for the gangs to sell to.
Really sorry for your friend. No-one should be afraid of their job |
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"This comes down to money.
If staff are being paid a pittance, then they need to be paid more.
If people are stealing food. Then they are likely struggling with a cost of living crisis.
In a lot of cases, if someone is a drug addict, something has gone badly wrong in their life and they need help.
And if people have enough, in a lot of cases there wouldn't be a market for for the gangs to sell to.
Really sorry for your friend. No-one should be afraid of their job"
This is a very naive outlook. The majority of thefts are not food to feed themselves. Hardly anybody is stealing because of “cost of living”.
In relations to Drug addicts - they usually have access to homes, food, drink and shelter. So again, stealing to sell. Yeah they need help, and it’s easy for them to get in inner city areas. Also addiction is no excuse to steal.
Then small item theft is just pointless theft by people who don’t want to pay because they’re scrotes. The type of people who put a bottle of wine or some snacks down their jacket and then run and get pissed or share it with mates.
Other thefts such as cigarettes, alcohol etc are by pure criminals who, again, are stealing to sell. These lot can be very violent too. In my city there’s a gang that raided Tesco, co-op and Sainsbury’s with machetes, every weekend for three weeks. They still haven’t been caught.
It really irks me when people make excuses that are wildly out of touch with reality. It’s the reason why crime is so bad. (Nothing personal).
Tbh everyone should be more angry about it because it’s us that are paying the price, in more ways than one. |
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By *obajxMan 9 weeks ago
Cheshire |
"Those security gates where you cant leave without a receipt is one option.
Ruins it for folk just browsing though.
Career criminality really is scummy.
Sorry your friend is experiencing this OP its not worth the risk to safety. "
A friend had a huge row in Sainsbury as he couldn't exit through those gates
They said he hadn't paid, yet he had.
They told him he had to produce his receipt to exit and he told them, and he was correct, the self checkout asked if he wanted a receipt and he declined
He then said "if I need to show a receipt, I shouldn't be given an option if I want one or not" |
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The bottom line is there is no deterrent or punishment that works, otherwise there wouldn’t be do many repeat offenders. This applies to all crimes, not just shoplifting.
Thought one of the governments pledges was to deal harshly with SL’s, thst was before they got elected, not heard anything since.
I’ve just heard my friend is going to get a disciplinary for using their initiative to try & identify a group of SL’s which is absolutely disgusting, as you can imagine my blood is boiling.
They could fight the disciplinary but even if they win, it’s not going to change the job that they love but also fills them with fear every time they go in, so rather than face the music it’s cheerio.
An exemplary employee lost, only to be replaced by another mug, what a very sad society we’re forced to live in. Yet another example of the minority spoiiing it for the majority & victory once more for the crininals.
On a more positive note their psrtner is elated at the prospect of them quitting, they too are scared one day the shop worker (not Army or similar) will be seriously injured or worse doesn’t come home.
Thanks for listening, I know it won’t get the answers I want or change the situation but honestly I can’t believe what I’m writing is true. |
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Going back many years ago I used to work security for a major supermarket chain, shoplifting was prevalent then, management didn't want anything done about it.
We also live in a world where you touch someone and they cry assault and most security companies will hang someone out rather than support their staff.
The police are underfunded, understaffed and are under the same threat. We live in a world which has gone utterly soft which has given a rise to criminals with "rights" |
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"This is a very naive outlook."
Except, I'm married to someone who actively worked in probation and prisons for over a decade and I used to work with Crime Reduction Initiatives.
"The majority of thefts are not food to feed themselves. Hardly anybody is stealing because of “cost of living”."
I'm sure you can cite a source on that claim. 
"In relations to Drug addicts - they usually have access to homes, food, drink and shelter. So again, stealing to sell. Yeah they need help, and it’s easy for them to get in inner city areas. Also addiction is no excuse to steal."
While I can understand the attraction of the, "They're all scrotes. Bang 'em up. Hanging too good's for 'em" philosophy it doesn't work.
Please forgive the assumption, but I'm guessing you don't know or have worked with many recovering addicts.
To help put this in some context. Kids coming through care or with zero qualifications get dumped out on society with no prospects or hope. They can't look after themselves, they were never taught how. Even if they are on benefits, they covers remarkably little if you're disciplined, it covers sod all if you're not. This, plus childhood trauma tends to lead to mental health issues. Accessing mental healthcare in the UK is a bloody nightmare. So people often use drink and drugs to self-medicate.
