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Are you standing on the fence?
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By *hagTonight OP Man 41 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
With this I mean with everything that is going on in the world, headlines, narratives, you sort of a bit unsure whether all the stuff that comes out of different shows, news, alternative media, you name it is all just you know poppycock, or is there elements to it that you think well, it could be but you are not sure.
Maibe the government wouldnt be as mean and as nefarious as perhaps the characters makes out to be, well, maybe there isnt such a big agenda, you go down the street and see how everything all looks pretty normal and maybe it is just a bit of overplay we had in the recent years or are you somebody who is perhaps open to ideas but is scared of looking?
What kind of person are you, are you torn between two options and can you change what you believe in and admit you are wrong?
I would say that I am someone who is between the 2 options and yes. I can change in what I believe in, if I feel it is wrong, what I like to do is to look from both points of views and then decide, usually the truth is somewhere in the middle  |
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I've heard of fence sitting.
I don't take sides. It's as simple as.
Side taking, thinking all of life is a binary matter, us v them, i'm right you're wrong.....
That's when all arguments start from the playground to the world arena.
Demanding there is a God
Insisting on straight jacketed gender roles
Going crazy when someone paints their house pink or orange
It's my ball ....
Yada Yada...
|
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I honestly don't have the time, the energy or the inclination to second guess every decision or thought process.
Therefore whatever my initial feelings are on something that will be my default position and I genuinely can't be arsed giving it any more thought.
There are many subjects where the media and various influencers tell me I should educate myself on but if isn't something I'm facing on a daily basis I'm not interested.
Many of those topics are discussed here every day and I have no wish to reassess or reeducate so I ignore them.
It's not even a case of ignorance being bliss because that suggests I'm turning a blind eye to something or am hiding from it.
The truth is that I don't have an opinion because I have no experience of something and don't wish to have so I'm not sitting on the fence either. |
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"I honestly don't have the time, the energy or the inclination to second guess every decision or thought process.
Therefore whatever my initial feelings are on something that will be my default position and I genuinely can't be arsed giving it any more thought.
There are many subjects where the media and various influencers tell me I should educate myself on but if isn't something I'm facing on a daily basis I'm not interested.
Many of those topics are discussed here every day and I have no wish to reassess or reeducate so I ignore them.
It's not even a case of ignorance being bliss because that suggests I'm turning a blind eye to something or am hiding from it.
The truth is that I don't have an opinion because I have no experience of something and don't wish to have so I'm not sitting on the fence either."
I’m a bit like this. If things don’t affect me I don’t tend to give them much thought. Maybe a bit selfish but I’ve got enough to think about. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 41 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
I don't succumb to conspiracy theories, notions of hidden agendas and social media/news scare stories.
If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance.
If it's a subject I've no concern over or I think is just media led BS then I won't give it time or energy.
I don't watch the news. I have no TV licence. |
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"I don't succumb to conspiracy theories, notions of hidden agendas and social media/news scare stories.
If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance.
If it's a subject I've no concern over or I think is just media led BS then I won't give it time or energy.
I don't watch the news. I have no TV licence. "
I think this is a great answer because it could be written by almost anyone. I agree with huge parts of it. Like Obi I don’t think I subscribe to conspiracy theories but then neither do people who subscribe to conspiracy theories.
The telling key phrase for me is “generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance”. I know what is meant because I will likely do the same - I have a world view as well. Problem is that I can easily imagine that the side of the fence I am likely to be on is the opposite side to Obi. I believe I am rational and logical thinking. Obi believes the same. We follow the same process and yet we can reach diametrically different outcomes. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 41 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I don't succumb to conspiracy theories, notions of hidden agendas and social media/news scare stories.
If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance.
If it's a subject I've no concern over or I think is just media led BS then I won't give it time or energy.
I don't watch the news. I have no TV licence.
I think this is a great answer because it could be written by almost anyone. I agree with huge parts of it. Like Obi I don’t think I subscribe to conspiracy theories but then neither do people who subscribe to conspiracy theories.
