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Pronouncing place names
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"Because unless you are from Wales, why would you know how to pronounce it? I'm Welsh born and bred but not fluent. So i struggle sometimes." Do you know how to say Edinburgh? Are you from there? I guess I'm talking about visitors who don't make any effort. Gbat | |||
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"Because unless you are from Wales, why would you know how to pronounce it? I'm Welsh born and bred but not fluent. So i struggle sometimes. Do you know how to say Edinburgh? Are you from there? I guess I'm talking about visitors who don't make any effort. Gbat " Yes of course i do because i can read. Welsh pronunciations sometimes are a little more tricky | |||
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"Bicester properly!!!! Gbat " ^Giving Bicester a tryster. | |||
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"As someone who grew up not far from Llandudno.. I hate when it’s pronounced as CLANdudno. Just no. "How is it pronounced then?, Mrs x | |||
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"Yes of course i do because i can read. Welsh pronunciations sometimes are a little more tricky" So do you say EdinBOROUGH or EdinBURG? Because if you can read, the sound doesn't follow what's written does it? I'll revert to my earlier example, Leicester. It's pronounced Lester. You knew that didn't you, but you're not from there. Gbat | |||
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"Bicester properly!!!! Gbat ^Giving Bicester a tryster." Bicester is pronounced bisster | |||
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"Because unless you are from Wales, why would you know how to pronounce it? I'm Welsh born and bred but not fluent. So i struggle sometimes. Do you know how to say Edinburgh? Are you from there? I guess I'm talking about visitors who don't make any effort. Gbat " Maybe the visitors don't feel welcome and can't be bothered, Mrs x | |||
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"Bicester properly!!!! Gbat ^Giving Bicester a tryster. Bicester is pronounced bisster" So how do you pronounce tryst? | |||
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"Bicester is pronounced bisster " My point exactly, Giving Bicester a tricester. Gbat | |||
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"Yes of course i do because i can read. Welsh pronunciations sometimes are a little more tricky So do you say EdinBOROUGH or EdinBURG? Because if you can read, the sound doesn't follow what's written does it? I'll revert to my earlier example, Leicester. It's pronounced Lester. You knew that didn't you, but you're not from there. Gbat " You're being pedantic. You know what i mean. | |||
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"As someone who grew up not far from Llandudno.. I hate when it’s pronounced as CLANdudno. Just no. How is it pronounced then?, Mrs x"hH(c)hlan-d(u)id-no is the closest I can get  . | |||
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"As someone who grew up not far from Llandudno.. I hate when it’s pronounced as CLANdudno. Just no. How is it pronounced then?, Mrs x
hH(c)hlan-d(u)id-no is the closest I can get ."Would never have gotten that and now i can see how it should be said i still cannot, Mrs x | |||
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"You're being pedantic. You know what i mean." I don't know what you mean, I'm just going on what you wrote. You said you know how Edinburgh is said because you can read, but it's not said how it should read. It's not me being pedantic, it's you being unclear. Gbat | |||
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"You're being pedantic. You know what i mean. I don't know what you mean, I'm just going on what you wrote. You said you know how Edinburgh is said because you can read, but it's not said how it should read. It's not me being pedantic, it's you being unclear. Gbat " Because i can speak English. Unless you live in Wales why would you be expected to read/speak Welsh. | |||
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"Yes of course i do because i can read. Welsh pronunciations sometimes are a little more tricky So do you say EdinBOROUGH or EdinBURG? Because if you can read, the sound doesn't follow what's written does it? I'll revert to my earlier example, Leicester. It's pronounced Lester. You knew that didn't you, but you're not from there. Gbat " Scotrail trains say Edin-bra I’d say Embra | |||
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Unless you hear them outloud it’s hard to know. I wouldn’t read too much into it | |||
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"I say loads of places wrong. I don’t think there’s anything sinister about it. I get places in England wrong. For example, I thought Towcester was pronounce Toe-sister until I read above its toaster.
