FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Euthanasia

Euthanasia

By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oaps should be shot at birth

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By *eroLondonMan over a year ago

Covent Garden

I think the youth in Asia should be left alone.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

100%.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes. They didn't have a choice in getting sick, let's give them a choice to die on their terms.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?"

We believe in euthanasia.

But guess we're both swayed as have watched family members have no quality of life for years and years, to the point where they have said they wished they weren't here anymore x

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By *estarossa.Woman over a year ago

Flagrante

Yes, I think end-of-life care in this country is terribly flawed.

Having watched my father die, painfully, in 2017, from pancreatic cancer, I wouldn't do that to my dog.

In fact we don't.

We give them the dignity of a peaceful end, before things like that can ravage them.

There should definitely be an option for those with a terminal diagnosis to have a discussion and a release, because thats what it is. From a terrible death.

And for those with power of attourney granted, where there the mental capacity to decide has gone, because of dementia, or the myriad reasons, a group, similar to a jury, to decide on their behalf.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?

We believe in euthanasia.

But guess we're both swayed as have watched family members have no quality of life for years and years, to the point where they have said they wished they weren't here anymore x"

Correct.Saw that with my Grandmother,Motor Neurone disease.Awful.

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By *oo..Woman over a year ago

Boo's World

Yes, you shouldn't have to travel abroad in order to do it.

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By *heGateKeeperMan over a year ago

Stratford

I think we need to be more open to people expressing this as a wish when they still have mental capacity. I know it’s what I’d personally want

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I’m against it.

Sound mind is entirely subjective and open to interpretation. And abuse.

Every right or law provides the basis for what comes next, and the erosion of fundamental protections can look innocuous and reasonable. Germany in the 1930s, America in the 1950s both examples of this.

Morally it is a short philosophical step from quality of life to utility of life. Quality of life as a formula already informs medicating and care decisions. This is not a big leap.

Just my opinion though.

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By *adMerWoman over a year ago

Sandwich

I am for it. Everyone that wants to die, should be allowed to. There should be checks and balances in place.

It’s disgusting the way people are allowed to slowly starve to death of dementia. We’re more caring for our pets than our sick and elderly!

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By *hrista BellendWoman over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

I'm for it, we all should be able, to choose how we die

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By *cottish guy 555Man over a year ago

London

Absolutely, let people have the choice of a dignified and peaceful end if they so desire

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By *ilthyParamedicMan over a year ago

Lancaster

I'm for it.

As long as the person has the capacity and can make that decision, then they should be allowed to make it for themselves.

Having seen the torture (both physically and mentally) that patients and family members have gone through, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Capacity (sound mind) is easy to check and confirm. We should be able to decide whether to go through the pain or not.

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By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

"I am for it. Everyone that wants to die, should be allowed to. There should be checks and balances in place.

It’s disgusting the way people are allowed to slowly starve to death of dementia. We’re more caring for our pets than our sick and elderly!

My mother has severe dementia, I know she would want to die on her own terms and with dignity.

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By *ris GrayMan over a year ago

Dorchester

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?"
You started this thread because of the British guy in greece who suffocated his wife who had blood cancer, married 50 years in a loving relationship...... Yes for this and others like it, she was in pain

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By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?You started this thread because of the British guy in greece who suffocated his wife who had blood cancer, married 50 years in a loving relationship...... Yes for this and others like it, she was in pain

Yes I did and it got thinking about my mother.

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By *urhamlad2022Man over a year ago

here&there

If you’re terminally ill then yes! You should be given the choice to end your life before your riddled with pain.

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By *arkandlovelyWoman over a year ago

South Derbyshire

Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes we agree with allowing people some dignity at the end of their life by having a choice.

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By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either."

Can you explain please ?

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

Only in very extreme cases with watertight safeguards.

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By *aitonelMan over a year ago

Travelling

It is very tricky and without proper enforcement of rules and "safety" measures it is open to all kinds of abuse.

But yes. If somebody is in such pain or poor QoL, especially if it is how they feel, it is their life to do what they wish

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I think when considering euthanasia you need to consider the people who have to make the decision, put their name to it and carry out the act.

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

My son broke my heart last month, he was asking me about the Netherlands

He told me the reason, he found out that Autists over 50 are eligible to apply for euthanasia.

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By *ooo wet tight hornyWoman over a year ago

lancashire

"I think we need to be more open to people expressing this as a wish when they still have mental capacity. I know it’s what I’d personally want "

I agree with this..maybe a legal document signed at an earlier point in life? We can instruct for a 'DNR' (Do Not Resuscitate) so why not Euthanasia to bring serious illness and suffering to an end and the end be a peaceful dignified one.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it should be allowed and already have it planned for when my life goes down hill. As soon as I hit 30, just ship me off to Dignitas!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Everyone's experience is going to be different, I can only say I would of eased my nans pain instead of her being treated as a pin cushion and I would live with the decision with no regret.

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS over a year ago

Carlisle

Yes it should be legal especially those with terminal illness like cancer etc why should someone suffer in pain. Morphine only works so much sadly, My best friend died from cancer and he had enough the last few months! He even spoke about going to Switzerland where it is illegal but he went into a hospice in the end.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"My son broke my heart last month, he was asking me about the Netherlands

He told me the reason, he found out that Autists over 50 are eligible to apply for euthanasia."

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I don't think that signing a document earlier in life is a good idea. Never underestimate the desire to stay alive or the existence of hope. Don't underestimate either the reality of agreeing with a loved one that now is their time to die.

Having a DNR (which is basically agreeing that you don't want to be revived after a catastrophic event) which you or your next of kin has signed on your behalf after (alledgedly) having been given advice from medical professionals is a world away from agreeing to deliberately end a life.

It's one thing in theory and quite another in reality

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"My son broke my heart last month, he was asking me about the Netherlands

He told me the reason, he found out that Autists over 50 are eligible to apply for euthanasia.

Up to that point, if you asked did I agree with it I would have said yes.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"My son broke my heart last month, he was asking me about the Netherlands

He told me the reason, he found out that Autists over 50 are eligible to apply for euthanasia.

Up to that point, if you asked did I agree with it I would have said yes."

I understand.

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By *arkandlovelyWoman over a year ago

South Derbyshire

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?"

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

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By *ostindreamsMan over a year ago

London

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc). "

I am ok with Euthanasia for terminally ill. But for others, I would like the process to be as hard and long as possible. Everyone goes through phases in life where they feel maybe death is an easy way out. But we learn to fight the problems and live our lives. By making it easily available, we would end up encouraging people to do it.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

In principle I'm in favour. But the actual implementation with appropriate safeguards would be a minefield. Absolutely whatever the framing of the law it would end up being abused in one direction or another, basically just because there are a significant number of evil people in the population.

We don't worry too much about abuse of the law allowing people to put their pets to sleep when close to end of life, as it's seldom the case that anyone is going to inherit house and money from Tiddles the cat. On the other hand there's plenty that might well be tempted to nudge Granny into going early, so she doesn't spend all the money on her nursing care...

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By *egasus NobMan over a year ago

Merton

it should be allowed but with a lengthy process of say 5 years and check up to ensure that is your desired decision.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

I partially disagree with that. If for example, I got into an accident that meant I had nowhere near the quality of life I did before, although I wouldn't be terminally ill, I shouldn't be forced to live if I didn't want to because surviving isn't living.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc). "

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By *penbicoupleCouple over a year ago

Northampton

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?"

I think it should be allowed for anyone. The real issue will be ensuring people *really* want it, aren't being pressured, etc.

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?

