FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Women can promote toxic masculinity
Women can promote toxic masculinity
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine? "Too many personality tests | |||
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
Too many personality tests"Agree slightly | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine? "I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum. I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology) | |||
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology) "Pseud? | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?"Huh? | |||
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh? "Truth claims? Epistemology? This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon. | |||
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon. "Just wait for the ontology  | |||
"They can. They shouldn't. But, society " | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon. "Oh he's not bamboozled me. Far from it. The bracketed word wasn't a necessity but I'm in a good mood. And with that in mind, apologies for the thread tangent OP. I won't go in to how I feel about that sort of questioning and the answers it produces. | |||
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon.
Oh he's not bamboozled me. Far from it. The bracketed word wasn't a necessity but I'm in a good mood.
And with that in mind, apologies for the thread tangent OP. I won't go in to how I feel about that sort of questioning and the answers it produces. "Us lesser mortals of average intellectual capacity are not so fortunate. | |||
"I won't lie, I don't even know what toxic masculinity is." It would be helpful if some kind of definition was established. | |||
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"I won't lie, I don't even know what toxic masculinity is. It would be helpful if some kind of definition was established. " If you look it up there are some easily understandable definitions available. | |||
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"I won't lie, I don't even know what toxic masculinity is. It would be helpful if some kind of definition was established. If you look it up there are some easily understandable definitions available. " I’m more interested in the ops definition. | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion" Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. | |||
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"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. "and you do oh bald one | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one "With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred? | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one
With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred? "true what a team | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one
With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred? "(By the way, honey, the rubbish needs taking out) | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one
With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred?
(By the way, honey, the rubbish needs taking out)"sorry i dont do rubbish give that to the cleaner | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one
With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred?
(By the way, honey, the rubbish needs taking out)sorry i dont do rubbish give that to the cleaner "Where is that young lad who tried to hump everybody’s legs? He’ll do it for a Scooby snack. He’ll do ANYTHING for a Scooby Snack | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one
With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred?
(By the way, honey, the rubbish needs taking out)sorry i dont do rubbish give that to the cleaner
Where is that young lad who tried to hump everybody’s legs? He’ll do it for a Scooby snack. He’ll do ANYTHING for a Scooby Snack "Scooby Scooby Whooooooo | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion Oh, as long as something is toxic, I consider it my responsibility to promote it. and you do oh bald one
With you and that other Woke dude by my side, how can I ever go wrong, Fred?
(By the way, honey, the rubbish needs taking out)sorry i dont do rubbish give that to the cleaner
Where is that young lad who tried to hump everybody’s legs? He’ll do it for a Scooby snack. He’ll do ANYTHING for a Scooby Snack Scooby Scooby Whooooooo "Scooby? Where are you, Scoob? Jinkies! Zoiks! | |||
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"They can because a number of women (not all of them) like to act, behave or like giving out masculine energy " It's not necessary to "give out masculine energy" to promote and perpetuate toxic ideas of masculinity. Someone could be the most feminine person on the planet, but if they, for example, criticise men for showing emotions or say things like real men don't cry, they are displaying and perpetuating toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is about harmful ideas, standards and behaviours relating to masculinity. There's no need to be masculine to hold or share those ideas. A lot of men get stroppy about toxic masculinity because they don't know what it is. They assume it's a criticism of men, saying men are toxic. It isn't. Toxic masculinity harms men too. For example, the suicide rate is higher for men because toxic ideas around masculinity prevents a lot of men talking about their problems or seeking help with them. Telling a boy he can't take ballet classes or play with dolls, if he wants to, is harmful toxic masculinity. It quashes the ability of some men to express themselves. | |||
"They can because a number of women (not all of them) like to act, behave or like giving out masculine energy It's not necessary to "give out masculine energy" to promote and perpetuate toxic ideas of masculinity. Someone could be the most feminine person on the planet, but if they, for example, criticise men for showing emotions or say things like real men don't cry, they are displaying and perpetuating toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is about harmful ideas, standards and behaviours relating to masculinity. There's no need to be masculine to hold or share those ideas. A lot of men get stroppy about toxic masculinity because they don't know what it is. They assume it's a criticism of men, saying men are toxic. It isn't. Toxic masculinity harms men too. For example, the suicide rate is higher for men because toxic ideas around masculinity prevents a lot of men talking about their problems or seeking help with them. Telling a boy he can't take ballet classes or play with dolls, if he wants to, is harmful toxic masculinity. It quashes the ability of some men to express themselves. " | |||
Mrs TMN x | |||
"They can because a number of women (not all of them) like to act, behave or like giving out masculine energy " What is "masculine energy"? | |||
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"Of course they can, though most don't." Most ? Where are your stats por favor ? | |||
"Agree slightly. It's more of a contribution than a promotion" You are so right. How could a woman ever do anything other than hang on to the coat tails of men. Of course they simply contribute. | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon. "Do I have to be stupid to be here ? | |||
"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion" Op what is yours you give these out but you forgot to vine yours out | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine? "My sentiments exactly too | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon.
