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Should military service be mandatory?
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By *hagTonight OP Man 36 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
Continue here, any late comers, it was interesting to see the replies. I was watching a program about it and it was interesting, it was if military service should be mandatory or not.
They talked about the benefits, especially for the younger ones like those who are finishing college to do a semester of 4 month of it and what it will teach them, like, being punctual, show respect, team work and having a clean room, amongst other things.
I agree with them and the points they talked about. I think that it would be a good idea.
What is your view about it and do you think it is a good idea, how would they implement it, should it be at the end of the term?  |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Yes simple short answer.
2 years then free to decide to leave or continue. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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There are 220'000 school leavers each year and 150'000 regular military, how do you propose to house, feed and train these people? Many regular military roles require a minimum of 2 years training before becoming operationally capable also. |
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Yes, beside I do love men in uniform |
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I get the side of it that can teach discipline, time keeping, a good work ethic etc but I still don't agree it should be mandatory. This isn't an every day job we are talking about, its dangerous. It's not a situation we should force people into. Anyone who signs up should 100% understand what they are getting into and still choose that is what they want to do.
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I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc. |
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How would this be funded and who would do all those jobs that younger people do while they were square bashing ? |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea  |
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Most jobs teach you how to be disciplined and punctual. I don't agree with the commonly held belief that all people under 25 are workshy, lazy and don't understand the importance of doing their job properly either. A couple of weeks working with older people who won't let you get away with it soon sorts the sheep from the goats. |
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By *otsMan 36 weeks ago
Higham |
"teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea "
Exactly so no! |
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No it shouldn’t be mandatory as a lot of young adults want to go into further education and this would be a waste of their time. A lot of young adult don’t need to join the army to learn respect, discipline etc |
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Like fuck it should be......
Mr |
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"No it shouldn’t be mandatory as a lot of young adults want to go into further education and this would be a waste of their time. A lot of young adult don’t need to join the army to learn respect, discipline etc"
Yep. There are consequences to not displaying these characteristics in a working environment as well as socially.
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Don't get it tbh.
It's a shed load of cost for what benefit ? Do we really need that big an armed forces + reserves ?
I don't buy the whole discipline bit. Most kids have that.
And it's to solve those who don't, why not try spend the money between the ages of 0 and 18. |
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"Don't get it tbh.
It's a shed load of cost for what benefit ? Do we really need that big an armed forces + reserves ?
I don't buy the whole discipline bit. Most kids have that.
And it's to solve those who don't, why not try spend the money between the ages of 0 and 18. "
Given that the armed forces we have got are frighteningly underfunded I have no idea where the money would come from.
I agree with you, if there's money to do this and people feel it's necessary why not spend it before it becomes a need. |
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[Removed by poster at 17/03/24 16:03:55] |
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By *r_reusMan 36 weeks ago
Coventry |
Under this governing system, absolutely not.
I can barely tolerate living under as much bullshit as we do, I'm sure as hell not going to die for it. |
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"Yes simple short answer.
2 years then free to decide to leave or continue."
Agreed, 100% but no active service as in real conflict whilst conscripted. |
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By *ermbiMan 36 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
Yes it might discipline the snowflakes who think they are entitled to everything for little work and instil a bit of resilience instead of nonsense that they cannot accept rejection or no for an answer. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Commented on the last thread:
Talking from experience in the role:
I don’t think it would work
It’s hard enough to keep retention at the best of times let along introducing a large number of people who potentially don’t want to be there
Then there’s the maint of kit and field graft; some people might not ‘dig in’ so to speak
In short; sure it’d boost defence numbers, but it may cause more headache than good imo |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Spin off question : would you have benefited from NS at 18? |
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Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.
My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.
He’s 19 now but went through the AFC from age 16/17. He has an almost 2 year old at home waiting for daddy to come home safe. He’s been away for 4 weeks and still got a few more weeks til he’s home. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc. "
Absolutely agree with this.
In operational roles you need total trust in your colleagues and vice versa.
If you don't exactly want to be there then you're not fully committed to it and hence you create the weak link on the chain.
If you want to instill the mindset, work ethics etc then there could be roles within the Armed Forces doing barrack based duties which are perfect for that.
But it's a no for conscription into operations from me |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.
My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.
He’s 19 now but went through the AFC from age 16/17. He has an almost 2 year old at home waiting for daddy to come home safe. He’s been away for 4 weeks and still got a few more weeks til he’s home. "
You have my best wishes for his safe return |
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"There are 220'000 school leavers each year and 150'000 regular military, how do you propose to house, feed and train these people? Many regular military roles require a minimum of 2 years training before becoming operationally capable also. "
as with many comments and statistics, based on incorrect information. |
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National Service only existed as a concept for a very short period - 1947 to 1960 (for recruitment). It was because we feared the Soviets and thought we should retain enough trained people to respond to further conflict, post WW2. My Dad is nearly 85 and was among the last to be called up for NS, as he was born earlier in '39.
