FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Should train drivers beable to strike?
Should train drivers beable to strike?
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"Of course they should have the right to strike. Everyone should have that right. There was an article by someone who had been very against the rail strikes who broke a leg or ankle. They then found out how much railway staff do to help people and why removing the Train Manager/Guard/Ticket Inspector from trains would be a bad idea. The same applied to replacing station staff with automated ticket machines." This seeks to be overlooked by most people. It is about pay and conditions, but it's also about cutting staff. If you are boarding a train at a smaller station and there's no ticket office staff or anyone on the platform, bad luck if you require assistance whether it's information, guidance or physical help to board the train. If there are no staff there, you are going to struggle. People need help and the staff need their jobs ! | |||
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"But they aren’t striking, its a ban on overtime isn’t it? If the rail services are reliant on overtime, its not a sustainable business model." That sounds suspiciously like placing blame on businesses rather than people, even when businesses aren't to blame. That's not allowed. The staff should make it work through personal responsibility  | |||
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"But they aren’t striking, its a ban on overtime isn’t it? If the rail services are reliant on overtime, it’s not a sustainable business model." ^^^…..and there it is!!! ^^^ I was holding my ticket before punching it too early! The debate isn’t about people’s right to strike, although globally this is considered a thing of the past; just ask any American furnace worker or docker (yes, I know they’re called different job titles in the States  )
Since Thatcher sold the railways it’s been unsustainable, train companies pulling million out in profits, bonuses and shareholder wealth whilst staff are asked to work overtime and rest days to make the system work.
It’s a question of outdated Trade Unionism and the basic facts of business; simple as that!
UK train fares are ridiculous, you need a PhD in Mathematics to work out how to obtain the best ticket, don’t get me started on “split tickets”, UK trains are filthy, late, outdated, the list goes on!
Semi renationalised business models work in Europe and Asia and Australasia just fine, you can time your watch by Japanese trains and let’s remember children; who invented and exported the concept of railways and look at where we are now!?!  | |||
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"These strikes are off the rails. Do they need more pay or extra training or what? They should conduct themselves better. And say thank you at least - that’s the ticket! " That is right, these strikes are off the rails too, it is always the commuters that will be affected by it. | |||
"But they aren’t striking, its a ban on overtime isn’t it? If the rail services are reliant on overtime, it’s not a sustainable business model. ^^^…..and there it is!!! ^^^ I was holding my ticket before punching it too early! The debate isn’t about people’s right to strike, although globally this is considered a thing of the past; just ask any American furnace worker or docker (yes, I know they’re called different job titles in the States )
Since Thatcher sold the railways it’s been unsustainable, train companies pulling million out in profits, bonuses and shareholder wealth whilst staff are asked to work overtime and rest days to make the system work.
It’s a question of outdated Trade Unionism and the basic facts of business; simple as that!
UK train fares are ridiculous, you need a PhD in Mathematics to work out how to obtain the best ticket, don’t get me started on “split tickets”, UK trains are filthy, late, outdated, the list goes on!
Semi renationalised business models work in Europe and Asia and Australasia just fine, you can time your watch by Japanese trains and let’s remember children; who invented and exported the concept of railways and look at where we are now!?! "Cheers for that. Other than the last paragraph I am ignorant to it all because I use the train about once a year, so will have a read up on it | |||
"I'm going to be, what some might consider, a little controversial by saying that, in my opinion, striking is, ultimately, counter productive. Whilst I have no issue with anyones RIGHT to strike, such action is ultimately targeted at the wrong people. It is the customers who suffer. Those customers, who, in the case of rail strikes, rely on these services to get to work, either have to take a days holiday or find alternative means of transport. If they choose the latter option, they may find such an alternative to be more reliable and, in turn, choose to switch to that means of transport permanently, thus impacting on the rail company in terms of loss of revenue. So, OK, now that is having an ompact on the rail workers employer. However, if enough customers do this, there is a significant downturn in revenue meaning that there is LESS money available to give the striking workers what it is that they're striking for - i.e. better pay. The fact that train drivers are already paid quite substantial salaries and are among the highest paid train drivers in Europe is perhaps irrelevant at this point. So the Train company then has to make cutbacks or put up their prices. People are already finding that rail travel is incredibly expensive, especially when compared to other forms of travel, so you find that increasing prices might result in further loss of customers. So perhaps someone can explain to me how such action is going to lead to the result the union is looking for. " Strikes won’t make a tap of difference! That’s why the train companies and government representatives won’t negotiate, Sunak is waiting to see if he wins the general, if not then it’s someone else’s problem, let’s see what Labour do with it, if Sunak wins the general then still no deal; he’ll starve them out is my guess akin to Thatcher and the miners! | |||
