FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Fab intuition
Fab intuition
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't? 
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think my intuition is pretty good, I can see the games being played and all that shenanigans.
Although I think I’m better at reading the men on here than the women tbf as I’m obviously closer to the male psyche, being one myself.
I take everything on here with a huge pinch of salt, at the end of the day it’s a fuck site.
I’m more here for entertainment these days, my era of regular meets has long since passed (I do my sexual stuff mostly at clubs on those rare days I get free) so it’s all just a bit of fun and banter really, isn’t it?  |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
"I think I'm pretty good intuition wise. I don't always listen to it but my brain is usually right about this stuff."
Ohhhhhhhh! Is this that "my instincts have never failed me" bullshit that' gets spouted when something happens you were expecting but completely and totally ignored and not referenced when something goes wrong? |
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My common sense and observation skills are pretty fucking good thanks.
But this bit:
"Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?"
I’m still shit at that bit. That’s not down to poor intuition though, just poor self-image. I’m always surprised when someone’s into me. (If I wasn’t, I think I’d need to give this whole thing up and take a long, hard look at my attitude.) |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"I think I'm pretty good intuition wise. I don't always listen to it but my brain is usually right about this stuff.
Ohhhhhhhh! Is this that "my instincts have never failed me" bullshit that' gets spouted when something happens you were expecting but completely and totally ignored and not referenced when something goes wrong? "
Fuck no... this is that "this is what's likely to happen/be the case... oh look, I was right, I should have saved myself the effort" bullshit.
Keep up ffs. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm reckon I'm pretty good with the "they're banging" intuition. Though it's quite hard not to notice with some, so may not be my intuition skills after all.
"
Sometimes the videos give it away. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
"I think I'm pretty good intuition wise. I don't always listen to it but my brain is usually right about this stuff.
Ohhhhhhhh! Is this that "my instincts have never failed me" bullshit that' gets spouted when something happens you were expecting but completely and totally ignored and not referenced when something goes wrong?
Fuck no... this is that "this is what's likely to happen/be the case... oh look, I was right, I should have saved myself the effort" bullshit.
Keep up ffs."
Is that not the same thing?
I essentially look at that as, yeah it's great when you are right, but you get it wrong and it's just brushed off and away |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think my intuition is pretty good, I can see the games being played and all that shenanigans.
Although I think I’m better at reading the men on here than the women tbf as I’m obviously closer to the male psyche, being one myself.
I take everything on here with a huge pinch of salt, at the end of the day it’s a fuck site.
I’m more here for entertainment these days, my era of regular meets has long since passed (I do my sexual stuff mostly at clubs on those rare days I get free) so it’s all just a bit of fun and banter really, isn’t it? "
It's better than most social media sites. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
"I'm reckon I'm pretty good with the "they're banging" intuition. Though it's quite hard not to notice with some, so may not be my intuition skills after all.
"
I'm only banging those people in my mind! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think I'm pretty good intuition wise. I don't always listen to it but my brain is usually right about this stuff.
Ohhhhhhhh! Is this that "my instincts have never failed me" bullshit that' gets spouted when something happens you were expecting but completely and totally ignored and not referenced when something goes wrong?
Fuck no... this is that "this is what's likely to happen/be the case... oh look, I was right, I should have saved myself the effort" bullshit.
Keep up ffs."
Yeah! |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"I'm reckon I'm pretty good with the "they're banging" intuition. Though it's quite hard not to notice with some, so may not be my intuition skills after all.
Sometimes the videos give it away. "
Well... that too  |
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My fab intuition has improved, I was a bit naive to start with.
I can usually tell if someone likes me or doesn't in a friendly way. Although some people I'm clueless.
I'm not good at knowing if someone is attracted unless they're very blunt about it.
J |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
The soft side of me wants to take everything at face value. I'm generally quite good at reading if people are interested in each other. When it comes to myself though, nope not at all. I tell myself it's just flirty banter and nothing more.
If I feel like a third option, which I don't always mind because sometimes people want to meet others and I'm not high on that list, depending how it's handled I can lose interest quickly. It's self preservation really. |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"I think I'm pretty good intuition wise. I don't always listen to it but my brain is usually right about this stuff.
Ohhhhhhhh! Is this that "my instincts have never failed me" bullshit that' gets spouted when something happens you were expecting but completely and totally ignored and not referenced when something goes wrong?
Fuck no... this is that "this is what's likely to happen/be the case... oh look, I was right, I should have saved myself the effort" bullshit.
