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Is gareth southgate a genius?
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By *hagTonight OP Man 29 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
I like him, do you? Have he found the perfect formula to win the games and could england win the world cup? I think that there are a chance of it and the game against the netherlands will be a good test to see if they have what it takes, the waiting is to see  |
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I was thinking the same, it's a difficult one to judge and fans are fickle (inc. commentators).
I like to think he plays a numbers game and doesn't matter if the Win is ugly. But then I think he also has a golden horseshoe up his ass. Will our luck run out? |
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By (user no longer on site) 29 weeks ago
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"I like him, do you? Have he found the perfect formula to win the games and could england win the world cup? I think that there are a chance of it and the game against the netherlands will be a good test to see if they have what it takes, the waiting is to see "
Is this a wind up ? Could England win the World Cup ?!  |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side."
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has. |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has."
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down. |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has.
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down."
His job is not to entertain - it is to make sure he doesn’t lose for as long as he can. The less he looses the longer he stays in. |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has.
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down.
His job is not to entertain - it is to make sure he doesn’t lose for as long as he can. The less he looses the longer he stays in."
That’s not true though. If all football was played like England have played viewing figures would diminish and the money would be stripped from the game. |
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By (user no longer on site) 29 weeks ago
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I’m not a fan of his style of play, but other teams are playing the exact same way in this tournament.
If England were to win the euros I don’t think many would mind how they did it  |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has.
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down.
His job is not to entertain - it is to make sure he doesn’t lose for as long as he can. The less he looses the longer he stays in.
That’s not true though. If all football was played like England have played viewing figures would diminish and the money would be stripped from the game. "
Football was there before the money. It will be there after the money. |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has.
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down.
His job is not to entertain - it is to make sure he doesn’t lose for as long as he can. The less he looses the longer he stays in.
That’s not true though. If all football was played like England have played viewing figures would diminish and the money would be stripped from the game.
Football was there before the money. It will be there after the money."
That’s a different argument though. Take money from the game and everyone loses out.
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has.
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down.
His job is not to entertain - it is to make sure he doesn’t lose for as long as he can. The less he looses the longer he stays in.
That’s not true though. If all football was played like England have played viewing figures would diminish and the money would be stripped from the game.
Football was there before the money. It will be there after the money.
That’s a different argument though. Take money from the game and everyone loses out.
"
I don’t see how any of the money argument changes the fact that his job is not to lose.
Given a choice between winning ugly and losing beautifully I think most fans would take the former. |
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side.
I agree it is boring as hell to watch England but he has got them further on a more consistent basis than anyone else. This is tournament football - the goal is to get as far as you can. He is doing that better than anyone else ever has.
The reason there is so much money in football is because it is entertaining. I haven’t been entertained by this England side at all this tournament. I may change my mind on this if we win it but I’d rather go out in the quarters playing like prime Barcelona than lose the final not even giving it a go unless we go 1-0 down.
His job is not to entertain - it is to make sure he doesn’t lose for as long as he can. The less he looses the longer he stays in.
That’s not true though. If all football was played like England have played viewing figures would diminish and the money would be stripped from the game.
Football was there before the money. It will be there after the money.
That’s a different argument though. Take money from the game and everyone loses out.
I don’t see how any of the money argument changes the fact that his job is not to lose.
Given a choice between winning ugly and losing beautifully I think most fans would take the former."
I’m a Newcastle fan. I don’t watch football for the glory. I watch it to be entertained and forget about my mundane life for 90 minutes every week. I’d take giving it a go and losing than grinding out wins against lower ranked teams and going out against the first decent opposition we face. |
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By *AYENCouple 29 weeks ago
Lincolnshire |
"I’m not a fan of his style of play, but other teams are playing the exact same way in this tournament.
If England were to win the euros I don’t think many would mind how they did it "
It's strange how two people can see the exact same thing but see different things. I'm in awe of German, French, Spanish etc. football when I see their matches, but disappointed when I watch England play - so I really don't see the other teams playing the exact same way! K. |
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Does anyone remember how well England played in 1966?
We know we won the World Cup then.
If we win the Euros I don't think people will give a shit how badly we played, and how we have been lucky, winning ugly is winning. |
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How many people want him to manage your team?
Someone like Klopp gets the players running through walls and that shows in terms of what players do once they leave a club. He’ll walk into any job when he decides to manage again.
Yes Southgate has improved our record in tournaments but with the players we have at our disposal you feel another manager could/would have blown most teams they face away.
We haven’t got one superstar that carries the team - we’ve got at least 5/6 and a solid dependable team with the rest.
This is the guy that would have played Maguire and Stones at the back had Harry been fit. We’ve now unearthed Guehi and Konsa as dependable players. He’s stuck with Shaw and no other left back in a tournament knowing Shaw wasn’t fit when there’s other left backs he could have chosen. He’ll stick with Trippier and Walker until the death even though neither are playing well and Walker has made huge mistakes.
Leaving our chances down to luck instead of skill is evidence enough that Southgate isn’t a genius.
