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Is Swinging the ultimate in Women's Liberation
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Women have been fighting for equal rights for ever, is swinging the one thing where true equality exists?
I know some will say that it's in favour of women on here, in that they dictate the sexual rules, but isn't that an "about time" event and actually more down to sheer ratio of men:women? If they get to dictate the rules a little more, doesn't it mean that they can be liberated and explore their sexuality more as well without having to look like Kate Moss (or other generic super model)?
I believe that swinging removes the traditional barriers where men make all the moves and it creates a level playing field where women can now take part without being seen as "sluts"
Discuss 
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights this post just scream of you wanting women to praise you and give you attention
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"some of us just love being seen as sluts"
Perhaps that's part of it, changing the ownership of the word to the person. "I am a slut" rather than "you are a slut?"
Also do you think it's a level playing field for TV/TS as well? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights this post just scream of you wanting women to praise you and give you attention
"
Do women largely have equal rights?
They're paid significantly less than men in most areas for a start?
As for women praising me and giving me attention? Not my intention, but clearly this has pushed your buttons in some way? I've got lots of attention from the person I want it from thanks for your concern. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights this post just scream of you wanting women to praise you and give you attention
Do women largely have equal rights?
They're paid significantly less than men in most areas for a start?
As for women praising me and giving me attention? Not my intention, but clearly this has pushed your buttons in some way? I've got lots of attention from the person I want it from thanks for your concern."
they are paid significantly less are they? can i get a quote for this?
they are paid marginally less but men are also stille xpected to pay a higher cost so it shows that women have on average a higher amount of disposable income than men.
women do better in schools than men in almost all areas and nothing is being suggested to help males in schools.
women get automatic custody in child cases and the divorce courts are heavily biased towards women
men are x8 more likely to commit suicide.
more men die a year to prostate cancer than women to breast cancer and breast cancer gets almost twice the funding.
Male sexual assault and female on male violence is seen as a joke, as portrayed in media in social standards etc
95% of the most dangerous jobs are filled by men
read a book called "the myth of male power" by dr warren farrel. He is an ex feminist who has done a series of inter_iews and books on the subject. I am all for women being treated as equals to men but it seems to not be the case |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Chartered Management Institute has female executives earning £400,000 less over their careers
Women often earn less with same qualifications,because the expectation is that they will care for children and therefore work part time rather than full time. I'd like to see your reference for higher disposible income for women as well?
They are not automatically given custody of children in divorce cases, however they are more likely to have custody.
I seem to have offended you in some way shape or form. Can I suggest you breathe in and out a couple of times and take the post as was originally intended?
Thanks
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"some of us just love being seen as sluts
Perhaps that's part of it, changing the ownership of the word to the person. "I am a slut" rather than "you are a slut?"
Also do you think it's a level playing field for TV/TS as well?"
i dont think its an equal palying field for transgirls, real giorls definately get more attention, for example, at dogging sites, so we have to be just that bit sluttier, which i find very simple to do, and on a site like this, being a slut certainly isnt derogatory |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"some of us just love being seen as sluts
Perhaps that's part of it, changing the ownership of the word to the person. "I am a slut" rather than "you are a slut?"
Also do you think it's a level playing field for TV/TS as well?
i dont think its an equal palying field for transgirls, real giorls definately get more attention, for example, at dogging sites, so we have to be just that bit sluttier, which i find very simple to do, and on a site like this, being a slut certainly isnt derogatory"
I'd certainly agree with that. In fact being a slut on here can be seen as a virtue in some ways |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Chartered Management Institute has female executives earning £400,000 less over their careers
Women often earn less with same qualifications,because the expectation is that they will care for children and therefore work part time rather than full time. I'd like to see your reference for higher disposible income for women as well?
They are not automatically given custody of children in divorce cases, however they are more likely to have custody.
I seem to have offended you in some way shape or form. Can I suggest you breathe in and out a couple of times and take the post as was originally intended?
