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Here is a question....
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
Should the pope be able to "dictate" or advise on contraception?
No, hear me out... I have not finished and it is not about the pope at all.
Can you post on something, have an opinion on something you have no experience in? Can people who never had children really know what it is all about?
Can catholic priests really know what it means to be in a relationship?
Can people who have never been out of work know what it is like not to be in work?
I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it? |
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No of cause not, has every doctor and nurse had every single illness going, just because you havent experienced something yourself doesnt necessarily mean your not clued up on it.
Have allthe staff at the GUM clinics had clap at one time or other? |
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People join the priesthood after marriages and kids and all sorts of things, so it's a huge statement to say they don't understand things like that.
I'm ex military and met plent of priests of all faiths and religions. Always asked them how they felt about being involved with the military. They always said something along the lines of why shouldn't they be?
Contraception, well it's a part of the bible. But with many religions things do or do not change at the pace of the modern world. Sure at the moment it's very hard to have an abortion in Northern Ireland. |
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"Should the pope be able to "dictate" or advise on contraception?
No, hear me out... I have not finished and it is not about the pope at all.
Can you post on something, have an opinion on something you have no experience in? Can people who never had children really know what it is all about?
Can catholic priests really know what it means to be in a relationship?
Can people who have never been out of work know what it is like not to be in work?
I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it? "
yes as you can either give your belief in terms of faith or in terms of transferable life experience or experiential learning .
ie :we all love to comment on politics but i suspect there are few politicians on here.........errr come to think of it scrub that last bit  |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Should the pope be able to "dictate" or advise on contraception?
No, hear me out... I have not finished and it is not about the pope at all.
Can you post on something, have an opinion on something you have no experience in? Can people who never had children really know what it is all about?
Can catholic priests really know what it means to be in a relationship?
Can people who have never been out of work know what it is like not to be in work?
I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it? "
How very apposite! When my mother died my boss was not particularly sympathetic. Oh, he tried but failed miserably.
Recently his own mother died and he returned to work this week. I stopped him and gave my condolences and asked him how he was. He then admitted that they way he had behaved to me was probably not the best at the time, but it was only now he realised having actually had the experience.
So, based on that, I would say people can try to understand, they may have an opinion, but, they will never KNOW until they have experienced it themselves.
For example, if you had never had an orgasm during sex, you might claim that they were overrated - right up to the point when you actually experienced one yourself. And then all the nonsense you told friends about it would be exposed to you as just that - nonsense! |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"People join the priesthood after marriages and kids and all sorts of things, so it's a huge statement to say they don't understand things like that.
I'm ex military and met plent of priests of all faiths and religions. Always asked them how they felt about being involved with the military. They always said something along the lines of why shouldn't they be?
Contraception, well it's a part of the bible. But with many religions things do or do not change at the pace of the modern world. Sure at the moment it's very hard to have an abortion in Northern Ireland."
Really sorry, I was caught up in my own upbringing which was catholic so Iwas referring to catholic priests who, as we know are meant to be celibate. Apologies, I did not make that clear in my OP |
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My old boss went to the smoking cessation clinic and used to come back to work really annoyed that a lady that told him she's never smoked a cig in her life was trying to tell him to give up so she didn't appreciate how hard it is.
It's like the slimming club leaders have to have lost weight and maintain to run the classes.
I don't think it's always necessary but people would prob be more likely to listen etc if they know the person has experienced it themselves x |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
I sometimes think it does help to have experienced something - it is likely you have more empathy towards others when you have an idea of what they might be going through. But then maybe a natural dose of general empathy is enough in many cases? |
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By *U1966Man
over a year ago
Devon |
The pope has many deaths he is responsible for now and in the future the spread of aids in africa the catholic church should wake up to reality
But if you elect a former member of the Hitler Youth as pope the people voting for his replacement are mostly his appointments expect a similar pope and policies |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"The pope has many deaths he is responsible for now and in the future the spread of aids in africa the catholic church should wake up to reality
But if you elect a former member of the Hitler Youth as pope the people voting for his replacement are mostly his appointments expect a similar pope and policies "
Actually, that was not what I was asking about - it was not about the pope or any pope - please refer to my OP. I was asking if people can understand somebody's situation without ever having been in it. Please go back to OP and let me know what you think? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The problem with using condoms is, you would start loosing Catholics.
