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Should military service be mandatory?
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"Why would we want a military full of people who didn't want to be in it?" something about discipline and teaching the younguns about the real world through cruelty. The 50s called and they want their bullshit back. | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either." I don't know how I'd fund this, but it would be easier than funding military service - I went on a few camping trips with school which involved some minor hiking, sleeping in tents, cooking our own meals from scratch etc. If I were going to do anything along these lines - I'm not saying I would - it would be that. A week or two. It would be easier to fund (not that I think it's sensible in this economy), less traumatic for the kids who really aren't suited to this sort of thing (some exceptions would still have to be made), and give kids a taste without an enormous commitment or fucking up the military with a bunch of people who don't want to be there. | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either." Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'   | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.' "('Does' mindfulness ffs | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.' "You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right? | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.' "Yes, that's exactly what we need to make society better. Teaching kids how to do violence in ways we approve of. what can possibly go wrong  | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?"Mindfulness does too  | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. I don't know how I'd fund this, but it would be easier than funding military service - I went on a few camping trips with school which involved some minor hiking, sleeping in tents, cooking our own meals from scratch etc. If I were going to do anything along these lines - I'm not saying I would - it would be that. A week or two. It would be easier to fund (not that I think it's sensible in this economy), less traumatic for the kids who really aren't suited to this sort of thing (some exceptions would still have to be made), and give kids a taste without an enormous commitment or fucking up the military with a bunch of people who don't want to be there. " Yup it’d be good for kids to get that experience as I know they can’t always in scouts and duke of edinburgh. Using the military for funding and education would be ok as well. They’re always trying to get folk into civi work after. There’s plenty budget for it if system was more sensible but it’s something missing for a lot of kids. | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. I don't know how I'd fund this, but it would be easier than funding military service - I went on a few camping trips with school which involved some minor hiking, sleeping in tents, cooking our own meals from scratch etc. If I were going to do anything along these lines - I'm not saying I would - it would be that. A week or two. It would be easier to fund (not that I think it's sensible in this economy), less traumatic for the kids who really aren't suited to this sort of thing (some exceptions would still have to be made), and give kids a taste without an enormous commitment or fucking up the military with a bunch of people who don't want to be there. " The Duke of Edinburgh award does similar I think | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. I don't know how I'd fund this, but it would be easier than funding military service - I went on a few camping trips with school which involved some minor hiking, sleeping in tents, cooking our own meals from scratch etc. If I were going to do anything along these lines - I'm not saying I would - it would be that. A week or two. It would be easier to fund (not that I think it's sensible in this economy), less traumatic for the kids who really aren't suited to this sort of thing (some exceptions would still have to be made), and give kids a taste without an enormous commitment or fucking up the military with a bunch of people who don't want to be there. The Duke of Edinburgh award does similar I think" Yes. At least when I went through it was something that not everyone could afford - and when I was the right age, I wasn't in a state school. In a world where I wanted to teach kids the kind of military adjacent stuff that people might want kids to know, I'd make it much easier, and state subsidised. (Again, not saying that this is a useful way to spend taxes - just more useful/ beneficial/ economical than chucking entire age cohorts into the military) | |||
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"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too "I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
"Ach... done it again
Didn't mean to write 'Dobyou', natch  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
"Not particularly, no. Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in. We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance. If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive. | |||
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"Now that I'm 67, absolutely. Yes. Call the bastards up." "I'm no longer at risk, so let's get other people killed or traumatised" lovely | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive."
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now that I'm 67, absolutely. Yes. Call the bastards up." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive.
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
"Are schools fit for purpose? I don't know. I'm not involved in them. To what extent is lack of discipline really an issue, and to what extent is it newspapers trying to sell copies (or get clicks) to people who want to congratulate themselves on being better than the youth of today, whether or not they were actually better than the youth of today? People were complaining about the millennials in the same way, that we'd never grow up, blah blah, and so far as we enter our 30s and 40s civilisation has not collapsed. To what extent is misbehaviour at school a product of deprivation, and one that should be solved by making sure that children are safe and fed, rather than shipping them off to be further fucking traumatised? | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive.
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
Are schools fit for purpose? I don't know. I'm not involved in them.
To what extent is lack of discipline really an issue, and to what extent is it newspapers trying to sell copies (or get clicks) to people who want to congratulate themselves on being better than the youth of today, whether or not they were actually better than the youth of today?
People were complaining about the millennials in the same way, that we'd never grow up, blah blah, and so far as we enter our 30s and 40s civilisation has not collapsed.
To what extent is misbehaviour at school a product of deprivation, and one that should be solved by making sure that children are safe and fed, rather than shipping them off to be further fucking traumatised?"
Have to say, I agree with your last comments 100%.
But I maintain my own: because humanity is inherently violent  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive.
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
Are schools fit for purpose? I don't know. I'm not involved in them.
To what extent is lack of discipline really an issue, and to what extent is it newspapers trying to sell copies (or get clicks) to people who want to congratulate themselves on being better than the youth of today, whether or not they were actually better than the youth of today?
People were complaining about the millennials in the same way, that we'd never grow up, blah blah, and so far as we enter our 30s and 40s civilisation has not collapsed.
To what extent is misbehaviour at school a product of deprivation, and one that should be solved by making sure that children are safe and fed, rather than shipping them off to be further fucking traumatised?
Have to say, I agree with your last comments 100%.
But I maintain my own: because humanity is inherently violent "This is why we have police and courts. If you break the social contract, you lose money and/ or liberty. It's cheaper and more effective to get to people before they're fucked up. If (fictional) little Timmy is suffering problems at home, better to intervene at school (where behaviour problems and other signs are likely to be noticed by staff, who are obliged to report). Throwing bigger Timmy into the military after not helping him when he was a little kid might result in criminal Timmy who now knows how to handle himself with weapons. No one wants to get to criminal Timmy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive.
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
Are schools fit for purpose? I don't know. I'm not involved in them.
To what extent is lack of discipline really an issue, and to what extent is it newspapers trying to sell copies (or get clicks) to people who want to congratulate themselves on being better than the youth of today, whether or not they were actually better than the youth of today?
People were complaining about the millennials in the same way, that we'd never grow up, blah blah, and so far as we enter our 30s and 40s civilisation has not collapsed.
To what extent is misbehaviour at school a product of deprivation, and one that should be solved by making sure that children are safe and fed, rather than shipping them off to be further fucking traumatised?
Have to say, I agree with your last comments 100%.
But I maintain my own: because humanity is inherently violent
This is why we have police and courts.
If you break the social contract, you lose money and/ or liberty.
It's cheaper and more effective to get to people before they're fucked up.
If (fictional) little Timmy is suffering problems at home, better to intervene at school (where behaviour problems and other signs are likely to be noticed by staff, who are obliged to report). Throwing bigger Timmy into the military after not helping him when he was a little kid might result in criminal Timmy who now knows how to handle himself with weapons.
No one wants to get to criminal Timmy."Peace and out sister 
Can't argue with an idealist  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive.
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
Are schools fit for purpose? I don't know. I'm not involved in them.
To what extent is lack of discipline really an issue, and to what extent is it newspapers trying to sell copies (or get clicks) to people who want to congratulate themselves on being better than the youth of today, whether or not they were actually better than the youth of today?
