FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > If I had a water fight with my daughter

If I had a water fight with my daughter

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

"The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Surely they were following procedure? Someone made a report they attended, yes maybe a bit ott but if a report has been made until they can prove it's not real they have to consider the safety that a potential gun was pointed at a girl and took measures to prevent someone potentially getting harmed.

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

Got to say if I was a police officer attending a potential fire arm incident and a gun was pointed at a child, I know I'd probably act defensively too. They have split seconds to make a decision, and it would haunt me for the rest of my life if a child was shot because I took too long to respond to the situation.

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs "

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

They called his mum aggressive but it was her intervention that got him ‘de arrested’. The trauma from incidents like this, that impacts Black CHILDREN more than anyone else when we have mental health services that aren’t trained to deal with racial trauma is ridiculous. Black boys and girls aren’t ever just children. Part of the racism that we face is that we are men and women from the moment we’re walking.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Got to say if I was a police officer attending a potential fire arm incident and a gun was pointed at a child, I know I'd probably act defensively too. They have split seconds to make a decision, and it would haunt me for the rest of my life if a child was shot because I took too long to respond to the situation.

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child. "

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago.

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By *ruceyyMan over a year ago

London

I'm gonna go with yes depending on where you live. Sorry dude.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

To play devil's advocate here.

What if there had been a real gun and a shooting I know this is hypothetical but someone had been injured or worse and the police not reacted in the first place, would you also be claiming the same?

Im not saying their reaction was appropriate btw.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago. "

If black males weren't vastly over-represented in violent crime these things wouldn't happen.

Every race case reported by the media turns out to be a pack of lies and distortion.

Now take your politics somewhere else.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

He obviously wasn't sure it was a "blue water pistol" or he wouldn't have called in for a fire arms response.

Mrs

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child. "

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago. "

This is obviously a sensitive subject, and the fact is that we don't know everything about what happened, just what's been reported in the press......

Air pistols and BB guns that fire steel balls are all brightly coloured so they aren't mistaken as replica firearms. They can be modified to increase their power enough to push a steel pellet through a breeze block from 10 ft away. It's why the emergency services are twined to treat all items that look like firearms, as firearms until proven otherwise.

There might be all sorts of other issues in play, but that aspect is totally 1/0.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So you’d rather they didn’t investigate potential firearms offences?

What that’s saying is a potential real firearm could be painted to look harmless, and you won’t get stopped because it’s ’clearly A toy’

An unlikely scenario, yes. But we live in a fucked up world where I guess anything is possible.

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By *wisted999Man over a year ago

North Bucks

Happened in town last week to two white teens with orange BB guns.

Gone are the days where you could dress up like the A team and play war in the street.

Sign of the violent times.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I'm gonna go with yes depending on where you live. Sorry dude. "

It’s shit man. It’s so fucking shit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So you’d rather they didn’t investigate potential firearms offences?

What that’s saying is a potential real firearm could be painted to look harmless, and you won’t get stopped because it’s ’clearly A toy’

An unlikely scenario, yes. But we live in a fucked up world where I guess anything is possible. "

Let’s talk about what happened here rather than talking about things that didn’t.

‘The boy had been playing near his home with a blue plastic water pistol with his sister, who had a pink one.’ Officer called that in for armed police. Armed police arrested him. Pointed guns at him. He was 13. I don’t think people grasp how young 13 is.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs "

But it was a blue and pink water gun.

so let’s focus on what actually happened

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago.

If black males weren't vastly over-represented in violent crime these things wouldn't happen.

Every race case reported by the media turns out to be a pack of lies and distortion.

Now take your politics somewhere else. "

They’re children.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs

But it was a blue and pink water gun.

so let’s focus on what actually happened"

And until they got close enough to identify it wasn't dangerous they don't know that, guns these days aren't all black/silver.

They responded to a potential fire arms incident with a person potentially in danger, they did the right thing.

I'm sorry I don't agree with you here pickles.

They would have responsibility to any potential fire arms call regardless of ethnicity & if they didn't respond at all then that's an issue.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs

But it was a blue and pink water gun.

so let’s focus on what actually happened

And until they got close enough to identify it wasn't dangerous they don't know that, guns these days aren't all black/silver.

They responded to a potential fire arms incident with a person potentially in danger, they did the right thing.

I'm sorry I don't agree with you here pickles.

They would have responsibility to any potential fire arms call regardless of ethnicity & if they didn't respond at all then that's an issue.

Mrs "

Why are they called? Why is the officer making that call about a 13 year old without even an inkling that they’re having a water fight. 30 seconds it takes to recognise that kids are playing with water and not bullets. Literally 30 seconds. Like I said. Black kids don’t get to be kids. And if you know, you know.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Would you call the police if you saw these kids playing? And at what point would you stand there and realise that you’ve made a mistake and it’s kids playing before the armed police arrive and point guns at a kid?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Side note: calling his mum aggressive? Lol they ain’t even trying

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"Side note: calling his mum aggressive? Lol they ain’t even trying"

If that had been my 13 year old son I would have been aggressive too. Thank god she was

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago. "

I read it as the boy was playing with a blue gun. Didn't say when it became apparent that it was. Members of the public didn't realise it was a toy before phoning the police so I can only presume it's wasn't all that obvious until after the event.

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

"Would you call the police if you saw these kids playing? And at what point would you stand there and realise that you’ve made a mistake and it’s kids playing before the armed police arrive and point guns at a kid?

See I agree with you there, they surely should have realised and phoned them again?

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Side note: calling his mum aggressive? Lol they ain’t even trying

If that had been my 13 year old son I would have been aggressive too. Thank god she was"

Me too! I’d have probably ended up being arrested!

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

What's going on here is a deep rooted agenda by the super elite and rich to constantly create division in society, the endless reinforcement of negative stereotypes by reporting of negative news stories to amplify division we are force fed negativity in this case Met police bad and racist, on another day on another news feed it may be black youths all carry weapons blah blah blah.

Or all teen-agers carry knifes.

All football fans are racist thug's.

I could go on and on listing negative stereotypes....

Fact is we live in a society where more people take notice of the phone in their hands than what's actually happening around us.

Wouldn't it be nice to read some positive news for a change?

Read stories about what the met are actually doing right, about how black filmmakers are trying to actively work to dispell the stereotypical image of black people in Hollywood .

That not every Muslim is a suicide bomber.

But no we have been brainwashed to only respond to negativity, I can't imagine what it's like to be a black person and the racism they face on a daily basis all I can say from my point of view to try and install some hope is that not every white person is racist, many people are just trying to survive and live same as anyone else some have it harder some have it easy.

Every time negativity is reported it just adds to the issue,but I understand that it must be frustrating and disappointing sometimes change can only happen through action.

But positive action

To quote rev Jesse Jackson

"Never look down on anyone unless you are helping him up "

Peace and love x

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By *cottish guy 555Man over a year ago

London

If they were close enough to arrest him then they were close enough to know it was a water pistol.

Take the kid's ethnicity out of the equation and see it for the shocking incident it was. Any kid would be shit scared being approached and ordered about by people with machine guns.

This is fucking appalling and an awful overreaction that could have gone very wrong very quickly.

No matter what you believe, statistically black kids are more likely to have negative interactions with the police. I've seen it first hand growing up and experienced the bias. Friends treated differently to myself just because of their skin colour in our interactions with the cops.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs

But it was a blue and pink water gun.

so let’s focus on what actually happened

And until they got close enough to identify it wasn't dangerous they don't know that, guns these days aren't all black/silver.

They responded to a potential fire arms incident with a person potentially in danger, they did the right thing.

I'm sorry I don't agree with you here pickles.

They would have responsibility to any potential fire arms call regardless of ethnicity & if they didn't respond at all then that's an issue.