The telling key phrase for me is “generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance”. I know what is meant because I will likely do the same - I have a world view as well. Problem is that I can easily imagine that the side of the fence I am likely to be on is the opposite side to Obi. I believe I am rational and logical thinking. Obi believes the same. We follow the same process and yet we can reach diametrically different outcomes."
Rational and logical thinking is why I don't fall prey to conspiracies or media bullshit.
The side of the fence I feel will be more linked to personal values and views on all things from public/government policy, political leanings, social aspirations and previous wider life experiences.
But then for me those are also linked to logic and rational thought. With a healthy dose of empathy and inclusion thrown in for good measure. |
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"I don't succumb to conspiracy theories, notions of hidden agendas and social media/news scare stories.
If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance.
If it's a subject I've no concern over or I think is just media led BS then I won't give it time or energy.
I don't watch the news. I have no TV licence.
I think this is a great answer because it could be written by almost anyone. I agree with huge parts of it. Like Obi I don’t think I subscribe to conspiracy theories but then neither do people who subscribe to conspiracy theories.
The telling key phrase for me is “generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance”. I know what is meant because I will likely do the same - I have a world view as well. Problem is that I can easily imagine that the side of the fence I am likely to be on is the opposite side to Obi. I believe I am rational and logical thinking. Obi believes the same. We follow the same process and yet we can reach diametrically different outcomes.
Rational and logical thinking is why I don't fall prey to conspiracies or media bullshit.
The side of the fence I feel will be more linked to personal values and views on all things from public/government policy, political leanings, social aspirations and previous wider life experiences.
But then for me those are also linked to logic and rational thought. With a healthy dose of empathy and inclusion thrown in for good measure. "
I totally get it and it wasn’t a dig  .
I find it really interesting that values and logic are easily intertwined for everyone. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 41 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I don't succumb to conspiracy theories, notions of hidden agendas and social media/news scare stories.
If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance.
If it's a subject I've no concern over or I think is just media led BS then I won't give it time or energy.
I don't watch the news. I have no TV licence.
I think this is a great answer because it could be written by almost anyone. I agree with huge parts of it. Like Obi I don’t think I subscribe to conspiracy theories but then neither do people who subscribe to conspiracy theories.
The telling key phrase for me is “generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance”. I know what is meant because I will likely do the same - I have a world view as well. Problem is that I can easily imagine that the side of the fence I am likely to be on is the opposite side to Obi. I believe I am rational and logical thinking. Obi believes the same. We follow the same process and yet we can reach diametrically different outcomes.
Rational and logical thinking is why I don't fall prey to conspiracies or media bullshit.
The side of the fence I feel will be more linked to personal values and views on all things from public/government policy, political leanings, social aspirations and previous wider life experiences.
But then for me those are also linked to logic and rational thought. With a healthy dose of empathy and inclusion thrown in for good measure.
I totally get it and it wasn’t a dig .
I find it really interesting that values and logic are easily intertwined for everyone. "
I know, don't worry.
I have no issue with people that have different views to me. Would be naive to think otherwise. And I like a good debate or discussion (call it an argument even) when people can clearly express how they've gone through a thought process to reach a conclusion.
It's when they have no words to back up a viewpoint I sometimes struggle.
My brain doesn't work well with 'just beacuse' or 'beacuse I can' style responses.  |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 41 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"I've heard of fence sitting.
I don't take sides. It's as simple as.
Side taking, thinking all of life is a binary matter, us v them, i'm right you're wrong.....
That's when all arguments start from the playground to the world arena.
Demanding there is a God
Insisting on straight jacketed gender roles
Going crazy when someone paints their house pink or orange
It's my ball ....
Yada Yada...
"
That is good that you you dont take sides, those are also good points too |
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"With this I mean with everything that is going on in the world, headlines, narratives, you sort of a bit unsure whether all the stuff that comes out of different shows, news, alternative media, you name it is all just you know poppycock, or is there elements to it that you think well, it could be but you are not sure.
