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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I do not know about financial politics or matters. The Europaen parliament want to take 10% of peoples bank savings in Cyprus to pay off the debts of Cyprus.
If I had money invested or savings in any european country aligned to the euro I would immediately withdraw it and put it in a safer environment (Britain, USA, Swiss etc.) This loss of finance would cause a financial crisis within the EU.
WTF is going on?
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"A bit scary, innit.
A small country with a big banking sector, in the Eurozone and with oil and gas offshore being 'wooed' by the Russians.
Who does that remind people of?
Scotland?....."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A bit scary, innit.
A small country with a big banking sector, in the Eurozone and with oil and gas offshore being 'wooed' by the Russians.
Who does that remind people of?
Scotland?....."
Alex Trout and his bloody Nationalists.....want all that Scottish oil for themselves.....  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"A bit scary, innit.
A small country with a big banking sector, in the Eurozone and with oil and gas offshore being 'wooed' by the Russians.
Who does that remind people of?
Scotland?.....
Alex Trout and his bloody Nationalists.....want all that Scottish oil for themselves..... "
aye, they're mair like sardines. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Notice how every bank in the country has been kept closed, to stop anyone removing any amount of cash though.
Dont worry though, no way is Dave going to do anything to upset his mates. "
watched a tv progaramme a while back about the bank of dave....did not realise he had sunk all his cash into Cyptus  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I hope I am not showing my ignorance here.
The euro currency seems doomed to me. How can countries with different economic and social goals be aligned to the same currency. Historically, if a countrys economy got into difficulties they had to devalue their own currency.
I think it is only a matter of time before the euro collapses and everyone reverts to their own currency. The thing is, why don't the people with 10 times my brainpower see that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Germany has wanted total power in Europe for almost 100 years.
It now has that power and has no intentions to give it up.
Say what you like, but Angela is not for turning, and you all know what the last woman with that attitude did to those in opposition. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Germany has wanted total power in Europe for almost 100 years.
It now has that power and has no intentions to give it up.
Say what you like, but Angela is not for turning, and you all know what the last woman with that attitude did to those in opposition."
Love it  |
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Merkel may indeed wish for greater political 'unity' within the EU but the threat of the Cypriot levy and their refusal to roll over may just drive them out of the Euro and into some sort of alliance with Russia..
all a big bag of bollocks.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Eurozone will not collapse in my view yes there maybe some that leave. Our government use the issues with it to deflect away from the fact they have fucked us over and easy to blame rest of europe.
The pound has been struggling for ages and thats nowt to do with the euro.
At this moment in time i would rather have german economy than ours. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Eurozone will not collapse in my view yes there maybe some that leave. Our government use the issues with it to deflect away from the fact they have fucked us over and easy to blame rest of europe.
The pound has been struggling for ages and thats nowt to do with the euro.
At this moment in time i would rather have german economy than ours."
Sorry, I may not have made it clear that I think the 'euro currency' may be in danger of collapse.
Another thing that concerns me is that people who know how economic prosperity is brought about have downgraded our credit rating. Surely this means that they do not have confidence in the policies this government is persuing.  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Eurozone will not collapse in my view yes there maybe some that leave. Our government use the issues with it to deflect away from the fact they have fucked us over and easy to blame rest of europe.
The pound has been struggling for ages and thats nowt to do with the euro.
At this moment in time i would rather have german economy than ours.
Sorry, I may not have made it clear that I think the 'euro currency' may be in danger of collapse.
Another thing that concerns me is that people who know how economic prosperity is brought about have downgraded our credit rating. Surely this means that they do not have confidence in the policies this government is persuing. "
Nobody outside 11 Downing Street (and maybe some inside #11) has any confidence in the policies this government is pursuing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is what happens when people who don't know much about it start talking...... Cyprus is a tax haven for a lot of hot money from Russian business and individuals. Berlin does not wish to spend money on supporting Russian corruption (quite right too)
The cypriot parliament has voted against the Levy, so it won't happen in it's current form, besides people with less than €100k were due to be levied around 6% while those with more paid approx 9.5%.
The banks are closed not to restrict the flow of cash inside the economy but to prevent the flow of hot money offshore. such a run would completely decapitalise already ailing banks and require further bail out funds. The cypriot govt is.currently putting capital controls in place to limit rapid capital liquidations.......which probably won't work.