Mrs

You have made your mind up, the officer obviously wouldn't have called if he knew it was a water pistol would be, he'd look a twat to start with.

I've nothing more to add you have your mind made up.

Police responded to a fire arms report they most certainly should attend.

Mrs

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men. "

People are able to disagree with you, without being racist.

Yes I'd be heartbroken if this happened to my son who is the same age. But I also understand that human error occurs.

I'm not a fan of toy guns in any shape or form. Being a victim of gun crime kinda does that to someone. And just so you know the perpetrators were white in both instances. So if anything my bias (I'm aware of it and I'm working on it) is towards white males.

Sweeping generalisations never helped either side. If anything it makes things worse.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men. "

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men. "

And this..... What's the point even replying it's only a valid reply if we agree with you.

Otherwise what are we all racist?!

Ridiculous.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

People are able to disagree with you, without being racist.

Yes I'd be heartbroken if this happened to my son who is the same age. But I also understand that human error occurs.

Sweeping generalisations never helped either side. If anything it makes things worse.

I’ve not called you or anyone in this thread a racist

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By *tsJustKateWoman over a year ago

London

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

No, it's protecting the public from potential harm. The pistol could easily have been filled with another substance that could cause harm!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

And this..... What's the point even replying it's only a valid reply if we agree with you.

Otherwise what are we all racist?!

Ridiculous.

Mrs "

Then don’t reply. You have your opinion. We disagree. That’s it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything."

Lol the making Black children adults sooner than they are is something that really gets me. The thought of having a son being treated and handled like a criminal man makes me Vom a bit.

I do know that the idea that Black children are scary to white adults is something that has consistently ended up in Black people being brutalised and murdered.

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By *ansoffateMan over a year ago

Sagittarius A

It legitimises the myth, when it is not acknowledged and outed. It is excused: well statistically... No that doesn't make this shit right at all.

But it's like trying to cover a wall with snowballs. Trying to get people to acknowledge their implicit bias.

I'll answer you straight. Is it racism - yes

Well we thought that... Well you thought wrong. Why did you get it wrong? You just traumatised a fucking kid with a water pistol.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

And this..... What's the point even replying it's only a valid reply if we agree with you.

Otherwise what are we all racist?!

Ridiculous.

Mrs

Then don’t reply. You have your opinion. We disagree. That’s it?"

Is this not what forums are for, to give an opinion?

You asked a question I answered.

Have a lovely rest of the day.

Mrs

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Lol the making Black children adults sooner than they are is something that really gets me. The thought of having a son being treated and handled like a criminal man makes me Vom a bit.

I do know that the idea that Black children are scary to white adults is something that has consistently ended up in Black people being brutalised and murdered. "

I'm so angry on your behalf, that people would rather continue with the system as it is because it's not them and theirs who are being brutalised. This is justified because someone's got to suffer for my sense of security.

If the shoe was on the other foot white people would have the biggest fucking shit fit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It legitimises the myth, when it is not acknowledged and outed. It is excused: well statistically... No that doesn't make this shit right at all.

But it's like trying to cover a wall with snowballs. Trying to get people to acknowledge their implicit bias.

I'll answer you straight. Is it racism - yes

Well we thought that... Well you thought wrong. Why did you get it wrong? You just traumatised a fucking kid with a water pistol."

For me it’s the trauma inflicted on a kid being a kid. Playing with his sister near his house. He recalls seeing the red lasers pointing at him. And then there’s the layer of, this always happens to us. And our children. All my life I’ve had to consider how my mere existence makes others feel safe/unsafe. And my interactions with the police from when I was a teenager haven’t changed that. Only solidified what this boy found out so soon. That he’s a threat. His attempt to experience childhood result in trauma.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

And this..... What's the point even replying it's only a valid reply if we agree with you.

Otherwise what are we all racist?!

Ridiculous.

Mrs

Then don’t reply. You have your opinion. We disagree. That’s it?

Is this not what forums are for, to give an opinion?

You asked a question I answered.

Have a lovely rest of the day.

Mrs"

You’re welcome to reply though. I’m not stopping you? Just because we disagree doesn’t mean you can’t have your opinion? Or post it? I’m confused where I’ve implied you can’t?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It legitimises the myth, when it is not acknowledged and outed. It is excused: well statistically... No that doesn't make this shit right at all.

But it's like trying to cover a wall with snowballs. Trying to get people to acknowledge their implicit bias.

I'll answer you straight. Is it racism - yes

Well we thought that... Well you thought wrong. Why did you get it wrong? You just traumatised a fucking kid with a water pistol.

Rather than dealing with their own shit, people (mostly adults) would rather inflict it upon Black children.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

And this..... What's the point even replying it's only a valid reply if we agree with you.

Otherwise what are we all racist?!

Ridiculous.

Mrs

Then don’t reply. You have your opinion. We disagree. That’s it?

Is this not what forums are for, to give an opinion?

You asked a question I answered.

Have a lovely rest of the day.

Mrs

You’re welcome to reply though. I’m not stopping you? Just because we disagree doesn’t mean you can’t have your opinion? Or post it? I’m confused where I’ve implied you can’t?

Maybe it's my misunderstanding in your replies, it's tricky to read tone via text (well it is for me anyway)

Mrs

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By *ansoffateMan over a year ago

Sagittarius A

It's hard for me to stay civil on this issue pickle. I admire you for it.

It's still too raw for me seeing the impact it's had on my daughters.

Sweep that shit under the carpet and carry on. Nothing to see here folks. Watch TV.

Oh look a report about a stabbing it's a black kid - probably in a gang and a drug dealer- no respect for the law.

Says here he was on his way home from work and... That's nice dear look there's a show where celebrities dress as bears and sing songs - let's get a pizza.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

And this..... What's the point even replying it's only a valid reply if we agree with you.

Otherwise what are we all racist?!

Ridiculous.

Mrs

Then don’t reply. You have your opinion. We disagree. That’s it?

Is this not what forums are for, to give an opinion?

You asked a question I answered.

Have a lovely rest of the day.

Mrs

You’re welcome to reply though. I’m not stopping you? Just because we disagree doesn’t mean you can’t have your opinion? Or post it? I’m confused where I’ve implied you can’t?

Maybe it's my misunderstanding in your replies, it's tricky to read tone via text (well it is for me anyway)

Mrs "

I welcome opinions. And I’ll engage with sine and I won’t engage with others. And I’m sure others will come along and engage. I hope so anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It's hard for me to stay civil on this issue pickle. I admire you for it.

It's still too raw for me seeing the impact it's had on my daughters.

Sweep that shit under the carpet and carry on. Nothing to see here folks. Watch TV.

Oh look a report about a stabbing it's a black kid - probably in a gang and a drug dealer- no respect for the law.

Says here he was on his way home from work and... That's nice dear look there's a show where celebrities dress as bears and sing songs - let's get a pizza."

Hans

You really get it man. Thank you

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It's hard for me to stay civil on this issue pickle. I admire you for it.

It's still too raw for me seeing the impact it's had on my daughters.

Sweep that shit under the carpet and carry on. Nothing to see here folks. Watch TV.

Oh look a report about a stabbing it's a black kid - probably in a gang and a drug dealer- no respect for the law.

Says here he was on his way home from work and... That's nice dear look there's a show where celebrities dress as bears and sing songs - let's get a pizza."

I'm sorry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There's enough evidence already that the Met is institutionally racist, sadly.

Would the boy have been reported if he wasn't black? Probably not.

I think the police response would have been the same because they will react to what they believe the threat to be. The response once they realised it was a 13yo with a water pistol and the number of times they were asked to investigate - yes, racist.

I'm sorry, Pickle.

