FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Allow 20 year old cars to be tax exempt
Allow 20 year old cars to be tax exempt
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By *orny PT OP Man 43 weeks ago
Peterborough |
I've just signed a petition called "Reduce Vehicle Tax for cars aged between 20 and 40 years old".
(petitions/654884), not sure if I can post a uk dot gov link on here.
Currently a classic car is over 40 years for tax exemption purposes
As an owner of a car that will be 20 years old in a couple of years, this will save me about £160 every 6 months. A no-brainer really.
7,080 signatures so far.
At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition.
At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament.
This needs to reach those targets before 22 July 2024, so not much time left.
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"I've just signed a petition called "Reduce Vehicle Tax for cars aged between 20 and 40 years old".
(petitions/654884), not sure if I can post a uk dot gov link on here.
Currently a classic car is over 40 years for tax exemption purposes
As an owner of a car that will be 20 years old in a couple of years, this will save me about £160 every 6 months. A no-brainer really.
7,080 signatures so far.
At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition.
At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament.
This needs to reach those targets before 22 July 2024, so not much time left.
"
Money saving is a benefit to you, what about the benefit to others?
Cars still produce emissions no matter the age of it, if nor more emissions than newer cars so no, I don't agree |
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Way back in years gone by 20 year old cars would struggle to stay on the road. Hence the classic car exemption. They were true classics and were only taken to shows etc.
But now a 20 year old car tends to be a lot better built so can be used as a regular car in a way a classic car isn’t.
I hate the fact I have paid a large amount of money for an asset that reduces in value and sits on my drive or in a car park for 95% of the time I own it.
The sooner we improve public transport and car club schemes extend everywhere not just cities the sooner I can get rid of the thing. |
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I've owned some classic vans in the past, and the youngest was 30 years old at the time. In those days, 30 years was the cutoff.
However, a 2004 Vauxhall Vectra (for example) is hardly in the same league as an original Mini or Beetle. |
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"I've owned some classic vans in the past, and the youngest was 30 years old at the time. In those days, 30 years was the cutoff.
However, a 2004 Vauxhall Vectra (for example) is hardly in the same league as an original Mini or Beetle."
But why should someone who is actively using the roads, pay less tax than me ? If this happens, the lost revenue would have to be made up, and I would probably end up paying more road tax in the future. |
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"I have 2 machines that are road registered, neither of them have to pay VED or have to have an MOT and neither of them falls into the ‘classic’ category  "
Aye but your tractor isn't the most practical day to day run around, is it? |
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"I have 2 machines that are road registered, neither of them have to pay VED or have to have an MOT and neither of them falls into the ‘classic’ category
Aye but your tractor isn't the most practical day to day run around, is it?"
They certainly don’t design car parks with them in mind, I know that |
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By *TG3Man 43 weeks ago
Dorchester |
"Out of curiosity, why should someone pay less road tax than me, just because their car is older ?"
exactly not even sure why cars that are 40 years or older are exempt surely they must be close to rusting away |
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"I have 2 machines that are road registered, neither of them have to pay VED or have to have an MOT and neither of them falls into the ‘classic’ category
Aye but your tractor isn't the most practical day to day run around, is it?
They certainly don’t design car parks with them in mind, I know that "
I originally typed out something about NCP car parks and your tractor but couldn't make it witty enough  |
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"
But why should someone who is actively using the roads, pay less tax than me ? If this happens, the lost revenue would have to be made up, and I would probably end up paying more road tax in the future."
They shouldn't generally, because there's a very good chance that the older vehicles will be more polluting.
With older classics, the idea was because they tend to be saved for car shows and occasional use, rather than a daily driver.
My own car is tax exempt due it's low emissions ratings, and I drive about 200 miles a week - it was part of the reason I bought it. |
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By *ornycougaWoman 43 weeks ago
Wherever I lay my hat |
Fuck right off. I had a 10 year old 'clean' diesel with 20 pounds a year road tax that Khan decreed was actually a 'dirty' beast so I had to pay 12.50 every time I moved it 6 inches because of the ULEZ 
I am not bitter. At. All. |
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Taxes don't necessarily pay for the things that we may assume that they will. When tax cuts are given to some - typically the wealthier in the UK and US - the rest of society pays proportionately more, or else state services are cut.