Do I have to be stupid to be here ? "No GrannyCrumpet but it feels like the op thinks we are | |||
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"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon. "Quite agree. Lets worry about swinging | |||
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"Yes, of course. All genders can perpetuate toxic masculinity. Anyone who, for example, who says men shouldn't cry or that it's weak is perpetuating toxic masculinity. That said, in my experience, one gender does most to spread the messages, standards and behaviours of toxic masculinity, and the least to challenge them." __ Agree with your views, but not sure about your example. Men like me who don't cry when we should, or we are expected, hurt ourselves, because we bottle up our emotions. But not sure why my difficulty to cry is toxic for others. I wish I could cry but I can't. Am I being toxic for not crying? | |||
"No because I hate being told how to reply to a thread. What's with this new style of thread Vine?
I’m interested in difficult conversations. I think often part of the problem is that people are expected to respond to truth claims in a binary manner. I like the approach that recognises that people’s beliefs fall across a spectrum.
I’m also fascinated as to the reasons people know what they know (epistemology)
Pseud?
Huh?
Truth claims?
Epistemology?
This is a swinging site last time I checked. No need to bamboozle people with unnecessary jargon.
Do I have to be stupid to be here ? "Certainly not. But I feel that I am. | |||
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"They can because a number of women (not all of them) like to act, behave or like giving out masculine energy It's not necessary to "give out masculine energy" to promote and perpetuate toxic ideas of masculinity. Someone could be the most feminine person on the planet, but if they, for example, criticise men for showing emotions or say things like real men don't cry, they are displaying and perpetuating toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is about harmful ideas, standards and behaviours relating to masculinity. There's no need to be masculine to hold or share those ideas. A lot of men get stroppy about toxic masculinity because they don't know what it is. They assume it's a criticism of men, saying men are toxic. It isn't. Toxic masculinity harms men too. For example, the suicide rate is higher for men because toxic ideas around masculinity prevents a lot of men talking about their problems or seeking help with them. Telling a boy he can't take ballet classes or play with dolls, if he wants to, is harmful toxic masculinity. It quashes the ability of some men to express themselves. " __ Again, totally agree that your views are right and the behaviours you are describing are wrong, but those are not examples of toxic masculinity. Those are plain old gender stereotyping, which we need to eradicate from society. To me toxic masculinity is when we men mansplain things. Group of people, one woman says something and one of us responds by saying the same with different words, as if the woman argument was not valid until a man validated it. Same group, a woman says something and then a man responds without acknowledging what she said, totally ignoring it and saying something that parks aside her comment. This is to me the sort of behaviour that I observe even within groups and meetings of professional people and still we men get away with it or many in the group does not seem to notice, men mostly but also women. That's to me toxic masculinity, something more insidious and not often obvious. Behaviours that are toxic because they go under the radar. [Please, not picking on you, just disagreeing only worth the bit that the negative behaviours you describe are toxic masculinity, the "boys don't cry" or "can't do ballet", etc.] | |||
"Agree slightly. It's more of a contribution than a promotion You are so right. How could a woman ever do anything other than hang on to the coat tails of men. Of course they simply contribute. " __ Brilliant response. Just brilliant. | |||
"They can because a number of women (not all of them) like to act, behave or like giving out masculine energy It's not necessary to "give out masculine energy" to promote and perpetuate toxic ideas of masculinity. Someone could be the most feminine person on the planet, but if they, for example, criticise men for showing emotions or say things like real men don't cry, they are displaying and perpetuating toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is about harmful ideas, standards and behaviours relating to masculinity. There's no need to be masculine to hold or share those ideas. A lot of men get stroppy about toxic masculinity because they don't know what it is. They assume it's a criticism of men, saying men are toxic. It isn't. Toxic masculinity harms men too. For example, the suicide rate is higher for men because toxic ideas around masculinity prevents a lot of men talking about