See this: "National Service ended gradually from 1957. It was decided that those born on or after 1 October 1939 would not be required, but conscription continued for those born earlier whose call-up had been delayed for any reason. In November 1960 the last men entered service, as call-ups formally ended on 31 December 1960, and the last National Servicemen left the armed forces in May 1963"
It's laughable that so many people "reminisce" when they've got absolutely bugger all experience of compulsory NS. Anyone younger than 84 has no direct experience whatsoever. Anyone who voluntarily joined the military at other times, is a totally different kettle of fish and wouldn't understand the issue with it being compulsory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Service_Act_1948 |
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"Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.
My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.
He’s 19 now but went through the AFC from age 16/17. He has an almost 2 year old at home waiting for daddy to come home safe. He’s been away for 4 weeks and still got a few more weeks til he’s home.
You have my best wishes for his safe return "
Thank you.
He managed to send me some flowers for Mother’s Day and that’s the only way I knew he was safe cos I hadn’t heard from him for a few weeks. Literally burst out crying and I’m not usually a cryer lol |
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What benefit would it be?
How would it be funded?
Surely it's a waste of time for those who want to continue into higher education...
I saw it discussed on another social media platform, there were lots of older people arguing that 18-25 year old people are "lazy, workshy, entitled" etc. Which is laughable really. You can literally Google quotes of older people saying this, nearly word for word for the last 100 years.
Wasn't it also Socrates that also did this?
So no. I'd fully support a "conscription" based on choice for those who want to sample something else to help aid in their possible career choice. But making it mandatory? I just don't think filling places with people who don't want to be there is a good idea. |
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Don't agree with it..and frankly.. if the global situation means that it is required..then we are all fucked anyway.
why? M.A.D
also, don't we have about 3 tanks, and broken missiles? |
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No thanks it should be a choice to join up or not. |
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Would this be just for boys or would girls be conscripted ?
I served and knowing the guys wanted to be there made basic training a lot easier. No constant beastings if your fellow trainees are motivated themselves.
From a personal perspective I have two boys neither would suit the military life, both autistic and would really suffer around people they didn’t know or were shouting orders at them.
Agree with others who don’t believe youngsters are lazy and unmotivated. Worked with plenty of the years and the majority are hard working and eager to learn new skills. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Defo not |
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people think that conscription means everyone has to do the time.
it doesnt mean that at all. there was still medicals, mental and phsyical tests, basic reading writing etc for the army alone.
there are people in the country who simply could not pass the tests to qualify for entry. |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc. "
I'm have the same opinion. I wouldn't have liked to serve alongside anyone that didn't volunteer.
Maybe some kind of community service would be better. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"There are 220'000 school leavers each year and 150'000 regular military, how do you propose to house, feed and train these people? Many regular military roles require a minimum of 2 years training before becoming operationally capable also. "
Exactly this op.
It is not good at all. |
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"Continue here, any late comers, it was interesting to see the replies. I was watching a program about it and it was interesting, it was if military service should be mandatory or not.
They talked about the benefits, especially for the younger ones like those who are finishing college to do a semester of 4 month of it and what it will teach them, like, being punctual, show respect, team work and having a clean room, amongst other things.
I agree with them and the points they talked about. I think that it would be a good idea.
What is your view about it and do you think it is a good idea, how would they implement it, should it be at the end of the term? "
The word military in modern society ‘should’ trigger alarm bells in anyone sufficiently educated and with the sanity to understand its disastrous implications. On the other hand, ‘service’ in the sense of providing support to the community in general could well be a worthy programme of personal development. |
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By *ddie1966Man 36 weeks ago
Paper Town Central, Essex. |
Ex mil myself.
Would I want someone next to me who was forced to do their service.
Not on your life (or my life, should I say)
Some things you can't teach unless they want to do it.
Even those who do want to do it will balk when it comes to pulling a trigger at someone in front of them.
I do agree with selective filtering of those with skills that would be beneficial to our forces.
In this day and age there are many ways to contribute to the defence of the realm.
Square pegs and round holes do not go.
Just my opinion though.... |
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I'm against this. The army isn't an army anymore it's numbers are at the level of a defence force. I was in for 10 years got made redundant during the defence cuts. I tried to rejoin but couldn't get back in as on antidepressants, but it's ok to be on them if your interested. Very odd |
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Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years? |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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If it's to be a yes it should apply to people of all ages.
Let's see how enthusiastic everyone is then ... |
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I’m wondering what people would do if they were put to work in the NHS or voluntary sector? Who would pay for it? What benefit would it be to the country and the young people? |
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"If it's to be a yes it should apply to people of all ages.
Let's see how enthusiastic everyone is then ..."
I’ve been wondering why, if the army is so good for youngsters, the people suggesting National Service didn’t join up themselves? |
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Learned cleaning and polishing shoes from my dad who did have to do it. I cooked from age 11 and learned to do a lot of things around house after my mum broke bones in her back after an accident at work
From the point of view that many youngsters seem not to have the life skills they need it could be an idea but also raises an issue about modern life and how equipped kids are to deal with it.