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By *imjohnCouple over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

It's not a black or white thing it's us living in a dangerous world, when I lived in West Ham years ago there would be kids with real guns shooting each other and 30 years later its even worse.

Kim was doing a course in London and we were staying in Euston and you had black people shooting other black people at a funeral, I'm not saying white people don't shoot each other just that police have an hard job distinguishing what weapons are real.

Guns knives stun guns crossbows pepper spray are popular among teenagers and older gangs so where do the police draw the line in enforcement to stop attempted crimes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

White kids playing with water pistols?

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By *thfloorCouple over a year ago

Hove

"I do know that the idea that Black children are scary to white adults is something that has consistently ended up in Black people being brutalised and murdered. "

Sadly the truth! Starting with the person(s) who called it in - watch barely pubescent children play but see potential murder, how does that happen? Blinded by racial bias maybe? I don't understand how people can deny it.

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By *ilthycoupleabzCouple over a year ago

Aberdeen

"Side note: calling his mum aggressive? Lol they ain’t even trying

If that had been my 13 year old son I would have been aggressive too. Thank god she was"

I have to agree here. I have a 13yr old son. He is bigger than me already but he is a child still. A kid! Just a young kid.

If he had guns pointed at him and police were trying to arrest him for PLAYING, I would no doubt be arrested myself for the way I would react.

MrsAbz

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By *ansoffateMan over a year ago

Sagittarius A

"It's hard for me to stay civil on this issue pickle. I admire you for it.

It's still too raw for me seeing the impact it's had on my daughters.

Sweep that shit under the carpet and carry on. Nothing to see here folks. Watch TV.

Oh look a report about a stabbing it's a black kid - probably in a gang and a drug dealer- no respect for the law.

Says here he was on his way home from work and... That's nice dear look there's a show where celebrities dress as bears and sing songs - let's get a pizza.

Hans

You really get it man. Thank you"

Pickle, thank you. My daughters need people like you out there.

I used to deliver E&D training, not the corporate tick box shit. The personal development stuff.

I wish I could do more, I'm still a little too broken. I'm working on it.

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By *ilthycoupleabzCouple over a year ago

Aberdeen

"It's not a black or white thing it's us living in a dangerous world, when I lived in West Ham years ago there would be kids with real guns shooting each other and 30 years later its even worse.

Guns knives stun guns crossbows pepper spray are popular among teenagers and older gangs so where do the police draw the line in enforcement to stop attempted crimes."

I think the point is though if it was white kids playing with colourful water pistols, would anyone have reported it? Would they have even noticed?

Maybe, I am not seeing the full picture here? To me it seems simple that black kids = must be doing something bad.

That is the problem here. Someone please correct me if I am wrong in my perception

MrsAbz

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By *hromosexualsCouple over a year ago

Near Abercynon

It could well be racism, but a quick search on the BBC news website shows that it's not the first time police have responded to calls which turn out to be children with "toy guns"...

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

No.

Maybe we would rather police don't respond when someone reports seeing guns.? The wild west.

But more agenda led click bait. Don't get sucked into it.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

Agenda led click bait.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

No.

Maybe we would rather police don't respond when someone reports seeing guns.? The wild west.

But more agenda led click bait. Don't get sucked into it. "

Are you against the agenda of children not being brutalised?

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything."

Actually though you jest, my Dad was that white man you described albeit he was in his 30's. Yeah having loaded guns pointed at you is fucking terrifying. What did the police do confiscate his guns for a while. Make jokes all you like gun crime is not funny regardless of who the culprit is.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Maybe the point I'm making is that Black people are made out to be responsible disproportionately to white people in public discourse, and that's fucking ridiculous, and we as white people should stop allowing ourselves to be infantalised and given cookies for not being total shitstains because it's vaguely convenient (and we don't think that the power will ever be turned against us)?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs

But it was a blue and pink water gun.

so let’s focus on what actually happened"

A blue and pink water gun that is modelled on the Glock 17 which is the most commonly carried pistol by global law enforcement agencies including the UK. It’s colour is irrelevant as they can actually be purchased in any colour you like, although not legally in the UK.

So putting aside your ignorance about firearms you can easily find that gangs frequently use teenagers to do their dirty work, providing the guns to do so.

The youngest assailant I ever dealt with, who beat an elderly woman half to death with an iron bar, was eleven. So a teenager pulling a trigger with no idea of the consequences, is nothing.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Don't carry a gun... Don't get knicked.?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Don't carry a gun... Don't get knicked.?"

Don't play with a toy with your siblings if you don't want to be brutalised by the police.

Is that the message you're ok with sending to children? Or only black children?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If I was a dr*g dealer carrying a real weapon, I would paint it blue or pink so a police officer bullied or fooled into thinking it was a toy wouldn't stand a chance in those few seconds of indecision before they took action.

Bess

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"If I was a dr*g dealer carrying a real weapon, I would paint it blue or pink so a police officer bullied or fooled into thinking it was a toy wouldn't stand a chance in those few seconds of indecision before they took action.

Bess"

Maybe the police should exercise some personal responsibility rather than the effects of their mistakes being thrust onto children.

Funny how personal responsibility only goes one way.

That boy. Was black. In public. With something that looks like something that can't be obtained legally in this country.

What are the poor innocent powerless powicepoos to do? Won't somebody not think of the children?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bess"

And this is exactly what they do. It started in the US (of course), but criminals often paint their guns to resemble what are perceived as toy colours so they can fling it and claim it was a toy or to make responding police hesitate....so they can get the first shot in.

It's a shitty world we are now living in.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Bess

It's a shitty world we are now living in."

Yup. A shitty world where otherwise good people justify traumatising children.

Someone up thread mentioned the wild west.

If the media depictions are correct (which I'm sure they are not), I'd actually prefer it. At least there was some semblance of honour and decency, rather than cowering to and justifying power.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bess

Maybe the police should exercise some personal responsibility rather than the effects of their mistakes being thrust onto children.

Funny how personal responsibility only goes one way.

That boy. Was black. In public. With something that looks like something that can't be obtained legally in this country.

What are the poor innocent powerless powicepoos to do? Won't somebody not think of the children?"

The police should do their job and protect the public, which they did in this case. Police officers can be parents too.

Bess

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

No, it's protecting the public from potential harm. The pistol could easily have been filled with another substance that could cause harm!"

By that logic, armed police should be called to every single child who is playing with a water pistol as it "could easily have been filled with another substance that could cause harm". They should be called for every child that is playing with a plastic toy sword because "it could easily have been modified to cause harm". They should be called for every child that is playing with a football because "it could easily have been modified into a bomb".

The fact here is that the child committed the crime of "being black and playing in an area with white people present" and was automatically assumed to be a probable danger to the white people.

Would this have happened with a white child playing in an area with black people present? With the police being called by a black person? Would armed police come to point guns at a white child? Almost certainly not. In fact the black person making the complaint would probably be charged with wasting police time.

Yes this incident was racism, institutionalised racism going all the way from the person that reported the incident through to the members of the firearms squad that assaulted a child.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bess

It's a shitty world we are now living in."

Sadly, some people are too thick to realise just how shitty some people can be. Many of these people take illegal or prescription dr*gs which can confuse their powers of rationalisation.

Bess

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Bess

Maybe the police should exercise some personal responsibility rather than the effects of their mistakes being thrust onto children.

Funny how personal responsibility only goes one way.

That boy. Was black. In public. With something that looks like something that can't be obtained legally in this country.

What are the poor innocent powerless powicepoos to do? Won't somebody not think of the children?

The police should do their job and protect the public, which they did in this case. Police officers can be parents too.

Bess"

Then maybe they should have had some empathy for the child they traumatised and used their adult resources rather than reacting poorly.

They have the power in the situation.

