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Who is wrongly portrayed as a hero
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Superman
Sorry off topic but have you seen the film Brightburn? Evil Superman I loved it!"
not sure what the topic was … but he’s not real .. he was when I was a kid  …
Now I’m going to have to look this film up as I’ve never heard of it …. Evil superman … now we talking  |
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"Disabled people, often.
E.g. finding people inspirational/heroic for getting themselves around ASDA, just because their legs don't work properly. Etc. bit harsh"
Nope. It's really fucking annoying. I'm a wheelchair user and it is not in the least bit inspirational for me to do my shopping. Nor any of the incredibly mundane things that people seem to think is absolutely amazing and wonderful and I'm so brave etc etc etc. Nope, Barbara. I'm just buying a bunch of fucking bananas. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"Disabled people, often.
E.g. finding people inspirational/heroic for getting themselves around ASDA, just because their legs don't work properly. Etc. bit harsh"
 sorry! I'll leave K_C to explain but made me laugh out loud |
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"Disabled people, often.
E.g. finding people inspirational/heroic for getting themselves around ASDA, just because their legs don't work properly. Etc. bit harsh
Nope. It's really fucking annoying. I'm a wheelchair user and it is not in the least bit inspirational for me to do my shopping. Nor any of the incredibly mundane things that people seem to think is absolutely amazing and wonderful and I'm so brave etc etc etc. Nope, Barbara. I'm just buying a bunch of fucking bananas. "
Blimey is that what you use your bananas for? |
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind. "
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero. |
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"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero."
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread. "
You put it better  |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero."
He can still be a wanker while having done those things. Somebody I know is a fireman that has risked his life a few times to save others, he is still a grade a wanker, and his heroics do not negate or excuse that.
Thing is nothing Churchill did was heroic, yes he at the time of war was a great leader and a lot is owed to that leqdership but... while being comfortable in safety.
The millions of actual peoplebthat risked their own lives to accomplish victory are the true heroes. Not some politician sitting comfortable. |
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread. "
I didn't say Churchill was the first.He was the first English PM to stand up to the threat instead of appeasement.Every Jewish friend I have and Jewish person I have spoken to over the years is grateful for Churchill,but obviously they are "wrong" |
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"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.
I didn't say Churchill was the first.He was the first English PM to stand up to the threat instead of appeasement.Every Jewish friend I have and Jewish person I have spoken to over the years is grateful for Churchill,but obviously they are "wrong""
You literally typed "saw the Nazi threat before anyone else" with no other qualifying comments. He did not. Not even close. He wasn't the first British politician to know the threat either.
Look, if Britain had accepted Jewish people fleeing from the Nazi threat, if Britain had accepted sponsorship of incoming Jewish people by non-citizens and if the politicians of the day hadn't been so fearful of the Blackshirts taking over the asylum, my family might be a bit bigger. But, as it happened, my Great Grandfather hadn't yet naturalised despite being here since 1888 and all the Jewish family on the Continent perished. Every. Single. One. The Nazis are why u I have a family that can all sit around a single coffee table. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread. "
I have wiener’s pamphlets talking about the threat of antisemitism in Germany in 1919. I have been to the Wiener Holocaust library many times to visit their wonderful exhibitions that have taught me so much about the Jewish experience throughout history. And still I couldn’t be more sure that Churchill is in fact still a white supremacist with an abhorrent history of grotesque comments on and actions towards Indians.
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.
I didn't say Churchill was the first.He was the first English PM to stand up to the threat instead of appeasement.Every Jewish friend I have and Jewish person I have spoken to over the years is grateful for Churchill,but obviously they are "wrong"
You literally typed "saw the Nazi threat before anyone else" with no other qualifying comments. He did not. Not even close. He wasn't the first British politician to know the threat either.