I think it should be allowed for anyone. The real issue will be ensuring people *really* want it, aren't being pressured, etc. "

I think it was in ancient greece where you could petition for the right to end your life. It wasn't a quick or easy process. The petitioner would be questioned and evidence could be heard from others for and against the request.

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By *ostindreamsMan over a year ago

London

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

I said it could be allowed. But the process should be long and hard. I have met handicapped people in my life. Are they having same quality of life as me? No. But they do love to live. Pretty sure anyone who is handicapped after an accident would opt for euthanasia if you ask them immediately. But we need to provide all the support they need. Euthanasia should really be the last option.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

See, you think you know that you'll do or not do XYZ if ABC happens to you, but in reality, you don't. Until ABC happens to you, you have no idea how you'll feel or what you'll want. You may go through phases of wanting to end it all. Fuck it, I know I have. But current me would regret having taken that action, knowing how positive life can be when my environment is more suited to my needs.

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

All that said, I do support the availability of euthanasia in cases of terminal illness and other very serious illness but only with major safeguards around it. I don't think, however, anything can be "pre signed" because of what I've said above. I know a lot of people who think "finishing up" as a wheelchair user is one of the worst things they can imagine (now). If I'd signed something that suggested I'd like to be terminated if I became a wheelchair user, I'd have made one hell of a big mistake.

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By *ed VoluptaWoman over a year ago

Wirral.

"I don't think that signing a document earlier in life is a good idea. Never underestimate the desire to stay alive or the existence of hope. Don't underestimate either the reality of agreeing with a loved one that now is their time to die.

It's one thing in theory and quite another in reality "

This, totally.

Nobody wants to think of their loved ones living with crippling pain with no chance of a cure, but to make the decision on someone else's behalf? To sign a document stating you want to be put down when the time comes, if you are no longer of sound mind, leaving the decision to someone else leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.Apart from it being open to abuse, people can change their mind.

And yes, I watched both my parents die unpleasant deaths.

If you are of sound mind & can truly make the decision yourself? I'm all for it. But how do we know vulnerable folk are not being coerced by unscrupulous relatives?

It's a minefield. I think I'd err on the side of caution.

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By *ostindreamsMan over a year ago

London

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I totally agree with it. However there are a few issues, for example the Hippocratic Oath states that doctors should not do harm.

Most doctors in the NHS know when. Patient would be better off passing away. Often a palliative care doctor or Nurae will fit a syringe driver which gives a slow dose of morphine and midazolam which essentially puts the body into a state where the patient sleeps, doesn't ask for water or food and will die after a few days. This is the closest and only legal form of assisted death in the UK.

Years ago a worked in a hospital for women with eating disorders and personality disorders. I young woman, maybe early 20s who was kept securely due to her mental health assessment, would write to the euthanasia clinics to ask for permission to be accepted as a patient.

I believe that in theory the practice should be allowed buy it would have to be monitored and regulated to such a degree that it could cause more harm than good. Constant assessments, mental health evals, physical testing would have to be performed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

I suppose it's just on person by person basis. It's great that people that have disabilities push through and continue to live their life the way they want with what they're given. But there are always two sides to it and while given all the support, some people may not be able to move past it and would it be considered selfish forcing them to live, making it as hard as possible to end their life if it's their choice?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

" I suppose it's just on person by person basis. It's great that people that have disabilities push through and continue to live their life the way they want with what they're given. But there are always two sides to it and while given all the support, some people may not be able to move past it and would it be considered selfish forcing them to live, making it as hard as possible to end their life if it's their choice?"

The lives of many disabled people could be a hell of a lot easier and more fulfilling if the systematic barriers to their inclusion in society were lifted. If our elected leaders stopped talking about disabled people as scroungers, workshy etc. If trains were easy to get on and off. If mobility aids were freely available on the NHS, instead of costing tens of thousands of pounds or more. If accessible homes were the default building standard, rather than 3 storey doll's houses with steps at the entrance and only bathtubs. Etc etc.

The majority of people with disabilities are able to participate in society, but society does not allow their full participation. Let's fix that first, before we make it easier for disabled people to remove themselves from society forever.

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By *ostindreamsMan over a year ago

London

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

My point is people regularly get emotional and tend to make choices they regret. Death is an irreversible process. So it should not be easily accessible.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

Head bloody hear.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

I just used myself as an example and I know others with disabilities can be up and down with their feelings as a result of disabilities. But like I said in my previous reply, is it really fair to stop those that absolutely want to go through with it from doing so? We act like the bad feelings are just a phase that can be corrected with support but what if it's the good parts that just a phase in another otherwise, shit quality of living. I agree with the safeguards, but ultimately, we shouldn't force people to live lives they don't want to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok no, that's a very fair perspective and absolutely right when you say disabled people aren't included in a way they could be and that could then lead to those negative feelings of helplessness. Thank you for helping me understand that and only hope facilities and accessibility can improve going forward

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

Note I'm not completely against euthanasia. However I am against the idea of a "living Will" sort of approach or making it easy to come to that sort of choice. My reason being already explained, but basically because people think they know what it means to have a disability but actually, until it happens, they don't. You cannot make an informed decision about something you don't know about.

All the stereotypes of disability are negative. That's not because having a disability is always negative, but it is because of the systematic exclusion of disabled people from society, as I explained in the second post.

Before making access to euthanasia easier, we should be genuinely and actively making it easier for disabled people to live fulfilling lives. If, despite all good intents, life is too horrendous, then maybe euthanasia could be an option.

But none of this "if I ever finish up in a wheelchair, I'm going to kill myself" because folks do not know what they are saying, honestly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Note I'm not completely against euthanasia. However I am against the idea of a "living Will" sort of approach or making it easy to come to that sort of choice. My reason being already explained, but basically because people think they know what it means to have a disability but actually, until it happens, they don't. You cannot make an informed decision about something you don't know about.

But none of this "if I ever finish up in a wheelchair, I'm going to kill myself" because folks do not know what they are saying, honestly. "

I replied to the pojt above in relation to this to say you were right about accessibility but for the record, I never said anything about wanting to kill myself if I ended up in a wheelchair, you jumped to that on your own. Possibly, through your own experience for which I'm sorry to hear, but please don't put those words in my mouth.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

But none of this "if I ever finish up in a wheelchair, I'm going to kill myself" because folks do not know what they are saying, honestly.

I didn't mean you directly, Joe, in my latter posts. I mean anyone who thinks like that or says that. The royal "you", as it were.

Yes, these are just my little issues

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I did use terms like "folks" and "people" to refer to people in general

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I did use terms like "folks" and "people" to refer to people in general

are to allow anyone the right to choose for themselves. Not just related to disability or terminal illness etc.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I don't think anyone can say how they truly feel about this subject until they are faced with the reality.

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By *ed VoluptaWoman over a year ago

Wirral.

"I did use terms like "folks" and "people" to refer to people in general

are to allow anyone the right to choose for themselves. Not just related to disability or terminal illness etc.

I thought euthanasia/assisted dying was related to terminal illness (correct me if it's not). Other wise is it not suicide?

I'm confused.

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By * and M lookingCouple over a year ago

Worcester

100%

In my book, we should all retire at 50, have 15 years then fly off to our final destination.

Just my view but nursing homes just aren’t for me.

The Mr.

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By *ostindreamsMan over a year ago

London

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

Again, no one is forcing anyone to. But as a society, we have so many rules to stop people from doing stupid things. Even the most intelligent people do stupid things once in awhile. Unlike most other mistakes that one can recover from, death is a mistake one cannot recover from. You can always change your mind after living for a month. You cannot change your mind after dying once. Hence death needs much more thought than any other decision.

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By *ed VoluptaWoman over a year ago

Wirral.

