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Smart motorways
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By (user no longer on site) 23 weeks ago
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"They’re now putting the hard shoulders back because shock horror narrower lanes and no shoulder causes some horrible accidents. "
Not according to to the news says they are not building any more but nothing about shutting the ones we already have |
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By (user no longer on site) 23 weeks ago
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As a Coach driver I’ve witnessed and seen some horrific accidents because of these smart motorways. Worst idea I’ve seen. I’m glad the government have stopped the plans to build more but unfortunately the ones that are already in play won’t be reversed back to the hard shoulder |
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By *ockforplay66Man 23 weeks ago
Southampton/isle of wight/ everywhere |
Worst decision by the Highways Agency and Department of Transport in decades. I spent 20 years policing motorways, and the accidents I dealt with on motorways that did have a hard shoulder were bad enough, the ones without are 10 times worse.
Although, as an extra note, it’s not just down to the smart motorways. People driving standards have fallen considerably in the last decade in my view. Even now, I spend a lot of time on motorways, and the number of people that drive at 65 in the middle lane or worse, lane 3 or 4 when there is nothing else about is just mind boggling |
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By *DW1983Man 23 weeks ago
Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield |
I first came across the concept many years ago in Germany of using the hard shoulder as an extra lane when there was congestion and speeds were slower. In my (limited) experience it worked well. But the default position with that is 'fail safe' - unless you're specifically told you can use it, you stay off the hard shoulder.
Most of the ones in Britain are the opposite. The hard shoulder is replaced by a traffic lane, and therefore the default position is you can use it (at any speed) unless told not to, which requires drivers to see and heed the warnings.
I'm not against them in principle, but I think they've been badly implemented. The German way seems much safer.
Important to remember too that there are many, many miles of non-smart motorway and dual carriageway that are also 70mph roads that don't have hard shoulders - you're just as likely to break down between laybys on the A90 or A34 yet no one is campaigning loudly for them to be closed or a hard shoulder to be added.
So often when I drive on some of the busiest 4-lane motorways, though, HGVs are in lane 1, everyone else is pootling along in lane 3, with those overtaking in lane 4. Driving standards have a huge part to play too, and so many people seem completely oblivious to what's going on around them. |
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They stress me and I don't stress easily
I tend to stay in the left at all times for some reason I think I'll be safer if there is a breakdown
I almost go into a trancelike state - until I am off the 'smart' motorway and on something that feels safer....
Calling something smart - doesn't make it so.
They are death to the motorist |
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Just so dumb. Mosr of the time looks like someone is sitting in front of a screen pressing random buttons and speed limits with absolutely no connection to reality whatsoever. They seem quite dangerous to me |
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By *bi HaiveMan 23 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
I like them. If people actually learned how to use them properly they'd work much better.
Strangely nobody complains about the risks of breaking down on dual carriageways with the same speed limit and no hard shoulders......  |
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By (user no longer on site) 23 weeks ago
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"They stress me and I don't stress easily
I tend to stay in the left at all times for some reason I think I'll be safer if there is a breakdown
I almost go into a trancelike state - until I am off the 'smart' motorway and on something that feels safer....
Calling something smart - doesn't make it so.
They are death to the motorist"
You are actually driving to the rules of the road then. The inside lane ( LEFT) is the only lane you should be driving in theoretically unless stated otherwise. The middle and outside lanes are only meant to be used for overtaking  |
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"I like them. If people actually learned how to use them properly they'd work much better.
Strangely nobody complains about the risks of breaking down on dual carriageways with the same speed limit and no hard shoulders...... "
But is not actually true because you know that is coming. It's the sudden and random nature of it that is the issue. |
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"They stress me and I don't stress easily
I tend to stay in the left at all times for some reason I think I'll be safer if there is a breakdown
I almost go into a trancelike state - until I am off the 'smart' motorway and on something that feels safer....
Calling something smart - doesn't make it so.
