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Stifling of opinion and debate
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
There's a fundamental difference between wanting to identify as a certain gender and wanting to identify as a cat or other species.
If people can't understand that then they really don't have much to offer any debate on the subject.
I know a TA who has had this issue with kids using the 'I'm a cat' argument just to cause problems at their school. It's done simply to cause disruption, not because they actually do or want to.
A |
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
"
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?"
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
Red meat for the frothing masses. I read it a few times and it's telegraph doing telegraph things.
First the teacher doesn't say the objecting pupil is despicable, the teacher says their words are:
"Cisgender is not necessarily the way to be – you are talking about the fact that cisgender is the norm, that you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”
If someone is recording in a classroom they're looking for a gotcha moment.
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while"
Oh yeah those easily offended snowflakes, absolutely incandescent with offense that someone might identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. Wait were snowflakes right wing or left wing? I know they were easily offended and fragile...hmmm, it's hard to remember who you're supposed to hate. I better check my newspaper so it can tell me. |
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while
Oh yeah those easily offended snowflakes, absolutely incandescent with offense that someone might identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. Wait were snowflakes right wing or left wing? I know they were easily offended and fragile...hmmm, it's hard to remember who you're supposed to hate. I better check my newspaper so it can tell me."
Good debate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while
Oh yeah those easily offended snowflakes, absolutely incandescent with offense that someone might identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. Wait were snowflakes right wing or left wing? I know they were easily offended and fragile...hmmm, it's hard to remember who you're supposed to hate. I better check my newspaper so it can tell me.
Good debate."
Stay woke |
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By *apybarasCouple
over a year ago
High Lighthouse! |
"Red meat for the frothing masses. I read it a few times and it's telegraph doing telegraph things.
First the teacher doesn't say the objecting pupil is despicable, the teacher says their words are:
"Cisgender is not necessarily the way to be – you are talking about the fact that cisgender is the norm, that you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”
If someone is recording in a classroom they're looking for a gotcha moment.
"
You always have to be careful with the likes of the Mail and Telegraph. Because as the headline is classed as "advertising" for the article, it doesn't have to be true in the same way as the article has to be.
So they will often "exaggerate" the contents in the headline, then actually state the facts near the end of the article with the firm knowledge not everyone will read that far. |
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while
Oh yeah those easily offended snowflakes, absolutely incandescent with offense that someone might identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. Wait were snowflakes right wing or left wing? I know they were easily offended and fragile...hmmm, it's hard to remember who you're supposed to hate. I better check my newspaper so it can tell me.
Good debate.
Stay woke"
Yep good debate |
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"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while
Oh yeah those easily offended snowflakes, absolutely incandescent with offense that someone might identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. Wait were snowflakes right wing or left wing? I know they were easily offended and fragile...hmmm, it's hard to remember who you're supposed to hate. I better check my newspaper so it can tell me.
Good debate."
Not really, it's just making fun of outrage junkies getting their hate fix. Then having to go back into the hateful society they wilfully created for themselves that we all have to exist in. So thanks, keep up the good work of making the world a shittier place. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Red meat for the frothing masses. I read it a few times and it's telegraph doing telegraph things.
First the teacher doesn't say the objecting pupil is despicable, the teacher says their words are:
"Cisgender is not necessarily the way to be – you are talking about the fact that cisgender is the norm, that you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”
If someone is recording in a classroom they're looking for a gotcha moment.
You always have to be careful with the likes of the Mail and Telegraph. Because as the headline is classed as "advertising" for the article, it doesn't have to be true in the same way as the article has to be.
So they will often "exaggerate" the contents in the headline, then actually state the facts near the end of the article with the firm knowledge not everyone will read that far."
This being another example of it. They know their audience. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Heres a great example of the hypocrisy of the debate...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/18/pupil-teacher-despicable-identifying-cat-transgender/
Oh look confirmation bias and cherry picking, well case closed!
It's political correctness gone mad! Or was it woke gone mad? What label are we using for people we don't like anymore?
