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Modern Life
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"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit." If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942 | |||
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"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit." I'd honestly say that's a conservative estimate. There's no way we can adapt to all the facets of advancement in 80 years? 200 maybe. | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942" But did he party like it was 1999? | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942" And my Dad thinks it's 1947/8. | |||
"The homosapien evolved from hunting, eating , sleeping and reproducing (like fab really) to complain about the design of the M&S store and the inability to locate the almond milk. " Haha, indeed. The later though is isolated to 0.007% of our existence. | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942 And my Dad thinks it's 1947/8. " My dad's well aware that its 2024 but lives as if it's the forties. He wrote me a cheque recently dated 1944  | |||
"Go a little further back and it was a case of running 30+ miles a day and a diet of unprocessed meat and vegetables." Have you ever been to Aldi? | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942 But did he party like it was 1999?" Probably. In all seriousness my dad has lived his entire life in much the same way as someone from about 100 years ago (that might be because he's nearly 100). He eats sparingly, has worked hard physically all his life, grew much of our food etc. He's very physically fit and even in his late nineties has muscular arms and weighs the same as he did at twenty. I think he kind of proves the point the op is making | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942 And my Dad thinks it's 1947/8. My dad's well aware that its 2024 but lives as if it's the forties. He wrote me a cheque recently dated 1944 "I often write cheques? I recently ordered a new cheque and Clint at my bank (accessed via the phone) tried to espouse the benefits of Mobile phone transfers and that cheques were being phased out. I politely reminded Clint that I like the fact that I leave a written record of my completion of the invitation to treat, offer and acceptance of the contractual process. I may have well been talking to a pit pony. | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942 But did he party like it was 1999? Probably. In all seriousness my dad has lived his entire life in much the same way as someone from about 100 years ago (that might be because he's nearly 100). He eats sparingly, has worked hard physically all his life, grew much of our food etc. He's very physically fit and even in his late nineties has muscular arms and weighs the same as he did at twenty. I think he kind of proves the point the op is making" He is a hero and should go into politics! | |||
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"I've had the same musings myself many times. That's not to say there hasn't been positives technologically and socially. Are we heading to a breaking point though, the sheer volume of information flow and pace of life. How far ahead of the biological evolutionary curve are we? What is the impact on humans as individuals and are we really better off for it. I think the question needs to be asked, how can technology be serving human needs rather than just how can we maximise profits." Of kids should be banned from owning or having a phone and or other technology until they are 16. | |||
"I can remember at uni ( 4 years ago) a professor of neurobiology saying that evolutionarily we are about 50-80 years behind the current day. So as we've "done a speedy run" with life, and things get more stressful, hectic and isolating, it's completely understandable to think that mental illness is rampant. It must be a strange thing for our minds to endure when we're evolved to be in the 60's where things were perhaps a little slower, more simple and therefore probably less stressful and more of a community spirit. If it's any help my dad lives like it's 1942 But did he party like it was 1999? Probably. In all seriousness my dad has lived his entire life in much the same way as someone from about 100 years ago (that might be because he's nearly 100). He eats sparingly, has worked hard physically all his life, grew much of our food etc. He's very physically fit and even in his late nineties has muscular arms and weighs the same as he did at twenty. I think he kind of proves the point the op is making" But my Dad is 85, physically fit but brain less so. He adopted all digital technologies very early, did desk based jobs, hasn't a clue how to grow a wééd, let alone a potato and who drank far too much alcohol, ate far too much rich food and smoked till he was 45 ish. Played sports that smash your body up, like rugby and generally doesn't fit the classic picture of longevity. *Shrugs* | |||
"In all seriousness my dad has lived his entire life in much the same way as someone from about 100 years ago (that might be because he's nearly 100). He eats sparingly, has worked hard physically all his life, grew much of our food etc. He's very physically fit and even in his late nineties has muscular arms and weighs the same as he did at twenty. I think he kind of proves the point the op is making" He has pretty much lived a text book life in terms of health - keep active and eat natural foods. It is clear that this is how we have evolved to live and those that do it generally prosper. Those that don’t, don’t. | |||