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"100%

In my book, we should all retire at 50, have 15 years then fly off to our final destination.

Just my view but nursing homes just aren’t for me.

The Mr."

Are we all being shipped off to nursing homes at 65 now? I didn't get that memo, I've gone rogue and living wild

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"I did use terms like "folks" and "people" to refer to people in general

are to allow anyone the right to choose for themselves. Not just related to disability or terminal illness etc.

I thought euthanasia/assisted dying was related to terminal illness (correct me if it's not). Other wise is it not suicide?

I'm confused. "

It usually relates to people who are unable to take actions to end their own lives, through illness or disability, yes. But there's a school of thought that suggests euthanasia (with guaranteed, medically supervised death) should be available as an option to people who believe they do wish to die but don't want the "risk" of their suicide going wrong, not working etc. Because of course, the potential consequences of unsuccessful suicide attempts could be profound disability. And that may render further suicide attempts impossible.

This is my understanding, anyway.

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By *tooveMan over a year ago

belfast

"I think the youth in Asia should be left alone.

I think you should leave humour to humorous people.

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By * and M lookingCouple over a year ago

Worcester

"100%

In my book, we should all retire at 50, have 15 years then fly off to our final destination.

Just my view but nursing homes just aren’t for me.

The Mr.

Are we all being shipped off to nursing homes at 65 now? I didn't get that memo, I've gone rogue and living wild

No, but old age isn’t pretty and personally, I would rather go out with my dignity intact.

We wouldn’t put an animal through what we do to our elderly.

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By *ed VoluptaWoman over a year ago

Wirral.

"I did use terms like "folks" and "people" to refer to people in general

are to allow anyone the right to choose for themselves. Not just related to disability or terminal illness etc.

I thought euthanasia/assisted dying was related to terminal illness (correct me if it's not). Other wise is it not suicide?

I'm confused.

This is my understanding, anyway. "

Crikey. And I thought suicide was a Very Bad Thing and should always be avoided.

Joking aside, that's a very scary scenario, isn't it? I can say hand on heart that I'm 100% against allowing or assisting in someone's suicide (as distinct from what I understood euthanasia was. Which I'm not really for, either).

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By *ed VoluptaWoman over a year ago

Wirral.

"I think the youth in Asia should be left alone.

I think you should leave humour to humorous people. "

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"100%

In my book, we should all retire at 50, have 15 years then fly off to our final destination.

Just my view but nursing homes just aren’t for me.

The Mr.

Are we all being shipped off to nursing homes at 65 now? I didn't get that memo, I've gone rogue and living wild

No, but old age isn’t pretty and personally, I would rather go out with my dignity intact.

We wouldn’t put an animal through what we do to our elderly."

I'm a year past your proposed expiry date. I reckon I'm capable of independent, useful living for around 10/15 years at least, barring accident.

My dad's 96 and lives independently with no help apart from a cleaner and gardener. I don't think either of us feel like we've been out through anything. My mum on the other hand had a fairly awful last few years and I wouldn't enjoy living that.

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By *ed VoluptaWoman over a year ago

Wirral.

"100%

In my book, we should all retire at 50, have 15 years then fly off to our final destination.

Just my view but nursing homes just aren’t for me.

The Mr.

Are we all being shipped off to nursing homes at 65 now? I didn't get that memo, I've gone rogue and living wild

No, but old age isn’t pretty and personally, I would rather go out with my dignity intact.

We wouldn’t put an animal through what we do to our elderly."

I'm of an age with you (almost 56) and I have to say your cut off age of 65 isn't "elderly". Not only will I still be working, I hope to be still enjoying life to the full!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I did use terms like "folks" and "people" to refer to people in general

Fair enough, I got a bit defensive there and should've read between the lines at what I knew you meant

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Some thoughts, as devil's advocate. There's been discussion about euthanasia in the case of acquired illness/disability and many people suggesting some kind of pre-signed consent or "living will" type system. This is assuming that people have a period of healthy life (whatever we define that as) before acquiring disability or illness.

But what about those born with disabilities? What about those who never have the capacity to consent to euthanasia? Who know no other life than one with a disability? Do we have a two tier system where the "lucky" disabled people (those who started out life without a disability) have many options, but those "unlucky" have no option but to live with their disability and no options to choose if/when to end their lives?

Will the (already very limited) support services for such people continue to exist in a world where more people with disabilities choose to die and therefore there's less demand? Will less visibility of disabled people in society lead to further marginalisation? Or more help? Will it lead to parents feeling under pressure to end the lives of their disabled children? Will that be an "option"? Should it be an option?

I could go on. There's just too much to think about before we get anywhere near coming up with a safe solution that doesn't result in ill, disabled, elderly etc people feeling like they have no other option because there's even less support to live with the conditions they have (from birth) or acquire.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some thoughts, as devil's advocate. There's been discussion about euthanasia in the case of acquired illness/disability and many people suggesting some kind of pre-signed consent or "living will" type system. This is assuming that people have a period of healthy life (whatever we define that as) before acquiring disability or illness.

Very good point very well made.

I still feel people have the right to choose for themselves and shouldn't be guilt tripped either way. (Disability, age, etc etc)

I'll step away from this but will continue to read.

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By *eroLondonMan over a year ago

Covent Garden

"I think the youth in Asia should be left alone.

I think you should leave humour to humorous people. "

•

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By *ichaelsmyMan over a year ago

douglas

we are allowed to give an animal, why do we put our human loved ones through hell

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By *ichaelsmyMan over a year ago

douglas

ever watched the terry prachett programme on the subject.

thought and emotions

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc).

Basically, don't think you know what you'll think in the future, even if you think you'll know.

All that said, I do support the availability of euthanasia in cases of terminal illness and other very serious illness but only with major safeguards around it. I don't think, however, anything can be "pre signed" because of what I've said above. I know a lot of people who think "finishing up" as a wheelchair user is one of the worst thingsthey can imagine (now). If I'd signed something that suggested I'd like to be terminated if I became a wheelchair user, I'd have made one hell of a big mistake. "

This assumes people haven't thought long and hard about what may happen to them and decided on a course of action if it actually did.A friend of mine,on discovering a terminal illness did what he always said earlier this month and shot himself.I have always said the same (luckily I too have the means)and include any accident or illness that put me in a wheelchair.Those who want to fight on in that situation,fight on.Your body your life your choice.You have that choice.Dont take my choice away from me or other people.

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By *amantha_JadeWoman over a year ago

Newcastle

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

I think everyone should be free to make the decision to die peacefully and painlessly without risking the complications that can come from failed suicide attempts (disability, disfigurement etc). "

Agree

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"This assumes people haven't thought long and hard about what may happen to them and decided on a course of action if it actually did.A friend of mine,on discovering a terminal illness did what he always said earlier this month and shot himself.I have always said the same (luckily I too have the means)and include any accident or illness that put me in a wheelchair.Those who want to fight on in that situation,fight on.Your body your life your choice.You have that choice.Dont take my choice away from me or other people."

How would people who are disabled from birth have thought long and hard about it? Or does euthanasia only apply to people who have the good fortune to experience some period of life without a disability or serious illness?

I'm not being facetious. I'm genuinely interested to know how a future with euthanasia addresses the people who never have capacity to consent or make living wills or ever have the ability to cause their own deaths via suicide.

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By *oubleswing2019Man over a year ago

Colchester

I personally believe the choice is down to the individual. And it shouldn't make any difference if they are terminally ill or not.

If you cannot remove yourself from this mortal coil as easy as you can buy a loaf of bread, then you don't have autonomy over your own body, do you ?

Sure the clinic would need to be convinced of your course of action, but removing their autonomy in the first place is a big no-no as far as I am concerned.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes - I wouldn’t want to suffer like my loved ones did

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread."

