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Gender Neutral Toilets
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news" Great logic. Shutdown *every* possible avenue a sexual abuser can abuse someone. It is definitely the room/facility/organisation that is the reason, not the abuser. Lets start with churches, camps, scouts/guides, sport clubs, day-cares, hospitals, buses... pretty much society as it's been evolving since we created civilisation 
The highschool I (Mr) was at had a gender neutral facility in the 90s. It was not called that, it was just one of the multiple facilities around the school that was just not designated as as a specific gender because the end of that particular building only had one facility. As students we didn't give a hoot about it. All the cubicles at the school in all facilities had full separation and fully closing doors.
There has never been any sexual assault at the school related to the gender neutral but there have been issues with camera phones in the gender specific facilities. Maybe all the gendered facilities should be bricked over and portable loos brought instead. | |||
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"No no no no no no no- stick to the stuff you know. If you wanna be cool. Follow one simple rule. Don't mess with the flow- no no. Stick to the status quo. "  Crappest Musical ever....
No, the answer isn't to do away with the gender neutral toilets. In schools, the way forward is to not have communal toilets at all and replace them all with individual cubicles directly off the corridors.
Cal
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news Great logic. Shutdown *every* possible avenue a sexual abuser can abuse someone. It is definitely the room/facility/organisation that is the reason, not the abuser. Lets start with churches, camps, scouts/guides, sport clubs, day-cares, hospitals, buses... pretty much society as it's been evolving since we created civilisation
The highschool I (Mr) was at had a gender neutral facility in the 90s. It was not called that, it was just one of the multiple facilities around the school that was just not designated as as a specific gender because the end of that particular building only had one facility. As students we didn't give a hoot about it. All the cubicles at the school in all facilities had full separation and fully closing doors.
There has never been any sexual assault at the school related to the gender neutral but there have been issues with camera phones in the gender specific facilities. Maybe all the gendered facilities should be bricked over and portable loos brought instead."Shutting down every avenue an abuser/offender can use (or should that be abuse) is great logic,it's called prevention.If it was a shit idea the Police would advise leaving your doors and windows open and the keys in the ignition.As far as organisations go,if you had any dealings with the Church for example you would fully understand how abusers can operate and hide for so long,it doesn't need shutting down it needs operational reform and the balls from within to admit it. | |||
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"Serious sexual assaults,abuse of gender neutral spaces,subversion(a guy deciding he is a woman to have an easier time in a woman's nick), confused children,even more confused parents,a minefield for teachers(except for the new breed of wokists who have been indoctrinated at uni)etc don't matter to the woke brigade,the agenda is more important than the price." Oh dear | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news Great logic. Shutdown *every* possible avenue a sexual abuser can abuse someone. It is definitely the room/facility/organisation that is the reason, not the abuser. Lets start with churches, camps, scouts/guides, sport clubs, day-cares, hospitals, buses... pretty much society as it's been evolving since we created civilisation
The highschool I (Mr) was at had a gender neutral facility in the 90s. It was not called that, it was just one of the multiple facilities around the school that was just not designated as as a specific gender because the end of that particular building only had one facility. As students we didn't give a hoot about it. All the cubicles at the school in all facilities had full separation and fully closing doors.
There has never been any sexual assault at the school related to the gender neutral but there have been issues with camera phones in the gender specific facilities. Maybe all the gendered facilities should be bricked over and portable loos brought instead.
Shutting down every avenue an abuser/offender can use (or should that be abuse) is great logic,it's called prevention.If it was a shit idea the Police would advise leaving your doors and windows open and the keys in the ignition.As far as organisations go,if you had any dealings with the Church for example you would fully understand how abusers can operate and hide for so long,it doesn't need shutting down it needs operational reform and the balls from within to admit it."It's impossible to shut down every avenue an abuser can use.... | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news Great logic. Shutdown *every* possible avenue a sexual abuser can abuse someone. It is definitely the room/facility/organisation that is the reason, not the abuser. Lets start with churches, camps, scouts/guides, sport clubs, day-cares, hospitals, buses... pretty much society as it's been evolving since we created civilisation
The highschool I (Mr) was at had a gender neutral facility in the 90s. It was not called that, it was just one of the multiple facilities around the school that was just not designated as as a specific gender because the end of that particular building only had one facility. As students we didn't give a hoot about it. All the cubicles at the school in all facilities had full separation and fully closing doors.
There has never been any sexual assault at the school related to the gender neutral but there have been issues with camera phones in the gender specific facilities. Maybe all the gendered facilities should be bricked over and portable loos brought instead.
Shutting down every avenue an abuser/offender can use (or should that be abuse) is great logic,it's called prevention.If it was a shit idea the Police would advise leaving your doors and windows open and the keys in the ignition.As far as organisations go,if you had any dealings with the Church for example you would fully understand how abusers can operate and hide for so long,it doesn't need shutting down it needs operational reform and the balls from within to admit it.
It's impossible to shut down every avenue an abuser can use...."Never said it was | |||
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"I don't think there should be gender neutral toilets in schools only because young girls just getting their periods should be free to deal with that without boys around I started puberty early and was mortified at the thought of boys in my class knowing about it I think maybe having boys, girls and then separate unassigned toilets might be the answer? Gender neutral toilets don't bother me other wise as from what I've seen it's individual cubicles and then sinks out in the open/shared? However, if a boy/man is a predator he will he a predator, gender neutral toilets won't stop him. If this wasn't a thing in this particular school he would of found another way to do it" Not all predators are born with a penis (or identify as male). There are a lot of female (not trans) predators too. Unfortunately they come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, colours, genders, ages 
Having un-gendered facilities is not about doing away with gender specific, both are needed. Make the spaces safe and secure for everyone to grow and understand themselves. If someone is growing and evolving, unsure about who they are now or going to be and are forced to conform to one or another, that can cause a huge impact on their physical and mental health.
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"I don't think there should be gender neutral toilets in schools only because young girls just getting their periods should be free to deal with that without boys around I started puberty early and was mortified at the thought of boys in my class knowing about it I think maybe having boys, girls and then separate unassigned toilets might be the answer? Gender neutral toilets don't bother me other wise as from what I've seen it's individual cubicles and then sinks out in the open/shared? However, if a boy/man is a predator he will he a predator, gender neutral toilets won't stop him. If this wasn't a thing in this particular school he would of found another way to do it Not all predators are born with a penis (or identify as male). There are a lot of female (not trans) predators too. Unfortunately they come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, colours, genders, ages
Having un-gendered facilities is not about doing away with gender specific, both are needed. Make the spaces safe and secure for everyone to grow and understand themselves. If someone is growing and evolving, unsure about who they are now or going to be and are forced to conform to one or another, that can cause a huge impact on their physical and mental health.
"I never said all predators have penises...... | |||
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"If these gender neutral toilets have shared facilities, sinks, mirrors etc behind a separate closable door, they should be banned. Individual cubicles with sinks where the door opens on to a public area are ok. Bess x" Exactly my thoughts on it 
Mr | |||
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"Serious sexual assaults,abuse of gender neutral spaces,subversion(a guy deciding he is a woman to have an easier time in a woman's nick), confused children,even more confused parents,a minefield for teachers(except for the new breed of wokists who have been indoctrinated at uni)etc don't matter to the woke brigade,the agenda is more important than the price."  | |||
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"I don't think there should be gender neutral toilets in schools only because young girls just getting their periods should be free to deal with that without boys around I started puberty early and was mortified at the thought of boys in my class knowing about it I think maybe having boys, girls and then separate unassigned toilets might be the answer? Gender neutral toilets don't bother me other wise as from what I've seen it's individual cubicles and then sinks out in the open/shared? However, if a boy/man is a predator he will he a predator, gender neutral toilets won't stop him. If this wasn't a thing in this particular school he would of found another way to do it Not all predators are born with a penis (or identify as male). There are a lot of female (not trans) predators too. Unfortunately they come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, colours, genders, ages
Having un-gendered facilities is not about doing away with gender specific, both are needed. Make the spaces safe and secure for everyone to grow and understand themselves. If someone is growing and evolving, unsure about who they are now or going to be and are forced to conform to one or another, that can cause a huge impact on their physical and mental health.
"As someone AFAB who was sexually abused by someone else AFAB... And knowing more than one cishet mam who was, as a child, abused by men (or peers) THANK YOU! A man or woman sign on a door is not some magical barrier to stop people of any gender waking into a bathroom. Also (in my experience) the place I have felt safest is on the continent, some of the best gender neutral toilets have been in Europe... One queue, a main sink area, cubicles off to one side (let's say the right), urinals off behind the wall to the left. And if anyone gets their period unexpectedly... As a 'card carrying cripple' - USE THE ACCESSIBLE TOILETS. Pretty much the only time I get angry at people using the accessibile toilets when they 'shouldn't' is on nights out and a group have clearly been in there for nefarious reasons (sex or drugs). Although in my ideal world all toilets would be accessible and gender neutral. With changing facilies, a sink in reach of the toilet, grab rails etc etc... But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. | |||
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" A man or woman sign on a door is not some magical barrier to stop people of any gender waking into a bathroom " Sexual abuse can happen anywhere. There are no barriers.  | |||
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"I don't think there should be gender neutral toilets in schools only because young girls just getting their periods should be free to deal with that without boys around I started puberty early and was mortified at the thought of boys in my class knowing about it I think maybe having boys, girls and then separate unassigned toilets might be the answer? Gender neutral toilets don't bother me other wise as from what I've seen it's individual cubicles and then sinks out in the open/shared? However, if a boy/man is a predator he will he a predator, gender neutral toilets won't stop him. If this wasn't a thing in this particular school he would of found another way to do it Not all predators are born with a penis (or identify as male). There are a lot of female (not trans) predators too. Unfortunately they come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, colours, genders, ages
Having un-gendered facilities is not about doing away with gender specific, both are needed. Make the spaces safe and secure for everyone to grow and understand themselves. If someone is growing and evolving, unsure about who they are now or going to be and are forced to conform to one or another, that can cause a huge impact on their physical and mental health.
As someone AFAB who was sexually abused by someone else AFAB...
And knowing more than one cishet mam who was, as a child, abused by men (or peers)
THANK YOU!
A man or woman sign on a door is not some magical barrier to stop people of any gender waking into a bathroom.
Also (in my experience) the place I have felt safest is on the continent, some of the best gender neutral toilets have been in Europe...
One queue, a main sink area, cubicles off to one side (let's say the right), urinals off behind the wall to the left.
And if anyone gets their period unexpectedly... As a 'card carrying cripple' - USE THE ACCESSIBLE TOILETS.