In other ways I’d be opposed to seeing kids on national service be deployed abroad or whatever and if you’re gonna call them up at some point, then the age of vote might need to drop to 16 too. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"If it's to be a yes it should apply to people of all ages.
Let's see how enthusiastic everyone is then ...
I’ve been wondering why, if the army is so good for youngsters, the people suggesting National Service didn’t join up themselves?"
Indeed. Great idea providing they don't have to do it themselves.
Same attitude as the dicks who make the decisions to send young lads into battle.
These days there's no reason for older people not to get involved anyway. They can operate drones. Sweep factory floors. Help with medical aid for the youngsters they so happily send to war. |
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I guess the funding would come from the magical money tree that doesn't exist to fund schools etc. |
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By *929Man 36 weeks ago
newcastle |
Maybe mandatory for those that don’t leave school and become a productive member of society yes |
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A very big NO.
I don't see that military service is a positive thing for the vast majority of people. Not to mention how such an endeavour would be funded...
I would much rather see better funding for education, the NHS and genuinely affordable housing.
Nita |
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By *eavilMan 36 weeks ago
Stalybridge |
The Armed Forces have stated that they are not in favour of a conscript intake. A better solution would be to invest in more hi-tech solutions to defence that reduces the need for manpower. Also the general public would be more supportive if robots rather than young boys and girls were in the proverbial firing line. |
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"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?"
It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.
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I think it would be a good idea for those who aren't in full-time education, or a job by the time they are 18 to do a minimum of 2yrs service. It might help reduce there numbers who claim benefits because they can't be bothered to get off their arses. |
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No. We've moved on from the past world wars. It may be relevant if we get another. Military service should be optional and left as a professional pursuit, for those suited to it. |
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"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?
It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.
"
It used to be that it was. Your NS could be delayed to allow you to do university education but you still had to do your year of NS. The NS was deferred, basically. The only exemptions were men from NI and men working in reserved occupations like mining and farming and only then if they remained in those occupations for eight years after the date they should have commenced NS. If they left their occupation, they got called up (in theory, because in practice, the whole NS thing only really lasted 10 years). |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc.
Absolutely agree with this.
In operational roles you need total trust in your colleagues and vice versa.
If you don't exactly want to be there then you're not fully committed to it and hence you create the weak link on the chain.
If you want to instill the mindset, work ethics etc then there could be roles within the Armed Forces doing barrack based duties which are perfect for that.
But it's a no for conscription into operations from me"
Could’ve say it better myself. Nice one ???? |
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With this generation? I think they’d crumble! |
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Definitely not ...because in my opinion its very expensive to train soldiers that don't want to be there and the British Army would cease to be a professional service. |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc. "
I agree very much with the above. I don't see the point of training zillions of young people how to kill other young people but I can see the point of some useful work in the community |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc.
I agree very much with the above. I don't see the point of training zillions of young people how to kill other young people but I can see the point of some useful work in the community"
if young people want to do some useful work in the community they can choose it as their career. Who's going to pay them otherwise? |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"With this generation? I think they’d crumble! "
Yeah they're nowhere near as tough as those of us brought up in the 70s/80s/90s.
They never suffered perms and shellsuits, dial up internet and having to actually pedal their BMX.
Tough times. |
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"With this generation? I think they’d crumble!
Yeah they're nowhere near as tough as those of us brought up in the 70s/80s/90s.
They never suffered perms and shellsuits, dial up internet and having to actually pedal their BMX.
Tough times."
you want to try growing up in the late fifties and sixties. Only two channels on the telly, cod liver oil and calves foot jelly. A darn good stint in the army would have put hairs on our chest  |
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I don't believe in mandatory "anything", so no. Freedom of choice for the individual to consider, especially when the outcome is their own mortality. |
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"Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.
My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.
He’s 19 now but went through the AFC from age 16/17. He has an almost 2 year old at home waiting for daddy to come home safe. He’s been away for 4 weeks and still got a few more weeks til he’s home.
You have my best wishes for his safe return
Thank you.
He managed to send me some flowers for Mother’s Day and that’s the only way I knew he was safe cos I hadn’t heard from him for a few weeks. Literally burst out crying and I’m not usually a cryer lol "
I know the feeling. It won't be long till he's home safe with you all. |
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No, it's not a good idea. I don't think any western countries have conscription anymore. The best soldiers are professional soldiers who want to be there. |
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"No, it's not a good idea. I don't think any western countries have conscription anymore. The best soldiers are professional soldiers who want to be there. "
Many of the Nordic countries have some kind of conscription, Finland being the one that springs most readily to mind. Germany only ended its conscription in the late 1990s. |
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My answer is still no. Our Armed Forces should be made up of professionals, who are there by choice.
