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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Are threatening to take their ball home and not invest millions in the UK if the government doesn't stop being cruel to them about the amount of tax they don't pay.
Should we worry or call their bluff? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No way plenty of other coffee outlets all over the place pay our taxes pay reasonable wages or fuck off and good riddance"
I agree
Coffee is coffee ...
Get it anywhere |
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I know one in leicester has closed down, they may have just moved it but its not where it was thats for sure.
Lots of coffee shops in every street. Even we are undated with them.
We have a costa here but not a starbucks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I agree I'm a small business owner I have to pay full tax if I don't pay on time the nice man at hmrc gives me a letter and charges me £100 fir the pleasure so starbucks pay up or go home |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree I'm a small business owner I have to pay full tax if I don't pay on time the nice man at hmrc gives me a letter and charges me £100 fir the pleasure so starbucks pay up or go home "
I suggest you 'work' in one of their bars and invoice them for entering your workspace.  |
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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago
North of The Wall - youll need your vest |
Since Starbucks hit the headlines about this Ive noticed that the one where I live is a lot quieter than it used to be...
Not sure if its because of the tax thing, or just the time of year, but definitely quieter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Agreed but it just goes to show how flawed the tax system is if they paid their fair share it would ease the burden on sole traders as the government wouldn't be as desperate I'm not saying I shunt pay tax but tax releif would work freeing cash up to expand business |
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"Are threatening to take their ball home and not invest millions in the UK if the government doesn't stop being cruel to them about the amount of tax they don't pay.
Should we worry or call their bluff?"
Well this is classic tale of the tail wagging the donkey! Starbucks is a brand and to be fair they have done a great job in making the coffee drinkers amongst us think that you cannot purchase coffee from another. The other posters are correct, dont use the brand then they would soon see that the consumer is king (or Queen)and when sales pummet they will be happy to pay the lawful and moral taxes rates of the country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me!  |
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me! "
They are using accounting risk assessment techniques to reduce the corporate tax liability. The point is that if every multinational company did that then the HMRC would not have a pot in which to urinate! In any event Starbucks are mostly a franchisee based business model which is really a large company selling a brand letting others take the risk and pay local taxes whilts hugh letting payments are sent back to the mother ship. It called corporate greed! As for the loss of jobs.........there are enough other coffee shop franchiees to fill the void and as foer the loss of tax revenue 80% of employees in brand base franchisee businesses are less than 19 hours duration. |
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"No country can allow any business or even industry to dictate tax policy.
If Starbucks, or whoever, don't like the deal - they can leave.
Thay won't."
They aren't dictating tax policy though....they are just more clever than the government who didn't close the loophole they have exploited |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me! They are using accounting risk assessment techniques to reduce the corporate tax liability. The point is that if every multinational company did that then the HMRC would not have a pot in which to urinate! In any event Starbucks are mostly a franchisee based business model which is really a large company selling a brand letting others take the risk and pay local taxes whilts hugh letting payments are sent back to the mother ship. It called corporate greed! As for the loss of jobs.........there are enough other coffee shop franchiees to fill the void and as foer the loss of tax revenue 80% of employees in brand base franchisee businesses are less than 19 hours duration."
Every multinational employs at great expense teams to minimise tax liability - it's standard practice!!
As for the number of part time workers? That's fine then is it? Those with child care responsibilities, students, retired, claiming benefits are less important than full time workers? Often they need the additional income as much, if not more, than those in full time employment!
I'd rather a company provided employment to many, than increased taxes to a govt that has as much of a clue about economics as a 4 yr old child! |
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me! They are using accounting risk assessment techniques to reduce the corporate tax liability. The point is that if every multinational company did that then the HMRC would not have a pot in which to urinate! In any event Starbucks are mostly a franchisee based business model which is really a large company selling a brand letting others take the risk and pay local taxes whilts hugh letting payments are sent back to the mother ship. It called corporate greed! As for the loss of jobs.........there are enough other coffee shop franchiees to fill the void and as foer the loss of tax revenue 80% of employees in brand base franchisee businesses are less than 19 hours duration.