So to be clear, the suggestion is that only people who experience some level of non disabled life would be able to exercise autonomy, choice etc about the mode of their death? Everyone else would just have to suck it up and live with their disability? Why do only those who acquire disability later get to have all the choice? Why couldn't people with congenital disability? What's the difference? Again, very serious questions. I'm interested in the way in which to avoid perceived awful consequences of disability, we (the royal "we") come at it from a very ableist viewpoint.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread.

I wasn't suggesting that, no one else is suggesting that.The original post was about acquired terminal illness.You have gone off at a tangent relative to your situation.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread.

I wasn't suggesting that, no one else is suggesting that.The original post was about acquired terminal illness.You have gone off at a tangent relative to your situation."

I don't have a congenital disability. Mine was acquired as an adult so I'd get all the choice.

It's not a tangent, these are serious questions and considerations. A future law on euthanasia is not guaranteed to "just" be regarding terminal illness. You yourself have already stated you would opt for euthanasia if you acquired any disability resulting in the need for a wheelchair and stated quite clearly that you didn't want your choice removing. That's fine. So where's the choice of my friend with spina bifida? Or my friend born with a condition that is progressive and doesn't have many symptoms before the adolescent years? They both use wheelchairs - one since forever, the other since his 20s. Both born with their respective conditions. What will their choice be, in the world of euthanasia? What if THEY don't want to live the wheelchair life?

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By *ust RachelTV/TS over a year ago

Horsham

How come we do the right thing, by putting to sleep an ill dog. Yet we civilised people, allow others to go on dying slow painful deaths.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dont know. I would like to think yes, but I have seen it when people with even the most hopeless and debilitating end of life conditions are still fighting and still wanting and trying to be alive despite what we may consider are just awful medical conditions. You couldnt ever truly know what you wanted until you were there in that situation. You can say you wouldn't want a thing now but if that was your life and you really wanted to hold on to it however awful, but had no way of letting anyone know and a decision was made for you by somebody else, well that would be terrible.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"How come we do the right thing, by putting to sleep an ill dog. Yet we civilised people, allow others to go on dying slow painful deaths."

Quite a lot of pet euthanasia cases are made at least in part for financial reasons, e.g. cannot afford an op to improve quality of life. How would we control human euthanasia to avoid similar financial "incentives".

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread.

I wasn't suggesting that, no one else is suggesting that.The original post was about acquired terminal illness.You have gone off at a tangent relative to your situation.

I don't have a congenital disability. Mine was acquired as an adult so I'd get all the choice.

Any law is what the lawmakers make it.It can be specific to terminal illness only or it could include conditions that someone is born with should that person wish to make a decision later in life.It is for people with those conditions to lobby politicians for a change in the law.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"How come we do the right thing, by putting to sleep an ill dog. Yet we civilised people, allow others to go on dying slow painful deaths.

By ways that have already been discussed by legal and medical professionals.A panel of X number of professionals in various areas who look at the individual cases and all those involved which would be mostly family.They look for financial motives,coercion etc and deliver a decision based on their investigation.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread.

I wasn't suggesting that, no one else is suggesting that.The original post was about acquired terminal illness.You have gone off at a tangent relative to your situation.

I don't have a congenital disability. Mine was acquired as an adult so I'd get all the choice.

Honestly, what a cop out. One minute it's absolutely nothing to do with people who have congenital conditions but once the juxtaposition of your intent to have your own choice with the potential for others to be denied that same choice is made clear, the response is basically "disabled people should campaign for it".

Can anyone now see why it's so difficult to write a law on euthanasia that's appropriate, safe and fair? Why shouting the word "choice" isn't enough and why comparisons to dogs and cats is unhelpful?

I wager few people here had even contemplated the situation for disabled people before this evening and only thought about it through the prism of their (current) able bodied sphere?

Lots of disabled people have campaigned for the right to choose euthanasia in reality, but they've got precisely nowhere.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

I wasn't talking about those born with disabilities or lack of mental capacity neither was the original topic of this thread.

I wasn't suggesting that, no one else is suggesting that.The original post was about acquired terminal illness.You have gone off at a tangent relative to your situation.

I don't have a congenital disability. Mine was acquired as an adult so I'd get all the choice.

Can anyone now see why it's so difficult to write a law on euthanasia that's appropriate, safe and fair? Why shouting the word "choice" isn't enough and why comparisons to dogs and cats is unhelpful?

I wager few people here had even contemplated the situation for disabled people before this evening and only thought about it through the prism of their (current) able bodied sphere?

Lots of disabled people have campaigned for the right to choose euthanasia in reality, but they've got precisely nowhere. "

RIGHT,let's get this clear,I am not trying to deny anybody the choice.It is not a "cop out".Look at the original post "terminal illness", that's acquired not born with.You have gone off at a tangent relative to your and friends situation.Lots of people have campaigned for stuff and got nowhere,but they kept on campaigning and eventually they breakthrough,gay marriage,female vicars etc If disabled people aren't going to campaign for anything who the fuck is?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia.

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By *oubleswing2019Man over a year ago

Colchester

Lots of disabled people have campaigned for the right to choose euthanasia in reality, but they've got precisely nowhere. "

And this is because an ableist society makes rules for disabled people that it thinks are helpful and fair. That's when it even makes rules. Most of the time, they are the complete opposite, dressed up in "good intentions".

I find it particularly offensive that disabled people are forced to beg, cajole, needle, and campaign to have rights. To have autonomy over their own bodies. Asking for special dispensation because of their condition may initially mean well, but is a form of otherism, isn't it ?

A Euthanasia Bill should be passed, allowing *any* individual, irrespective of their condition, the right to choose to end their life. Sure, questions can be asked, in case of coercion, etc. But fundamentally, it's the individual's own decision.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia."

Off you go then. The forum would be more than happy to proof read, we're sure.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia.

Off you go then. The forum would be more than happy to proof read, we're sure."

In a basic form which many lawyers have put forward,a confirmed terminal illness with no prospect of treatment or cure leading to a poor quality of life is grounds for someone to choose to end their life.The basic criteria that Dignitas requires.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia.

Off you go then. The forum would be more than happy to proof read, we're sure.

Apologies, but this removes your right to choose euthanasia due to the need to use a wheelchair for a disabling, but non-terminal condition. We're sure you'll understand.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia.

Off you go then. The forum would be more than happy to proof read, we're sure.

Apologies, but this removes your right to choose euthanasia due to the need to use a wheelchair for a disabling, but non-terminal condition. We're sure you'll understand. "

I said "basic form" and also in relation to the original post topic "terminal illness".

A law for wheelchair users is for you to write,you are putting yourself forward as the expert in your tangent,so go ahead write it.By the way just out of interest,how many campaigns,demonstrations,lobbying letters etc have you been engaged in to bring about the changes you want to see? What have YOU done to raise awareness and bring about change?

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By *ames-77Man over a year ago

milton keynes

I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia.

Off you go then. The forum would be more than happy to proof read, we're sure.

Apologies, but this removes your right to choose euthanasia due to the need to use a wheelchair for a disabling, but non-terminal condition. We're sure you'll understand.

I said "basic form" and also in relation to the original post topic "terminal illness".

Oh dear. Never mind.

Goodnight and let's hope the wheelchairs don't come to get you or anyone else.

Those of us born able bodied are only temporarily so. Most people will acquire some sort of impairment before they become worm food. It's just a question of when and how. But most people are too complacent to even think about it.

Goodnight.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures "

Not you again....all cures are natural because they are made from chemicals that are naturally occurring.