Pretty much the only time I get angry at people using the accessibile toilets when they 'shouldn't' is on nights out and a group have clearly been in there for nefarious reasons (sex or drugs).
Although in my ideal world all toilets would be accessible and gender neutral. With changing facilies, a sink in reach of the toilet, grab rails etc etc...
But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. "It seems to me the best answer to the optimal performance of public toileting is not in design or layout but in improving people's attitudes, behaviours and social norms. Simply shared inclusive toilets will work better when we are more understanding and supportive of each others needs and we can genuinely have a better feeling of safety. As I stated above for the reasons above logically shared toilets are safer for everyone including men and boys. However the perception of threat or just dickish behaviour from men will always make some women desire segregation (I dont think thats hard understand even if an incorrect assumption). So whatever changes you make to the physical structure of toilets your not going get the best out until society changes and we have genuine reason to feel more comfortable, included and less threatened by each other. So I see more of a space for gender neutral toilets when we have grown together as a society. On a practical note I too advocate a urinal area in gender neutral spaces too (never seen this personally in any gender neutral toilet apart from once in a swingers club). Gender neutral, just there for all who feel comfortable using them and are equipped to do so. Why should those can take a quick piss needlessly wait in the queue for those who need more time when this can simply be accommodated via a simple facility? I'm not convinced on every toilet cubicles being inclusive as this would take up lots of spaces, would be expensive and would subject lots more expensive infraction to abuse and vanadium. As much as it would be nice for everyone to feel included in the same toilets cubicles I fear not practical. Plus it's not very nice when the infrastructure you require has been vandalised or abused. Maybe again this would work far better if attitudes and behaviours where to improve. Also after ending up a single parent with a 6 month old the provision of baby changing areas asseable to all although better need improvement. There was a least a couple of times where the only baby changing area was provided inside the ladies toilets. Its awkward and difficult when you have to change a baby in the open. I remember once asking for some ladies coming out if they knew of another one and they said thats the only so come on in no body will mind. They lady going in also said its OK. So I did but it felt very uncomfortable because I was very conscious of how it may be perceived by other women. It just was an unpleasant experience. So definitely be good to have some with baby change facilities or a dedicated baby change area. On the point of child care issues when they get older it's so refreshing to see little toilets for potty trainers or the little toilet seat that pulls down. It's the main reason I would head to Debenhams department store if the kids were caught short in town. Likewise not saying every toilet or cubicle should have this. But some facilities would be good where the venue is appropriate and family heavy. I don't think it's practical for ever venue to accommodate everyone perfectly. But we can definitely do better. Especially when we are making new in a large space. | |||
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" But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. " I do have issues with people not genuinely in need of the accessible toilet, using the accessible toilet. This is because, as a wheelchair user, I don't have any other choice. My chair will not fit into a cubicle in the ladies and even if I could get in and shut the door, there are no rails and the sinks are often so high/deep that I can't reach the soap or taps. I fully understand and accept that not all disabilities are visible. However not all invisible or even physical disabilities render someone in essential need of a large toilet space with a sink inside. For example, my amputee friend using his prosthetic would just go in the gents, but on a day where he can't use his prosthetic and has to use his wheelchair, he would obviously use the accessible toilet. There's a person at work who uses the accessible toilet because they have a colostomy bag to empty, which is obviously something that the accessible toilet is fine to use for, but in a proper gender neutral facility with sinks inside cubicles, they wouldn't necessarily need the larger space or grab handles (unless they also have another disability too, which is perfectly possible). I get annoyed by businesses placing baby change facilities inside accessible toilets. It causes unnecessary queues, some parents are very entitled and bang on the door and the n@ppy bins are at wheelchair height so you smell the grimness all the time. Put them in all the other toilet areas or make a separate baby change and kiddie toilet area. I have a lot to say about wheelchair accessible toilets though | |||
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"Just yesterday my daughter from florida txt me saying she is worried to use public bathrooms as she could get arrested (in her words having aspergers and taking everything litaral) there is some nasty stuff going on over there! If loos were gender neutral would cater better for her! Or maybe not! I tell her try not to use a loo out and about but with her medication not allways possible! X" It amazes me how such a simple everyday function has been weaponised as part of a huge and vicious battle ground in a raging cultural war. Its just toilets FFS. Personally I think things could be done better however I think places are fine to provide toilets as they see fit within currently accepted formats and norms. I don't see how toilet layout is a cause of such hate and contention. Gender neutral toilets are not the end of civilization, neither are normal normal toilet norms the greatest of crimes against humanity. Its feels like the most intolerant and unreasonable people are shouting the loudest on all sides at the same time making many other peoples life hell. I calm, ballenced and objective approach would be far more useful to everyone than this ridiculously unreasonable partisan rage. | |||
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"Just yesterday my daughter from florida txt me saying she is worried to use public bathrooms as she could get arrested (in her words having aspergers and taking everything litaral) there is some nasty stuff going on over there! If loos were gender neutral would cater better for her! Or maybe not! I tell her try not to use a loo out and about but with her medication not allways possible! X It amazes me how such a simple everyday function has been weaponised as part of a huge and vicious battle ground in a raging cultural war. Its just toilets FFS. Personally I think things could be done better however I think places are fine to provide toilets as they see fit within currently accepted formats and norms. I don't see how toilet layout is a cause of such hate and contention. Gender neutral toilets are not the end of civilization, neither are normal normal toilet norms the greatest of crimes against humanity. Its feels like the most intolerant and unreasonable people are shouting the loudest on all sides at the same time making many other peoples life hell. I calm, ballenced and objective approach would be far more useful to everyone than this ridiculously unreasonable partisan rage."  I wish she would just come back to England as think things are better here! But she loves her new life mainly out there in florida! X | |||
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"I don't think there should be gender neutral toilets in schools only because young girls just getting their periods should be free to deal with that without boys around I started puberty early and was mortified at the thought of boys in my class knowing about it I think maybe having boys, girls and then separate unassigned toilets might be the answer? Gender neutral toilets don't bother me other wise as from what I've seen it's individual cubicles and then sinks out in the open/shared? However, if a boy/man is a predator he will he a predator, gender neutral toilets won't stop him. If this wasn't a thing in this particular school he would of found another way to do it" This. I'm pretty sure it's law now that establishments can't have gender neutral toilets by getting rid of ladies loos | |||
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" But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. I do have issues with people not genuinely in need of the accessible toilet, using the accessible toilet. This is because, as a wheelchair user, I don't have any other choice. My chair will not fit into a cubicle in the ladies and even if I could get in and shut the door, there are no rails and the sinks are often so high/deep that I can't reach the soap or taps. I fully understand and accept that not all disabilities are visible. However not all invisible or even physical disabilities render someone in essential need of a large toilet space with a sink inside. For example, my amputee friend using his prosthetic would just go in the gents, but on a day where he can't use his prosthetic and has to use his wheelchair, he would obviously use the accessible toilet. There's a person at work who uses the accessible toilet because they have a colostomy bag to empty, which is obviously something that the accessible toilet is fine to use for, but in a proper gender neutral facility with sinks inside cubicles, they wouldn't necessarily need the larger space or grab handles (unless they also have another disability too, which is perfectly possible). I get annoyed by businesses placing baby change facilities inside accessible toilets. It causes unnecessary queues, some parents are very entitled and bang on the door and the n@ppy bins are at wheelchair height so you smell the grimness all the time. Put them in all the other toilet areas or make a separate baby change and kiddie toilet area. I have a lot to say about wheelchair accessible toilets though "You have a lot to say full stop | |||
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" But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. I do have issues with people not genuinely in need of the accessible toilet, using the accessible toilet. This is because, as a wheelchair user, I don't have any other choice. My chair will not fit into a cubicle in the ladies and even if I could get in and shut the door, there are no rails and the sinks are often so high/deep that I can't reach the soap or taps. I fully understand and accept that not all disabilities are visible. However not all invisible or even physical disabilities render someone in essential need of a large toilet space with a sink inside. For example, my amputee friend using his prosthetic would just go in the gents, but on a day where he can't use his prosthetic and has to use his wheelchair, he would obviously use the accessible toilet. There's a person at work who uses the accessible toilet because they have a colostomy bag to empty, which is obviously something that the accessible toilet is fine to use for, but in a proper gender neutral facility with sinks inside cubicles, they wouldn't necessarily need the larger space or grab handles (unless they also have another disability too, which is perfectly possible). I get annoyed by businesses placing baby change facilities inside accessible toilets. It causes unnecessary queues, some parents are very entitled and bang on the door and the n@ppy bins are at wheelchair height so you smell the grimness all the time. Put them in all the other toilet areas or make a separate baby change and kiddie toilet area. I have a lot to say about wheelchair accessible toilets though
You have a lot to say full stop
"Bloody women and their own opinions and thoughts. Absolutely it's a bit much. What's going on, ladies? | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news" I’m a teacher, we have gender neutral toilets with no issue, however we’ve approached it with individual cubicles each with a toilet, sink, sanitary waste bin, sanitary products. Each cubicle is fully enclosed (like its own little room) with a double locking door. We have plenty so there’s hardly any queues they work well. The only issue is people smoking/vaping in them. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x" That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable." Can't see why??x | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news I’m a teacher, we have gender neutral toilets with no issue, however we’ve approached it with individual cubicles each with a toilet, sink, sanitary waste bin, sanitary products. Each cubicle is fully enclosed (like its own little room) with a double locking door. We have plenty so there’s hardly any queues they work well. The only issue is people smoking/vaping in them." The facilities you describe are uni sex cubicles. GN toilets have no Barriers to entry or use. I very rarely agree with Tom if at all but in this case his comments are correct in schools there should be separate WCs. | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news I’m a teacher, we have gender neutral toilets with no issue, however we’ve approached it with individual cubicles each with a toilet, sink, sanitary waste bin, sanitary products. Each cubicle is fully enclosed (like its own little room) with a double locking door. We have plenty so there’s hardly any queues they work well. The only issue is people smoking/vaping in them." The best solution x | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x" Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news I’m a teacher, we have gender neutral toilets with no issue, however we’ve approached it with individual cubicles each with a toilet, sink, sanitary waste bin, sanitary products. Each cubicle is fully enclosed (like its own little room) with a double locking door. We have plenty so there’s hardly any queues they work well. The only issue is people smoking/vaping in them. The facilities you describe are uni sex cubicles. GN toilets have no Barriers to entry or use. I very rarely agree with Tom if at all but in this case his comments are correct in schools there should be separate WCs." Fair point, I think the way we do is the better way for people all round. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. Can't see why??x" Some are not as free thinking and libertarian as some on here. My niece mentioned this the other day and indeed felt uncomfortable with the situation of two men being in the WCs. | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. What's going on guys. It's all over the news I’m a teacher, we have gender neutral toilets with no issue, however we’ve approached it with individual cubicles each with a toilet, sink, sanitary waste bin, sanitary products. Each cubicle is fully enclosed (like its own little room) with a double locking door. We have plenty so there’s hardly any queues they work well. The only issue is people smoking/vaping in them. The facilities you describe are uni sex cubicles. GN toilets have no Barriers to entry or use. I very rarely agree with Tom if at all but in this case his comments are correct in schools there should be separate WCs. Fair point, I think the way we do is the better way for people all round." Being in the design industry for places of entertainment I can tell you quite categorically that trying to design for all gender based requirements is very difficult and costly. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters?" Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. | |||
