FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Swastika. It's all about the context
Swastika. It's all about the context
Jump to: Newest in thread
Footage of a member of the public grilling a police officer during a large scale march in London. She complains about a mrcher allegedly displaying a swastika and the officer explains that he does not know the context. The lady is my impressed. Is it all about the context,? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
From Wikipedia...
It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back at least 11,000 years. The swastika (gammadion, fylfot) symbol became a popular symbol of luck in the Western world in the early 20th century, as it had long been in Asia, and was often used for ornamentation...
So yes context can be important and the woman in the video obviously wasn't aware of its history. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The trouble is most associate it as just a Nazi symbol. Whereas it isn’t. Different cultures and religions use it. The Nazi’s appropriated it.
I think the police officer was ambushed by a very passionate protester, and was terrified of saying the wrong thing.
So he said the wrong thing.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism."
^^^ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism.
^^^"
I'm old enough to remember seeing them daubed alongside the letters NF. Didn't like them then, don't like them now. But people were probably just wishing others health and happiness. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
To be fair, Tom has seen similar symbols currently displayed by one peaceful religion..
The Chief of Police should be proud of this officer who reports say will not face sanctions by the police department called Internal Affairs, which investigates it's own and is despised by many policemen
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
|
If you're on a march with a swastika in the UK you're probably a nazi. If you're looking at a map of Japan, it's probably a Buddhist temple. So yes, it is an ancient symbol, and yes, context matters, but it's got a very clear meaning in the west.
(Try not to land up marching with nazis) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eavilMan 26 weeks ago
Stalybridge |
"Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism."
The Indian Embassy in central London has a large Swastika (amongst other symbols) on its wall. Don't think most people have even noticed it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Considering the Met police get pretty comprehensive training on what symbols far-right groups use, one can only assume that the police officer himself supports the group and didn't want to do anything about it.
Either that or he's extraordinarily thick and doesn't know what the word 'context' means. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So a storm in an eggcup..
Nothing to see and move along..
Quite the opposite.
Yet another example of the Met potentially not vetting properly before hiring.
With all due respect... Nonsense
"
Why was the post above you talking nonsense? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ty31Man 26 weeks ago
NW London |
"Considering the Met police get pretty comprehensive training on what symbols far-right groups use, one can only assume that the police officer himself supports the group and didn't want to do anything about it.
Either that or he's extraordinarily thick and doesn't know what the word 'context' means."
I think it was being displayed as part of a Palestine demonstration not a far right march.
It's clearly offensive and upsetting to Jewish people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So a storm in an eggcup..
Nothing to see and move along..
Quite the opposite.
Yet another example of the Met potentially not vetting properly before hiring.
With all due respect... Nonsense
Why was the post above you talking nonsense?"
What has vetting got to do with it exactly? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've yet to see a picture of the offending swastika so it's a bit difficult to what context it was used in."
Well to be fair the lady did say that she saw it in the crowd.. further down the line..
If the officer cold not see it then what can he do . ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68708981
In a strange coincidence the German footballe shirt no 44 is said to resemble the SS insignia of the German army. Reports that the manufacturer may not allow this shirt. It's all over the news
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
|
The word swastika itself derives from the Sanskrit svastika, meaning "conducive to well-being".
An extract from History Extra online, I believe sums it up very well:-
"The answer, although not a neat one, may be that there will always be two utterly conflicting interpretations of the swastika, both of which are part of our history, present and future: one representing the worst of humanity and the other symbolising the best." |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've yet to see a picture of the offending swastika so it's a bit difficult to what context it was used in.
Well to be fair the lady did say that she saw it in the crowd.. further down the line..
If the officer cold not see it then what can he do . ?"
The more I look at this, especially with her saying "are you filming this" just smacks of another person just wanting their 5 minutes of you tube fame. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The lady is on breakfast radio today. Well spoken but perhaps a little misguided, an American Jewish lady living in London who is pursuing a career in journalism. She seemed to say the march was taken over by the left because Jeremy, we won the arguement but not the election, Corbyn was speaking there. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
|
"Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism."
Hitler destroyed the use & meaning of the Swastika....For me it represents Nazi Germany & I do believe "anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism", unfortunately. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Yes it is an ancient symbol coopted by National Socialists in the 20th century. In that the officer is correct that context is important.
The context in this case was a march by pro-palestinians against the Jewish state of Isreal.
Displaying a Swastika at such a march, in support of Palestinians and against Jews, would therefore clearly show an action likely to cause harm or distress as it did in the woman complaining. It was clearly an action contrary to the law, and the officers should have taken action. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
|
Usually when used as a religious symbol it is square set and when used as a hate symbol it is diamond set.
However, given that most racists are idiots, that's not something you can rely on. The background being red and white certainly adds to it, but if it's hand-drawn, it may not have backgrounds.
Most uses in Europe and the Anglosphere are fascist. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Just for clarity, Tom fully accepts that this was a provocative depiction of the symbol. The American lady said that the image was on a poster that had been handed out by a group at a previous march and had a picture of Biden and Sunak on the poster also. It appears from the radio interview that the lady complained to several individual police officers who kept fobbing her off and told her to find another policeman. When she finally filmed the sergeant, the person was long gone. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hiversMan 26 weeks ago
Dinas Powys |
"The trouble is most associate it as just a Nazi symbol. Whereas it isn’t. Different cultures and religions use it. The Nazi’s appropriated it.
"
Sadly that's pretty much par for the course with Nazis/White supremacists. Lots of ancient symbols of fortune and power were misappropriated  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.