"I've had the same musings myself many times. That's not to say there hasn't been positives technologically and socially. Are we heading to a breaking point though, the sheer volume of information flow and pace of life. How far ahead of the biological evolutionary curve are we? What is the impact on humans as individuals and are we really better off for it. I think the question needs to be asked, how can technology be serving human needs rather than just how can we maximise profits." I honestly think it's going to outpace us and widen the gap exponentially without a little thought. I don't want this thread to turn into an AI thread but it absolutely decimate many of our place's in society within the next 5 years. And that will continue at an accelerated state. Late stage capitalism is something everyone should worry about, more so if you're either young or have children. | |||
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"I've had the same musings myself many times. That's not to say there hasn't been positives technologically and socially. Are we heading to a breaking point though, the sheer volume of information flow and pace of life. How far ahead of the biological evolutionary curve are we? What is the impact on humans as individuals and are we really better off for it. I think the question needs to be asked, how can technology be serving human needs rather than just how can we maximise profits. I honestly think it's going to outpace us and widen the gap exponentially without a little thought. I don't want this thread to turn into an AI thread but it absolutely decimate many of our place's in society within the next 5 years. And that will continue at an accelerated state. Late stage capitalism is something everyone should worry about, more so if you're either young or have children." I couldn't agree more. Our failure to address the issue could well plunge future generations into unnecessary suffering and war. Probably not quite the AI sci-fi vision, although that does make for some great movies. | |||
"I think it was better when we died of TB and sent children to work and ate turnips and everyone drank weak beer. When we had no sanitation and life was relatively short and sweet and there was little sentiment about our dead children and the women who routinely died popping them out. The fact there's now 8bn+ of us on the planet suggests we're doing alright, species wide, in this 21st century. " Not the point at all. | |||
"I think it was better when we died of TB and sent children to work and ate turnips and everyone drank weak beer. When we had no sanitation and life was relatively short and sweet and there was little sentiment about our dead children and the women who routinely died popping them out. The fact there's now 8bn+ of us on the planet suggests we're doing alright, species wide, in this 21st century. " Funny if that same post was composed 300,000 years ago! | |||
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"I think it was better when we died of TB and sent children to work and ate turnips and everyone drank weak beer. When we had no sanitation and life was relatively short and sweet and there was little sentiment about our dead children and the women who routinely died popping them out. The fact there's now 8bn+ of us on the planet suggests we're doing alright, species wide, in this 21st century. Not the point at all." The point being humans have been consuming processed foods and inventing all sorts of technologies for eons. As soon as we domesticated animals and started farming, so 8000-10,000 years ago, we started really heavily mucking about with what could be deemed natural. Controlling the breeding of the domesticated animals, manufacturing non natural foods like cheese and wine and beer and bread. Whilst they are made from things that grow on the earth (or consume it), one does not hunter-gather a jug of mead or a loaf of bread. The diet of many humans has been heavily deficient in key nutrients for many centuries, usually due to poverty or crop failure or other such things. I mean, some of us haven't actually acquired the "can consume the milk of domesticated mammals" gene but things like that don't seem to stop humans spreading far and wide. The only biological measure of evolutionary success is one's success in procreating, on the individual level. At the species level, it's whether the population is increasing, decreasing or not changing much and for Homo sapiens, we're still increasing in number pretty effectively, in spite of all the UPFs and whatnot. From the perspective of evolution, it's probably not very relevant if life expectancy drops a bit because most people are not procreating beyond their late 40s (yes, some men do carry on procreating well into their 70, 80s etc but they are the exception). Basically, we only will evolve to be something different if it benefits our reproductive fitness as a species. Even the ridiculous bipedal pelvis/massive head problem, which has afflicted humans from the beginning of time, hasn't been a big enough issue to stop us flooding the earth and so there's little evolutionary pressure and advantage to change. | |||
"I think it was better when we died of TB and sent children to work and ate turnips and everyone drank weak beer. When we had no sanitation and life was relatively short and sweet and there was little sentiment about our dead children and the women who routinely died popping them out. The fact there's now 8bn+ of us on the planet suggests we're doing alright, species wide, in this 21st century. Not the point at all. The point being humans have been consuming processed foods and inventing all sorts of technologies for eons. As soon as we domesticated animals and started farming, so 8000-10,000 years ago, we started really heavily mucking about with what could be deemed natural. Controlling the breeding of the domesticated animals, manufacturing non natural foods like cheese and wine and beer and bread. Whilst they are made from things that grow on the earth (or consume it), one does not hunter-gather a jug of mead or a loaf of bread. The diet of many humans has been heavily deficient in key nutrients for many centuries, usually due to poverty or crop failure or other such things. I mean, some of us haven't actually acquired the "can consume the milk of domesticated mammals" gene but things like that don't seem to stop humans spreading far and wide. The only biological measure of evolutionary success is one's success