They are death to the motorist
You are actually driving to the rules of the road then. The inside lane ( LEFT) is the only lane you should be driving in theoretically unless stated otherwise. The middle and outside lanes are only meant to be used for overtaking "
Fuck me...... all these years driving and I never knew that |
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By (user no longer on site) 23 weeks ago
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"They stress me and I don't stress easily
I tend to stay in the left at all times for some reason I think I'll be safer if there is a breakdown
I almost go into a trancelike state - until I am off the 'smart' motorway and on something that feels safer....
Calling something smart - doesn't make it so.
They are death to the motorist
You are actually driving to the rules of the road then. The inside lane ( LEFT) is the only lane you should be driving in theoretically unless stated otherwise. The middle and outside lanes are only meant to be used for overtaking
Fuck me...... all these years driving and I never knew that "
I just make sure im always overtaking |
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Driving standards have dropped in the past 10 years
As a retired hgv driver I'm glad i retired
Have seen some very horrific accidents on smart motorways because people don't seem to be paying attention
The smart motorways around the midlands a Luton work well using the hard shoulders when it busy
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By *bi HaiveMan 23 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I like them. If people actually learned how to use them properly they'd work much better.
Strangely nobody complains about the risks of breaking down on dual carriageways with the same speed limit and no hard shoulders......
But is not actually true because you know that is coming. It's the sudden and random nature of it that is the issue. "
On a dual carriageway you'd have no idea about an obstruction or broken down vehicle ahead. No idea if there was a need to reduce speed for safety. No idea if you needed to leave the road and take a diversion due to a closure.
Smart motorways? Massive signs above telling you all you need to know.  |
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"They stress me and I don't stress easily
I tend to stay in the left at all times for some reason I think I'll be safer if there is a breakdown
I almost go into a trancelike state - until I am off the 'smart' motorway and on something that feels safer....
Calling something smart - doesn't make it so.
They are death to the motorist
You are actually driving to the rules of the road then. The inside lane ( LEFT) is the only lane you should be driving in theoretically unless stated otherwise. The middle and outside lanes are only meant to be used for overtaking
Fuck me...... all these years driving and I never knew that
I just make sure im always overtaking "
I was just being sarky after my highway code lesson ..... |
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"Smart motorway dumb idea"
I agree but also agree with others who have said that driving standards have fallen.
There is a special place in hell for those who dont keep left on motorways. The 3rd lane is my lane and i wont leave it for any reason drivers cause so much traffic behind them, no point having 4 lanes if you sit in the 3rd one for the entire journey.
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"I like them. If people actually learned how to use them properly they'd work much better.
Strangely nobody complains about the risks of breaking down on dual carriageways with the same speed limit and no hard shoulders......
But is not actually true because you know that is coming. It's the sudden and random nature of it that is the issue.
On a dual carriageway you'd have no idea about an obstruction or broken down vehicle ahead. No idea if there was a need to reduce speed for safety. No idea if you needed to leave the road and take a diversion due to a closure.
Smart motorways? Massive signs above telling you all you need to know. "
You must obviously like them and have different experiences to what I encounter daily and that's fair enough. |
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I have worked building them and previously working on the motorway maintenance. I hate them the hard shoulder it there to protect road users emergency service and the carriageway. I think it's the worst decision and has to be reversed as soon as possible |
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"Smart motorway dumb idea
I agree but also agree with others who have said that driving standards have fallen.
There is a special place in hell for those who dont keep left on motorways. The 3rd lane is my lane and i wont leave it for any reason drivers cause so much traffic behind them, no point having 4 lanes if you sit in the 3rd one for the entire journey.
"
Oh I totally agree driving standards have dropped ...too many bells and whistles and distractions on modern cars |
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By *ockforplay66Man 23 weeks ago
Southampton/isle of wight/ everywhere |
"Wonder how many people know it is now a driving offence to drive in lane 2 when the inside lane is clear "
It has always been an offence, it is just now an offence that can be dealt with by Fixed Penalty Notice, whereas previously it could only be dealt with by reporting for summons |
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"Not everyone is smart enough to use them."