People were complaining about the millennials in the same way, that we'd never grow up, blah blah, and so far as we enter our 30s and 40s civilisation has not collapsed.
To what extent is misbehaviour at school a product of deprivation, and one that should be solved by making sure that children are safe and fed, rather than shipping them off to be further fucking traumatised?
Have to say, I agree with your last comments 100%.
But I maintain my own: because humanity is inherently violent
This is why we have police and courts.
If you break the social contract, you lose money and/ or liberty.
It's cheaper and more effective to get to people before they're fucked up.
If (fictional) little Timmy is suffering problems at home, better to intervene at school (where behaviour problems and other signs are likely to be noticed by staff, who are obliged to report). Throwing bigger Timmy into the military after not helping him when he was a little kid might result in criminal Timmy who now knows how to handle himself with weapons.
No one wants to get to criminal Timmy.
Peace and out sister
Can't argue with an idealist "Ok. You have fun with that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"probably would be good school type activity. More so for the training though. Don’t think it should be framed as military service either. Yeah, fair points. Arguably though, the discipline horse has bolted the stable in this country?! Think of the modern pearl-clutchers... "My child doesn't do indoctrinated violence. He/She doe mindfulness. And pilates. How very dare you.'
You know regular practice of something like Pilates takes discipline right?
Mindfulness does too
I do know that thanks!
My - larger - point being: humanity is inherently violent. Dobyou accept that or do you not?
Lack of discipline in schools now is achieving exactly what?!
Not on here for a 'square go' btw
Not particularly, no.
Humanity may or may not be inherently violent. This is why we have police to deal with that bullshit, and prisons to put them in.
We also have increasingly automated military forces operated at a distance.
If you want to introduce young adults to types of behaviour that might get them locked up, by all means. I don't know why the fuck you would though. Keeping someone in prison is fucking expensive.
So. Again. Lack of discipline in schools now... is achieving exactly what?
How did it come to this - and where do we go from here?
Are schools fit for purpose? I don't know. I'm not involved in them.
To what extent is lack of discipline really an issue, and to what extent is it newspapers trying to sell copies (or get clicks) to people who want to congratulate themselves on being better than the youth of today, whether or not they were actually better than the youth of today?
People were complaining about the millennials in the same way, that we'd never grow up, blah blah, and so far as we enter our 30s and 40s civilisation has not collapsed.
To what extent is misbehaviour at school a product of deprivation, and one that should be solved by making sure that children are safe and fed, rather than shipping them off to be further fucking traumatised?
Have to say, I agree with your last comments 100%.
But I maintain my own: because humanity is inherently violent
This is why we have police and courts.
If you break the social contract, you lose money and/ or liberty.
It's cheaper and more effective to get to people before they're fucked up.
If (fictional) little Timmy is suffering problems at home, better to intervene at school (where behaviour problems and other signs are likely to be noticed by staff, who are obliged to report). Throwing bigger Timmy into the military after not helping him when he was a little kid might result in criminal Timmy who now knows how to handle himself with weapons.
No one wants to get to criminal Timmy.
Peace and out sister
Can't argue with an idealist
Ok. You have fun with that."Aye. You too  | |||
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"If the goal is to instill discipline, we could just have everyone go through military training instead of actually going to war. Back in India in my university, we had to choose between a month camp of military training or living in a village doing social service, sleeping on the floor of a government school in the village during peak summer without a fan. I felt they were both great choices to learn discipline and some perspective. Not a big fan of forcing people to war, unless there is an attack on the country itself which could change things."
Sounds like a classic character building experience. Agree with your comments 100%. | |||
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"Yes minister nailed this years ago Sir Humphrey: “You know what happens: nice young lady comes up to you. Obviously you want to create a good impression, you don’t want to look a fool, do you? So she starts asking you some questions: Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think there is a lack of discipline in our Comprehensive schools?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think they respond to a challenge?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?” Bernard Woolley: “Oh…well, I suppose I might be.” Sir Humphrey: “Yes or no?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “.So alternatively the young lady can get the opposite result.” Bernard Woolley: “How?” Sir Humphrey: “Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Are you worried about the growth of armaments?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think there is a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think it is wrong to force people to take up arms against their will?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” " Is the right term... 'ROFL' here? | |||
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"Yes minister nailed this years ago Sir Humphrey: “You know what happens: nice young lady comes up to you. Obviously you want to create a good impression, you don’t want to look a fool, do you? So she starts asking you some questions: Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think there is a lack of discipline in our Comprehensive schools?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think they respond to a challenge?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?” Bernard Woolley: “Oh…well, I suppose I might be.” Sir Humphrey: “Yes or no?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “.So alternatively the young lady can get the opposite result.” Bernard Woolley: “How?” Sir Humphrey: “Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Are you worried about the growth of armaments?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think there is a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Do you think it is wrong to force people to take up arms against their will?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Sir Humphrey: “Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?” Bernard Woolley: “Yes” Is the right term... 'ROFL' here? "Still in my mind the best written English comedy series ever | |||
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"Again: - People who propose this as a solution have a tragically skewed perception of the problem. - The solution they're proposing is vague, impractical, unaffordable and cruel. For this reason, general compulsory national service is not a serious political prospect, even the hardest of the hard right don't dwell on it because they know it's even less realistic than reintroducing the death penalty, and so it remains little more than the authoritarian masturbation fantasy of bitter unreconstructed men who for some reason can't tolerate the sight of young people enjoying the freedom that previous generations fought SPECIFICALLY for them to have." Yeah, it's another iteration of "Bring Back 'Angin'" The death penalty either violates an individual's legal rights, or is far more expensive than life imprisonment. The evidence suggesting that the death penalty is a deterrent is also somewhat lacking. The notion of executing people sure feels nice to a certain subset of society though. | |||
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"Again: - People who propose this as a solution have a tragically skewed perception of the problem. - The solution they're proposing is vague, impractical, unaffordable and cruel. For this reason, general compulsory national service is not a serious political prospect, even the hardest of the hard right don't dwell on it because they know it's even less realistic than reintroducing the death penalty, and so it remains little more than the authoritarian masturbation fantasy of bitter unreconstructed men who for some reason can't tolerate the sight of young people enjoying the freedom that previous generations fought SPECIFICALLY for them to have." Ooft. STRONGLY agree - 100%. So where - if anywhere - do we go from here? Really good thread btw OP (3rd/4th/5th? ) | |||
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I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
"I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Go on, give it a go. | |||
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"Again: - People who propose this as a solution have a tragically skewed perception of the problem. - The solution they're proposing is vague, impractical, unaffordable and cruel. For this reason, general compulsory national service is not a serious political prospect, even the hardest of the hard right don't dwell on it because they know it's even less realistic than reintroducing the death penalty, and so it remains little more than the authoritarian masturbation fantasy of bitter unreconstructed men who for some reason can't tolerate the sight of young people enjoying the freedom that previous generations fought SPECIFICALLY for them to have. Ooft. STRONGLY agree - 100%. So where - if anywhere - do we go from here? Really good thread btw OP (3rd/4th/5th? )"My suggestion of where to go from here is people stop talking about national service as if it were ever likely to happen. It gives the wrong people ideas. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go."Ffs
And why don't you imagine a world of peace/love/happiness/equality/fraternity/egalitarianism?