You can't cure ALS or Parkinsons or 100,000 other illnesses either with medicine or without.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"?It is not difficult to write a law on euthanasia.

Off you go then. The forum would be more than happy to proof read, we're sure.

Apologies, but this removes your right to choose euthanasia due to the need to use a wheelchair for a disabling, but non-terminal condition. We're sure you'll understand.

I said "basic form" and also in relation to the original post topic "terminal illness".

Oh dear. Never mind.

Goodnight and let's hope the wheelchairs don't come to get you or anyone else.

Goodnight. "

No attempt to write "your law" and no answer to the question about what you have done to further your cause.Just a patronising lazy "dismissal".Says it all.

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By *ames-77Man over a year ago

milton keynes

"I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures

Not you again....all cures are natural because they are made from chemicals that are naturally occurring.

You can't cure ALS or Parkinsons or 100,000 other illnesses either with medicine or without.

Wow aggression..

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By *ames-77Man over a year ago

milton keynes

"I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures

Not you again....all cures are natural because they are made from chemicals that are naturally occurring.

You can't cure ALS or Parkinsons or 100,000 other illnesses either with medicine or without.

Look up lions mane

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When the pain is overwhelming and quality of life is gone what is the point of continuing..yes it's hard and the person will love and be loved but it should be allowed as long as it's done properly with dignity

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures

Not you again....all cures are natural because they are made from chemicals that are naturally occurring.

You can't cure ALS or Parkinsons or 100,000 other illnesses either with medicine or without.

Look up lions mane"

It's an antioxidant, but so are apples , brocoli and most mushrooms. Lions mane also produces estrogen and lowers testosterone. In hospitals we use Astaxanthin. But non of it cures terminal illnesses or chronic pain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think you should have the choice of when and how you die, it's needless suffering that a person shouldn't have to go through if they do not wish to.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures

Not you again....all cures are natural because they are made from chemicals that are naturally occurring.

You can't cure ALS or Parkinsons or 100,000 other illnesses either with medicine or without.

Look up lions mane

Chronic pain is, well, a fookin' pain. I'm still awake because my injured leg has decided to have non stop muscle spasms and cramps and this is increasingly painful. Oh well, one endures.

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS over a year ago

Carlisle

"I think you should have the choice of when and how you die, it's needless suffering that a person shouldn't have to go through if they do not wish to. "
Exactly! Some illnesses are not curable sadly. It should be someone's right!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think people need to have more knowledge on natural cures

Not you again....all cures are natural because they are made from chemicals that are naturally occurring.

You can't cure ALS or Parkinsons or 100,000 other illnesses either with medicine or without.

Look up lions mane

Chronic pain is, well, a fookin' pain. I'm still awake because my injured leg has decided to have non stop muscle spasms and cramps and this is increasingly painful. Oh well, one endures. "

Exactly. In many cases people should have the right to decide

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS over a year ago

Carlisle

"I’m against it.

Sound mind is entirely subjective and open to interpretation. And abuse.

Morally it is a short philosophical step from quality of life to utility of life. Quality of life as a formula already informs medicating and care decisions. This is not a big leap.

Just my opinion though. "
It's not about you! It should be someone's right if they are suffering and have no quality of life. If someone has a incurable terminal illness why should they suffer?

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By *ames-77Man over a year ago

milton keynes

For the record though I do believe we should have this choice

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m against it.

Sound mind is entirely subjective and open to interpretation. And abuse.

Morally it is a short philosophical step from quality of life to utility of life. Quality of life as a formula already informs medicating and care decisions. This is not a big leap.

Just my opinion though. It's not about you! It should be someone's right if they are suffering and have no quality of life. If someone has a incurable terminal illness why should they suffer? "

Where do I say it’s about me?

What I’ve said is it’s not far from self determined euthanasia to state determined euthanasia.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just my view regarding terminal, ( I am not talking disability or mental issues, simply the medical diagnosis and description of 'Terminal').

I lost my wife 7 years ago to pancreatic cancer. She was 46 years of age and left behind our two beautiful girls then aged 11 and 16.

I was her carer 24/7 and the torture of her journey was almost too much to take. This terrible disease took her dignity and ravaged her for 5 months beginning to end.

It shattered our world and deeply affected all of us. (As her consultant said, "There is the dying patient, then there are the victims left behind."). My point is that she was in such horrific pain regardless of all medications that 6 weeks before she passed she asked me to 'help' her out of this world.

My late wife was an intelligent (NHS nurse), and was in total control of her facilities. I , however could not bring myself to do what she begged and pleaded me to.

My decision haunts me to this day because all I did was add to her pain, prolong her agony, and let our daughters witness their gorgeous caring mum be eaten away in front of them. Would I change my decision with hindsight? , I'm certain that I would but sadly took the cowards way and refused, leaving her resenting me even going as far as to ask our eldest daughter to talk to me about assisting my wife which caused unspeakable mental pain to those of us left behind for some considerable time after her death.

So (purely my own feelings based on the horror show our family endured), yes, in situations where there is zero hope of recovery 5hen it should be allowed. Other opinions are available elsewhere etc, etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do you think it should be allowed in the UK ?

My view on this subject is that it should be allowed for the terminal ill. The patient of sound mind should sign a document giving permission. What do you think ?"

Absolutely agree with this! I don’t understand how a government or any authority figure can take your choice away from you when you’re of sound mind

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just my view regarding terminal, ( I am not talking disability or mental issues, simply the medical diagnosis and description of 'Terminal').

I lost my wife 7 years ago to pancreatic cancer. She was 46 years of age and left behind our two beautiful girls then aged 11 and 16.

I was her carer 24/7 and the torture of her journey was almost too much to take. This terrible disease took her dignity and ravaged her for 5 months beginning to end.

My late wife was an intelligent (NHS nurse), and was in total control of her facilities. I , however could not bring myself to do what she begged and pleaded me to.

I am so sorry to hear this, and please don't berate yourself for the descision you made, and it most certainly is not "the cowards" choice as you put it. In time I hope you and your daughters are able to keep hold of less traumatic memories, as I am sure your wife and their mother would want. Thoughts are with you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, I think end-of-life care in this country is terribly flawed.

Having watched my father die, painfully, in 2017, from pancreatic cancer, I wouldn't do that to my dog.

In fact we don't.

We give them the dignity of a peaceful end, before things like that can ravage them.

There should definitely be an option for those with a terminal diagnosis to have a discussion and a release, because thats what it is. From a terrible death.

And for those with power of attourney granted, where there the mental capacity to decide has gone, because of dementia, or the myriad reasons, a group, similar to a jury, to decide on their behalf."

My mum died from this horrible type of cancer, and i wouldnt wish on anyone the pain and suffering i had to watch my mum in, im all for a dignified death

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By *orksRockerMan over a year ago

Bradford

"Yes, I think end-of-life care in this country is terribly flawed.

Having watched my father die, painfully, in 2017, from pancreatic cancer, I wouldn't do that to my dog.

In fact we don't.

We give them the dignity of a peaceful end, before things like that can ravage them.

There should definitely be an option for those with a terminal diagnosis to have a discussion and a release, because thats what it is. From a terrible death.

And for those with power of attourney granted, where there the mental capacity to decide has gone, because of dementia, or the myriad reasons, a group, similar to a jury, to decide on their behalf.

My mum died from this horrible type of cancer, and i wouldnt wish on anyone the pain and suffering i had to watch my mum in, im all for a dignified death

As did my father when I was 16. He had stomach cancer and it cut him down to 5 stone. We did palliative care at home as mum wanted him with family around him. Any memory is of him in pain ravaged by Cancer and not of the happy times before.

