FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > victimless crime ?
victimless crime ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So I'm watching this dvd (no not porn) and right at the start I get the piracy warning. Afterwards it states that piracy is not a victimless crime.
I've been racking my brains, what is a victimless crime ?
Crimes of fashion ?
That was the best I could think of, but even then with a crime of fashion, there is the victim wearing the clothes.
Over to the Sunday night fab'ers ...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it refers to piracy being used by gangsters etc for shifting money,drugs,porn,snuff movies etc etc..
I think that might just be outdated a little... |
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There isn't such a thing as a victimless crime but some criminals think there is. Copying a dvd for gain, cheating on insurance claims, shoplifting are all seen by some people who commit those crimes as victimless. Of course they aren't because the likes of us pay eventually.
Whether or not you consider copying dvds to give s copy to your mate is a crime is another discussion altogether of course. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think it refers to piracy being used by gangsters etc for shifting money,drugs,porn,snuff movies etc etc..
I think that might just be outdated a little..."
I get that, but the statement 'victimless crime' was what I referring too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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if i spit on the street , thats a victimless crime...
I'd get punished..but nobody was hurt or likely to be hurt...unless I spat on a drivers windshield causing a massive grogger block on the drivers view and he then swerved into a chilli potato vending stall,killing three kilted japanese warriors and their pet dogs and pet budgies |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"if i spit on the street , thats a victimless crime...
I'd get punished..but nobody was hurt or likely to be hurt...unless I spat on a drivers windshield causing a massive grogger block on the drivers view and he then swerved into a chilli potato vending stall,killing three kilted japanese warriors and their pet dogs and pet budgies "
Put Like that, dam those budgies |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if i spit on the street , thats a victimless crime...
I'd get punished..but nobody was hurt or likely to be hurt...unless I spat on a drivers windshield causing a massive grogger block on the drivers view and he then swerved into a chilli potato vending stall,killing three kilted japanese warriors and their pet dogs and pet budgies "
Technically its a health hazard. Saliva contains bacteria and can also pass on viruses, so there 'could' be a victim. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Graffitti
vandalized property someone owns"
Yes, but it might be public property, and it can, if creative/artistic, brighten up a community. Less offensive than the (perfectly legal) advertising hoardings if you ask me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if i spit on the street , thats a victimless crime...
I'd get punished..but nobody was hurt or likely to be hurt...unless I spat on a drivers windshield causing a massive grogger block on the drivers view and he then swerved into a chilli potato vending stall,killing three kilted japanese warriors and their pet dogs and pet budgies
Technically its a health hazard. Saliva contains bacteria and can also pass on viruses, so there 'could' be a victim."
it was definitely a health hazzard for those kilted japanese warriors and their pets |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Taking drugs
 think about it and all the stuff that goes on before the drugs get to you. "
Yes, but that's precisely because it's illegal. The same thing doesn't happen with the alcohol trade (except for example during prohibition) |
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"Graffitti
vandalized property someone owns
Yes, but it might be public property, and it can, if creative/artistic, brighten up a community. Less offensive than the (perfectly legal) advertising hoardings if you ask me."
I'm inclined to agree with you but a crime is something that's illegal so graffiti qualifies for the purposes of this discussion.  |
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"Taking drugs
think about it and all the stuff that goes on before the drugs get to you.
Yes, but that's precisely because it's illegal. The same thing doesn't happen with the alcohol trade (except for example during prohibition)"
As I just said we are talking about victimless crimes and drinking alcohol isn't criminal as you point out so not relevant to the discussion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"isn't oral sex illegal in some parts of the USA, hard to see a victim there between consensual adults. "
dogs have to wear knickerbockers in some states lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Prostitution...
Euthanasia...
Hard to find a victim in the euthanasia one.
"
Might be onto a winner with that one, but legally its a crime, is it morally a crime ? Ethically a crime ? |
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"Prostitution...
Euthanasia...
Hard to find a victim in the euthanasia one.