You also don't need to join the forces to learn all the important life skills in the OP. Most people have them, without ever needing to join the Forces. |
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"No, it's not a good idea. I don't think any western countries have conscription anymore. The best soldiers are professional soldiers who want to be there.
Many of the Nordic countries have some kind of conscription, Finland being the one that springs most readily to mind. Germany only ended its conscription in the late 1990s. "
I've spoken to the training cadres in the French and German armies, and they all agreed it was becoming more difficult trying to socialise young civilians into army life, when they didn't want to be there. They were glad it finished. I've met Finnish and Austrian volunteer reservists and they were very professional. |
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My Dad did National Service. I don't think it instilled anything in him, other than an aversion to doing what someone else tells him and that you can iron a shirt on a wooden board. He has never once demonstrated it solitary military characteristic. My Grandad (Mum's dad), on the other hand, joined up at 14 and was every inch a military man for the rest of his life, despite leaving the army in 1958. The difference between the conscripted and voluntary soldiers in my life have been self evident. |
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No! Forced labour - ie sl@very - is a terrible idea! |
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"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?
It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.
"
Except most kids who attend college or go to uni are also working, if only part time or also doing an apprenticeship |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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No |
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Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere? |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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No |
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"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?
It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.
"
They'd have to do all of those things too, but you would add a two year offset where they all went into national service first before starting work. |
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I'd prefer the £billions it would cost, to be invested in our crumbling public services instead. Our infrastructure is toast, after years when leaders were plundering the community chest, awarding contracts for billions to their mates, so we have little to support well-being of the nation |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Depressed teenagers with real guns? Sounds like a great idea!
In all seriousness tho, I still wouldn't mind it but that's because I'm trying to build up the fitness for a military career anyway! Here's hoping I pass the Capita medical process...OH WAIT...WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CONSCRIPTIONS BECAUSE BY THE TIME THEY PASS THE FUCKING CAPITA BULLSHIT THEY'LL BE TOO OLD TO SERVE ANYWAY...(where's my crying emoji?). |
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No.
Formalised structure can be great for some who needs and crave it and can be positive in some ways. They often leave that setting bereft of the supporting architecture and translate badly to other employment.
NS was specific response to a need at that time, it doesn't apply now
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"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?"
No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really. |
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It’s great in theory but it’s a no from me
A good example is Turkey and Argentina having conscription and look at the quality of their armed forces even for all the equipment they have. Again Russia men forced to fight will put little effort in or refuse the British proved this in the Falklands and Ukraine did there.
A small motivated professional armed forces wipes the floor with sheer numbers. |
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"I'd prefer the £billions it would cost, to be invested in our crumbling public services instead. Our infrastructure is toast, after years when leaders were plundering the community chest, awarding contracts for billions to their mates, so we have little to support well-being of the nation "
Here here |
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The 16-21 year olds I used to employ in a leisure centre had great discipline. They had pride, an chosen family, and they learned skills that would be useful for the rest of their lives.
Maybe we should fund school/touth physical education (and arts, etc) programs so that young people can find their passions rather than funding a government controlled organization to thrust guns into their hands. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea "
There is ALWAYS one  thank you for your absolutely useless input! |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"The 16-21 year olds I used to employ in a leisure centre had great discipline. They had pride, an chosen family, and they learned skills that would be useful for the rest of their lives.
Maybe we should fund school/touth physical education (and arts, etc) programs so that young people can find their passions rather than funding a government controlled organization to thrust guns into their hands."
We used to. Then Tory... |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"Most jobs teach you how to be disciplined and punctual. I don't agree with the commonly held belief that all people under 25 are workshy, lazy and don't understand the importance of doing their job properly either. A couple of weeks working with older people who won't let you get away with it soon sorts the sheep from the goats. "
Exactly this op.
Society labels young people as lazy good for nothings.
None of us are perfect op. No to military service. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea
There is ALWAYS one thank you for your absolutely useless input!"
He’s right. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Most would never meet the entry requirements. |
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"Most would never meet the entry requirements."
I got turned down for the army reserves because I once went to my doctor and reported dyspareunia (that is - painful sex in women).
I asked why this would make a difference, and was told that when I was doing a tour in the desert there might be problems with the supply of "women's medication".
I pointed out that I didn't intend to be having sex while in a desert anyway, so if I was having sex then there would likely be bigger problems with the male troops stationed with me (the role I was applying for would never go outside the fence).
And I also asked what medication they felt would be a problem, since I didn't take any medication for that condition, nor had it been investigated further than routine monitoring by my GP at later appointments. In fact, at that time I wasn't taking any medication at all.
I can only assume that they also turn down any men who have ever reported erectile dysfunction or similar to their GP, even if they've never taken medication for it. Because the alternative is that the army is sexist, or that the army thinks that all women should be ready to have sex at any time while on tour in the desert.