I agree with others that though it's a moral minefield, especially as it can be abused, it's not helpful to those going through it and alternative 'care' would be a step in the right direction

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"Just my view regarding terminal, ( I am not talking disability or mental issues, simply the medical diagnosis and description of 'Terminal').

I lost my wife 7 years ago to pancreatic cancer. She was 46 years of age and left behind our two beautiful girls then aged 11 and 16.

I was her carer 24/7 and the torture of her journey was almost too much to take. This terrible disease took her dignity and ravaged her for 5 months beginning to end.

My late wife was an intelligent (NHS nurse), and was in total control of her facilities. I , however could not bring myself to do what she begged and pleaded me to.

Absolutely not your fault in any respect.Caring for someone in that situation 24/7 right to the end is hardly cowardice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolutely. My grandad suffered a major stroke, which left him in a vegetative state. He asked me to “help him”, it still haunts me to this day that I couldn’t.

Unfortunately we are at such a stage whereas prolonging life isn’t always the best option, it may seem that way at the time, but the suffering and pain that some endure, is felt by those left behind for many many years.

I honestly believe that there should be help available for them with full capacity to make that decision. We basically deprive people of their liberty to make that choice.

Throughout my career I have held numerous hands as they’ve suffered with terminal illness, as they’ve begged to be out of pain, it’s torturous and mentally draining, but nowhere near the torture that we force some to endure.

Mrs

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By *dventurous biMan over a year ago

tesside

This is such an emotional topic. I lost both my parents to cancer, thankfully neither went through a prolonged period of being incapacitated by it. Had they been in pain and had they asked me to do something I’d like to think that I could have helped them on their way. But that’s a hypothetical question and ‘I’d like to think’ is diametrically opposed to what I know I would have done in reality.

The truth is that euthanasia to end suffering is a bit like communism, or benevolent dictatorship, great as a theory but impossible to put into practice.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Just my view regarding terminal, ( I am not talking disability or mental issues, simply the medical diagnosis and description of 'Terminal').

I lost my wife 7 years ago to pancreatic cancer. She was 46 years of age and left behind our two beautiful girls then aged 11 and 16.

I was her carer 24/7 and the torture of her journey was almost too much to take. This terrible disease took her dignity and ravaged her for 5 months beginning to end.

My late wife was an intelligent (NHS nurse), and was in total control of her facilities. I , however could not bring myself to do what she begged and pleaded me to.

Very much agree with this.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I know my Dad doesn't want to exist when his dementia advances to the point he can't look after himself and doesn't know anyone, but already, he usually lacks capacity to make medical decisions. Heaven knows how a euthanasia law could be applied reasonably to people in his position.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Definitely should be allowed, to give someone a dignified way to leave the world, when they want to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I worry that any change to loosen rules here on Euthanasia might mean we are heading towards Canada's terrifying laws. But I'm not sure I know how I'd feel about it for me or a loved one until faced with the situation.

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

From what I have seen from the direction the UK is moving in, I would have my reservations. The safeguards would have to be triple locked with zero political input.

Also Polly's points made earlier in the post are very relevant

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man over a year ago

BRIDPORT

If you allowed a pet to suffer the way we make people suffer you would be prosecuted for causing unnecessary harm and suffering, I think that says it all.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"If you allowed a pet to suffer the way we make people suffer you would be prosecuted for causing unnecessary harm and suffering, I think that says it all. "

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"I know my Dad doesn't want to exist when his dementia advances to the point he can't look after himself and doesn't know anyone, but already, he usually lacks capacity to make medical decisions. Heaven knows how a euthanasia law could be applied reasonably to people in his position. "

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I think unless you've faced the reality you can't possibly understand the far reaching and long term psychological impact of a loved one asking for assisted death. It's very easy to say what you would do for others or want for yourself in the cold light of an ordinary day.

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By *ean counterMan over a year ago

Market Harborough / Kettering

It's a horrible subject and a very difficult one. After loosing several family members to cancer over the years and watching them basically die in pain whilst still mentally sound is a terrible thing for anyone to experience and given the choice I'm sure all of them would have chosen a quick injection. On the flip side I have family members who have dementia which is horrible especially when they don't know their own children but they are definitely not in a state of mind to make that decision themselves.

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By *ruceyyMan over a year ago

London

It's honestly the one subject I can think of that I don't have a definitive answer to.

For the most part and ultimately with my gut, yes it should be allowed. But I feel so muchfor any families that have their loved one say it's what they want to go ahead and do. It must be heartbreaking.

But ultimately I know if I wanted to die for whatever reason, I'd want it in the purest form of going to sleep as much as possible.

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well."

In my experience siblings can't agree on which agent to use to sell the house let alone if granma should be offed.

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By *adyJayneWoman over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"No attempt to write "your law" and no answer to the question about what you have done to further your cause. Just a patronising lazy "dismissal". Says it all."

And here is exactly why there is a large number of the disability community who don't want euthanasia legalised in the UK.

Your answer to the problem is to tell those with disabilities to lobby and advocate for themselves. Those of us who already face barriers in our every day lives... I can't get to the shop without it taking twice as much effort and more planning that a small holiday (ok so that is an exaggeration but I'm certainly not able to nip to the shop as I could before I was disabled).

The problem with this debate is where to draw the line... You clearly believe that where you would draw the line is fine for you - the rest of us can fight it out amongst ourselves...

"A law for wheelchair users is for you to write, you are putting yourself forward as the expert in your tangent, so go ahead write it. By the way just out of interest, how many campaigns, demonstrations, lobbying letters etc have you been engaged in to bring about the changes you want to see? What have YOU done to raise awareness and bring about change?"

What about those who can't campaign, lobby or try to get their voices heard? You've already been patronising and dismissive to Mrs KC and she's more than capable of speaking up for herself and still you try to dismiss her.

Without those of us who are able to speak up being heard - and those able-bodied, advantaged people making the laws hearing us, we are yet again at a disadvantage due to lack of access/support/acceptance... Or just downright selfishness...

Much like pride or even feminism... We need able bodied allies. Not to talk over us, tell us we are wrong or _helpfully_ tell us that we should shout louder...

We need allies to elevate our voices, listen to us when we share our life experiences, believe us when we tell you the challenges we face, but most of all we need allies to fight out corner because most of the time we are too god damn exhausted just trying to exist in a world that it is made for the able bodied.

(and no having become disabled - I wouldn't choose euthanasia... Yeah life is a far cray from what I had planned for my life, it's different, yeah it's harder - but it's still full of love, joy and fulfilment. My ability to walk was diminished, not my sense of humour/fun/style *delete as appropriate.)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

100% I have early onset dementia recently diagnosed there is no way when not if it advances I want to be a burden on my children,and end up in a care environment so I will sort it myself or if possible travel to Austria

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man over a year ago

BRIDPORT

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well."

The views of the siblings shouldn’t be relevant, if the person has made a previous declaration when of sound mind.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

In my experience siblings can't agree on which agent to use to sell the house let alone if granma should be offed.

Exactly. Current laws on marriage, will making and PoA don't properly safeguard vulnerable adults. Adding a potential option to snuff out your relative is potentially open to so much abuse. I don't think reasonable people (let's assume everyone here is reasonable) could understand that there ARE people who might have PoA who WOULD be happy to euthanise their mother or father because they want to inherit money or because they don't want to or can't provide care.

I believe my mother would definitely have euthanised my grandfather if she could have. Fortunately he was sensible and changed his PoA from her to me.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

The views of the siblings shouldn’t be relevant, if the person has made a previous declaration when of sound mind. "

How can a declaration made many years before, be applied? What's the cut off for when euthanasia kicks in? How does one measure quality of life etc?

