FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > People who commit suicide
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"Latter. " +1 | |||
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"Selfish and cowardly or totally in despair and can't see any other way out? We go with the latter" When I was 17 my best friend committed suicide. I've no idea why he did it. | |||
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"Very brave in my opinion!! When I was at my lowest point although I tried, I wasn't brave enough to leave others behind with the pain and questions why. " | |||
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"Been effected by this and i go with the latter also." | |||
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"Selfish and cowardly or totally in despair and can't see any other way out? We go with the latter" I would say however i think suicide bombers are the former. | |||
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"Selfish and cowardly or totally in despair and can't see any other way out? We go with the latter" Option C.. Mental health issues that (perhaps) make them believe it is the best thing to do Either way the latter and C | |||
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"Selfish and cowardly or totally in despair and can't see any other way out? We go with the latterI would say however i think suicide bombers are the former. " | |||
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"Selfish and cowardly or totally in despair and can't see any other way out? We go with the latterI would say however i think suicide bombers are the former. " Good point | |||
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"I am on the fence with this one!!" Mind you don't fall off | |||
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"I am on the fence with this one!!Mind you don't fall off " bump.... too late | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps." | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps." | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps." | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps." When someones demons are so bad there is no amount of listening and reassurance that can help..if they have sunk to this point there isn't much more anyone can do...and they wont tell anyone what they are doing they just do it. Its the ones that talk about it that want the help the ones that don't talk can see noway out | |||
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"After coming through a painful divorce Very low yet Suicide not an option , it seemed harder to make it through each day, cut out drinking and joined Samaritans to put something back from what I believed I had learned. Some very lonely unhappy souls out there, takes a very brave or temporarily Disillusioned person to take that decision. Such a tragic shame" | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps. When someones demons are so bad there is no amount of listening and reassurance that can help..if they have sunk to this point there isn't much more anyone can do...and they wont tell anyone what they are doing they just do it. Its the ones that talk about it that want the help the ones that don't talk can see noway out " samaritans are there for those people to. they are just there to listen. some people dont wat to be alone when the end comes and samaritans will be there for them to. | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps. When someones demons are so bad there is no amount of listening and reassurance that can help..if they have sunk to this point there isn't much more anyone can do...and they wont tell anyone what they are doing they just do it. Its the ones that talk about it that want the help the ones that don't talk can see noway out samaritans are there for those people to. they are just there to listen. some people dont wat to be alone when the end comes and samaritans will be there for them to." | |||
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"A good friend of mine hung himself the week before Xmas leaving behind a family including 2 daughters aged around 19 and 7 (ish) I hate to think he was in such a bad place that he couldn't see a way out apart from this. " We have had a tenant hung herself a few weeks ago leaving behind a 9 year old daughter, thing is no-one knew that she was suffering from depression, her mother is still inconsolable | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps. When someones demons are so bad there is no amount of listening and reassurance that can help..if they have sunk to this point there isn't much more anyone can do...and they wont tell anyone what they are doing they just do it. Its the ones that talk about it that want the help the ones that don't talk can see noway out " I would agree with that. Sometimes a suicide "attempt" is a cry for help in itself and not a legitimate attempt, if that makes sense. Sad either way. | |||
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"My friends body was found hanging by his 3 year old daughter. I don't know what was going through his mind, it obviously wasn't good - but I don't see that as brave, I see it as really fucking selfish and had he known how he'd be found he'd have agreed." but he didnt know...i am sorry that that happened but if you know that he wouldnt hve wanted isdaughter to find him surely that is proof that he was too far beyond rational thought? this is a really sensitive subject and please dont take this as me saying you are wrong or picking a fight, it is just my outlook on things. | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps. When someones demons are so bad there is no amount of listening and reassurance that can help..if they have sunk to this point there isn't much more anyone can do...and they wont tell anyone what they are doing they just do it. Its the ones that talk about it that want the help the ones that don't talk can see noway out " well i was one and we are told ..... never think if thay say thay are going to ..... thay will not ,, as some will ..... some you can help just being there listening and them knowing thay are not alone. | |||
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"I would agree with that. Sometimes a suicide "attempt" is a cry for help in itself and not a legitimate attempt, if that makes sense. Sad either way. " thats very true.. | |||