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"Did I not see or hear somewhere it's not the drivers that striking. It's the people like signal men and so on that trains can't run without that r striking so it means the trains can't run. Is it just the press as usual stirring things up?" It’s drivers, signallers and for a while it was maintenance although the latter did a deal early if memory serves me right! Surely there’s a few rail workers on Fab who can give us their inside views of pissing money down the drain on strike!?! | |||
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"Let’s be clear, this week is not a strike by the train drivers. I’m simply them saying that they’re not going to work extra days. Severs train operating companies rely heavily on their staff working in excess of their rostered days to maintain their full timetable. The fact that an amended timetable has been brought in as a result is testament to this." Darn autocorrect “ITS simply them saying” and “SEVERAL train operating companies” Again for those in the back, this week is not a strike , just not working overtime | |||
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"Let’s be clear, this week is not a strike by the train drivers. I’m simply them saying that they’re not going to work extra days. Severs train operating companies rely heavily on their staff working in excess of their rostered days to maintain their full timetable. The fact that an amended timetable has been brought in as a result is testament to this." yeah, but headlines. | |||
"No corpo or government boot lickers please. This country is absolutely screwed and it is not because of the poor trying desperately to keep a roof over our heads or the people coming here to live. Nor is it the gays or transgender people. The reason for a decline in services and standards, the causes of all this suffering is corpo ownership and government corruption. Plain and simple, so yes, strike. Everyone stay home, spend time with your families. Every single Billionaire (not currently in the bottom of the ocean) is wealthy because of you and your hard work. This country functions because of you not Richy rich or Liegel Farage. It is time we reminded the rich who got them there and how quickly it all falls apart if we stop contributing. " You make very valid points, however the capitalist society adopted by the UK many moons ago is long behind redemption! For sure, a rebalancing of the power/wealth dynamic is well overdue, unfortunately it’s a government that’s long past change, knows it’s heading for opposition and wants to keep those six or seven figure salary options open come the changing of the guard! A windfall tax on fuel and energy suppliers alone could pay for train system improvements in salary and service, but why bother when you’re headed for the Board of said energy company! Such is life, anyone for tennis darling  | |||
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"I've said it before and I'll say it again, I support everyone's right to strike. There's no reason why anyone in this country should be working in bad conditions or on a full time wage still struggling to keep up with the cost of living. I would never change that just because a strike caused minor disturbance for me. But that's the media's goal right? Turn everyone on each other so no one points the finger at the people who cause this mess in the first place. Good old Britain." You are right there and same here. I also support it. I think that the only sector that arent allowed to strike are the armed forces, which I think is unfair for them. | |||
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"No corpo or government boot lickers please. This country is absolutely screwed and it is not because of the poor trying desperately to keep a roof over our heads or the people coming here to live. Nor is it the gays or transgender people. The reason for a decline in services and standards, the causes of all this suffering is corpo ownership and government corruption. Plain and simple, so yes, strike. Everyone stay home, spend time with your families. Every single Billionaire (not currently in the bottom of the ocean) is wealthy because of you and your hard work. This country functions because of you not Richy rich or Liegel Farage. It is time we reminded the rich who got them there and how quickly it all falls apart if we stop contributing. You make very valid points, however the capitalist society adopted by the UK many moons ago is long behind redemption! For sure, a rebalancing of the power/wealth dynamic is well overdue, unfortunately it’s a government that’s long past change, knows it’s heading for opposition and wants to keep those six or seven figure salary options open come the changing of the guard! A windfall tax on fuel and energy suppliers alone could pay for train system improvements in salary and service, but why bother when you’re headed for the Board of said energy company! Such is life, anyone for tennis darling "A windfall tax will simply be passed on to the customer or be taken out of the inward investment budget | |||
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"I've said it before and I'll say it again, I support everyone's right to strike. There's no reason why anyone in this country should be working in bad conditions or on a full time wage still struggling to keep up with the cost of living. I would never change that just because a strike caused minor disturbance for me. But that's the media's goal right? Turn everyone on each other so no one points the finger at the people who cause this mess in the first place. Good old Britain.You are right there and same here. I also support it. I think that the only sector that arent allowed to strike are the armed forces, which I think is unfair for them." I was interested to know how much a soldier in the uk earns on average and it is £24,400 whilst a train driver in london earns £62,608 per year, so it is abit of a difference there. | |||
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"I do think they've overplayed the strike card though. The RMT or ASLEF or whatever seem to exist purely to organise strikes. They are striking because that is what they do. And people wouldn't mind so much if they ever made progress, but they don't." It takes two to tango though | |||