They're horribly unsafe for disabled people. Am I supposed to get out and get my wheelchair out in a live lane, if I break down? I know I'm a goner if I break down on one of them. I can't "go left" and climb out of the passenger seat etc. |
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By *DW1983Man 23 weeks ago
Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield |
"Wonder how many people know it is now a driving offence to drive in lane 2 when the inside lane is clear "
I'd suggest very few people are guilty of this. Most stick to lane 3 and 4...
Some people above mentioned the signs. In theory, they should be great but besides the fact that people need to pay attention to them (and they're ignored just as much on traditional motorways), they're so often wrong that people don't believe them when they're right. (Something else I find causes confusion is that sometimes after a slower speed limit, you get a national speed limit sign, sometimes the next gantry is just blank. Can I speed up? Should I speed up? Is it not working? Is the limit back to 70?... some people assume so, some people don't). |
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"Not everyone is smart enough to use them.
They're horribly unsafe for disabled people. Am I supposed to get out and get my wheelchair out in a live lane, if I break down? I know I'm a goner if I break down on one of them. I can't "go left" and climb out of the passenger seat etc. "
Don’t even start on if you got young babies / kids strapped in back seats as well |
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"Not everyone is smart enough to use them.
They're horribly unsafe for disabled people. Am I supposed to get out and get my wheelchair out in a live lane, if I break down? I know I'm a goner if I break down on one of them. I can't "go left" and climb out of the passenger seat etc.
Don’t even start on if you got young babies / kids strapped in back seats as well "
Yes, I've got one of those too. Either she dies with me or we chance her crossing over the barrier on her own and she makes it. She's a sensible 7yo. I hope never to have to make these decisions. |
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"They’re now putting the hard shoulders back because shock horror narrower lanes and no shoulder causes some horrible accidents.
Not according to to the news says they are not building any more but nothing about shutting the ones we already have "
They are adjusting some of them and putting in emergency refugees.
I lived through the roadworks to make it smart, then upgrade the barriers and now putting in emergency refuges  much faster to take the train.. When they are running  |
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By *CLM87Woman 23 weeks ago
Derbyshire |
I work in highways and apart from a 4 year hiatus to Gas (never again) since I was 19.
When they first said they were bringing it in, with the original idea of all lane running during congested times and hard shoulder when not, I discussed it with my dad (who is also highways) and some colleagues and we said it could be dangerous if any of the IT to back it up went down.
Then the ones with no hard appeared and then we all said wtaf and I can't remember which smart person in power said it... but it was "hard shoulders are dangerous, so we are getting rid of them" well yes they are dangerous.. but not as dangerous as being stuck in lane 1.
Then they decided to save money and extend the space between laybys from I believe a few hundred meters to every 2 miles in places. The other difficulty with this, is there is no space to get up to speed and so when exiting highways have to be contacted to put on a lane closure.
Also most recovery companies won't attend until highways act and that has been known to be hours (have a few friends who work in recovery).
To compound this... the radar detection system does not pick up small cars, so if you breakdown in an mx5, kit car etc... you need to hope you can get out safely and call in to the police or highways before its too late.
There was recently a 6 vehicle pile up on the m6 because all of the detection software, cctv and communication with the gantries went down (for at least a few hours) and so they couldn't do anything.
Slightly off subject but not.
Most full electric cars when they have a fault will lock the drive train... so no matter what lane you are in, you will be stuck there like a sitting duck and without the hard shoulder... no one will be there to help you quickly and you have to just hope that the cctv/radar picks you up quickly enough before you get smashed into.
I am still surprised that no one has been done for corporate manslaughter over the smart motorways. |
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In principle a good idea.
In practice lethal.
The problem is many drivers simply do not follow gantry sign instructions.
Everyday (I drive for a living) I see lane closure and speed limits being ignored by drivers.
I see a sign instructing you to move over to lanes 3 and 4 with a speed limit of 40mph, I do so. Every time drivers will race up closed lanes 1 and 2, travelling at 70mph to jump to the front of the forming queue.
Every single time they endanger their lives and the lives of those either broken down in lanes 1 and 2, or those working in lanes 1 and 2.