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" But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. I do have issues with people not genuinely in need of the accessible toilet, using the accessible toilet. This is because, as a wheelchair user, I don't have any other choice. My chair will not fit into a cubicle in the ladies and even if I could get in and shut the door, there are no rails and the sinks are often so high/deep that I can't reach the soap or taps. I fully understand and accept that not all disabilities are visible. However not all invisible or even physical disabilities render someone in essential need of a large toilet space with a sink inside. For example, my amputee friend using his prosthetic would just go in the gents, but on a day where he can't use his prosthetic and has to use his wheelchair, he would obviously use the accessible toilet. There's a person at work who uses the accessible toilet because they have a colostomy bag to empty, which is obviously something that the accessible toilet is fine to use for, but in a proper gender neutral facility with sinks inside cubicles, they wouldn't necessarily need the larger space or grab handles (unless they also have another disability too, which is perfectly possible). I get annoyed by businesses placing baby change facilities inside accessible toilets. It causes unnecessary queues, some parents are very entitled and bang on the door and the n@ppy bins are at wheelchair height so you smell the grimness all the time. Put them in all the other toilet areas or make a separate baby change and kiddie toilet area. I have a lot to say about wheelchair accessible toilets though
You have a lot to say full stop
Bloody women and their own opinions and thoughts. Absolutely it's a bit much. What's going on, ladies?"I'm contractually bound to state "no further comment" | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. " Very well put! X | |||
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"This bugger repeatedly carried out serious sexual offences in the school toilets " Have we determined if this bugger is vicious and/or poisonous yet Tom? | |||
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"This bugger repeatedly carried out serious sexual offences in the school toilets Have we determined if this bugger is vicious and/or poisonous yet Tom?" The papers cannot report the identity for legal reasons .. | |||
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"This bugger repeatedly carried out serious sexual offences in the school toilets Have we determined if this bugger is vicious and/or poisonous yet Tom? The papers cannot report the identity for legal reasons .. " As a sex offender, he doesn’t sound very nice. It has not been confirmed if he is an actual bugger though. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. Can't see why??x" You "can't see why" because you lack empathy for others. With all due respect, you are an older white woman with a solo account on a swinging site. I doubt you are a stranger to penises. What you are not, is a 13 year old Muslim girl. Or a Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian or Catholic girl to name but a few. We pride ourselves in this country that we are tolerant and even welcoming of other cultures, but these cultures do not always have the same cultural norms as us and to dismiss this out of hand is just another example of white privilege and ignorance. Due to the site rules, I am unable to post the link from a website that explains this, but here is a quote from it:- "With Islam’s strict rules on modesty and segregation of the sexes, single-sex spaces matter to Muslim women. If Muslim women no longer have a private, female-only space, they will be forced to self-exclude from sports, public changing rooms and toilets, and even domestic violence shelters." In too many cases, trans inclusion leads to cultural exclusion. As a nation of people doing our best to be inclusive to everyone, we need to do better than ignoring the cultures and beliefs of so many who live, work and are welcome here. Bess x | |||
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"A gender neutral restroom should have a lock on the door, have 1 toilet and 1 urinal. Should not allow more than 1 person at a time. The times we are living in." And dont forget a space for a litter tray for those that identity as a cat | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. " In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. | |||
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"A gender neutral restroom should have a lock on the door, have 1 toilet and 1 urinal. Should not allow more than 1 person at a time. The times we are living in." I think you've missed the point. You are suggesting a toilet or restroom, doesn't really cater to high volumes of school kids at break times. | |||
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"Whilst I respect everyone’s right to live and present as they choose, I also respect the rights of those who are cis gender (as much as I dislike that term). Their rights shouldn’t be excluded for the inclusion of a minority. They may not want or feel comfortable with other genders sharing personal spaces (toilets, changing rooms, shelters etc), for many reasons eg past trauma or abuse, medical, religion or culture. In my opinion the solution is to have gender neutral facilities as well as female only and male only facilities, not ‘instead of’." This. Why does our comfort always come last? | |||
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"Not that anyone particularly cares but I find this topic to be so predictably tiresome" Misogynistic males who care little for the well-being and safety of women will always find this topic tiresome
Bess x | |||
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"Whilst I respect everyone’s right to live and present as they choose, I also respect the rights of those who are cis gender (as much as I dislike that term). Their rights shouldn’t be excluded for the inclusion of a minority. They may not want or feel comfortable with other genders sharing personal spaces (toilets, changing rooms, shelters etc), for many reasons eg past trauma or abuse, medical, religion or culture. In my opinion the solution is to have gender neutral facilities as well as female only and male only facilities, not ‘instead of’." | |||
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"As offensive as it may be, whatever the fuck is in your pants should dictate what toilet you use. I would absolutely not allow my daughter to use a toilet at school that lads were also allowed to use. " Then your daughter uses the Female/Girls gendered toilets!
GN facilities are not about removing the gendered ones and only having GN.
One of my (Mr) high school friends has a Son who was AFAB, they also have two other Daughters who were also AFAB. Their Son dead-named himself when he was 4 and is now 22. Using your logic, throughout all his school years he would have been forced to use the girls toilets. None of the peers at his primary or high schools knew he was packing a pussy and that would have outted him unnecessarily.
The issue posted by the OP is incorrectly assigned as a problem with the facility merely existing. In reality the whole thing is about the decision made by an adolescent human who was AMAB and identifies as Male using the facilities purely for the sole purpose of committing a sexual assault against a human who was AFAB. | |||
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"As offensive as it may be, whatever the fuck is in your pants should dictate what toilet you use. I would absolutely not allow my daughter to use a toilet at school that lads were also allowed to use. Then your daughter uses the Female/Girls gendered toilets!
GN facilities are not about removing the gendered ones and only having GN.
One of my (Mr) high school friends has a Son who was AFAB, they also have two other Daughters who were also AFAB. Their Son dead-named himself when he was 4 and is now 22. Using your logic, throughout all his school years he would have been forced to use the girls toilets. None of the peers at his primary or high schools knew he was packing a pussy and that would have outted him unnecessarily.
The issue posted by the OP is incorrectly assigned as a problem with the facility merely existing. In reality the whole thing is about the decision made by an adolescent human who was AMAB and identifies as Male using the facilities purely for the sole purpose of committing a sexual assault against a human who was AFAB."I wasn’t aware there was a choice I mistakenly assumed the genderless toilet was the only one available to use | |||
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"I don't think there should be gender neutral toilets in schools only because young girls just getting their periods should be free to deal with that without boys around I started puberty early and was mortified at the thought of boys in my class knowing about it I think maybe having boys, girls and then separate unassigned toilets might be the answer? Gender neutral toilets don't bother me other wise as from what I've seen it's individual cubicles and then sinks out in the open/shared? However, if a boy/man is a predator he will he a predator, gender neutral toilets won't stop him. If this wasn't a thing in this particular school he would of found another way to do it This. I'm pretty sure it's law now that establishments can't have gender neutral toilets by getting rid of ladies loos " There are at least two locally to us that only gave shared facilities which Flik would never use so we simply don't go to them. | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. " Somebody finally keeping it real | |||
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" But I guess ability of accessible toilets is a whole other topic. I do have issues with people not genuinely in need of the accessible toilet, using the accessible toilet. This is because, as a wheelchair user, I don't have any other choice. My chair will not fit into a cubicle in the ladies and even if I could get in and shut the door, there are no rails and the sinks are often so high/deep that I can't reach the soap or taps. I fully understand and accept that not all disabilities are visible. However not all invisible or even physical disabilities render someone in essential need of a large toilet space with a sink inside. For example, my amputee friend using his prosthetic would just go in the gents, but on a day where he can't use his prosthetic and has to use his wheelchair, he would obviously use the accessible toilet. There's a person at work who uses the accessible toilet because they have a colostomy bag to empty, which is obviously something that the accessible toilet is fine to use for, but in a proper gender neutral facility with sinks inside cubicles, they wouldn't necessarily need the larger space or grab handles (unless they also have another disability too, which is perfectly possible). I get annoyed by businesses placing baby change facilities inside accessible toilets. It causes unnecessary queues, some parents are very entitled and bang on the door and the n@ppy bins are at wheelchair height so you smell the grimness all the time. Put them in all the other toilet areas or make a separate baby change and kiddie toilet area. I have a lot to say about wheelchair accessible toilets though "Oh I could say a lot of the same... Although my scooter fits in hardly any toilets so if I'm using my scooter I have to leave it outside. But if I'm having a slightly better day I might just have crutches or a walking stick or even (shock horror) Walk a 10 or so meters without. And I've had abuse from people telling me I shouldn't be using accessible toilets. I need grab rails or I'm not getting up off the toilet. With my stomach issues I also often need a sink as close to the toilet as possible. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. " How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. " Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion " Yes.that's me. Go on then..... | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley?" Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry. | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion " A realist had that type of opinion. If you have a dick, you use the mens room, if not you use the womens room. Not that difficult to comprehend | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry." Plenty of women have been convicted of interfering with children, harming children in various ways. In a town we lived in until recently, a woman jumped up from a bench in a park and completely randomly and without a fight or tussle or warning or threat, stabbed a 7yo little girl to death. In broad daylight, in public, in a park. Had she been in a ladies loo, in a confined space, how many more people might she have harmed? | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry." I think the point that is trying to be made is that predators came in all shapes and sizes and you can't tell who or isn't one based on how they look/dress or present themselves | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion A realist had that type of opinion. If you have a dick, you use the mens room, if not you use the womens room. Not that difficult to comprehend " Being transphobic doesn't make you a 'realistic' | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry. Plenty of women have been convicted of interfering with children, harming children in various ways. In a town we lived in until recently, a woman jumped up from a bench in a park and completely randomly and without a fight or tussle or warning or threat, stabbed a 7yo little girl to death. In broad daylight, in public, in a park. Had she been in a ladies loo, in a confined space, how many more people might she have harmed? " These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion A realist had that type of opinion. If you have a dick, you use the mens room, if not you use the womens room. Not that difficult to comprehend Being transphobic doesn't make you a 'realistic' " Transphobic? How? What I said is common sense and I can see you have none | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion A realist had that type of opinion. If you have a dick, you use the mens room, if not you use the womens room. Not that difficult to comprehend Being transphobic doesn't make you a 'realistic' Transphobic? How? What I said is common sense and I can see you have none" If you can't see how what you said is transphobic then idk... Have a good day | |||