Presently, our services have been hit by underinvestment. We need to reverse this, to prevent irrecoverable damage.
It seems reasonable that those vehicles using roads and imposing damage, including air pollution that kills and harms people, and costs added to other public services, should contribute towards them.
OP didn't explain to me why you shouldn't pay |
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By *orny PT OP Man 43 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"Out of curiosity, why should someone pay less road tax than me, just because their car is older ?"
Because they've paid enough over the years and some of them only come out of storage on bank holiday/exhibition days. |
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By *orny PT OP Man 43 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"Way back in years gone by 20 year old cars would struggle to stay on the road. Hence the classic car exemption. They were true classics and were only taken to shows etc.
But now a 20 year old car tends to be a lot better built so can be used as a regular car in a way a classic car isn’t.
I hate the fact I have paid a large amount of money for an asset that reduces in value and sits on my drive or in a car park for 95% of the time I own it.
The sooner we improve public transport and car club schemes extend everywhere not just cities the sooner I can get rid of the thing."
Choice is important. As for extending the life of older vehicles, this has to be a good thing. We need a serious investment in public transport. Giving up on HS2 was a disaster, as was letting Stagecoach and the like having a monopoly. |
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By *ndycoinsMan 43 weeks ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
Isn't it better to encourage people (through financial incentive) to keep vehicles on the road for longer instead of exchanging them for new ones every couple of years?.A diesel will easily do 500k if its looked after properly instead of scrapping it after 150k to buy a new one.If ULEZ was all about pollution why is Nightmayor Khan sending non ULEZ compliant cars to Ukraine,do they magically not pollute over there? |
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I'd love it if my little year 2000 k11 micra were tax exempt but, other than resenting paying tax in general, I can't think of a legitimate reason for it.
I'm still going to be signing that petition though! |
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"Out of curiosity, why should someone pay less road tax than me, just because their car is older ?
Because they've paid enough over the years and some of them only come out of storage on bank holiday/exhibition days."
I mean... you can tax your car for car shows and then cancel it but, it is a pain in the arse. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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Out of curiosity why should a pensioner who uses an old tiny car maybe twice a week for shoping pay thr same, or more, then someone with a larger/heavier car with a massive engine and a few hundred miles a week?
The proper way to tax any vehicle is it scrap road tax and put an extra duty on fuel so that we pay for the amount of damage we do to the roads and the environment.
And before the criticism starts my neighbour pays Around £300 a year in tax and goes out twice a week. I go out daily and do around 50 miles a day and the tax on mine is £0.
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I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important?? |
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"What about paying less Council Tax if your house is older ?
Exactly, or less income tax because older people have paid more into the system over the years"
I would definitely sign a petition for this  |
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"I don’t understand why everyone is getting so uptight - if you want to avoid the tax then buy an older car. If you don’t want an older car then you forgo the benefit."
I think it's perhaps people who want two cars but only want to pay for one |
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By *TG3Man 43 weeks ago
Dorchester |
"I don’t understand why everyone is getting so uptight - if you want to avoid the tax then buy an older car. If you don’t want an older car then you forgo the benefit.
I think it's perhaps people who want two cars but only want to pay for one"
ahhhh bogof |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??"
The basis vosa work on is that the majority of 40+ year old cars are loved and cherished by enthusiasts and they are taken care of just as much as a new one, and certainly more than a 20 year old one being run into the ground. |
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"The basis vosa work on is that the majority of 40+ year old cars are loved and cherished by enthusiasts and they are taken care of just as much as a new one, and certainly more than a 20 year old one being run into the ground."
Bingo. The 20-year idea is ridiculous. |
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By *TinRedCouple 43 weeks ago
Reading |
Cars should be taxed by mileage, including electric vehicles.
I run 3 cars, and in total do about 7000 miles between the 3. Yet I have to pay 3 times more road tax than someone running up and down a motorway in a diesel doing 20k a year...
They should double the road tax cost, unless you want to opt into a scheme where you get charged by the mile! Our phones pretty much track everywhere we go anyways...
And don't even get me started on electric cars!!! |
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"Cars should be taxed by mileage, including electric vehicles.