Snowflakes? That was popular for a while
Oh yeah those easily offended snowflakes, absolutely incandescent with offense that someone might identify with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth. Wait were snowflakes right wing or left wing? I know they were easily offended and fragile...hmmm, it's hard to remember who you're supposed to hate. I better check my newspaper so it can tell me.
Good debate.
Stay woke
Yep good debate"
When you debate something, you're granting it a level of credibility and seriousness. |
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Agree with me or ill insult you... Agree with me or ill kick you out of school. Not going to win many friends. Its a serious matter and merits inclusion not just belittling those who dont immediately agree or reducing the matter to nothing because its in a broadsheet. In my opinion anyway. |
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"Agree with me or ill insult you... Agree with me or ill kick you out of school. Not going to win many friends. Its a serious matter and merits inclusion not just belittling those who dont immediately agree or reducing the matter to nothing because its in a broadsheet. In my opinion anyway. "
You must be new here  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Red meat for the frothing masses. I read it a few times and it's telegraph doing telegraph things.
First the teacher doesn't say the objecting pupil is despicable, the teacher says their words are:
"Cisgender is not necessarily the way to be – you are talking about the fact that cisgender is the norm, that you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”
If someone is recording in a classroom they're looking for a gotcha moment.
You always have to be careful with the likes of the Mail and Telegraph. Because as the headline is classed as "advertising" for the article, it doesn't have to be true in the same way as the article has to be.
So they will often "exaggerate" the contents in the headline, then actually state the facts near the end of the article with the firm knowledge not everyone will read that far."
Surely not.  |
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You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it? |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?"
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi!  |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?"
Jesus christ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?"
You thought you did something here but you didn’t  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi! "
I know, it's a really ludicrous idea, surely nobody would ever do this, it's unthinkable. But just out of interest, and hypothetically speaking of course, if this completely non-sensical situation did happen, would you deny that person the right to identify as a woman?
Bess x |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi! "
I know perfectly well how it works, that was an example. Its just different levels of the same point i'm trying to make. Its not a crime to disagree, THATS what i'm saying. Feel free to disagree with that, also. |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi!
I know, it's a really ludicrous idea, surely nobody would ever do this, it's unthinkable. But just out of interest, and hypothetically speaking of course, if this completely non-sensical situation did happen, would you deny that person the right to identify as a woman?
Bess x"
My god, really amazing that the point is lost every time . No, i would not deny anybody the right to do anything, all i'm saying is, i have the right to still see or refer to them as i believe. See, you can call me anything you like also, thats YOUR right. No part of society is beyond the right to disagree with it. |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi!
I know, it's a really ludicrous idea, surely nobody would ever do this, it's unthinkable. But just out of interest, and hypothetically speaking of course, if this completely non-sensical situation did happen, would you deny that person the right to identify as a woman?
Bess x"
Of course not! My daughter went through hell growing up considering not being here any more! Cutting herself! Not understanding the early years of why she was different from how she was "meant" to be! Was just pointing out its not something someone one morning wakes up and decides ohh today I shall change my gender! X |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi!
I know, it's a really ludicrous idea, surely nobody would ever do this, it's unthinkable. But just out of interest, and hypothetically speaking of course, if this completely non-sensical situation did happen, would you deny that person the right to identify as a woman?
Bess x
Of course not! My daughter went through hell growing up considering not being here any more! Cutting herself! Not understanding the early years of why she was different from how she was "meant" to be! Was just pointing out its not something someone one morning wakes up and decides ohh today I shall change my gender! X"
Exactly! Thats the point, not everyone is the same, its having the freedom to agree and understand some situations and not others. Instead of one over all generalisation that its wrong to criticise, there are nuances. There are real, genuine people who go through hell, then do what makes it right, and I applaud that, but there are the other end of the spectrum that I don't acknowledge or accept, just because they demand it.
If only things were black and white, but they're not. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
Emotions are both a blessing and a curse when it comes to debate.
Emotion provides a lot of insight that can benefit the discussion.