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"There is no such thing as "gender neutral". Ridiculous stupidly dangerous concept built for the weak willed. You're either a man(mens bogs) or a woman (womens bogs) For those confused then they need to look in a mirror.if you have a "willy" go to mens. If you have a "fanny" go to womens. Pretending you're the opposite of how nature made you is in your head and doesn't count. Always a certain type of person who has this type of opinion A realist had that type of opinion. If you have a dick, you use the mens room, if not you use the womens room. Not that difficult to comprehend Being transphobic doesn't make you a 'realistic' Transphobic? How? What I said is common sense and I can see you have none If you can't see how what you said is transphobic then idk... Have a good day" Its definitely not. I said nothing to disparage the Trans community. Would you allow a daughter or niece to use a restroom with a man in a dress? I wouldnt. Take care and enjoy the rest of your day | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry. Plenty of women have been convicted of interfering with children, harming children in various ways. In a town we lived in until recently, a woman jumped up from a bench in a park and completely randomly and without a fight or tussle or warning or threat, stabbed a 7yo little girl to death. In broad daylight, in public, in a park. Had she been in a ladies loo, in a confined space, how many more people might she have harmed? These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men." How often are sexual assaults committed in toilets? Do you think a door with the word "ladies" and a picture of a person in a dress, is stopping those who intend to assault someone? I honestly doubt that sexual predators go "oh shit, foiled again. It says ladies only. I'd better go and lurk in an alleyway somewhere instead." | |||
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"We work in an international college. We have students from across the world and from all religious backgrounds. We have Muslim female students who wear the niqab, for example. We also have gender neutral toilets (as well as gender segregated ones). The area with gender neutral loos consists of 3x gender neutral cubicles, with sinks and sanitary bins within. The cubicles are floor to ceiling and like little rooms. There's also a wheelchair accessible (gender neutral, as usual) cubicle on the end. The doors of these 4 cubicles opens right into the corridor, with the entrance to the floor directly opposite the accessible loo and a classroom diagonally opposite the non-accessible ones. Behind the gender neutral row, we have 2 sets of gender segregated toilets, each behind its own door with shared sink area and individual cubicles. There's 2x cubicles in the ladies and I believe 2x cubicles and 2x urinals in the gents. Two sinks within each of the communal areas. Do you know how many sexual assaults have taken place in my 10yr tenure? None. Do you know how many super conservative students have complained about the gender neutral loos? None. And we're talking some students from countries where it'll illegal for women to be out in public without a male relative." Your school is obviously doing something right to teach those children not to be bigots | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry. Plenty of women have been convicted of interfering with children, harming children in various ways. In a town we lived in until recently, a woman jumped up from a bench in a park and completely randomly and without a fight or tussle or warning or threat, stabbed a 7yo little girl to death. In broad daylight, in public, in a park. Had she been in a ladies loo, in a confined space, how many more people might she have harmed? These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. How often are sexual assaults committed in toilets? Do you think a door with the word "ladies" and a picture of a person in a dress, is stopping those who intend to assault someone? I honestly doubt that sexual predators go "oh shit, foiled again. It says ladies only. I'd better go and lurk in an alleyway somewhere instead."" I have no idea about assaults in toilets. I'm sorry, but as others have commented, I'm just not comfortable with my daughter using public toilets which are used by men in dresses. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry. Plenty of women have been convicted of interfering with children, harming children in various ways. In a town we lived in until recently, a woman jumped up from a bench in a park and completely randomly and without a fight or tussle or warning or threat, stabbed a 7yo little girl to death. In broad daylight, in public, in a park. Had she been in a ladies loo, in a confined space, how many more people might she have harmed? These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. How often are sexual assaults committed in toilets? Do you think a door with the word "ladies" and a picture of a person in a dress, is stopping those who intend to assault someone? I honestly doubt that sexual predators go "oh shit, foiled again. It says ladies only. I'd better go and lurk in an alleyway somewhere instead." I have no idea about assaults in toilets. I'm sorry, but as others have commented, I'm just not comfortable with my daughter using public toilets which are used by men in dresses. " You'd be very surprised at how not nice quite a lot of women in dresses are too. You do what you think is best for you, but as I described in a separate post, gender neutral toilets shouldn't provide any kind of unsafe situation for anyone. If anything, done properly, with individual cubicles opening onto a public space, they should make everyone, all genders, safer. | |||
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"We work in an international college. We have students from across the world and from all religious backgrounds. We have Muslim female students who wear the niqab, for example. We also have gender neutral toilets (as well as gender segregated ones). The area with gender neutral loos consists of 3x gender neutral cubicles, with sinks and sanitary bins within. The cubicles are floor to ceiling and like little rooms. There's also a wheelchair accessible (gender neutral, as usual) cubicle on the end. The doors of these 4 cubicles opens right into the corridor, with the entrance to the floor directly opposite the accessible loo and a classroom diagonally opposite the non-accessible ones. Behind the gender neutral row, we have 2 sets of gender segregated toilets, each behind its own door with shared sink area and individual cubicles. There's 2x cubicles in the ladies and I believe 2x cubicles and 2x urinals in the gents. Two sinks within each of the communal areas. Do you know how many sexual assaults have taken place in my 10yr tenure? None. Do you know how many super conservative students have complained about the gender neutral loos? None. And we're talking some students from countries where it'll illegal for women to be out in public without a male relative." I know you know it's not really about the toilets. | |||
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"We work in an international college. We have students from across the world and from all religious backgrounds. We have Muslim female students who wear the niqab, for example. We also have gender neutral toilets (as well as gender segregated ones). The area with gender neutral loos consists of 3x gender neutral cubicles, with sinks and sanitary bins within. The cubicles are floor to ceiling and like little rooms. There's also a wheelchair accessible (gender neutral, as usual) cubicle on the end. The doors of these 4 cubicles opens right into the corridor, with the entrance to the floor directly opposite the accessible loo and a classroom diagonally opposite the non-accessible ones. Behind the gender neutral row, we have 2 sets of gender segregated toilets, each behind its own door with shared sink area and individual cubicles. There's 2x cubicles in the ladies and I believe 2x cubicles and 2x urinals in the gents. Two sinks within each of the communal areas. Do you know how many sexual assaults have taken place in my 10yr tenure? None. Do you know how many super conservative students have complained about the gender neutral loos? None. And we're talking some students from countries where it'll illegal for women to be out in public without a male relative. I know you know it's not really about the toilets." I want them to come out and speak their minds, not beat about the toilet brush. No-one ever gets their knickers or undies in a knot about disabled toilets being gender neutral either, always tickles me  | |||
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"We work in an international college. We have students from across the world and from all religious backgrounds. We have Muslim female students who wear the niqab, for example. We also have gender neutral toilets (as well as gender segregated ones). The area with gender neutral loos consists of 3x gender neutral cubicles, with sinks and sanitary bins within. The cubicles are floor to ceiling and like little rooms. There's also a wheelchair accessible (gender neutral, as usual) cubicle on the end. The doors of these 4 cubicles opens right into the corridor, with the entrance to the floor directly opposite the accessible loo and a classroom diagonally opposite the non-accessible ones. Behind the gender neutral row, we have 2 sets of gender segregated toilets, each behind its own door with shared sink area and individual cubicles. There's 2x cubicles in the ladies and I believe 2x cubicles and 2x urinals in the gents. Two sinks within each of the communal areas. Do you know how many sexual assaults have taken place in my 10yr tenure? None. Do you know how many super conservative students have complained about the gender neutral loos? None. And we're talking some students from countries where it'll illegal for women to be out in public without a male relative. I know you know it's not really about the toilets." Its the woke crowd. I said it. Societies tend to go on a quick downfall when all this gender BS comes about | |||
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"We work in an international college. We have students from across the world and from all religious backgrounds. We have Muslim female students who wear the niqab, for example. We also have gender neutral toilets (as well as gender segregated ones). The area with gender neutral loos consists of 3x gender neutral cubicles, with sinks and sanitary bins within. The cubicles are floor to ceiling and like little rooms. There's also a wheelchair accessible (gender neutral, as usual) cubicle on the end. The doors of these 4 cubicles opens right into the corridor, with the entrance to the floor directly opposite the accessible loo and a classroom diagonally opposite the non-accessible ones. Behind the gender neutral row, we have 2 sets of gender segregated toilets, each behind its own door with shared sink area and individual cubicles. There's 2x cubicles in the ladies and I believe 2x cubicles and 2x urinals in the gents. Two sinks within each of the communal areas. Do you know how many sexual assaults have taken place in my 10yr tenure? None. Do you know how many super conservative students have complained about the gender neutral loos? None. And we're talking some students from countries where it'll illegal for women to be out in public without a male relative. I know you know it's not really about the toilets." Of course it's not but people need something to hide behind don't they | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Whilst respecting your right to have an innocent pee, you must see how this might cause some disquiet to those with young daughters? Why should it? Rachel would use a cubicle, wash hands in the communal space and maybe powder her nose, fix her hair. What's for young daughters to worry about? It's a teachable moment, that trans people and people who cross dress exist and are, for the vast majority, perfectly normal, ordinary people. Would young girls have feared Rose West or Myra Hindley in the ladies? They should have done, but probably didn't. Altering societal norms and expectations will make everyone feel safer. No gender has a monopoly on providing safety to others, anyone can be an unsafe nut job and putting names and signs on doors doesn't stop those with ill intentions to others. In the specific case of Rachel you may well be right. But the practice is wide open to abuse. Not a chance I'd want to take with my daughters anyway. How do you know those (cis) women in the ladies aren't the next Myra Hindley? Would that be murderess Myra Hindley from 1964? My daughter will take her chances thanks. It's 2023 that's the worry. Plenty of women have been convicted of interfering with children, harming children in various ways. In a town we lived in until recently, a woman jumped up from a bench in a park and completely randomly and without a fight or tussle or warning or threat, stabbed a 7yo little girl to death. In broad daylight, in public, in a park. Had she been in a ladies loo, in a confined space, how many more people might she have harmed? These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. How often are sexual assaults committed in toilets? Do you think a door with the word "ladies" and a picture of a person in a dress, is stopping those who intend to assault someone? I honestly doubt that sexual predators go "oh shit, foiled again. It says ladies only. I'd better go and lurk in an alleyway somewhere instead." I have no idea about assaults in toilets. I'm sorry, but as others have commented, I'm just not comfortable with my daughter using public toilets which are used by men in dresses. You'd be very surprised at how not nice quite a lot of women in dresses are too. You do what you think is best for you, but as I described in a separate post, gender neutral toilets shouldn't provide any kind of unsafe situation for anyone. If anything, done properly, with individual cubicles opening onto a public space, they should make everyone, all genders, safer. " Maybe we are at cross purposes here. I have no problem with Unisex toilets opening into a public space. I'm talking about biological men using toilets reserved for women. | |||