Look, if Britain had accepted Jewish people fleeing from the Nazi threat, if Britain had accepted sponsorship of incoming Jewish people by non-citizens and if the politicians of the day hadn't been so fearful of the Blackshirts taking over the asylum, my family might be a bit bigger. But, as it happened, my Great Grandfather hadn't yet naturalised despite being here since 1888 and all the Jewish family on the Continent perished. Every. Single. One. The Nazis are why u I have a family that can all sit around a single coffee table. "
I later qualified with first English PM to do anything against the Nazis,Chamberlain and most of the "establishment"would have done nothing,especially the Monarchy/Aristocracy.Without Churchill your family and mine couldn't sit round a coffee cup.England was not the only country to screw up with Jewish refugees.The problem at the time was the country of Israel did not exist,Judaism is a religion not a nationality,refugees/persecuted people were not Jewish/Israeli,they were German,Polish,Russian etc.There was no Refugee Act for politicians to work with.The idea the allies knew what was happening pre or at the begining of the war is not correct .The Nazis themselves hadn't decided on the final solution or how to achieve it .The activities in the camps (forcedlabour or otherwise)weren't confirmed until they were liberated. |
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"The idea the allies knew what was happening pre or at the begining of the war is not correct .The Nazis themselves hadn't decided on the final solution or how to achieve it .The activities in the camps (forcedlabour or otherwise)weren't confirmed until they were liberated."
Completely wrong. They knew enough by 1942, not long after the Wannsee conference.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/holocaust-allied-forces-knew-before-concentration-camp-discovery-us-uk-soviets-secret-documents-a7688036.html
That's my final contribution on this, but suggest doing some more learning because what is being stated as fact here, is not. |
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.
I have wiener’s pamphlets talking about the threat of antisemitism in Germany in 1919. I have been to the Wiener Holocaust library many times to visit their wonderful exhibitions that have taught me so much about the Jewish experience throughout history. And still I couldn’t be more sure that Churchill is in fact still a white supremacist with an abhorrent history of grotesque comments on and actions towards Indians.
"
Weiner talked of antisemitism broadly not the specific threat of Hitler/Nazi party,Hitler was unknown in politics and the Nazi party hadn't been formed.Churchill saw through the mask,as he saw through the Russian mask.If you want to judge someone from history by today's standards,compare a steam train to the space shuttle. |
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"The idea the allies knew what was happening pre or at the begining of the war is not correct .The Nazis themselves hadn't decided on the final solution or how to achieve it .The activities in the camps (forcedlabour or otherwise)weren't confirmed until they were liberated.
Completely wrong. They knew enough by 1942, not long after the Wannsee conference.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/holocaust-allied-forces-knew-before-concentration-camp-discovery-us-uk-soviets-secret-documents-a7688036.html
That's my final contribution on this, but suggest doing some more learning because what is being stated as fact here, is not. "
1942 is not pre war or at the begining,the final solution had not begun. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One man's hero is another man's villain. There are people who are certified scum, like serial killers and r*pists. But it's hard to find someone who is a hero for everyone."
Examples? |
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"One man's hero is another man's villain. There are people who are certified scum, like serial killers and r*pists. But it's hard to find someone who is a hero for everyone.
Examples?"
?? I K Brunel,great engineer,twat to his family and workforce.
Douglas Badger,great pilot,exhibitionist-narcissist-attention seeker,as a fellow flier said"an absolute bastard".
Jimmy Saville,incredible fundraiser,Monster.
Harold Shipman,psychopath,regarded by fellow inmates as better than the prison doctor. |
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"One man's hero is another man's villain. There are people who are certified scum, like serial killers and r*pists. But it's hard to find someone who is a hero for everyone.
Examples?"
From my experience, everyone from Gandhi to Mother Teresa have groups hating on them for various reasons. It's just hard to lead a life where you can satisfy everyone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.
I have wiener’s pamphlets talking about the threat of antisemitism in Germany in 1919. I have been to the Wiener Holocaust library many times to visit their wonderful exhibitions that have taught me so much about the Jewish experience throughout history. And still I couldn’t be more sure that Churchill is in fact still a white supremacist with an abhorrent history of grotesque comments on and actions towards Indians.
Weiner talked of antisemitism broadly not the specific threat of Hitler/Nazi party,Hitler was unknown in politics and the Nazi party hadn't been formed.Churchill saw through the mask,as he saw through the Russian mask.If you want to judge someone from history by today's standards,compare a steam train to the space shuttle."
It’s funny because let’s not pretend that Churchill saying white supremacist stuff in the 30s and 40s and 50s means I can’t judge him. Plenty of people didn’t hold views as extreme as his. I don’t get why we normalise it. This is a man that believed racial groups were inferior. These ideas also undermine the people from oppressed groups that actively fought at these times for freedoms and liberation. They knew it was wrong. Confused as to why I’m not allowed to expect Winston Churchill to have known? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I have wiener’s pamphlets talking about the threat of antisemitism in Germany in 1919. I have been to the Wiener Holocaust library many times to visit their wonderful exhibitions that have taught me so much about the Jewish experience throughout history. And still I couldn’t be more sure that Churchill is in fact still a white supremacist with an abhorrent history of grotesque comments on and actions towards Indians.