Thanks
"
you havnt offended me its just an issue that is very close to my heart
and unfortunatly most statistics are from US sources but can be shown across the board for pretty much all westernized countries.
some quotes here http://www.womenspeakworldwide.com/Early-results.htm
"Young women earn more than young men in cities like New York, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Los Angeles and Minneapolis"
"Women from 21 to 30 living in New York City and working full time made 117 percent of men's wages, and even more in Dallas - 120 percent"
"In 1970, New York women in their 20s made $7,000 less than men. In 2005, they were making about $5,000 more""
This ontop of the males in familys tending to have a higher burden of bills. males having to pay child support in joint custody cases, males having higher life insurance car insurance etc
and you seem focused on women having "less pay" but willfully ignorant of 95% of most dangerous jobs are filled by men?
women cannot be conscripted or drafted
your statistics of women earning less than men are warped because of the amount of stay at home mums or mums that work part time to look after kids, they are included in statistics but when it comes to just women and men in full time employment women tend to earn more.
oh also women get the choice of being a stay at home mum where a man would be ridiculed just another example of a double standard |
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"Women have been fighting for equal rights for ever, is swinging the one thing where true equality exists?
I know some will say that it's in favour of women on here, in that they dictate the sexual rules, but isn't that an "about time" event and actually more down to sheer ratio of men:women? If they get to dictate the rules a little more, doesn't it mean that they can be liberated and explore their sexuality more as well without having to look like Kate Moss (or other generic super model)?
I believe that swinging removes the traditional barriers where men make all the moves and it creates a level playing field where women can now take part without being seen as "sluts"
Discuss
"
Where to start......
Kitchen floor I think then put the ironing away.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Umm, no one can be conscripted or drafted in the UK.
95% of dangerous jobs depends on your definition of dangerous jobs?
Police and Army tend to be most front line 27% of police officers are female and although rules on front line military are currently against women taking a front line role, there are significant numbers who do serve in the front line.
if you work in the NHS you're 20% more likely to be physically assaulted in the workplace and by far the largest number of these assaults are on women.
Women are far more likely to be sexually assaulted (and I agree that the issue of female to male assault does need to improve)
The statistics for US cities aren't universally born out across the United States. The cities you refer to (apart from Dallas) are the most cosmopolitan US cities (I've lived in two of them) and they do have a different approach to equality. In 2008, women were earning on average 77% of what men were earning in the US and in fact Equal Pay legislation was blocked (by a predominantly male) Republican party in October 2012.
In this country, women have had to take councils to court to get equality of pay as late as last year.
This is taken from the home office website on pay inequality
"We have conducted research into the causes of the gender pay gap. This found the key factors explaining the pay gap were as follows:
22 per cent of the gap is due to the different industries and occupations in which women work
21 per cent of the gap is due to differences in years of full-time work
16 per cent of the gap is due to the negative effect on wages of having previously worked part-time or of having taken time out of the labour market to look after family
only 5 per cent of the gap is due to formal education levels
But a significant proportion (36 per cent) of the pay gap could not be explained by any of these factors, suggesting discrimination may still be an important factor
We seemed to have travelled quite a way from whether swinging is a level playing field for women? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Umm, no one can be conscripted or drafted in the UK.
95% of dangerous jobs depends on your definition of dangerous jobs?
Police and Army tend to be most front line 27% of police officers are female and although rules on front line military are currently against women taking a front line role, there are significant numbers who do serve in the front line.
if you work in the NHS you're 20% more likely to be physically assaulted in the workplace and by far the largest number of these assaults are on women.
Women are far more likely to be sexually assaulted (and I agree that the issue of female to male assault does need to improve)
The statistics for US cities aren't universally born out across the United States. The cities you refer to (apart from Dallas) are the most cosmopolitan US cities (I've lived in two of them) and they do have a different approach to equality. In 2008, women were earning on average 77% of what men were earning in the US and in fact Equal Pay legislation was blocked (by a predominantly male) Republican party in October 2012.
In this country, women have had to take councils to court to get equality of pay as late as last year.
