FabSwingers.com
 

FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Buying her lingerie - one for the ladies

Buying her lingerie - one for the ladies

Jump to: Newest in thread

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago

Hey,

A question for the ladies….

So I have someone who I recently purchased lingerie for ( something I like to do ), just a little token for Christmas etc etc and it’s a nice thing to do, no alternative motives or agendas just a gift.

She basically said, You don’t need to do that etc etc but I’m smiley angry with you haha, if that makes any sense. Like not angry but I should be.

Do woman over think things when a guy gives you a small token or just you know, that’s for you kinda thing??

Or am I over thinking it haha

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *offiaCoolWoman 49 weeks ago

Kidsgrove

Wondering why a male platonic friend had bought me intimate lingerie, would make me wonder why, and I'm not prone to over thinking things.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago

Oh I should have made that clear,

We met on FAB, we ain’t plutonic haha

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I would assume an ulterior motive if a platonic male friend bought me lingerie. It's a very personal thing in my opinion and experience has unfortunately taught me that 98% of men will want/expect something in return for a gift such as that. I'd look askance if a platonic woman friend bought me lingerie to be honest

I accept that you were just giving a gift though

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"Oh I should have made that clear,

We met on FAB, we ain’t plutonic haha "

Oh well that's different

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *offiaCoolWoman 49 weeks ago

Kidsgrove


"Oh I should have made that clear,

We met on FAB, we ain’t plutonic haha "

Ah right

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago

That’s why I’m asking

It’s not plutonic it’s, we met on FAB. Would you still over think it?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"That’s why I’m asking

It’s not plutonic it’s, we met on FAB. Would you still over think it? "

I wouldn't overthink in the first place. I'd be annoyed though because it would make me feel slightly awkward

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough

I've done this before - always with the consent of the ladies in question.

Although one of them has ghosted me since.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"That’s why I’m asking

It’s not plutonic it’s, we met on FAB. Would you still over think it?

I wouldn't overthink in the first place. I'd be annoyed though because it would make me feel slightly awkward"

Interesting!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *offiaCoolWoman 49 weeks ago

Kidsgrove


"I've done this before - always with the consent of the ladies in question.

Although one of them has ghosted me since. "

She obviously didn't like being dressed from top to toe in blue

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *aith SkynbyrdWoman 49 weeks ago

Somewhere else

OP, how well do you know each other?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"I've done this before - always with the consent of the ladies in question.

Although one of them has ghosted me since.

She obviously didn't like being dressed from top to toe in blue "

What woman wouldn't?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"OP, how well do you know each other? "

Talk every day know each other kinda level

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary

It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *offiaCoolWoman 49 weeks ago

Kidsgrove


"I've done this before - always with the consent of the ladies in question.

Although one of them has ghosted me since.

She obviously didn't like being dressed from top to toe in blue

What woman wouldn't? "

One it would seem

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x"

Not everyone gives to receive.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

If a man wants to buy me underwear, great.

Doesn't mean he will get to see me in it though

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x"

It's awkward isn't it.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"I've done this before - always with the consent of the ladies in question.

Although one of them has ghosted me since.

She obviously didn't like being dressed from top to toe in blue

What woman wouldn't?

One it would seem "

Well, yeah. In hind sight, but she did initially say it was OK.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago


"Hey,

A question for the ladies….

So I have someone who I recently purchased lingerie for ( something I like to do ), just a little token for Christmas etc etc and it’s a nice thing to do, no alternative motives or agendas just a gift.

She basically said, You don’t need to do that etc etc but I’m smiley angry with you haha, if that makes any sense. Like not angry but I should be.

Do woman over think things when a guy gives you a small token or just you know, that’s for you kinda thing??

Or am I over thinking it haha "

Sounds like your overthinking remember it’s the thought that counts

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x"

I never give to receive, this is something which I have come to experience over time.

I’ve been raised in the sense you give because you want too, never to receive.

It’s like I go to a coffee shop with a friend / colleague, I always ask do you want anything….never in the mind that they owe me a coffee etc etc.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"If a man wants to buy me underwear, great.

Doesn't mean he will get to see me in it though "

Haha, an assured response!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *eronicaExplorerWoman 49 weeks ago

London


"Hey,

A question for the ladies….

So I have someone whom I recently purchased lingerie for ( something I like to do ), just a little token for Christmas etc and it’s a nice thing to do, no alternative motives or agendas just a gift.

She basically said, You don’t need to do that etc etc but I’m smiley angry with you haha, if that makes any sense. Like not angry but I should be.

Do woman over think things when a guy gives you a small token or just you know, that’s for you kinda thing??

Or am I over thinking it haha "

I had never got lingerie as a gift from anybody, I would love a man choosing something suitable for me (I would pay though). Big turn on

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

Not everyone gives to receive. "

I get that it's when it's for Christmas or Valentine's Day, when exchanging gifts is a thing.