It's not Germany that's the biggest threat to either this country or others in Europe, it's the rich. It's not the poor who cost most in benefits it's the rich in tax avoidance. Germany has the most successful economy in Europe (nee the world) because they ignore 1/4ly targets and place much higher emphasis on 5 and 10 year yields. It would be fucking marvelous if Germany had the inclination to dominate Europe, we'd be far better off than under this shower, unfortunately German attention is focussed much more on the East than on the West...... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"This is what happens when people who don't know much about it start talking...... Cyprus is a tax haven for a lot of hot money from Russian business and individuals. Berlin does not wish to spend money on supporting Russian corruption (quite right too)
The cypriot parliament has voted against the Levy, so it won't happen in it's current form, besides people with less than €100k were due to be levied around 6% while those with more paid approx 9.5%.
The banks are closed not to restrict the flow of cash inside the economy but to prevent the flow of hot money offshore. such a run would completely decapitalise already ailing banks and require further bail out funds. The cypriot govt is.currently putting capital controls in place to limit rapid capital liquidations.......which probably won't work.
It's not Germany that's the biggest threat to either this country or others in Europe, it's the rich. It's not the poor who cost most in benefits it's the rich in tax avoidance. Germany has the most successful economy in Europe (nee the world) because they ignore 1/4ly targets and place much higher emphasis on 5 and 10 year yields. It would be fucking marvelous if Germany had the inclination to dominate Europe, we'd be far better off than under this shower, unfortunately German attention is focussed much more on the East than on the West......"
I respect what you say, but why are the banks cash machines limiting withdrawals to the public? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what happens when people who don't know much about it start talking...... Cyprus is a tax haven for a lot of hot money from Russian business and individuals. Berlin does not wish to spend mogTney on supporting Russian corruption (quite right too)
The cypriot parliament has voted against the Levy, so it won't happen in it's current form, besides people with less than €100k were due to be levied around 6% while those with more paid approx 9.5%.
The banks are closed not to restrict the flow of cash inside the economy but to prevent the flow of hot money offshore. such a run would completely decapitalise already ailing banks and require further bail out funds. The cypriot govt is.currently putting capital controls in place to limit rapid capital liquidations.......which probably won't work.
It's not Germany that's the biggest threat to either this country or others in Europe, it's the rich. It's not the poor who cost most in benefits it's the rich in tax avoidance. Germany has the most successful economy in Europe (nee the world) because they ignore 1/4ly targets and place much higher emphasis on 5 and 10 year yields. It would be fucking marvelous if Germany had the inclination to dominate Europe, we'd be far better off than under this shower, unfortunately German attention is focussed much more on the East than on the West......
I respect what you say, but why are the banks cash machines limiting withdrawals to the public?"
Reasonable question. think of it this way
If there was a bank with 10 savers 1 with 1000 currency units and the other 9 with 200, the Bank would have assets of 2800 currency units. the EU rules, under the Basel III agreement, say that only 10% of the banks assets have to be held as cash (against withdrawals and losses for bad loans like the sub prime market failure) so the bank can lend our 90% of the 2900 units it holds as assets. (When you give your money to the bank, it doesn't just sit in a vault it gets used to loan at a profit for things like mortgages and such).
Now if there was just the normal withdraw limit of, say 50 currency units, it would take only 6 people to withdraw all of the money they can (50 each being 300 units) to make the bank insolvent (ie not having the ready funds to pay the bills) and the bank fails. That means all the people who have borrowed from the bank have to pay all their loan back on demand, perhaps making them bankrupt, which means the depositors loose all of their money too (because the bank can't get the money from the creditors who owe them money) so everyone looses.
That's why the bank has put in place a withdrawal limit (in this case of say 10 units).
Under the EU rules most small deposits are protected by guarantee (£65k or there abouts in the UK). In our example let's call that guarantee 300 units.
All the savers would have their money covered by the government if the bank failed, but the guy who has 1000 units would only get 300 of his 1000 so if the bank failed he's gonna loose 700 units. He will want to move that 700 or even all of the 1000 to a different bank. But that is more than the 290 that the bank has to pay him so he can make the bank fail all on his own!