For me that act should be an automatic 6 points on the licence and a hefty fine for dangerous driving.
Don't start me off about lane 2 hogs or the 45mph lane 1 turd who thinks he's driving safely because he slowed down to use his mobile phone. |
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"Don't start me off about lane 2 hogs or the 45mph lane 1 turd who thinks he's driving safely because he slowed down to use his mobile phone."
Usually an older C/Sclass or 5series in lane 3 around here. Blacked out windows, cruising at 50.
And an entire motorway of people unsure what to do. |
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"I’ve recently retired from lorry driving after 35 years and seen some terrible accidents on smart motorways , turning the hard shoulder into a running lane was a big mistake "
I’m a PCV (PSV in old money) driver a few years ago I was bringing 50 passengers back to the West Midlands my vehicle had a charging fault at Worcester south jcn on m5, might have got home but was potential to lose all electrics when battery went flat(inc lights gears engine stopping) I came off at Worcester north, imagine the carnage being stuck on side of the motorway with 50 intoxicated people, with no lights etc in the pouring rain, I dropped them at pub by the rugby ground, I had a bollocking off my boss because they had to provide taxis for them who said I should have carried on, Smart motorway = stupid idea
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"I work in highways and apart from a 4 year hiatus to Gas (never again) since I was 19.
When they first said they were bringing it in, with the original idea of all lane running during congested times and hard shoulder when not, I discussed it with my dad (who is also highways) and some colleagues and we said it could be dangerous if any of the IT to back it up went down.
Then the ones with no hard appeared and then we all said wtaf and I can't remember which smart person in power said it... but it was "hard shoulders are dangerous, so we are getting rid of them" well yes they are dangerous.. but not as dangerous as being stuck in lane 1.
Then they decided to save money and extend the space between laybys from I believe a few hundred meters to every 2 miles in places. The other difficulty with this, is there is no space to get up to speed and so when exiting highways have to be contacted to put on a lane closure.
Also most recovery companies won't attend until highways act and that has been known to be hours (have a few friends who work in recovery).
To compound this... the radar detection system does not pick up small cars, so if you breakdown in an mx5, kit car etc... you need to hope you can get out safely and call in to the police or highways before its too late.
There was recently a 6 vehicle pile up on the m6 because all of the detection software, cctv and communication with the gantries went down (for at least a few hours) and so they couldn't do anything.
Slightly off subject but not.
Most full electric cars when they have a fault will lock the drive train... so no matter what lane you are in, you will be stuck there like a sitting duck and without the hard shoulder... no one will be there to help you quickly and you have to just hope that the cctv/radar picks you up quickly enough before you get smashed into.
I am still surprised that no one has been done for corporate manslaughter over the smart motorways."
I broke down in my car on M1 between jcn 29 and 28 most terrifying moment ever was a delay of almost 5min before the lane closure sign lit up , Highways agency came and dragged me to Tibshelf services where I fixed my car in 10min and was on my way, fact is there is no way of controlling where you breakdown and pot luck if you can get to one of the refuges, in these days of Health and Safety I don’t know how it’s allowed |
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By (user no longer on site) 23 weeks ago
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Absolutely ridiculous invention- I’m glad they are not doing anymore, bloody lethal, especially on dark unlit sections when there’s heavy rain and major spray, recipe for disaster |
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I’ve come to a halt 6 times on a motorway during the 40 years I’ve been driving.
1. Accident in the outside lane pre smart motorways, nowhere to go to avoid it and no way of getting the the hard shoulder
2. Tyre blow out pre smart motoway, managed to get to chevrons at an on ramp.
3. Electrical fault, managed to get to the hard shoulder
4. Ran out of fuel on smart motorway, luckily it was near a junction which I was able to reach.
5. Clutch hose blew in outside lane of smart motorway, no way of getting to a refuge area. Highways agency towed me there after about 10 mins of blocking the lane.
6. Engine overheated due to a leak, there was a hard shoulder.
I think they have helped ease congestion at peak periods. There are some stretches of motorway that are all but impossible to widen, such as the elevated sections of the M6 through the West Midlands.