Feel a bit of a dick when you're handed something unexpectedly .

Em x

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

"

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago


"Wondering why a male platonic friend had bought me intimate lingerie, would make me wonder why, and I'm not prone to over thinking things."

This.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

Not everyone gives to receive.

I get that it's when it's for Christmas or Valentine's Day, when exchanging gifts is a thing.

Feel a bit of a dick when you're handed something unexpectedly .

Em x"

I'd never do it without her permission. Definitely awkward otherwise.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is "

Blimey!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago


"Oh I should have made that clear,

We met on FAB, we ain’t plutonic haha "

I’d still wonder why personally. “is he buttering me up” “Is he doing this in hope of more”.

I’m sure you’re genuine and just doing it because you enjoy it, but there are so many who gift to receive so it can make you wary.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

I never give to receive, this is something which I have come to experience over time.

I’ve been raised in the sense you give because you want too, never to receive.

It’s like I go to a coffee shop with a friend / colleague, I always ask do you want anything….never in the mind that they owe me a coffee etc etc."

I do that too but as I said to chunky it's awkward if it's for a known gift swapping time like Christmas etc.

Em x

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

I never give to receive, this is something which I have come to experience over time.

I’ve been raised in the sense you give because you want too, never to receive.

It’s like I go to a coffee shop with a friend / colleague, I always ask do you want anything….never in the mind that they owe me a coffee etc etc."

I don't think many people do give to receive but I think that part of giving is taking into consideration how the recipient might feel about it.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

Difficult enough buying your own..!!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is "

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms "

Let's not forget the bag of kindling.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms "

Hahahahaha, this made me chuckle!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

My mum was a great gift giver, she loved it. Whenever anyone gave her anything she'd complain that she didn't want anything and they shouldn't have done it. Eventually I had to take her to one side and tell her that other people enjoy giving too and she was denying them that pleasure, she was also borderline offending them

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

I wouldn't want anyone buying me lingerie I hadn't chosen and tried on myself. I'm very particular.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Let's not forget the bag of kindling. "

Usually in festive red netting

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

And I don't think it's over thinking to question the motives of a FWB buying a gift like that.

I've only ever been bought lingerie by long term and primary partners

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms "

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts "

Even blue underwear?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"I wouldn't want anyone buying me lingerie I hadn't chosen and tried on myself. I'm very particular."

I did do my due diligence and find out her favourite brand / store

But yes I agree, very personal like jewellery.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts

Even blue underwear? "

Unfortunately not

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts "

In the early 80s a male colleague did his Christmas shopping on 24th in a discount chemist and just picked up anything. His grandmother opened a spray feminine deodorant and was deeply insulted

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts

In the early 80s a male colleague did his Christmas shopping on 24th in a discount chemist and just picked up anything. His grandmother opened a spray feminine deodorant and was deeply insulted "

I mean what did he think the response would be haha ….Its what I’ve always wanted haha!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *educing_EmCouple 49 weeks ago

Tipperary


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts

In the early 80s a male colleague did his Christmas shopping on 24th in a discount chemist and just picked up anything. His grandmother opened a spray feminine deodorant and was deeply insulted "

My soul would leave my body

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts

In the early 80s a male colleague did his Christmas shopping on 24th in a discount chemist and just picked up anything. His grandmother opened a spray feminine deodorant and was deeply insulted

I mean what did he think the response would be haha ….Its what I’ve always wanted haha!"

He didn't realise what he'd bought, he just picked up anything. Once his mum told him he was mortally embarrassed

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

It's awkward isn't it.

The worst.

I start calculating where the nearest shop is

Nothing says Christmas like a petrol can and a bag of M and Ms

Petrol stations around here understand the assignment,they've got gift sets and all sorts

In the early 80s a male colleague did his Christmas shopping on 24th in a discount chemist and just picked up anything. His grandmother opened a spray feminine deodorant and was deeply insulted

My soul would leave my body "

It was certainly an awkward lunch. I bet he still wakes up at night sweating

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"Hey,

A question for the ladies….

So I have someone whom I recently purchased lingerie for ( something I like to do ), just a little token for Christmas etc and it’s a nice thing to do, no alternative motives or agendas just a gift.

She basically said, You don’t need to do that etc etc but I’m smiley angry with you haha, if that makes any sense. Like not angry but I should be.

Do woman over think things when a guy gives you a small token or just you know, that’s for you kinda thing??

Or am I over thinking it haha

I had never got lingerie as a gift from anybody, I would love a man choosing something suitable for me (I would pay though). Big turn on "

I once shows a pair of heels for someone.