When they have rules such as this surrounding the recruitment of people even into the reserves, I cannot imaging that many people would make it into the regular army on conscription. |
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"My answer is still no. Our Armed Forces should be made up of professionals, who are there by choice.
You also don't need to join the forces to learn all the important life skills in the OP. Most people have them, without ever needing to join the Forces."
Our armed forces would still be professionals, this about lower level operations & not armed manoeuvres or conflict.
It's a great idea if it can instill mutual & self respect & the discipline most do not have due to poor upbringing. |
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Hell no. You think I'm going out harming others because the idiots in power want to argue |
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I'm still struggling with the funding aspect. That aside National Service was to ensure we had people of fighting age in a semi fit state to defend the country wasn't it? Now it seems to be about teaching youngsters the value of hard work and discipline. That really isn't what the armed forces are for, we shouldn't be placing our youngsters in the hands of the military to do the job that should and in most cases has already been done. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Who would people be fighting for?
The Monarchy is a busted flush,Parliament in in the hands of vested interests,the banks & Corporate interests so WHAT & who should people take up arms against?  |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc. "
Also as an ex military person
A two year stint learning a trade that is beneficial to themselves and society is of benefit to all
Unfortunately too many people see itvas fighting or being on the front line but service people are
Accountants
Logistics management
Engineers
Surveyors
Mechanics
Doctors
Nurses
Fire Crew
The list goes on
Real on the ground training to use in life
Better than an apprenticeship with a college that doesn't assess them and employers that abiluse the system
Sorry became a rant |
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"Who would people be fighting for?
The Monarchy is a busted flush,Parliament in in the hands of vested interests,the banks & Corporate interests so WHAT & who should people take up arms against? "
There doesn't seem to be a clear idea as to what the purpose of conscription/national service would be other than a fairly hazy notion of discipline and work ethic. I guess the more cannon fodder there is the fewer regular military get killed. |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc.
Also as an ex military person
A two year stint learning a trade that is beneficial to themselves and society is of benefit to all
Unfortunately too many people see itvas fighting or being on the front line but service people are
Accountants
Logistics management
Engineers
Surveyors
Mechanics
Doctors
Nurses
Fire Crew
The list goes on
Real on the ground training to use in life
Better than an apprenticeship with a college that doesn't assess them and employers that abiluse the system
Sorry became a rant"
Are you saying that you'd like all training to be carried out by the military? |
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Look .......... as long as they don't make it womandatory or ageatory i'm not worrying. |
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Oh and colleges do assess them if you know of any that don't or employers that abuse apprentices you should be contacting the relevant authority.
Also when did the military become free of abuse? |
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Nope….but you can enlist every politician…most would run a mile |
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"Oh and colleges do assess them if you know of any that don't or employers that abuse apprentices you should be contacting the relevant authority.
Also when did the military become free of abuse?"
Read that wrong. Employers who abuse the system not the apprentices. |
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"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?
No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really."
A very old man wank fantasy. Anyone with direct experience of UK national service must be in their mid 80s in age. Conscription for NS was stopped for anyone born after 1st October 1939. |
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Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse |
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse "
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category? |
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By *batMan 36 weeks ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
Simple, straight no.
Who's paying?
What's it for?
Why so may assumptions that "kids these days [insert negative trait here] ..."
There have been some shocking stories about behaviour within the military. Why are so many assuming that this is the best place for training people who don't want to be there?
We've got some great service personnel. Why dilute that with people who have no interest.
And finally from me, let's get some support for better parenting rather than conscription into the military.
Gbat |
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By *cflirtyMan 36 weeks ago
hants/ w sussex border |
Maybe not mandatory.. but should be much better promoted. But then as an ex... I am biased |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"Simple, straight no.
Who's paying?
What's it for?
Why so may assumptions that "kids these days [insert negative trait here] ..."
There have been some shocking stories about behaviour within the military. Why are so many assuming that this is the best place for training people who don't want to be there?
We've got some great service personnel. Why dilute that with people who have no interest.
And finally from me, let's get some support for better parenting rather than conscription into the military.
Gbat "
Nobody seems able to answer these questions. |
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By *cflirtyMan 36 weeks ago
hants/ w sussex border |
Not all training is as harsh as its made out to be by some...
It installs core values , support for one another as well as discipline |
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"Not all training is as harsh as its made out to be by some...
It installs core values , support for one another as well as discipline"
All the people I've met who are ex military or did national service, have nothing good to say. The only exception was my Grandad. He liked the military life and felt it did him good, from 1945-1958 but I think it's a wee bit different now  |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Just here to say absolutely fucking not. Ew. |
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?"
Too many in my experience |
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By *alguyMan 36 weeks ago
Gibraltar & Manchester |
Like anything there are pros and cons to such a suggestion. But its safe to say that circa 2024 that particular ship has long sailed. |
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?
Too many in my experience "
What is your experience? |
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By *cflirtyMan 36 weeks ago
hants/ w sussex border |
"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?
Too many in my experience "
All work shy |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?