in procreating, on the individual level. At the species level, it's whether the population is increasing, decreasing or not changing much and for Homo sapiens, we're still increasing in number pretty effectively, in spite of all the UPFs and whatnot. From the perspective of evolution, it's probably not very relevant if life expectancy drops a bit because most people are not procreating beyond their late 40s (yes, some men do carry on procreating well into their 70, 80s etc but they are the exception). Basically, we only will evolve to be something different if it benefits our reproductive fitness as a species. Even the ridiculous bipedal pelvis/massive head problem, which has afflicted humans from the beginning of time, hasn't been a big enough issue to stop us flooding the earth and so there's little evolutionary pressure and advantage to change. " Yeah, ok - that makes a lot of sense. I was originally talking about overall wellbeing of modern man rather than species survival (I think our survival is a given, especially as we're both typing here) but I totally get your point. I think the only thing affecting population/birth rate is political and economic factors... I'm not sure we can biologically adapt for that (the premise of the thread). I need to think about that to see how I think it will all turn out, but I think I've been purposely ignoring it as it's not a great outlook (for me at least). | |||
"A very common opinion OP and lots of stuff out to read up on I'm Gen X and we have seen the rise in technology more than anyone else. But even Ifeel old now as the only social media I use is facbook occasionaly! tick tock, instrgram, no interest. " We can flip between metric and imperial, digital and analogue and can go offline without needing therapy. We know what independence and freedom is. | |||
"A very common opinion OP and lots of stuff out to read up on I'm Gen X and we have seen the rise in technology more than anyone else. But even Ifeel old now as the only social media I use is facbook occasionaly! tick tock, instrgram, no interest. We can flip between metric and imperial, digital and analogue and can go offline without needing therapy. We know what independence and freedom is." We grew up fast and acted like 30 year old at 13, we also didn't grow up and acted like 30 year at ????? OH and write BOOBIES on our calculeters | |||
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"I think it was better when we died of TB and sent children to work and ate turnips and everyone drank weak beer. When we had no sanitation and life was relatively short and sweet and there was little sentiment about our dead children and the women who routinely died popping them out. The fact there's now 8bn+ of us on the planet suggests we're doing alright, species wide, in this 21st century. Not the point at all. The point being humans have been consuming processed foods and inventing all sorts of technologies for eons. As soon as we domesticated animals and started farming, so 8000-10,000 years ago, we started really heavily mucking about with what could be deemed natural. Controlling the breeding of the domesticated animals, manufacturing non natural foods like cheese and wine and beer and bread. Whilst they are made from things that grow on the earth (or consume it), one does not hunter-gather a jug of mead or a loaf of bread. The diet of many humans has been heavily deficient in key nutrients for many centuries, usually due to poverty or crop failure or other such things. I mean, some of us haven't actually acquired the "can consume the milk of domesticated mammals" gene but things like that don't seem to stop humans spreading far and wide. The only biological measure of evolutionary success is one's success in procreating, on the individual level. At the species level, it's whether the population is increasing, decreasing or not changing much and for Homo sapiens, we're still increasing in number pretty effectively, in spite of all the UPFs and whatnot. From the perspective of evolution, it's probably not very relevant if life expectancy drops a bit because most people are not procreating beyond their late 40s (yes, some men do carry on procreating well into their 70, 80s etc but they are the exception). Basically, we only will evolve to be something different if it benefits our reproductive fitness as a species. Even the ridiculous bipedal pelvis/massive head problem, which has afflicted humans from the beginning of time, hasn't been a big enough issue to stop us flooding the earth and so there's little evolutionary pressure and advantage to change. Yeah, ok - that makes a lot of sense. I was originally talking about overall wellbeing of modern man rather than species survival (I think our survival is a given, especially as we're both typing here) but I totally get your point. I think the only thing affecting population/birth rate is political and economic factors... I'm not sure we can biologically adapt for that (the premise of the thread). I need to think about that to see how I think it will all turn out, but I think I've been purposely ignoring it as it's not a great outlook (for me at least)." The main things that have driven the mid 20th century onwards population explosion are modern medicine (especially vaccines and antibiotics) and the increased nutritional and calorific value of the diet of many humans. However, if you look at the countries where the birth rate is highest, these are often the places with the poorest healthcare and diets. These places have high child mortality and so high birth rates are necessary. Blunt, but true. Obviously in the UK and many Western countries, one big and relatively recently influence on our birth rate is the availability and effectiveness of birth control. However whilst we've been shrinking our family sizes, we've also been driving much higher life expectancy and so there's been no appreciable shrinkage in population. Birth control and massively increased life expectancy circle back to modern medicine, and the life expectancy bit also circles back to diet. The modern high calorie diet is actually pretty effective at improving child mortality and improving outcomes for pregnant women and again, really bluntly, if consuming way too many calories makes people obese and gives them ill health, so long as they manage to reproduce, from the evolutionary perspective, it kinda doesn't matter. So long as you're not too unhealthy to procreate, give birth successfully and raise your offspring to a point they're sufficiently independent (or someone else will be altruistic and do it for you, if you die before that point). Evolution is very unsentimental. | |||