No contraception means more kids and more kids mean more Catholics.
Got nothing to do with God at all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can give facts and figures, explain the rationality of the given subject..but I cannot explain how it will affect someones emotions, particularly if I havent experienced it |
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By *U1966Man
over a year ago
Devon |
You can tell people to give up smoking if you were never stupid enough to smoke but to give guidance about marraige you would need some insight
You cant preach about something you have no knowledge about |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"The problem with using condoms is, you would start loosing Catholics.
No contraception means more kids and more kids mean more Catholics.
Got nothing to do with God at all."
No it has not... and I am really curious whether somebody... anybody is in a position to give advice to people when they have not been in the situation themselves.
See, where I am coming from is this : I can see a doctor giving advice on an illness (even if he/she has not had the illness) based on their clinical knowledge.
I find it much more difficult to take advice on how to raise my kids from somebody who never had children.
That was where I was coming from in my OP. Maybe not explained very well
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"The pope has many deaths he is responsible for now and in the future the spread of aids in africa the catholic church should wake up to reality
But if you elect a former member of the Hitler Youth as pope the people voting for his replacement are mostly his appointments expect a similar pope and policies "
do you seriously think he is the same person, has the same views etc as when he was what 14 ish and living in a regime that thankfully we have not had to live through..
are you the same as when you were that age..?
i certainly am not,and would hazard most people if honest have different views, outlooks etc.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Opinions are like arseholes...everyone has one! I do think that experience will add weight to an opinion, but as everyone's experiences are different so are most opinions. Guess we all choose who's opinion matters to us as an individual x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I often read threads but don't contribute due to not having firsthand experience... threads about parenting for example, of course I have oppinions but I don't have experience so I wouldn't even consider spouting off to people about 'bring up kids'
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Opinions are like arseholes...everyone has one! I do think that experience will add weight to an opinion, but as everyone's experiences are different so are most opinions. Guess we all choose who's opinion matters to us as an individual x"
Nice one Goldilocks.  |
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"Should the pope be able to "dictate" or advise on contraception?
No, hear me out... I have not finished and it is not about the pope at all.
Can you post on something, have an opinion on something you have no experience in? Can people who never had children really know what it is all about?
Can catholic priests really know what it means to be in a relationship?
Can people who have never been out of work know what it is like not to be in work?
I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it? "
i can talk about a lit if things! |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I often read threads but don't contribute due to not having firsthand experience... threads about parenting for example, of course I have oppinions but I don't have experience so I wouldn't even consider spouting off to people about 'bring up kids'
"
That is precisely how I feel on some threads. I read them with interest but when I feel I dont know anything about the topic... I hold back. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Should the pope be able to "dictate" or advise on contraception?
No, hear me out... I have not finished and it is not about the pope at all.
Can you post on something, have an opinion on something you have no experience in? Can people who never had children really know what it is all about?
Can catholic priests really know what it means to be in a relationship?
Can people who have never been out of work know what it is like not to be in work?
I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it? i can talk about a lit if things! "
Go for it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it? "
No. There are lots of situations where a diversity of opinions is of more value than just one sub set. It may be that those with direct experience can comment more personally, but everyone has the right to comment. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it?
No. There are lots of situations where a diversity of opinions is of more value than just one sub set. It may be that those with direct experience can comment more personally, but everyone has the right to comment."
I agree people have the right to comment - and I guess it is up to the person asking for advice/ opinions to take it from all or only from those they consider having had sufficient primary ezperience then. |
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I think people can have an opinion on things without directly experiencing it...after all, how many people have had EXACTLY the same experience? No-one as we all perceive things differently.
For example, if you had banged your toe and I subsequently banged my toe, the experiences would be entirely different as different pain levels could be felt, different physiological events could happen (in terms of oedema, bleeding etc.) and so I would not have had the same experience as you but I still feel that I could comment on it nonetheless lol
It would be exactly the same if you banged your toe and I didn't; I could still comment on it as I could empathise with what had happened...in effect, envisaging myself experiencing the same phenomenon; just the same all things considered |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I think people can have an opinion on things without directly experiencing it...after all, how many people have had EXACTLY the same experience? No-one as we all perceive things differently.