K
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By *hagTonight OP Man 29 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side."
Yes, you are right there, it is all about the results, it is a good team too |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 29 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"I was thinking the same, it's a difficult one to judge and fans are fickle (inc. commentators).
I like to think he plays a numbers game and doesn't matter if the Win is ugly. But then I think he also has a golden horseshoe up his ass. Will our luck run out?"
Yes, it is not always how you play, but rather it is the result that matters more, than anything else too  |
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By *ornycougaWoman 29 weeks ago
Wherever I lay my hat |
Now I don't know much about football but I think England's performance has been shite. As always. To draw against Switzerland??? How much money was on that pitch and the best they could manage was a draw! He has a lot to answer for imho |
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"You can have any manager you want , but when the players are over paid prima Donna’s and think they’re better than each other then they’ll never get it together "
That’s not the case with this group of players. I’m Southgate’s biggest critic but one thing he has done is unite the players. |
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By (user no longer on site) 29 weeks ago
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"He will never see another top job in football. Yes, it’s a results business but this is one of the most talented England squads ever and he has them playing like a Steve Bruce side."
Couldn't have put it better myself, he's scrapping by with luck atp |
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No one is giving France a bad time, they are in the semis and they haven’t even scored a goal from open play with all the talent they have got, so give England some credit maybe not entertaining but I won’t mind if they win the tournament playing like this and I don’t think no one else will give a shit either if we do |
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By (user no longer on site) 29 weeks ago
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No he isn't. I get that it's hard to establish a style of play at international level and that it's a result business, but we've had very favourable draws (yes, I know about Iceland and not getting through then), and it's tended to be individual moments that have helped us win. Saying we haven't got a replacement for Kalvin fucking Phillips should tell you that he's not a genius. |
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By (user no longer on site) 29 weeks ago
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I think much like in every other tournament he’s taken us to, the first team with real quality we play we’ll be out. He’s out coached by the better managers.
2018 Croatia
2020 Italy (although he thre this away by having the team retreat to its own box after taking the lead)
2022 France
He’s got an amazing squad and he’s playing safe with it, aiming not to lose rather than win, that eventually catches up with you.
I hope I’m wrong but I fear I won’t be. |
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I feel bad for him in a way because he seems an ok guy. He will probably feel hard done by, because he has had some results, but the frustration is valid.
He is way too risk averse and there's no call for it with the squad he has, in fact he invites pressure and plays to our weaknesses rather than strengths.
Then attacking it's too one dimensional the only real runner has been Saka, which has made us predictable and teams have been able to double up on him. It's frustrating to watch skilled players on the ball going sideways and backwards because there's just so little movement then giving the ball away and dropping deep.
Those issues are largely his responsibility and it's clear that a lot of the players are frustrated by his tactics, not just the supporters and pundits. The quality and fitness we have, we should be team pressing high up the pitch and putting them on the back foot. His tactics show a lack of faith in his players and too much fear for his opponents. |
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"I feel bad for him in a way because he seems an ok guy. He will probably feel hard done by, because he has had some results, but the frustration is valid.
He is way too risk averse and there's no call for it with the squad he has, in fact he invites pressure and plays to our weaknesses rather than strengths.
Then attacking it's too one dimensional the only real runner has been Saka, which has made us predictable and teams have been able to double up on him. It's frustrating to watch skilled players on the ball going sideways and backwards because there's just so little movement then giving the ball away and dropping deep.
Those issues are largely his responsibility and it's clear that a lot of the players are frustrated by his tactics, not just the supporters and pundits. The quality and fitness we have, we should be team pressing high up the pitch and putting them on the back foot. His tactics show a lack of faith in his players and too much fear for his opponents. "
I feel you're probs giving him more thought than worth? My dad was high up in both footie/cricket as I was a teen. Absolutely not on the ground decisions, but you pick your team ones... Its mostly the luck of the draw, it's a game of elements, including luck. Aye, anyone can kick a football.. But it's not all that |
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"No one is giving France a bad time, they are in the semis and they haven’t even scored a goal from open play with all the talent they have got, so give England some credit maybe not entertaining but I won’t mind if they win the tournament playing like this and I don’t think no one else will give a shit either if we do "
The French media have been scathing about there play, but unless you read there sports papers you won’t hear about it |
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Feel daamned if he does daamned if he doesn't..
E.g. Switzerland were very dangerous on the break he pushes his team forward could have been stung at the back.. we drew and executed the penalties
Its a tournament we are one of three teams who could still win it...
Like someone else said years forward who cares how we won it if we do...
Most pundits / fans thought we had the team to win it... not many if any said we had to change manager first...
Southgate will leave either way after the tournament... 3 semis in 4 tournaments... capello sven hodgson.. never got us close.