Keep up ffs.
Is that not the same thing?
I essentially look at that as, yeah it's great when you are right, but you get it wrong and it's just brushed off and away"
So far... I've not been wrong. With regard to fab anyway. |
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"I'm reckon I'm pretty good with the "they're banging" intuition. Though it's quite hard not to notice with some, so may not be my intuition skills after all.
Sometimes the videos give it away. "
Yep, they help. As well as this finely tuned sixth sense. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My common sense and observation skills are pretty fucking good thanks.
But this bit:Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?I’m still shit at that bit. That’s not down to poor intuition though, just poor self-image. I’m always surprised when someone’s into me. (If I wasn’t, I think I’d need to give this whole thing up and take a long, hard look at my attitude.)"
Say exhibit A turns around and says hey RTG I like you.
Do you take it at face value?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm reckon I'm pretty good with the "they're banging" intuition. Though it's quite hard not to notice with some, so may not be my intuition skills after all.
I'm only banging those people in my mind! "
I do other things to them I my mind.... |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
Oh... when it comes to if someone likes me or not... I just assume it's a no. Until there is actual physical contact. Even then I'm not convinced much of the time. |
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I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The soft side of me wants to take everything at face value. I'm generally quite good at reading if people are interested in each other. When it comes to myself though, nope not at all. I tell myself it's just flirty banter and nothing more.
If I feel like a third option, which I don't always mind because sometimes people want to meet others and I'm not high on that list, depending how it's handled I can lose interest quickly. It's self preservation really."
Self preservation or self sabotage? Just because I know I'm guilty of the second but maybe I'm just doing the first.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh... when it comes to if someone likes me or not... I just assume it's a no. Until there is actual physical contact. Even then I'm not convinced much of the time."
I'd still question it even when the penis is in. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though. "
Just not plan b! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though. "
Surely that’s exactly what it makes you? Are we all not just options? |
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
Just not plan b!"
I don't want to be anyone's Plan B.
I want to be Plan You and Me  |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"Oh... when it comes to if someone likes me or not... I just assume it's a no. Until there is actual physical contact. Even then I'm not convinced much of the time.
I'd still question it even when the penis is in. "
Yup. Same. And even after they've blown their load.
And come back again another day...  |
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"Say exhibit A turns around and says hey RTG I like you.
Do you take it at face value?"
Yes. After the surprise and amazement has worn off.
Until it turns into a longer conversation/friendship or an actual face to face date, then it’s just that - liking each other enough to chat. Where’s the harm? |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
"The soft side of me wants to take everything at face value. I'm generally quite good at reading if people are interested in each other. When it comes to myself though, nope not at all. I tell myself it's just flirty banter and nothing more.
If I feel like a third option, which I don't always mind because sometimes people want to meet others and I'm not high on that list, depending how it's handled I can lose interest quickly. It's self preservation really.
Self preservation or self sabotage? Just because I know I'm guilty of the second but maybe I'm just doing the first.
"
Well... you expect people to meet others don't you? If they're not putting that energy and effort in to it, if you feel like... it's not that important, it's self preservation to take a step back. Well it is for me. I know that some people are really good at handling it... they don't make you feel like you're on a list to be ticked off. If I start feeling a bit... like they can't be arsed, I back away.
Self sabotage is when someone is putting in the effort and you think nah, this is too good to be true. They won't want to meet me. And then you put space between them so you don't get hurt because in your head you will. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
Just not plan b!
I don't want to be anyone's Plan B.
I want to be Plan You and Me "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Say exhibit A turns around and says hey RTG I like you.
Do you take it at face value?
Yes. After the surprise and amazement has worn off.
Until it turns into a longer conversation/friendship or an actual face to face date, then it’s just that - liking each other enough to chat. Where’s the harm?"
Do you not question why they like you?
They can't just be me....right? |
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
Surely that’s exactly what it makes you? Are we all not just options? "
I get what you're saying. We are all options but then there's realistic options. One's where you both share a mutual attraction. A mutual liking of each others shit banter. A mutual interest in each other. |
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
Just not plan b!
I don't want to be anyone's Plan B.
I want to be Plan You and Me
"
You're so mean to me a times. I've been nothing but nice to you  |
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
"
My intuition is pretty good. I notice things and I see things coming a lot of the time. I remember small things (not on purpose) and will watch the dots line up.
I can tell when I'm not someone's first choice.
I can usually tell if someone likes me but there's always one or two that are hard to read.
Em x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My intuition sucks.