However emotions can blind and limit vision, to see what the opposition is saying and trying to convey. Often (not always) what is seen as an attack or hateful, is actually reason and logic which can only be seen from a distance.
Valid points often dismissed by both sides because they are just unable to detach enough from their own view. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi!
I know, it's a really ludicrous idea, surely nobody would ever do this, it's unthinkable. But just out of interest, and hypothetically speaking of course, if this completely non-sensical situation did happen, would you deny that person the right to identify as a woman?
Bess x
Of course not! My daughter went through hell growing up considering not being here any more! Cutting herself! Not understanding the early years of why she was different from how she was "meant" to be! Was just pointing out its not something someone one morning wakes up and decides ohh today I shall change my gender! X"
Well I'm glad your daughter has come to terms with herself, but it's your last sentence that intrigues me.
"Was just pointing out its not something someone one morning wakes up and decides ohh today I shall change my gender!"
How are you so certain of this? Are there stats or quantifiable proof that this has never happened?
Bess x |
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"You know, anyone can think, or believe what they want, the same as I am allowed to believe they are wrong.
Its like the whole trans 'debate'.
I agree that a guy who wakes up one morning, puts on a wig and wants everyone to refer to him as her, has that right. I, however, have the right to say no, its a guy in a wig.
See how that works? Good, isn't it?
That's really not how transgender happens! Jfyi!
I know, it's a really ludicrous idea, surely nobody would ever do this, it's unthinkable. But just out of interest, and hypothetically speaking of course, if this completely non-sensical situation did happen, would you deny that person the right to identify as a woman?
Bess x
Of course not! My daughter went through hell growing up considering not being here any more! Cutting herself! Not understanding the early years of why she was different from how she was "meant" to be! Was just pointing out its not something someone one morning wakes up and decides ohh today I shall change my gender! X
Well I'm glad your daughter has come to terms with herself, but it's your last sentence that intrigues me.
"Was just pointing out its not something someone one morning wakes up and decides ohh today I shall change my gender!"
How are you so certain of this? Are there stats or quantifiable proof that this has never happened?
Bess x"
That's my opinion having watched her turmoil yes! I'm sure NO ONE would put themselves through the hate they would inevitably receive for the sheer hell of it! As I say my opinion! X |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/"
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it. |
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"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it."
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared. "
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
|
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"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared.
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
"
Is it?
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/katharine-birbalsingh-parents-insist-children-cat-identity-respect/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared.
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
Is it?
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/katharine-birbalsingh-parents-insist-children-cat-identity-respect/"
Ah, it’s Birbalsingh. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared.
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
Is it?
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/katharine-birbalsingh-parents-insist-children-cat-identity-respect/"
If you can't tell the difference between news and opinion then there's nothing more I can say to you. |
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"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared.
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
"
Just because you don't like a view does not mean it is not a legitimate view. As for the article it has been far from factually refuted, its still being investigated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared.
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
Is it?
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/katharine-birbalsingh-parents-insist-children-cat-identity-respect/
Ah, it’s Birbalsingh. "
Lmao nothing in that article is really supportive of your point OP. |
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"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared.
I've already said that debating a view gives it legitimacy. That aside, this article you raised has been factually refuted. It never happened. It is a false flag for the culture warriors.
Is it?
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/katharine-birbalsingh-parents-insist-children-cat-identity-respect/
Ah, it’s Birbalsingh.
Lmao nothing in that article is really supportive of your point OP. "
If youve read the article you can see several examples of debate being shut down. Which is the point of tbe op. So yes it does support the op.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...and, unsurprisingly, it was all bollocks anyway:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/
Doesn't matter, it served its purpose. Red meat for the frothing masses and another salvo in the culture wars. I don't know who I find more problematic. Those that spread this toxic garbage, or those that revel in it.
Rather melodramatic. Surely its a subject that merits debate rather than just adjectives to try and insult people? Which is the whole point of the op. Genuine debate and opinion seems to be feared. "
Bit ironic to use the word melodramatic when you described a tiff between student and teacher as "stifling opinion and debate" |
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