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"I totally agree with you, people seemed happier before the boom of technology " I'm not convinced the average serf was happy. There has been no time in human history where life has been easy or rosy. | |||
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"That's very interesting- thanks for that. Will definitely check out the first book. I left out the social aspects, even where they are intertwined as there's so much to it would be hard to put in a single post! I feel that most people can relate to the fact that the way we interact and communicate has changed significantly (over their life spans), but may not appreciate that our diets (perhaps less so our activities) are so different than over a decade ago. The difference between now and 50 and 100 plus years ago for most is crazy." Ok. Buckle up, we're going for the deep dive here haha! Let's go all the way back to Sumarian times. A time that's been considered the cradle of civilisation by both mainstream and those pushing the boundaries of what is excepted by the mainstream. There are technologies and techniques we still to this day can't explain in regards to the pyramids all over this world and other architectures. One thing since that time that has been a common theme is "we are a social species that thrives best in communities". Fast forward to where we are now: We are more connected now than we have been for centuries by the technology we currently hold, yet we have become more disconnected socially than we have been for centuries through the technologies we hold. The irony lol. The fastest way to destroy a culture/society is to break the bond between the eldest and youngest generation. Through this process you stop the process of tradition and intergenerational knowledge of the culture they are in being passed down. Our education system has not been updated since the Victorian era/industrial revolution. Even after it's been proven there are 7 different ways of learning, we still educate only on an academic based knowledge, which is the ability to recall text book knowledge on demand. For those not of this nature, it becomes easier to convince them that they are stupid/less intelligent than most and to convince them to take more remedial jobs like stacking shelfs, manual labour jobs etc. In short, we are still trained/educated to be factory workers from a young age. First things to be cut in any educational body are always arts and music, two things that massively nurture critical thinking. (There's far more I'd like to touch on in regards to the two tier education system, but I'll leave it here in my attempt to remain succinct.) "None are more hopelessly imprisoned than those who falsely believe they are free." Jonathan Wolfgang von Goethe. Narrow the parameters of what is socially acceptable to debate publicly, but allow vigorous debate to help further the delusion of freedom and democracy. As an example of this lets take the Palestine and Israel conflict. For the first time in most of our life time, we are quite literally watching the massacre of civilians, children and elderly included, be streamed live and consistently since 7/9/23. If you speak bad of Israel you are called antisemitic or racist or madder still that you support terrorist. Now through in any form of extremism promoted openly in society. Far left and far right are as bad as each other. Too much of anything is bad for us and we know this. Try breathing pure oxygen and see how far that gets you lol. Through extremist movements and dating apps we have seen it further the breakdown of the family unit. Why work on a relationship when you can just start again? You deserve better and they're a fool for not seeing this. Fuck em and find someone who values you. (This is all very ego based way of thinking) Now break down spiritual/religious practices that encourage virtue and inward and outward growth. Compassion and care for others. The above becomes even easier to indoctrinate to the masses. In short, the degrade in mental health and quality of life for the majority isn't by accident. People in power don't rely on happy accidents. They rely on subservient masses just intelligent enough to work their job and be so ground down with the 9-5 they welcome the brief hours they have to play with their toys before they have to go back to work. There is so much more I'd like to say, but short of breaking out my projector and inviting everyone to a fabtalk event, I'll leave it there for now. | |||
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"All well and good but have you got a massive cock?" Nah man. Its tiny, but goes like a sewing machine  | |||