Every multinational employs at great expense teams to minimise tax liability - it's standard practice!!
As for the number of part time workers? That's fine then is it? Those with child care responsibilities, students, retired, claiming benefits are less important than full time workers? Often they need the additional income as much, if not more, than those in full time employment!
I'd rather a company provided employment to many, than increased taxes to a govt that has as much of a clue about economics as a 4 yr old child! "
Your comment was that the tax revuene to the goverment would be hampered if this company pulled, it will have a minimal effect. Starbuck will never retreat from Europe as it accounts for 38% of its world wide income. They should pay the corporation tax of the base country. Thats fair and not open to accusations of tax evasion. I have a small business and I pay my taxes simples! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me! They are using accounting risk assessment techniques to reduce the corporate tax liability. The point is that if every multinational company did that then the HMRC would not have a pot in which to urinate! In any event Starbucks are mostly a franchisee based business model which is really a large company selling a brand letting others take the risk and pay local taxes whilts hugh letting payments are sent back to the mother ship. It called corporate greed! As for the loss of jobs.........there are enough other coffee shop franchiees to fill the void and as foer the loss of tax revenue 80% of employees in brand base franchisee businesses are less than 19 hours duration.
Every multinational employs at great expense teams to minimise tax liability - it's standard practice!!
As for the number of part time workers? That's fine then is it? Those with child care responsibilities, students, retired, claiming benefits are less important than full time workers? Often they need the additional income as much, if not more, than those in full time employment!
I'd rather a company provided employment to many, than increased taxes to a govt that has as much of a clue about economics as a 4 yr old child! Your comment was that the tax revuene to the goverment would be hampered if this company pulled, it will have a minimal effect. Starbuck will never retreat from Europe as it accounts for 38% of its world wide income. They should pay the corporation tax of the base country. Thats fair and not open to accusations of tax evasion. I have a small business and I pay my taxes simples!"
Actually my comment was more about regulatory failings, employment and empty units! But hey ho! |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"No country can allow any business or even industry to dictate tax policy.
If Starbucks, or whoever, don't like the deal - they can leave.
Thay won't.
They aren't dictating tax policy though....they are just more clever than the government who didn't close the loophole they have exploited"
They're trying to.
A bit like WPP who effed off to Eire in pursuit of lower Corporation Tax then came back with their tail between their legs a few years later. |
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"They don't invest in the UK - they just build coffee shops.
I'm sure Costa would be just DEVASTATED by the loss of competition. They could probably buy the sites and hire the staff."
Its a Franchise..........they find the premises ask some business person to invest in it and dictate the product by way of a performance specification and take a generous share of the turnover. Its a low investment, risk and seeming low tax rate model. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its all a big cover up - the real reason Starbucks UK may close is because their owner is really struggling to split their time between running a multi-national coffee franchise and fighting the Cylon empire in deep space. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all a big cover up - the real reason Starbucks UK may close is because their owner is really struggling to split their time between running a multi-national coffee franchise and fighting the Cylon empire in deep space."
lol but there are several Starbucks so she can certainty multi task......
. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Are threatening to take their ball home and not invest millions in the UK if the government doesn't stop being cruel to them about the amount of tax they don't pay.
Should we worry or call their bluff?"
Call their bluff. If they do leave then there's a gap in the market for a British company. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"............
Call their bluff. If they do leave then there's a gap in the market for a British company."
I'm not sure it's a gap that needs filled.
There's loads of spare capacity in the coffee house + sticky bun + free wifi market - at least in the bigger cities.
Time to give the smaller, local guys a roll of the dice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are threatening to take their ball home and not invest millions in the UK if the government doesn't stop being cruel to them about the amount of tax they don't pay.