Might be onto a winner with that one, but legally its a crime, is it morally a crime ? Ethically a crime ?"
Circumstance is key to that one and belief. Personally if a loved one asked me to help them end their life that was full of unbearable pain I would seriously consider doing so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Driving the wrong way around a roundabout at 4 in the morning when you can see all other entry/exit points and know 100% that there's no other traffic on the road!  |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"Prostitution...
Euthanasia...
Hard to find a victim in the euthanasia one.
Might be onto a winner with that one, but legally its a crime, is it morally a crime ? Ethically a crime ?"
Its a crime....But a victimless one |
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Until this year it was illegal for a woman in Paris to wear trousers unless she was holding the handle bars of a bicycle or the rains of a horse.
Now that's pretty victimless if you ask me.
Jenny. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Prostitution...
Euthanasia..."
Prostitution isn't illegal in the UK is it? I thought soliciting was the illegal part. A prostitute may pay taxes as a self-employed person.
Euthanasia is still illegal in the UK so at the moment the person helped to their death would be considered a victim and the person providing the help would also be a victim as the law would be against them.
I can't think of any victimless crimes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol"
Victim would be the person who flies through the windscreen |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was talking about alcohol for purposes of comparison with illicit drugs...the only victim, directly, is the user, that's their own choice. But the effects of the drug trade happen because it's illegal. If , heroin, pot were legal like alcohol is, there wouldn't be the criminal activity in its trade.
Tax evasion...not victimless...deprives governments of money it could be spending on its citizens (many of whom have worked to make the tax evader a profit).
Prostitution...not victimless...I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to shag any dirty fucker that came along just to get by.
A victimless crime...homosexual acts between consenting adults is still illegal in many parts of the world due to outdated perceptions of morality. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol"
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I was talking about alcohol for purposes of comparison with illicit drugs...the only victim, directly, is the user, that's their own choice. But the effects of the drug trade happen because it's illegal. If , heroin, pot were legal like alcohol is, there wouldn't be the criminal activity in its trade.
Tax evasion...not victimless...deprives governments of money it could be spending on its citizens (many of whom have worked to make the tax evader a profit).
Prostitution...not victimless...I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to shag any dirty fucker that came along just to get by.
A victimless crime...homosexual acts between consenting adults is still illegal in many parts of the world due to outdated perceptions of morality."
Alcohol is legal but there is still dangerous bootleg alcohol available that is killing people. Legalising something doesn't necessarily take away all of the criminal element. |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Victim would be the person who flies through the windscreen "
You are not counted a victim if you are the one comiting the crime... |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
Victims are not those who are killed or physically harmed. Some kinds of crimes hit business and then lead to affecting people's jobs and livelihoods.
A victim of burglary or fraud is not physically hurt but they are still victims. |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow."
Yeah, IF they went through windscreen..
|
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"I was talking about alcohol for purposes of comparison with illicit drugs...the only victim, directly, is the user, that's their own choice. But the effects of the drug trade happen because it's illegal.
"
Yes I understood the point you were making but we're talking about victimless crimes and whatever we think about whether something should be illegal or not using or possessing certain drugs is illegal. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Victim would be the person who flies through the windscreen
You are not counted a victim if you are the one comiting the crime..."
Ok, devils advocate
What of that farmer who got jailed for reprimanding an intruder.
The criminal became the victim ..... |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow.
Yeah, IF they went through windscreen..
"
Even if they didn't and made a whiplash claim on the insurance then it will add to our premiums. |
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"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Victim would be the person who flies through the windscreen
You are not counted a victim if you are the one comiting the crime...
Ok, devils advocate
What of that farmer who got jailed for reprimanding an intruder.
The criminal became the victim ..... "
Technically they were both criminals and victims at the same time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow.
Yeah, IF they went through windscreen..
"
The law in this case has to minimise risks. It's like neglecting health and safety standards doesn't necessarily result in harm, but in case it does, someone has to be held accountable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Victim would be the person who flies through the windscreen
You are not counted a victim if you are the one comiting the crime...