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"Gender neutral? Wtf is happening, if you have a cock, your a bloke, go to the blokes toilets, if you have a pussy, your a woman, go to the womens, it ain't fuckin hard, the worlds gone mad I sit back and anticipate the hate mail replies " Common sense | |||
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"There's four gender neutral toilets in my work, it says "gender neutral toilet" on the outside of the door. Obviously there's the separate ladies and men's yoo. I saw one of the doors open one day and noticed they've got sinks and a hand dryer. Fortunately all four have locks on them. It's the first place I've ever worked in that has them x" Too! | |||
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"We work in an international college. We have students from across the world and from all religious backgrounds. We have Muslim female students who wear the niqab, for example. We also have gender neutral toilets (as well as gender segregated ones). The area with gender neutral loos consists of 3x gender neutral cubicles, with sinks and sanitary bins within. The cubicles are floor to ceiling and like little rooms. There's also a wheelchair accessible (gender neutral, as usual) cubicle on the end. The doors of these 4 cubicles opens right into the corridor, with the entrance to the floor directly opposite the accessible loo and a classroom diagonally opposite the non-accessible ones. Behind the gender neutral row, we have 2 sets of gender segregated toilets, each behind its own door with shared sink area and individual cubicles. There's 2x cubicles in the ladies and I believe 2x cubicles and 2x urinals in the gents. Two sinks within each of the communal areas. Do you know how many sexual assaults have taken place in my 10yr tenure? None. Do you know how many super conservative students have complained about the gender neutral loos? None. And we're talking some students from countries where it'll illegal for women to be out in public without a male relative. I know you know it's not really about the toilets. Of course it's not but people need something to hide behind don't they" Maybe it's something to hide behind but it allows the framing of the debate to be on their terms. | |||
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"These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men." This is 99% wrong and is a logical fallacy. More assaults committed by men are reported than committed by women that does not mean the reported numbers represent reality. They also do not sell papers and tabloid shock magazines. Think about it across general reports of sexual assault. There are social and legal double standards when it comes to reporting of sexual assault by Women and Men. When a Man reports being r@ped/assaulted he is ostracised by society for not being a big strong man. Especially if it the abuser is a Woman. Add to that; in the UK Women can not be charged with 'r@pe' because the law says "*he* intentionally penetrates the....with *his* penis". Think about that! They legally can not be charged with or found guilty of 'r@pe' because they do not have a penis. Yet over 40% of lesbians report being 'r@ped' by their Female partner. | |||
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"These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. This is 99% wrong and is a logical fallacy. More assaults committed by men are reported than committed by women that does not mean the reported numbers represent reality. They also do not sell papers and tabloid shock magazines. Think about it across general reports of sexual assault. There are social and legal double standards when it comes to reporting of sexual assault by Women and Men. When a Man reports being r@ped/assaulted he is ostracised by society for not being a big strong man. Especially if it the abuser is a Woman. Add to that; in the UK Women can not be charged with 'r@pe' because the law says "*he* intentionally penetrates the....with *his* penis". Think about that! They legally can not be charged with or found guilty of 'r@pe' because they do not have a penis. Yet over 40% of lesbians report being 'r@ped' by their Female partner." Interestingly, the online news site "Northern Ireland World" reports: "Woman jailed by Northern Ireland judge for r@ping a man in what is believed to be first case of its kind in UK" Note, first of its kind in the UK.... Then there's this one (sexual assault conviction for a woman posing as a man) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/14/georgia-bilham-woman-accused-of-posing-as-male-found-guilty-of-sexual-assault-by-kissing And sadly, there are a number of women who have been convicted of sex crimes against young children, for example, https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/wicked-scots-woman-convicted-sexual-25271159 Crimes are not committed by a single gender only. | |||
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"These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. This is 99% wrong and is a logical fallacy. More assaults committed by men are reported than committed by women that does not mean the reported numbers represent reality. They also do not sell papers and tabloid shock magazines. Think about it across general reports of sexual assault. There are social and legal double standards when it comes to reporting of sexual assault by Women and Men. When a Man reports being r@ped/assaulted he is ostracised by society for not being a big strong man. Especially if it the abuser is a Woman. Add to that; in the UK Women can not be charged with 'r@pe' because the law says "*he* intentionally penetrates the....with *his* penis". Think about that! They legally can not be charged with or found guilty of 'r@pe' because they do not have a penis. Yet over 40% of lesbians report being 'r@ped' by their Female partner. Interestingly, the online news site "Northern Ireland World" reports: "Woman jailed by Northern Ireland judge for r@ping a man in what is believed to be first case of its kind in UK" Note, first of its kind in the UK.... Then there's this one (sexual assault conviction for a woman posing as a man) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/14/georgia-bilham-woman-accused-of-posing-as-male-found-guilty-of-sexual-assault-by-kissing And sadly, there are a number of women who have been convicted of sex crimes against young children, for example, https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/wicked-scots-woman-convicted-sexual-25271159 Crimes are not committed by a single gender only. " Correct, they're not committed by only one gender. But statistically men are more likely to commit these crimes. Anyone who has been involved in child safe guarding at any level could tell you this. Either have single sex spaces and stick to them or individual unisex toilets with a basin etc. | |||
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"Not that anyone particularly cares but I find this topic to be so predictably tiresome" Why are you revisiting it then, on your way I guess. And you are right about anyone caring. | |||
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"Gender neutral toilets reflect the acceptance of trans people who don't want to be discriminated against as they are in the US. I think it's disrespectful to assume that trans people are a threat." I think it's disrespectful to think women's concerns aren't worth listening to. | |||
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"Gender neutral toilets reflect the acceptance of trans people who don't want to be discriminated against as they are in the US. I think it's disrespectful to assume that trans people are a threat. I think it's disrespectful to think women's concerns aren't worth listening to." All concerns are worth talking about and listening to. Civil conversations that is | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. Can't see why??x You "can't see why" because you lack empathy for others. With all due respect, you are an older white woman with a solo account on a swinging site. I doubt you are a stranger to penises. What you are not, is a 13 year old Muslim girl. Or a Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian or Catholic girl to name but a few. We pride ourselves in this country that we are tolerant and even welcoming of other cultures, but these cultures do not always have the same cultural norms as us and to dismiss this out of hand is just another example of white privilege and ignorance. Due to the site rules, I am unable to post the link from a website that explains this, but here is a quote from it:- "With Islam’s strict rules on modesty and segregation of the sexes, single-sex spaces matter to Muslim women. If Muslim women no longer have a private, female-only space, they will be forced to self-exclude from sports, public changing rooms and toilets, and even domestic violence shelters." In too many cases, trans inclusion leads to cultural exclusion. As a nation of people doing our best to be inclusive to everyone, we need to do better than ignoring the cultures and beliefs of so many who live, work and are welcome here. Bess x" U know absoulutley nothing about me ! To say I lack empathy could not b further from the truth!!!!! | |||
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"These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. This is 99% wrong and is a logical fallacy. More assaults committed by men are reported than committed by women that does not mean the reported numbers represent reality. They also do not sell papers and tabloid shock magazines. Think about it across general reports of sexual assault. There are social and legal double standards when it comes to reporting of sexual assault by Women and Men. When a Man reports being r@ped/assaulted he is ostracised by society for not being a big strong man. Especially if it the abuser is a Woman. Add to that; in the UK Women can not be charged with 'r@pe' because the law says "*he* intentionally penetrates the....with *his* penis". Think about that! They legally can not be charged with or found guilty of 'r@pe' because they do not have a penis. Yet over 40% of lesbians report being 'r@ped' by their Female partner. Interestingly, the online news site "Northern Ireland World" reports: "Woman jailed by Northern Ireland judge for r@ping a man in what is believed to be first case of its kind in UK" Note, first of its kind in the UK.... Then there's this one (sexual assault conviction for a woman posing as a man) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/14/georgia-bilham-woman-accused-of-posing-as-male-found-guilty-of-sexual-assault-by-kissing And sadly, there are a number of women who have been convicted of sex crimes against young children, for example, https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/wicked-scots-woman-convicted-sexual-25271159 Crimes are not committed by a single gender only. Correct, they're not committed by only one gender. But statistically men are more likely to commit these crimes. Anyone who has been involved in child safe guarding at any level could tell you this. Either have single sex spaces and stick to them or individual unisex toilets with a basin etc. " We work in education and are very well versed in the safeguarding of young people, thank you. We would be interested in viewing stats that demonstrate one type of toileting facility is safer than another, and that trans people entering the toilet of the gender they identify with, is dangerous. Trans people have existed since forever. Trans people have been able to enter whichever toilet they so wish since forever, also. But we're not aware of a mass outbreak of sexual assault of cis-women, by trans-women, in ladies toilets. If anyone has any data on the above, we'd genuinely be interested. In the meantime, at no point in our safeguarding training have we been advised to look to one gender over another when maintaining vigilance or when reporting suspicions. In fact, we have been trained to try and look beyond stereotypes (e.g. a funny looking man in a long coat-type stereotypes). | |||
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"No no no no no no no- stick to the stuff you know. If you wanna be cool. Follow one simple rule. Don't mess with the flow- no no. Stick to the status quo. Crappest Musical ever....
No, the answer isn't to do away with the gender neutral toilets. In schools, the way forward is to not have communal toilets at all and replace them all with individual cubicles directly off the corridors.
Cal
"But that just means less facilities for all then as the space available has to be devoted to cubicles. Why does the norm have to be totally rearranged to suit the miniscule minority?? | |||
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"No no no no no no no- stick to the stuff you know. If you wanna be cool. Follow one simple rule. Don't mess with the flow- no no. Stick to the status quo. Crappest Musical ever....
No, the answer isn't to do away with the gender neutral toilets. In schools, the way forward is to not have communal toilets at all and replace them all with individual cubicles directly off the corridors.