Should we worry or call their bluff?"
Fuck em. Not like they don't have enough money as it is. They wanna withdraw their outlets? Let them do just that. Get an independent shop in its place. Something none corporate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I refuse to drink in Starbucks because of the way they treat forces personnel so couldn't give a rats arse of they all close. "
What's this in reference to? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"So have they broken any UK laws by not paying what is considered to be the full amount of tax and are they now breaking them?
"
It shouldn't have to come down to whether what Starbucks are doing is LEGAL or not.
If you don't approve of what they're doing - don't spend your money there. |
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So for every Starbucks that closes, a cute little independent coffee shop is going to open up and fill the gap? Get real. All that is going to happen is another empty building will add to the general ghost town feel of most high streets, and 5 (approx.) people will be unemployed.
So they didn't pay the full amount of tax, they had to. Do you really think Costa do? Costa is owned by Whitbread, and trust me, they do not pay the full amount of tax either. And Costa pay their staff a lot less then Starbucks do. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"So for every Starbucks that closes, a cute little independent coffee shop is going to open up and fill the gap? Get real. All that is going to happen is another empty building will add to the general ghost town feel of most high streets, and 5 (approx.) people will be unemployed. "
No, not at all. I reckon the market is over-supplied as it is. A few less Starbucks won't be missed and there are already plenty of small independent coffee shops around to take up the slack (at least in bigger towns and cities).
"So they didn't pay the full amount of tax, they had to. Do you really think Costa do? Costa is owned by Whitbread, and trust me, they do not pay the full amount of tax either. And Costa pay their staff a lot less then Starbucks do. "
I don't buy the 'they're no worse than the others' nonsense.
I do my best to support the little guys and actively avoid multinationals/ pubcos and so on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If the loopholes exist, why don't the government just close them? Seems to me if we could all find a way to pay less tax legally, then we would. So... why can't the loopholes just get sorted?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me! "
 With my Business tax and Personal tax my company paid over £100,0000 in 2011-12 and this is set to rise 2012-13 My business puts £12000 away every month to cover my commitments to HMRC Remember tax is paid on turnover and not profit If it was not due to the shrewdness of my Accountant this would be much higher, there is a lot more to business and the inland revenue than most people realize |
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me!
With my Business tax and Personal tax my company paid over £100,0000 in 2011-12 and this is set to rise 2012-13 My business puts £12000 away every month to cover my commitments to HMRC Remember tax is paid on turnover and not profit If it was not due to the shrewdness of my Accountant this would be much higher, there is a lot more to business and the inland revenue than most people realize "
Tax is paid on turnover and not on profit?....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If history tells us anything it's that the bigger the company the more they can tell the tax man to fuck off,that's just the reality of the situation,I like the coffee in Starbucks but I hate their politics and two faced corporate profile,at the moment with some large companies going bang the government is just scared shitless that if Starbucks fuck off more people go unemployed.sorry but in my opinion Starbucks should be made to pay up or be told to fuck off |
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"Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion !!
Every business owner will be advised by their accountant to minimise their tax liability - from sole traders to multinationals! It's called business!!
They leave - thousands unemployed, more empty units on already deserted high streets and the govt gets even less tax revenue!!
Sounds like perfect logic to me!
With my Business tax and Personal tax my company paid over £100,0000 in 2011-12 and this is set to rise 2012-13 My business puts £12000 away every month to cover my commitments to HMRC Remember tax is paid on turnover and not profit If it was not due to the shrewdness of my Accountant this would be much higher, there is a lot more to business and the inland revenue than most people realize
Tax is paid on turnover and not on profit?.... "
Well? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You pay corporation tax on the profits of your business...."
I am not getting into to another argument with you Business tax, VAT, or corporation tax is paid on turn over once all expenses taken away am not a bloody accountant Jane
and whats with the Well business.
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"You pay corporation tax on the profits of your business....