Maibe the government wouldnt be as mean and as nefarious as perhaps the characters makes out to be, well, maybe there isnt such a big agenda, you go down the street and see how everything all looks pretty normal and maybe it is just a bit of overplay we had in the recent years or are you somebody who is perhaps open to ideas but is scared of looking?
What kind of person are you, are you torn between two options and can you change what you believe in and admit you are wrong?
I would say that I am someone who is between the 2 options and yes. I can change in what I believe in, if I feel it is wrong, what I like to do is to look from both points of views and then decide, usually the truth is somewhere in the middle "
I love debate. It informs and educates me.
What I've learned in life is that if I'm receiving personal attacks from those claiming to be of the right, and personal attacks from those claiming to be of the left, then by default I'm obviously of the center. |
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"If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance."
This to me is troubling. If you always know in advance which side of the fence you sit, it suggests a predetermined position and therefore your research is more likely to be an exercise in cognitive reassurance not questioning. Such a process can lead to bubble thinking and therefore political tribalism.
As someone else said, nobody who espouses genuine conspiracy theory believes they are a conspiracy theorist, for they believe their biased research shows them the truth, and doesn't just reinforce their predetermined position.
I seek out the views that challenge my default position. I seek out views that challenge the challenger position. Then my position adapts to the new information.
Purely as an example I can state a position that both sides of the trans fence hate on me for...
1) A woman is an adult human female
2) A transwoman is an adult human transfemale
3) A transgender woman is an adult human male who crossdresses
4) Gender is not sex
5) Gender is not fluid
6) Sex is not binary
7) Sex is not fluid
8) Gender Expression is fluid
9) Sexuality is fluid
10) Homosexual, Bisexual, Heterosexual are socially constructed classifications
11) People are simply "sexual"
Those of Conservative and conservative political persuasions hate on me as a "wokie"
Those of a "progressive" political persuasion hate on me as a homophobe/transphobe
Those of a theological political persuasion hate on me as a "satanist"
I sit here and go... yep... centrist liberalist thinker. |
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I find the sensation of 'sitting on the fence' is often an indication of the inadequacy of the binary opposition to comprehensively attend to the subject at hand.
Consequently, the assumption: 'the truth lies in the middle.' is something one must bring into question. What are the boundaries of the systemic analysis? What assumptions have been made? What factors have been ignored? What is the agenda of the person(s) carrying out the analysis and what affiliations do they have? How objective are they able to be?
If one is to pick a side without asking these questions then I would say it's as arbitrary as flipping a coin. |
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By (user no longer on site) 41 weeks ago
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There is no fence!
When people can comprehend the fact that they’ve created their own imaginary fence, then it’ll become a fuck load easier to garden hop on the regular!  
Ego makes us pre-judge our position based on what we’d like others to think of us and slowly sucks us in to the cyclone that is a tribal mindset….  |
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By (user no longer on site) 41 weeks ago
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"There is no fence!
When people can comprehend the fact that they’ve created their own imaginary fence, then it’ll become a fuck load easier to garden hop on the regular!
Ego makes us pre-judge our position based on what we’d like others to think of us and slowly sucks us in to the cyclone that is a tribal mindset…. "
I could teach you but I’d have to charge…  |
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"There is no fence!
When people can comprehend the fact that they’ve created their own imaginary fence, then it’ll become a fuck load easier to garden hop on the regular!
Ego makes us pre-judge our position based on what we’d like others to think of us and slowly sucks us in to the cyclone that is a tribal mindset…. "
That's why I have made it my life's work to destroy people's egos. For the good of humanity. |
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"There is no fence!
When people can comprehend the fact that they’ve created their own imaginary fence, then it’ll become a fuck load easier to garden hop on the regular!
Ego makes us pre-judge our position based on what we’d like others to think of us and slowly sucks us in to the cyclone that is a tribal mindset….
That's why I have made it my life's work to destroy people's egos. For the good of humanity."