You answer made me think..so

Many women married or with partners have said this, never been bought like a personal gift. I find this shocking!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

I wouldn't overthink it but I would feel uncomfortable. It's not the same for me, were friendly not actually friends. I wouldn't call a fab friend with a problem or go out with them for a drink etc. It's sex end of.

That's me though, depends on how you've defined your whatever you want to call it ha.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *eronicaExplorerWoman 49 weeks ago

London


"Hey,

A question for the ladies….

So I have someone whom I recently purchased lingerie for ( something I like to do ), just a little token for Christmas etc and it’s a nice thing to do, no alternative motives or agendas just a gift.

She basically said, You don’t need to do that etc etc but I’m smiley angry with you haha, if that makes any sense. Like not angry but I should be.

Do woman over think things when a guy gives you a small token or just you know, that’s for you kinda thing??

Or am I over thinking it haha

I had never got lingerie as a gift from anybody, I would love a man choosing something suitable for me (I would pay though). Big turn on

I once shows a pair of heels for someone.

You answer made me think..so

Many women married or with partners have said this, never been bought like a personal gift. I find this shocking!"

Why?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"Hey,

A question for the ladies….

So I have someone whom I recently purchased lingerie for ( something I like to do ), just a little token for Christmas etc and it’s a nice thing to do, no alternative motives or agendas just a gift.

She basically said, You don’t need to do that etc etc but I’m smiley angry with you haha, if that makes any sense. Like not angry but I should be.

Do woman over think things when a guy gives you a small token or just you know, that’s for you kinda thing??

Or am I over thinking it haha

I had never got lingerie as a gift from anybody, I would love a man choosing something suitable for me (I would pay though). Big turn on

I once shows a pair of heels for someone.

You answer made me think..so

Many women married or with partners have said this, never been bought like a personal gift. I find this shocking!

Why? "

I suppose my thinking has always been as a man why wouldn’t you get something intimate for your partner / lover , just my thinking

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

It's like paying for the promise of sex.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *parkle1974Woman 49 weeks ago

Leeds

I wouldn't like someone buying me underwear....always an ulterior motive involved.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"It's like paying for the promise of sex. "

We can just have sex then.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"I wouldn't like someone buying me underwear....always an ulterior motive involved."

Not even blue?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP    49 weeks ago


"It's like paying for the promise of sex. "

Wow, that’s rather…profound

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago


"It's like paying for the promise of sex.

Wow, that’s rather…profound "

You asked.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *parkle1974Woman 49 weeks ago

Leeds


"I wouldn't like someone buying me underwear....always an ulterior motive involved.

Not even blue? "

Unfortunately I don't suit blue x

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"I wouldn't like someone buying me underwear....always an ulterior motive involved.

Not even blue?

Unfortunately I don't suit blue x"

I'll get me coat

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *imi_RougeWoman 49 weeks ago

Portsmouth


"That’s why I’m asking

It’s not plutonic it’s, we met on FAB. Would you still over think it? "

I'd be really chuffed if anyone bought me anything! It's usually me buying people gifts.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *hunky GentMan 49 weeks ago

Maldon and Peterborough


"That’s why I’m asking

It’s not plutonic it’s, we met on FAB. Would you still over think it?

I'd be really chuffed if anyone bought me anything! It's usually me buying people gifts."

You may get a message from the OP.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *imi_RougeWoman 49 weeks ago

Portsmouth


"It depends really but if I wasn't expecting it and had nothing to give in return I'd be embarrassed.

Em x

Not everyone gives to receive.

I get that it's when it's for Christmas or Valentine's Day, when exchanging gifts is a thing.

Feel a bit of a dick when you're handed something unexpectedly .

Em x"

See, me and my friends do this all the time, it's our "love language" even if it's just a favourite chocolate bar. I'm always baking and giving cake to people, I don't expect anything in return.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *ellinever70Woman 49 weeks ago

Ayrshire

I wouldn't appreciate lingerie as a gift regardless of how well I knew the man.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

Let's face it lingerie isn't a gift for us, it's for the man buying it.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *ddie1966Man 49 weeks ago

Paper Town Central, Essex.

Many ladies have already said exactly what I think on this thread.

If you buy a lady underwear, who are you actually buying if for?

For heavens sake, let her choose it.

And never buy a lady perfume that she's never smelt or heard of.

Unwritten rules a man should never break.

However, these rules should never be adhered to when the lady does the buying.

You have been warned !!!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *icecouple561Couple 49 weeks ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"Let's face it lingerie isn't a gift for us, it's for the man buying it."

Mr N often buys me lingerie. It's for us both.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

  

By (user no longer on site) 49 weeks ago

I would think it odd if anyone I met on on Fab brought me anything let alone undies. But then that's me but can see how maybe people who have more than NSA may do this. Each to their own but guess you both need to be in (sorry going to say it) the same place.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

» Add a new message to this topic

0.0624

0