This is taken from the home office website on pay inequality
"We have conducted research into the causes of the gender pay gap. This found the key factors explaining the pay gap were as follows:
22 per cent of the gap is due to the different industries and occupations in which women work
21 per cent of the gap is due to differences in years of full-time work
16 per cent of the gap is due to the negative effect on wages of having previously worked part-time or of having taken time out of the labour market to look after family
only 5 per cent of the gap is due to formal education levels
But a significant proportion (36 per cent) of the pay gap could not be explained by any of these factors, suggesting discrimination may still be an important factor
We seemed to have travelled quite a way from whether swinging is a level playing field for women?"
95% as in jobs with the highest fatality rate so your talking the likes of military, mines etc.
once againt eh statistics take into account women OVERALL despite the fact that alot of women choose nto to work or work part time, and once again you focus on one issue where i can be potrayed as women being at a disadvantage and say things need to change and ignore the bits where men are at a disadvantage.
One fundamental thing we need to sort out is the women and men are not the same, they have different needs think and behave differently and behave differently so pure equality is ignoring this fact
Honestly i urge you to wacth dr warren farrell he can put ti better than i can, he was part of teh feminist movement way back in the 60s and had devoted his life to gender studies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtGwBsKgKs&list=PLEBD8CF26FDFAD019
he explains and gives statistics on the apparant "wage gap" you bang on about, with referances, on women having a higher disposable income etc etc |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I've had a brief look at his stuff and it's predominantly US based. Much of what he says doesn't apply to the UK or indeed anywhere outside the USA. Don't get me wrong, I see merit in his discussion and yours. I also see that there are areas where the balance is significantly in favour of women. The reality is though that men set the rules and often the agenda. They form the majority of boardrooms at the highest level (source:Institute of Directors 2012), they fulfill the most powerfull roles in Politics, they hold the most senior positions in almost every financial and business sector not just in the UK but globally. The excuses men often then give is that this is their choice. I don't agree with that. I believe that when a girl is presented with her options, not enough of them are given the "you can be CEO of Barclays" and more of them are given "oh won't you have a beautiful wedding"
Having said all that, I do also see that the "you can be CEO of Barclays" is normally not given to males from a working class background or from disadvantaged backgrounds either.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've had a brief look at his stuff and it's predominantly US based. Much of what he says doesn't apply to the UK or indeed anywhere outside the USA. Don't get me wrong, I see merit in his discussion and yours. I also see that there are areas where the balance is significantly in favour of women. The reality is though that men set the rules and often the agenda. They form the majority of boardrooms at the highest level (source:Institute of Directors 2012), they fulfill the most powerfull roles in Politics, they hold the most senior positions in almost every financial and business sector not just in the UK but globally. The excuses men often then give is that this is their choice. I don't agree with that. I believe that when a girl is presented with her options, not enough of them are given the "you can be CEO of Barclays" and more of them are given "oh won't you have a beautiful wedding"
Having said all that, I do also see that the "you can be CEO of Barclays" is normally not given to males from a working class background or from disadvantaged backgrounds either.
"
alot of women also choose the "wedding" as well and one thing, a major thing, that pisses me off about modern day feminism is that i see it limiting the choices of women instead of freeing them. Women feel almost obligated that they should go out now and feminists look down on those that WANT to stay at home.
and your saying at top level its men dominated but at bottom level its also alot of men as poitned out by them having far more fatalities in workplace |
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"an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights this post just scream of you wanting women to praise you and give you attention
"
 |
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"I've had a brief look at his stuff and it's predominantly US based. Much of what he says doesn't apply to the UK or indeed anywhere outside the USA. Don't get me wrong, I see merit in his discussion and yours. I also see that there are areas where the balance is significantly in favour of women. The reality is though that men set the rules and often the agenda. They form the majority of boardrooms at the highest level (source:Institute of Directors 2012), they fulfill the most powerfull roles in Politics, they hold the most senior positions in almost every financial and business sector not just in the UK but globally. The excuses men often then give is that this is their choice. I don't agree with that. I believe that when a girl is presented with her options, not enough of them are given the "you can be CEO of Barclays" and more of them are given "oh won't you have a beautiful wedding"
Having said all that, I do also see that the "you can be CEO of Barclays" is normally not given to males from a working class background or from disadvantaged backgrounds either.