How many children is it worth traumatising to keep people safe?

How many white children is it worth traumatising to keep people safe?

Are people safe if children are at risk of being traumatised?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bess

Maybe the police should exercise some personal responsibility rather than the effects of their mistakes being thrust onto children.

Funny how personal responsibility only goes one way.

That boy. Was black. In public. With something that looks like something that can't be obtained legally in this country.

What are the poor innocent powerless powicepoos to do? Won't somebody not think of the children?

The police should do their job and protect the public, which they did in this case. Police officers can be parents too.

Bess

Then maybe they should have had some empathy for the child they traumatised and used their adult resources rather than reacting poorly.

They have the power in the situation.

How many children is it worth traumatising to keep people safe?

How many white children is it worth traumatising to keep people safe?

Are people safe if children are at risk of being traumatised?

Ah, I can see you're trying the old race-baiting tactics again. I'll leave you to it.

Bess

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Bess

Maybe the police should exercise some personal responsibility rather than the effects of their mistakes being thrust onto children.

Funny how personal responsibility only goes one way.

That boy. Was black. In public. With something that looks like something that can't be obtained legally in this country.

What are the poor innocent powerless powicepoos to do? Won't somebody not think of the children?

The police should do their job and protect the public, which they did in this case. Police officers can be parents too.

Bess

Then maybe they should have had some empathy for the child they traumatised and used their adult resources rather than reacting poorly.

They have the power in the situation.

How many children is it worth traumatising to keep people safe?

How many white children is it worth traumatising to keep people safe?

Are people safe if children are at risk of being traumatised?

Ah, I can see you're trying the old race-baiting tactics again. I'll leave you to it.

Bess"

In a thread that's explicitly about race. Where it's framed like that from the start, because it's a known phenomenon.

Maybe when it happens to more white children, something will be done about abuses of power. It seems in this country we've learned nothing and are proud of it.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Don't carry a gun... Don't get knicked.?

Don't play with a toy with your siblings if you don't want to be brutalised by the police.

Is that the message you're ok with sending to children? Or only black children?"

Where do you get only black children from? I didn't say anything about colour. You did.

What nutter of any colour plays with guns with their kids?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Bess"

If you were a drug dealer blah blah blah. You don’t look 13. You don’t look like a child. So I don’t really care for your imaginary scenario

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Bess

It's a shitty world we are now living in.

Sadly, some people are too thick to realise just how shitty some people can be. Many of these people take illegal or prescription dr*gs which can confuse their powers of rationalisation.

Bess"

What on earth are you talking about? I hope you’re not suggesting people on this thread are using dr*gs which is confusing their ability to rationalise?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bess

It's a shitty world we are now living in.

Sadly, some people are too thick to realise just how shitty some people can be. Many of these people take illegal or prescription dr*gs which can confuse their powers of rationalisation.

Bess

What on earth are you talking about? I hope you’re not suggesting people on this thread are using dr*gs which is confusing their ability to rationalise? "

Steve, be aware a lot of people/some will try to defend the indefensible because they know and they’re scared the ‘powers that be’ can change the narrative on a whim and it could be a whole group of other people at the authorities mercy

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By * and R cple4Couple over a year ago

swansea

I know as a mother to two young men if that had happened to one of mine at 13 then I would be a lot more than aggressive..

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By *hocolate37Man over a year ago

Heathrow

[Removed by poster at 20/10/23 18:05:00]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 20/10/23 18:05:00]"

I saw this.

that was real ish. You’re so so so so right.

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By *hocolate37Man over a year ago

Heathrow

Frankly, Steve, I don't know why you bothered - I read this thread, and it played out exactly as I thought it would...deflect, deflect, turn it on the "perpetrator", justify it by "well, the black crime rate", "it could have been a real gun because young black boys", blah blah blah, rinse and repeat. And this is "tolerance"??

The bottom line is, the police were called on a 13 year-old boy with a blue water pistol, and his younger sister who had a pink water pistol...didn't bother to check further to see what if anything was happening, didn't stop to watch them having a water fight. He was rammed off his bike by armed police, knocked to the ground and officers pointed their submachine guns at him and he was handcuffed. He deserved that no more than I did being arrested at 12 for "stealing" my mum's coat, which she'd sent me to collect from a dry cleaners. But yeah, just add "playing while black" to the list...and before anyone wants to come at me with the usual "defending the indefensible" BS, you could save your breath, and maybe try and find somewhere inside yourselves some empathy for the situation that boy found himself in, through no fault of his own.

But you won't.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Frankly, Steve, I don't know why you bothered - I read this thread, and it played out exactly as I thought it would...deflect, deflect, turn it on the "perpetrator", justify it by "well, the black crime rate", "it could have been a real gun because young black boys", blah blah blah, rinse and repeat. And this is "tolerance"??

But you won't."

that was real shit man. Thank you for speaking on the things.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But you won't."

I always hope that someone reads the thread and it makes them pause. Steve (or anyone who puts their head above the parapet) knows for sure that some people will NEVER shift their views. But others just might.

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By *ou only live onceMan over a year ago

London

But you won't."

Well said! I'm obviously not black, but what I struggle with most on threads like these is people's inability to see things from a a different perspective, wilfully or not, or to understand why that perspective may be different to theirs, shaped through the years.

I guess they don't need to, safe in the knowledge they and their children are highly unlikely ever to face the same treatment, even in identical situations. But they'll also say there's no such thing as white privilege.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

Depends on your race, apparently.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

Depends on your race, apparently. "

The whole thing is completely mind boggling. I work in a public facing job and occasionally you just have to say, we fucked up here.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child. "

Wha!? A pink gun?! Stop trying to defend these wankers. They were behaving badly.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

Hang on. There was a pink one too.

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By *oxy jWoman over a year ago

somerset

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

your missing the point it was reported to the police that this boy was carrying a gun they had to follow procedures of what was reported .... they were doing their job if anyone is to blame its the gang culture that puts guns into young hands that where the problem lays and where innocents get mixed up ..

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Would armed police come and arrest me?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/19/met-rammed-boy-13-playing-with-water-pistol-off-bike-and-pointed-guns-at-him

What’s going on here guys? Is it racism?

Anyway, Pickleman, this is a site that worships BBC, without irony, so it is unlikely you will get the response you are looking for. Although, I feel obliged to say, I am partial to some BBC!

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs "

Really?!

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

But you won't.

But racist police are a real thing. These people have a few weeks training and are sent out into the world to pretend they are impartial defenders of laws they barely understand...WTF!?

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

No. You are missing the point. We have very few gun crimes in this country. And certainly even fewer involving children. I would want my police force to get this. Oh, and the brightly coloured plastic would have been a dead give away once they were on the scene. Those men (and I bet they were men) should be ashamed of themselves.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Just a thought. And hopefully taken in the spirit intended. If they did wrong then let them be punished / retrained or whatever needs to happen. But... Is it possible that children can play a waterfight without replica or anything looking like a gun and then avoid any unnecessary aggro? I mean would whatever happened have happened if they were pointing those big yellow super soakers like clangers? Not blaming just saying.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Don't carry a gun... Don't get knicked.?

Don't play with a toy with your siblings if you don't want to be brutalised by the police.

Is that the message you're ok with sending to children? Or only black children?

Where do you get only black children from? I didn't say anything about colour. You did.

What nutter of any colour plays with guns with their kids? "

Water pistols?

I don't know what kind of childhood you had, but me and every nutter and otherwise with children I knew.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

Out of interest. What happened when they realised they were not guns?

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

""The Met said it was called to a report of a gun in the street and was obliged under policy to treat all firearms as dangerous until proven otherwise."

Im unsure how it's race related they responded to a report of a minor with a firearm.

Mrs

An officer saw a 13 year old playing with a BLUE water pistol and called for armed police?