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"My friends body was found hanging by his 3 year old daughter. I don't know what was going through his mind, it obviously wasn't good - but I don't see that as brave, I see it as really fucking selfish and had he known how he'd be found he'd have agreed. but he didnt know...i am sorry that that happened but if you know that he wouldnt hve wanted isdaughter to find him surely that is proof that he was too far beyond rational thought? this is a really sensitive subject and please dont take this as me saying you are wrong or picking a fight, it is just my outlook on things." Oh there's no doubt he'd got himself into a bad place, and it was very out of character. But the fact is that at that point he was utterly selfish - be that beyond his control or not, it's still what he was, and in the end I can't see that as in any way brave. | |||
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"samaritans are there 24 hours a day to chat to when people get so low thay cant take no more ... when people chat get things out in the open it helps them to see more clear .. its a lonely place when feeling that low. And sitting down or phoning a person who will not judge just listen helps. When someones demons are so bad there is no amount of listening and reassurance that can help..if they have sunk to this point there isn't much more anyone can do...and they wont tell anyone what they are doing they just do it. Its the ones that talk about it that want the help the ones that don't talk can see noway out well i was one and we are told ..... never think if thay say thay are going to ..... thay will not ,, as some will ..... some you can help just being there listening and them knowing thay are not alone." Anyone like yourself who do this valuable service are in my _iew very special people. Thanks | |||
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"when my mum took her own life, she left a note and all her insurance policies, all her financial matters and the cemetery plot details all laid out for me to find. It was the least selfish thing she do for me knowing the devastation of finding her and the impact thereafter. considered whilst in total despair. " Like wise my father hung himself and had arranged everything before hand and left it all ready...He had cancer and was suffering and thought it less selfish to go how he did then to have to have us watch him suffer any more then we had to.He also made sure he would not be found by any of us and it would be emergency services. | |||
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"when my mum took her own life, she left a note and all her insurance policies, all her financial matters and the cemetery plot details all laid out for me to find. It was the least selfish thing she do for me knowing the devastation of finding her and the impact thereafter. considered whilst in total despair. Like wise my father hung himself and had arranged everything before hand and left it all ready...He had cancer and was suffering and thought it less selfish to go how he did then to have to have us watch him suffer any more then we had to.He also made sure he would not be found by any of us and it would be emergency services." That however sounds very brave | |||
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"My friends body was found hanging by his 3 year old daughter. I don't know what was going through his mind, it obviously wasn't good - but I don't see that as brave, I see it as really fucking selfish and had he known how he'd be found he'd have agreed. but he didnt know...i am sorry that that happened but if you know that he wouldnt hve wanted isdaughter to find him surely that is proof that he was too far beyond rational thought? this is a really sensitive subject and please dont take this as me saying you are wrong or picking a fight, it is just my outlook on things. Oh there's no doubt he'd got himself into a bad place, and it was very out of character. But the fact is that at that point he was utterly selfish - be that beyond his control or not, it's still what he was, and in the end I can't see that as in any way brave." no, i would never say it was a brave thing to do.a tough thing yes, the body wants to live. | |||
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"when my mum took her own life, she left a note and all her insurance policies, all her financial matters and the cemetery plot details all laid out for me to find. It was the least selfish thing she do for me knowing the devastation of finding her and the impact thereafter. considered whilst in total despair. Like wise my father hung himself and had arranged everything before hand and left it all ready...He had cancer and was suffering and thought it less selfish to go how he did then to have to have us watch him suffer any more then we had to.He also made sure he would not be found by any of us and it would be emergency services." i find that totally different Someone who is terminally ill taking their life is understandable by most people Im not saying its any easier to loose someone you love, but if someone who you thought was ok took their life you'd ask yourself forever why?... | |||
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"i've lost 2 good friends in the past year to this dreadful disease, because i truely think it is a disease, mentally. i even got one friend who has bipolar and at the moment, he questions why he wakes up each day. i can't say that it's a brave or stupid thing, as what goes through peoples head when they are that low, is a mystery. It isn't cowardly though " So true | |||
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"i've lost 2 good friends in the past year to this dreadful disease, because i truely think it is a disease, mentally. i even got one friend who has bipolar and at the moment, he questions why he wakes up each day. i can't say that it's a brave or stupid thing, as what goes through peoples head when they are that low, is a mystery. It isn't cowardly though " So true | |||