their problems or seeking help with them. Telling a boy he can't take ballet classes or play with dolls, if he wants to, is harmful toxic masculinity. It quashes the ability of some men to express themselves. __ Again, totally agree that your views are right and the behaviours you are describing are wrong, but those are not examples of toxic masculinity. Those are plain old gender stereotyping, which we need to eradicate from society. To me toxic masculinity is when we men mansplain things. Group of people, one woman says something and one of us responds by saying the same with different words, as if the woman argument was not valid until a man validated it. Same group, a woman says something and then a man responds without acknowledging what she said, totally ignoring it and saying something that parks aside her comment. This is to me the sort of behaviour that I observe even within groups and meetings of professional people and still we men get away with it or many in the group does not seem to notice, men mostly but also women. That's to me toxic masculinity, something more insidious and not often obvious. Behaviours that are toxic because they go under the radar. [Please, not picking on you, just disagreeing only worth the bit that the negative behaviours you describe are toxic masculinity, the "boys don't cry" or "can't do ballet", etc.]" You need to do a search and read more about what toxic masculinity is because my examples are well recognised as toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity *is* harmful gender stereotyping of men. Yes, mansplaining is also an example of toxic masculinity, because it's based on the assumption that men automatically know more about everything than women do, (that's what makes it mansplaining, rather than simply being an arrogant know-it-all). | |||
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"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion" Disagree strongly as I don’t believe in such a thing as toxic masculinity and think the term itself is what is really toxic and designed to by nature, cast one gender as inherently bad, toxic or evil. Human behaviour is just that, human behaviour, it not masculine or feminine or inherently gender specific as gender is irrelevant. There just toxic behaviour and we see it every day in a variety of ways in a variety of people of all walks of life regardless of gender, ethnicity, beliefs etc. it’s just a very harmful and hateful term to drive division between people and like in many others society does, it’s another way to apply societal pressure on how people are expected to conform and not question. To brow beat the law abiding to create the illusion of change and addressing the issue while crime, violence etc all rise because institution is so corrupt and broken, the few profit so well of the status quo, they neither have the inclination or short sightless to miss out on profiting from crime and corruption. We’ll just feels that way sometimes to me anyways. Sorry all for the blabbering on lol x | |||
"Agree slightly. It's more of a contribution than a promotion You are so right. How could a woman ever do anything other than hang on to the coat tails of men. Of course they simply contribute. " The question was can women promote? To promote something involves a conscious action, a public encouragement. Contribution has nothing to do with coattails. It's also a conscious action but involves feeding something and then walking away washing their hands. | |||
"Oh , I didn't get that feeling from Vine at all ..... " I know what he's doing | |||
"They can because a number of women (not all of them) like to act, behave or like giving out masculine energy It's not necessary to "give out masculine energy" to promote and perpetuate toxic ideas of masculinity. Someone could be the most feminine person on the planet, but if they, for example, criticise men for showing emotions or say things like real men don't cry, they are displaying and perpetuating toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is about harmful ideas, standards and behaviours relating to masculinity. There's no need to be masculine to hold or share those ideas. A lot of men get stroppy about toxic masculinity because they don't know what it is. They assume it's a criticism of men, saying men are toxic. It isn't. Toxic masculinity harms men too. For example, the suicide rate is higher for men because toxic ideas around masculinity prevents a lot of men talking about their problems or seeking help with them. Telling a boy he can't take ballet classes or play with dolls, if he wants to, is harmful toxic masculinity. It quashes the ability of some men to express themselves. __ Again, totally agree that your views are right and the behaviours you are describing are wrong, but those are not examples of toxic masculinity. Those are plain old gender stereotyping, which we need to eradicate from society. To me toxic masculinity is when we men mansplain things. Group of people, one woman says