Ok, devils advocate
What of that farmer who got jailed for reprimanding an intruder.
The criminal became the victim ..... "
One side says he didn't have to shoot to kill, the other says when you're in that situation, you panic |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow.
Yeah, IF they went through windscreen..
The law in this case has to minimise risks. It's like neglecting health and safety standards doesn't necessarily result in harm, but in case it does, someone has to be held accountable."
Its a crime! They get punished for it!
BUT....No victim...Victimless crime! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So to summarize, there is no such thing as a 'victimless crime' ?
If the collective oracle of fab'ers can't give me one (lol) then maybe there really isn't one |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow.
Yeah, IF they went through windscreen..
Even if they didn't and made a whiplash claim on the insurance then it will add to our premiums."
Your assuming they have an accident!!
Its a crime to drive without a seatbelt...accident or not! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Driving without a seat belt would be one....
Sure there are a few we not thought of lol
Is it? There may be no immediate victim on a one off occasion but going through the window and causing a Paddy type budgie accident might follow.
Yeah, IF they went through windscreen..
Even if they didn't and made a whiplash claim on the insurance then it will add to our premiums.
Your assuming they have an accident!!
Its a crime to drive without a seatbelt...accident or not!"
Finding it difficult to argue with the seatbelt example, without adding a 'what if'
Should we try for another or is that ambitious on a Sunday evening |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"So to summarize, there is no such thing as a 'victimless crime' ?
If the collective oracle of fab'ers can't give me one (lol) then maybe there really isn't one"
To summarize.....
Victimless crime refers to behaviour that is illegal but does not violate or threaten the rights of anyone else....
So yes.....There ARE victimless crimes... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Various types of pornography have previously been illegal in this country (hardcore until 1999, prior to that erotic literature...most recently things such as bondage, watersports)...because they would supposedly 'corrupt' those who viewed it. Now I'm not suggesting the pornography industry itself is victimless, but its possible that these could have been illegal when everyone involved was a consenting adult...again it's changing perceptions of sexual morality. Most people on this site would have been breaking the law 15 years ago. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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regarding the spitting in the street as a crime that may be about public health(i think its more about it being seen as a vile act than a health one), what if I, openly snot on the ground????? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is gobbin a crime?
I know it is abroad in some places ..and not too sure but here I think u can be fined for it, or they are proposing it
It should be.....Its vile!!"
worse when ur on the number 40 lol |
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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago
In a crisp poke on the A814 |
"Is gobbin a crime?
I know it is abroad in some places ..and not too sure but here I think u can be fined for it, or they are proposing it
It should be.....Its vile!!
worse when ur on the number 40 lol "
ewwwwwwwww can imagine! LOL |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is gobbin a crime?
I know it is abroad in some places ..and not too sure but here I think u can be fined for it, or they are proposing it
It should be.....Its vile!!
worse when ur on the number 40 lol
ewwwwwwwww can imagine! LOL"
yeahh..that or sitting on someones pish! lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ? "
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It is thought of as victimless as if you didn't copy the film, you aren't likely to buy it either.
So the victim, the movie studio, wouldn't be getting your money either way.
However, with piracy leading to drugs, human trafficking, terrorism and whatever else they feel like linking it to this week, they are saying there are.victims. |
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As far as Im aware it is still illegal to sodomize a woman in this country.
So all the anal sex which takes place between consenting adults of opposite genders where the female receives is a crime |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as Im aware it is still illegal to sodomize a woman in this country.
So all the anal sex which takes place between consenting adults of opposite genders where the female receives is a crime "
Pretty sure that law was repealed back in the '90's... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as Im aware it is still illegal to sodomize a woman in this country.
So all the anal sex which takes place between consenting adults of opposite genders where the female receives is a crime
Pretty sure that law was repealed back in the '90's..."
bloody hope so  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol"
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A black cab driver not carrying a bail of hay in his boot is a crime.