Go on, give it a go.
 | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go."Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military. I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)"You clearly said it should be mandatory. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)"Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other? Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not? | |||
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"Yes, barracks are now housing migrants. So where you going to house the homeless off the street. Besides you come out onto civvy street with no help. " Disused training barracks yes and there is a lot of help when leaving the forces although more could be done for veterans. I caveat my comment with, and this is my opinion only, that if discharged dishonourably the individual made their bed  | |||
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"Yes, barracks are now housing migrants. So where you going to house the homeless off the street. Besides you come out onto civvy street with no help. Disused training barracks yes and there is a lot of help when leaving the forces although more could be done for veterans. I caveat my comment with, and this is my opinion only, that if discharged dishonourably the individual made their bed "
Respect. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory. "Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change. | |||
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"Ffs
And why don't you imagine a world of peace/love/happiness/equality/fraternity/egalitarianism?
Go on, give it a go.
"If I take your meaning you're saying that because there are wars everyone should be a soldier. Which is a bit like saying because there are toilets everyone should be a plumber. Apologies if I'm misreading you. | |||
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"Ffs
And why don't you imagine a world of peace/love/happiness/equality/fraternity/egalitarianism?
Go on, give it a go.
If I take your meaning you're saying that because there are wars everyone should be a soldier.
Which is a bit like saying because there are toilets everyone should be a plumber.
Apologies if I'm misreading you."And because humans are inherently violent, we should teach everyone how to fight. What could possibly go wrong | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change. "I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not? | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change. "Yeah, that would still be "enforced" then wouldn't it, if those who don't exempt out are still made to do it. Unless in your view "I don't want to" is a sufficient exemption. But that's literally what we have now, so I guess not? | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?"Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
"Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine. "Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment). Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine. "Penalties and fines are LITERALLY enforcement. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?"I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice. Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving | |||
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"Ffs
And why don't you imagine a world of peace/love/happiness/equality/fraternity/egalitarianism?
Go on, give it a go.
If I take your meaning you're saying that because there are wars everyone should be a soldier.
Which is a bit like saying because there are toilets everyone should be a plumber.
Apologies if I'm misreading you."Nope. Didn't mean that at all. Thought your comment to an ex-serviceman (despite our perhaps differing opinions on the existence of that matter itself), was both sarcastic and patronising. Apologies if I'm misreading you... | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met."That’s lovely to hear and well done you. Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?
I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice.
Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving "Who would pay for 4 years of an entire age cohort being paid or at least cared for by the state? | |||
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"Ffs
And why don't you imagine a world of peace/love/happiness/equality/fraternity/egalitarianism?
Go on, give it a go.
If I take your meaning you're saying that because there are wars everyone should be a soldier.
Which is a bit like saying because there are toilets everyone should be a plumber.
Apologies if I'm misreading you.
Nope.
Didn't mean that at all.
Thought your comment to an ex-serviceman (despite our perhaps differing opinions on the existence of that matter itself), was both sarcastic and patronising.
Apologies if I'm misreading you..."Oh, right. So yes, apologies for misinterpreting your remark. To clarify though, I was indeed being sarcastic and patronising because I felt his comment was extremely small-minded. And I afford exactly the same respect to everyone regardless of their choice of job. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
"I enjoyed my time as a postgraduate student and firmly believe that my path would have been very different had I not taken that path. Doing a masters degree should be mandatory, yes? (no. god no) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing."In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm) | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Penalties and fines are LITERALLY enforcement."Tomatoes/potatoes  | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?
I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice.
Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving "I come from a naval family merchant and regular. I know that it's not all guns and cannons. However I was questioning that you said everyone who couldn't join for any reason should do four years.
I think it's pretty pointless us arguing the finer points anyway because nobody will ever change their mind on this | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)"I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing. It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces. The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate. Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?
I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice.
Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving
Who would pay for 4 years of an entire age cohort being paid or at least cared for by the state?"I’m no economist nor do I have an answer for how it would be funded but I’m sure if conflict came to our doorstep the funds would appear from thin air if needs be iMO the taxes the country pay don’t go where they should in the quantity that’s promised so it’s beyond me  | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?
I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice.
Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving
Who would pay for 4 years of an entire age cohort being paid or at least cared for by the state?
I’m no economist nor do I have an answer for how it would be funded but I’m sure if conflict came to our doorstep the funds would appear from thin air if needs be iMO the taxes the country pay don’t go where they should in the quantity that’s promised so it’s beyond me "I wager that it's an extremely stupid use of our taxes, and something we cannot afford. If people want to join the military, more power to them. Same as any other job. | |||
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"Mandatory military service is in the same category as the death penalty ie just how much power do you want to give to the state? Either is too much imo. " Even if mandatory military service just meant paperwork - absolutely not. Compulsory education until 16/18 then fuck off. | |||
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" Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
"It probably would have killed me if I was forced to join the military in my twenties. I’d rather have been convicted and sent to prison or something. I would not have enjoyed my time in the military. Just because you enjoyed something, doesn’t mean that everyone else would enjoy it, or that it would be good for other people. I enjoyed my time studying for a PhD. It made me a better person and (I believe) has improved the world. Doesn’t mean I think everyone should do a PhD. In fact, I think that would be a bloody stupid idea. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
I enjoyed my time as a postgraduate student and firmly believe that my path would have been very different had I not taken that path.
Doing a masters degree should be mandatory, yes? (no. god no)"It’s quite possible that your path having not done what you chose to do could have been different but you chose your path and you are what you are thanks to it and are awesome | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Penalties and fines are LITERALLY enforcement.
Tomatoes/potatoes "No I'm sorry this in an important distinction. If you don't properly understand the difference between mandatory and voluntary then maybe you could in fact stand to re-examine your beliefs about what people you've never met should be forced to do. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
I enjoyed my time as a postgraduate student and firmly believe that my path would have been very different had I not taken that path.
Doing a masters degree should be mandatory, yes? (no. god no)
It’s quite possible that your path having not done what you chose to do could have been different but you chose your path and you are what you are thanks to it and are awesome "Thanks. So why is my path ok to choose and yours must be mandated to everyone? | |||
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"So if joining the military is mandatory but not enforced, what would happen if a person called up told the military to go fuck themselves?" Then said person would be sent back to where they come from with a pat on the back wishing them all the best in their future prospects. | |||
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"So if joining the military is mandatory but not enforced, what would happen if a person called up told the military to go fuck themselves? Then said person would be sent back to where they come from with a pat on the back wishing them all the best in their future prospects. " Then it's not mandatory, or the mandate is meaningless. It's a bit like saying (DISCLAIMER I AM NOT SAYING ANY ARMED FORCES KILL PEOPLE) that not committing murder is mandatory, but we won't punish you if you do it. The mandate then means nothing. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?
I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice.
Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving
I come from a naval family merchant and regular. I know that it's not all guns and cannons. However I was questioning that you said everyone who couldn't join for any reason should do four years.
I think it's pretty pointless us arguing the finer points anyway because nobody will ever change their mind on this "I didn’t mean to suggest that anyone who couldn’t join should do 4 years but only those who can. But yes this debate, like many, is futile because of individual opinions. But it’s got to hear others opinions | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
You clearly said it should be mandatory.