I run 3 cars, and in total do about 7000 miles between the 3. Yet I have to pay 3 times more road tax than someone running up and down a motorway in a diesel doing 20k a year...
They should double the road tax cost, unless you want to opt into a scheme where you get charged by the mile! Our phones pretty much track everywhere we go anyways...
And don't even get me started on electric cars!!! "
They already are given the huge duty on fuel, use more & pay more. |
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By *TinRedCouple 43 weeks ago
Reading |
"Cars should be taxed by mileage, including electric vehicles.
I run 3 cars, and in total do about 7000 miles between the 3. Yet I have to pay 3 times more road tax than someone running up and down a motorway in a diesel doing 20k a year...
They should double the road tax cost, unless you want to opt into a scheme where you get charged by the mile! Our phones pretty much track everywhere we go anyways...
And don't even get me started on electric cars!!!
They already are given the huge duty on fuel, use more & pay more. "
Which makes even more sense to get rid of road tax full stop! It doesn't even go towards maintaining the roads these days anyways! |
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"Out of curiosity, why should someone pay less road tax than me, just because their car is older ?
Because they've paid enough over the years and some of them only come out of storage on bank holiday/exhibition days."
Shame they can't use that reason on our OAPS instead increasing retirement age or making it so they have to work. |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Cars should be taxed by mileage, including electric vehicles.
I run 3 cars, and in total do about 7000 miles between the 3. Yet I have to pay 3 times more road tax than someone running up and down a motorway in a diesel doing 20k a year...
They should double the road tax cost, unless you want to opt into a scheme where you get charged by the mile! Our phones pretty much track everywhere we go anyways...
And don't even get me started on electric cars!!!
They already are given the huge duty on fuel, use more & pay more.
Which makes even more sense to get rid of road tax full stop! It doesn't even go towards maintaining the roads these days anyways!"
They got rid of road tax in the 1930s |
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30-40 plus years but not 20, as people have pointed out surely they must be worse for the environment and roads then newer cars and most 20 year old cars will be used daily not like a 40 year old car.
If they charged by the mile wouldn't the cost of everything we use/buy go up ?
Also small contractors/self employed etc would have to pass the extra cost onto us |
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By (user no longer on site) 43 weeks ago
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"Custardchucker. Only so they could divert it without legal constraints, its very much seen as road tax but not by name. "
Misunderstanding doesn't make something a thing |
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"I've just signed a petition called "Reduce Vehicle Tax for cars aged between 20 and 40 years old".
(petitions/654884), not sure if I can post a uk dot gov link on here.
Currently a classic car is over 40 years for tax exemption purposes
As an owner of a car that will be 20 years old in a couple of years, this will save me about £160 every 6 months. A no-brainer really.
7,080 signatures so far.
At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition.
At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament.
This needs to reach those targets before 22 July 2024, so not much time left.
"
Realistically, it's the older cars they want off the road. All of the scrappage schemes are designed around people trading in their old vehicle against a new "clean" one.
The problem obviously with this line of thought though, is that people with cars in excess of 10 year old are unlikely to be able to afford a new car, and the older & more polluting their existing car, the further they will be from affording a NEW one.
A much better option would be a scrappage scheme that paid enough on old vehicles to allow them to "trade up" to something cleaner without it needing to be NEW
Cal |
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"Out of curiosity, why should someone pay less road tax than me, just because their car is older ?"
This was my first thought. Arguably as they have been on the road longer, they have used the roads more, so should they pay higher tax? |
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"Out of curiosity, why should someone pay less road tax than me, just because their car is older ?
This was my first thought. Arguably as they have been on the road longer, they have used the roads more, so should they pay higher tax?"
"Car Tax" doesn't pay for roads directly, it is just part of general taxation. |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??"
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else. |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else. "
It is actually a licence requirement that your vehicle is roadworthy. People seem to assume that an MOT is a proxy for that (and I guess it is for most people) but if you don’t have an MOT to fall back on then I don’t think it is unreasonable for a driver to make sure their vehicle _actually_ works.