Who's the victim of this heinous act though ? "
It would be very sad if there was a hungry horse nearby. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"defacing an image of the queen on a currency?
Would she not be awfully upset at this very rude act. "
one raises one's arse in i dont give a shit what one thinks!..lets raise ones arse in unison!  |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Blasphemy"
Some people do genuinely feel very offended by that so they could call themselves victims. Other people might disagree with them but you can't underestimate the depth of feelings of people with a keen faith. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blasphemy
Some people do genuinely feel very offended by that so they could call themselves victims. Other people might disagree with them but you can't underestimate the depth of feelings of people with a keen faith."
Granted, but to be a crime there has to be an element of proof..blind faith doesn't cut it.
The only victims of blasphemy in some countries are the people who commit it |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Blasphemy
Some people do genuinely feel very offended by that so they could call themselves victims. Other people might disagree with them but you can't underestimate the depth of feelings of people with a keen faith.
Granted, but to be a crime there has to be an element of proof..blind faith doesn't cut it.
The only victims of blasphemy in some countries are the people who commit it"
It is certainly no longer a crime in this country, as far as I am aware. Therefore it cannot count as a victimless crime anyway - as it isn't a crime in the first place. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims"
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blasphemy
Some people do genuinely feel very offended by that so they could call themselves victims. Other people might disagree with them but you can't underestimate the depth of feelings of people with a keen faith.
Granted, but to be a crime there has to be an element of proof..blind faith doesn't cut it.
The only victims of blasphemy in some countries are the people who commit it
It is certainly no longer a crime in this country, as far as I am aware. Therefore it cannot count as a victimless crime anyway - as it isn't a crime in the first place."
Technically it's still illegal in Scotland.
It's a breach of common law in Northern Ireland |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
"
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ? |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ? "
But, if the vehicle you are blocking is an emergency vehicle? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ?
But, if the vehicle you are blocking is an emergency vehicle?"
if you start going down the "cause and effect" route, then you'll be able to link everything eventually....
bullshit laws, bullshit crimes, bullshit criminals....
you'd think we'd be mature enough by now to govern ourselves!  |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ?
But, if the vehicle you are blocking is an emergency vehicle?
if you start going down the "cause and effect" route, then you'll be able to link everything eventually....
bullshit laws, bullshit crimes, bullshit criminals....
you'd think we'd be mature enough by now to govern ourselves! "
We do govern ourselves. Police officers are civilians just like anyone else. MPs are civilians - and anyone can be one. All adults over 18 can vote so have a voice in determining how we govern. We have the right to protest, etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ? "
An ambulance is trying to get past the car which is illegally parked and blocking the road. It has an emergency patient in the back and he needs to get to hospital asap! Still no victim? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ?
But, if the vehicle you are blocking is an emergency vehicle?
if you start going down the "cause and effect" route, then you'll be able to link everything eventually....
bullshit laws, bullshit crimes, bullshit criminals....
you'd think we'd be mature enough by now to govern ourselves!
We do govern ourselves. Police officers are civilians just like anyone else. MPs are civilians - and anyone can be one. All adults over 18 can vote so have a voice in determining how we govern. We have the right to protest, etc."
Vote? Who for?
The one that tells the biggest lies?
And under the terrorist act you have to apply for a licence to protest legally! 
Sounds like a facist regime to me like!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry it's late on a Sunday but what about parking on a curb, you get a ticket for that down our street but who is that hurting.
Parking on a yellow line is a crime, who's the victim ?
parking is a good one I suppose...well done lol
Parking does have a victim, if you park on double yellow you may be obstructing traffic, and they would be the victims
A car in your way does not make you a victim!
You would have to be quite a sensitive soul to class yourself as a victim because you got held up in a little traffic.
Would you be entitled to victim support ?
An ambulance is trying to get past the car which is illegally parked and blocking the road. It has an emergency patient in the back and he needs to get to hospital asap! Still no victim?"
Cause and effect big man! 
Natural selection?
Call it what you will...because sometimes..shit happens! |
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