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"Hey i have never posted anything on here before but could not pass this one by . I lost my father when i was 12 . Never cryed for him until the day i had my daughter and that was 12 years later . Yes i hated him for what he had done and also for missing out on not seeing his grand daughter grow up . I think it takes alot of guts to take your own life and leave loved once behind . Yes it is hard for everyone that is left behind to deal with everything and have loads of questions of why and what could we have done to stop it . At the end of the day if someone has got it into thier minds to do it no one is going to stop them x" Nice to meet you and welcome here on the forums. And yes i bet you had 101 questions why and if only.... I know i would and felt so hurt . You must have felt allsorts. | |||
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"My daughter attempted suicide when she was 15 as a cry for help after seeing her dad ( my ex) try to strangle me. He still cant see what he did to her. She is almost 21 now and has only got her life back on track in the last year. Sometimes its a cry for help that goes too far." I tried to commit suicide when I was 15 as I was being bullied so badly... I had my arm broken because someone pushed me down the stairs... A girl told me that some guy fancied me and said he would meet me.. ofcourse he never showed up and was told who would fancy a big lump of lard... I went home and took a huge overdose.. It was more a cry for help than anything else but at that point I have never hated myself more than that day.. | |||
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"on the other hand it's totally selfish" What option do they have if “they” believe medication / counselling isn't working? | |||
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"Talking does not always help, the only time i have ever felt this low was after the death of my son, i think i can honestly say had i not had my daughter i would have killed myself, she was the only thing that kept me going, and even then i felt like she would be better off without me at times as i blamed myself for my sons death and i felt i was unfit to have a child, as a mother we feel we should be there for our kids and the fact i was powerless to help him put great guilt and pressure on me, i was under a shrink for years after and they didn't help me at all, for some things talking don't help Cowards way out? maybe, i felt i would rather be dead than face my life without him, yes that makes me selfish but at that point in my life i just didn't care about anyone else" I go with the latter too. This post struck a chord with me. My sister died of cot death and my mum almost immediately got pregnant and she said if it was not for the birth of my younger sister she would of killed herself. Even though she already had 3 children, she was so consumed with grief that she couldnt 'let us surving children in' we were only little too and didnt understand. Being utterly unconsolable, grief striken, seeing no way forward past that minute/second, being in that much pain, can lead to all rational thought going out the window, she would of rather died than live another second feeling that pain. Death is preferrable to life as life is too painful. When she had my little sister it gave her the ability to slowly start functioning again, ive always been understanding about it but when I had my own baby it really hit home with me | |||
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"Talking does not always help, the only time i have ever felt this low was after the death of my son, i think i can honestly say had i not had my daughter i would have killed myself, she was the only thing that kept me going, and even then i felt like she would be better off without me at times as i blamed myself for my sons death and i felt i was unfit to have a child, as a mother we feel we should be there for our kids and the fact i was powerless to help him put great guilt and pressure on me, i was under a shrink for years after and they didn't help me at all, for some things talking don't help Cowards way out? maybe, i felt i would rather be dead than face my life without him, yes that makes me selfish but at that point in my life i just didn't care about anyone else I go with the latter too. This post struck a chord with me. My sister died of cot death and my mum almost immediately got pregnant and she said if it was not for the birth of my younger sister she would of killed herself. Even though she already had 3 children, she was so consumed with grief that she couldnt 'let us surving children in' we were only little too and didnt understand. Being utterly unconsolable, grief striken, seeing no way forward past that minute/second, being in that much pain, can lead to all rational thought going out the window, she would of rather died than live another second feeling that pain. Death is preferrable to life as life is too painful. When she had my little sister it gave her the ability to slowly start functioning again, ive always been understanding about it but when I had my own baby it really hit home with me" | |||
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"Neither.... Each of the two choices assumes cognitive response to a rational thought process.... In the mental state where a totally irrational action is taken, the brain has produced too much / not enough of the chemicals required to make a cognitive choice..... This cerebral response is most likely the cause of many external events, the sum of which imbalances the chemistry to a point where the rational self preservation mechanism simply cannot function..... If caught in time, the "little tablets" may be enough to redress the chemical imbalance.... If not..........." Sadly the little tablets do not work for everyone and some some cases makes things worse. | |||
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"when my mum took her own life, she left a note and all her insurance policies, all her financial matters and the cemetery plot details all laid out for me to find. It was the least selfish thing she do for me knowing the devastation of finding her and the impact thereafter. considered whilst in total despair. Like wise my father hung himself and had arranged everything before hand and left it all ready...He had cancer and was suffering and thought it less selfish to go how he did then to have to have us watch him suffer any more then we had to.He also made sure he would not be found by any of us and it would be emergency services." A relative of mine did this, the pain etc from the cancer was unbearable for her. | |||