Cal
But that just means less facilities for all then as the space available has to be devoted to cubicles. Why does the norm have to be totally rearranged to suit the miniscule minority?? "Seems acceptable for disabled toileting facilities, why not everyone else? You should try using a wheelchair accessible toilet in M&S on a Saturday. Makes the queue for the ladies look short. | |||
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"No no no no no no no- stick to the stuff you know. If you wanna be cool. Follow one simple rule. Don't mess with the flow- no no. Stick to the status quo. Crappest Musical ever....
No, the answer isn't to do away with the gender neutral toilets. In schools, the way forward is to not have communal toilets at all and replace them all with individual cubicles directly off the corridors.
Cal
But that just means less facilities for all then as the space available has to be devoted to cubicles. Why does the norm have to be totally rearranged to suit the miniscule minority??
Seems acceptable for disabled toileting facilities, why not everyone else? You should try using a wheelchair accessible toilet in M&S on a Saturday. Makes the queue for the ladies look short."Sorry i dont understand that point. Disabled toilets exist for obvious physical reasons. There is no reason whatsoever that mens toilets and urinals should be abondoned to suit some nonsensical reason | |||
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"No no no no no no no- stick to the stuff you know. If you wanna be cool. Follow one simple rule. Don't mess with the flow- no no. Stick to the status quo. Crappest Musical ever....
No, the answer isn't to do away with the gender neutral toilets. In schools, the way forward is to not have communal toilets at all and replace them all with individual cubicles directly off the corridors.
Cal
But that just means less facilities for all then as the space available has to be devoted to cubicles. Why does the norm have to be totally rearranged to suit the miniscule minority??
Seems acceptable for disabled toileting facilities, why not everyone else? You should try using a wheelchair accessible toilet in M&S on a Saturday. Makes the queue for the ladies look short.
Sorry i dont understand that point.
Disabled toilets exist for obvious physical reasons. There is no reason whatsoever that mens toilets and urinals should be abondoned to suit some nonsensical reason"The number of them. There's only ever one disabled toilet, yet far more than one person needing to use it. But no-one seems terribly bothered. Disabled people are least likely to be able to wait too. Is having fewer toilets for the general populace a bad thing? I don't know. Our college has actually gained toilets by installing gender neutral space, rather than losing them. | |||
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"Tom thank you for bringing up this topic. It has made for the most amazing filter thread x" Absoulutley agree! My private note facility has done overtime on this thread!xx | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. Can't see why??x You "can't see why" because you lack empathy for others. With all due respect, you are an older white woman with a solo account on a swinging site. I doubt you are a stranger to penises. What you are not, is a 13 year old Muslim girl. Or a Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian or Catholic girl to name but a few. We pride ourselves in this country that we are tolerant and even welcoming of other cultures, but these cultures do not always have the same cultural norms as us and to dismiss this out of hand is just another example of white privilege and ignorance. Due to the site rules, I am unable to post the link from a website that explains this, but here is a quote from it:- "With Islam’s strict rules on modesty and segregation of the sexes, single-sex spaces matter to Muslim women. If Muslim women no longer have a private, female-only space, they will be forced to self-exclude from sports, public changing rooms and toilets, and even domestic violence shelters." In too many cases, trans inclusion leads to cultural exclusion. As a nation of people doing our best to be inclusive to everyone, we need to do better than ignoring the cultures and beliefs of so many who live, work and are welcome here. Bess x U know absoulutley nothing about me ! To say I lack empathy could not b further from the truth!!!!!" Well you seem to be unable to accept that many women have an issue with sharing single sex spaces with biological men. I'd say that's fairly unempathetic. Whilst I strongly disagree with trans identifying men using women's spaces, I can appreciate that some could be at risk if they used the mens toilets. So in the case of the toilet question, single unisex toilets would be the best option for everyone. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. Can't see why??x You "can't see why" because you lack empathy for others. With all due respect, you are an older white woman with a solo account on a swinging site. I doubt you are a stranger to penises. What you are not, is a 13 year old Muslim girl. Or a Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian or Catholic girl to name but a few. We pride ourselves in this country that we are tolerant and even welcoming of other cultures, but these cultures do not always have the same cultural norms as us and to dismiss this out of hand is just another example of white privilege and ignorance. Due to the site rules, I am unable to post the link from a website that explains this, but here is a quote from it:- "With Islam’s strict rules on modesty and segregation of the sexes, single-sex spaces matter to Muslim women. If Muslim women no longer have a private, female-only space, they will be forced to self-exclude from sports, public changing rooms and toilets, and even domestic violence shelters." In too many cases, trans inclusion leads to cultural exclusion. As a nation of people doing our best to be inclusive to everyone, we need to do better than ignoring the cultures and beliefs of so many who live, work and are welcome here. Bess x U know absoulutley nothing about me ! To say I lack empathy could not b further from the truth!!!!! Well you seem to be unable to accept that many women have an issue with sharing single sex spaces with biological men. I'd say that's fairly unempathetic. Whilst I strongly disagree with trans identifying men using women's spaces, I can appreciate that some could be at risk if they used the mens toilets. So in the case of the toilet question, single unisex toilets would be the best option for everyone." Where have I written I'm unable to accept that many women have an issue sharing a single sex loo?? Enlighten me please?? | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x That preference could cause some females to be uncomfortable. Can't see why??x You "can't see why" because you lack empathy for others. With all due respect, you are an older white woman with a solo account on a swinging site. I doubt you are a stranger to penises. What you are not, is a 13 year old Muslim girl. Or a Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian or Catholic girl to name but a few. We pride ourselves in this country that we are tolerant and even welcoming of other cultures, but these cultures do not always have the same cultural norms as us and to dismiss this out of hand is just another example of white privilege and ignorance. Due to the site rules, I am unable to post the link from a website that explains this, but here is a quote from it:- "With Islam’s strict rules on modesty and segregation of the sexes, single-sex spaces matter to Muslim women. If Muslim women no longer have a private, female-only space, they will be forced to self-exclude from sports, public changing rooms and toilets, and even domestic violence shelters." In too many cases, trans inclusion leads to cultural exclusion. As a nation of people doing our best to be inclusive to everyone, we need to do better than ignoring the cultures and beliefs of so many who live, work and are welcome here. Bess x U know absoulutley nothing about me ! To say I lack empathy could not b further from the truth!!!!! Well you seem to be unable to accept that many women have an issue with sharing single sex spaces with biological men. I'd say that's fairly unempathetic. Whilst I strongly disagree with trans identifying men using women's spaces, I can appreciate that some could be at risk if they used the mens toilets. So in the case of the toilet question, single unisex toilets would be the best option for everyone. Where have I written I'm unable to accept that many women have an issue sharing a single sex loo?? Enlighten me please??" "Accept" was perhaps a mistake on my part. You appear to lack empathy for them and their reasons for feeling this way. | |||
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"These are outliers. 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. This is 99% wrong and is a logical fallacy. More assaults committed by men are reported than committed by women that does not mean the reported numbers represent reality. They also do not sell papers and tabloid shock magazines. Think about it across general reports of sexual assault. There are social and legal double standards when it comes to reporting of sexual assault by Women and Men. When a Man reports being r@ped/assaulted he is ostracised by society for not being a big strong man. Especially if it the abuser is a Woman. Add to that; in the UK Women can not be charged with 'r@pe' because the law says "*he* intentionally penetrates the....with *his* penis". Think about that! They legally can not be charged with or found guilty of 'r@pe' because they do not have a penis. Yet over 40% of lesbians report being 'r@ped' by their Female partner. Interestingly, the online news site "Northern Ireland World" reports: "Woman jailed by Northern Ireland judge for r@ping a man in what is believed to be first case of its kind in UK" Note, first of its kind in the UK.... Then there's this one (sexual assault conviction for a woman posing as a man) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/14/georgia-bilham-woman-accused-of-posing-as-male-found-guilty-of-sexual-assault-by-kissing And sadly, there are a number of women who have been convicted of sex crimes against young children, for example, https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/wicked-scots-woman-convicted-sexual-25271159 Crimes are not committed by a single gender only. Correct, they're not committed by only one gender. But statistically men are more likely to commit these crimes. Anyone who has been involved in child safe guarding at any level could tell you this. Either have single sex spaces and stick to them or individual unisex toilets with a basin etc. We work in education and are very well versed in the safeguarding of young people, thank you. We would be interested in viewing stats that demonstrate one type of toileting facility is safer than another, and that trans people entering the toilet of the gender they identify with, is dangerous. Trans people have existed since forever. Trans people have been able to enter whichever toilet they so wish since forever, also. But we're not aware of a mass outbreak of sexual assault of cis-women, by trans-women, in ladies toilets. If anyone has any data on the above, we'd genuinely be interested. In the meantime, at no point in our safeguarding training have we been advised to look to one gender over another when maintaining vigilance or when reporting suspicions. In fact, we have been trained to try and look beyond stereotypes (e.g. a funny looking man in a long coat-type stereotypes). " I have a number of friends and acquaintances who work in related professions. Like you, they are trained to keep an open mind. But from speaking to them, the evidence would suggest that men are far more likely to commit opportunistic sexual offences. Do you think it's acceptable for transwomen to use female facilities? | |||
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"The most amazing issue I take from this debate is all the contributors have a vote!" We all have opinions and an asshole, but when some people read an opinion they dont like they get all defensive and butt hurt. Then stampede off like nly their point of view matters. If we all had the same opinions, life would suck and there would be nothing to talk about. | |||
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"It’s hilarious that people block me because I dont agree with grown men in dresses being able to piss next to a female child. That just shows their ignorance. " Their ignorance is not why you're being blocked. The topic is about a male student using a neutral toilet to assault a female student in a premeditated attack. The adult transwoman in your hypothetical example will either use the GN option or a cubicle within the female gendered option. They are not pissing next to *any* child unless they are forced to use the male option and hike their dress/skirt up. That is going to be way more jarring to the hypothetical male child at the urinal. Not to mention the potential physical threat to the transwoman when the male child's dad takes offence to them being in the gents. | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments." Yes, ALL toilets should be GENDERED! The government should go into EVERY home and decide who gets to use which loo. Houses with only 1 loo will be gendered alternately. So you can just pop next door when you need to. Houses with more than two bathrooms will have the toilet bowl ripped out of one to have it replaced by a urinal BY LAW!! 
Ooooor
I know this sounds crazy...
Teach our kids not to assault people.
And maybe realise that the sign on the door would not have stopped him. Just like it didn't stop all the men who have assaulted (or worse) women in women's toilets.
You know, like Trump did when he shoved E Jean Carroll into a women's changing room and sexually assaulted her.