Indeed I did but not enforced, everyone of age should be recruited shit bust then during the process those who can’t join for various reasons such as medical, mental health, ability or psychological reasons should be enlisted for a minimum of 4 years. It’s my opinion on ops subject and it’ll never change.
I think its pretty clear that nobody is going to change their opinion on this matter
Am I right in understanding that everyone will have to do four years whether they're suited to it or not?
I’m no expert but beside reasons that an individual should not or could not join (medical, ability etc etc) then I strongly feel 4 years would be suffice.
Not all military personally go to WAR or FIGHT abroad, a lot help within the country backfilling services such as ambulance drivers, fire persons, riot control, nurses, doctors, post persons and many more at home roles while serving
I come from a naval family merchant and regular. I know that it's not all guns and cannons. However I was questioning that you said everyone who couldn't join for any reason should do four years.
I think it's pretty pointless us arguing the finer points anyway because nobody will ever change their mind on this
I didn’t mean to suggest that anyone who couldn’t join should do 4 years but only those who can.
But yes this debate, like many, is futile because of individual opinions.
But it’s got to hear others opinions "Well I think it's pretty clear that there are two opinions. For and against and never the twain shall meet | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin."Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
"This makes no sense at all. You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it. If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced. | |||
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" Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
It probably would have killed me if I was forced to join the military in my twenties. I’d rather have been convicted and sent to prison or something.
I would not have enjoyed my time in the military.
Just because you enjoyed something, doesn’t mean that everyone else would enjoy it, or that it would be good for other people.
I enjoyed my time studying for a PhD. It made me a better person and (I believe) has improved the world. Doesn’t mean I think everyone should do a PhD. In fact, I think that would be a bloody stupid idea."Woah woah woah, I didn’t mean that because I enjoyed it everyone should I just think (IMHO) mandatory service would be a good thing. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced."He also said people should be allowed to refuse without penalty. I'm starting to see a correlation between people's opinions on national service and their ability to string together a coherent argument. | |||
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" Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
It probably would have killed me if I was forced to join the military in my twenties. I’d rather have been convicted and sent to prison or something.
I would not have enjoyed my time in the military.
Just because you enjoyed something, doesn’t mean that everyone else would enjoy it, or that it would be good for other people.
I enjoyed my time studying for a PhD. It made me a better person and (I believe) has improved the world. Doesn’t mean I think everyone should do a PhD. In fact, I think that would be a bloody stupid idea.
Woah woah woah, I didn’t mean that because I enjoyed it everyone should I just think (IMHO) mandatory service would be a good thing. "Please look up the meaning of the word mandatory. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Some days I find it astonishing that I managed to learn how to take care of myself, manage money (extremely well ), and become more mature without joining the military.
Indeed, from the many military people I’ve met and known (that includes living on base for six months with an ex) I am pretty sure that I take care of myself, manage money better, and am more emotionally mature than almost every single military person my age that I’ve met.
That’s lovely to hear and well done you.
Many others are just like you but I valued my time in the military and enjoyed my time and firmly believe that “for me” the path may have been much different if I didn’t take the leap.
It probably would have killed me if I was forced to join the military in my twenties. I’d rather have been convicted and sent to prison or something.
I would not have enjoyed my time in the military.
Just because you enjoyed something, doesn’t mean that everyone else would enjoy it, or that it would be good for other people.
I enjoyed my time studying for a PhD. It made me a better person and (I believe) has improved the world. Doesn’t mean I think everyone should do a PhD. In fact, I think that would be a bloody stupid idea.
Woah woah woah, I didn’t mean that because I enjoyed it everyone should I just think (IMHO) mandatory service would be a good thing. "Mandatory literally means compulsory. If you think something should be mandatory, it means you think that everyone should be forced to do it or they should be punished by law. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced."Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own "OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own "Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment."Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment.
Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory
Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted
Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this "Ah, the implied threat. "One day you'll need us and then you'll see! hahaha" No. Still fuck off. | |||
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" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?"In addition… The armed forces in the UK currently comprise of about 170k people (including reservists). There are about 750k 18 year olds in the uk. I’m assuming that means in total there are about three million young people in the UK between the ages of 18 and 22. What on earth do you propose we do with a 1666% increase in military personnel in the con try, how will we fund it, and where will we build bases and housing for them all? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?"Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. But the legalities and payment of all this debate would never come to fruition so it is opinions for and or against as a discussion alone | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?
In addition…
The armed forces in the UK currently comprise of about 170k people (including reservists).
There are about 750k 18 year olds in the uk. I’m assuming that means in total there are about three million young people in the UK between the ages of 18 and 22.
What on earth do you propose we do with a 1666% increase in military personnel in the con try, how will we fund it, and where will we build bases and housing for them all?
"Obviously they'll have to dig their own latrines and bivouacs | |||
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" anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. " Ah yes. So, income tax being beneficial to the state, literally everyone is exempt who has a job or could get a job during the time of this theoretical conscription. I mean, you didn't mean that of course. So to reiterate, what happens if people refuse to participate? | |||
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| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?
Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed.
But the legalities and payment of all this debate would never come to fruition so it is opinions for and or against as a discussion alone "Maybe we should train more diplomats and other such things to prevent war. Why venerate the military? It was good for you. I'm glad. Studying Greco-Roman iconography was beneficial for me. I'm not suggesting it'd be useful for anyone else. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Ah yes. So, income tax being beneficial to the state, literally everyone is exempt who has a job or could get a job during the time of this theoretical conscription. I mean, you didn't mean that of course. So to reiterate, what happens if people refuse to participate?" How many of these jobs are able to be joined at 18, which is when the proposed mandate would begin? | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this?" The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment.
Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory
Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted
Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this
Ah, the implied threat. "One day you'll need us and then you'll see! hahaha"
No. Still fuck off."I will gladly fuck the fuck of to fuckoffshire and when I arrive I’ll fuck off some more
But it’s not a threat in any way whatsoever I just know our armed forces are depleting daily and I do fear a day, hopefully not soon, that they may be required (shrug)
Anyway off I fuck | |||
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" Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. " Have you ever heard of NATO? | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too." I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?
Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed.
But the legalities and payment of all this debate would never come to fruition so it is opinions for and or against as a discussion alone "I think you have a rather narrow view of what would help society. Does a bricklayer building houses for low-income tenants not help society? How about a lifeguard enabling young disabled children to go swimming? What about a young actor working with women to help them overcome their trauma through performance? Or a puppy dog handler working for the Guide Dogs? Not all “help” for society comes from guns and medicine. | |||
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" anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Ah yes. So, income tax being beneficial to the state, literally everyone is exempt who has a job or could get a job during the time of this theoretical conscription. I mean, you didn't mean that of course. So to reiterate, what happens if people refuse to participate?" Firing line or Aldi | |||
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"Ffs
And why don't you imagine a world of peace/love/happiness/equality/fraternity/egalitarianism?
Go on, give it a go.
If I take your meaning you're saying that because there are wars everyone should be a soldier.
Which is a bit like saying because there are toilets everyone should be a plumber.
Apologies if I'm misreading you.
Nope.
Didn't mean that at all.
Thought your comment to an ex-serviceman (despite our perhaps differing opinions on the existence of that matter itself), was both sarcastic and patronising.
Apologies if I'm misreading you...
Oh, right.
So yes, apologies for misinterpreting your remark.