Unless you hear them outloud it’s hard to know. I wouldn’t read too much into it "Exactly. And you're from Hantshire | |||
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"As someone who grew up not far from Llandudno.. I hate when it’s pronounced as CLANdudno. Just no. How is it pronounced then?, Mrs x
hH(c)hlan-d(u)id-no is the closest I can get .Would never have gotten that and now i can see how it should be said i still cannot, Mrs x"Here's one to test posh sorts (or Google cheats ):
Beauchamp Place, Knightsbridge.
It's not the mangled English version of the French pronunciation. Neither is it the French pronunciation.
Winner gets an imaginary towcester and cuddly toy x
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place..." Beecham place?? | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??"  | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place?? "Hurrah  | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??
Hurrah "You iz posh, cheaty, lucky, or maybe all 3 K x | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??
Hurrah
You iz posh, cheaty, lucky, or maybe all 3 K x"Or clever  ... definitely not posh or cheating... | |||
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"Because i can speak English. Unless you live in Wales why would you be expected to read/speak Welsh." You do know Edinburgh isn't English don't you? I'm sorry my original point wasn't clear. Leicester is pronounced Lester. It doesn't follow the rules of written and spoken English, but people learn it anyway. I don't think it's asking too much to expect people to learn how to say Bettws Y Coed. There are no difficult sounds in there for English monoglots. Gbat | |||
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"It's a bit like Milngavie in Scotland. Everyone pronounces it wrong "Mull Guy Gbat | |||
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"Because i can speak English. Unless you live in Wales why would you be expected to read/speak Welsh. You do know Edinburgh isn't English don't you? I'm sorry my original point wasn't clear. Leicester is pronounced Lester. It doesn't follow the rules of written and spoken English, but people learn it anyway. I don't think it's asking too much to expect people to learn how to say Bettws Y Coed. There are no difficult sounds in there for English monoglots. Gbat " Most of the Welsh don't even speak Welsh, so if they can't be bothered why should we?, Mrs x | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??
Hurrah
You iz posh, cheaty, lucky, or maybe all 3 K x
Or clever ... definitely not posh or cheating..."Clever you are for sure...but no amount of clever can work that one out xx | |||
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"Most of the Welsh don't even speak Welsh, so if they can't be bothered why should we?, Mrs x" No one is asking you to. I'm just asking about saying an unusual place name properly. Gbat | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??
Hurrah
You iz posh, cheaty, lucky, or maybe all 3 K x
Or clever ... definitely not posh or cheating...
Clever you are for sure...but no amount of clever can work that one out xx"I was being tongue in cheek...I'm not all that clever..its just one of things I knew lol | |||
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"Most of the Welsh don't even speak Welsh, so if they can't be bothered why should we?, Mrs x No one is asking you to. I'm just asking about saying an unusual place name properly. Gbat " But it's in a foreign language, Mrs x | |||
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"It's a bit like Milngavie in Scotland. Everyone pronounces it wrong
Mull Guy
Gbat "Correct How about Auchtermuchty | |||
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"Because i can speak English. Unless you live in Wales why would you be expected to read/speak Welsh. You do know Edinburgh isn't English don't you? I'm sorry my original point wasn't clear. Leicester is pronounced Lester. It doesn't follow the rules of written and spoken English, but people learn it anyway. I don't think it's asking too much to expect people to learn how to say Bettws Y Coed. There are no difficult sounds in there for English monoglots. Gbat " Yes but English is spoken in Scotland along with Gaelic etc etc if you're being pedantic again. I wouldn't be offended if they cannot pronounce Bettws Y Coed if they've never heard how it is pronounced!! | |||
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"As someone who grew up not far from Llandudno.. I hate when it’s pronounced as CLANdudno. Just no. "Worse when they just say Landudno. That winds me right up | |||
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"Most of the Welsh don't even speak Welsh, so if they can't be bothered why should we?, Mrs x No one is asking you to. I'm just asking about saying an unusual place name properly. Gbat But it's in a foreign language, Mrs x" And written signs don't necessarily translate to pronunciation... I wouldn't have a clue how any Welsh place names are pronounced because I've never heard them said | |||
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"You make a good point. Anyway, how's the weather in Ally-Canty? "Alley cant if your speaking Valencian, Alley Cantey if your speaking Spanish. And I'm not even from here!!!!! Gbat | |||
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"Let’s add “Belvoir castle” to the mix " *Snigger* She said beaver... | |||
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"You make a good point. Anyway, how's the weather in Ally-Canty?