something and one of us responds by saying the same with different words, as if the woman argument was not valid until a man validated it. Same group, a woman says something and then a man responds without acknowledging what she said, totally ignoring it and saying something that parks aside her comment. This is to me the sort of behaviour that I observe even within groups and meetings of professional people and still we men get away with it or many in the group does not seem to notice, men mostly but also women. That's to me toxic masculinity, something more insidious and not often obvious. Behaviours that are toxic because they go under the radar. [Please, not picking on you, just disagreeing only worth the bit that the negative behaviours you describe are toxic masculinity, the "boys don't cry" or "can't do ballet", etc.] You need to do a search and read more about what toxic masculinity is because my examples are well recognised as toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity *is* harmful gender stereotyping of men. Yes, mansplaining is also an example of toxic masculinity, because it's based on the assumption that men automatically know more about everything than women do, (that's what makes it mansplaining, rather than simply being an arrogant know-it-all)." __ Good advice, I should read more about it since this is a topic I'm interested in, so thanks for clarifying. I was convinced I was right and the way you explained it makes it clear for me (or so I think), that TM is a form of gender stereotyping that's harmful (implying there's forms of GS that are not harmful?). | |||
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"For me, as I wanted to try and better explain my thoughts on it. I think the whole thing is just miss guided due to how convoluted the whole thing has become and certain institutions cherry picking some facts that support their beliefs and ignore any that don’t. There has only ever been human behaviour with us all being capable and exhibiting the same traits. Woman aren’t inherently any different in their traits even if the way they exhibit them may slightly differ at times, funnily enough they do as well from person to person regardless of gender. So logically with that being the foundation of all of us as people it makes no sense what’s so ever for there to be behaviour or traits to exist in one gender and not the other or such a strong trait that it defines that gender and if that true, then to assign negative traits with a gender to infer it is typical, reflective or natural behaviour of that gender is not only wrong but a deliberate attempt to shift blame of what it is to be human and the nature of humans when negative to one portion of people. I think they have name for that and makes it easy to devalue certain demographs or but others into that group that don’t confirm their dogmatic view of traits. Where all very much capable of, without any outside interference, of reacting and behaving in the same way in any given situation. So there no behaviour one gender has that’s inherently bad or specific to their sex. However like Darwin’s theory, we are the products of our artificial societal environment. Molded, shaped and finally warped by social expectations on how to behave. Even though it goes against our nature and we end up denying half of what it is to be human in favour of acceptable social norms for our gender. Crying is a prime example and natural response, yet men don’t, not because it not a natural response from them but because society has conditioned them to deny that natural instinct despite it’s going against our nature and ultimately harmful. As is the notion that inbeds the Idea now that not only is crying unacceptable behaviour for men but that just by being male you are automatically and inherently bad, you desires and behaviour is inherently bad, what you like and enjoy is bad and you must conform to how we expect you to react, like what we tell you to like and behave how we want you to behave and don’t complain. The saddest part this isn’t even aimed at criminals or abuse people it’s aimed at lads in school and every day, normal decent, husband, farther, who are law abiding guy. To assign negative human behaviour a gender, race or anything else is abhorrently wrong. Again sorry for going on so much and if what I’m trying to drive at comes across poorly or nonsensical. It’s just where all equal and part of the same species and as a race we need to stop segregating and demonising each other testing each other as second class due to gender, race etc x" oh | |||
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"Disagree strongly as I don’t believe in such a thing as toxic masculinity and think the term itself is what is really toxic and designed to by nature, cast one gender as inherently bad, toxic or evil. " "Toxic masculinity" does not mean "men are toxic". Have a read of this thread and you'll see what it explained very well. | |||
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