The “smart” aspect where the speed of traffic is automatically controlled and slowed down when theres congestion etc is good but I think there should be more refuse areas. |
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have on M6 by me - its supposed to reduce the congestion but it never does. People don't know how to drive on motorways, they have never been taught. You get the people sitting in lane 2 or 3 and refuse to change lane, its like they are glued to the lane - then the assholes that lane jump to overtake and undertake.
yea all a nightmare - hopefully they will pass a bill for new drivers to have to have more lessons and that will include motorways and how to correctly drive on them. |
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By *ugby 123Couple 23 weeks ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
Dumb idea.
It is dangerous for anyone to get out of the car on a live lane if they have broken down plus if someone has broken down the response is not always instant getting those signs working to alert people.
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I'd prefer to get driving standards increased, as a core goal. Smart motorways are limited by the appallingly bad driving standards . We certainly need to increase capacity too, as driven vehicles aren't going away. |
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"Dumb idea.
It is dangerous for anyone to get out of the car on a live lane if they have broken down plus if someone has broken down the response is not always instant getting those signs working to alert people.
"
terrified when I broke down looked out the driverside mirror and thought I’ve got to get out of here so I climbed over the passenger side something I couldn’t have done if I was a larger person, had to google highways agency for the number and tell them where I was seemed to take a lifetime I had visions of a serious pile up, |
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"have on M6 by me - its supposed to reduce the congestion but it never does. People don't know how to drive on motorways, they have never been taught. You get the people sitting in lane 2 or 3 and refuse to change lane, its like they are glued to the lane - then the assholes that lane jump to overtake and undertake.
yea all a nightmare - hopefully they will pass a bill for new drivers to have to have more lessons and that will include motorways and how to correctly drive on them."
My issue with always having to get back to the 1st lane is this. If I'm doing 70 mph ( the legal limit ) and a distance ahead of me is a slower moving lorry , etc. I think it's safer to stay in the middle lane and only when the first it totally clear should I move back over.
My reasons are that every manoeuvre carries a slight risk , so cutting down on them is a good thing.
Secondly, whoever is wanting to overtake me as I'm doing 70 mph is breaking the law. |
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"have on M6 by me - its supposed to reduce the congestion but it never does. People don't know how to drive on motorways, they have never been taught. You get the people sitting in lane 2 or 3 and refuse to change lane, its like they are glued to the lane - then the assholes that lane jump to overtake and undertake.
yea all a nightmare - hopefully they will pass a bill for new drivers to have to have more lessons and that will include motorways and how to correctly drive on them.
My issue with always having to get back to the 1st lane is this. If I'm doing 70 mph ( the legal limit ) and a distance ahead of me is a slower moving lorry , etc. I think it's safer to stay in the middle lane and only when the first it totally clear should I move back over.
My reasons are that every manoeuvre carries a slight risk , so cutting down on them is a good thing.
Secondly, whoever is wanting to overtake me as I'm doing 70 mph is breaking the law."
it’s those who piss about in the 2nd lane at 50mph going slower than HGVs that are the real problem Which leads to hgvs undertaking or tailgating , like you I don’t see a problem traveling at 70mph in lane 2, also I always try to be in lane 2 well before a junction so it makes it easier for traffic joining the motorway, if everyone used common sense there wouldn’t any problems (sadly this is lacking in a large part of the population) |
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"have on M6 by me - its supposed to reduce the congestion but it never does. People don't know how to drive on motorways, they have never been taught. You get the people sitting in lane 2 or 3 and refuse to change lane, its like they are glued to the lane - then the assholes that lane jump to overtake and undertake.
yea all a nightmare - hopefully they will pass a bill for new drivers to have to have more lessons and that will include motorways and how to correctly drive on them."