Funnily enough this tends to happen to a lot of former veterans. Suddenly having no-one telling them what to do, having to wash their own clothes, sort their own meals etc. they fall to pieces and make up a large proportion of the UK's homeless. Usually with drug and alcohol problems.
Put them into prison, which entrenches the issues and a sections of society that don't believe these people deserve rights and can't be trusted provides no hope and no motivation to behave better.
And the cycle continues.
Same with corporal punishment.
Slapping someone about doesn't make them behave better it just makes them not want to get caught.
Which is why education is so important
Why access to social care & mental health care is important
Why rehabilitation is important
Why a decent social safety net is so important
Why after school programs are important
Why the sheer number of people having to use foodbank is a disgrace
Then small item theft is just pointless theft by people who don’t want to pay because they’re scrotes. The type of people who put a bottle of wine or some snacks down their jacket and then run and get pissed or share it with mates.
"It really irks me when people make excuses that are wildly out of touch with reality. It’s the reason why crime is so bad. (Nothing personal)."
Actually, I'd like to see massive press and media reform so rags like the Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Express, TalkTV, Talk Radio etc. were forced to be far more honest in their coverage rather than being genuinely misleading about things and stop them from being incredibly divisive just to earn a few quid or push the prejudices of a few rich idiots.
We know the draconian method os popular but it doesn't work. We know this by looking at the US. They've got the largest prison population in the world, the death penalty, will put custodial sentences on just about everything.
By comparison, if you look at the Scandinavian Model society ends up a lot better off.
But it involves investing in society and people.
In solving the underlying issues rather than treating symptoms.
But that costs money and takes time. Where people prefer to hear about numbers of coppers and nice easy statistics about arrests and convictions.
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"This is a very naive outlook.
Except, I'm married to someone who actively worked in probation and prisons for over a decade and I used to work with Crime Reduction Initiatives.
The majority of thefts are not food to feed themselves. Hardly anybody is stealing because of “cost of living”.
I'm sure you can cite a source on that claim.
In relations to Drug addicts - they usually have access to homes, food, drink and shelter. So again, stealing to sell. Yeah they need help, and it’s easy for them to get in inner city areas. Also addiction is no excuse to steal.
While I can understand the attraction of the, "They're all scrotes. Bang 'em up. Hanging too good's for 'em" philosophy it doesn't work.
Please forgive the assumption, but I'm guessing you don't know or have worked with many recovering addicts.
To help put this in some context. Kids coming through care or with zero qualifications get dumped out on society with no prospects or hope. They can't look after themselves, they were never taught how. Even if they are on benefits, they covers remarkably little if you're disciplined, it covers sod all if you're not. This, plus childhood trauma tends to lead to mental health issues. Accessing mental healthcare in the UK is a bloody nightmare. So people often use drink and drugs to self-medicate.
Funnily enough this tends to happen to a lot of former veterans. Suddenly having no-one telling them what to do, having to wash their own clothes, sort their own meals etc. they fall to pieces and make up a large proportion of the UK's homeless. Usually with drug and alcohol problems.
Put them into prison, which entrenches the issues and a sections of society that don't believe these people deserve rights and can't be trusted provides no hope and no motivation to behave better.
And the cycle continues.
Same with corporal punishment.
Slapping someone about doesn't make them behave better it just makes them not want to get caught.
Which is why education is so important
Why access to social care & mental health care is important
Why rehabilitation is important
Why a decent social safety net is so important
Why after school programs are important
Why the sheer number of people having to use foodbank is a disgrace
Then small item theft is just pointless theft by people who don’t want to pay because they’re scrotes. The type of people who put a bottle of wine or some snacks down their jacket and then run and get pissed or share it with mates.
It really irks me when people make excuses that are wildly out of touch with reality. It’s the reason why crime is so bad. (Nothing personal).
Actually, I'd like to see massive press and media reform so rags like the Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Express, TalkTV, Talk Radio etc. were forced to be far more honest in their coverage rather than being genuinely misleading about things and stop them from being incredibly divisive just to earn a few quid or push the prejudices of a few rich idiots.
We know the draconian method os popular but it doesn't work. We know this by looking at the US. They've got the largest prison population in the world, the death penalty, will put custodial sentences on just about everything.
By comparison, if you look at the Scandinavian Model society ends up a lot better off.
