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Crochet people
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As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!  |
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"I've made bags, using macrame yarn, I'm currently making a spring/summer jumper. I can't read patterns  so I muddle through, occasionally redoing bits but so far I'm really happy with it"
That's great! I have loads of books but my most recent stuff has been from YouTube videos |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
Completely misunderstood the thread from the title.
I thought you'd made 'crochet people'
I suppose they'd be an effective, warming sex doll for singles. But probably hard to clean afterwards and might shrink on a hot wash.
A |
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"Completely misunderstood the thread from the title.
I thought you'd made 'crochet people'
I suppose they'd be an effective, warming sex doll for singles. But probably hard to clean afterwards and might shrink on a hot wash.
A"
 . I'm missing a trick here.
If anyone wants me I'll be applying for Dragon's Den |
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"Can I commission a nice new scarf please. It should be straighforward and plenty of time to complete before autumn/winter is upon us 
. Colour? "
Can I have it in striped dark navy and sky blue please. The sky blue will provide just the right accentuation. Thanks  |
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"I've made bags, using macrame yarn, I'm currently making a spring/summer jumper. I can't read patterns so I muddle through, occasionally redoing bits but so far I'm really happy with it
That's great! I have loads of books but my most recent stuff has been from YouTube videos "
I do love a good video! It makes things so much easier to learn than trying to decipher a written pattern, especially as each country seems to have their own codes and even the description of stitches differ |
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I have made scarves and a poncho and lots of bags. I'm still slogging my way through the Persian Tiles blanket in the Eastern Jewels colourway though. Maybe I should make some clothes to give me new enthusiasm
J |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38! "
Pretty sure that crochet can't be recreated by machine, so depending on how long it took to make and what they actually paid per piece to be produced £38 might not be such an unreasonable price |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38! "
Interesting my lady I'm just imageing you in white crochet mini dress .like I once on young woman at a party in the 70s. |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Interesting my lady I'm just imageing you in white crochet mini dress .like I once on young woman at a party in the 70s."
Was it Abigail's party? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I love and have crocheted all sorts of items but with regards to clothing.. only children’s jumpers / hoodies etc
You can shape better clothing with knitting I think, crochet is more bulky "
I agree! |
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I love to crochet! I've made a few clothing items over the years, but nowadays specialise in crochet jewellery, earrings, necklaces,etc. I also make face and body care items like wash cloths, face scrubbies, etc. Seems to be quite popular what with people going for sustainable, washable items. I seem quite a few, a little bit of holiday spending money here and there. |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Interesting my lady I'm just imageing you in white crochet mini dress .like I once on young woman at a party in the 70s.
Was it Abigail's party? "
No it was my mates michael party
First party I'd been to and there she a vision much like our dear moderator . |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Pretty sure that crochet can't be recreated by machine, so depending on how long it took to make and what they actually paid per piece to be produced £38 might not be such an unreasonable price "
It actually sounds quite cheap to me, I'd imagine it'd take a few hours to make so at £38 there'd be little profit after labour and materials cost. I'm guessing they're not sourced from the UK if they're handmade at that price. |
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"I've made bags, using macrame yarn, I'm currently making a spring/summer jumper. I can't read patterns so I muddle through, occasionally redoing bits but so far I'm really happy with it
That's great! I have loads of books but my most recent stuff has been from YouTube videos
I do love a good video! It makes things so much easier to learn than trying to decipher a written pattern, especially as each country seems to have their own codes and even the description of stitches differ "
My only complaint about videos is that they're a bit slow |
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"I have made scarves and a poncho and lots of bags. I'm still slogging my way through the Persian Tiles blanket in the Eastern Jewels colourway though. Maybe I should make some clothes to give me new enthusiasm
J"
I admire you for doing the Persian Tiles blanket. I've looked at it but it's all the colour changes that put me off |
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"Can I commission a nice new scarf please. It should be straighforward and plenty of time to complete before autumn/winter is upon us
. Colour?
Can I have it in striped dark navy and sky blue please. The sky blue will provide just the right accentuation. Thanks "
Customer serbice seens yo be lacking a bit, still waiting for confirmation of my order |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Pretty sure that crochet can't be recreated by machine, so depending on how long it took to make and what they actually paid per piece to be produced £38 might not be such an unreasonable price "
I agree it's not an unreasonable price and I doubt the people who made them see much of the £38. It shocked me to see something that I could probably make quite easily for sale for so much |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Interesting my lady I'm just imageing you in white crochet mini dress .like I once on young woman at a party in the 70s."