No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really.
A very old man wank fantasy. Anyone with direct experience of UK national service must be in their mid 80s in age. Conscription for NS was stopped for anyone born after 1st October 1939. "
My dad was born 26/09/39 so just missed having to do it at all…. |
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"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?
No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really.
A very old man wank fantasy. Anyone with direct experience of UK national service must be in their mid 80s in age. Conscription for NS was stopped for anyone born after 1st October 1939.
My dad was born 26/09/39 so just missed having to do it at all…."
My Dad was born in June 1939 and he did National Service. It didn't teach him much at all, he spent part of it having his knee fixed, having injured it playing rugby! He's never been (and still isn't) the sort of person to enjoy being shouted at and told what to do. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?
Too many in my experience
All work shy "
So true. Most of them are unemployed. |
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?
Too many in my experience
All work shy
So true. Most of them are unemployed. "
I know quite a few 18-30 year olds (and younger) who work their socks off. I hardly think it's fair to tarnish them all with the same brush. |
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?
Too many in my experience
All work shy
So true. Most of them are unemployed. "
Bloody youngsters! *Tuts*  |
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"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse
What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?
Too many in my experience
All work shy
So true. Most of them are unemployed. "
And listening to popular beat combos on their parents gramophone. |
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Such a lot of bollocks in this thread.
Want to know the reality? Go look at the economically inactive report published just last week.
Check your own facts with reality. Hey don't let that get in the way of fifty years of the everliving "kids today should have done national service" bullshit debate though |
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As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise. |
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No. But working in a service based role, i.e hospitality or retail should be. |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise. "
Everyone? No exceptions? |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise. "
What would they do? |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?"
I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services. |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services. "
What would the wages be and who would pay them? |
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I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services. "
Who will do the jobs that young people currently are doing then? What role do you forsee in the emergency services for young people who, for example, have disabilities? |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
What would they do? "
Whatever they want. There are a lot of different roles between the military and the emergency services.
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"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
"
True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are. |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services.
Who will do the jobs that young people currently are doing then? What role do you forsee in the emergency services for young people who, for example, have disabilities? "
It would surely be how it was in the passed certain medical standards |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services.
Who will do the jobs that young people currently are doing then? What role do you forsee in the emergency services for young people who, for example, have disabilities? "
That would depend on what the disability is. But the emergency services doesn’t necessarily mean front line.
As for filling jobs that young people are currently doing…… well I did say start national service by the age of 21 so people could do those jobs before they join up.
Caveat. I don’t have all the answers but people more educated than me could make it work.
I just think it would be good.
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By *ild_oatsMan 36 weeks ago
the land of saints & sinners |
"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?"
Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.
Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….
BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up. |
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"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are. "
I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.
Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.
Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old. |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc. "
I concur. 100%. Not something to be forced to do except in extremis. Without being remotely cynical I don't want to serve alongside anyone who doesn't want to be there, or isn't suitable. I NEED to be able to put my like in the hands of the person next to me - and vice versa. I'm all for some form of service to the nation, just not military service, unless it's voluntary on the part of the individual. Better to have a few who are actually there because they want to serve the rest of the nation. |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.
Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….
BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up. "
No one born after 1st October 1939 has done conscripted National Service in the UK. Like we said earlier, it's wank fodder for those whose rose tinted specs were last cleaned when horn-rims were all the rage and before Elvis was invented. |
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Respect isn't taught in the armed forces. Fear is. |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.
Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….
BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up. "
It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters. |
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"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.
I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.
Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.
Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old."
We both worked with teenagers. Very few lacked respect and even fewer lacked discipline. The ones that did faced consequences. It's amusing to me that people imagine the older generation all have discipline, a strong work ethic and respect everyone. |
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"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.
It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.
However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc.
I concur. 100%. Not something to be forced to do except in extremis. Without being remotely cynical I don't want to serve alongside anyone who doesn't want to be there, or isn't suitable. I NEED to be able to put my like in the hands of the person next to me - and vice versa. I'm all for some form of service to the nation, just not military service, unless it's voluntary on the part of the individual. Better to have a few who are actually there because they want to serve the rest of the nation. "
Isn't working and paying tax a service to the nation? |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.
I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.
Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.
Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.
We both worked with teenagers. Very few lacked respect and even fewer lacked discipline. The ones that did faced consequences. It's amusing to me that people imagine the older generation all have discipline, a strong work ethic and respect everyone. "
It amuses me that so many people chat on like they themselves did conscripted national service. I didn't realise so many set their ages THAT far from reality |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.
Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….
BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.
It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters. "
By the way…… I didn’t say serve in the military. I said serve in the military or the emergency services…….Fire brigade, police, paramedics, hospitals? I also didn’t say I’m right. I just said it’s my opinion. I don’t think the military is for everyone.
Maybe national service should be compulsory with certain exceptions (I don’t know what they would be) I don’t know how it would be funded…… maybe by not paying benefits to all the people that would be on the dole if they weren’t doing national service? |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.