Its coming home... maybe
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By *4bimMan 29 weeks ago
Farnborough Hampshire |
3 semi finals and 1 final under southgate.
im sure someone will correct me if thats wrong but england have had managers who had players like gerrard, rooney, shearer, lampard, gazza, beckham etc and these were top players in their day.
did they ever come close to winning anything or get to a final of something with the national team.
no they didnt.
currently under southgate england play a passive possession system which is boring to the eye and supporter, because this is not pep and man city with talented foreign players who know a system like that inside out.
as a player southgate was an honest pro, suffered a lot for missing an important penalty for england so he knows about failure.
i do think for the system he plays some players are unable to shine like they do for their clubs. but remember them same players play with highest or even higher quality foreign players foden is a good example of this.
even if england lose to holland i think getting to a semi final again is a minimum to be expected.
i hope southgate can walk away knowing his record as manager is better than many who came before him but i think the press will still go for him.
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By *ean counterMan 29 weeks ago
Market Harborough/ Kettering |
Between England winning the world cup in 1966 and 2016 England had won 6 games in major competitions at the knock out stage. Gareth Southgate has won 8 games in major competions at the knock out stage since starting in 2016 ! Enough said ! |
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By *panishRebelMan 29 weeks ago
Alicante Spain, and Cork City Ireland |
"I like him, do you? Have he found the perfect formula to win the games and could england win the world cup? I think that there are a chance of it and the game against the netherlands will be a good test to see if they have what it takes, the waiting is to see "
Genius? Absolutely not
A Gent? Absolutely
A great football brain? Not a bit of it
Lucky? Absolutely
Boring team set ups? Always
Stubborn? Totally
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Genius? No.
An honourable and good man, yes.
The football hasn’t been pretty.
BUT……I’d rather see England playing Semi Finals and Finals. I’d hate to go back to the days of not qualifying for tournaments, or going out in group stages.
The history books will say 3 semi finals in 4 major tournaments, maybe even 2 consecutive Euro finals. It won’t say “oh he got lucky with the draws, or played shit football”.
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Statistics show he's been good for England. BUT. he hasn't a clue what he's doing. Gent maybe. Never spoke to him but if he talks like he sets up his team think I'd be asleep 5 mins into conversation. .tactical brain. No chance. Statistics, show he has never won a thing only for best dressed manager.hopefully he will be in dole office very soon. |
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"Statistics show he's been good for England. BUT. he hasn't a clue what he's doing. Gent maybe. Never spoke to him but if he talks like he sets up his team think I'd be asleep 5 mins into conversation. .tactical brain. No chance. Statistics, show he has never won a thing only for best dressed manager.hopefully he will be in dole office very soon. "
This hasn’t aged well |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 29 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
I have a feeling that england can win it, because you need a lot of things also to go in your favour in a tournament like luck and as I see it, england have got all those things in the bag and what a perfect timing for that substitution he did to win the game too |
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I think the guy is fantastic, take it all the way back to the penalty miss. He bounced back.
Hes always conducted himself superbly and rarely gets it wrong. Very astute and a great talker to the media. Even when he drops players they accept it well.
Best of luck to him |
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"If England win today they should erect a Gareth Southgate statue the size of the Colossus on the Thames.
With the bag over the head?"
Awww I really wanted a giant Gareth Southgate statue. It would be symbolic of this era of British culture. |
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By *ermbiMan 28 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"Statistics show he's been good for England. BUT. he hasn't a clue what he's doing. Gent maybe. Never spoke to him but if he talks like he sets up his team think I'd be asleep 5 mins into conversation. .tactical brain. No chance. Statistics, show he has never won a thing only for best dressed manager.hopefully he will be in dole office very soon. "
And ypu managed England when from your ivory tower |
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"Statistics show he's been good for England. BUT. he hasn't a clue what he's doing. Gent maybe. Never spoke to him but if he talks like he sets up his team think I'd be asleep 5 mins into conversation. .tactical brain. No chance. Statistics, show he has never won a thing only for best dressed manager.hopefully he will be in dole office very soon.
And ypu managed England when from your ivory tower"
Done well didn't he. His 2 min from time sub ran out of luck. Get rid take shackles off one of the possibly best squads. Should never of played kane. Oh and love my ivory tower |
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"Naysayers……you’d prefer the halcyon days of not qualifying, or going out at group stages? "
I'm with you. It's time for a change, and I wish he knew how to play without the handbrake permanently on (to coin the great Wenger), but England have done more in the last 8 years than the previous 40, yet somehow this is terrible. |
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By *mf123Man 28 weeks ago
with one foot out the door |
Its always the hope that kills you id rather come last trying to win than come 2nd trying not to lose and this guy was born to not be quite good enough to win when its time to go take what you want |
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"Naysayers……you’d prefer the halcyon days of not qualifying, or going out at group stages?
I'm with you. It's time for a change, and I wish he knew how to play without the handbrake permanently on (to coin the great Wenger), but England have done more in the last 8 years than the previous 40, yet somehow this is terrible."
Agreed.
With all evidence suggesting otherwise, there seems to be an expectation of winning tournaments and anything else is seen as a failure.
No tournament wins in 58 years … that’s not a basis for expecting to win.
England are building nicely, getting to finals. |
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