But it involves investing in society and people.
In solving the underlying issues rather than treating symptoms.
But that costs money and takes time. Where people prefer to hear about numbers of coppers and nice easy statistics about arrests and convictions.
"
Being married to a probation officer doesn’t make you any less naive. The probation service isn’t even good in this country. 68% of offenders reoffend within 2 years (and that’s just those who are caught). So clearly it doesn’t work and the approach is wrong.
Look at a country like Japan. Harsh consequences for crime - both socially and legally. And it’s the safest country in the world with the lowest crime rate.
It’s nothing to do with “treat the symptoms” and all that crap. It’s to do with deterring people from crime by making sure people and their families know that m lives will be ruined if they partake in crime. Similarly look at New York in the 80’s compared to how they cleaned it up. That was the exact same thing - punish people for every crime. Even fare evasion. That reduced all crime by 90%.
This country is way too soft and nobody should be going out of their way to try and justify criminality
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GF works in a Marks and Spencer food store on a retail park
Every day without fail guys come in with the large bags, take all the steak, chicken etc and just walk out. the ladies always tell them to stop but obviously they just get ignored or told to fuck off.
The guys just simply go and sell them door to door on the estate across - walking past a police station as they do.
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"If I see someone liberate some food, I'll turn a blind eye. If it's taking stuff to sell on, different story.
Too many struggling to feed families, but for gain... nah.
How can you tell which is which? Do you quiz them?"
Fairly simple. The ones who are likely to go hawking the stuff just down the road from where they have st*len it from nearly all have a cloned appearance.
Weasely, scrawny, shifty looking drug addicts. It is usually written all over their appearance and demeanour.
The other group, stealing for their own consumption are probably harder to spot in the store and they have to be combatted by vigilant till, aisle and security staff, if there is a will to do so.
I have no objection to casual or even routine bag and trolley checks at the beginning of the checkout sequence.
Secreting about the person is harder to deal with.
Who is to say which represents the larger group if the smarter ones don't show out at the time? |
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"Being married to a probation officer doesn’t make you any less naive. The probation service isn’t even good in this country. 68% of offenders reoffend within 2 years (and that’s just those who are caught). So clearly it doesn’t work and the approach is wrong."
Didn't say probation officer.
The difference between thee and me is I to make sure that my opinions are evidence driven.
I asked you to provide evidence for your claims. You didn't.
I actively explained the reoffending cycle.
Your opinion is harsher sentences. Which, doesn't work.
"Look at a country like Japan. Harsh consequences for crime - both socially and legally. And it’s the safest country in the world with the lowest crime rate."
Actually it's not.
https://tinyurl.com/ca84k2w7
If you look at the top 5 here, most of them are Scandinavian.
What they all have in common are stable governments, a very good standard of education, a high standard of living, excellent healthcare and a population with a strong tradition of obeying the law.
Same is also true in Japan.
Where for decades the Yakusa mostly earned by being actively involved in legitimate business.
Also, Japan has a HUGE problem with stimulant addiction which is driven by the social pressures around getting into a good school, getting a good job and working long hours.
"It’s nothing to do with “treat the symptoms” and all that crap. "
Global evidence says you're wrong. Unlike you, I can actually both cite this evidence and have direct experience of it.
You mention Giuliani's efforts to clean up New York. It didn't actually fix anything, it just tended to move the problem around. It didn't create a 90% drop in crime. In some areas of New York yes, but as a whole. No.
Research shoes that while crime did go down during Giuliani's tenure, massive contributing factors were a sizable economic boom and 25% in the unemployment rate.
Yes, increasingly the police dept 35% helps detection and increases arrests.
But people with hope, prospects, money etc. actively commit less crime in the first place.
https://tinyurl.com/4939vfpw
Similarly the reason why we now have Speed Awareness courses is because straight points, fines and cameras didn't work.
By educating people about why speed restrictions are in place, and the system being seen as less punitive and stigmatising saw people reduce their speed and obey they law.
Rather than just leathering it and slamming on the breaks every time they see a camera.
Never actually justified criminality. Just pointed out the importance of understanding wider social contexts and that simply having more police & harsher sentences doesn't actually reduce crime.
You keep calling me naive.
However, only one of us has shown clear experience of dealing with the actual statistics and evidence.
And has provided such evidence.
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"Oh and there are other people who noted that Zero Tolerance Policing doesn't work.