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By *entle_lover_xMan over a year ago

Great Dunmow

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

In my experience siblings can't agree on which agent to use to sell the house let alone if granma should be offed.

Shouldn't laugh on this topic but

I think this is the problem. A huge number of people generally think it's a good idea and many black and white cases but it's all the grey cases and coming up with legal drafting and a system that can't be exploited or used in a way not intended. The devil is in the detail. I think it is Canada where there has been "slippage" over time as to what is possible as interpretation of the laws has become more loose.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

In my experience siblings can't agree on which agent to use to sell the house let alone if granma should be offed.

Shouldn't laugh on this topic but

I think a little levity is fine

I think until you come face to face with the reality of this it is all black and white. I don't think many people can put themselves in the position that some have faced. Saying you know what you would do is very different to what you actually would do.

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

In my experience siblings can't agree on which agent to use to sell the house let alone if granma should be offed.

Shouldn't laugh on this topic but

I think a little levity is fine

A smile can make the hardest conversations easier. The subject is all shades of grey. With the usual exceptions it's been a good discussion.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man over a year ago

BRIDPORT

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

The views of the siblings shouldn’t be relevant, if the person has made a previous declaration when of sound mind.

How can a declaration made many years before, be applied? What's the cut off for when euthanasia kicks in? How does one measure quality of life etc? "

These are all pertinent questions but none that can’t addressed with a willingness to do so.

Making a declaration many years before is the easiest to address, just like a will it is always good practice to revisit on a regular basis and keep updated then the question of it being ‘years before’ doesn’t exist.

Nothing will be fool proof or totally abuse free, does this mean we simply don’t address it.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I don't think it could. The decision would need to be passed to nok or medical professionals and I wouldn't place that burden on my worst enemy.

And this is where things get difficult very quickly. Imagine two siblings with differing views and a possible financial incentive as well.

The views of the siblings shouldn’t be relevant, if the person has made a previous declaration when of sound mind.

How can a declaration made many years before, be applied? What's the cut off for when euthanasia kicks in? How does one measure quality of life etc?

These are all pertinent questions but none that can’t addressed with a willingness to do so.

Nothing will be fool proof or totally abuse free, does this mean we simply don’t address it. "

I'm not suggesting we don't address things. Quite the opposite. I'm asking the difficult questions and playing devil's advocate because I think a lot of people jump to "it should be my right to X" but don't think of the potential wider consequences.

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By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

I take it you have an LPA ?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I take it you have an LPA ?"

Yes. For both health/welfare and finance. Though the finance one had to be signed during COVID times and it took over a year to finalise, during which time his diagnosis of dementia was formalised.

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By *ai24Man over a year ago

Hull

100% agree with this, from my experience people who are determined to do it will find a way and not always the most effective or pleasant for people/family members to find.

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By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

I take it you have an LPA ?

Yes. For both health/welfare and finance. Though the finance one had to be signed during COVID times and it took over a year to finalise, during which time his diagnosis of dementia was formalised. "

He still has capacity?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I take it you have an LPA ?

Yes. For both health/welfare and finance. Though the finance one had to be signed during COVID times and it took over a year to finalise, during which time his diagnosis of dementia was formalised.

He still has capacity?"

Now, it varies. Sometimes the pros say he does, sometimes not. I think not anymore. He told me the other day that he couldn't remember my phone number (he was speaking to me on the phone) and was therefore phoning me from the digital radio in his bedroom. That's his typical level of confusion now.

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By *r-8-BBC OP Man over a year ago

LONDON

I take it you have an LPA ?

Yes. For both health/welfare and finance. Though the finance one had to be signed during COVID times and it took over a year to finalise, during which time his diagnosis of dementia was formalised.

He still has capacity?

Just like my mum. I've noticed the other day she has to tilt her head back to swallow. Don't know if it's the dementia.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I take it you have an LPA ?

Yes. For both health/welfare and finance. Though the finance one had to be signed during COVID times and it took over a year to finalise, during which time his diagnosis of dementia was formalised.

He still has capacity?

Just like my mum. I've noticed the other day she has to tilt her head back to swallow. Don't know if it's the dementia."

Dementia can affect things like chewing and swallowing reflexes, yes. Dad forgets to eat when it's in front of him and same with drinks and yes, sometimes struggles to swallow. It's very hard to deal with.

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

"No attempt to write "your law" and no answer to the question about what you have done to further your cause. Just a patronising lazy "dismissal". Says it all.

And here is exactly why there is a large number of the disability community who don't want euthanasia legalised in the UK.

The problem with this debate is where to draw the line... You clearly believe that where you would draw the line is fine for you - the rest of us can fight it out amongst ourselves...

A law for wheelchair users is for you to write, you are putting yourself forward as the expert in your tangent, so go ahead write it. By the way just out of interest, how many campaigns, demonstrations, lobbying letters etc have you been engaged in to bring about the changes you want to see? What have YOU done to raise awareness and bring about change?

Much like pride or even feminism... We need able bodied allies. Not to talk over us, tell us we are wrong or _helpfully_ tell us that we should shout louder...

I haven't told anyone to fight for themselves.I haven't been dismissive, I asked what the poster had done themselves to further their cause,answer came there none.If you do nothing it's 100% guaranteed nothing will change.I suggested KC gave her idea of a legal text/framework,no answer and I'm accused of being dismissive.The original post of this thread was 'terminal illness' nothing else,KC took it down the rabbit hole of what if this what if that with born or acquired disability/mental capacity.Dying in pain with no quality of life or dignity is not in the same league as having a good quality of life that you are happy with in a wheelchair,however much you struggle.Before any more misinterpretations or "assumed" accusations come my way,I have two friends and one customer who are wheelchair users.

A few years back I helped one of those friends and others fundraising and doing earthworks/groundworks to give disabled anglers access (and anyone else) to a large pond.We did the same again six more times for our angling clubs waters.Not relevant on the face of it,but hopefully it will stop the next barrage of accusations that I don't know or understand anything about wheelchair users.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

".Dying in pain with no quality of life or dignity is not in the same league as having a good quality of life that you are happy with in a wheelchair,however much you struggle."

My questions are not about those who have a good quality of life with their disability. My question is about those disabled people, disabled from birth who might NOT want to exist in their state of constant disability. How could they come to end their lives and exercise choice? That's been my question all along. Everyone has assumed (ASSuME) that disability/illness only happens at a later point in life and people will have had an opportunity to express a preference, write a living will or whatever. But lots of people are disabled from Day 1 and might never meet the criteria to give informed consent.

Read my lengthy post from last night about what might happen to those profoundly disabled people in a world where some newly-disabled might choose euthanasia. How will the remaining disabled people be supported? Will the already-limited care system acquire more capacity or will it disappear more? Will Society look down even more on the remaining disabled people, who have the ongoing audacity to persist in their state that requires tax payer's money to be spent on them for life. Disabled people are at massively increased risk of abuse by carers - will carers try to apply euthanasia upon their disabled charges simply to get rid of them?

So many questions, potential pitfalls yet able bodied people can't see past the end of their noses half the time.

And I don't know how you can be so bold as to say that living with a lifelong disability is nothing like dying in pain with no quality of life, because that's exactly how many disabled people exist - in constant pain, with zero dignity because they rely on carers for toileting, feeding etc and often, they die earlier than average and yes, in plenty of pain.

It's exactly the same.

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By *otSoPoshWoman over a year ago

In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon

Yes. I do believe it should be legal in the UK.

There are a hell of a lot of personal reasons for my belief, I'm nor sharing them all.