alot of women also choose the "wedding" as well and one thing, a major thing, that pisses me off about modern day feminism is that i see it limiting the choices of women instead of freeing them. Women feel almost obligated that they should go out now and feminists look down on those that WANT to stay at home.
and your saying at top level its men dominated but at bottom level its also alot of men as poitned out by them having far more fatalities in workplace"
Not so |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights this post just scream of you wanting women to praise you and give you attention
"
Are you giving a thumbs up to me wanting praise and attention? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've had a brief look at his stuff and it's predominantly US based. Much of what he says doesn't apply to the UK or indeed anywhere outside the USA. Don't get me wrong, I see merit in his discussion and yours. I also see that there are areas where the balance is significantly in favour of women. The reality is though that men set the rules and often the agenda. They form the majority of boardrooms at the highest level (source:Institute of Directors 2012), they fulfill the most powerfull roles in Politics, they hold the most senior positions in almost every financial and business sector not just in the UK but globally. The excuses men often then give is that this is their choice. I don't agree with that. I believe that when a girl is presented with her options, not enough of them are given the "you can be CEO of Barclays" and more of them are given "oh won't you have a beautiful wedding"
Having said all that, I do also see that the "you can be CEO of Barclays" is normally not given to males from a working class background or from disadvantaged backgrounds either.
alot of women also choose the "wedding" as well and one thing, a major thing, that pisses me off about modern day feminism is that i see it limiting the choices of women instead of freeing them. Women feel almost obligated that they should go out now and feminists look down on those that WANT to stay at home.
and your saying at top level its men dominated but at bottom level its also alot of men as poitned out by them having far more fatalities in workplace
Not so"
thank you for your clarity and insight backed up by a logical argument with sources |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've had a brief look at his stuff and it's predominantly US based. Much of what he says doesn't apply to the UK or indeed anywhere outside the USA. Don't get me wrong, I see merit in his discussion and yours. I also see that there are areas where the balance is significantly in favour of women. The reality is though that men set the rules and often the agenda. They form the majority of boardrooms at the highest level (source:Institute of Directors 2012), they fulfill the most powerfull roles in Politics, they hold the most senior positions in almost every financial and business sector not just in the UK but globally. The excuses men often then give is that this is their choice. I don't agree with that. I believe that when a girl is presented with her options, not enough of them are given the "you can be CEO of Barclays" and more of them are given "oh won't you have a beautiful wedding"
Having said all that, I do also see that the "you can be CEO of Barclays" is normally not given to males from a working class background or from disadvantaged backgrounds either.
alot of women also choose the "wedding" as well and one thing, a major thing, that pisses me off about modern day feminism is that i see it limiting the choices of women instead of freeing them. Women feel almost obligated that they should go out now and feminists look down on those that WANT to stay at home.
and your saying at top level its men dominated but at bottom level its also alot of men as poitned out by them having far more fatalities in workplace
Not so"
Now we have some agreement! I also get pissed off when people look down on those who choose to stay at home amle or female. Don't get me wrong, one of his arguments with the Feminist movement and gender studies in particular was that they looked down (demonised I think was the word used) upon men rather than including them in the "gender studies". It very much reminded me of when I was at uni there was a group of radical feminists who "reclaimed the night". When challenged they realised that many of the places they were trying to reclaim for themselves is somewhere none of the blokes would go to after dark either.
The reality is though, for a woman to gain advancement in certain male dominated fields it is often more difficult than for a man. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights "
So perhaps to rephrase the initial discussion question
Does swinging take the womens movement from "largely having equal rights" all the way to "having equal rights"?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"an "about time" they dictate something? because they are always behind men?
women already largely have equal rights
So perhaps to rephrase the initial discussion question
Does swinging take the womens movement from "largely having equal rights" all the way to "having equal rights"?
"
swinging isnt really accepted by the masses and you can lose your jobs if you have a certain profession due to it, it also is part of far too few woman's lifes to really make any impact at all on their rights
so no |
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