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"I wrote a huge long screed, but my phone barfed and lost the lot before I could press "post message". So instead of retyping the lot, I've got just one word for every transphobe wanking while they attack trans folk with their ravings about toilets: BOLLOCKS!"
x | |||
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"Reports that a schoolboy aged 16 has been arrested after a string of sex assaults in the school gender neutral toilets. Is it time to stop these crazy utopian experiments. Yes, ALL toilets should be GENDERED! The government should go into EVERY home and decide who gets to use which loo. Houses with only 1 loo will be gendered alternately. So you can just pop next door when you need to. Houses with more than two bathrooms will have the toilet bowl ripped out of one to have it replaced by a urinal BY LAW!!
Ooooor
I know this sounds crazy...
Teach our kids not to assault people.
And maybe realise that the sign on the door would not have stopped him. Just like it didn't stop all the men who have assaulted (or worse) women in women's toilets.
You know, like Trump did when he shoved E Jean Carroll into a women's changing room and sexually assaulted her.
"The commonly used argument about sharing the toilet at home is fucking ridiculous. I share the toilet at home with two males. I gave birth to one of them and the other one fathered my two children. Hardly the same as women & girls sharing female toilets with unlnown men. As to your point about "some men are going to assault anyway". Up until fairly recently, before the words nazi, bigot and transphobe were thrown about like fucking confetti, women would have been able to challenge a man in their toilets without fear of being called this. Or at the very least try to raise the alarm for someone to help. Now we can't. So I suppose we just need to shut up and hope they're not the r@pey type. I'm not saying all transwomen are predators. I'm saying there is no way of telling who identifies as a transwoman and who identifies as a man. So if the issue is safety then single cubicles and basins is the only way to go. | |||
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"It’s hilarious that people block me because I dont agree with grown men in dresses being able to piss next to a female child. That just shows their ignorance. " Exactly it's fucking sick but yeah lets normalise this behaviour | |||
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"I wrote a huge long screed, but my phone barfed and lost the lot before I could press "post message". So instead of retyping the lot, I've got just one word for every transphobe wanking while they attack trans folk with their ravings about toilets: BOLLOCKS!" Why is anyone who disagrees with you automatically called a transphobe? I don't automatically assume any transwoman wanting to use a woman's space has an ulterior motive and start name calling. | |||
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"It’s hilarious that people block me because I dont agree with grown men in dresses being able to piss next to a female child. That just shows their ignorance. Their ignorance is not why you're being blocked. The topic is about a male student using a neutral toilet to assault a female student in a premeditated attack. The adult transwoman in your hypothetical example will either use the GN option or a cubicle within the female gendered option. They are not pissing next to *any* child unless they are forced to use the male option and hike their dress/skirt up. That is going to be way more jarring to the hypothetical male child at the urinal. Not to mention the potential physical threat to the transwoman when the male child's dad takes offence to them being in the gents."
And it's always about transwomen.
These are the same people who would (and have) abused or attacked my nephew for going in women's toilets at the start of his transition. (And holy hell they would freak out at his bearded self walking in now)
They 'care about women and children' but they only care about the *right* women and children.
They refuse to acknowledge trans women are women just wanting to live their lives and have a piss in peace, but at the same they don't believe trans men are women and aren't letting them in the women's bathroom either.
To those who are GC:
I don't understand it, how you can be so focused on trans women and seem to completely fail to acknowledge trans men (while weirdly, by your ignoring them, legitimising them). | |||
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"It’s hilarious that people block me because I dont agree with grown men in dresses being able to piss next to a female child. That just shows their ignorance. Their ignorance is not why you're being blocked. The topic is about a male student using a neutral toilet to assault a female student in a premeditated attack. The adult transwoman in your hypothetical example will either use the GN option or a cubicle within the female gendered option. They are not pissing next to *any* child unless they are forced to use the male option and hike their dress/skirt up. That is going to be way more jarring to the hypothetical male child at the urinal. Not to mention the potential physical threat to the transwoman when the male child's dad takes offence to them being in the gents.
And it's always about transwomen.
These are the same people who would (and have) abused or attacked my nephew for going in women's toilets at the start of his transition. (And holy hell they would freak out at his bearded self walking in now)
They 'care about women and children' but they only care about the *right* women and children.
They refuse to acknowledge trans women are women just wanting to live their lives and have a piss in peace, but at the same they don't believe trans men are women and aren't letting them in the women's bathroom either.
To those who are GC:
I don't understand it, how you can be so focused on trans women and seem to completely fail to acknowledge trans men (while weirdly, by your ignoring them, legitimising them). "Because transwomen are men and maintain the same patterns of offending in relation to sexual assaults as men who identify as men. Transmen are women and therefore, mostly, not viewed as the same potential threat by women. | |||
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"It’s hilarious that people block me because I dont agree with grown men in dresses being able to piss next to a female child. That just shows their ignorance. Their ignorance is not why you're being blocked. The topic is about a male student using a neutral toilet to assault a female student in a premeditated attack. The adult transwoman in your hypothetical example will either use the GN option or a cubicle within the female gendered option. They are not pissing next to *any* child unless they are forced to use the male option and hike their dress/skirt up. That is going to be way more jarring to the hypothetical male child at the urinal. Not to mention the potential physical threat to the transwoman when the male child's dad takes offence to them being in the gents.
And it's always about transwomen.
These are the same people who would (and have) abused or attacked my nephew for going in women's toilets at the start of his transition. (And holy hell they would freak out at his bearded self walking in now)
They 'care about women and children' but they only care about the *right* women and children.
They refuse to acknowledge trans women are women just wanting to live their lives and have a piss in peace, but at the same they don't believe trans men are women and aren't letting them in the women's bathroom either.
To those who are GC:
I don't understand it, how you can be so focused on trans women and seem to completely fail to acknowledge trans men (while weirdly, by your ignoring them, legitimising them).
Because transwomen are men and maintain the same patterns of offending in relation to sexual assaults as men who identify as men.
Transmen are women and therefore, mostly, not viewed as the same potential threat by women.
"TRANS WOMEN ARE NOT MEN!!!! AND TRANS MEN ARE NOT WOMEN!! JEEZZ!! | |||
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"It’s hilarious that people block me because I dont agree with grown men in dresses being able to piss next to a female child. That just shows their ignorance. Their ignorance is not why you're being blocked. The topic is about a male student using a neutral toilet to assault a female student in a premeditated attack. The adult transwoman in your hypothetical example will either use the GN option or a cubicle within the female gendered option. They are not pissing next to *any* child unless they are forced to use the male option and hike their dress/skirt up. That is going to be way more jarring to the hypothetical male child at the urinal. Not to mention the potential physical threat to the transwoman when the male child's dad takes offence to them being in the gents.
And it's always about transwomen.
These are the same people who would (and have) abused or attacked my nephew for going in women's toilets at the start of his transition. (And holy hell they would freak out at his bearded self walking in now)
They 'care about women and children' but they only care about the *right* women and children.
They refuse to acknowledge trans women are women just wanting to live their lives and have a piss in peace, but at the same they don't believe trans men are women and aren't letting them in the women's bathroom either.
To those who are GC:
I don't understand it, how you can be so focused on trans women and seem to completely fail to acknowledge trans men (while weirdly, by your ignoring them, legitimising them).
Because transwomen are men and maintain the same patterns of offending in relation to sexual assaults as men who identify as men.
Transmen are women and therefore, mostly, not viewed as the same potential threat by women.
TRANS WOMEN ARE NOT MEN!!!! AND TRANS MEN ARE NOT WOMEN!! JEEZZ!!"Yes they are. No need to shout. | |||
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"If these gender neutral toilets have shared facilities, sinks, mirrors etc behind a separate closable door, they should be banned. Individual cubicles with sinks where the door opens on to a public area are ok. Bess x" I needed a pee while visiting the town park in Coutances, France. The public convenience consisted of a stone built building, which had a urinal running the length of one side of the building. While I was standing there, having a pee in the glorious open air, a young mum and her daughter walked past me to go inside, where the ladies toilets are. Not exactly ‘gender neutral’, but all perfectly ‘natural’ in France it seemed….. | |||
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"No. You're a woman if you have a fanny. No amount of makeup, long hair, surgery etc will change that. It's not opinion, it's basic biology that even a 4 year old could educate you in" | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks " Yep, they're like flies and shit | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks " | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks " I use threads like this to find people who are able to debate without resorting to name calling. And I'm open minded enough to think that a man could and should be allowed to dress however he wishes and identify as a woman if he wants to, without being subjected to violence or abuse. But it doesn't make him a woman. | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks I use threads like this to find people who are able to debate without resorting to name calling. And I'm open minded enough to think that a man could and should be allowed to dress however he wishes and identify as a woman if he wants to, without being subjected to violence or abuse. But it doesn't make him a woman. " You appear to be one of the few vocies of sanity in this thread | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks I use threads like this to find people who are able to debate without resorting to name calling. And I'm open minded enough to think that a man could and should be allowed to dress however he wishes and identify as a woman if he wants to, without being subjected to violence or abuse. But it doesn't make him a woman. You appear to be one of the few vocies of sanity in this thread" A fellow bigot! Yippee! | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks " Ain't that the truth! And the terfs! | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks Ain't that the truth! And the terfs!" That term is widely regarded as a slur. How would you feel if I referred to "trannies"? | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks Ain't that the truth! And the terfs! That term is widely regarded as a slur. How would you feel if I referred to "trannies"?" Yes, this is true. In future I must remember to always state "transgender erasing radical feminists" in full. Although I do admit that this term is misleading and incorrect, as the vast majority of these people are not feminist, merely full of hate that they load onto a group that they perceive as an easy target. They are not radical, merely spiteful. And tracing the money that funds the organised transphobia spreading forces always reveals undeniable links to far right wing organisations, neo-nazi groups, opposers of women's rights, white power, Russian money, anti-semitism, extreme evangelical churches (I refuse to say Christianity there, as they twist and invert all that is good in the teachings of Jesus Christ) and male entitlement. So no, we should not use the term "terf" we should instead say something more like "transphobic anti-feminist forces against tolerant society". Unfortunately "taffats" is unlikely to catch on as a snappy acronym. | |||
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This is a great thread for rooting out the woman hating misogynists though. It's sad that some of them are female.
Bess x | |||
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"TERF = trans-exclusionary radical feminist FARTS = female appropriating radical trans supporters RATS = radically active trans supporters. We can all make up ridiculous acronyms
This is a great thread for rooting out the woman hating misogynists though. It's sad that some of them are female.