You are not doing that work for your peace of mind - you are doing that work to ensure you are in accordance with your licence. Plus to make sure you don’t kill anyone. |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else. "
That’s a sensible thing to do. Just because it doesn’t require an MOT it still has to be road worthy, if you were pulled in and it was deemed not to be road worthy you could still get done, or it could invalidate your insurance if you were to be involved in a road traffic accident and the vehicle was deemed unroadworthy.
By getting your once over done by an independent means you will have an invoice to show you have been keeping it serviced and inspected. |
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"Cars should be taxed by mileage, including electric vehicles.
I run 3 cars, and in total do about 7000 miles between the 3. Yet I have to pay 3 times more road tax than someone running up and down a motorway in a diesel doing 20k a year...
They should double the road tax cost, unless you want to opt into a scheme where you get charged by the mile! Our phones pretty much track everywhere we go anyways...
And don't even get me started on electric cars!!! "
Please don’t get anyone started on electric cars! Possibly the most boring conversation you can hear is 2 people arguing electric vs petrol or diesel  |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else.
That’s a sensible thing to do. Just because it doesn’t require an MOT it still has to be road worthy, if you were pulled in and it was deemed not to be road worthy you could still get done, or it could invalidate your insurance if you were to be involved in a road traffic accident and the vehicle was deemed unroadworthy.
By getting your once over done by an independent means you will have an invoice to show you have been keeping it serviced and inspected. "
PS, cracking nipples there Mrs |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else.
That’s a sensible thing to do. Just because it doesn’t require an MOT it still has to be road worthy, if you were pulled in and it was deemed not to be road worthy you could still get done, or it could invalidate your insurance if you were to be involved in a road traffic accident and the vehicle was deemed unroadworthy.
By getting your once over done by an independent means you will have an invoice to show you have been keeping it serviced and inspected. "
Makes total sense. |
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By *9alMan 43 weeks ago
Bridgend |
I own 2 classic cars that are over 40 years old they do very few miles & are well maintained, when the historic vehicle tax exemption first came out it was at 25 years old, Gordon Brown as chancellor froze it at 1976? the 40 year rule was relatively recent. some nice cars with relatively big engines can become very expensive to run as old but not yet Classic cars & are often scrapped prematurely & the heritage is lost |
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"strange thing is classic cars are MOT exempt ...that seems silly as you dont know if safe to drive."
I own two old VWs - in reality I know the state of both those vehicles far better than my modern car. All the vehicles are roadworthy and safe to drive but I spend far more time and money on the older ones. I think that’s pretty much standard behaviour for people who own old cars. |
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"Do cars between twenty and forty years old no longer cause wear and tear on the roads? Don't electric cars with no road tax cause wear and tear too ?"
Until this year and now gov.uk are about to slap them with RFL too.
Not so appealing now? |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else.
It is actually a licence requirement that your vehicle is roadworthy. People seem to assume that an MOT is a proxy for that (and I guess it is for most people) but if you don’t have an MOT to fall back on then I don’t think it is unreasonable for a driver to make sure their vehicle _actually_ works.
You are not doing that work for your peace of mind - you are doing that work to ensure you are in accordance with your licence. Plus to make sure you don’t kill anyone."
So you’d be happy to get rid of MOTs and rely on everyone giving there cars a “once over” ? |
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"Do cars between twenty and forty years old no longer cause wear and tear on the roads? Don't electric cars with no road tax cause wear and tear too ?"
It’s not road tax it’s vehicle excise duty, the roads are funded from your council tax |
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"Do cars between twenty and forty years old no longer cause wear and tear on the roads? Don't electric cars with no road tax cause wear and tear too ?
It’s not road tax it’s vehicle excise duty, the roads are funded from your council tax"
Yep, and I believe EV's will have to pay VED from April 2025 |
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"Do cars between twenty and forty years old no longer cause wear and tear on the roads? Don't electric cars with no road tax cause wear and tear too ?
It’s not road tax it’s vehicle excise duty, the roads are funded from your council tax"
Only some roads, motorways and main A roads are the responsibility of Highways England and funded from central government |
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"I've owned some classic vans in the past, and the youngest was 30 years old at the time. In those days, 30 years was the cutoff.
However, a 2004 Vauxhall Vectra (for example) is hardly in the same league as an original Mini or Beetle.