The College of Policing 
https://www.college.police.uk/research/crime-reduction-toolkit/zero-tolerance-policing"
You suggest a complete shift in approach but accept the society you'd prefer is a long way off....
So what do you suggest happen before the massive shift in society is achieved?
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"Oh and there are other people who noted that Zero Tolerance Policing doesn't work.
The College of Policing
https://www.college.police.uk/research/crime-reduction-toolkit/zero-tolerance-policing"
Except it does work as proven multiple times in real life. Not in a hypothetical research situation |
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Of course it wrong - theft is a crime prices in shops take theft into account
We pay for this subsidy to take theft into account
here in its approx £200 and less to ignore prosecution however it does not take into account multiple of £200 !!!
I feel for the staff they are not paid to tackle robbers
The last government made the crime reporting figures lower by not picking up in low value crime
Which was to justify vote winning
Theft is theft no
Matter how you dice it
It’s wrong
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Staff have every right to ignore the issue of theft, as their safety is much more important. If you look at the vast multiples of earnings of the CEO, versus floor staff wages, it's clear that staff are not cared for and paid fairly. Staff understaffing is a major issue and they are expected to be stressed and dealt with it. I'd ignore thieves and let them off |
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I think that the best plan is to adopt the “if you can’t beat em, join em” approach. Then instead of passing the shrinkage cost on to the honest shoppers, everyone has free steak. I wonder how long the retailer would stand that ? |
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"The bottom line is there is no deterrent or punishment that works, otherwise there wouldn’t be do many repeat offenders. This applies to all crimes, not just shoplifting.
Thought one of the governments pledges was to deal harshly with SL’s, thst was before they got elected, not heard anything since.
I’ve just heard my friend is going to get a disciplinary for using their initiative to try & identify a group of SL’s which is absolutely disgusting, as you can imagine my blood is boiling.
They could fight the disciplinary but even if they win, it’s not going to change the job that they love but also fills them with fear every time they go in, so rather than face the music it’s cheerio.
An exemplary employee lost, only to be replaced by another mug, what a very sad society we’re forced to live in. Yet another example of the minority spoiiing it for the majority & victory once more for the crininals.
On a more positive note their psrtner is elated at the prospect of them quitting, they too are scared one day the shop worker (not Army or similar) will be seriously injured or worse doesn’t come home.
Thanks for listening, I know it won’t get the answers I want or change the situation but honestly I can’t believe what I’m writing is true. "
The store management and upper management do not back up the staff, a customer threatened to stab a member of staff the customer had one of his hands in his pocket while advancing on the member of staff, staff member had nowhere to go so punched the customer. Management told him he must never punch customers because it looks bad on the store and disciplined him. |
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"The bottom line is there is no deterrent or punishment that works, otherwise there wouldn’t be do many repeat offenders. This applies to all crimes, not just shoplifting.
Thought one of the governments pledges was to deal harshly with SL’s, thst was before they got elected, not heard anything since.
I’ve just heard my friend is going to get a disciplinary for using their initiative to try & identify a group of SL’s which is absolutely disgusting, as you can imagine my blood is boiling.
They could fight the disciplinary but even if they win, it’s not going to change the job that they love but also fills them with fear every time they go in, so rather than face the music it’s cheerio.
An exemplary employee lost, only to be replaced by another mug, what a very sad society we’re forced to live in. Yet another example of the minority spoiiing it for the majority & victory once more for the crininals.
On a more positive note their psrtner is elated at the prospect of them quitting, they too are scared one day the shop worker (not Army or similar) will be seriously injured or worse doesn’t come home.
Thanks for listening, I know it won’t get the answers I want or change the situation but honestly I can’t believe what I’m writing is true.
The store management and upper management do not back up the staff, a customer threatened to stab a member of staff the customer had one of his hands in his pocket while advancing on the member of staff, staff member had nowhere to go so punched the customer. Management told him he must never punch customers because it looks bad on the store and disciplined him. "
Punch the manager instead? |
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My bro quit working for a big name budget supermarket chain partly because of all the shoplifting and the lack of support and intervention from higher management. My bro is a big guy and the assumption from regional managers was he should and could effectively intimidate shoplifters into dropping their haul and thus he was criticised and picked on if shoplifting occured. The store did not pay for security guards at that time and shoplifting was a daily occurrence. It was NOT people stealing to feed their hungry children. Major items stølen were alcohol, large pots of coffee, laundry items, things from the middle aisle and large joints of meat or high quality steak. These items would then be rapidly sold in local hostelrys and alleys and the money spent on drugs and alcohol mainly.