Alley cant if your speaking Valencian, Alley Cantey if your speaking Spanish.
And I'm not even from here!!!!!
Gbat "Well aren't you mr know it all  | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??
Hurrah
You iz posh, cheaty, lucky, or maybe all 3 K x
Or clever ... definitely not posh or cheating...
Clever you are for sure...but no amount of clever can work that one out xx
I was being tongue in cheek...I'm not all that clever..its just one of things I knew lol"And that's how that one works. When you know, you know. And when you don't know, you'll never work it out xx | |||
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"Meet me on Beauchamp Place... Beecham place??
Hurrah
You iz posh, cheaty, lucky, or maybe all 3 K x
Or clever ... definitely not posh or cheating...
Clever you are for sure...but no amount of clever can work that one out xx
I was being tongue in cheek...I'm not all that clever..its just one of things I knew lol
And that's how that one works.
When you know, you know.
And when you don't know, you'll never work it out xx" | |||
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"Well aren't you mr know it all " More than some, apparently. Gbat | |||
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"Wybunbury? ?????? ????????? ? Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch ? "That second ones just looks like someone vomited up an entire can of alphabetti spaghetti | |||
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"By the way, Welsh isn't a foreign language. It's a British language. Gbat " It is foreign if you speak English, there's no language called British, Mrs x | |||
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"Unless you've ever heard a word said out loud that you have only ever seen written then its just a guess based on how you learnt to read. Ive said loads of names wrong not intentionally but its just how I read them. And I'm from Worcestershistershire. " Oh thats easy, just say you're from not brown-not-HP-sauce-shire | |||
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" It is foreign if you speak English, there's no language called British, Mrs " Read what I said. It's a British language, ie, a language from Britain, ie, not foreign. It's a British language, called Welsh if you're speaking English. Gbat | |||
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"By the way, Welsh isn't a foreign language. It's a British language. Gbat " Wrong. It is still classed as a foreign language, along with French, Spanish etc according to the UK govt. | |||
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"Wybunbury? ?????? ????????? ? Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch ? That second ones just looks like someone vomited up an entire can of alphabetti spaghetti "Odd... preview showed the cyrillic letters ok??  | |||
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"Because unless you are from Wales, why would you know how to pronounce it? I'm Welsh born and bred but not fluent. So i struggle sometimes. Do you know how to say Edinburgh? Are you from there? I guess I'm talking about visitors who don't make any effort. Gbat " Edinburgh is a capital city. People can say Cardiff. However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? | |||
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? " It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat " I pronounce it 'Betus a Co-ed and being a Welsh speaker; a Gogledd I can understand why non Welsh speakers pronounce it as Betsy Coed....Tolerance on all sides I think... | |||
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"If the newsreaders and reporters in Britain can't be arsed checking and insist on having 3 different pronunciations in the same report ....... " This is the bit that irks me. Gbat | |||
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" It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat " It is, having googled how to pronounce it there is a website saying it is their favourite question of the area as they get asked it a lot, they then let you know the answer. A very friendly site it looks and not a bit of angst if people don't pronounce it right. | |||
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat " So famous no one seems to have heard of it | |||
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"If the newsreaders and reporters in Britain can't be arsed checking and insist on having 3 different pronunciations in the same report ....... This is the bit that irks me. Gbat " We have much simpler two syllable placenames that many can't pronounce because they put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. | |||
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat So famous no one seems to have heard of it "I'd never heard of it, but have now googled and it looks lovely. This is a very niche way for the Welsh Tourist Board to drum up interest, but good on them for the novel marketing... | |||
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" It is foreign if you speak English, there's no language called British, Mrs Read what I said. It's a British language, ie, a language from Britain, ie, not foreign. It's a British language, called Welsh if you're speaking English. Gbat " It's still foreign, not at all like English, Mrs x | |||
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"Where we live now people outside of the area never get the pronunciation right, it isn't the end of the world." Not Lizard Point then?! | |||
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat So famous no one seems to have heard of it
I'd never heard of it, but have now googled and it looks lovely. This is a very niche way for the Welsh Tourist Board to drum up interest, but good on them for the novel marketing..."You think the OP is on commission from the Welsh tourist board | |||
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat So famous no one seems to have heard of it
I'd never heard of it, but have now googled and it looks lovely. This is a very niche way for the Welsh Tourist Board to drum up interest, but good on them for the novel marketing...