I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.
Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.
Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.
We both worked with teenagers. Very few lacked respect and even fewer lacked discipline. The ones that did faced consequences. It's amusing to me that people imagine the older generation all have discipline, a strong work ethic and respect everyone.
It amuses me that so many people chat on like they themselves did conscripted national service. I didn't realise so many set their ages THAT far from reality "
My dad as you know was born in 1927. He wasn't allowed to do national service as he'd been exposed to radiation. He started work at 14 (during WW2) and continued until he was 70. Remains respectful and shows respect to everyone. Incredibly all without state intervention. |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.
Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.
True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.
I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.
Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.
Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.
We both worked with teenagers. Very few lacked respect and even fewer lacked discipline. The ones that did faced consequences. It's amusing to me that people imagine the older generation all have discipline, a strong work ethic and respect everyone.
It amuses me that so many people chat on like they themselves did conscripted national service. I didn't realise so many set their ages THAT far from reality
My dad as you know was born in 1927. He wasn't allowed to do national service as he'd been exposed to radiation. He started work at 14 (during WW2) and continued until he was 70. Remains respectful and shows respect to everyone. Incredibly all without state intervention. "
Whereas frankly, my Dad is a bit of a dick but did do national service! I wish national service had taught him a bunch of useful life skills. Learning how to fire a gun and iron stuff hasn't really enhanced his life. He does, bizarrely, remember his number though. He can't remember how to lock a door but does know that |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.
Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….
BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.
It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters.
By the way…… I didn’t say serve in the military. I said serve in the military or the emergency services…….Fire brigade, police, paramedics, hospitals? I also didn’t say I’m right. I just said it’s my opinion. I don’t think the military is for everyone.
Maybe national service should be compulsory with certain exceptions (I don’t know what they would be) I don’t know how it would be funded…… maybe by not paying benefits to all the people that would be on the dole if they weren’t doing national service? "
Young people in work or education far outnumber those on benefits, I don't think that's the amswer. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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For anyone wanting to become a serving member of parliament then yes I absolutely agree…for those of us who just want to crack on with life enjoy it then no..leave us be |
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If you think about it, it's as arbitrary and illogical as forcing every single school leaver to do a PhD in biochemistry.
Being a soldier is a vocational profession. The army is a highly-specialised workplace. This is not well understood by headbangers who think it should be used as a blunt tool to punish anyone they reckon isn't as "hard" as they are. |
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By *ild_oatsMan 36 weeks ago
the land of saints & sinners |
The people who propose the return of national service either civil or military on the whole tend to also advocate longer prison sentences or the return of capital punishment.
These are very simplistic solutions that are encouraged by popularist politicians and tabloids to increase their influence by the use of dog whistle politics.
What is actually needed are complex solutions and often a multifaceted approach that often seems counter intuitive. There are plenty of examples of where this works and the whip crack approach does not.
This however does not sell newspapers or increase votes at the ballot box.
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I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.
There is only one demographic who persistently advocates for mandatory national service. It is a demographic whose favourite political solutions are always very simple and don't require them, personally, to do anything. |
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No. I am a pacifist so would never fight in any war. |
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"I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.
There is only one demographic who persistently advocates for mandatory national service. It is a demographic whose favourite political solutions are always very simple and don't require them, personally, to do anything."
You are making a lot of assumptions how can you say that it's always a certain demographic, what's your evidence to back to this up please? |
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"Respect isn't taught in the armed forces. Fear is."
Have you served |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Ex raf and no they don’t teach fear, however they do teach, discipline, respect, teamwork, responsibility for ones actions, trades, compassion, and in most cases self respect and dignity. Yes national service should be mandatory, straight after a levels for two years. Would transform our younger generation. 6 weeks basic training and all the moaning about what colour there day is ! |
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"Ex raf and no they don’t teach fear, however they do teach, discipline, respect, teamwork, responsibility for ones actions, trades, compassion, and in most cases self respect and dignity. Yes national service should be mandatory, straight after a levels for two years. Would transform our younger generation. 6 weeks basic training and all the moaning about what colour there day is !"
Are the virtues you describe possessed by everyone who's ever served in the armed forces and only instilled by doing so?
Serious question, why do you believe the younger generation need transforming? |
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"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.
However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.
I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.
Everyone? No exceptions?
Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.
Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….
BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.
It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters.
By the way…… I didn’t say serve in the military. I said serve in the military or the emergency services…….Fire brigade, police, paramedics, hospitals? I also didn’t say I’m right. I just said it’s my opinion. I don’t think the military is for everyone.
Maybe national service should be compulsory with certain exceptions (I don’t know what they would be) I don’t know how it would be funded…… maybe by not paying benefits to all the people that would be on the dole if they weren’t doing national service? "
Who would pay for people to work on the emergency services? Also, do you know how competitive it is to become a paramedic, and now you want to let anyone do it? |
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"I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.