My brother's physical size was used as a tool to pick on him with regards the rate of shoplifting. Other staff who were not "big guys" did not have the same pressure put on them to tackle shoplifting.
It's a massive issue, it's a huge danger to staff and it needs tackling by all concerned - the retailers and the police and local authorities. I also wonder about the pubs and why they turn a blind eye to the blatant selling of stølen goods on the premises. |
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You've kind of answered it yourself. People don't have the backbone to take industrial action anymore. Instead we rely on the government to represent our interests.
And the protections that would make it possible for people take industrial action e.g job security, temporary workforces etc have been eroded during that time.
And there's there's the wealth inequality and poverty that propagate crime and substance misuse. So it's a double edge sword.
And those in their ivory towers, as you say, couldn't care less, it doesn't effect them.
So looking at that picture, who do the government really represent and what needs to change?
Do we think the first people to go on strike, had the legal right to do so? Nope they got hung, imprisoned or transported to Australia. |
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By *udosMan 9 weeks ago
hull |
"This is a very naive outlook.
Except, I'm married to someone who actively worked in probation and prisons for over a decade and I used to work with Crime Reduction Initiatives.
The majority of thefts are not food to feed themselves. Hardly anybody is stealing because of “cost of living”.
I'm sure you can cite a source on that claim.
In relations to Drug addicts - they usually have access to homes, food, drink and shelter. So again, stealing to sell. Yeah they need help, and it’s easy for them to get in inner city areas. Also addiction is no excuse to steal.
While I can understand the attraction of the, "They're all scrotes. Bang 'em up. Hanging too good's for 'em" philosophy it doesn't work.
Please forgive the assumption, but I'm guessing you don't know or have worked with many recovering addicts.
To help put this in some context. Kids coming through care or with zero qualifications get dumped out on society with no prospects or hope. They can't look after themselves, they were never taught how. Even if they are on benefits, they covers remarkably little if you're disciplined, it covers sod all if you're not. This, plus childhood trauma tends to lead to mental health issues. Accessing mental healthcare in the UK is a bloody nightmare. So people often use drink and drugs to self-medicate.
Funnily enough this tends to happen to a lot of former veterans. Suddenly having no-one telling them what to do, having to wash their own clothes, sort their own meals etc. they fall to pieces and make up a large proportion of the UK's homeless. Usually with drug and alcohol problems.
Put them into prison, which entrenches the issues and a sections of society that don't believe these people deserve rights and can't be trusted provides no hope and no motivation to behave better.
And the cycle continues.
Same with corporal punishment.
Slapping someone about doesn't make them behave better it just makes them not want to get caught.
Which is why education is so important
Why access to social care & mental health care is important
Why rehabilitation is important
Why a decent social safety net is so important
Why after school programs are important
Why the sheer number of people having to use foodbank is a disgrace
Then small item theft is just pointless theft by people who don’t want to pay because they’re scrotes. The type of people who put a bottle of wine or some snacks down their jacket and then run and get pissed or share it with mates.
It really irks me when people make excuses that are wildly out of touch with reality. It’s the reason why crime is so bad. (Nothing personal).
Actually, I'd like to see massive press and media reform so rags like the Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Express, TalkTV, Talk Radio etc. were forced to be far more honest in their coverage rather than being genuinely misleading about things and stop them from being incredibly divisive just to earn a few quid or push the prejudices of a few rich idiots.
We know the draconian method os popular but it doesn't work. We know this by looking at the US. They've got the largest prison population in the world, the death penalty, will put custodial sentences on just about everything.
By comparison, if you look at the Scandinavian Model society ends up a lot better off.
But it involves investing in society and people.
In solving the underlying issues rather than treating symptoms.
But that costs money and takes time. Where people prefer to hear about numbers of coppers and nice easy statistics about arrests and convictions.
Being married to a probation officer doesn’t make you any less naive. The probation service isn’t even good in this country. 68% of offenders reoffend within 2 years (and that’s just those who are caught). So clearly it doesn’t work and the approach is wrong.
Look at a country like Japan. Harsh consequences for crime - both socially and legally. And it’s the safest country in the world with the lowest crime rate.