Out of interest. What happened when they realised they were not guns? "

They were handcuffed and dragged away, of course.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Just a thought. And hopefully taken in the spirit intended. If they did wrong then let them be punished / retrained or whatever needs to happen. But... Is it possible that children can play a waterfight without replica or anything looking like a gun and then avoid any unnecessary aggro? I mean would whatever happened have happened if they were pointing those big yellow super soakers like clangers? Not blaming just saying. "

Sorry, you're right. Those kids and their fucking brightly coloured super soakers that look nothing like any weapon that anyone has ever seen. They deserve what they have coming. Nah. Those wankers need to be sacked. They can not be trusted to make safe decisions around the use of firearms. They were millimetres away from shooting those kids. It is not forgivable.

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By *hocolate37Man over a year ago

Heathrow

I'm sorry, but, seriously??

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Quite. I can't even.

How dare those children play. The police must have never seen anything so awful. Poor poor police

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By *annibal_LickedherMan over a year ago

The Side of the Mersey

Playing devils advocate here. There is an entire industry dedicated to customising real fire arms to look like toys. Not sure what the reasoning is behind it.

Google Block 17 to see a Lego style, REAL Glock 17 pistol.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

It's good to be passionate. It's not good to be offensive.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It's good to be passionate. It's not good to be offensive. "

You called people nutters for playing with water pistols as children. I don't think you can talk.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

As a nipper we had those stupid little water pistols the plastic see thru one's that had three squirts if you was lucky.

Favourite was an old washing up liquid bottle.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"As a nipper we had those stupid little water pistols the plastic see thru one's that had three squirts if you was lucky.

Favourite was an old washing up liquid bottle."

When I was at school some of the leavers, on their last day, filled bigger ones with piss and went after the teachers

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By *uke_silverMan over a year ago

London

I read the article on BBC and although I'm not sure if race was a prominent factor (although I expect it's highly likely the officers had some bias), there were other details which were appalling (even if we don't take the racism into account):

1. The police response was too extreme, surely they could've tried talking before ramming him off a bike and pointing guns at him

2. The "blue and white" and "pink and white" guns were "unmistakably toys", so at least take a closer look before acting.

3. The whole police investigating their own misconduct is just wrong - we definitely need public accountability in this case (and for all cases honestly).

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Criminals have spray can painted toy guns black and real firearms pink to look like toys.You have no idea what you are confronting by how it looks.When kids as young as ten have been found with firearms,an incident involving a child is not automatically a mistake or false alarm.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Playing devils advocate here. There is an entire industry dedicated to customising real fire arms to look like toys. Not sure what the reasoning is behind it.

Google Block 17 to see a Lego style, REAL Glock 17 pistol. "

Devil's advocate? To what end? Why? This just needs straight forward condemnation. There is no excuse or the weird double down stuff either.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Criminals have spray can painted toy guns black and real firearms pink to look like toys.You have no idea what you are confronting by how it looks.When kids as young as ten have been found with firearms,an incident involving a child is not automatically a mistake or false alarm."

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"Playing devils advocate here. There is an entire industry dedicated to customising real fire arms to look like toys. Not sure what the reasoning is behind it.

Google Block 17 to see a Lego style, REAL Glock 17 pistol. "

Impressive! And, your point is? That brightly coloured water pistols can be threatening to highly trained police officers?

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Don't carry a gun... Don't get knicked.?

Don't play with a toy with your siblings if you don't want to be brutalised by the police.

Is that the message you're ok with sending to children? Or only black children?

Where do you get only black children from? I didn't say anything about colour. You did.

What nutter of any colour plays with guns with their kids?

Water pistols?

I don't know what kind of childhood you had, but me and every nutter and otherwise with children I knew.

My dad was a career crim. He used to

deal in firearms so we always had a few real guns to play with lying around the house. One of my earliest memories is playing with dad's friends pistol - I have since found out that he always carried a Walther PPK with him.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html"

Yeah. It's a fantasy fear mongering bit of fluff with lots of suspected crimes. Which 10 year old was found with a firearm. It doesn't say. We have relatively few wild firearms in this country. I suspect a lot of these kids had waterpistols.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But it’s good to know how people feel about 13 year old Black men.

Naturally

Black children are big scary adults who make the Big Wesponsible Powice (who stand between us and civilisation collapsing) cower in their big manly boots.

White people didn't know what they were doing, were so young (into their 40s) and/ or were mentally ill and therefore are never responsible for anything.

Yes, the point I'm making is that crime is hilarious. So funny.

Don't carry a gun... Don't get knicked.?

Don't play with a toy with your siblings if you don't want to be brutalised by the police.

Is that the message you're ok with sending to children? Or only black children?

Where do you get only black children from? I didn't say anything about colour. You did.

What nutter of any colour plays with guns with their kids?

Water pistols?

I don't know what kind of childhood you had, but me and every nutter and otherwise with children I knew.

My dad was a career crim. He used to

Oh I don't doubt it happened occasionally, but the equivocation between "water pistol" and "gun" is absurd in context. It's trying to make out that this child did something wrong by playing with a toy.

If this had been a well off white family, it would never had happened, and if it did, some high up politician or royal would have already handed the family the police officer's testicles.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"your missing the point it was reported to the police that this boy was carrying a gun they had to follow procedures of what was reported .... they were doing their job if anyone is to blame its the gang culture that puts guns into young hands that where the problem lays and where innocents get mixed up .."

‘He was having a water fight with his younger sibling when an ON PATROL OFFICER reported a potential firearms incident.’

That’s the first thing before the armed officers even arrive. When they arrive, their handling is questionable if you’re extremely generous to them. Which most people on fab are I think. Not a bad thing just an observation.

(https://news.sky.com/story/amp/boy-13-surrounded-by-armed-police-in-hackney-after-water-pistol-mistaken-for-real-gun-12987185)

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

There are more firearms(illegal,ie prohibited or without licence) in this country and firearms incidents than before the knee jerk reaction to Dunblane.The idea "we have relatively few wild firearms" is laughable.

The ten year old in question was protected by the "legal reasons"legislation,which is why the media have been very vague on details.

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

The ten year old in question was protected by the "legal reasons"legislation,which is why the media have been very vague on details."

Okay

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By *orthwestbikerxxMan over a year ago

lancs

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago. "

That's why we are fortunate don't live in USA shot 1st policy .

Happened to us over 40 years ago

Worked at a garage in a mainly black area And my work friend had a decommissioned gun ..

Our apprentice young black guy was messing about with it

Someone must have reported it

Armed police turned up Wasn't a pleasant experience But we all understood why and none of us was treated any different

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

It's good that you have that knowledge. I don't know if we have few wild firearms whatever that may be. However in my time it certainly seems like gun crimes have increased over the last 40 years which is not a good thing. As for the "innocence of cap guns and water pistols" of course. In my opinion I'd never give a kid any kind of gun as a toy. In fairness not because I'd imagine plod would get involved but more because I am simply anti gun... Just see no need for it as there are more than enough other toys and didnt want my kids pointing things at people learning to shoot for fun.

All of that said. If the police have done wrong then there should be consequences.out of interest were any of the police who called it in or responded of colour?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

[Removed by poster at 21/10/23 07:13:20]

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago. "

Nor is the first paragraph here a fact. It's driven by emotion and a hugely biased response

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

[Removed by poster at 21/10/23 07:13:32]

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

All of that said. If the police have done wrong then there should be consequences.out of interest were any of the police who called it in or responded of colour? "

I have to ask? Why?