Bess x"CWeJBeN - can't we just be nice? | |||
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"These threads always polarise opinion. Much to my sadness there is no answer that will satisfy everyone. Yes its true, steps taken to integrate any outliers in any society will be open to abuse by those who choose to. The #NotAll argument can be used and is true but by the same token #NotAll by definition must be countered by #Some. The issue is divisive. It has strong feelings on all sides. Sadly both side of the argument have some arsehole in their ranks. Being pro or anti doesnt make anyone imune from being a twat. There is no satisfactiry answer. " The most sensible thing posted on this entire thread | |||
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"Whilst I respect everyone’s right to live and present as they choose, I also respect the rights of those who are cis gender (as much as I dislike that term). Their rights shouldn’t be excluded for the inclusion of a minority. They may not want or feel comfortable with other genders sharing personal spaces (toilets, changing rooms, shelters etc), for many reasons eg past trauma or abuse, medical, religion or culture. In my opinion the solution is to have gender neutral facilities as well as female only and male only facilities, not ‘instead of’." Finally. Some sense. Xx | |||
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"TERF = trans-exclusionary radical feminist FARTS = female appropriating radical trans supporters RATS = radically active trans supporters. We can all make up ridiculous acronyms
This is a great thread for rooting out the woman hating misogynists though. It's sad that some of them are female.
Bess x
CWeJBeN - can't we just be nice? "I honestly wish it were that easy. I think part of the problem is women are conditioned to "be nice" and always try to accommodate those who are marginalised. But when the rights of other marginalised groups risk being impacted then I tend to think "fuck that". | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks Ain't that the truth! And the terfs! That term is widely regarded as a slur. How would you feel if I referred to "trannies"? Yes, this is true. In future I must remember to always state "transgender erasing radical feminists" in full. Although I do admit that this term is misleading and incorrect, as the vast majority of these people are not feminist, merely full of hate that they load onto a group that they perceive as an easy target. They are not radical, merely spiteful. And tracing the money that funds the organised transphobia spreading forces always reveals undeniable links to far right wing organisations, neo-nazi groups, opposers of women's rights, white power, Russian money, anti-semitism, extreme evangelical churches (I refuse to say Christianity there, as they twist and invert all that is good in the teachings of Jesus Christ) and male entitlement. So no, we should not use the term "terf" we should instead say something more like "transphobic anti-feminist forces against tolerant society". Unfortunately "taffats" is unlikely to catch on as a snappy acronym." So mothers who demonstrate for same sex intimate care for their disabled daughters are actually far right, neo nazi, white supremacists? Daughters who do the same for their elderly mothers in nursing homes with dementia are actually antisemitic? Nurses who advocate for same sex care for vulnerable female patients are actually transphobic and intolerant? Can I have a large glass of whatever you're on please. | |||
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" Gender Neutral bollocks" Can you get them on the NHS or did you have to go private? | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks Ain't that the truth! And the terfs! That term is widely regarded as a slur. How would you feel if I referred to "trannies"? Yes, this is true. In future I must remember to always state "transgender erasing radical feminists" in full. Although I do admit that this term is misleading and incorrect, as the vast majority of these people are not feminist, merely full of hate that they load onto a group that they perceive as an easy target. They are not radical, merely spiteful. And tracing the money that funds the organised transphobia spreading forces always reveals undeniable links to far right wing organisations, neo-nazi groups, opposers of women's rights, white power, Russian money, anti-semitism, extreme evangelical churches (I refuse to say Christianity there, as they twist and invert all that is good in the teachings of Jesus Christ) and male entitlement. So no, we should not use the term "terf" we should instead say something more like "transphobic anti-feminist forces against tolerant society". Unfortunately "taffats" is unlikely to catch on as a snappy acronym. So mothers who demonstrate for same sex intimate care for their disabled daughters are actually far right, neo nazi, white supremacists? Daughters who do the same for their elderly mothers in nursing homes with dementia are actually antisemitic? Nurses who advocate for same sex care for vulnerable female patients are actually transphobic and intolerant? Can I have a large glass of whatever you're on please. "I think they are drinking too much Mondo? Some of the statements and insane thoughts are straight out of the movie Idiocracy. | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks Ain't that the truth! And the terfs! That term is widely regarded as a slur. How would you feel if I referred to "trannies"? Yes, this is true. In future I must remember to always state "transgender erasing radical feminists" in full. Although I do admit that this term is misleading and incorrect, as the vast majority of these people are not feminist, merely full of hate that they load onto a group that they perceive as an easy target. They are not radical, merely spiteful. And tracing the money that funds the organised transphobia spreading forces always reveals undeniable links to far right wing organisations, neo-nazi groups, opposers of women's rights, white power, Russian money, anti-semitism, extreme evangelical churches (I refuse to say Christianity there, as they twist and invert all that is good in the teachings of Jesus Christ) and male entitlement. So no, we should not use the term "terf" we should instead say something more like "transphobic anti-feminist forces against tolerant society". Unfortunately "taffats" is unlikely to catch on as a snappy acronym." Jesus. What a pile of nonsense | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x" Do you consider the comfort levels of the women beside you in the toilets when you are in there? I've personally been forced to use a "gender nutral" toilet in Edinburgh Playhouse and it was genuinely one of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. If anyone has been to that toilet on the top floor of the playhouse they will understand. It is not as simple as saying "I am special so everyone must accommodate my unique view of myself without debate". Your actions affect more than just you with potentially life harming consequences | |||
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"This is a great thread for rooting out the bigots and narrow minded folks Ain't that the truth! And the terfs! That term is widely regarded as a slur. How would you feel if I referred to "trannies"? Yes, this is true. In future I must remember to always state "transgender erasing radical feminists" in full. Although I do admit that this term is misleading and incorrect, as the vast majority of these people are not feminist, merely full of hate that they load onto a group that they perceive as an easy target. They are not radical, merely spiteful. And tracing the money that funds the organised transphobia spreading forces always reveals undeniable links to far right wing organisations, neo-nazi groups, opposers of women's rights, white power, Russian money, anti-semitism, extreme evangelical churches (I refuse to say Christianity there, as they twist and invert all that is good in the teachings of Jesus Christ) and male entitlement. So no, we should not use the term "terf" we should instead say something more like "transphobic anti-feminist forces against tolerant society". Unfortunately "taffats" is unlikely to catch on as a snappy acronym." I mean as a trans person, you would think you would get the acronym right. | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Do you consider the comfort levels of the women beside you in the toilets when you are in there? I've personally been forced to use a "gender nutral" toilet in Edinburgh Playhouse and it was genuinely one of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. If anyone has been to that toilet on the top floor of the playhouse they will understand. It is not as simple as saying "I am special so everyone must accommodate my unique view of myself without debate". Your actions affect more than just you with potentially life harming consequences " | |||
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"I know a number of LGBT clubs and pubs have gender neutral toilets. If I’m out as Rachel in the day, whilst I always feel self conscious, I will always use the ladies loo. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a men’s loo when out as a lady. R x Do you consider the comfort levels of the women beside you in the toilets when you are in there? I've personally been forced to use a "gender nutral" toilet in Edinburgh Playhouse and it was genuinely one of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. If anyone has been to that toilet on the top floor of the playhouse they will understand. It is not as simple as saying "I am special so everyone must accommodate my unique view of myself without debate". Your actions affect more than just you with potentially life harming consequences "Why the eye roll? You were offended earlier in the thread when it was suggested that you were not empathetic. Can you not understand that for some women (and men!) it could be an extremely uncomfortable experience to be in what should be a single sex space with a member of the opposite sex? I have empathy for genuine trans people who must feel anxious about using toilets etc though ultimately it doesn't change my opinion. Why can't you offer the same to those with an opposite opinion? It's just constant eye rolling, shouty replies and exclamation marks. | |||
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"No matter what the toilet gender I wish people could just piss straight and not over the dam seat or ram toilet roll everywhere . filthy peasants . No one has time for that when trying to have a quick pee . " | |||
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"Remember when “gender neutral” facilities were known as “unisex”? Anyway, it’s not the facilities that need to change, or people’s dismissive attitude towards “wokism”, but men’s mindset towards women and sexual violence." Just men's mindsets? | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end. "Don't worry. I'm sure there will be another one when a similar news story breaks. | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end. "It's going down the pan soon | |||
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"Remember when “gender neutral” facilities were known as “unisex”? Anyway, it’s not the facilities that need to change, or people’s dismissive attitude towards “wokism”, but men’s mindset towards women and sexual violence." Reading the thread, I think there is some confusion between Unisex toilets and Men using Women's toilets. There is a distinction between the two cases. | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end. " x | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end.
Don't worry. I'm sure there will be another one when a similar news story breaks."Indeed. The establishment do want to distract us from serious structural issues by shitting on a marginalised group. And some people care much more about demonising trans people than dealing with the cost of living, climate crisis, or even actually getting to the root of keeping people safe. Who needs facts and evidence based policy when you can have a scary story and righteous indignation? | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end.
Don't worry. I'm sure there will be another one when a similar news story breaks.
Indeed.
The establishment do want to distract us from serious structural issues by shitting on a marginalised group. And some people care much more about demonising trans people than dealing with the cost of living, climate crisis, or even actually getting to the root of keeping people safe. Who needs facts and evidence based policy when you can have a scary story and righteous indignation? "Is that the same establishment that has everything covered in the Pride progress flag? | |||
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"If these gender neutral toilets have shared facilities, sinks, mirrors etc behind a separate closable door, they should be banned. Individual cubicles with sinks where the door opens on to a public area are ok. Bess x" This; just like the Gender Neutral Toilets in our homes | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end.
Don't worry. I'm sure there will be another one when a similar news story breaks.
Indeed.
The establishment do want to distract us from serious structural issues by shitting on a marginalised group. And some people care much more about demonising trans people than dealing with the cost of living, climate crisis, or even actually getting to the root of keeping people safe. Who needs facts and evidence based policy when you can have a scary story and righteous indignation?
Is that the same establishment that has everything covered in the Pride progress flag? "Nah. That's corporations recognising that it's no longer profitable to cater to shit spewing bigots
They do what makes them money. Everyone knows that | |||
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"No matter what the toilet gender I wish people could just piss straight and not over the dam seat or ram toilet roll everywhere . filthy peasants . No one has time for that when trying to have a quick pee . "Thats kind of what happens when you have d*unk (or even sober) blokes using the ladies. | |||
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"I'm glad this fountain of bile is coming to an end. "This kind of post is typical of those who have nothing to bring to the debate and just want to end it to satisfy their own misplaced sense of moral righteousness. This is what misogyny and anti-woman bigotry looks like, take a good look folks. Bess x | |||
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