For example, if you had banged your toe and I subsequently banged my toe, the experiences would be entirely different as different pain levels could be felt, different physiological events could happen (in terms of oedema, bleeding etc.) and so I would not have had the same experience as you but I still feel that I could comment on it nonetheless lol
It would be exactly the same if you banged your toe and I didn't; I could still comment on it as I could empathise with what had happened...in effect, envisaging myself experiencing the same phenomenon; just the same all things considered "
good point!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think a lot of what's being suggested isn't really to do with people's right to give comment. Instead it's on the weight you might choose to give those comments when given.
We all make those decisions every day. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it?
No. There are lots of situations where a diversity of opinions is of more value than just one sub set. It may be that those with direct experience can comment more personally, but everyone has the right to comment.I agree people have the right to comment - and I guess it is up to the person asking for advice/ opinions to take it from all or only from those they consider having had sufficient primary ezperience then. "
lol just posted the same  |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I think a lot of what's being suggested isn't really to do with people's right to give comment. Instead it's on the weight you might choose to give those comments when given.
We all make those decisions every day."
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I am asking in general - do you have to have a primary experience of something before you can comment on it?
No. There are lots of situations where a diversity of opinions is of more value than just one sub set. It may be that those with direct experience can comment more personally, but everyone has the right to comment.I agree people have the right to comment - and I guess it is up to the person asking for advice/ opinions to take it from all or only from those they consider having had sufficient primary ezperience then.
lol just posted the same "
noted lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think people can have an opinion on things without directly experiencing it...after all, how many people have had EXACTLY the same experience? No-one as we all perceive things differently.
For example, if you had banged your toe and I subsequently banged my toe, the experiences would be entirely different as different pain levels could be felt, different physiological events could happen (in terms of oedema, bleeding etc.) and so I would not have had the same experience as you but I still feel that I could comment on it nonetheless lol
It would be exactly the same if you banged your toe and I didn't; I could still comment on it as I could empathise with what had happened...in effect, envisaging myself experiencing the same phenomenon; just the same all things considered "
This sums it up for me. You could say you need to have experience of something... but as everyone experiences things differently then does it really matter?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well I have opinions about Abortion, though no actual experience of it myself.
Some opinions are based on experience, others are based on what we understand about something.
Religious leaders have no physical experience of Christ or God.
They do however offer opinions on what they perceive/believe based on their knowledge of the subject.
See it a bit like NASA sending someone to the moon.
They have no experience of going themselves, but do have experience based on what they believe/perceive to be best knowledge. |
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"i think you can comment without personal experience .. you can observe situations around you that others are involved in and form sound opinions based on those observations"
agreed, sometimes a 'fresh' pair of eyes or someone not involved can look at an issue more objectively..
wont always mean they will be right but could help.. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
The reason I was asking in the first place is this : When I was younger I had certain ideas of what it would be like to be a mum for example. I had it laid out what I was going to do, how I was going to bring up my children etc... and then reality struck and it was all very different to what I had had expected.
Based on that experience alone (and I have more relating to work etc) I wondered whether it was possible to have a degree of empathy I guess tp understnad and advise on things you ahve not experienced first hand. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"The problem with using condoms is, you would start loosing Catholics.
No contraception means more kids and more kids mean more Catholics.
Got nothing to do with God at all.
No it has not... and I am really curious whether somebody... anybody is in a position to give advice to people when they have not been in the situation themselves.
See, where I am coming from is this : I can see a doctor giving advice on an illness (even if he/she has not had the illness) based on their clinical knowledge.
I find it much more difficult to take advice on how to raise my kids from somebody who never had children.
That was where I was coming from in my OP. Maybe not explained very well
"
I remember being in antenatal classes and being told by the very young physios in there that childbirth did not hurt at all. I was on my first but had spoken to a lot of experienced mothers so knew this was bull which probably came out of a text book.
An older woman asked them if they had any children. They both said no. Then she said, 'I'm on my seventh here. And I can tell you, it hurts like bloody hell every time.'
They did look rather embarrassed at that. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"It's not easy to have an opinion if a physical act without having experience surely? WHat is a physical act for you? for example, only someone who has given birth knows how much it hurts "
Got you |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"The problem with using condoms is, you would start loosing Catholics.
No contraception means more kids and more kids mean more Catholics.
Got nothing to do with God at all.
No it has not... and I am really curious whether somebody... anybody is in a position to give advice to people when they have not been in the situation themselves.
See, where I am coming from is this : I can see a doctor giving advice on an illness (even if he/she has not had the illness) based on their clinical knowledge.