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

None of the suspects/offenders are named. To my knowledge we still thankfully don't name names. Choosing to ignore facts because they don't suit doesn't mean they aren't facts though.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Which 10 year old was found with a firearm? Where? When?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-guns-as-young-as-10-among-1-500-child-arrests-for-firearm-offences-in-three-years-a6957361.html

All of that said. If the police have done wrong then there should be consequences.out of interest were any of the police who called it in or responded of colour?

I have to ask? Why?"

Because it has been made about race by some people. If race is important for some participants it's important for all surely?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If they were close enough to arrest him then they were close enough to know it was a water pistol.

Take the kid's ethnicity out of the equation and see it for the shocking incident it was. Any kid would be shit scared being approached and ordered about by people with machine guns.

This is fucking appalling and an awful overreaction that could have gone very wrong very quickly.

"
I was reading this thread and feeling a bit......

Thank you for saying this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s always about racism otherwise they wouldn’t have anything to moan about

3d printed guys can be make to look just like toy guns. The police handle reports of a gun seriously until they know it’s not a gun

The police can’t win. They either don’t do enough, do too much, and god forbid they do anything to a person that isn’t white, that’s racist.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But you won't."

Thank you

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By *unchalMan over a year ago

Dartford

"It’s always about racism otherwise they wouldn’t have anything to moan about

3d printed guys can be make to look just like toy guns. The police handle reports of a gun seriously until they know it’s not a gun

The police can’t win. They either don’t do enough, do too much, and god forbid they do anything to a person that isn’t white, that’s racist. "

I'm not sure doing anything to a person who isn't white is the issue. The fact is they do some things to people who aren't white a lot more than they do to people who are white.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For anyone confused about why the police would react to a brightly coloured supersoaker

https://cdn.manomano.com/images/images_products/29865617/L/103564076_2.jpg

This was the water pistol, modelled after a glock.

Definitely not the type of water pistol I had as a kid.

There’s a few people to blame here

1. The company making kids toys that look like real guns

2. The parents who got them these guns, then allowed them to play out in the street with them.

3. Gang culture that has realised you can get kids to carry your weapons/guns, which forces police to react to kids more harshly

Some of the replies on this thread show an unwillingness to look at what’s actually happened and instead fall for race bait outrage

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

You know what I'm not going to bother,I just wrote a lengthy post and deleted it because it seems that the mentality is if you don't agree 100% with the OP the insinuation is your racist regardless of what you say.

It's possible to have an opinion without racist.

I'm not going to participate any further and before anyone jump's on me I think the police were justified in attending the incident but their handling was disproportionate and clumsy.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"You know what I'm not going to bother,I just wrote a lengthy post and deleted it because it seems that the mentality is if you don't agree 100% with the OP the insinuation is your racist regardless of what you say.

It's possible to have an opinion without racist.

I'm not going to participate any further and before anyone jump's on me I think the police were justified in attending the incident but their handling was disproportionate and clumsy.

Sorry the firearms unit correct in attending,the officer who called them is almost definitely the cause of the incident.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's possible to have an opinion without racist.

I'm not going to participate any further and before anyone jump's on me I think the police were justified in attending the incident but their handling was disproportionate and clumsy.

Agreed that's why we don't comment on posts like this as it runs the risk of being called something we are not.

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By *annibal_LickedherMan over a year ago

The Side of the Mersey

"For anyone confused about why the police would react to a brightly coloured supersoaker

https://cdn.manomano.com/images/images_products/29865617/L/103564076_2.jpg

This was the water pistol, modelled after a glock.

Definitely not the type of water pistol I had as a kid.

There’s a few people to blame here

1. The company making kids toys that look like real guns

2. The parents who got them these guns, then allowed them to play out in the street with them.

3. Gang culture that has realised you can get kids to carry your weapons/guns, which forces police to react to kids more harshly

Some of the replies on this thread show an unwillingness to look at what’s actually happened and instead fall for race bait outrage "

Agreed. As well as the companies that make real guns look like kids toys.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I tell you something, re the comments about black men being disproportionately involved in violent crime, if the police went after travellers in the same way they’d soon even the figures up.

Facts are facts. White travellers in this country get away with more crime of any kind than any other racial group.

If you’re black you’re gonna be targeted.

If you’re a low income/social status white person you’ll be targeted slightly less.

If you’re a well off ‘respectable’ middle aged white man you won’t be targeted.

If you’re a white traveller you’ve got carte blanche to do what you like.

Leaving race out of it for a moment, these were children. That 13 year old CHILD will carry that experience to his grave, along with his younger sister and his mother. All three of them will now be so wary of the police. Race relations are shite in ethnic communities with police anyway, things like this do more damage than good.

Any human being can watch two children having a water fight and make the distinction between harmless fun and potential danger. If that police officer really struggled then they shouldn’t be in the job.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

It's possible to have an opinion without racist.

I'm not going to participate any further and before anyone jump's on me I think the police were justified in attending the incident but their handling was disproportionate and clumsy.

Absolutely with you here!

Mrs

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By *ellinever70Woman over a year ago

Ayrshire

Facts are facts. White travellers in this country get away with more crime of any kind than any other racial group.

Where did this fact come from?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I removed my comments for similar reasons.

I read the thread and the 'knowledge' that people are using of the incident is 100% hear say.

What people decide to leave out of their rationalising or reasoning or what they leave out because they simply don't know and what they add in because it seems 'logical' or comment sense simply distorts everything.

No one has a complete picture of what happened.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

*common*

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"I tell you something, re the comments about black men being disproportionately involved in violent crime, if the police went after travellers in the same way they’d soon even the figures up.

Facts are facts. White travellers in this country get away with more crime of any kind than any other racial group.

If you’re black you’re gonna be targeted.

If you’re a low income/social status white person you’ll be targeted slightly less.

If you’re a well off ‘respectable’ middle aged white man you won’t be targeted.

If you’re a white traveller you’ve got carte blanche to do what you like.

In fairness. You didn't see what the police guy saw. So can't really know. I coach teenage kids. There are 13 year olds with stubble and look 18 so again. Very hard to make any assumptions what was "seen". That they will carry it with them for ever and will colour their opinions of police. Absolutely true as evidenced also in this thread.

Not justifying in any way anything police may have done in this incident. But if you're in a "targeted" demographic, the last thing you'd do is give them a toy gun to take on the street?

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

Out of interest, has anyone got any knowledge of the incident that isn't from a newspaper/online outlet?

1- has anyone seen the toy guns that were used?

2- has anyone spoken to anyone involved on the day?

3- was anyone there at the time?

Unless you can truthfully answer yes to any of those questions, you're guessing. And that puts all of us in the same boat.

There are separate issues here which aren't changed by that fact.

1- Are there racist Police officers? Certainly, just like there are racist shop workers, binmen and doctors. Racism is ever present in our society.

2- Are some kids around this age dangerous little shits? Certainly, and I'd suggest you don't really know which ones until you're in a situation with them.

3- Do the police go out of their way to employ a multicultural police service? Certainly, and every year they recruit a higher % of diverse ethnicities than almost any other profession.

4- Does the media deliberately focus on specific elements of an incident in order to sensationalise it and make money. Without a doubt, it's their job now.

Reading through this post has made me really sad. There was an opportunity to have a real conversation about this incident. All that's happened is that people are pushed to one side or the other. The kid was wrong, the police were wrong.

If this is the response to reporting like this, the situations never going to get better.

Racism is utterly pointless. I've always thought that anything that divides people into little groups works against the strength of society. Societies flourish when there is diversity of opinion and experience.

That doesn't mean I'll base an opinion on a story written by someone who wasn't there, and didn't see what happened. More importantly, they don't care what happened, just how it sounds when it's down in print.

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By *abriellajackCouple over a year ago

Newport

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago. "

Maybe you should put yourself in a career where you have to make these sort of spilt second decisions knowing the wrong decision could result in death for you or another. Then you would be fully qualified to comment on it.