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"My dad attempted suicide when I was 18 but luckily he was found in time. Today we said goodbye to a family member who took his own life, he had never gotten over the tragic death of his wife five years ago. He was a well liked man who done alot to help others but just couldnt cope, the crematorium was standing room only and one of the loveliest send offs I have seen Gill" I know someone who hung herself on the estate where she lives (and I live) because of the death of her daughter at 20 yrs old from cancer, even a very young grandson just wasn't enough to stop her, she just couldn't deal with the pain of losing a child | |||
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"Neither.... Each of the two choices assumes cognitive response to a rational thought process.... In the mental state where a totally irrational action is taken, the brain has produced too much / not enough of the chemicals required to make a cognitive choice..... This cerebral response is most likely the cause of many external events, the sum of which imbalances the chemistry to a point where the rational self preservation mechanism simply cannot function..... If caught in time, the "little tablets" may be enough to redress the chemical imbalance.... If not........... Sadly the little tablets do not work for everyone and some some cases makes things worse. " True.... Then, the chemical imbalance goes unchecked and the results can be tragic.... | |||
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"Suicide encompasses so many different reasons as to why people do it that's impossible to pigeon-hole them into two umbrella categories. I don't know anyone personally who has succeeded in suicide, but I do know a few who have tried. Of those, some were simply drawing attention to their problems, some were asking for help, and some were very unbalanced individuals to begin with. I don't know anyone who has attempted suicide without having some sort of mental breakdown in their decision making processes." Totally agree with that. Suicide and the reasons people do it are far to complex to categorise, Js best friend killed himself after many years of deep depression. And another of his friends did the same after his mum died and then 2 months later his sister was killed in a car accident, they found him hanging of a door, he had as far as we know no mental issues to that point! Cowards way out I disagree with totally. M | |||
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"best wishes to you and her xx" Thank you xxx | |||
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"Wow... what a thread and it's actually reassuring to see so many people who have felt the same way I have done. When I overdosed, there was no other option in my mind because I had no future, nothing to look forward to, no hope, I was useless and it was pointless being alive. I was never going to become anything worthwhile and I would never live up to the expectations that had been laid out for me. I didn't think about family or friends or who would find me and how it would affect them. I wasn't capable of thinking. All I could wish was that I had never existed. I was found. Ironically, it was whatever was in the drip that they gave me that nearly killed me. I have memories of everything inside me burning and vomiting uncontrollablly and I even remember what it feels like to have a defribulator used on me when I went into cardiac arrest. Counselling was the biggest waste of time I had ever encountered (for me-I realise it isn't for everyone) and friends and family thought I was stupid and selfish for doing it which nearly tipped me over a second time. Only God knows what stopped me. What equates to probably less than 15 seconds of memory of that night at the hospital was enough to make me decide that I wasn't going to do that again but there used to be something in the back of my mind which said if I did try again, I wouldn't be bought back. I have spent over half my life fighting manic depression/bipolar (whatever label you wanna call it-it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's eating away at someone's mind) and I still have episodes where I cannot physically go outside, get out of bed, eat, drink, talk or anything normal other than stare blankly into space or cry uncontrollablly. I still think about suicide and the peace it could bring but I have changed. I have made myself a life which I enjoy and is worth living. I am not successful, I am not rich, I am not intelligent (in my mind), I have no talents but what I do ensure that I have is a good laugh and a lot of fun. I am selfish as I am now living my life for me. When I was told in counselling that I should think of others, all I could feel was guilt. Guilt for existing in the first place and for being a waste of space. Now I think of me and take responsibility for myself and put myself in situations I enjoy regularly to make my stupid head realise that life is good and there's a lot of fun to be had. I don't think I'll ever be cured of depression and I think it's a demon that will live with me forever but rather than indulge the depression, I indulge my hunger for fun and laughter. Excuse the long post-this is something I deal with every day and anyone with mental illness will be the same but I am the only person who can stop me from doing the same thing I did all those years ago. There's not a shrink or pill in the world that's strong enough to overcome what I have felt but I am thankful that I am so selfish to want to do whatever I want so that I enjoy myself because it's that hunger for life that keeps me going. crystal" Reading this myself i think you hit rock bottom ... live or die and some how you see a light some hope ...... and thank god you did .... you come across as now positive in your way of thinking and maybe everyday you don't feel like that .. as living with this cant be easy . All i can hope you you have nice caring people around to support you when you get that low. Thank You for writing this as it show others who suffer.... thay are not alone. xxxx jo | |||
