Yes(whether it was him, or instructions from above)
We have a transport problem in London.And the amount of old train lines that would have been superb today,that were closed back then is just silly.And thats just in my north London area |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"He didn't close any lines. He only did the governments bidding. He was tasked to do a report with recommendations, the government closed lines."
I understand that but no-one remembers it as a government report. I bet most would be hard pushed to remember which government it was but as author of that report, Beeching's name lives on as the architect of those closures. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
Totally agree but hindsight is always 20/20. In the early sixties the car was becoming the mode of transport for the masses and trains were seen as outdated and very much on the decline.
Beeching initiated many things for BR including the inter city idea and frieghtliner which helped the trains service into the modern world.
If only the old lines were moth balled rather than ripped up and the land lost
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One line that runs along the back of me nearly went back then.Thank god it didn't.Everyone raves about this line.It runs from Moorgate,out to Hertfordshire.
You can be in Herts from Wood Green(ally pally) in about 22 minutes.Superb.
i do agree hindsight is a wonderful thing though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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here we go with statistics but, I believe the stat in '63 was something like 98% of passengers were travelling on only 50% of line.
Given, as previously mentioned here, that road use was being venerated as the way forward, there is little wonder the cuts took place.
A tragedy nonetheless (puts anorak away...)  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"here we go with statistics but, I believe the stat in '63 was something like 98% of passengers were travelling on only 50% of line.
Given, as previously mentioned here, that road use was being venerated as the way forward, there is little wonder the cuts took place.
And its a great idea to re-introduce some. The line into Bristol running along the Avon from Portishead will be fantastic.
A tragedy nonetheless (puts anorak away...) "
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"here we go with statistics but, I believe the stat in '63 was something like 98% of passengers were travelling on only 50% of line.
Given, as previously mentioned here, that road use was being venerated as the way forward, there is little wonder the cuts took place.
A tragedy nonetheless (puts anorak away...) "
It's also true that people didn't commute for work quite as they do now. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Did Beeching go too far in closing the stations and lines he identified half a century ago?
Are you supporting the re-introduction of some of the lines?"
It may be too late. There are already predictions that the Borders Line south out of Edinburgh will never attract the passenger numbers hoped for, simply because people have moved away. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's his name on it, but really he was merely doing a job. Whoever had been in that position would in reality have had to do the very same thing.
Seems a little harsh to lay the blame solely on one man's shoulders, he had no choice but to make such a decision but ultimately it was the government calling the shots. And it seems to me they then hung him out to dry. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
Every station had a porter even if it was barely used. Stupidity like that didn't help.
It didn't help that the report was flawed, the info was used by the amount of money taken rather than actual usage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Beeching was brought in as a hatchet-man from ICI (to which he returned almost immediately afterwards) to do exactly what the Govt of the day needed - not necessarily 'wanted'. At the time, based on Govt accounting methods (don't get me on them!!) BR was running at £140 million a year loss - in 1962??????? Jeeez! Gawd knows what that would be today, but it's a lot.
All Beeching really did was take the percentage of the system which produced the least per mile and shut it down. Anyone could have done that - you didn't need Beeching. But it deflected the spotlight from the then Minister of Transport and has continued to do so for 50 years. Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport 
As for supporting the reintroduction of some of the lines... if a case can be m made that there is the opportunity to open up some areas to bring back financial investment and viability, then I'm for it - A damned site more than I am for that flippin HS2 waste of money... Who builds a £35 Billion railway line and FORGETS to link it up to HS1 so people in Mancunianshire can go by train direct to Paris?????? Idiots! |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Beeching was brought in as a hatchet-man from ICI (to which he returned almost immediately afterwards) to do exactly what the Govt of the day needed - not necessarily 'wanted'. At the time, based on Govt accounting methods (don't get me on them!!) BR was running at £140 million a year loss - in 1962??????? Jeeez! Gawd knows what that would be today, but it's a lot.
All Beeching really did was take the percentage of the system which produced the least per mile and shut it down. Anyone could have done that - you didn't need Beeching. But it deflected the spotlight from the then Minister of Transport and has continued to do so for 50 years. Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
As for supporting the reintroduction of some of the lines... if a case can be m made that there is the opportunity to open up some areas to bring back financial investment and viability, then I'm for it - A damned site more than I am for that flippin HS2 waste of money... Who builds a £35 Billion railway line and FORGETS to link it up to HS1 so people in Mancunianshire can go by train direct to Paris?????? Idiots!"
The French made a request the Mancunians didn't have direct access Paris so as not to hinder international relations. Lol |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
What makes it worse is that our commuting habits have changed drastically. 50 years ago we were born, lived and died locally but now we move about the country and nearly all of us have to commute to work. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I hesitated to open this thread, thinking it may be similar to when I learnt what "Sounding" was  Thank God it's just about railways 
Just checked Urban Dictionary - you're safe....