To clarify though, I was indeed being sarcastic and patronising because I felt his comment was extremely small-minded. And I afford exactly the same respect to everyone regardless of their choice of job."
Although, did ye, aye?
What about UK politicos of a certain RED/WHITE/BLUE persuasion?
Respect? Or disdain?
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" Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. Have you ever heard of NATO?" Yes and allied forces of nato would assist if the worst ever happened, which I hope never ever ever does happen but they can’t predict the future and be present and supportive if the shit hit the fan as it were | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. Have you ever heard of NATO? Yes and allied forces of nato would assist if the worst ever happened, which I hope never ever ever does happen but they can’t predict the future and be present and supportive if the shit hit the fan as it were "We certainly can't trust the USA if Trump is elected. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits "Hardly, but they chose their job eh (shrug) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits
Hardly, but they chose their job eh (shrug)"if they're mandated to do it, which you suggest, then they are not choosing. fuck all of this | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?
Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed.
But the legalities and payment of all this debate would never come to fruition so it is opinions for and or against as a discussion alone
I think you have a rather narrow view of what would help society.
Does a bricklayer building houses for low-income tenants not help society?
How about a lifeguard enabling young disabled children to go swimming?
What about a young actor working with women to help them overcome their trauma through performance?
Or a puppy dog handler working for the Guide Dogs?
Not all “help” for society comes from guns and medicine."I’m sure somewhere along the line I said etc etc and those you listed are indeed valuable to the state and economy but the list is vast and one to be decided in my imagination by power's who get payed way more than me to decide who stays and who goes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services. The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military. Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate. I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it. Each to their own
Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy?
Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed.
But the legalities and payment of all this debate would never come to fruition so it is opinions for and or against as a discussion alone
I think you have a rather narrow view of what would help society.
Does a bricklayer building houses for low-income tenants not help society?
How about a lifeguard enabling young disabled children to go swimming?
What about a young actor working with women to help them overcome their trauma through performance?
Or a puppy dog handler working for the Guide Dogs?
Not all “help” for society comes from guns and medicine.
I’m sure somewhere along the line I said etc etc and those you listed are indeed valuable to the state and economy but the list is vast and one to be decided in my imagination by power's who get payed way more than me to decide who stays and who goes "Maybe we just make it entirely optional, in the same way that it helped you? | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too." These are some very rough numbers. 59.8bn is spent on universal credit to people between 18 and state pension age (66 for this calculation). 38% of those are working and will presumably still need the universal credit. 62% of 59.8bn is 37bn. 66-18=48. 48/4=12. 37bn/12=3bn £3bn divided by the three million new recruits is about £1000 per person. How are you going to train, feed, house, and pay a fair wage to someone with a £1000 per year budget? | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment.
Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory
Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted
Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this
Ah, the implied threat. "One day you'll need us and then you'll see! hahaha"
No. Still fuck off.
I will gladly fuck the fuck of to fuckoffshire and when I arrive I’ll fuck off some more
But it’s not a threat in any way whatsoever I just know our armed forces are depleting daily and I do fear a day, hopefully not soon, that they may be required (shrug)
Anyway off I fuck "Don't you DARE off ye fuck!! Stand yer ground man | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits
Hardly, but they chose their job eh (shrug)
if they're mandated to do it, which you suggest, then they are not choosing.
fuck all of this"But your comment didn’t suggest mandated imaginary conscription but current serving personnel hopefully earning a fuckton more than persons on benefits which is incorrect until ladders are climbed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. Have you ever heard of NATO? Yes and allied forces of nato would assist if the worst ever happened, which I hope never ever ever does happen but they can’t predict the future and be present and supportive if the shit hit the fan as it were "So your solution to a slight degree of uncertainty during the safest era in known history is to force the entire population to spend four years cleaning barracks shitters in the vague hope it will enable us to fend off any future attacks which any competent contemporary military strategist would tell you will almost certainly not consist of traditional troop-based combat? Why do you think our numbers of military personnel are contracting? Do you think it's because we can't be arsed with it anymore, or is it because as one of the most experienced and advanced countries in the world in national defence, we understand that modern warfare requires fewer people? | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits
Hardly, but they chose their job eh (shrug)
if they're mandated to do it, which you suggest, then they are not choosing.
fuck all of this
But your comment didn’t suggest mandated imaginary conscription but current serving personnel hopefully earning a fuckton more than persons on benefits which is incorrect until ladders are climbed. "Benefits are designed to be the absolute bare minimum by which someone can manage to survive. Anyone who either chooses to join the military or is forced to join the military should be paid considerably more than "I can barely survive". I don't care whether people who choose to join the military are paid half of benefits or a trillion times benefits. That's their choice. What you're saying is that people should be forced to be part of a job for four years where they are earning a miniscule amount of money, delaying their higher earning potential (and potential tax payments), as well as, well, forcing them to do something they don't want to do. No one should be forced to earn a miniscule amount of money. People should be free to choose the job they want. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. Have you ever heard of NATO? Yes and allied forces of nato would assist if the worst ever happened, which I hope never ever ever does happen but they can’t predict the future and be present and supportive if the shit hit the fan as it were
So your solution to a slight degree of uncertainty during the safest era in known history is to force the entire population to spend four years cleaning barracks shitters in the vague hope it will enable us to fend off any future attacks which any competent contemporary military strategist would tell you will almost certainly not consist of traditional troop-based combat?
Why do you think our numbers of military personnel are contracting? Do you think it's because we can't be arsed with it anymore, or is it because as one of the most experienced and advanced countries in the world in national defence, we understand that modern warfare requires fewer people?"Drone Theory by Gregoire Chamayou is really worth a read on this (very) closely related subject. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment.
Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory
Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted
Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this
Ah, the implied threat. "One day you'll need us and then you'll see! hahaha"
No. Still fuck off.
I will gladly fuck the fuck of to fuckoffshire and when I arrive I’ll fuck off some more
But it’s not a threat in any way whatsoever I just know our armed forces are depleting daily and I do fear a day, hopefully not soon, that they may be required (shrug)
Anyway off I fuck
Don't you DARE off ye fuck!!
Stand yer ground man "My ground is stood and my opinion is unchanged but I’m fucked if I know how it’ll be funded, where people shall live, which state jobs escape conscription, what happens to those who can serve but say fuck off or whether mandatory or enfuckingforced
I just believe in “National Service” for want of a better meaning | |||
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"So... WAR. Shite, really, isn't it? And yet HERE we ARE
"Yeah! So let's shove all the young adults into a job they don't necessarily want, earning and paying taxes of fuck all! That'll teach them some respect and solve any of our problems! Boom! | |||
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" Why do you think we should force adults to waste four years of their life in a job that they don’t enjoy? Simply because I feel it would help society as a whole and ensure we have enough of a trained military should it be required in whichever capacity needed. Have you ever heard of NATO? Yes and allied forces of nato would assist if the worst ever happened, which I hope never ever ever does happen but they can’t predict the future and be present and supportive if the shit hit the fan as it were
So your solution to a slight degree of uncertainty during the safest era in known history is to force the entire population to spend four years cleaning barracks shitters in the vague hope it will enable us to fend off any future attacks which any competent contemporary military strategist would tell you will almost certainly not consist of traditional troop-based combat?