You think the OP is on commission from the Welsh tourist board "No other explanation as far as I can see... | |||
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I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat So famous no one seems to have heard of it "It is a gorgeous place that's for sure..lovely waterfall | |||
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"Many years ago an Australian motorist stopped me, and asked for directions. He said "can you tell me which direction Loo Baroo is please mate?" I Said "Loo Baroo?" He said "yeah" and showed me it written down. It was Loughborough. I still laugh about it to this day. " | |||
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"However it is you pronounce the examen you gave... Why would anyone who isn't Welsh know how to pronounce a small town nobody has heard of? It's quite a famous little tourist town. Nice place. Gbat So famous no one seems to have heard of it
It is a gorgeous place that's for sure..lovely waterfall"Oh yes beautiful, Shallow Falls, Mrs x | |||
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"Btw, how do you say Bettws, OP. I always try to get place names right, but I wouldn't know that. 'Betts'?" Bet-oos i coyd A “w” within a word is “oo” | |||
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"Btw, how do you say Bettws, OP. I always try to get place names right, but I wouldn't know that. 'Betts'? Bet-oos i coyd A “w” within a word is “oo” " Not Betty's Co Head?, Mrs x | |||
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"Btw, how do you say Bettws, OP. I always try to get place names right, but I wouldn't know that. 'Betts'? Bet-oos i coyd A “w” within a word is “oo” " Thank you! | |||
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"Btw, how do you say Bettws, OP. I always try to get place names right, but I wouldn't know that. 'Betts'? Bet-oos i coyd A “w” within a word is “oo” " A simple, straightforward explanation that no one unfamiliar with Welsh pronunciation would have known. | |||
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"Where we live now people outside of the area never get the pronunciation right, it isn't the end of the world. Not Lizard Point then?! "
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
"Evri cloud has a silver lining | |||
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
Evri cloud has a silver lining "Ok you've won the thread now | |||
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"Because unless you are from Wales, why would you know how to pronounce it? I'm Welsh born and bred but not fluent. So i struggle sometimes. Do you know how to say Edinburgh? Are you from there? I guess I'm talking about visitors who don't make any effort. Gbat " I wouldn't expect any Visitor to a village a few miles from me (Eyam) to know it's pronounced Eeem.When it's pronounced E am or I am,guess what?no one dies and no one gets angry about it. Fofd. | |||
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
Evri cloud has a silver lining "I set them up, you knock them down | |||
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
Evri cloud has a silver lining
I set them up, you knock them down "Ooo, that’s handy to know, we’re looking for a new sticker upper at skittles | |||
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
Evri cloud has a silver lining
I set them up, you knock them down
Ooo, that’s handy to know, we’re looking for a new stick them up her at skittles "I’m not kind of gal!  | |||
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"John Bishop was told as a child he was dyslexic at a time where it was frowned upon to speak of such things. He expected his father to see it as a weakness but was surprised when his dad put him in the car and drove to Wales. He pointed at the first placename they saw and told John not to worry as they were all dyslexic in Wales. " | |||
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"John Bishop was told as a child he was dyslexic at a time where it was frowned upon to speak of such things. He expected his father to see it as a weakness but was surprised when his dad put him in the car and drove to Wales. He pointed at the first placename they saw and told John not to worry as they were all dyslexic in Wales. "Old McDonald had a farm. TJ, TJ, K, Mrs x | |||
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
Evri cloud has a silver lining
I set them up, you knock them down
Ooo, that’s handy to know, we’re looking for a new stick them up her at skittles
I’m not kind of gal! "That’s not what someone’s written in the gents toilets. On a side note, I think it’s poor form of you hijacking the OP’s thread for your own entertainment | |||
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"I always thought the 'w' in 'Bettws Y Coed' was silent..." I’ve always pronounced it so it sounds like Lettuce Bet is y coed | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat " I imagine it's just because they're not familiar with them. Similar to Americans trying to pronounce English places they've not heard of before. | |||
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"My address is a mouthful never mind the place name I always get a “can you spell that”
But Evri can find me, so all is well with the world.