I’m not one for criticising the Police as I know the tough job they do. However the Officer should’ve at least followed the member of public to check out their complaint. Just like that failed actor if this display was to cause outrage or even encourage violence then he should’ve at least checked out if there was even a swastika present at that demonstration. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.
I’m not one for criticising the Police as I know the tough job they do. However the Officer should’ve at least followed the member of public to check out their complaint. Just like that failed actor if this display was to cause outrage or even encourage violence then he should’ve at least checked out if there was even a swastika present at that demonstration. "
The police officer was posted to a beat for a reason and just cannot wander off on a wild goose chase. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.
I’m not one for criticising the Police as I know the tough job they do. However the Officer should’ve at least followed the member of public to check out their complaint. Just like that failed actor if this display was to cause outrage or even encourage violence then he should’ve at least checked out if there was even a swastika present at that demonstration.
The police officer was posted to a beat for a reason and just cannot wander off on a wild goose chase. "
He’s not a member of the Kings Guards 
He had options to deal with a complaint from a member of the public. From informing a higher rank of the complaint, radioing other officers to see if anyone else had seen the offending symbol to getting permission to leave that area.
I have seen the video and I work closely with the Police, so in general I’m a supporter of their work. In this case however I don’t think he did as much as he could to resolve the situation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.
I’m not one for criticising the Police as I know the tough job they do. However the Officer should’ve at least followed the member of public to check out their complaint. Just like that failed actor if this display was to cause outrage or even encourage violence then he should’ve at least checked out if there was even a swastika present at that demonstration.
The police officer was posted to a beat for a reason and just cannot wander off on a wild goose chase.
He’s not a member of the Kings Guards
He had options to deal with a complaint from a member of the public. From informing a higher rank of the complaint, radioing other officers to see if anyone else had seen the offending symbol to getting permission to leave that area.
I have seen the video and I work closely with the Police, so in general I’m a supporter of their work. In this case however I don’t think he did as much as he could to resolve the situation. "
You have an opinion and I respect both you and you opinion. I can see moe than one side and will leave it that and wish you well  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
|
I've just watched the video now.
My god that woman was trying her hardest to argue for the sake of argument. She wanted to bandy around the term antisemitism and apply it for the sakes of application. She wasn't upset at the symbol (which nobody seems to have a record of art a highly publicised event), she just wanted to disrupt events that day. Clearly she doesn't support the cause so what else was she doing there?
The symbol itself isn't illegal. And there are 1.7 billion Hindus and Buddhists for whom the symbol means something loving.
Leave the poor officer to finish his Cappuccino. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *batMan 26 weeks ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
The swastika isn’t illegal in itself. Otherwise you’d have to ban a lot of war films. Therefore context is important.
But its use could indeed breach legislation. At a political march, involving many Jews, I’d guess it wasn’t a historical reenactment!
Were they trying to cause harassment, alarm or distress to people? Or were they likening the current politics within the state of Israel to behaviour similar to the Nazis? Or something else?
Best thing to do for the police is go and find out. The police officer didn’t need to personally go and look for it, but somebody should have.
Why on earth didn’t the police officer simply use his radio to speak to his control room, inform other officers about it, and they could take what ever action was justified, proportionate, legal and necessary if they saw the swastika.
Not good policing.
Gbat |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The swastika isn’t illegal in itself. Otherwise you’d have to ban a lot of war films. Therefore context is important.
But its use could indeed breach legislation. At a political march, involving many Jews, I’d guess it wasn’t a historical reenactment!
Were they trying to cause harassment, alarm or distress to people? Or were they likening the current politics within the state of Israel to behaviour similar to the Nazis? Or something else?
Best thing to do for the police is go and find out. The police officer didn’t need to personally go and look for it, but somebody should have.
Why on earth didn’t the police officer simply use his radio to speak to his control room, inform other officers about it, and they could take what ever action was justified, proportionate, legal and necessary if they saw the swastika.
Not good policing.
Gbat "
I new we could rely on GBAT to give balance on this. Spot on. Even if he pretended to use his radio it would of at least given a better impression. Mind you. There is more to this story than meets the eye...and make no mistake |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The swastika isn’t illegal in itself. Otherwise you’d have to ban a lot of war films. Therefore context is important.
But its use could indeed breach legislation. At a political march, involving many Jews, I’d guess it wasn’t a historical reenactment!
Were they trying to cause harassment, alarm or distress to people? Or were they likening the current politics within the state of Israel to behaviour similar to the Nazis? Or something else?
Best thing to do for the police is go and find out. The police officer didn’t need to personally go and look for it, but somebody should have.
Why on earth didn’t the police officer simply use his radio to speak to his control room, inform other officers about it, and they could take what ever action was justified, proportionate, legal and necessary if they saw the swastika.
Not good policing.
Gbat "
From the little I’ve seen of it from Tom’s link, it did look like he’d been put on the spot with being filmed etc. I got the impression he didn’t know what was the right thing to say, so instead of keeping quiet he said the wrong thing.
The Police are under a big spotlight at the moment as to their behaviour and actions and I get the feeling this was at the forefront of his mind, rather than the concerned citizens concern.
I say that, but he might have just been a really shit police officer who was on his coffee break and couldn’t be arsed.
But if someone started recording me and made a big thing about recording me, I imagine I’d get a bit flustered too. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'd be interested to know the reaction had the woman started waving the St George flag.
Nobody would recognise it.. it's a purple cross now apparently "
I quite like the Purple Cross.. I mean, plenty of others have changed our flag. Didn't Ukip had a purple Union Jack at one point? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