They're very much back in fashion now. |
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"Mrs NC...I envy your crochet skills. I can't do it at all. And last time I tried I injured myself twice  "
I tried to teach my friend. She was so tense I couldn't get the stitches off the hook they were so tight.
I hope your crochet related injuries weren't too serious |
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"I love to crochet! I've made a few clothing items over the years, but nowadays specialise in crochet jewellery, earrings, necklaces,etc. I also make face and body care items like wash cloths, face scrubbies, etc. Seems to be quite popular what with people going for sustainable, washable items. I seem quite a few, a little bit of holiday spending money here and there. "
Excellent! |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"Mrs NC...I envy your crochet skills. I can't do it at all. And last time I tried I injured myself twice
I tried to teach my friend. She was so tense I couldn't get the stitches off the hook they were so tight.
I hope your crochet related injuries weren't too serious "
They weren't as bad as they could have been. Also not a surprise to the minor injuries place |
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"Can I commission a nice new scarf please. It should be straighforward and plenty of time to complete before autumn/winter is upon us
. Colour?
Can I have it in striped dark navy and sky blue please. The sky blue will provide just the right accentuation. Thanks
Customer serbice seens yo be lacking a bit, still waiting for confirmation of my order "
. Sorry about that, it must be lost in the post |
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"Mrs NC...I envy your crochet skills. I can't do it at all. And last time I tried I injured myself twice
I tried to teach my friend. She was so tense I couldn't get the stitches off the hook they were so tight.
I hope your crochet related injuries weren't too serious
They weren't as bad as they could have been. Also not a surprise to the minor injuries place "
you had to go to minor injuries!? for crochet injuries |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"Mrs NC...I envy your crochet skills. I can't do it at all. And last time I tried I injured myself twice
I tried to teach my friend. She was so tense I couldn't get the stitches off the hook they were so tight.
I hope your crochet related injuries weren't too serious
They weren't as bad as they could have been. Also not a surprise to the minor injuries place
you had to go to minor injuries!? for crochet injuries "
There are sharpish sticks involved. I'm very good at injuring myself with those |
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"I can't crochet or knit, but my son is a dab hand at it.
He tends to make crochet creatures rather than clothes, though I am tempted to request a top for hols.
Nita"
A lot of men are in to crochet. Get him to make you a festival top with fringes |
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"I can't crochet or knit, but my son is a dab hand at it.
He tends to make crochet creatures rather than clothes, though I am tempted to request a top for hols.
Nita
A lot of men are in to crochet. Get him to make you a festival top with fringes "
Maybe minus the fringes |
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"Mrs NC...I envy your crochet skills. I can't do it at all. And last time I tried I injured myself twice
I tried to teach my friend. She was so tense I couldn't get the stitches off the hook they were so tight.
I hope your crochet related injuries weren't too serious
They weren't as bad as they could have been. Also not a surprise to the minor injuries place
you had to go to minor injuries!? for crochet injuries
There are sharpish sticks involved. I'm very good at injuring myself with those "
I'm impressed |
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"I can't crochet or knit, but my son is a dab hand at it.
He tends to make crochet creatures rather than clothes, though I am tempted to request a top for hols.
Nita
A lot of men are in to crochet. Get him to make you a festival top with fringes
Maybe minus the fringes "
I've made a couple minus the fringes, they're really nice. I'm going to make a couple of bralettes to wear under white shirts too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’m making a jumper atm, I was originally aiming for the Wednesday Addams chequered vest thingy but had so many hiccups it’s now black and white on the back and two shades of purple in the front, then I added a collar and now I’m adding sleeves
Does anyone else’s WIP’s evolve as you go? |
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"I can't crochet or knit, but my son is a dab hand at it.
He tends to make crochet creatures rather than clothes, though I am tempted to request a top for hols.