I find it much more difficult to take advice on how to raise my kids from somebody who never had children.
That was where I was coming from in my OP. Maybe not explained very well
I remember being in antenatal classes and being told by the very young physios in there that childbirth did not hurt at all. I was on my first but had spoken to a lot of experienced mothers so knew this was bull which probably came out of a text book.
An older woman asked them if they had any children. They both said no. Then she said, 'I'm on my seventh here. And I can tell you, it hurts like bloody hell every time.'
They did look rather embarrassed at that."
I have a similar experience lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful "
A new view is one thing but dictating to someone about an experience you know nothing about is potentially dangerous. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful "
I can see what you mean. Makes me think that maybe sometimes having had the experience of something could also, conversely, make us blind to other options? That we have experienced something in a particualr way and then think that it has got to be like that always?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful
A new view is one thing but dictating to someone about an experience you know nothing about is potentially dangerous."
Thats Dave Cameron screwed on back to work then  |
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"Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful "
good point, often we have an " it's always been done this way" attitude whereas a fresh pair of eyes are not blinkered
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful
A new view is one thing but dictating to someone about an experience you know nothing about is potentially dangerous.
Thats Dave Cameron screwed on back to work then "
He does have experience at parenting skills though |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Think sometimes as well not having an experience can make an opinion let biased as you can look at something logically without emotion...may not be suitable in all situations but sometimes a new view on things can be helpful good point, often we have an " it's always been done this way" attitude whereas a fresh pair of eyes are not blinkered "
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A judge can give an opinion based on the information presented to him, a jury is guided by the judge who is bound by laws, which are made by people who are 'supposedly' experts in their field.
I guess some roles need the input of people who have studied and researched situations rather than actully experienced them.
I know what I mean, even if I think Ive just written it in Chinese lol  |
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"A judge can give an opinion based on the information presented to him, a jury is guided by the judge who is bound by laws, which are made by people who are 'supposedly' experts in their field.
I guess some roles need the input of people who have studied and researched situations rather than actully experienced them.
I know what I mean, even if I think Ive just written it in Chinese lol "
the example if a doctor Is such a good one |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"A judge can give an opinion based on the information presented to him, a jury is guided by the judge who is bound by laws, which are made by people who are 'supposedly' experts in their field.
I guess some roles need the input of people who have studied and researched situations rather than actully experienced them.
I know what I mean, even if I think Ive just written it in Chinese lol "
Not chinese at all.. difference between experiential or learnt knowledge |
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"I remember being in antenatal classes and being told by the very young physios in there that childbirth did not hurt at all. I was on my first but had spoken to a lot of experienced mothers so knew this was bull which probably came out of a text book.
An older woman asked them if they had any children. They both said no. Then she said, 'I'm on my seventh here. And I can tell you, it hurts like bloody hell every time.'
They did look rather embarrassed at that."
I'll be honest and say that I do not know of many physios that run A/N classes..it's usually the midwife lol
The argument that childbirth is so painful is slightly undermined by the whole she is 'on her seventh' comment...if something hurts me that badly, I am usually eager not to repeat the experience lol It seems that a lot of women sabotage each other and try to make their labour seem very painful and long for whatever reason which adds to the fear of first time mums to be.
Having said that, I (m) can empathise and I DO believe that childbirth is very painful for some, moderately painful for others and fine for still others and that is why a range of pain relief is offered from paracetamol and codeine, entonox, pethidine / diamorphine through to epidurals for the women who really cannot handle the pain of labour (and it's called 'labour' for a reason; it's hard!) |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I remember being in antenatal classes and being told by the very young physios in there that childbirth did not hurt at all. I was on my first but had spoken to a lot of experienced mothers so knew this was bull which probably came out of a text book.
An older woman asked them if they had any children. They both said no. Then she said, 'I'm on my seventh here. And I can tell you, it hurts like bloody hell every time.'
They did look rather embarrassed at that.
I'll be honest and say that I do not know of many physios that run A/N classes..it's usually the midwife lol
The argument that childbirth is so painful is slightly undermined by the whole she is 'on her seventh' comment...if something hurts me that badly, I am usually eager not to repeat the experience lol It seems that a lot of women sabotage each other and try to make their labour seem very painful and long for whatever reason which adds to the fear of first time mums to be.