"I do think they've overplayed the strike card though. The RMT or ASLEF or whatever seem to exist purely to organise strikes. They are striking because that is what they do. And people wouldn't mind so much if they ever made progress, but they don't." The DFT are unwilling to engage in meaningful talks, and also unwilling to allow individual TOCS to negotiate with their staff. This is a failure of government. | |||
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"I honestly have never understood the process of going on strike. 1) As a employee, if you are unhappy about something at work, then you should be able to leave to find somewhere you are happy with. 2) As an employer, if your employee is unhappy about something at work, then they should be allowed to let them leave, or fire them. I really don't understand it. Both sides are obviously not happy during a strike, so why continue " We used to live in a country where people had options and could just walk out of one job into the next. The world isn't like that anymore and it's tough on the job market, also who can afford not to work these days. Employers are aware of this and take advantage. No one chooses to be unhappy in their jobs, a lot of people simply have no choice. | |||
"No, they are hijacking the country using public service. They can leave their job if they are not happy with the Pay. " And people can find other forms of transport and plan ahead accordingly. Works both ways. | |||
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"I've said it before and I'll say it again, I support everyone's right to strike. There's no reason why anyone in this country should be working in bad conditions or on a full time wage still struggling to keep up with the cost of living. I would never change that just because a strike caused minor disturbance for me. But that's the media's goal right? Turn everyone on each other so no one points the finger at the people who cause this mess in the first place. Good old Britain.You are right there and same here. I also support it. I think that the only sector that arent allowed to strike are the armed forces, which I think is unfair for them.I was interested to know how much a soldier in the uk earns on average and it is £24,400 whilst a train driver in london earns £62,608 per year, so it is abit of a difference there." And the roles are not comparable either. | |||
"Did I not see or hear somewhere it's not the drivers that striking. It's the people like signal men and so on that trains can't run without that r striking so it means the trains can't run. Is it just the press as usual stirring things up?" This strike is the train drivers, and its an overtime ban so drivers will only work their booked hours. | |||
"Unfortunately the rail operaters are looking to impose some changes that the rail unions are unhappy with. One is disposing with the guards, on the trains. Also down the line and with technology advancing as it is driverless trains. It's not just about the pay. " We will never see driverless mainline trains in our lifetime I can assure you of that. The government want to do away with ticket offices, guards on trains and leave stations unmanned. Most trains cannot run without a guard so I don't know how they think that will work! | |||
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"I've said it before and I'll say it again, I support everyone's right to strike. There's no reason why anyone in this country should be working in bad conditions or on a full time wage still struggling to keep up with the cost of living. I would never change that just because a strike caused minor disturbance for me. But that's the media's goal right? Turn everyone on each other so no one points the finger at the people who cause this mess in the first place. Good old Britain.You are right there and same here. I also support it. I think that the only sector that arent allowed to strike are the armed forces, which I think is unfair for them.I was interested to know how much a soldier in the uk earns on average and it is £24,400 whilst a train driver in london earns £62,608 per year, so it is abit of a difference there. And the roles are not comparable either. " That is right, it is not, although the difference is the right to strike, by comparison of the 2 roles on the public sector of it. | |||
"Right to strike is a fundamental right, it was fought for and a lot of blood was spilt in the process. It is a last resort, it is also a a democratic process as any strike needs to be voted for by the membership of the union. They days of shop stewards calling “All out” are long gone. To answer to the question of the state of UK railways is due to years of under investment in infrastructure and running stock. I have thankfully not been a computer for decades, however I once was and hated everyday of. Overcrowded, dirty, slow, and just downright annoying. It amazes me how for me to get 15 miles into central London costs the best part of £20. A couple of years ago I was in Rome €6 to travel on any public transport train, tram or bus for 3 days. Always got a seat clean quiet and easy. In the whole week I was there I used 2 Ubers and 1 taxi. Taxi from airport to hotel Uber back to hotel as I was a bit d*unk and Uber back to airport. As is the case with everything in this country, it is looking backwards to an age that no longer exists. " It's true, same with everything. Apparently Manchester airport was going to be amazing after all the work. Try and spot the difference, hardly any. Leeds/Bradford was just stopped all together. Roads repairs are the same, cheap temporary fixes that nobody bothers to even check and are back to the same within months if not weeks. No planning, no organisation, no investment. More importantly no pride vand care anymore and begore someone says it all needs money, it does but I don't believe that is the reason. They are just bad at what they do and don't care and have no pride. If other countries srou d us can have great transport and nice vomfortable airpots and better roads etc, so should we. Thats my rant, I am out  | |||
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