Why do you think our numbers of military personnel are contracting? Do you think it's because we can't be arsed with it anymore, or is it because as one of the most experienced and advanced countries in the world in national defence, we understand that modern warfare requires fewer people?"To your latter I agree, finally, but doesn’t change my opinion which brings me to the former and yes crack on | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits
Hardly, but they chose their job eh (shrug)
if they're mandated to do it, which you suggest, then they are not choosing.
fuck all of this
But your comment didn’t suggest mandated imaginary conscription but current serving personnel hopefully earning a fuckton more than persons on benefits which is incorrect until ladders are climbed.
Benefits are designed to be the absolute bare minimum by which someone can manage to survive.
Anyone who either chooses to join the military or is forced to join the military should be paid considerably more than "I can barely survive".
I don't care whether people who choose to join the military are paid half of benefits or a trillion times benefits. That's their choice.
What you're saying is that people should be forced to be part of a job for four years where they are earning a miniscule amount of money, delaying their higher earning potential (and potential tax payments), as well as, well, forcing them to do something they don't want to do.
No one should be forced to earn a miniscule amount of money. People should be free to choose the job they want. "My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must | |||
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"Last National Service personnel recruited were all born before 1st October 1939. No-one on this thread and frankly no-one I'm aware of on Fab*, has any direct experience of conscripted NS. What's the fecking obsession with it? *The oldest person I'm aware of here is just marginally too young " I know of at least one person who has done national service on this site. He is originally from a different but nearby country with a much smaller population and a small but specialist military that is very different to our own. | |||
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"Last National Service personnel recruited were all born before 1st October 1939. No-one on this thread and frankly no-one I'm aware of on Fab*, has any direct experience of conscripted NS. What's the fecking obsession with it? *The oldest person I'm aware of here is just marginally too young I know of at least one person who has done national service on this site. He is originally from a different but nearby country with a much smaller population and a small but specialist military that is very different to our own." And if the country/military you’re describing is whom I’m thinking they’re amazing people and soldiers | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must "So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you? This is incoherent. | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent."Yes, yes and more yes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent.
Yes, yes and more yes "OK. I look forward to your election manifesto. I predict that it'll be annihilated in the press. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment.
Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory
Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted
Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this
Ah, the implied threat. "One day you'll need us and then you'll see! hahaha"
No. Still fuck off.
I will gladly fuck the fuck of to fuckoffshire and when I arrive I’ll fuck off some more
But it’s not a threat in any way whatsoever I just know our armed forces are depleting daily and I do fear a day, hopefully not soon, that they may be required (shrug)
Anyway off I fuck
Don't you DARE off ye fuck!!
Stand yer ground man
My ground is stood and my opinion is unchanged but I’m fucked if I know how it’ll be funded, where people shall live, which state jobs escape conscription, what happens to those who can serve but say fuck off or whether mandatory or enfuckingforced
I just believe in “National Service” for want of a better meaning "'Drone Theory' response by Gym_And_Iced_Coffee above, to be fair, is actually a pertinent point. | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent.
Yes, yes and more yes
OK. I look forward to your election manifesto. I predict that it'll be annihilated in the press."I’m not in politics, it wasn’t my path gladly i stick to my current career gladly and collect my pension | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent.
Yes, yes and more yes
OK. I look forward to your election manifesto. I predict that it'll be annihilated in the press.
I’m not in politics, it wasn’t my path gladly i stick to my current career gladly and collect my pension "Yes, but unfortunately the only people who would be able to mandate national service are politicians, who would have to put this to the public. Some of the public expect policies to be in some ways justified or costed, which yours is not. Enjoy your pension. I'll enjoy the freedom of choice that apparently the military fought for, except when members of the military don't want us to have freedom of choice. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
I want you to try very hard to imagine a world in which just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
Go on, give it a go.
Oh I understand this option would not suit every individual for many reasons however the military across all services have a vast range of oportunities which could and would suit many and assist them in a career away from the military.
I don’t think it should be enforced on everyone but case by case basis and I also feel many/the majority may even want to sign up if all roles were available to investigate
I’d hope it would create a nicer society (shrug)
Do you know that "mandatory" and "should not be enforced" mean the opposite of each other?
Do you want it to be mandatory/ enforced, or not?
Mandatory does not mean forced it means something is compulsory.
So all persons of two genders have to join a military force between 18-30 y/o but aren’t forced.
It’s compulsory to wear a helmet on a bicycle but not everyone does, it’s compulsory to wear a seat belt but not everyone does hence no one is forced however not doing so could incur a penalty/fine.
Umm, by your definition, not murdering people is compulsory and not doing so would incur a penalty (in the form of imprisonment).
Mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
In another post I’ve said the military is more than WAR, FIGHTING and I now add MURDERING OTHERS to that list (facepalm)
I didn't say that the armed forces was murdering anyone. I was trying to explain to you why mandatory and enforced mean the same thing.
It is mandatory to not break laws. Any laws. Which may be committed by exactly zero percent of the armed forces.
The mandate (mandatory) to not break laws is felt by the ENFORCEMENT (fines, penalties, imprisonment) that follow if you do not follow the mandate.
Even if all armed forces commit no crimes ever and ever amen and are only a perfect force of good in the world, mandatory and enforced mean the same thing, or at least they're different sides of the same bloody coin.
Understood but I stay true to my original opinion. Military service should be mandatory/enforced (your coin) unless an individual can not or is not allowed to join.
This makes no sense at all.
You said everyone should be in for four years. That's mandatory, and to make that mandate work, you'd have to enforce it.
If you believe that people should have freedom of choice, it's neither mandatory nor enforced.
Ok let me try and make myself clear, I feel everyone from the age of 18 should be recruited into one of the 3 military services.
The MANDATORY terms of service should be 4 years, inc training, and the only persons to escape service will be the medically unable, the persons who are declared disabled by a medical board, persons with severe mental or psychological issues and anyone with an existing career or education that will aid the state such as doctors, nurses, public servants and whatever else is deemed as beneficial to the state outside of the military.
Anyone who can’t join due to reasons suggested should, if they desire, be offered another fitting role within the military should it be possible as not to discriminate.
I hope this makes a wee bit more sense and it’s my opinion, and possibly mine alone, and I stand by it.
Each to their own
OK, so you believe it should be mandatory, and enforced. That is what you are saying in this comment.
Mandatory = required by law or mandate; compulsory
Enforced = to make people obey a law, or to make a particular situation happen or be accepted
Intertwined in definition but not the same so yes I mean both mandatory/enforced. Either way I’d like it to be a thing although it’ll never happen until the wolves are at the door and begged for
Ps I’ve enjoyed this
Ah, the implied threat. "One day you'll need us and then you'll see! hahaha"
No. Still fuck off.
I will gladly fuck the fuck of to fuckoffshire and when I arrive I’ll fuck off some more
But it’s not a threat in any way whatsoever I just know our armed forces are depleting daily and I do fear a day, hopefully not soon, that they may be required (shrug)
Anyway off I fuck
Don't you DARE off ye fuck!!
Stand yer ground man
My ground is stood and my opinion is unchanged but I’m fucked if I know how it’ll be funded, where people shall live, which state jobs escape conscription, what happens to those who can serve but say fuck off or whether mandatory or enfuckingforced
I just believe in “National Service” for want of a better meaning
'Drone Theory' response by Gym_And_Iced_Coffee above, to be fair, is actually a pertinent point.