Evri cloud has a silver lining
I set them up, you knock them down
Ooo, that’s handy to know, we’re looking for a new stick them up her at skittles
I’m not kind of gal!
That’s not what someone’s written in the gents toilets.
On a side note, I think it’s poor form of you hijacking the OP’s thread for your own entertainment "I’ll consider myself told | |||
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"We have in Northamptonshire a village called Cogenhoe, how would you pronounce that? . . . . . . . . . . . . Locally known as Cookna, work that one out. " Really irritating when people get that wrong | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat I imagine it's just because they're not familiar with them. Similar to Americans trying to pronounce English places they've not heard of before." Exactly and I don't think the vast majority of Welsh people I know at least (some are Welsh speaking some are not), mind mispronunciation at all. But most Americans when told the correct pronunciation then try and use the correct one, without an argument how bloody illogical the English language can be. This is often not the case for Welsh. And I think this is what the OP was getting at. Though I'm happy to be corrected. Side note most non British people I know love trying to pronounce Welsh name places I then try and pronounce their home towns. My Korean is absolutely abysmal but I got there eventually  | |||
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"TIME TO BE RHYL" Ok ok now you’re taking my language | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading." Either either or. Doesn’t really matter. Nothing in Reading is worth reading about. | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading. Either either or. Doesn’t really matter. Nothing in Reading is worth reading about. " Do you pronounce it Hants or Hants? | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading. Either either or. Doesn’t really matter. Nothing in Reading is worth reading about. " I find it cool that my brain read that how it should be | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading. Either either or. Doesn’t really matter. Nothing in Reading is worth reading about. Do you pronounce it Hants or Hants?" #Bants | |||
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"My son lives in Cathays, I thought it was pronounced Cath-ays, but it's Cat-ays. " I used to live there a very long time ago. I mispronounced it too when I first arrived in Cardiff | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading. Either either or. Doesn’t really matter. Nothing in Reading is worth reading about. Do you pronounce it Hants or Hants?" With a K sound in the middle | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading." Did that one too | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading. Either either or. Doesn’t really matter. Nothing in Reading is worth reading about. Do you pronounce it Hants or Hants? With a K sound in the middle" Tom Hants. | |||
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"I once knew a Welsh person who pronounced it Reading and not Reading." That’s so me | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning." Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x | |||
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"We've got a few up our way: Ulgham, Cambois, Alnwick, Howick, Redheugh, Ponteland, Prudhoe....." Is that last one pronounced Pridda, or am I mistaking it for another. | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x" 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think" I think it includes all the Welsh, Mrs x | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning." Attitudes have changed a lot in recent times. I have several friends who have learnt it in adulthood. | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think" Does it ask in the census if you do if you're living in England? | |||
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"Tomayto tomarto" You don't want to know how I pronounce it  | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat I imagine it's just because they're not familiar with them. Similar to Americans trying to pronounce English places they've not heard of before. Exactly and I don't think the vast majority of Welsh people I know at least (some are Welsh speaking some are not), mind mispronunciation at all. But most Americans when told the correct pronunciation then try and use the correct one, without an argument how bloody illogical the English language can be. This is often not the case for Welsh. And I think this is what the OP was getting at. Though I'm happy to be corrected. Side note most non British people I know love trying to pronounce Welsh name places I then try and pronounce their home towns. My Korean is absolutely abysmal but I got there eventually "That is EXACTLY what I was getting at! I don't speak Portuguese, but will try and say the place names properly when I visit. Is it too much to ask? Apparently so. Gbat | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think Does it ask in the census if you do if you're living in England? " No, not that I can remember. That's why I asked if the data was relating to the population of Wales not the Welsh speakers living in England | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat I imagine it's just because they're not familiar with them. Similar to Americans trying to pronounce English places they've not heard of before. Exactly and I don't think the vast majority of Welsh people I know at least (some are Welsh speaking some are not), mind mispronunciation at all. But most Americans when told the correct pronunciation then try and use the correct one, without an argument how bloody illogical the English language can be. This is often not the case for Welsh. And I think this is what the OP was getting at. Though I'm happy to be corrected. Side note most non British people I know love trying to pronounce Welsh name places I then try and pronounce their home towns. My Korean is absolutely abysmal but I got there eventually
That is EXACTLY what I was getting at! I don't speak Portuguese, but will try and say the place names properly when I visit. Is it too much to ask?