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"Reading this myself i think you hit rock bottom ... live or die and some how you see a light some hope ...... and thank god you did .... you come across as now positive in your way of thinking and maybe everyday you don't feel like that .. as living with this cant be easy . All i can hope you you have nice caring people around to support you when you get that low. Thank You for writing this as it show others who suffer.... thay are not alone. xxxx jo" Thanks Jo x I can talk about my experiences openly as I have learnt to accept its part of who I am and how I'm wired. The reason why mental illness is so taboo is because nobody talks about it. I will continue to share my outlook in the hope it improves understanding to those around me and to help others realise they are never alone. And thank you OP for creating this thread. crystal | |||
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"I still feel an immense sense of guilt over this. If I,and others had just taken the time to talk to,reassure,help then perhaps a tragic waste of life could have been avoided. " The majority of those who are successful at suicide don't seek help, very few people will be aware until the event has taken place. | |||
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"I still feel an immense sense of guilt over this. If I,and others had just taken the time to talk to,reassure,help then perhaps a tragic waste of life could have been avoided. The majority of those who are successful at suicide don't seek help, very few people will be aware until the event has taken place." Are you basing that on anything more than opinion? because as someone with professional knowledge of this area I disagree. | |||
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"Selfish and cowardly or totally in despair and can't see any other way out? We go with the latter" ppl tht commit suicide are not selfish and cowardly at all!i think tht if sumone feels so low tht they think thts the only solution they must really be feeling totally desperate and in pain!nobody can judge anyone in this situation ,no one knows what has gone on in tht persons life to make them feel tht way,suicide is just an awful devastating experience for any family and i thank god i have never felt tht low" | |||
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"I thought for a long time before I decided to post on this thread since dealing with suicide is a very personal issue and we have seen from the replies .. everyone has their differing ideas of why people attempt or compete it. I have spoken to both people who have been left behind after the person has died and also to people who are actually in the middle of carrying out the act. I know that they do believe that it is the only option for them and yes, they do think and talk about people they will leave behind, so it's wrong to think that they don't believe others will hurt .. just that they sometimes feel others are better of without them. I also hear the questions people left behind ask .. why did they do it, what if i had noticed, I could have done more , it's my fault. We are not the person who is committing suicide and therefore we can't judge or assume anything about them .. all we can do is assist where we can when help is needed" | |||
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"Are you basing that on anything more than opinion?" My opinion based on 25+ years experience working with the mentally ill. | |||
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"Are you basing that on anything more than opinion? My opinion based on 25+ years experience working with the mentally ill." same here , basing on 10yrs psychiatric inpatient healthcare. I do not devalue anyones suffering, but without sounding complacent the people who were at most risk were the ones who rarely ever spoke about suicide or attempted it.While on 1-1 observations I did sometime think I would have been better elsewhere with those I felt more withdrawn. | |||
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" I do not devalue anyones suffering, but without sounding complacent the people who were at most risk were the ones who rarely ever spoke about suicide or attempted it.While on 1-1 observations I did sometime think I would have been better elsewhere with those I felt more withdrawn. " Based on my experience, I agree with you, too. | |||
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"mental illness is a very cruel disease and anyone who hasnt been affected by this in their life should feel blessed .. for those that have been aflicted with it .. my heart goes to them " Absolutely! And one of the problems is that so often is goes unnoticed. And, unlike with a visible illness there is so much prejudice and judgment against people suffering from MH! | |||
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"latter exept in situations were they effect other pepol by doing so ( jup infront of train....( causing pain to a person who shouldent of been involved." As I tried to indicate in above post, they do not make rational, considered decisions, other than the drive to end their lives. | |||
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"there is so much prejudice and judgment against people suffering from MH! " True, however, society's becoming more tolerant / acceptable regarding mental health. | |||
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"mental illness is a very cruel disease and anyone who hasnt been affected by this in their life should feel blessed .. for those that have been aflicted with it .. my heart goes to them Absolutely! And one of the problems is that so often is goes unnoticed. And, unlike with a visible illness there is so much prejudice and judgment against people suffering from MH! " Are we claiming people who commit suicide are mentally ill and we should empathise? If that's the case I'll rethink my _iews on the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers and pray for their souls. But why do I get the feeling they'll be excluded from the "mental health" umbrella. | |||