It’s nothing to do with “treat the symptoms” and all that crap. It’s to do with deterring people from crime by making sure people and their families know that m lives will be ruined if they partake in crime. Similarly look at New York in the 80’s compared to how they cleaned it up. That was the exact same thing - punish people for every crime. Even fare evasion. That reduced all crime by 90%.
This country is way too soft and nobody should be going out of their way to try and justify criminality
"
Absolutely correct and I agree 100%.
Well said. This country needs a big shake up and much tougher consequences for any crime committed |
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"This is a very naive outlook.
Except, I'm married to someone who actively worked in probation and prisons for over a decade and I used to work with Crime Reduction Initiatives.
The majority of thefts are not food to feed themselves. Hardly anybody is stealing because of “cost of living”.
I'm sure you can cite a source on that claim.
In relations to Drug addicts - they usually have access to homes, food, drink and shelter. So again, stealing to sell. Yeah they need help, and it’s easy for them to get in inner city areas. Also addiction is no excuse to steal.
While I can understand the attraction of the, "They're all scrotes. Bang 'em up. Hanging too good's for 'em" philosophy it doesn't work.
Please forgive the assumption, but I'm guessing you don't know or have worked with many recovering addicts.
To help put this in some context. Kids coming through care or with zero qualifications get dumped out on society with no prospects or hope. They can't look after themselves, they were never taught how. Even if they are on benefits, they covers remarkably little if you're disciplined, it covers sod all if you're not. This, plus childhood trauma tends to lead to mental health issues. Accessing mental healthcare in the UK is a bloody nightmare. So people often use drink and drugs to self-medicate.
Funnily enough this tends to happen to a lot of former veterans. Suddenly having no-one telling them what to do, having to wash their own clothes, sort their own meals etc. they fall to pieces and make up a large proportion of the UK's homeless. Usually with drug and alcohol problems.
Put them into prison, which entrenches the issues and a sections of society that don't believe these people deserve rights and can't be trusted provides no hope and no motivation to behave better.
And the cycle continues.
Same with corporal punishment.
Slapping someone about doesn't make them behave better it just makes them not want to get caught.
Which is why education is so important
Why access to social care & mental health care is important
Why rehabilitation is important
Why a decent social safety net is so important
Why after school programs are important
Why the sheer number of people having to use foodbank is a disgrace
Then small item theft is just pointless theft by people who don’t want to pay because they’re scrotes. The type of people who put a bottle of wine or some snacks down their jacket and then run and get pissed or share it with mates.
It really irks me when people make excuses that are wildly out of touch with reality. It’s the reason why crime is so bad. (Nothing personal).
Actually, I'd like to see massive press and media reform so rags like the Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Express, TalkTV, Talk Radio etc. were forced to be far more honest in their coverage rather than being genuinely misleading about things and stop them from being incredibly divisive just to earn a few quid or push the prejudices of a few rich idiots.
We know the draconian method os popular but it doesn't work. We know this by looking at the US. They've got the largest prison population in the world, the death penalty, will put custodial sentences on just about everything.
By comparison, if you look at the Scandinavian Model society ends up a lot better off.
But it involves investing in society and people.
In solving the underlying issues rather than treating symptoms.
But that costs money and takes time. Where people prefer to hear about numbers of coppers and nice easy statistics about arrests and convictions.
Being married to a probation officer doesn’t make you any less naive. The probation service isn’t even good in this country. 68% of offenders reoffend within 2 years (and that’s just those who are caught). So clearly it doesn’t work and the approach is wrong.
Look at a country like Japan. Harsh consequences for crime - both socially and legally. And it’s the safest country in the world with the lowest crime rate.
It’s nothing to do with “treat the symptoms” and all that crap. It’s to do with deterring people from crime by making sure people and their families know that m lives will be ruined if they partake in crime. Similarly look at New York in the 80’s compared to how they cleaned it up. That was the exact same thing - punish people for every crime. Even fare evasion. That reduced all crime by 90%.
This country is way too soft and nobody should be going out of their way to try and justify criminality
Absolutely correct and I agree 100%.
Well said. This country needs a big shake up and much tougher consequences for any crime committed "
This is what happens when the government focuses on easy targets such as motorists or Facebook villains at the expense of real crime and criminals. |
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This is what happens when the government focuses on easy targets such as motorists or Facebook villains at the expense of real crime and criminals. "
Motor crime is real. You'd have a different view if a family member had been killed on a pedestrian crossing by a d*unk driver, I think. Motor cars are lethal weapons if operated incorrectly/by morons. |
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This is what happens when the government focuses on easy targets such as motorists or Facebook villains at the expense of real crime and criminals.