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"That's very interesting- thanks for that. Will definitely check out the first book. I left out the social aspects, even where they are intertwined as there's so much to it would be hard to put in a single post! I feel that most people can relate to the fact that the way we interact and communicate has changed significantly (over their life spans), but may not appreciate that our diets (perhaps less so our activities) are so different than over a decade ago. The difference between now and 50 and 100 plus years ago for most is crazy. Ok. Buckle up, we're going for the deep dive here haha! Let's go all the way back to Sumarian times. A time that's been considered the cradle of civilisation by both mainstream and those pushing the boundaries of what is excepted by the mainstream. There are technologies and techniques we still to this day can't explain in regards to the pyramids all over this world and other architectures. One thing since that time that has been a common theme is "we are a social species that thrives best in communities". Fast forward to where we are now: We are more connected now than we have been for centuries by the technology we currently hold, yet we have become more disconnected socially than we have been for centuries through the technologies we hold. The irony lol. The fastest way to destroy a culture/society is to break the bond between the eldest and youngest generation. Through this process you stop the process of tradition and intergenerational knowledge of the culture they are in being passed down. Our education system has not been updated since the Victorian era/industrial revolution. Even after it's been proven there are 7 different ways of learning, we still educate only on an academic based knowledge, which is the ability to recall text book knowledge on demand. For those not of this nature, it becomes easier to convince them that they are stupid/less intelligent than most and to convince them to take more remedial jobs like stacking shelfs, manual labour jobs etc. In short, we are still trained/educated to be factory workers from a young age. First things to be cut in any educational body are always arts and music, two things that massively nurture critical thinking. (There's far more I'd like to touch on in regards to the two tier education system, but I'll leave it here in my attempt to remain succinct.) "None are more hopelessly imprisoned than those who falsely believe they are free." Jonathan Wolfgang von Goethe. Narrow the parameters of what is socially acceptable to debate publicly, but allow vigorous debate to help further the delusion of freedom and democracy. As an example of this lets take the Palestine and Israel conflict. For the first time in most of our life time, we are quite literally watching the massacre of civilians, children and elderly included, be streamed live and consistently since 7/9/23. If you speak bad of Israel you are called antisemitic or racist or madder still that you support terrorist. Now through in any form of extremism promoted openly in society. Far left and far right are as bad as each other. Too much of anything is bad for us and we know this. Try breathing pure oxygen and see how far that gets you lol. Through extremist movements and dating apps we have seen it further the breakdown of the family unit. Why work on a relationship when you can just start again? You deserve better and they're a fool for not seeing this. Fuck em and find someone who values you. (This is all very ego based way of thinking) Now break down spiritual/religious practices that encourage virtue and inward and outward growth. Compassion and care for others. The above becomes even easier to indoctrinate to the masses. In short, the degrade in mental health and quality of life for the majority isn't by accident. People in power don't rely on happy accidents. They rely on subservient masses just intelligent enough to work their job and be so ground down with the 9-5 they welcome the brief hours they have to play with their toys before they have to go back to work. There is so much more I'd like to say, but short of breaking out my projector and inviting everyone to a fabtalk event, I'll leave it there for now. " Some good points there. The breaking of the family generations and community Is the cause of rise of mental health problems. When you have a ‘state’ to solve your problems he don’t need a family or community. Turns out other than a little bit of financial support the state isn’t a very good alternative family or community, I reckon they will flog this horse for a few more hundred years before they realise their mistake and ditch it. Expect things to get a lot worse before they get better | |||
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" People in power don't rely on happy accidents. They rely on subservient masses just intelligent enough to work their job and be so ground down with the 9-5 they welcome the brief hours they have to play with their toys before they have to go back to work. " I don’t agree with this at all. I’m numerous people over the years imagine in some entity that controls them, like you described above, unless you live in harsh Dictatorships nobody is controlled everybody’s free. Capitalism doesn’t work where there is control, even when we try and regulate it we break it. Communist leaders visit in the UK before the Cold War insisted on meeting the person in charge of bread supply for Greater London, they were very impressed with the range of bread products in all the large small stores and wanted to know how the distribution network was managed. Of course there was no person in charge and there was no defined distribution network, the market itself was free and working. Plenty of people unplug and live free lives. Who are these people in power in our western European democracy? Politicians have very little power or control, nothing will change much wether it’s Tories or labour. We decide who we put in power, Anyone can join a political party and stand. So we are in power politically Companies have no more power than the customers & shareholders give them most of us are customers & shareholders through pensions so we are in power. | |||
"Another book worth reading is Sapiens. 10 years ago I thought my generation would ‘make it’ and but feared for our children and grandchildren. The incredible speed of technology and the extraordinary ‘my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend ‘ world ethos supported by religious fanatics and the far right and far left , leaves me wondering how far my generation will make before we destroy everything. Happy days, so let’s live for them" I keep meaning to get this book and then forgetting about it. Thanks for the reminder, dude | |||