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"mental illness is a very cruel disease and anyone who hasnt been affected by this in their life should feel blessed .. for those that have been aflicted with it .. my heart goes to them Absolutely! And one of the problems is that so often is goes unnoticed. And, unlike with a visible illness there is so much prejudice and judgment against people suffering from MH! Are we claiming people who commit suicide are mentally ill and we should empathise? If that's the case I'll rethink my _iews on the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers and pray for their souls. But why do I get the feeling they'll be excluded from the "mental health" umbrella." i personally put them under the 'fanatics' 'extremeists' umbrellas .. i refer to people with mental illness who commit suicide as 'joe bloggs' attempting to go about his normally daily routine who finds it too much to cope with | |||
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"mental illness is a very cruel disease and anyone who hasnt been affected by this in their life should feel blessed .. for those that have been aflicted with it .. my heart goes to them Absolutely! And one of the problems is that so often is goes unnoticed. And, unlike with a visible illness there is so much prejudice and judgment against people suffering from MH! Are we claiming people who commit suicide are mentally ill and we should empathise? If that's the case I'll rethink my _iews on the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers and pray for their souls. But why do I get the feeling they'll be excluded from the "mental health" umbrella." Uniquely, those who kill themselves for beliefs, in an attempt to murder others, whilst morally questionable and not society norm, make a cognitive decision to their act.... Those who take their own lives due to external forces which unbalance their cerebral chemical makeup, admittedly may leave grief of family and friends, but are a totally different case... | |||
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"I say the latter. It is not a cowards way out. More soldiers have commited suicide since the Falklands War than were killed in the conflict itself. And that goes for Argentinian as well as British soldiers. Brave men who could not live with the terrors of the past. absolutely agree with you on this one .. there has been alot of research globally gone into this recently and conflicts and wars do undoubtedly have lasting impressions on service men and womens mental statze .. surprisingly for me, with regard to UK service men and women, the most traumatic tour of duty in recent years has turned out to be Northern Ireland " | |||
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"mental illness is a very cruel disease and anyone who hasnt been affected by this in their life should feel blessed .. for those that have been aflicted with it .. my heart goes to them Absolutely! And one of the problems is that so often is goes unnoticed. And, unlike with a visible illness there is so much prejudice and judgment against people suffering from MH! Are we claiming people who commit suicide are mentally ill and we should empathise? If that's the case I'll rethink my _iews on the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers and pray for their souls. But why do I get the feeling they'll be excluded from the "mental health" umbrella." I am not including people who commit suicide attacks under the umbrella of suicide as the topic of this thread as arguably suicide bombers' motive for committing suicide is external, ie for another "cause". Very different from those who see no way out! Whether people choose to pray for anybody is their personal choice and depends on their belief system; some would include murderers and other criminals in their prayers, others would not. | |||
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"your absolutely right diamonds and I wasnt trying to make generalisations but from personal experience, mental health does play a key part in lots of situations of suicide but as you rightly point out, not every situation is the same " Absolutely agree. There are some people in perfectly good mental health who commit suicide. | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome." I used to be a Sam and was involved in training people to become them as well .. and totally agree with that | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome." Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... " | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... " Leaving behind not just the devastation of her own family but also that caused to you. How very sad for her, her family and you! | |||
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"I never went back..... " "YOU" didn't fail her, those responsible for her. failed her, i.e. parents / teachers / society | |||
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"I never went back..... "YOU" didn't fail her, those responsible for her. failed her, i.e. parents / teachers / society " And sometimes there is that inevitability, that force that nobody seem to be able to stop. It is what it is - and it is incredibly sad for somebody so young. | |||
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"it is incredibly sad for somebody so young." It's not uncommon for youngsters to commit suicide, as in all successful cases we'll never know why, however, for a 10 year old to do it says something about what kind of caring society we really are | |||
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"I never went back..... "YOU" didn't fail her, those responsible for her. failed her, i.e. parents / teachers / society " True.... But thirty odd years on her voice can catch me, unawares.... But, ironically, it has seen me through a couple of black moments.... | |||
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"it is incredibly sad for somebody so young. It's not uncommon for youngsters to commit suicide, as in all successful cases we'll never know why, however, for a 10 year old to do it says something about what kind of caring society we really are " I agree with you. Aged 10 we assume they are still children and somehow "should be " happy and carefree. nobody knows of course what burden may have been on that girl's life. It could have been anything from a broken home, abuse of whatever kind, bullying, being a young carer... or maybe depression which is rare but not unheard of at that age. | |||