A lot of people I see lane hogging passed their test a very long time ago. No-one on the road has done mandatory motorway driving training, it's only ever formed part of PassPlus. |
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"have on M6 by me - its supposed to reduce the congestion but it never does. People don't know how to drive on motorways, they have never been taught. You get the people sitting in lane 2 or 3 and refuse to change lane, its like they are glued to the lane - then the assholes that lane jump to overtake and undertake.
yea all a nightmare - hopefully they will pass a bill for new drivers to have to have more lessons and that will include motorways and how to correctly drive on them."
Doesnt matter how much training you have. If you have stationary cars in a lane with other vehicles doing 70...accidents are going to happen and people will die. Some wankers in the mot bought the PowerPoint presentation saying all you needed was billions of pounds to install flaky unproven tech and suddenly cars will never break down and everyone will be perfect drivers. |
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By (user no longer on site) 23 weeks ago
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Are they linked to Apple Maps or something? Seriously the most useless change to motorways that has changed nothing. In fact I’d risk it and say they’ve gotten worse and more over crowded over the 10 yrs it’s taken them to make them smart …. |
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By *aiseiMan 23 weeks ago
Birmingham |
Completely overdone. The lower part of the M42 has gantries every few hundred meters…..what can possibly have changed in that time at 70mph that warrants more info screens? 
Every few miles / ahead of each junction would have been fine. |
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Interesting programme on BBC1 right now.
You are 3 times more likely to be killed if you breakdown on a motorway without a hard shoulder than one with a hard shoulder.
I would have thought that was evidence enough to reinstate the hard shoulder |
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Absolute waste of money that no-one asked for, just smacks of the old boy network looking after mate's with Juicy contracts worth billions.
Death traps
4 years it took to upgrade the M27 it was barely open and they started roadworks again just over a year later and it's now down to 3 lanes again for another 2 years, work they should have done during the "upgrade" since said upgrades there's been a number of very bad collision's a few fatal.
The AA or RAC won't attend broken down vehicles on smart motorways unless they have traffic officers in attendance and the lane is closed.
Hardly smart is it.
Now they are going to be spending many hundreds of millions adding more rescue area's!!
The motorway is only 16 miles long FFS. |
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When we they accept that they just don't work?
We had an increase of 6 deaths in 18 months once they changed the stretch by us.
Now more misery while they now add more refuge points.
It's like a lottery, you just pray that if you break down you can make it into one. |
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nothing smart about them at all.
A hard shoulder is for an emergency , thats not a wee , or to take a call cos ya wifes having a baby , etc etc , an emergency , ie , your cars not safe to continue
anyway, when stopped on the hard shoulder your not allowed to stay in your vehicle, wind rain snow pitch black you have to move 200 yards away from your vehicle and position yourself behind the safety barrier.
the reason is , is theres a good chance your vehicle will get hit on the hard shoulder so they want you out of it and away from it .
so assuming the above is about true/accurate how can they say a smart motorway is safe |
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"I noticed the sign on the gantry by Birmingham airport had spelled queue with only one e the other week.
I mean jeez guys.
Is this a genuine true story?
Of course.
Why would you doubt me!
"
I've just never seen it so I'm always a bit suspicious. Some people lie to sound cool |
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So the Panorama programme that just aired basically has said if the tech is working and maintained then it is a good system.
Unfortunately the system routinely breaks down. Power outages cameras pointing at the sky/fields/floor. Nobody is told where the system doesnt work even when it is a planned maintenance thing so basically everybody agrees they are deathtraps.
As the campaigners slogans goes, The only smart motorway is one with a hard shoulder |
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"I noticed the sign on the gantry by Birmingham airport had spelled queue with only one e the other week.
I mean jeez guys.
Is this a genuine true story?
Of course.
Why would you doubt me!
I've just never seen it so I'm always a bit suspicious. Some people lie to sound cool"
Driving on the m42 is about as far from cool as a person can get. |
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"I noticed the sign on the gantry by Birmingham airport had spelled queue with only one e the other week.
I mean jeez guys.
Is this a genuine true story?
Of course.
Why would you doubt me!
I've just never seen it so I'm always a bit suspicious. Some people lie to sound cool
Driving on the m42 is about as far from cool as a person can get."
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