Hard to destroy an immovable object |
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I'm pretty opinionated and unlikely to be on the fence. It's frustrating that too many seem to want to get a false balance, halfway between bullshit and truth though. Get balance, but get reality, not some confected blend of reality and propaganda |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 41 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
"With this I mean with everything that is going on in the world, headlines, narratives, you sort of a bit unsure whether all the stuff that comes out of different shows, news, alternative media, you name it is all just you know poppycock, or is there elements to it that you think well, it could be but you are not sure.
Maibe the government wouldnt be as mean and as nefarious as perhaps the characters makes out to be, well, maybe there isnt such a big agenda, you go down the street and see how everything all looks pretty normal and maybe it is just a bit of overplay we had in the recent years or are you somebody who is perhaps open to ideas but is scared of looking?
What kind of person are you, are you torn between two options and can you change what you believe in and admit you are wrong?
I would say that I am someone who is between the 2 options and yes. I can change in what I believe in, if I feel it is wrong, what I like to do is to look from both points of views and then decide, usually the truth is somewhere in the middle
I love debate. It informs and educates me.
What I've learned in life is that if I'm receiving personal attacks from those claiming to be of the right, and personal attacks from those claiming to be of the left, then by default I'm obviously of the center."
That is good and same here. I also like a debate too |
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By (user no longer on site) 41 weeks ago
|
"I honestly don't have the time, the energy or the inclination to second guess every decision or thought process.
Therefore whatever my initial feelings are on something that will be my default position and I genuinely can't be arsed giving it any more thought.
There are many subjects where the media and various influencers tell me I should educate myself on but if isn't something I'm facing on a daily basis I'm not interested.
Many of those topics are discussed here every day and I have no wish to reassess or reeducate so I ignore them.
It's not even a case of ignorance being bliss because that suggests I'm turning a blind eye to something or am hiding from it.
The truth is that I don't have an opinion because I have no experience of something and don't wish to have so I'm not sitting on the fence either."
Much the same here……I only have so many metaphorical fucks to give in any particular day, and they get consumed rapidly.
Sometimes I allow them to be spent on the wrong things for too long, usually to my detriment. |
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By (user no longer on site) 41 weeks ago
|
"If I'm interested in a subject that I've no detailed knowledge of I'll 'do my own research' (but not in a YouTube video/podcast/Facey meme type way) before deciding on a viewpoint, but generally I'll always know which side of a fence I'm likely to be on in advance.
This to me is troubling. If you always know in advance which side of the fence you sit, it suggests a predetermined position and therefore your research is more likely to be an exercise in cognitive reassurance not questioning. Such a process can lead to bubble thinking and therefore political tribalism.
As someone else said, nobody who espouses genuine conspiracy theory believes they are a conspiracy theorist, for they believe their biased research shows them the truth, and doesn't just reinforce their predetermined position.
I seek out the views that challenge my default position. I seek out views that challenge the challenger position. Then my position adapts to the new information.
Purely as an example I can state a position that both sides of the trans fence hate on me for...
1) A woman is an adult human female
2) A transwoman is an adult human transfemale
3) A transgender woman is an adult human male who crossdresses
4) Gender is not sex
5) Gender is not fluid
6) Sex is not binary
7) Sex is not fluid
8) Gender Expression is fluid
9) Sexuality is fluid
10) Homosexual, Bisexual, Heterosexual are socially constructed classifications
11) People are simply "sexual"
Those of Conservative and conservative political persuasions hate on me as a "wokie"
Those of a "progressive" political persuasion hate on me as a homophobe/transphobe
Those of a theological political persuasion hate on me as a "satanist"
I sit here and go... yep... centrist liberalist thinker."
Another stellar post! |
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My default position is to look at a scenario and identify the protagonists and antagonists in the scenario first of all.
I'll then look to see who holds power, and who does not. Is there an imbalance ?
Is there suffering/harm ?
In which direction does the suffering/harm flow ?
Who is being oppressed, and who is oppressing ?
Why are they being oppressed ?
Would I be happy if I was in their position ?
Look for the harm, and who is conducting it, and why.
In almost every situation, it's always one group with power oppressing another in some way, shape or form.
From this lens, it's pretty difficult NOT to sit on a fence. |
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