Apparently so.
Gbat
"Oh come on now, we all want to become one homogenous mass don't we? Let's all speak one version of English. Because percentages and numbers are so important. There are almost five times as many Americans as Britons so American English that is  | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat I imagine it's just because they're not familiar with them. Similar to Americans trying to pronounce English places they've not heard of before. Exactly and I don't think the vast majority of Welsh people I know at least (some are Welsh speaking some are not), mind mispronunciation at all. But most Americans when told the correct pronunciation then try and use the correct one, without an argument how bloody illogical the English language can be. This is often not the case for Welsh. And I think this is what the OP was getting at. Though I'm happy to be corrected. Side note most non British people I know love trying to pronounce Welsh name places I then try and pronounce their home towns. My Korean is absolutely abysmal but I got there eventually
That is EXACTLY what I was getting at! I don't speak Portuguese, but will try and say the place names properly when I visit. Is it too much to ask?
Apparently so.
Gbat
"But that isn’t what you said, in previous posts you mocked people for not being able to pronounce the letter sounds, saying there was nothing particularly difficult. A couple of people from Wales came on the thread and explained the pronunciation, which anyone not familiar with some of the Welsh language rules would never have known. Also , just because they have got the pronunciation wrong, how do you know they weren’t trying , just as you ‘try’ with Portuguese but locals may well be amused at your attempts | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think Does it ask in the census if you do if you're living in England? No, not that I can remember. That's why I asked if the data was relating to the population of Wales not the Welsh speakers living in England " 29.5% of Welsh people speak Welsh according to the government statistics. So wouldn't include you or those a bit further afield like in Patagonia | |||
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think Does it ask in the census if you do if you're living in England? No, not that I can remember. That's why I asked if the data was relating to the population of Wales not the Welsh speakers living in England 29.5% of Welsh people speak Welsh according to the government statistics. So wouldn't include you or those a bit further afield like in Patagonia "Ooh yes! I forgot about the Welsh speaking community in Patagonia. It's a popular language in Japan also
I would be interested to see how many Welsh speakers there are in the UK outside of Wales.
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"There are far more important things in this world to worry about than a mispronounced place name. My mum speaks Welsh and she says that most Welsh people do not bother learning.Only about 18% of the Welsh actually speak Welsh, Mrs x 18% of the Welsh population? as that data doesn't include people like me who are first language Welsh living in England I shouldn't think Does it ask in the census if you do if you're living in England? No, not that I can remember. That's why I asked if the data was relating to the population of Wales not the Welsh speakers living in England 29.5% of Welsh people speak Welsh according to the government statistics. So wouldn't include you or those a bit further afield like in Patagonia
Ooh yes! I forgot about the Welsh speaking community in Patagonia. It's a popular language in Japan also
I would be interested to see how many Welsh speakers there are in the UK outside of Wales.