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"I never went back..... "YOU" didn't fail her, those responsible for her. failed her, i.e. parents / teachers / society And sometimes there is that inevitability, that force that nobody seem to be able to stop. It is what it is - and it is incredibly sad for somebody so young." You can't live someone's life for them, you can only offer advice based upon experience - bitter or otherwise - and that advice can be disregarded or taken on-board, but ultimately you have no control over whether someone chooses to end their life. I think life is sacrosanct in so much as it's hard to hear of people snuffed out when they had so much to live for, so much potential unfulfilled, but that could drive me insane, so I choose to regret their loss but not uphold it as something humanity has lost out on. There will always be people who will change the world in which they live and those who will never amount to much but it is not for anyone to say who's life is worth more. More to the point, it is to say who's life could have been worth more had they had the perfect chance to shine. It's not a perfect world though. | |||
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"I never went back..... "YOU" didn't fail her, those responsible for her. failed her, i.e. parents / teachers / society And sometimes there is that inevitability, that force that nobody seem to be able to stop. It is what it is - and it is incredibly sad for somebody so young. You can't live someone's life for them, you can only offer advice based upon experience - bitter or otherwise - and that advice can be disregarded or taken on-board, but ultimately you have no control over whether someone chooses to end their life. I think life is sacrosanct in so much as it's hard to hear of people snuffed out when they had so much to live for, so much potential unfulfilled, but that could drive me insane, so I choose to regret their loss but not uphold it as something humanity has lost out on. There will always be people who will change the world in which they live and those who will never amount to much but it is not for anyone to say who's life is worth more. More to the point, it is to say who's life could have been worth more had they had the perfect chance to shine. It's not a perfect world though." You are right, it is not a perfect world. I can accept that everybody has the right to determine their own life and, in that context, also the end of their life. If somebody is (considered) compos mentis, then I guess it is their choice. It is just when somebody is only 10 years old... I struggle with seeing how they could have really known what might have been out there for them. | |||
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"..It is just when somebody is only 10 years old... I struggle with seeing how they could have really known what might have been out there for them. " That's exactly what I'm saying, they couldn't have known, and I think the loss is felt more keenly by people who have lived longer and seen how we change as we age but to a young mind that cannot comprehend what we're discussing it must seem that it is a life not worth living. It's shockingly sad to see a life wasted but even more so when it's a life that hasn't lived yet. | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... " sorry to sound like a total killjoy but Samaritans is supposed to be wholey confidential within Samaritas, even after you have left the oranisation. I know you havent divulged much personal information but i still feel that this breaks that confidentiality. It is a truely sad story, as are all suicide stories and it is sad that it made you leave Samaritans. | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... sorry to sound like a total killjoy but Samaritans is supposed to be wholey confidential within Samaritas, even after you have left the oranisation. I know you havent divulged much personal information but i still feel that this breaks that confidentiality. It is a truely sad story, as are all suicide stories and it is sad that it made you leave Samaritans. " I really fail to see how confidentiality was breached here? The poster did not reveal anything that would make the person identifiable - where I work there have been several suicides of young people around that age in the last 3 years... | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... sorry to sound like a total killjoy but Samaritans is supposed to be wholey confidential within Samaritas, even after you have left the oranisation. I know you havent divulged much personal information but i still feel that this breaks that confidentiality. It is a truely sad story, as are all suicide stories and it is sad that it made you leave Samaritans. I really fail to see how confidentiality was breached here? The poster did not reveal anything that would make the person identifiable - where I work there have been several suicides of young people around that age in the last 3 years... " you are not meant to discuss any calls outside of samaritans in any way. thats they way i understood my training. | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... sorry to sound like a total killjoy but Samaritans is supposed to be wholey confidential within Samaritas, even after you have left the oranisation. I know you havent divulged much personal information but i still feel that this breaks that confidentiality. It is a truely sad story, as are all suicide stories and it is sad that it made you leave Samaritans. I really fail to see how confidentiality was breached here? The poster did not reveal anything that would make the person identifiable - where I work there have been several suicides of young people around that age in the last 3 years... you are not meant to discuss any calls outside of samaritans in any way. thats they way i understood my training." Sure, you are right there but the point I am making (I am trained, too) is that he commented in very general terms? | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... sorry to sound like a total killjoy but Samaritans is supposed to be wholey confidential within Samaritas, even after you have left the oranisation. I know you havent divulged much personal information but i still feel that this breaks that confidentiality. It is a truely sad story, as are all suicide stories and it is sad that it made you leave Samaritans. I really fail to see how confidentiality was breached here? The poster did not reveal anything that would make the person identifiable - where I work there have been several suicides of young people around that age in the last 3 years... you are not meant to discuss any calls outside of samaritans in any way. thats they way i understood my training.Sure, you are right there but the point I am making (I am trained, too) is that he commented in very general terms?" i am not going to argue on this thread. in my eyes, and the way i was trained by Samaritans is that you dont discuss the calls with anyone in any way, general or otherwise. | |||