I need the sledgehammer approach. If someone likes me, tell me. If I like someone, I tell them in terms that are as plain as day and night.
I prefer to keep it simple here. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" 
Demi, you’re not even letting Raven *try* to use her detective skills here. We might as well have left each other veris, or something.  "
I sense sarcasm trying to escape there.
Trying to.
Other people post videos you know! |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
"My intuition sucks.
I need the sledgehammer approach. If someone likes me, tell me. If I like someone, I tell them in terms that are as plain as day and night.
I prefer to keep it simple here. "
The sledgehammer approach is the best. It's also fucking scary because... they might say no, affronted at the mere suggestion.  |
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
"
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
|
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
Okay... I think I get it. I still think it's less about intuition/instincts/whatever and more about statistical assumptions based on patterns of others. Which just essentially still comes down to 50/50 if you are right, to which we pat ourselves on the back and say "I knew it", but if we get it wrong we ignore that we got it wrong and still think our intuition is flawless. |
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I don’t care who might be banging who. And I’ve never questioned whether I might be someone’s third option. The joy and uniqueness of being here is precisely to have options. Otherwise you might as well be on Go Fish.
Do I trust my intuition? Not any more. So the defences are up. A couple people might get through them, but it’ll take time x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
"
Their actions usually does it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Okay... I think I get it. I still think it's less about intuition/instincts/whatever and more about statistical assumptions based on patterns of others. Which just essentially still comes down to 50/50 if you are right, to which we pat ourselves on the back and say "I knew it", but if we get it wrong we ignore that we got it wrong and still think our intuition is flawless. "
No |
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"Do you not question why they like you?
That can't just be me....right?"
No, I really don’t. Any self-doubt is my own problem. I don’t presume it’s theirs.
I’m trying to read between the lines here, but is your worry about ulterior motives? Because what would those motives be - wanting to have sex with you? Isn’t that usually precisely because they *do* actually like you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My intuition sucks.
I need the sledgehammer approach. If someone likes me, tell me. If I like someone, I tell them in terms that are as plain as day and night.
I prefer to keep it simple here.
The sledgehammer approach is the best. It's also fucking scary because... they might say no, affronted at the mere suggestion. "
I’d prefer that. It keeps me from having that head fuck that plays on my mind, wondering about whether they do or don’t. |
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"Oh I question everything, constantly.
Less comparison to other people, but often the am I actual person here or just a selection of orifices "
To 99% of the men on here we are just orifices for them to dump a load and move on. Most see women as a sex object and nothing more.
Mrs |
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Who's doing what to whom and with what and when doesn't interest me at all in regards to sex so I don't need intuition for any of that.
I don't need it for anyone I'm interested in either because I spend a long time chatting and getting to know people before we even have coffee together nevermind get naked.
Where my intuition is helpful is as a follow up to certain experiences when I can see others make comments on the forums about things being said about them or certain negative experiences.
My intuition tells me exactly who the culprits are and I'm rarely wrong.
My intuition also tells me who will enable that behaviour and who is suffering from fanny blindness. |
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"Oh I question everything, constantly.
Less comparison to other people, but often the am I actual person here or just a selection of orifices
To 99% of the men on here we are just orifices for them to dump a load and move on. Most see women as a sex object and nothing more.
Mrs"
I don't think there's any need to limit that 99% to on here.
I think I'm pretty good at knowing when someone sees me as a whole person though |
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"Okay... I think I get it. I still think it's less about intuition/instincts/whatever and more about statistical assumptions based on patterns of others. Which just essentially still comes down to 50/50 if you are right, to which we pat ourselves on the back and say "I knew it", but if we get it wrong we ignore that we got it wrong and still think our intuition is flawless. "
Confirmation bias and selective memory.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though. "
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period. |
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it."
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? "
I'm sorry I'll get right on with the spreadsheet. |
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I’m oblivious.
I have little interest in what anyone does outside of meeting us for an experience.
There’s currently very few profiles that we have any interest in for more than forum banter and this has been the case for a few years now.
I come here to amuse myself… nothing more. |
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period. "
I'm not saying they're not playing games but the fact they're gaslighting you is pretty black and white they're attracted to you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
Surely that’s exactly what it makes you? Are we all not just options?
I get what you're saying. We are all options but then there's realistic options. One's where you both share a mutual attraction. A mutual liking of each others shit banter. A mutual interest in each other."
But all the time it’s not exclusive you’re just an option surely. No matter how much you like each other |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period.