"I’ll add it to my kindle list intrigued thanks and thanks Gym_and_Iced_Coffee | |||
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"Terrible idea, put forward by a generation that never had to do military service. All it does is teach you one of three things depending on your character. 1) Those that are agressive and violent teaches you how to be lethal withbyour agression. 2) Teaches you how to take people shouting at you and treating you like shit. 3) Teaches you the politics the government want you to believe and not to question what your told. Basically creating a generation of either subservient lackies that will do anything whether its right or wrong. Or making people who are violent even more arseholeish. People who want to join the Army join because they want to be there. They will try their hardest. If you dont want to be there it will have a detrimental effect on the person and the Army. " I doubt the Spetsnaz will care much about the motivation for Brits joining the Army one way or the other | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals needs. But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent.
Yes, yes and more yes
OK. I look forward to your election manifesto. I predict that it'll be annihilated in the press.
I’m not in politics, it wasn’t my path gladly i stick to my current career gladly and collect my pension
Yes, but unfortunately the only people who would be able to mandate national service are politicians, who would have to put this to the public.
Some of the public expect policies to be in some ways justified or costed, which yours is not.
Enjoy your pension. I'll enjoy the freedom of choice that apparently the military fought for, except when members of the military don't want us to have freedom of choice."My way may not be justified but it’s my opinion on a subject that’ll not happen in my remaining lifetime. So please enjoy your life both on fab and in real life and have a good evening | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent.
Yes, yes and more yes
OK. I look forward to your election manifesto. I predict that it'll be annihilated in the press.
I’m not in politics, it wasn’t my path gladly i stick to my current career gladly and collect my pension
Yes, but unfortunately the only people who would be able to mandate national service are politicians, who would have to put this to the public.
Some of the public expect policies to be in some ways justified or costed, which yours is not.
Enjoy your pension. I'll enjoy the freedom of choice that apparently the military fought for, except when members of the military don't want us to have freedom of choice.
My way may not be justified but it’s my opinion on a subject that’ll not happen in my remaining lifetime.
So please enjoy your life both on fab and in real life and have a good evening "
Touché sir!
Likewise, I'm off too, to post about the new Rolling Stones album.
Don't care about the haters.
I think it's bloody good | |||
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"My choice of opinion is unchanged but you’re right that the current choosing serving personally should be paid a whole lot more but that’s not going to happen, but yes it is their choice and they’re free to leave if income is not suitable to individuals But yes national service for 4 years on pennies cleaning bogs is a must
So people should be forced to work for a tiny amount of money for four years, even though modern militaries require less people, even though people should be free to leave a job that doesn't pay enough, because... dunno, it worked for you?
This is incoherent.
Yes, yes and more yes
OK. I look forward to your election manifesto. I predict that it'll be annihilated in the press.
I’m not in politics, it wasn’t my path gladly i stick to my current career gladly and collect my pension
Yes, but unfortunately the only people who would be able to mandate national service are politicians, who would have to put this to the public.
Some of the public expect policies to be in some ways justified or costed, which yours is not.
Enjoy your pension. I'll enjoy the freedom of choice that apparently the military fought for, except when members of the military don't want us to have freedom of choice.
My way may not be justified but it’s my opinion on a subject that’ll not happen in my remaining lifetime.
So please enjoy your life both on fab and in real life and have a good evening
Touché sir!
Likewise, I'm off too, to post about the new Rolling Stones album.
Don't care about the haters.
I think it's bloody good " | |||
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"Last National Service personnel recruited were all born before 1st October 1939. No-one on this thread and frankly no-one I'm aware of on Fab*, has any direct experience of conscripted NS. What's the fecking obsession with it? *The oldest person I'm aware of here is just marginally too young I know of at least one person who has done national service on this site. He is originally from a different but nearby country with a much smaller population and a small but specialist military that is very different to our own." I'm referring to the UK and have assumed all the conversation also relates to the UK, not any other countries. Lots of other countries retain some kind of compulsory military conscription, we teach lots of students who've been through it, e.g. Singapore, South Korea etc. My Dad was one of the last British National Servicemen, having been born in June '39. | |||
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"From this thread I can only wish that the military taught some additional basics: - critical thinking - verbal reasoning - basic English and maths skills" They do all of these I definitely would not have the job I have now without all the suggested however I feel more sarcasm and belittling of which I encourage because we can’t all be as cleverer and edumacated as thee | |||
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"Yes, I think all males between the ages of 18 - 21 should serve an 18 month National Service." This . | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits "The conversation is about Mandatory military service, which is low paid. But you have no expenses since accommodation, food, heating electric etc are all paid for. | |||
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"From this thread I can only wish that the military taught some additional basics: - critical thinking - verbal reasoning - basic English and maths skills They do all of these I definitely would not have the job I have now without all the suggested however I feel more sarcasm and belittling of which I encourage because we can’t all be as cleverer and edumacated as thee "In fairness it's hard to not be sarcastic about this whole subject. The arguments in favour are so flimsy, small-minded and cruel that its one saving grace is even its proponents don't take it seriously enough to defend it with any real enthusiasm. | |||
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"So on the third thread on this, how would this be resourced? Should it be taken from the health service? Should it be taken from repairing the roads? Should it be taken from the schools? Where is there any spare money to fund this? The money would be taken from the benefit system. A huge proportion of people would no longer need to receive state support whilst they are doing their years service. I’m sure it would lead to a reduction in jobless people post-conscription too. I do hope that people in the military are paid a fuckton more than being on benefits
The conversation is about Mandatory military service, which is low paid. But you have no expenses since accommodation, food, heating electric etc are all paid for."Did you see that another poster did the sums above about how much it would cost, and how the benefits system wouldn't pay for it? | |||
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" Did you see that another poster did the sums above about how much it would cost, and how the benefits system wouldn't pay for it?" I suspect that people in favour of this would also not mind the victims - sorry, conscripts - having to endure inhumane living conditions while they're being taught to tolerate being screamed at and humiliated on a daily basis. Never did them any harm etc etc... | |||
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" Did you see that another poster did the sums above about how much it would cost, and how the benefits system wouldn't pay for it? I suspect that people in favour of this would also not mind the victims - sorry, conscripts - having to endure inhumane living conditions while they're being taught to tolerate being screamed at and humiliated on a daily basis. Never did them any harm etc etc..." There's been quite a lot of talk about the bad housing that military service people have had to endure. I suspect it probably did do them some harm. Trying to scale that up to accommodate a quarter of a million people, even only at the standard that current military staff get, would be enormously expensive. And young people deserve to live in decent housing. | |||
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" Did you see that another poster did the sums above about how much it would cost, and how the benefits system wouldn't pay for it? I suspect that people in favour of this would also not mind the victims - sorry, conscripts - having to endure inhumane living conditions while they're being taught to tolerate being screamed at and humiliated on a daily basis. Never did them any harm etc etc... There's been quite a lot of talk about the bad housing that military service people have had to endure. I suspect it probably did do them some harm. Trying to scale that up to accommodate a quarter of a million people, even only at the standard that current military staff get, would be enormously expensive. And young people deserve to live in decent housing." You want to be careful, saying young people deserve things. You'll have people here calling you a woke snowflake in no time. | |||
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" Did you see that another poster did the sums above about how much it would cost, and how the benefits system wouldn't pay for it? I suspect that people in favour of this would also not mind the victims - sorry, conscripts - having to endure inhumane living conditions while they're being taught to tolerate being screamed at and humiliated on a daily basis. Never did them any harm etc etc... There's been quite a lot of talk about the bad housing that military service people have had to endure. I suspect it probably did do them some harm. Trying to scale that up to accommodate a quarter of a million people, even only at the standard that current military staff get, would be enormously expensive. And young people deserve to live in decent housing. You want to be careful, saying young people deserve things. You'll have people here calling you a woke snowflake in no time."