You're making your judgement on something from a place of safety and where the full facts have been established. It's not even remotely close to the circumstances officers find themselves in when making their decisions.

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By *abriellajackCouple over a year ago

Newport

"Out of interest, has anyone got any knowledge of the incident that isn't from a newspaper/online outlet?

1- has anyone seen the toy guns that were used?

2- has anyone spoken to anyone involved on the day?

3- was anyone there at the time?

Unless you can truthfully answer yes to any of those questions, you're guessing. And that puts all of us in the same boat.

There are separate issues here which aren't changed by that fact.

1- Are there racist Police officers? Certainly, just like there are racist shop workers, binmen and doctors. Racism is ever present in our society.

2- Are some kids around this age dangerous little shits? Certainly, and I'd suggest you don't really know which ones until you're in a situation with them.

3- Do the police go out of their way to employ a multicultural police service? Certainly, and every year they recruit a higher % of diverse ethnicities than almost any other profession.

4- Does the media deliberately focus on specific elements of an incident in order to sensationalise it and make money. Without a doubt, it's their job now.

If this is the response to reporting like this, the situations never going to get better.

This is without a doubt the most sensible, accurate and eloquent post I have ever seen on a fab forum

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Out of interest, has anyone got any knowledge of the incident that isn't from a newspaper/online outlet?

1- has anyone seen the toy guns that were used?

2- has anyone spoken to anyone involved on the day?

3- was anyone there at the time?

Unless you can truthfully answer yes to any of those questions, you're guessing. And that puts all of us in the same boat.

There are separate issues here which aren't changed by that fact.

1- Are there racist Police officers? Certainly, just like there are racist shop workers, binmen and doctors. Racism is ever present in our society.

2- Are some kids around this age dangerous little shits? Certainly, and I'd suggest you don't really know which ones until you're in a situation with them.

3- Do the police go out of their way to employ a multicultural police service? Certainly, and every year they recruit a higher % of diverse ethnicities than almost any other profession.

4- Does the media deliberately focus on specific elements of an incident in order to sensationalise it and make money. Without a doubt, it's their job now.

If this is the response to reporting like this, the situations never going to get better.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Out of interest, has anyone got any knowledge of the incident that isn't from a newspaper/online outlet?

1- has anyone seen the toy guns that were used?

2- has anyone spoken to anyone involved on the day?

3- was anyone there at the time?

Unless you can truthfully answer yes to any of those questions, you're guessing. And that puts all of us in the same boat.

There are separate issues here which aren't changed by that fact.

1- Are there racist Police officers? Certainly, just like there are racist shop workers, binmen and doctors. Racism is ever present in our society.

2- Are some kids around this age dangerous little shits? Certainly, and I'd suggest you don't really know which ones until you're in a situation with them.

3- Do the police go out of their way to employ a multicultural police service? Certainly, and every year they recruit a higher % of diverse ethnicities than almost any other profession.

4- Does the media deliberately focus on specific elements of an incident in order to sensationalise it and make money. Without a doubt, it's their job now.

If this is the response to reporting like this, the situations never going to get better.

see my brief post above

not as detailed as yours x

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

These kinds of mistakes? We’re talking about a 13 year old that was moments away from dying because a police officer couldn’t tell that a blue water gun was clearly a blue water gun.

God Bless Tamir Rice who died in America because of this ‘human error’. Tamir Rice would be 21 if he wasn’t shot by a police officer almost exactly 9 years ago.

Absolutely right.

The people the Police deal with are more varied and more informed than they ever have been. The world is now a place where a water pistol could be full of acid, a 10yr old could be carrying a knife, and happy to use it.

I don't want to be facing those decisions every day, and really, no one does. But that's their job.

Personally I'm glad that no one was hurt above all else.

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

"I removed my comments for similar reasons.

I read the thread and the 'knowledge' that people are using of the incident is 100% hear say.

No one has a complete picture of what happened. "

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

It's possible to have an opinion without racist.

I'm not going to participate any further and before anyone jump's on me I think the police were justified in attending the incident but their handling was disproportionate and clumsy.

Absolutely with you here!

Mrs "

I don’t understand why you’re both under the impression that I think you’re racist for disagreeing or not thinking this is about race. Frankly it’s a really lazy assumption about me and one that is suggestive of the fact that my understanding of racism is weak. If I think someone is a racist I have more valid reasons than this. I’ve not implied anyone in this thread is a racist simply because I disagree with them and have articulated that in posts. Both your comment earlier and this comment you’re replying to along with frida’s comment are kinda insulting to my intelligence but whatever.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Racism is utterly pointless. I've always thought that anything that divides people into little groups works against the strength of society. Societies flourish when there is diversity of opinion and experience.

It is. But based on its history, it has been used to establish, reinforce and reflect power relations in societies. It’s unavoidable that it exists. Racism is pointless but it exists and we have to fight it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Apologies to all for my moment of weakness posting this thread. I should’ve known how it would go.

But to clarify I don’t think anyone is a racist simply because they disagree with me on this - Whether I personally think there is racism at play here or not. This idea about me on the forums is so exhausting and is such a common tactic used to stop people from talking about race and racism. But like I’ve just said, mostly it’s insulting to someone’s intelligence and their understanding of racism. I’ve read plenty and studied plenty about racism. I know what it is and isn’t. So if we could please stop with the lazy implications based on personal feelings or insecurity or something else, I’d appreciate it. Especially from people that I don’t know and have never spoken to properly about racism before.

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By *arlequin_tearsMan over a year ago

Sheffield

The Met has serious issues with corruption & accountability. It is in serious need of reform and has done for years. Whether it's dealing with race, treatment of sexual assault victims, turning a blind eye to crimes by government officials or issues with criminal behaviour by its own officers.

In this specific case, the armed response team did its job and acted on the information it had.

The fact that reacted poorly when confronted by an angry parent can be explained by having to deal with the sudden adrenaline comedown. Going from possible shooting to community policing is going to be a hard switch for anyone.

There are serious differences between this case & Tamir Rice.

Rice was killed by a 'gypsy cop' who had been flagged at his previous job in California as someone who should not be trusted with a firearm and had issues that could not be trained out.

In the US cops shoot and kill over 1000 people a year. British fire-arms officers are an elite group of highly trained professionals and the kid is upset, but they notably weren't shot.

If there are serious questions to be asked it is of the officer who called the situation in.

There were two kids playing with water pistols. The sister does not appear to have been arrested and appears to have been seen as a potential victim. The officer who decided there was a potential firearms incident and didn't take the time to fully assess the situation, de-escalate it or cancel the shout when it was clear what was happening likely has some serious explaining to do.

In terms of age.

Speaking as a parent of teens; someone who has handled firearms; as someone who was almost beaten to death by a group of kids between the ages 10 and 16.

13-year-olds are perfectly capable of violence and of doing serious harm to others. If they have access to an Airsoft gun, air rifle let alone a firearm serious physical harm or death are a real possibility.

Does the Met have a race issue? Oh god yes.

Is that institutional thinking an issue in this case? Yes, but not by the firearms team. They got a report acted on it in line with policy and their training. The Met did the right thing in apologising.

The officer who called it in is the key fault in this sad, but fortunately not tragic story.

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By *ou only live onceMan over a year ago

London

Fwiw, Steve, I'm just going to back you up. You have called no-one racist on this thread, or even suggested it, so it's unfair for anyone to say otherwise.

On the actual incident, it's obviously not racist to say you think the police got this right. But, and I made this point earlier, if you think the police would not think twice about taking the same approach to a 13yo white child, then you've not been paying attention. You might not like it, but there's an awful lot of evidence pointing to differences in treatment (and outcome) between black and white people. I don't think we should accept that as ok.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Fwiw, Steve, I'm just going to back you up. You have called no-one racist on this thread, or even suggested it, so it's unfair for anyone to say otherwise.