I'm not saying they're not playing games but the fact they're gaslighting you is pretty black and white they're attracted to you."
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic not an attraction sign |
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
Surely that’s exactly what it makes you? Are we all not just options? "
Yes and no I’d say. But there’s a way of doing it respectfully. Is the difference between things like making time for the people who matter to you vs dropping people when a better option comes along. |
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period. "
There’s a lot of that about. I think that’s where the intuition comes in - to spot those so you can walk and to spot the ones who are clear cut. |
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
I'm sorry I'll get right on with the spreadsheet. "
That’s a passive aggressive no, then.
So, given you’re relying on fallible human memory and you imply you question everything, how wiling are you to question your intuition and accept the fact you’re maybe wrong about it?
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
I'm sorry I'll get right on with the spreadsheet.
That’s a passive aggressive no, then.
So, given you’re relying on fallible human memory and you imply you question everything, how wiling are you to question your intuition and accept the fact you’re maybe wrong about it?
"
I have some strong intuition right about now!
Also, my memory is freaking awesome, annoyingly so. Just call me Sheldon. Actually don't do that.
Have I ever been proved wrong though... no.
|
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"That’s a passive aggressive no, then.
So, given you’re relying on fallible human memory and you imply you question everything, how wiling are you to question your intuition and accept the fact you’re maybe wrong about it?
"
Is this your version of negging? 
J |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? "
What would your statistical methods be?  |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period.
I'm not saying they're not playing games but the fact they're gaslighting you is pretty black and white they're attracted to you."
Say what?
And it was my ex who gaslighted for a long period. Although guys have tried here as well |
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
I'm sorry I'll get right on with the spreadsheet.
That’s a passive aggressive no, then.
So, given you’re relying on fallible human memory and you imply you question everything, how wiling are you to question your intuition and accept the fact you’re maybe wrong about it?
I have some strong intuition right about now!
Also, my memory is freaking awesome, annoyingly so. Just call me Sheldon. Actually don't do that.
Have I ever been proved wrong though... no.
"
Dunning-Kruger, right there.
|
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
I'm sorry I'll get right on with the spreadsheet.
That’s a passive aggressive no, then.
So, given you’re relying on fallible human memory and you imply you question everything, how wiling are you to question your intuition and accept the fact you’re maybe wrong about it?
I have some strong intuition right about now!
Also, my memory is freaking awesome, annoyingly so. Just call me Sheldon. Actually don't do that.
Have I ever been proved wrong though... no.
Dunning-Kruger, right there.
"
And again, I'm not wrong! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be? "
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
|
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"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period.
I'm not saying they're not playing games but the fact they're gaslighting you is pretty black and white they're attracted to you.
Say what?
And it was my ex who gaslighted for a long period. Although guys have tried here as well "
I was thinking more love bombing. Obviously I don't know your past situation. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
"
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions? "
Do I expect her to?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
"
Do you? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not sure how good my intuition is to be honest. Girls a very cryptic at times. I find men on a whole are more black and white.
With regards to am I just another option, is she sleeping with him, am I the only one she's messaging? That would be naive of me to belive on a swingers site I'm not one of a few. It doesn't make me just an option though.
I've never found men on here to be black and white? Everyone is playing games. I'm crap at playing games. And my intuition is fucked up by gaslighting over a very long period.
I'm not saying they're not playing games but the fact they're gaslighting you is pretty black and white they're attracted to you.
Say what?
And it was my ex who gaslighted for a long period. Although guys have tried here as well
I was thinking more love bombing. Obviously I don't know your past situation."
Love bombing and gaslighting are completely separate things. Both are manipulative. Love bombing is a tactic of "bombing" the other person with extreme attention / affection. Gaslighting is distorting the truth to control the other person - lying, manipulating reality, scapegoating and coercion.
Neither are a sign of attraction. |
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Do you? "
What do you mean? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
"
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be. "
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it? "
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Some people jump to conclusions, I leap to them. The second someone gives me a reason to start doubting them, they are kind of stuck in that cycle with me. Sometimes I get it wrong but most of the time I see through people's bullshit and are proven to be right. |
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I mean I was shit back in the day when I met people and wanted to socialise. I expect people to be transparent and honest and that’s not been the case at all.
Now I’m off radar I’m oblivious. No idea what anyones up to because I don’t care. It doesn’t affect me so ignorance is bliss.
I’m only interested in people who can be their full selves. Warts and all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho. "
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho.