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"I am a Samaritan with five years experience, and definitely the latter...the bleak desperation of those who choose to end their lives subsumes normal emotions like selfishness and notions of responsibility, they simply do not respond. It is so sad when you are talking to a caller, and realise there is a terrible inevitably about the outcome. Kudos to all Samaritans.... I burnt out the night I had a call from a young girl..... "Hi... My name is (name / surname) and I live in (area of the city)..." Long pause... " I just called to say goodbye..." Click.... 10 years old. She was found, dead next day.... I never went back..... sorry to sound like a total killjoy but Samaritans is supposed to be wholey confidential within Samaritas, even after you have left the oranisation. I know you havent divulged much personal information but i still feel that this breaks that confidentiality. It is a truely sad story, as are all suicide stories and it is sad that it made you leave Samaritans. I really fail to see how confidentiality was breached here? The poster did not reveal anything that would make the person identifiable - where I work there have been several suicides of young people around that age in the last 3 years... you are not meant to discuss any calls outside of samaritans in any way. thats they way i understood my training.Sure, you are right there but the point I am making (I am trained, too) is that he commented in very general terms? i am not going to argue on this thread. in my eyes, and the way i was trained by Samaritans is that you dont discuss the calls with anyone in any way, general or otherwise." I did not think we were arguing - I was merely saying I did not think that the poster had done anything contravening the rules. | |||
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"Having reverified my limited knowledge of the policies of this organisation, directly with them, it is agreed that none of the core charter values have in any way been compromised, with specific regard to their high standards of confidentiality.... In responding to the questiion of my own personal high standards of discretion, particularly with reference to the possibility of damaging a public service body based on trust in their confidentiality, may I personally draw posters attention to the part of the core charter which refers to being non judgemental." | |||
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"Having reverified my limited knowledge of the policies of this organisation, directly with them, it is agreed that none of the core charter values have in any way been compromised, with specific regard to their high standards of confidentiality.... In responding to the questiion of my own personal high standards of discretion, particularly with reference to the possibility of damaging a public service body based on trust in their confidentiality, may I personally draw posters attention to the part of the core charter which refers to being non judgemental." I wasn't being judgemental euro. I perhaps took an over zealous _iew of the organizations policy on confidentiality as for me that is the key thing about the service. People need to trust that information about their calls stays confidential within Samaritans. I would rather er on the over zealous side of that any day. | |||
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"Talking does not always help, the only time i have ever felt this low was after the death of my son, i think i can honestly say had i not had my daughter i would have killed myself, she was the only thing that kept me going, and even then i felt like she would be better off without me at times as i blamed myself for my sons death and i felt i was unfit to have a child, as a mother we feel we should be there for our kids and the fact i was powerless to help him put great guilt and pressure on me, i was under a shrink for years after and they didn't help me at all, for some things talking don't help Cowards way out? maybe, i felt i would rather be dead than face my life without him, yes that makes me selfish but at that point in my life i just didn't care about anyone else" Good post | |||
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"Having reverified my limited knowledge of the policies of this organisation, directly with them, it is agreed that none of the core charter values have in any way been compromised, with specific regard to their high standards of confidentiality.... In responding to the questiion of my own personal high standards of discretion, particularly with reference to the possibility of damaging a public service body based on trust in their confidentiality, may I personally draw posters attention to the part of the core charter which refers to being non judgemental. I wasn't being judgemental euro. I perhaps took an over zealous _iew of the organizations policy on confidentiality as for me that is the key thing about the service. People need to trust that information about their calls stays confidential within Samaritans. I would rather er on the over zealous side of that any day. " Quite right too....Xxxxx | |||
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"It's difficult for me to see Kamikaze, suicide bombers or the 9/11 murderers as cowards. I must confess to never being able to understand that label being put on these individuals. I appreciate that this is an unpopular _iew, but I struggle with calling them cowards. " ...or being mentally ill. | |||
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