I am not getting into to another argument with you Business tax, VAT, or corporation tax is paid on turn over once all expenses taken away am not a bloody accountant Jane
and whats with the Well business.
"
I'm not getting into an argument with you....I have a business and pay corporation tax on my company profits.
And I'm not an accountant either |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You pay corporation tax on the profits of your business....
I am not getting into to another argument with you Business tax, VAT, or corporation tax is paid on turn over once all expenses taken away am not a bloody accountant Jane
and whats with the Well business.
And dont need a new Accountant thanks she does a good job
I'm not getting into an argument with you....I have a business and pay corporation tax on my company profits.
And I'm not an accountant either"
And don't need a new Accountant thanks she does a good job |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"You pay corporation tax on the profits of your business....
I am not getting into to another argument with you Business tax, VAT, or corporation tax is paid on turn over once all expenses taken away ..............
"
Turnover, once all expenses are taken away, isn't turnover. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a firm believer in the fact that this country has declined ever since the rise of the coffee shop.
Pubs are shutting at the rate of one a week and there are thousands of coffee shops popping up everywhere. I've been boycotting them since they started. If I want a drink I'll go into a pub just like my father used to, and his father before him. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I'd much rather use a local independent pub for morning coffee than Starbucks or Costa.
The service is usually better and the margin on coffee helps keep the pub afloat."
I've said it before but I was shocked to see the decline of the independents in Lyme Regis once the chain/franchise coffee shops got a foothold. We have become a nation of people that want a standard package experience in all things.
As one of my colleagues said, give your name as "pay your fucking taxes" and every Starbucks will be full of the sound of their own people calling that out. Or, just don't go. Ignore them and go to the greasy spoon where you might not get a fancy coffee but you'll cut down on the coffee calories and save yourself some money too. |
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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"just out of interest and curiousity...
how many of you wanting to take down starbucks.... are on the vodafone mobile network?
they do exactly the same thing.....
"
....I can't operate my own phone company just that I call my friends, I can't operate my own internet company from a mobile phone so that I can log on fab from anywhere. But I can for sure make my own coffee the way I want it
Starbuck can f....k out and we will still be fine
This country exist and fonction before starbuck and will still do after starbuck |
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When I go out I want to be able to buy myself a coffee if I want one, I have a very good coffee machine built into my kitchen but I can't take it out with me for the day so I will go into a coffee shop and relax with a latte.
ps......Nero's is the coffee shop of choice for me  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"just out of interest and curiousity...
how many of you wanting to take down starbucks.... are on the vodafone mobile network?
they do exactly the same thing.....
....I can't operate my own phone company just that I call my friends, I can't operate my own internet company from a mobile phone so that I can log on fab from anywhere. But I can for sure make my own coffee the way I want it
Starbuck can f....k out and we will still be fine
This country exist and fonction before starbuck and will still do after starbuck"
but the vodafone corporation do exactly the same thing... so all the people have vodafone mobile and pay as you go phones are in effect doing the same thing as anyone drinking in starbucks...
thats why I asked the question.... |
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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"just out of interest and curiousity...
how many of you wanting to take down starbucks.... are on the vodafone mobile network?
they do exactly the same thing.....
....I can't operate my own phone company just that I call my friends, I can't operate my own internet company from a mobile phone so that I can log on fab from anywhere. But I can for sure make my own coffee the way I want it
Starbuck can f....k out and we will still be fine
This country exist and fonction before starbuck and will still do after starbuck
but the vodafone corporation do exactly the same thing... so all the people have vodafone mobile and pay as you go phones are in effect doing the same thing as anyone drinking in starbucks...
thats why I asked the question...."
...should I just change my provider tomorrow??? as I don't wanna be part of this tax dogging
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I prefer to support small independent business where practical. so I’d always opt for a local café’ or tearooms....
 ...Tearoom???? Do they have any with stunning ladies in hight hills??? "
hight hills??? |
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