Thanks P, didn't quite dare try it, just in case "
I'm not going to ask or look it up.
Wouldn't Arse End be easier with a handy rail connection? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
"
Marple? Same guy that introduced the postcode.
I need to get out more. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
Marple? Same guy that introduced the postcode.
I need to get out more. "
And was a shareholder of the company that was building the motorways at the time.
Coincidence?
Dave |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?   "
He's been dead at least twenty years. Not sure if he benefited. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut? "
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Dave |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut? "
He died in the mid 80s.
Gain financially? I dunno but he got a life peerage out of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He's been dead at least twenty years. Not sure if he benefited. "
ok thanks |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"I hesitated to open this thread, thinking it may be similar to when I learnt what "Sounding" was Thank God it's just about railways
Just checked Urban Dictionary - you're safe....
Thanks P, didn't quite dare try it, just in case
I'm not going to ask or look it up.
Wouldn't Arse End be easier with a handy rail connection?
I get enough guys requesting ANEL without having sleepers and track laid to direct them in...Oh, you meant my dwelling place, not my bottom "
Where would they put the buffer stops?
Dave |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Beeching was brought in as a hatchet-man from ICI (to which he returned almost immediately afterwards) to do exactly what the Govt of the day needed - not necessarily 'wanted'. At the time, based on Govt accounting methods (don't get me on them!!) BR was running at £140 million a year loss - in 1962??????? Jeeez! Gawd knows what that would be today, but it's a lot.
All Beeching really did was take the percentage of the system which produced the least per mile and shut it down. Anyone could have done that - you didn't need Beeching. But it deflected the spotlight from the then Minister of Transport and has continued to do so for 50 years. Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
As for supporting the reintroduction of some of the lines... if a case can be m made that there is the opportunity to open up some areas to bring back financial investment and viability, then I'm for it - A damned site more than I am for that flippin HS2 waste of money... Who builds a £35 Billion railway line and FORGETS to link it up to HS1 so people in Mancunianshire can go by train direct to Paris?????? Idiots!
The French made a request the Mancunians didn't have direct access Paris so as not to hinder international relations. Lol"
Actually it was because they wanted to prevent an exodus of all their citizens leaving Paris for the international centre of style and culture that is Manchester! |
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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago
Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria |
"I hesitated to open this thread, thinking it may be similar to when I learnt what "Sounding" was Thank God it's just about railways
Just checked Urban Dictionary - you're safe....
Thanks P, didn't quite dare try it, just in case
I'm not going to ask or look it up.
Wouldn't Arse End be easier with a handy rail connection?
I get enough guys requesting ANEL without having sleepers and track laid to direct them in...Oh, you meant my dwelling place, not my bottom
Where would they put the buffer stops?
Dave"
Any VWE gentlemen would encounter buffer stops right across my arse Dave  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in the mid 80s.
Gain financially? I dunno but he got a life peerage out of it."
I asked cos I wondered what his views would be now about the lines he did shut down ....... but guess we will never know if he thought he had done the right thing ..........and had he gained some financial reward he would never have disagreed with what he recommended |
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without beeching the bluebell line and others would never have come into existence so a sort of good came out of his vandalism . he is only supposed to have shut lines that were making a loss. some routes were obsolete |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Beeching was brought in as a hatchet-man from ICI (to which he returned almost immediately afterwards) to do exactly what the Govt of the day needed - not necessarily 'wanted'. At the time, based on Govt accounting methods (don't get me on them!!) BR was running at £140 million a year loss - in 1962??????? Jeeez! Gawd knows what that would be today, but it's a lot.
All Beeching really did was take the percentage of the system which produced the least per mile and shut it down. Anyone could have done that - you didn't need Beeching. But it deflected the spotlight from the then Minister of Transport and has continued to do so for 50 years. Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
As for supporting the reintroduction of some of the lines... if a case can be m made that there is the opportunity to open up some areas to bring back financial investment and viability, then I'm for it - A damned site more than I am for that flippin HS2 waste of money... Who builds a £35 Billion railway line and FORGETS to link it up to HS1 so people in Mancunianshire can go by train direct to Paris?????? Idiots!
The French made a request the Mancunians didn't have direct access Paris so as not to hinder international relations. Lol
Actually it was because they wanted to prevent an exodus of all their citizens leaving Paris for the international centre of style and culture that is Manchester! "
And the Eiffel Tower ending up in a scrap metal yard.
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"without beeching the bluebell line and others would never have come into existence so a sort of good came out of his vandalism . he is only supposed to have shut lines that were making a loss. some routes were obsolete "
Not just the lines. The majority of the steam engines were saved because the lines available due to the cuts. If the lines weren't there the engines would have been cut up apart a few in a museum or two.