Motor crime is real. You'd have a different view if a family member had been killed on a pedestrian crossing by a d*unk driver, I think. Motor cars are lethal weapons if operated incorrectly/by morons. "
Yes, I run in terror from a car with no tax on it, yet are happy to ignore some idiot on Facebook.
C’mon, less whataboutery. |
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By *8on33Man 9 weeks ago
winfrith |
Your view is changed by circumstance if it hasn't happened to you then it hasn't happened to you ,a lot of shop theft is done to order either they need it or are selling it to someone who needs it ,suppose they figure these companies can afford a margin of loss but I'd say they don't give a toss ,its life and when you consider the wealthy people of this world with $200 billion dollars life just isn't fair ,worry about your one life and forget those that choose to do what they do . |
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By (user no longer on site) 9 weeks ago
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It's existed since shops where created. I love going into my local Tesco Express and have the staff unlock the box that the bag of persil washing machine tablets are in, or unlock the wire clamp holding the anti theft device on the nescafe coffee jar |
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By *8on33Man 9 weeks ago
winfrith |
"It's existed since shops where created. I love going into my local Tesco Express and have the staff unlock the box that the bag of persil washing machine tablets are in, or unlock the wire clamp holding the anti theft device on the nescafe coffee jar"
really wow none of that down my way .
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The company's need to stop prosecuting the employees for trying to protect the business. 99% have a complete hands off approach to shoplifting and retail theft. If I didn't have to worry about getting fired, I'd go out in the lot when the perp was leaving and beat the ever loving $h!t out of them and then take the product back in and put it on the shelf.  |
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Our local co-op guy's just walk in pick up crates of booze and walk out,staff are pretty much helpless to do anything,they did briefly employ a security guard but he spent more time on his phone than actually watching anyone. |
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Even if they prosecute them, the law is a joke. My uncle used to run a shop, he caught a shop lifter stealing coffee jars. Went to court to prosecute, the judge gave them a £50 fine and sent them home. Totally pointless waste of time. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 9 weeks ago
Burley |
"The company's need to stop prosecuting the employees for trying to protect the business. 99% have a complete hands off approach to shoplifting and retail theft. If I didn't have to worry about getting fired, I'd go out in the lot when the perp was leaving and beat the ever loving $h!t out of them and then take the product back in and put it on the shelf. "
And then you'd run the risk of being stabbed, beaten up by someone bigger and stronger than you, or you could be prosecuted for assault. Is that really worth a few pounds of a multi-million pound corporation's takings? |
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"The company's need to stop prosecuting the employees for trying to protect the business. 99% have a complete hands off approach to shoplifting and retail theft. If I didn't have to worry about getting fired, I'd go out in the lot when the perp was leaving and beat the ever loving $h!t out of them and then take the product back in and put it on the shelf.
And then you'd run the risk of being stabbed, beaten up by someone bigger and stronger than you, or you could be prosecuted for assault. Is that really worth a few pounds of a multi-million pound corporation's takings?"
Not all shops are multi million pound corporations.
But beating people up is not the answer. |
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This is what happens when the government focuses on easy targets such as motorists or Facebook villains at the expense of real crime and criminals.
Motor crime is real. You'd have a different view if a family member had been killed on a pedestrian crossing by a d*unk driver, I think. Motor cars are lethal weapons if operated incorrectly/by morons. "
Exactly, that's why we should legalise guns.
Let's see how far they get away with my dreamcatchers and cleansing crystals, when I pop a cap in their ass! |
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"The company's need to stop prosecuting the employees for trying to protect the business. 99% have a complete hands off approach to shoplifting and retail theft. If I didn't have to worry about getting fired, I'd go out in the lot when the perp was leaving and beat the ever loving $h!t out of them and then take the product back in and put it on the shelf.
And then you'd run the risk of being stabbed, beaten up by someone bigger and stronger than you, or you could be prosecuted for assault. Is that really worth a few pounds of a multi-million pound corporation's takings?"
I work in one of those big box stores that regularly employ military veterans. Let some with PTSD loose on the perps. You can almost guarantee they will never offend again. As for getting beat up or stabbed, I'm not concerned. I have a CCW, and they brought a knife to a gun fight. |
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