Weiner talked of antisemitism broadly not the specific threat of Hitler/Nazi party,Hitler was unknown in politics and the Nazi party hadn't been formed.Churchill saw through the mask,as he saw through the Russian mask.If you want to judge someone from history by today's standards,compare a steam train to the space shuttle."
Also, have you read Wiener’s pamphlets? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ghandi never had a good word to say about black people.Wonder why BLM have never torn down any statues of him?"
Have BLM torn down many statues? As in members of the organisation?
That’s a genuine question as I don’t know. |
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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago
Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton, |
"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.
I have wiener’s pamphlets talking about the threat of antisemitism in Germany in 1919. I have been to the Wiener Holocaust library many times to visit their wonderful exhibitions that have taught me so much about the Jewish experience throughout history. And still I couldn’t be more sure that Churchill is in fact still a white supremacist with an abhorrent history of grotesque comments on and actions towards Indians.
Weiner talked of antisemitism broadly not the specific threat of Hitler/Nazi party,Hitler was unknown in politics and the Nazi party hadn't been formed.Churchill saw through the mask,as he saw through the Russian mask.If you want to judge someone from history by today's standards,compare a steam train to the space shuttle.
It’s funny because let’s not pretend that Churchill saying white supremacist stuff in the 30s and 40s and 50s means I can’t judge him. Plenty of people didn’t hold views as extreme as his. I don’t get why we normalise it. This is a man that believed racial groups were inferior. These ideas also undermine the people from oppressed groups that actively fought at these times for freedoms and liberation. They knew it was wrong. Confused as to why I’m not allowed to expect Winston Churchill to have known? "
No one is saying you are not allowed.Expecting someone born over a hundred years ago to have the same beliefs/ideas/sensitivities as today is not realistic.Racial profiling was not unique to Churchill,it had credibility in science for many years,as a prolific reader and consumer of information and detail he was simply "following the science" of the day. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Winston Churchill
I'm not sure the Hero & Wanker are mutually exclusive...
Wanker is kind.
Churchill,the reason you are not in a death camp,speaking German or Russian.Saw the Nazi threat before anyone else,then predicted and halted as much as possible the Russians taking advantage of the turmoil at wars end.Tell anyone Jewish(one group of many) he is a wanker or not a hero.
The first person to identify the Nazi threat was most likely Alfred Weiner in 1919. And if you read the book I've just read, you'll understand why your last sentence isn't actually true. The Allies knew a lot about what was happening in Europe and could have done things differently, but instead decided not to entertain any form of mass assistance of Jewish refugees, nor prisoner exchanges that might have seen some people released. They also stuck pretty rigidly the rules on needing passports to enter the UK, which is a bit different when Nazi law has made it impossible to be a legal citizen if you are Jewish and have therefore been rendered stateless. Allied nations could have done an awful lot more before the outbreak of war too.
But this is an entirely different conversation for a different thread.
I have wiener’s pamphlets talking about the threat of antisemitism in Germany in 1919. I have been to the Wiener Holocaust library many times to visit their wonderful exhibitions that have taught me so much about the Jewish experience throughout history. And still I couldn’t be more sure that Churchill is in fact still a white supremacist with an abhorrent history of grotesque comments on and actions towards Indians.
Weiner talked of antisemitism broadly not the specific threat of Hitler/Nazi party,Hitler was unknown in politics and the Nazi party hadn't been formed.Churchill saw through the mask,as he saw through the Russian mask.If you want to judge someone from history by today's standards,compare a steam train to the space shuttle.
It’s funny because let’s not pretend that Churchill saying white supremacist stuff in the 30s and 40s and 50s means I can’t judge him. Plenty of people didn’t hold views as extreme as his. I don’t get why we normalise it. This is a man that believed racial groups were inferior. These ideas also undermine the people from oppressed groups that actively fought at these times for freedoms and liberation. They knew it was wrong. Confused as to why I’m not allowed to expect Winston Churchill to have known?
No one is saying you are not allowed.Expecting someone born over a hundred years ago to have the same beliefs/ideas/sensitivities as today is not realistic.Racial profiling was not unique to Churchill,it had credibility in science for many years,as a prolific reader and consumer of information and detail he was simply "following the science" of the day."
It didn’t have credibility in science at that time. Come on Chelsea man |
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