There is only one demographic who persistently advocates for mandatory national service. It is a demographic whose favourite political solutions are always very simple and don't require them, personally, to do anything."
Absolutely this, the world is complicated, there are no simple solutions.
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As an ex regular and current reservist, I don't think mandatory conscription for the regular armed forces is the way to go, But do agree that the armed forces is woefully undermanned and underfunded, maybe something along the lines of increasing the reserves, a mandatory amount of weekends, like some other European country's, on a just incase scenario |
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By *batMan 36 weeks ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
On previous threads, you had people bemoaning the state of policing in the UK, the lack of proper vetting, the inclusion of the wrong people.
Now some are advocating for conscription into the police.
Regardless of some people's opinions, policing, fire service, paramedic, ambulance technician, they are all highly skilled jobs with a very competitive entry process. Those professions turn away thousands of people who are trying hard to get in as they don't yet cut the mustard. But hey ho, let's pay a bunch of people who don't want to be there to do a job that's really quite vocational.
"in my day, (when we didn't have NS) there was none of this youngsters having 'feelings and emotions', just a desire to work really hard for the Queen, God bless her soul." [Polishes rose tinted specs and pours another cuppa]
Gbat |
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"I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.
There is only one demographic who persistently advocates for mandatory national service. It is a demographic whose favourite political solutions are always very simple and don't require them, personally, to do anything.
You are making a lot of assumptions how can you say that it's always a certain demographic, what's your evidence to back to this up please?"
I mean, I don't really need evidence:
The idea of "national service for everyone" is an objectively simplistic solution to what is also objectively a nuanced set of complex problems. And therefore a certain failure.
Anyone who knows anything about political history will know that it's the kind of broad-stroke, crowd-pleasing rhetoric favoured by demagogues and their followers (see also "send them back", "lock them up", "bring back hanging" etc.), not by progressives. |
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"I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.
There is only one demographic who persistently advocates for mandatory national service. It is a demographic whose favourite political solutions are always very simple and don't require them, personally, to do anything.
You are making a lot of assumptions how can you say that it's always a certain demographic, what's your evidence to back to this up please?
I mean, I don't really need evidence:
The idea of "national service for everyone" is an objectively simplistic solution to what is also objectively a nuanced set of complex problems. And therefore a certain failure.
Anyone who knows anything about political history will know that it's the kind of broad-stroke, crowd-pleasing rhetoric favoured by demagogues and their followers (see also "send them back", "lock them up", "bring back hanging" etc.), not by progressives."
Well said |
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By *rx1Couple 36 weeks ago
North of Okehampton, South of Bideford |
Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!
The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.
We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority
We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.
PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol. |
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By (user no longer on site) 36 weeks ago
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Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.
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You honestly wouldn't want me to have a gun I suffer from ADHD and have frequent black outs so some people shouldn't be made to go into the military |
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"Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!
The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.
We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority
We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.
PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol."
You’re welcome, you chose to serve and therefore you should get the appropriate pension. It’s not going to be even close to the amount you’re paying for mine  |
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"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.
"
Who are? |
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"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.
"
Shouldn't you be working? |
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"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.
Who are? "
Middle aged men who wank on company time, instead of being productive. I've come across loads online over the years.
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I think military is a good form of discipline and trains you for so much. I spent most of my younger life in military life and I am a better man for it so I think yes military should be a highly chosen career for some individuals |
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"Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!
The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.
We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority
We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.
PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol."
All joking aside: yes, forced labour is against human rights, and it's hardly a stretch to imagine that it would be harmful to a person's mental health to be put in that position. Is it that you disagree with that, or that you don't care?
It may not have done you any harm, but as you say, you chose to do it. I wonder if you'd be so cavalier about your own rights and health if the government forced you into a career you wouldn't have chosen. |
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"Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!
The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.
We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority
We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.
PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol.
All joking aside: yes, forced labour is against human rights, and it's hardly a stretch to imagine that it would be harmful to a person's mental health to be put in that position. Is it that you disagree with that, or that you don't care?
It may not have done you any harm, but as you say, you chose to do it. I wonder if you'd be so cavalier about your own rights and health if the government forced you into a career you wouldn't have chosen."
And therein lies the problem |
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"I think military is a good form of discipline and trains you for so much. I spent most of my younger life in military life and I am a better man for it so I think yes military should be a highly chosen career for some individuals "
No issue at all with the above comment
Operative term however being...'Chosen Career.'
Freedom of choice! Come on in. The water's lovely |
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"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.
"
“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” Plato (attributed to Socrates), 4th century BCE |
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I still want to know how we pay for all of this.
Should we just cut the road repair budget? That might do it. We don't need better roads.
Or schools. Or other public services. None of them are falling the fuck apart  |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 36 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
Its been an interesting discussion everyone. I have done a new thread that we can continue on |
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By *hagTonight OP Man 36 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
Its been an interesting discussion everyone |
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