Having said that, I (m) can empathise and I DO believe that childbirth is very painful for some, moderately painful for others and fine for still others and that is why a range of pain relief is offered from paracetamol and codeine, entonox, pethidine / diamorphine through to epidurals for the women who really cannot handle the pain of labour (and it's called 'labour' for a reason; it's hard!) "
How interesting. Would you say, based on that, that unless the midwife had children herself she would not really know what it is like to have them? |
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"How interesting. Would you say, based on that, that unless the midwife had children herself she would not really know what it is like to have them? "
No definitely not; one labour can be very different to another.
Say, for example that the midwife looking after you had an extremely traumatic labour and subsequent birth by forceps / ventouse or even a C/S and your labour was a nice and relaxed water birth then she would have no basis for comparison and so would not know what it is like.
I would say that due to the training that nurses and midwives have, they are given the tools and knowledge to be as experienced as possible in many different scenarios to be able to help, guide and empathise with you.
Same as your scenario with the Dr not having to have the illness to appreciate its effects |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"I remember being in antenatal classes and being told by the very young physios in there that childbirth did not hurt at all. I was on my first but had spoken to a lot of experienced mothers so knew this was bull which probably came out of a text book.
An older woman asked them if they had any children. They both said no. Then she said, 'I'm on my seventh here. And I can tell you, it hurts like bloody hell every time.'
They did look rather embarrassed at that.
I'll be honest and say that I do not know of many physios that run A/N classes..it's usually the midwife lol
The argument that childbirth is so painful is slightly undermined by the whole she is 'on her seventh' comment...if something hurts me that badly, I am usually eager not to repeat the experience lol It seems that a lot of women sabotage each other and try to make their labour seem very painful and long for whatever reason which adds to the fear of first time mums to be.
Having said that, I (m) can empathise and I DO believe that childbirth is very painful for some, moderately painful for others and fine for still others and that is why a range of pain relief is offered from paracetamol and codeine, entonox, pethidine / diamorphine through to epidurals for the women who really cannot handle the pain of labour (and it's called 'labour' for a reason; it's hard!) "
It's usually the midwife NOW -this was 31 years ago. They were physios I assure you.
As for the suggestion that, as she was on her seventh then it undermines the assertion that childbirth was painful that does not hold true. The need to reproduce for many overwhelms the fear (if any) of the pain.
My mother had 3 - all of which she assured me were painful. Her mother had 10 - the pain did not stop her from having children - though in her day there was little if any contraception. |
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" The need to reproduce for many overwhelms the fear (if any) of the pain.
My mother had 3 - all of which she assured me were painful. Her mother had 10 - the pain did not stop her from having children - though in her day there was little if any contraception."
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I am certainly not denigrating yours.
I am not suggesting it is not painful, I am just saying that different women have different experiences and not all experience the level of pain you are describing and it is a shame that some women feel the need to almost advertise their negative experience or negative anecdotal experiences of extreme pain of labour as a badge of honour, worrying women who have not yet gone through it and who may have a positive labour that they look on as a beautiful experience. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Makes me think that maybe sometimes having had the experience of something could also, conversely, make us blind to other options? That we have experienced something in a particualr way and then think that it has got to be like that always? "
This is a classic issue between adults and children where adults are inclined to dismiss children's ideas or tell them they won't work, when sometimes its better to play along, or let them try anyway. Ever so now and again, it can be surprising. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"
I am not suggesting it is not painful, I am just saying that different women have different experiences and not all experience the level of pain you are describing and it is a shame that some women feel the need to almost advertise their negative experience or negative anecdotal experiences of extreme pain of labour as a badge of honour, worrying women who have not yet gone through it and who may have a positive labour that they look on as a beautiful experience."
I can subscribe to that - I feel pregnacy and all that goes with it is neither a badge of honour, dor does it have to be associated with dramatic stories of pain and gore. I completely understand that some women are unfortunate in their experience of pain while others have it easier. It all depends on the individual case and a little bit on what role mode the owman had about the topic of childbirth, perhaps? |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"It's like on here , people will say you're not for them but actually they may like you if they conversed or met ! But they make their mind up immediately "
What you are saying is... that you cannot judge a book by its cover, right?
Very valid point - and I was asking about how accurate somebody's view can be on something they have not experienced. So I guess you are stating similar but in a different way. |
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