Oh no, whatever shall I do! I might even begin to... hmm. No. 404 page not found. Care cannot be found at this time. | |||
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" Did you see that another poster did the sums above about how much it would cost, and how the benefits system wouldn't pay for it? I suspect that people in favour of this would also not mind the victims - sorry, conscripts - having to endure inhumane living conditions while they're being taught to tolerate being screamed at and humiliated on a daily basis. Never did them any harm etc etc... There's been quite a lot of talk about the bad housing that military service people have had to endure. I suspect it probably did do them some harm. Trying to scale that up to accommodate a quarter of a million people, even only at the standard that current military staff get, would be enormously expensive. And young people deserve to live in decent housing." It certainly did my father harm. He was healthy when he went into his national service, he had TB when he came out. He was absolutely certain it was because of the cold, damp and poorly ventilated army barrack huts where men would spend all night coughing their lungs out. He survived only because of being used as a human guinea pig for a new treatment. [overheard: Dr. A "We can't just give him the drug, it's not been properly tested and might kill him". Dr. B "If we don't try it, he'll be dead in two days anyway".] Any young men on the previous year's intake for national service who caught TB would have just died. | |||
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"The UKs military forces are currently shrinking. But some people think that millions of people should be forced to join. Where’s the money? Gbat " Nobody has yet explained that. Or why we should replace the current methods of educating, training or employing 18-25 year olds which largely work with one catch all system that would require huge investment and take large sections of the population out of the work force. | |||
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" The conversation is about Mandatory military service, which is low paid. But you have no expenses since accommodation, food, heating electric etc are all paid for." Yes, this is evidently the solution. In a world where people are literally having to sign a document when they apply for their first mortgage saying they’re willing to work past retirement age (my mortgage runs until I’m 72), let’s delay their earning and saving potential for a year years while they yomp around fields, make their beds a certain way, and injure themselves on assault courses. As an aside - I’m sure it wouldn’t cause a crisis at all when we suddenly find that the low-paid and undesirable work 18-22 year olds usually do (waiting on tables, cleaning, care work, teaching your kids sports) suddenly becomes something that older adults all have to do. Thus delaying our earning potentials even more… | |||
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"There was a survey that was released recently that asked the following question.. If Russia was attacking the UK, would you join the British Army to fight? Only 9% said that they would be willing to fight.. That is so depressing" Is it though? That’s over 4 million people. We couldn’t kit that many people out. I suspect most people realize that if Russia was attacking the UK there’s very little millions of foot soldiers could do about it because war is much more sophisticated these days. They won’t just send loads of boats with conscripts on. | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
"Do you have any idea how many ex military people end up homeless because they can’t cope in the real world and they real world struggles with ex military folk as they haven’t been living in regular society for a long time and tend to relate to people as they did in the military, | |||
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"There was a survey that was released recently that asked the following question.. If Russia was attacking the UK, would you join the British Army to fight? Only 9% said that they would be willing to fight.. That is so depressing Is it though? That’s over 4 million people. We couldn’t kit that many people out. I suspect most people realize that if Russia was attacking the UK there’s very little millions of foot soldiers could do about it because war is much more sophisticated these days. They won’t just send loads of boats with conscripts on." It's such a hilarious argument. Like, "there was a survey that asked how many Britons keep a loaded musket and a ready supply of musket-balls and dry powder to hand, and only 0.000002% said yes..." I swear these guys think if we went to war now it would still look like the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan. The days of the "meat grinder" are over, my friends, let's not lament that the MOD no longer see fit to keep an excess of troops for use as cannon-fodder, eh? | |||
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"I feel with every fibre of my being that national service should be mandatory for all citizens, or anyone wanting to become a British citizen, aged 18-30
I say this as I joined the military at 19 following leaving school at 16 with hardly any qualifications and working go nowhere kind of jobs to get funds and I’ve never looked back
It taught me how to take care of myself, manage money (badly ) and it matured me well and made me the gent I am today
I’m confident it will get some homeless and or lost/struggling people off the street, out of a hole and give them a sense of purpose and drive to achieve all they require in life.
Do you have any idea how many ex military people end up homeless because they can’t cope in the real world and they real world struggles with ex military folk as they haven’t been living in regular society for a long time and tend to relate to people as they did in the military, "No, he has no idea. Literally all he knows is he flunked out of school and couldn't find a job so the army threw him a bone and for that reason he believes every single person on God's green Earth should waste four of their best years swabbing out latrines because... Something. | |||
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"Literally all he knows is he flunked out of school and couldn't find a job so the army threw him a bone and for that reason he believes every single person on God's green Earth should waste four of their best years swabbing out latrines because... Something." Sounds like you/or your missus got fucked off a squaddie and he never called you back | |||
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"Sounds like you/or your missus got fucked off a squaddie and he never called you back " Sounds like you/your commander didn't have a coherent argument so threw in a jibe instead. Gbat | |||
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"Sounds like you/your commander didn't have a coherent argument so threw in a jibe instead. Gbat " Cheers dits! | |||
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"Continue here, any late comers, it was interesting to see the replies. I was watching a program about it and it was interesting, it was if military service should be mandatory or not. They talked about the benefits, especially for the younger ones like those who are finishing college to do a semester of 4 month of it and what it will teach them, like, being punctual, show respect, team work and having a clean room, amongst other things. I agree with them and the points they talked about. I think that it would be a good idea. What is your view about it and do you think it is a good idea, how would they implement it, should it be at the end of the term? "No | |||
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"Literally all he knows is he flunked out of school and couldn't find a job so the army threw him a bone and for that reason he believes every single person on God's green Earth should waste four of their best years swabbing out latrines because... Something. Sounds like you/or your missus got fucked off a squaddie and he never called you back "Seems weird to try that kind of jab on a swinger site. You know that people on here are comfortable with non-monogamy and NSA sex, right? You do know that, right? Or have you been getting upset when your meets don't think you're now their boyfriend? | |||
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"Sounds like you/or your missus got fucked off a squaddie and he never called you back
Seems weird to try that kind of jab on a swinger site. You know that people on here are comfortable with non-monogamy and NSA sex, right?
You do know that, right? Or have you been getting upset when your meets don't think you're now their boyfriend?"Can you please stop stalking my profile? You definitely got a thing about Soldiers! | |||
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"Are you asking me to put my life on the line to protect the royal family, the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the non Dom's, the illegal immigrants, the stinking rich who pay virtually no tax. Are you for real? Really? I fight for my family, no one else." Calm your tits! I'm not asking you to do anything! It was a survey.. but well done Brave heart, freedom and all that | |||
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