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
"
What's the difference?
J |
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I'll go along with the conversation but at some point alarm bells can start to ring, at that point I usually cease. I had joined an 'affair' site but the conversations from several different 'women' all had a similar feel - I suspect AI or some east European sweaty bloke stringing on sad blokes |
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or View forums list | |
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho.
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J"
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho.
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity? "
You're quite argumentative aren't you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho.
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity? "
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho.
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What's yours like?
Are you the type to add 2+2 and get 4?
I reckon I'm pretty good on here.
I know for sure that guy I like, he's banging her.
I know I'm about the 3rd best option for that other guy.
Can you tell if someone likes you? Or doesn't?
Do you just take it at face value if they say they do?
Or do you question EVERYTHING.
And no I'm not stalkerish or that invested in YOUR sex life, I just happen to have more than 2 brain cells and be pretty observant.
How do you confirm your intuition is correct?
Their actions usually does it.
Usually?
So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way?
What would your statistical methods be?
I’ve given it no thought. For obvious reasons.
But you expect Raven to, when all she's done is start a thread to seek other people's opinions?
Do I expect her to?
Yes, you seem to be. "So you’ve not measured this in any meaningful way? " was your comment. I asked you how you would measure and you don't have an answer. But the implication is that she should be.
I seem to be?
That’s your inference.
That’s none of my business is it?
Nope. It isn't. But nonetheless you challenged and then called her passive aggressive. Hey-ho.
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J"
Can you stand on your head  |
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Intuition off fab is very good but I’ve very little idea if a lady or couple on here are talking to me to be polite or want to get down and dirty with me ?! Lol
Please make it more obvious if you’re talking to me |
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"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head "
What does your intuition tell you?
J |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Demi, you’re not even letting Raven *try* to use her detective skills here. We might as well have left each other veris, or something. "
No idea what you’re talking about. |
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"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head
What does your intuition tell you?
J"
Would you like me to give you a clue? |
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I have no idea who likes me and who doesn't.
I have even less idea who's fucking who but I really don't care on that part.
I question everything, sometimes I think people just forum flirt and aren't actually interested, maybe they are I've no idea.
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think I am pretty good about getting an idea. I get it wrong though ha of course I do I'm human and not a mind reader but overall I can tell if someone is genuinely intersted in me or just looking to use my orifices and be gone hahah. |
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"Some people jump to conclusions, I leap to them. The second someone gives me a reason to start doubting them, they are kind of stuck in that cycle with me. Sometimes I get it wrong but most of the time I see through people's bullshit and are proven to be right. "
Can you give me some pointers please.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I don’t know to be fair. I sometimes think this person I’ve spoken to in the past is amazing and might like me. I feel I know we’d get along. Then she stops chatting and decides we probably aren’t suited.
So I guess sometimes my radar is off… not sure what she thinks to be fair. I sometimes wish I knew. But I can’t change her mind which is sad. As I really do think we’d have fun.
But you’re probably right
Guys don’t really have that insight into women.
I’ve always been surprised when a woman has told me that I’m their type and I was oblivious.
|
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"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head
What does your intuition tell you?
J
Would you like me to give you a clue? "
Would you like me to?
J |
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I have zero intuition. Like total lack of awareness.
If you don’t tell me - I assume you just enjoy my conversation skills & I’m good with that.
I don’t know or care who’s fucking who. Unless you tell me & I’ll probably be delighted for you.
I do sometimes question if I’m quite in the right place |
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"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head
What does your intuition tell you?
J
Would you like me to give you a clue?
Would you like me to?
J"
Would you like it if I do?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head
What does your intuition tell you?
J
Would you like me to give you a clue?
Would you like me to?
J
Would you like it if I do? "
Would I like it if you stand on your head?
J |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head
What does your intuition tell you?
J
Would you like me to give you a clue?
Would you like me to?
J
Would you like it if I do? "
Would you two like some help?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"
Did I call her passive aggressive?
Or did I call her reply passive aggressive?
What's the difference?
J
You can’t see the difference between behaviour and identity?
Of course I can. I'm just enjoying answering everything with a question. Just like you.
J
Can you stand on your head
What does your intuition tell you?
J
Would you like me to give you a clue?
Would you like me to?
J
Would you like it if I do?
Would you two like some help? "
Are you offering?
J |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Raven, I am so sorry. I will stop now.
J
I hijack enough people's threads, it's fine!
Don't let her off! Demand compensation "
Do you think she should demand compensation?  |
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