Years ago, during the time when the banks and the rich didn't have the politicians in there pockets there were rules on how much money could be moved from a bank at one time (capital controls) and also from a country but that would break our example.....at the same time there were much higher capital ratios (the 10% we covered earlier on) but Thatcher (and other devotees of monetarist policy around the world) removed all of those controls in what was known as the big bang that "set the banks free" and sowed the seeds of the crisis we see today...that's not a party point as labour didn't put the controls back in place but they didn't set the conditions for a housing bubble either.....but that's slightly off the point.
The withdrawal limit is there to allow people enough money to live on but to stop everyone from withdrawing all of their money at once and the system from collapsing...... I hope that's clear enough....... |
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the Russian and Ukrainian Mafia have serious money invested in Cyprus banks. No way are they going to let the banks steal some of it. Well not without getting revenge.
This is nothing more than theft. Sadly if the banker get away with it they will do it on other countries.
The Cypriots have been told accept the deal and lose a little bit of money. Do not except the deal and your banks will never open again and you will lose everything. So add bullying and threats to the theft.
It's time we started jailing those bankers. They have been going into to work and behaving like they are in a casino. They accepted massive bonuses when winning but expect us taxpayers to bail them out now they have lost money.
Cyprus could be that start of the collapse of the banking system worldwide. If people lose confidence in the banks and remove their money we are in massive trouble. |
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"I hope I am not showing my ignorance here.
The euro currency seems doomed to me. How can countries with different economic and social goals be aligned to the same currency. Historically, if a countrys economy got into difficulties they had to devalue their own currency.
I think it is only a matter of time before the euro collapses and everyone reverts to their own currency. The thing is, why don't the people with 10 times my brainpower see that?"
They can see it they just won't admit it. The Euro was never going to work for reasons you stated and some more. I am so glad we kept the pound. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't disagree that banking is a massive problem in most modern economies, but no one seems to accept their own role.
The banks Lent far to much money because we borrowed it. They lent 110% mortgages because we borrowed them. It's not the banks fault that we have lost our savings culture it's our own.
We don't have to live in a consumer culture with holidays and new cars every year, at least 50% of this crisis is our own fault it takes two parties to sign a contract..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't disagree that banking is a massive problem in most modern economies, but no one seems to accept their own role.
The banks Lent far to much money because we borrowed it. They lent 110% mortgages because we borrowed them. It's not the banks fault that we have lost our savings culture it's our own.
Thank goodness, some balanced and factual comments on the economy as opposed to the usual blame this party or that party rants.
We all have responsibility for this crisis due to our must have culture.
We don't have to live in a consumer culture with holidays and new cars every year, at least 50% of this crisis is our own fault it takes two parties to sign a contract....."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope I am not showing my ignorance here.
The euro currency seems doomed to me. How can countries with different economic and social goals be aligned to the same currency. Historically, if a countrys economy got into difficulties they had to devalue their own currency.
I think it is only a matter of time before the euro collapses and everyone reverts to their own currency. The thing is, why don't the people with 10 times my brainpower see that?"
Because the people with 10 times your brainpower can take steps to ensure it doesn't happen. Have you any idea of the costs the Eurozone countries will incur if they attempt to resort back to their original currencies? Plus the impact it will have on the world financial markets which will see it as a new currency, not an old one being reinstated, and they moneymen will mark the currency down as much as possible to make a killing on it.
The Eurozone countries opted to go in to the Euro and it's a one-way ticket, there is no pulling out of it, and there can be no forced ejection from it if one country is suffering hard economic times. They're in it together.
As for the 10% raid on Cypriot savings: it has been kicked firmly into touch, and rightly so. Your contract with your bank should ensure your personal wealth is safe from govt raids. |
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By *ohohoWoman
over a year ago
Up North |
Cyprus is a tax haven, this along with very favourable interest rates it was obviously going to get in trouble at some stage. The question would always be when rather than if.
It is wrong to target those with savings. They are easy targets. But in my humble opinion they need to look at many aspects of how they tax there. It won't be easy and I certainly don't have a magic wand and can't advise exactly what they should do.
I have lived in various countries and they are all very different.
I am glad I don't have to make those tough decisions.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I hope I am not showing my ignorance here.
The euro currency seems doomed to me. How can countries with different economic and social goals be aligned to the same currency. Historically, if a countrys economy got into difficulties they had to devalue their own currency.
I think it is only a matter of time before the euro collapses and everyone reverts to their own currency. The thing is, why don't the people with 10 times my brainpower see that?