But I will say... suicide doesn't always work, if you don't have mobility or dexterity it is damn near impossible. And the results of a failure are fucking painful for everyone.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Oaps should be shot at birth

I agree Wonko ..... put this blindfold on and put your fingers in your ears. Or up your arse it won't matter shortly

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"If you’re terminally ill then yes! You should be given the choice to end your life before your riddled with pain. "

What if you are not terminally ill but alive and living with pain, no dignity, unable to walk or be independent, being washed, soiling yourself , being fed, not socialising, just sat - just sat staring and thinking and wishing and thinking until hope gives way to resignation and death would be a merciful release ?

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By *ndycoinsMan over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

".Dying in pain with no quality of life or dignity is not in the same league as having a good quality of life that you are happy with in a wheelchair,however much you struggle.

So many questions, potential pitfalls yet able bodied people can't see past the end of their noses half the time.

It's exactly the same. "

I was comparing dying in pain with those living pain free in a wheelchair(my friends and customer),the post spoke of a quality of life the sufferer is happy with,it was a direct reply to someone who spoke of been able to get out and about,not needing carers for anything.laughable you talk about reading when you still don't get it the op is terminal illness not the rabbit hole you have gone down,the sufferers decision not carers killing off their patients.As predicted you have sailed past the comments I made about disabled friends etc,so you can have the arrogance to brand me as one of those unable to see past the end of my nose.

If you don't like my posts,scroll past,move on,instead of deliberately misunderstanding/misinterpreting twisting,turning,subverting,diverting and making baseless accusations and assumptions(ASSuMEas you put it) in order to provoke an argument so you can display you're presumed intellectual superiority like cheap gaudy jewellery.You have done this in other threads with my posts.If looking for arguments in forums is your hobby,crack on without me.Its boring,very very boring.Stop engaging with me in the forums.End of correspondence.

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By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

Yes it should be allowed here, nobody should have to suffer

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"If you’re terminally ill then yes! You should be given the choice to end your life before your riddled with pain.

I don't think most people have ever considered this, Granny, because such people are most often hidden from society, stuck at home or in a care facility.

Apparently questions about such things should not be asked.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it already exists. I lost 2 grandparents under the same circumstances. Long illness and very uncomfortable. The doctor wanted to see them alone so sent us out of the room and then asked us to go back because it wouldn't be much longer and they passed away within the hour. I'm not saying that the doctor did something but maybe just upped the dose of painkillers and away they went. Strange that it happened in very similar circumstances.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"I think it already exists. I lost 2 grandparents under the same circumstances. Long illness and very uncomfortable. The doctor wanted to see them alone so sent us out of the room and then asked us to go back because it wouldn't be much longer and they passed away within the hour. I'm not saying that the doctor did something but maybe just upped the dose of painkillers and away they went. Strange that it happened in very similar circumstances."

Doctors cannot act to hasten death by administering doses of medication etc. That would be euthanasia and we don't allow it at present. We are allowed to do things like not resuscitate or abide by the wishes of people not to receive treatment (which might hasten death).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am at conflict with the idea of euthanasia, I've worked in palliative care, and with people on end of life pathway. I know these are not the same thing, but I think it's a very difficult topic but absolutely needs discussed, but really not sure what the answer is, I don't know enough about processes in the countries, all I know is that even with palliative/end of life care in this country (for obvious reasons) that there are strict rules on medications given when people are in clear discomfort and have personally felt so conflicted as to what to do at the time.

I remember reading, possibly during height of pandemic, that parents were being offered DNACRs to parents of children with certain disabilities which made me very uneasy.

I have my own biases of course, and have tried to think of whether I agree or not, but I'm quite unsure.

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS over a year ago

Carlisle

"Yes it should be allowed here, nobody should have to suffer "

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"I am at conflict with the idea of euthanasia, I've worked in palliative care, and with people on end of life pathway. I know these are not the same thing, but I think it's a very difficult topic but absolutely needs discussed, but really not sure what the answer is, I don't know enough about processes in the countries, all I know is that even with palliative/end of life care in this country (for obvious reasons) that there are strict rules on medications given when people are in clear discomfort and have personally felt so conflicted as to what to do at the time.

I remember reading, possibly during height of pandemic, that parents were being offered DNACRs to parents of children with certain disabilities which made me very uneasy.

I have my own biases of course, and have tried to think of whether I agree or not, but I'm quite unsure."

My exwife and I were terrified during covid because we are worried about the possibility of a DNR on our children

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I remember reading, possibly during height of pandemic, that parents were being offered DNACRs to parents of children with certain disabilities which made me very uneasy.

I have my own biases of course, and have tried to think of whether I agree or not, but I'm quite unsure.

My exwife and I were terrified during covid because we are worried about the possibility of a DNR on our children"

I'm not sure it was automatically rolled out, and I'm also unsure if it was every county, and parents had to give consent, just as consent has to be given for adults. Obviously for some adults, it would come down to best of interest depending on capacity but even then it makes me a little uneasy.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"If you’re terminally ill then yes! You should be given the choice to end your life before your riddled with pain.

I don't think most people have ever considered this, Granny, because such people are most often hidden from society, stuck at home or in a care facility.

Apparently questions about such things should not be asked. "

Of course they should be asked. My daughter is heading toward being 'locked in' eventually and has been feeling the progressive disease she has, taking her slowly bit by bit day by day month by month. I have promised I will help when help is needed and I will help whether it is legal or not.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"If you’re terminally ill then yes! You should be given the choice to end your life before your riddled with pain.

I don't think most people have ever considered this, Granny, because such people are most often hidden from society, stuck at home or in a care facility.

Apparently questions about such things should not be asked.

I agree they should be asked, Granny. I was responding that way due to comments from other posters who seem to think discussion about those with long term/lifelong/progressive disabilities is going off at a tangent, that's all.

We hope your daughter is able to cope at present, and the same for you and other family members. We hope you all have support to cope with whatever is happening too. We understand how you and your daughter must feel about the situation.

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By *rchitectMan over a year ago

Dorchester

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?"

My mum was 82 when she died and it took 8 weeks from when I got called to the hospital. They said she probably wouldn’t survive the week and the next 8 weeks were hell. In the end she couldn’t even talk.Nobody should be put through that.

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS over a year ago

Carlisle

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS over a year ago

Carlisle

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

Is this why we have these conversations? There's a line for a song 'no one dies with dignity' Isn't that what we would like? To leave the world with dignity. Do we have high expectations for ourselves?"
Dying with dignity not suffering not sure why someone would be unsure of that. Letting someone suffer in pain is not humane, You wouldn't do it to a dog or animal.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Having sat with both of my wonderful parents as they wasted before my eyes with terminal cancer, their independence, zest, dignity, whit, will and physical capacity eeking away; I was struck with the urge to take matters into my own hands just to alleviate their pain and suffering. Of course I didn’t, but the feeling was there.

I miss them both with all of my heart and soul every single day, but yes, I strongly advocate for elected assisted dying where appropriate.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple over a year ago

Leeds

I'm totally for it, why can't we make the decision when we are done, I've seen people suffer and just want it to end it's an awful thing to witness, I know it's hardly comparable but we put animals to sleep to stop them suffering but we as humans can't have that right it seems wrong.

People shouldn't have to resort to going abroad to do this.

Mrs

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

"Yes, and I don't think it should be restricted to people who are terminally ill either.

Can you explain please ?

Is this why we have these conversations? There's a line for a song 'no one dies with dignity' Isn't that what we would like? To leave the world with dignity. Do we have high expectations for ourselves? Dying with dignity not suffering not sure why someone would be unsure of that. Letting someone suffer in pain is not humane, You wouldn't do it to a dog or animal. "

Humans don't see themselves on a par with other animals. So it's not a fair comparison

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