Dave |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"I hesitated to open this thread, thinking it may be similar to when I learnt what "Sounding" was Thank God it's just about railways
Just checked Urban Dictionary - you're safe....
Thanks P, didn't quite dare try it, just in case
I'm not going to ask or look it up.
Wouldn't Arse End be easier with a handy rail connection?
I get enough guys requesting ANEL without having sleepers and track laid to direct them in...Oh, you meant my dwelling place, not my bottom
Where would they put the buffer stops?
Dave
Any VWE gentlemen would encounter buffer stops right across my arse Dave "
Not a through train then?
Dave |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"without beeching the bluebell line and others would never have come into existence so a sort of good came out of his vandalism . he is only supposed to have shut lines that were making a loss. some routes were obsolete
Not just the lines. The majority of the steam engines were saved because the lines available due to the cuts. If the lines weren't there the engines would have been cut up apart a few in a museum or two.
Dave"
And therein is the real emotion on this issue - the engines. Its not the lines. |
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"Beeching was brought in as a hatchet-man from ICI (to which he returned almost immediately afterwards) to do exactly what the Govt of the day needed - not necessarily 'wanted'. At the time, based on Govt accounting methods (don't get me on them!!) BR was running at £140 million a year loss - in 1962??????? Jeeez! Gawd knows what that would be today, but it's a lot.
All Beeching really did was take the percentage of the system which produced the least per mile and shut it down. Anyone could have done that - you didn't need Beeching. But it deflected the spotlight from the then Minister of Transport and has continued to do so for 50 years. Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
As for supporting the reintroduction of some of the lines... if a case can be m made that there is the opportunity to open up some areas to bring back financial investment and viability, then I'm for it - A damned site more than I am for that flippin HS2 waste of money... Who builds a £35 Billion railway line and FORGETS to link it up to HS1 so people in Mancunianshire can go by train direct to Paris?????? Idiots!
The French made a request the Mancunians didn't have direct access Paris so as not to hinder international relations. Lol
Actually it was because they wanted to prevent an exodus of all their citizens leaving Paris for the international centre of style and culture that is Manchester!
And the Eiffel Tower ending up in a scrap metal yard.
"
dont forget that a direct run from manchester would give the scousers a day trip to paris for some shoplifting |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Beeching was brought in as a hatchet-man from ICI (to which he returned almost immediately afterwards) to do exactly what the Govt of the day needed - not necessarily 'wanted'. At the time, based on Govt accounting methods (don't get me on them!!) BR was running at £140 million a year loss - in 1962??????? Jeeez! Gawd knows what that would be today, but it's a lot.
All Beeching really did was take the percentage of the system which produced the least per mile and shut it down. Anyone could have done that - you didn't need Beeching. But it deflected the spotlight from the then Minister of Transport and has continued to do so for 50 years. Everyone remembers Beeching. Brownie point for the name of the 1963 Minister of Transport
As for supporting the reintroduction of some of the lines... if a case can be m made that there is the opportunity to open up some areas to bring back financial investment and viability, then I'm for it - A damned site more than I am for that flippin HS2 waste of money... Who builds a £35 Billion railway line and FORGETS to link it up to HS1 so people in Mancunianshire can go by train direct to Paris?????? Idiots!
The French made a request the Mancunians didn't have direct access Paris so as not to hinder international relations. Lol
Actually it was because they wanted to prevent an exodus of all their citizens leaving Paris for the international centre of style and culture that is Manchester!
And the Eiffel Tower ending up in a scrap metal yard.
dont forget that a direct run from manchester would give the scousers a day trip to paris for some shoplifting "
Calm down, calm down. Lol |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Dave"
he (beeching) was paid £300 k for compiling his report + plus he was later awarded a life peerage putting his name to the report kept the then transport minister Mr Ernest marples who's construction company was the main contractor for the M1 & other large road contruction projects name in the background would quite rightly rais a storm in the press were it to happen now |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Davehe (beeching) was paid £300 k for compiling his report + plus he was later awarded a life peerage putting his name to the report kept the then transport minister Mr Ernest marples who's construction company was the main contractor for the M1 & other large road contruction projects name in the background would quite rightly rais a storm in the press were it to happen now "
I knew about the peerage but £300,000 payment I've never heard of and very excessive bearing in mind that the prime minister was only on £10,000 per year.
Dave |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Davehe (beeching) was paid £300 k for compiling his report + plus he was later awarded a life peerage putting his name to the report kept the then transport minister Mr Ernest marples who's construction company was the main contractor for the M1 & other large road contruction projects name in the background would quite rightly rais a storm in the press were it to happen now "
I didn't know about the Marples investment and construction conflict of interest. Thank you. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Davehe (beeching) was paid £300 k for compiling his report + plus he was later awarded a life peerage putting his name to the report kept the then transport minister Mr Ernest marples who's construction company was the main contractor for the M1 & other large road contruction projects name in the background would quite rightly rais a storm in the press were it to happen now
I didn't know about the Marples investment and construction conflict of interest. Thank you."