Because the people with 10 times your brainpower can take steps to ensure it doesn't happen. Have you any idea of the costs the Eurozone countries will incur if they attempt to resort back to their original currencies? Plus the impact it will have on the world financial markets which will see it as a new currency, not an old one being reinstated, and they moneymen will mark the currency down as much as possible to make a killing on it.
The Eurozone countries opted to go in to the Euro and it's a one-way ticket, there is no pulling out of it, and there can be no forced ejection from it if one country is suffering hard economic times. They're in it together.
As for the 10% raid on Cypriot savings: it has been kicked firmly into touch, and rightly so. Your contract with your bank should ensure your personal wealth is safe from govt raids."
I think the eurozone countries will be forced to abandon the euro if it slides on the money markets. It would mean a massive world crisis and the costs would be astronomical, but I do not see an alternative because of the structure of different economies within the zone. If the Cypriot government decide to comply with tax on savings (this mornings news) I would expect any person or institution to extract their monies from the eurozone. (I do not hear anything about this on the news and I am probably wrong, but it just makes sense to me) |
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does seem like a very strong message to the next country wanting a bail out that there may be consequences in asking..
more cuts please and follow the IMF's policy of privatisation and 'labour reform'..
Cyprus in GDP terms is small beer within the euro, had they said no and left probably no big deal..
Germany's economy with its labour laws, living standards etc versus some of the other economies in Europe its a no brainer.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If the Germans left there would be no one to pay the bills......"
One can only admire the German assimilation of 28 million East Germans into their economy without complaint. Let's hope they can show the same resolve with the eurozone. |
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"This is what happens when people who don't know much about it start talking...... Cyprus is a tax haven for a lot of hot money from Russian business and individuals. Berlin does not wish to spend money on supporting Russian corruption (quite right too)
The cypriot parliament has voted against the Levy, so it won't happen in it's current form, besides people with less than €100k were due to be levied around 6% while those with more paid approx 9.5%.
The banks are closed not to restrict the flow of cash inside the economy but to prevent the flow of hot money offshore. such a run would completely decapitalise already ailing banks and require further bail out funds. The cypriot govt is.currently putting capital controls in place to limit rapid capital liquidations.......which probably won't work.
It's not Germany that's the biggest threat to either this country or others in Europe, it's the rich. It's not the poor who cost most in benefits it's the rich in tax avoidance. Germany has the most successful economy in Europe (nee the world) because they ignore 1/4ly targets and place much higher emphasis on 5 and 10 year yields. It would be fucking marvelous if Germany had the inclination to dominate Europe, we'd be far better off than under this shower, unfortunately German attention is focussed much more on the East than on the West......"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If the Germans left there would be no one to pay the bills......
One can only admire the German assimilation of 28 million East Germans into their economy without complaint. Let's hope they can show the same resolve with the eurozone."
yes, 'west Germans' have significantly reduced their spending power, relative to what it would have been and 'east Germans' are significantly more wealthy now than they were before reunification, what with their efficient industry and largely rebuilt country.
Geography is inexorable, stop reading the papers and start reading the statistical analysis that Murdoch and his chums won't tell you about? |
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"This is what happens when people who don't know much about it start talking...... Cyprus is a tax haven for a lot of hot money from Russian business and individuals. Berlin does not wish to spend money on supporting Russian corruption (quite right too)
The cypriot parliament has voted against the Levy, so it won't happen in it's current form, besides people with less than €100k were due to be levied around 6% while those with more paid approx 9.5%.
The banks are closed not to restrict the flow of cash inside the economy but to prevent the flow of hot money offshore. such a run would completely decapitalise already ailing banks and require further bail out funds. The cypriot govt is.currently putting capital controls in place to limit rapid capital liquidations.......which probably won't work.
It's not Germany that's the biggest threat to either this country or others in Europe, it's the rich. It's not the poor who cost most in benefits it's the rich in tax avoidance. Germany has the most successful economy in Europe (nee the world) because they ignore 1/4ly targets and place much higher emphasis on 5 and 10 year yields. It would be fucking marvelous if Germany had the inclination to dominate Europe, we'd be far better off than under this shower, unfortunately German attention is focussed much more on the East than on the West...... "
this bit about the east is that leibenrome there still on about cos that caused some shit |
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