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

These kind of mistakes will happen due to human error. But I'd rather the error was this way around and not a dead child.

Totally with you, had it been real and they'd not responded it would be a different story.

Mrs

But it was a blue and pink water gun.

so let’s focus on what actually happened

And until they got close enough to identify it wasn't dangerous they don't know that, guns these days aren't all black/silver.

They responded to a potential fire arms incident with a person potentially in danger, they did the right thing.

I'm sorry I don't agree with you here pickles.

They would have responsibility to any potential fire arms call regardless of ethnicity & if they didn't respond at all then that's an issue.

Mrs

Is it possible that the police officer who called this is just wasn't competent rather than racist?

Is it possible that office had been threatened, intimidated or hurt in an incident involving youths before and didn't handle this one well?

Is it possible the officer was racist?

Sadly, yes to all.

I've seen some shocking footage recently of local kids on a bus assaulting another passenger who tried to stop them bullying a young girl. The kids were 10-14 and all white. They punched, kicked and spat on a white male in his 30s. On a bus, in the middle of the day.

Events like this don't make the news because they're so common now that's there's no sensational angle. It's just sad.

Race is a part of what skews people's perceptions now, but so is age, appearance and location. None of these things is as clear cut as they once were.

I don't experience the prejudice a black man does. A black man doesn't experience the prejudice a woman does. Most of us don't experience the prejudice the Police do. And for those who are also black, or female etc it's harder again.

I don't see any press articles talking about the prejudice faced by paramedics, police officers or hospital staff. It's not sensational enough.

There's a lot of talk on most online platforms about trolls, sowing dissent, causing conflict, and agitating people against each other. That sounds a lot like most of the media right now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Apologies to all for my moment of weakness posting this thread. I should’ve known how it would go.

Who cares what they think about you. Some will appreciate you and some won't.

You get people talking about it and that can only be a good thing.

If they are abusive take it as a compliment that you have affected them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I myself always struggle to articulate my thoughts effectively on topics such as this one for the reason that I'm white and soley because I am white I have privileges that many do not. I do not think I've even been spoken to by the police in all my years on this earth.

I know that if it was my brother or my sister the cops would more than likely not even been called, I highly doubt that it would have entered anyones head to even call.

My nieces and nephews are young and have done this themselves outside their own hones in warm weather and nobody thought to call the police on them.

Yes ok I do not know what the caller said to the police or how it was reported as such but I will say that my neighbours reported an issue with my son whilst I wasn't home the neighbours thought someone was breaking in and they did not know it was my son , he was with friends so it was rather a large group of teenagers, older teens may I add no gun or even anything that looked like a one but it was reported that a knife was seen. This however was not true, nobody had a knife. and two female cops showed up that was it. There was no big burly men . Yes it wasn't a gun but really it was still a group of big older lads, white ones and it was reported that one had a knife .

I do feel that if they had been black the response would have been extremely different.

I am so sorry for the kids and parents involved I genuinely cannot imagine my child going through that.

You can say gang culture the times or whatever has scewed perception but look at my story there. My point is my kids and his friends are white, I am white we are dealt with extremely differently.

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

Surely what we have to fight is ignorance and prejudice, not just racism?

Every time we boil prejudice down to one focus, we're allowing other prejudices more room. Can someone be black and racist? Yes. Can someone be female and sexist? Yes. Can we all be prejudiced or biased based on our life experiences? Yes. Just saying we have to fight racism isn't enough.

In my personal opinion only, there's only one spectrum for humans and it isn't based on race, sex, religion or gender.

At one end is decent inclusive human being and the other end is total evil arsehole. We're all on that spectrum and it should be the only thing we use to differentiate.

The difficulty will always come from that fact that a group will be persecuted and then they have to be part of the long term solution by not repeating the behaviour they've experienced. I can't even begin to imagine how hard that would be.

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

"The Met has serious issues with corruption & accountability. It is in serious need of reform and has done for years. Whether it's dealing with race, treatment of sexual assault victims, turning a blind eye to crimes by government officials or issues with criminal behaviour by its own officers.

In this specific case, the armed response team did its job and acted on the information it had.

There are serious differences between this case & Tamir Rice.

Rice was killed by a 'gypsy cop' who had been flagged at his previous job in California as someone who should not be trusted with a firearm and had issues that could not be trained out.

In the US cops shoot and kill over 1000 people a year. British fire-arms officers are an elite group of highly trained professionals and the kid is upset, but they notably weren't shot.

If there are serious questions to be asked it is of the officer who called the situation in.

In terms of age.

Speaking as a parent of teens; someone who has handled firearms; as someone who was almost beaten to death by a group of kids between the ages 10 and 16.

Does the Met have a race issue? Oh god yes.

The officer who called it in is the key fault in this sad, but fortunately not tragic story.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

In this specific case, the armed response team did its job and acted on the information it had.

There are serious differences between this case & Tamir Rice.

Rice was killed by a 'gypsy cop' who had been flagged at his previous job in California as someone who should not be trusted with a firearm and had issues that could not be trained out.

In the US cops shoot and kill over 1000 people a year. British fire-arms officers are an elite group of highly trained professionals and the kid is upset, but they notably weren't shot.

If there are serious questions to be asked it is of the officer who called the situation in.

In terms of age.

Speaking as a parent of teens; someone who has handled firearms; as someone who was almost beaten to death by a group of kids between the ages 10 and 16.

Does the Met have a race issue? Oh god yes.

The officer who called it in is the key fault in this sad, but fortunately not tragic story.

Thanks for sharing that. These can sometimes be good and informative discussions.

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By *enSiskoMan over a year ago

Cestus 3

WOW just wow.

Guys you all need to YouTube stop and search in Britian.

The one and one of many but this one was a call that a group of young black males one of which had a firearm.

When the met stopped and search them (armed officers) there were two white males with the group who were put to onside whilst the police searched the others, throwing one to the ground and holding him down by his neck (before George Floyd).

The white youths expected to be searched and said to the police but they were ignored.

Disgusting that the assault on a 13 year old is seen as proportionate.

In the past we wouldn't listen to people of colour who insisted that the police were racist, that the police had killed a person just because of the colour of their skin, that the police are corrupt.

It took several r4pes, kidn4pping and murder, sexual exposure racist WhatsApp groups etc.

that were committed against white people before anyone listened to the black experience.

So I guess we will have to wait until police shoot or assault a 13 yr old white boy before we listen and learn that it is us who allow this behaviour from the police and as long as we stay silent this behaviour will continue.

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple over a year ago

Preston

"WOW just wow.

Guys you all need to YouTube stop and search in Britian.

The one and one of many but this one was a call that a group of young black males one of which had a firearm.

The white youths expected to be searched and said to the police but they were ignored.

Disgusting that the assault on a 13 year old is seen as proportionate.

In the past we wouldn't listen to people of colour who insisted that the police were racist, that the police had killed a person just because of the colour of their skin, that the police are corrupt.

It took several r4pes, kidn4pping and murder, sexual exposure racist WhatsApp groups etc.

that were committed against white people before anyone listened to the black experience.

Read that post out loud. But replace every mention of police, with black, or trans or female. It sounds hateful doesn't it?

If the only way to deal with incidents like this is to show prejudice against another group, we're truly fucked as a society.

Bear in mind that there are incidents like this every day, but only certain ones get traction. And not all of them are warranted.

Again, social media being a cattle prod for conflict continuation.

There are plenty of posts in this thread that show people understand that there are issues here that should be addressed. Deciding there's only one view, based on a YouTube video and a paper article seems a bit narrow doesn't it?