He was a director of the company that built the first ever section of motorway on British soil (the Preston bypass now part of the M6) and the M1 which came along soon after.
Dave |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Davehe (beeching) was paid £300 k for compiling his report + plus he was later awarded a life peerage putting his name to the report kept the then transport minister Mr Ernest marples who's construction company was the main contractor for the M1 & other large road contruction projects name in the background would quite rightly rais a storm in the press were it to happen now
I didn't know about the Marples investment and construction conflict of interest. Thank you.
He was a director of the company that built the first ever section of motorway on British soil (the Preston bypass now part of the M6) and the M1 which came along soon after.
Dave"
That gives me a slightly different view of the commissioning of the report. If £300k is correct that was a heck of a lot of money back then. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"I have a question on Beeching ......... is he still alive and did he gain financially from the number of lines he did shut?
He died in 1985 and other than his wage (£24,000 a year) he did not.
Davehe (beeching) was paid £300 k for compiling his report + plus he was later awarded a life peerage putting his name to the report kept the then transport minister Mr Ernest marples who's construction company was the main contractor for the M1 & other large road contruction projects name in the background would quite rightly rais a storm in the press were it to happen now
I didn't know about the Marples investment and construction conflict of interest. Thank you.
He was a director of the company that built the first ever section of motorway on British soil (the Preston bypass now part of the M6) and the M1 which came along soon after.
Dave
That gives me a slightly different view of the commissioning of the report. If £300k is correct that was a heck of a lot of money back then."
The 300k that _eavennhell mentioned is the first I've ever heard of it.
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
Courtesy of wiki
'Marples then appointed Beeching as Chairman of the British Railways Board in March 1961.[8] He would receive the same yearly salary that he was earning at I.C.I., the controversial sum of £24,000 (£367,000 in today's money)' |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Courtesy of wiki
'Marples then appointed Beeching as Chairman of the British Railways Board in March 1961.[8] He would receive the same yearly salary that he was earning at I.C.I., the controversial sum of £24,000 (£367,000 in today's money)'"
Thank you, that makes much more sense. Still £24k would have bought three houses back then. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Courtesy of wiki
'Marples then appointed Beeching as Chairman of the British Railways Board in March 1961.[8] He would receive the same yearly salary that he was earning at I.C.I., the controversial sum of £24,000 (£367,000 in today's money)'
Thank you, that makes much more sense. Still £24k would have bought three houses back then."
But compared to today's executives it is small change.
Dave |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Courtesy of wiki
'Marples then appointed Beeching as Chairman of the British Railways Board in March 1961.[8] He would receive the same yearly salary that he was earning at I.C.I., the controversial sum of £24,000 (£367,000 in today's money)'
Thank you, that makes much more sense. Still £24k would have bought three houses back then.
But compared to today's executives it is small change.
Dave"
Things were a little more proportionate then. |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Why has no one reintroduced the Motorail service it ran until the early 90`s."
It would be long journeys only for motorail (obviously) but the problem is once people get in there cars they tend to make the whole journey by car. It's only commuters that tend to do part car part train not long distance travellers. They either use the train or the car, not a mixture.
Dave |
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"Why has no one reintroduced the Motorail service it ran until the early 90`s.
It would be long journeys only for motorail (obviously) but the problem is once people get in there cars they tend to make the whole journey by car. It's only commuters that tend to do part car part train not long distance travellers. They either use the train or the car, not a mixture.
Dave"
We used the Motorail a few times while we lived abroad to save the long drive upto Glasgow and was always busy. Maybe not cost effective now?! |
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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago
Northamptonshire |
"Why has no one reintroduced the Motorail service it ran until the early 90`s.
It would be long journeys only for motorail (obviously) but the problem is once people get in there cars they tend to make the whole journey by car. It's only commuters that tend to do part car part train not long distance travellers. They either use the train or the car, not a mixture.
DaveWe used the Motorail a few times while we lived abroad to save the long drive upto Glasgow and was always busy. Maybe not cost effective now?!"
Not to mention missing the M6 nightmare. |
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"Why has no one reintroduced the Motorail service it ran until the early 90`s.
It would be long journeys only for motorail (obviously) but the problem is once people get in there cars they tend to make the whole journey by car. It's only commuters that tend to do part car part train not long distance travellers. They either use the train or the car, not a mixture.
DaveWe used the Motorail a few times while we lived abroad to save the long drive upto Glasgow and was always busy. Maybe not cost effective now?!
Not to mention missing the M6 nightmare."
Just love the M6, if we travel on it its at night now. |
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