Nita
A lot of men are in to crochet. Get him to make you a festival top with fringes
Maybe minus the fringes
I've made a couple minus the fringes, they're really nice. I'm going to make a couple of bralettes to wear under white shirts too"
My boobs would probably escape from a crochet bralet... not a pretty sight
You've inspired me.... he's taking me out for lunch on Saturday, I might have to ask him to bring patterns. |
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"I’m making a jumper atm, I was originally aiming for the Wednesday Addams chequered vest thingy but had so many hiccups it’s now black and white on the back and two shades of purple in the front, then I added a collar and now I’m adding sleeves
Does anyone else’s WIP’s evolve as you go? "
Yes! I also think I know better than the pattern creator and go off piste...it never turns out well |
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"I can't crochet or knit, but my son is a dab hand at it.
He tends to make crochet creatures rather than clothes, though I am tempted to request a top for hols.
Nita
A lot of men are in to crochet. Get him to make you a festival top with fringes
Maybe minus the fringes
I've made a couple minus the fringes, they're really nice. I'm going to make a couple of bralettes to wear under white shirts too
My boobs would probably escape from a crochet bralet... not a pretty sight
You've inspired me.... he's taking me out for lunch on Saturday, I might have to ask him to bring patterns."
You crochet the cups of the bralette to fit. I was wary but I think they'll look really pretty under a shirt because you can add a lovely lacy trim |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m making a jumper atm, I was originally aiming for the Wednesday Addams chequered vest thingy but had so many hiccups it’s now black and white on the back and two shades of purple in the front, then I added a collar and now I’m adding sleeves
Does anyone else’s WIP’s evolve as you go?
Yes! I also think I know better than the pattern creator and go off piste...it never turns out well"
So much the same! I made a floor length coat and it’s too long, it needs a taller owner lol it was only supposed to be calf length  |
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By * F 2018Couple
over a year ago
shropshire |
"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38! "
Wish I could...there's some lovely things to make |
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"I can't crochet or knit, but my son is a dab hand at it.
He tends to make crochet creatures rather than clothes, though I am tempted to request a top for hols.
Nita
A lot of men are in to crochet. Get him to make you a festival top with fringes
Maybe minus the fringes
I've made a couple minus the fringes, they're really nice. I'm going to make a couple of bralettes to wear under white shirts too
My boobs would probably escape from a crochet bralet... not a pretty sight
You've inspired me.... he's taking me out for lunch on Saturday, I might have to ask him to bring patterns.
You crochet the cups of the bralette to fit. I was wary but I think they'll look really pretty under a shirt because you can add a lovely lacy trim "
That sounds lovely actually. But not for me, I'm too pale to wear white. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Wish I could...there's some lovely things to make"
Honestly it’s easy once you get the basic stitch and there are tonnes of tutorials online |
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"I’m making a jumper atm, I was originally aiming for the Wednesday Addams chequered vest thingy but had so many hiccups it’s now black and white on the back and two shades of purple in the front, then I added a collar and now I’m adding sleeves
Does anyone else’s WIP’s evolve as you go?
Yes! I also think I know better than the pattern creator and go off piste...it never turns out well
So much the same! I made a floor length coat and it’s too long, it needs a taller owner lol it was only supposed to be calf length "
Can you unpick a couple of inches from the hem up? |
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"As crochet is au courant how many of you have made things to wear?
I have made two tops and plan to replicate a crochet handbag I recently saw. When I say replicate I mean try and come up with something vaguely resembling a handbag.
I saw crochet tote bag in M and S the other day. £38!
Wish I could...there's some lovely things to make"
Some people can never get the hang of it. A bit like me and algebra |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m making a jumper atm, I was originally aiming for the Wednesday Addams chequered vest thingy but had so many hiccups it’s now black and white on the back and two shades of purple in the front, then I added a collar and now I’m adding sleeves
Does anyone else’s WIP’s evolve as you go?
Yes! I also think I know better than the pattern creator and go off piste...it never turns out well
So much the same! I made a floor length coat and it’s too long, it needs a taller owner lol it was only supposed to be calf length
Can you unpick a couple of inches from the hem up?"
I made the edging to pass around the whole thing so can’t without frogging about half the coat first unfortunately |
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"I’m making a jumper atm, I was originally aiming for the Wednesday Addams chequered vest thingy but had so many hiccups it’s now black and white on the back and two shades of purple in the front, then I added a collar and now I’m adding sleeves
Does anyone else’s WIP’s evolve as you go?
Yes! I also think I know better than the pattern creator and go off piste...it never turns out well
So much the same! I made a floor length coat and it’s too long, it needs a taller owner lol it was only supposed to be calf length
Can you unpick a couple of inches from the hem up?