"That would be interesting, I know lots of my mates/family who live in the UK but not in Wales anymore. | |||
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" I don't think it's asking too much to expect people to learn how to say Bettws Y Coed. There are no difficult sounds in there for English monoglots. Gbat " Perhaps you could enlighten we heathens who have no idea how the location is pronounced, primarily because we've never needed to, and it's never come up in conversation. | |||
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"You're being pedantic. You know what i mean. I don't know what you mean, I'm just going on what you wrote. You said you know how Edinburgh is said because you can read, but it's not said how it should read. It's not me being pedantic, it's you being unclear. Gbat " Because Edinburgh is the capital city in Scotland. We know it. Because Leicester have a football team that used to be in the premier League and won the league against the odds. We know it. I've never heard or had any prior knowledge of your coed gaff. | |||
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"But that isn’t what you said, in previous posts you mocked people for not being able to pronounce the letter sounds, saying there was nothing particularly difficult. A couple of people from Wales came on the thread and explained the pronunciation, which anyone not familiar with some of the Welsh language rules would never have known. Also , just because they have got the pronunciation wrong, how do you know they weren’t trying , just as you ‘try’ with Portuguese but locals may well be amused at your attempts" If you think I was mocking, then that's you projecting an emotion that wasn't there. I actually said "I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch" but there are no "unusual" sounds for English speakers in Bettws Y Coed. It's like Leicester or Worcester. You just have to hear it once to get it right. I wouldn't expect many new visitors to get the Ll or Ch sounds right without a bit of help. But see how many posters have said things like why would they know? (There's lots of guide books with a little glossary, and Google translate does sounds as well). Other posters have referred to Welsh as a foreign language and that's at the heart of what I was feeling. It's like so many visitors never bother to try and find out, never try to say it properly, and sometimes get dismissive of the language "cos nobody speaks it anyway." These places are part of the UK, have held that name longer than any of us have been alive, and it doesn't take too much effort to try and find out if you want to. I dare say my Portuguese pronunciation isn't the best, but at least I've looked at the rules before I give it a go. How do I know the "Betsy" gang aren't trying? Because it's so wide of the mark, that's how. Gbat | |||
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"Perhaps you could enlighten we heathens who have no idea how the location is pronounced, primarily because we've never needed to, and it's never come up in conversation. " Then it wasn't you I was talking about was it? If you ever go, get some enlightenment yourself. Gbat | |||
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"I traveled to Leominster to meet someone once, and I called it Leo-minster. I was quickly corrected and was told it's Lempster. Never could get my head around that one. " Start a thread about it. | |||
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"We've got a few up our way: Ulgham, Cambois, Alnwick, Howick, Redheugh, Ponteland, Prudhoe..... Is that last one pronounced Pridda, or am I mistaking it for another. " Close, more 'prudah' | |||
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"Until recently I expect you would have pronounced Kiev as key ev.... Instead of the Ukrainian pronunciation of keev..." But that's because we've usually used the English name rather than the Ukrainian name. I dare say most of us say Paris rather than ParEE, because we aren't speaking French. But there's only one way to say Limoge, because there's no English name. Gbat | |||
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"Sorry. There, is that better now? " Much. But only if you really mean it. Gbat | |||
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"We've got a few up our way: Ulgham, Cambois, Alnwick, Howick, Redheugh, Ponteland, Prudhoe..... Is that last one pronounced Pridda, or am I mistaking it for another. " Prudda Howick - hoyk Alnwick - Anick Anyone for pronouncing Torpenhow........ ?? | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat " I'm a little lost as to why someone's lack of knowledge about correct pronunciation ires you so much? You seem to be taking it as a personal insult!! | |||
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"We've got a few up our way: Ulgham, Cambois, Alnwick, Howick, Redheugh, Ponteland, Prudhoe..... Is that last one pronounced Pridda, or am I mistaking it for another. Prudda Howick - hoyk Alnwick - Anick Anyone for pronouncing Torpenhow........ ??" Hahaha can't believe I have just seen that just after my post. | |||
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"Sorry. There, is that better now? Much. But only if you really mean it. Gbat " Could you tell? | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat I'm a little lost as to why someone's lack of knowledge about correct pronunciation ires you so much? You seem to be taking it as a personal insult!!" Agreed. But you kind of get to know some of his posts over time. | |||
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"I'm a little lost as to why someone's lack of knowledge about correct pronunciation ires you so much? You seem to be taking it as a personal insult!!" Not at all. A lot of people seem to be burning heart muscle to justify getting it wrong though. Mr Fox, you never had a personal invite and didn't need to join in if you didn't want to. Cheers, Gbat | |||