But why should someone who is actively using the roads, pay less tax than me ? If this happens, the lost revenue would have to be made up, and I would probably end up paying more road tax in the future."
I which case, the whole road tax thing should be remoddled.
I'm currently looking for a weekend fun mobile, because its currently based on emissions, the tax could be up to £700 per year...i'll cover less than 3k per year in it- why should i have to pay way more than someone driving 15-20k per year? maybe make it £20 up to 5k per year, £100 to 10k, £200 to 20k and £300 above that...so the heavy users aren't being subsidised by the occasional user |
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Controversial opinion.
Given that All vehicles cause wear and tear to the roads that inevitably needs fixing thus costing money and all vehicles add to congestion thus resulting in higher pollution (even EV's and so called "clean" vehicles) then the way I see it the only fair option would be to pay tax per mile however given that the extortionate amount of fuel duty we pay in this country I suppose one could argue that drivers pay tax twice (assuming their vehicle is taxable)
Mr H |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else.
It is actually a licence requirement that your vehicle is roadworthy. People seem to assume that an MOT is a proxy for that (and I guess it is for most people) but if you don’t have an MOT to fall back on then I don’t think it is unreasonable for a driver to make sure their vehicle _actually_ works.
You are not doing that work for your peace of mind - you are doing that work to ensure you are in accordance with your licence. Plus to make sure you don’t kill anyone.
So you’d be happy to get rid of MOTs and rely on everyone giving there cars a “once over” ?"
 absolutely no idea how you managed to read that conclusion into what I wrote. If it helps a driver must have decent vision as part of his/her/their licence - you want might to get your eyesight checked |
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Something people don't realise is just because a vehicle is 40+ years mot exempt doesn't mean you can't have it mot'd, but...... if it fails its still illegal to drive it on the road (apart from to and from a mot centre or for repairs) until it passes a mot. |
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"I had a 1977 American with a 5.7 litre V8 which was tax & mot exempt, did fuck all to the gallon but I did less than 750 miles a year, the thing I don’t understand is the MOT Exemption, older cars tend to have sub standard brakes and suspension so you would assume an MOT would be more important??
We have a dodge from 1942. 3.5 tonnes, no power steering, crash gearbox and only 12 to the gallon. Doesn’t come out much so the road tax I get. But no MOT??? Seriously??? We have it given the once over every year for our own peace of mind if nothing else.
It is actually a licence requirement that your vehicle is roadworthy. People seem to assume that an MOT is a proxy for that (and I guess it is for most people) but if you don’t have an MOT to fall back on then I don’t think it is unreasonable for a driver to make sure their vehicle _actually_ works.
You are not doing that work for your peace of mind - you are doing that work to ensure you are in accordance with your licence. Plus to make sure you don’t kill anyone.
So you’d be happy to get rid of MOTs and rely on everyone giving there cars a “once over” ?"
When I say ‘we’ I mean the mechanic we have used for years. This guy knows his onions, he makes sure it’s roadworthy and services it every year. We don’t have to do it but we do. So not really sure where you’re coming from in all honesty. |
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Why not scrap road fund licence
Add few pence onto petrol diesel so more you drive more you pay
If pensioner only uses car1 shopping trip a week pay very little . Someone doing 20000 miles a year will pay more. Same someone small car will pay less some one large car more |
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By *orny PT OP Man 42 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"I thought they were going to abolish Road tax as we know at and make it a pay to use system"
It was never hypothecated/ring fenced, like the dreaded telly licence/tax/ That's the problem road tax, the fee for being on the road, doesn't fund them. |
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By *orny PT OP Man 42 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"Do cars between twenty and forty years old no longer cause wear and tear on the roads? Don't electric cars with no road tax cause wear and tear too ?
It’s not road tax it’s vehicle excise duty, the roads are funded from your council tax
Yep, and I believe EV's will have to pay VED from April 2025"
Yeah, as their tyres are the problem and the lithium fires will need to be prepped for. |
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By *orny PT OP Man 42 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"strange thing is classic cars are MOT exempt ...that seems silly as you dont know if safe to drive."
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cars under 3 yeasr old and cars from abroad aren't subject to UK mot rules, just VOSA rules. |
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