I made the edging to pass around the whole thing so can’t without frogging about half the coat first unfortunately "
Damn! |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite "
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets "
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet? |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet? "
No, but tempted. |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet? "
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
No, but tempted. "
It's not me and I'm not that bad...yet. |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style "
It was the hight of fashion back them..Mark my words, it's coming nack sometime |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style "
My great aunt had one of those. Very coy |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style "
They were pretty common when I was younger |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style
It was the hight of fashion back them..Mark my words, it's coming nack sometime "
People will claim it's ironic |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style
My great aunt had one of those. Very coy "
It was in the "little toilet", the one without a light that you had to just know your way to and from at nighttime |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style
My great aunt had one of those. Very coy
It was in the "little toilet", the one without a light that you had to just know your way to and from at nighttime "
. My grandmother had a fire screen embroidered with a woman dressed in a crinoline in a garden. I loved it as a child and have loved embroidery ever since. |
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I will be talking to John Lewis and see if interested to bring a range of those up. If they agree, I will be looking for workers for the production factory. I have earmarked a few from here already |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style
My great aunt had one of those. Very coy
It was in the "little toilet", the one without a light that you had to just know your way to and from at nighttime
. My grandmother had a fire screen embroidered with a woman dressed in a crinoline in a garden. I loved it as a child and have loved embroidery ever since. "
Bloody hell, my Grandparents had an embroidered fire screen too, but it was floral/birds. Memories  |
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"Did they not use to make crochet objects like baskets etc in the past and kind of 'ice' them or something to stiffen them up?
Yep. Swan doilies were a favourite
I remember going to a hotel once. It was full of the kind of stuff. Even the spare toilet roll was in one of those baskets
I'm not a fan of them myself.
Have you seen the woman on Gogglebox whose whole room is practically covered in crochet?
My Granny had a crochet-skirted doll thing that guarded a spare loo roll. The loo roll was in the crochet skirt bit and turned an A line into a big meringue type style
My great aunt had one of those. Very coy
It was in the "little toilet", the one without a light that you had to just know your way to and from at nighttime
. My grandmother had a fire screen embroidered with a woman dressed in a crinoline in a garden. I loved it as a child and have loved embroidery ever since.
Bloody hell, my Grandparents had an embroidered fire screen too, but it was floral/birds. Memories "
Happy days |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’ve mDe millions of crochet clothes
Jumpers, cardigans, hats, scarves, socks, along with blankets, bags "
Some even have the same length arms too!
Some.
Beautiful, talk to me, sell me! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’ve mDe millions of crochet clothes
Jumpers, cardigans, hats, scarves, socks, along with blankets, bags
Some even have the same length arms too!
Some.
Beautiful, talk to me, sell me!"
They do now shame it’s summer coz this one’s a right snuggly! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’ve mDe millions of crochet clothes
Jumpers, cardigans, hats, scarves, socks, along with blankets, bags
Some even have the same length arms too!
Some.
Beautiful, talk to me, sell me!
They do now shame it’s summer coz this one’s a right snuggly!"
Can't you do an aggressively large loop hoop pull yankidoodle to provide air flow.
Like ya mams old netted shopping bag. From the 80s.
Omg fishnet cardigans. The kink we didn't know we had! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Re crochet people
Google nudinits
Googled it. Looks really great. I'm not good at knitting, I wonder if there's a crochet equivent "
We could amigurumi those, I think I have a pattern for a human doll stashed away somewhere |
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"You do realise oh Duchess that I'm only bumping your erstwhile threads because I have designs for you, without your crotchety crochet camisoles...?  "
I suspected your motives might not be entirely philanthropic  |
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"Re crochet people
Google nudinits
Googled it. Looks really great. I'm not good at knitting, I wonder if there's a crochet equivent
We could amigurumi those, I think I have a pattern for a human doll stashed away somewhere "
I did try to convert knitting to crochet once with some success. I agree you could amigurumi them |
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"Crochet people on the forums are quite annoying.
Oh, no, hang on, that’s cliquey people.
I wouldn’t want to start a whole new conversation about them, would I.
Sorry, I’m back to my knitting….."
No you wouldn't want to start that conversation.
Are you a knitter? |
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» Add a new message to this topic
) as I'm messaging someone who's really into her crochet and she should find this post fun to follow 