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"I'm a little lost as to why someone's lack of knowledge about correct pronunciation ires you so much? You seem to be taking it as a personal insult!! Not at all. A lot of people seem to be burning heart muscle to justify getting it wrong though. Mr Fox, you never had a personal invite and didn't need to join in if you didn't want to. Cheers, Gbat " I'll see myself out. | |||
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"If I was going to visit Wales I'd make an effort to get places I wanted to visit or i have visited correct be it ask someone or Google it. But otherwise, for now I'm content being none the wiser until such time that I need to rectify that. " Basically, what I was wishing more people did. Thanks. Gbat | |||
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"I'll see myself out." It's not an airport. You don't need to announce departures. Gbat | |||
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"How come so many people have trouble pronouncing some Welsh place names? I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch, but FFS, why is Bettws Y Coed ever said as Betsy Co-ed? If you can say Leicester, Worcester, Southwell or Biceste properlyr, why can't you learn other place names? Gbat " I must admit I don't know the language rules for Welsh and I don't know which places follow the Welsh language rules or you can use english ones. So would be unsure of the pronunciation. If I was going to visit Wales I'd make an effort to get places I wanted to visit or i have visited correct be it ask someone or Google it. But otherwise, for now I'm content being none the wiser until such time that I need to rectify that. | |||
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"But that isn’t what you said, in previous posts you mocked people for not being able to pronounce the letter sounds, saying there was nothing particularly difficult. A couple of people from Wales came on the thread and explained the pronunciation, which anyone not familiar with some of the Welsh language rules would never have known. Also , just because they have got the pronunciation wrong, how do you know they weren’t trying , just as you ‘try’ with Portuguese but locals may well be amused at your attempts If you think I was mocking, then that's you projecting an emotion that wasn't there. I actually said "I can understand if the name contains sounds they are unfamiliar with, such as double Ls or ch" but there are no "unusual" sounds for English speakers in Bettws Y Coed. It's like Leicester or Worcester. You just have to hear it once to get it right. I wouldn't expect many new visitors to get the Ll or Ch sounds right without a bit of help. But see how many posters have said things like why would they know? (There's lots of guide books with a little glossary, and Google translate does sounds as well). Other posters have referred to Welsh as a foreign language and that's at the heart of what I was feeling. It's like so many visitors never bother to try and find out, never try to say it properly, and sometimes get dismissive of the language "cos nobody speaks it anyway." These places are part of the UK, have held that name longer than any of us have been alive, and it doesn't take too much effort to try and find out if you want to. I dare say my Portuguese pronunciation isn't the best, but at least I've looked at the rules before I give it a go. How do I know the "Betsy" gang aren't trying? Because it's so wide of the mark, that's how. Gbat " Your continued insistence that Welsh is not a completely different language to English is now laughable. You also insist that there were no unusual sounds, so why did someone (who actually took the time to explain the pronunciation) , point out that the w in the middle of a word has the sounding of oo, ‘cos of course that’s sooo obvious isn’t it. You also now go on to say that people can go on Google translate, to get the correct pronunciation, why does it need translating if it’s not a language that is foreign to most people outside of Wales. Lots of place names all over the UK are completely mispronounced, as has been highlighted throughout this thread, nobody else is taking umbrage about it, most are just amused by their local unique pronunciation of a name. | |||
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"I’m happy being wrong with my piss poor attempts at pronouncing place names. Most locals will laugh and educate me anyway and we move. " Precisely | |||
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"Your continued insistence that Welsh is not a completely different language to English is now laughable. " At no point have I said that. It's VERY different. You haven't been reading what I've said. "You also insist that there were no unusual sounds, so why did someone (who actually took the time to explain the pronunciation) , point out that the w in the middle of a word has the sounding of oo, ‘cos of course that’s sooo obvious isn’t it. " Is OO really an unusual sound for you? Do you have trouble saying "Who" or "boo" or "too." OO is not an unusual sound for English speakers, you use it regularly. The Ll and Ch are unusual for you, though. I DO insist there are no unusual sounds in it. "You also now go on to say that people can go on Google translate, to get the correct pronunciation, why does it need translating if it’s not a language that is foreign to most people outside of Wales. " It's British language you can't speak not a foreign language you can't speak. Sorry I can't explain that more easily. "Lots of place names all over the UK are completely mispronounced, as has been highlighted throughout this thread, nobody else is taking umbrage about it, most are just amused by their local unique pronunciation of a name. " It's the "I don't care" I take umbrage with. I think I said something along those lines about 3 posts in. It's a subject I'm passionate about. Why are you so invested in the argument? Gbat | |||
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