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Egard advert, controversial?
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
With all the hoohah surrounding Dylan and the bud light commercial, and with the woke vs antiwoke war raging hard, it’s really not surprising that the opposite side are fighting back.
I’m really not sure what the advert is actually promoting with regards to their watches, but it’s guaranteed click bait.
Thoughts on the below?
https://youtu.be/H5XrTxzr2Wg |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"What that got to do with watches? "
I really have no idea. Could argue they’re wanting to target a certain demographic, much like the Bud Light ad. Let’s be honest it’s for the furore and publicity it’ll bring. |
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"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it. "
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them."
Yup I completely agree. They should be allowed to compete just not against biological females.
I’m really not sure what the best solution is either. |
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"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
Yup I completely agree. They should be allowed to compete just not against biological females.
I’m really not sure what the best solution is either."
I'm also not sure what the solution is tbf. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them."
I agree, and so does Caitlyn Jenner, possibly the most qualified person on the planet on this subject. Also, there is a distinct lack of female to male transgender athletes who have made any headway in male sports. Many sports governing bodies are waking up to this injustice and have put bans on male to female transgendered competitors in women's sports. UK Athletics proposes that transgender women compete in an "open" category, which would replace the current male category and be open to athletes of all sexes, while reserving the women's category for competitors that were female at birth. I feel that this is a viable solution.
Bess x |
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I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate."
What stuff are you referring to? |
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"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
What stuff are you referring to? "
The advert you linked. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
What stuff are you referring to?
The advert you linked."
Ah yea, but it’s no different to the Dylan Mulvaney ad for me. Both daft ideas. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate."
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x"
Spot on! Should be able to have an adult discussion without chucking the phobic and isms at people.  |
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"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
What stuff are you referring to?
The advert you linked.
Ah yea, but it’s no different to the Dylan Mulvaney ad for me. Both daft ideas."
Yeah true. They were both daft ideas, made by companies that probably don't give two shits about the issues but see a quick way to make money.
But the difference I see is the bud lights ad campaign was about inclusivity and this ad seems more geared towards pointing fingers. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
What stuff are you referring to?
The advert you linked.
Ah yea, but it’s no different to the Dylan Mulvaney ad for me. Both daft ideas.
Yeah true. They were both daft ideas, made by companies that probably don't give two shits about the issues but see a quick way to make money.
But the difference I see is the bud lights ad campaign was about inclusivity and this ad seems more geared towards pointing fingers."
Wouldn’t say it’s pointing fingers at all. Just like the bud advert it’s been done purely for the publicity.
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"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x"
I agree. A mature discussion on the subject would be great.
That doesn't change the fact that it perpetuates hate though. They've concocted a story about a young girl having her dreams dashed by the evil trans woman. Doesn't exactly shout mature.
Instead could they not have put forward some interesting ideas on some changes that could benefit everyone? |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x
I agree. A mature discussion on the subject would be great.
That doesn't change the fact that it perpetuates hate though. They've concocted a story about a young girl having her dreams dashed by the evil trans woman. Doesn't exactly shout mature.
Instead could they not have put forward some interesting ideas on some changes that could benefit everyone?"
It really doesn’t perpetuate hate and it’s not a concocted story, it’s a legitimate concern for A LOT of biological female athletes, and rightly so.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x
I agree. A mature discussion on the subject would be great.
That doesn't change the fact that it perpetuates hate though. They've concocted a story about a young girl having her dreams dashed by the evil trans woman. Doesn't exactly shout mature.
Instead could they not have put forward some interesting ideas on some changes that could benefit everyone?
It really doesn’t perpetuate hate and it’s not a concocted story, it’s a legitimate concern for A LOT of biological female athletes, and rightly so.
"
 Ask Riley Gaines, or any of the biologically born female competitors beaten by Lia Thomas or Emily Bridges. The list goes on and will just get longer until biologically born female competitors are shoved out of the way completely. Inclusivity is all well and good, but it shouldn't usurp fairness in sports. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x
I agree. A mature discussion on the subject would be great.
That doesn't change the fact that it perpetuates hate though. They've concocted a story about a young girl having her dreams dashed by the evil trans woman. Doesn't exactly shout mature.
Instead could they not have put forward some interesting ideas on some changes that could benefit everyone?
It really doesn’t perpetuate hate and it’s not a concocted story, it’s a legitimate concern for A LOT of biological female athletes, and rightly so.
Ask Riley Gaines, or any of the biologically born female competitors beaten by Lia Thomas or Emily Bridges. The list goes on and will just get longer until biologically born female competitors are shoved out of the way completely. Inclusivity is all well and good, but it shouldn't usurp fairness in sports."
Could also argue it’s less inclusive as doesn’t give biological females a fair crack. |
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By *rder66Man
over a year ago
Tatooine |
"With all the hoohah surrounding Dylan and the bud light commercial, and with the woke vs antiwoke war raging hard, it’s really not surprising that the opposite side are fighting back.
I’m really not sure what the advert is actually promoting with regards to their watches, but it’s guaranteed click bait.
Thoughts on the below?
https://youtu.be/H5XrTxzr2Wg"
It must be working then if you are talking about it and pasting a link for others to watch. |
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"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x
I agree. A mature discussion on the subject would be great.
That doesn't change the fact that it perpetuates hate though. They've concocted a story about a young girl having her dreams dashed by the evil trans woman. Doesn't exactly shout mature.
Instead could they not have put forward some interesting ideas on some changes that could benefit everyone?
It really doesn’t perpetuate hate and it’s not a concocted story, it’s a legitimate concern for A LOT of biological female athletes, and rightly so.
"
Having trans women as the villain of the story doesn't perpetuate hate?
With the current fragile state of trans issues, it's not exactly helping. |
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"I agree that it's a tricky situation.
We want inclusivity. And we want fairness. So it needs to be thought about for sure.
But stuff like this only serves to turn people against trans people. It just perpetuates hate.
I don't think it perpetuates hate. I think it promotes discussion. Any discussion on this topic rapidly turns to the usual accusations of hatred and/or transphobia on this forum. It would be a refreshing change if it could be discussed in a more mature way.
Bess x
I agree. A mature discussion on the subject would be great.
That doesn't change the fact that it perpetuates hate though. They've concocted a story about a young girl having her dreams dashed by the evil trans woman. Doesn't exactly shout mature.
Instead could they not have put forward some interesting ideas on some changes that could benefit everyone?
It really doesn’t perpetuate hate and it’s not a concocted story, it’s a legitimate concern for A LOT of biological female athletes, and rightly so.
Ask Riley Gaines, or any of the biologically born female competitors beaten by Lia Thomas or Emily Bridges. The list goes on and will just get longer until biologically born female competitors are shoved out of the way completely. Inclusivity is all well and good, but it shouldn't usurp fairness in sports."
As I stated earlier I agree on that point.
That's not the issue I was discussing. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
Having trans women as the villain of the story doesn't perpetuate hate?
With the current fragile state of trans issues, it's not exactly helping."
It hasn’t portrayed them as villains, it’s simply pointing out that it’s not fair. You may feel that way and thats cool, doesn’t make it correct though.
|
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"
Having trans women as the villain of the story doesn't perpetuate hate?
With the current fragile state of trans issues, it's not exactly helping.
It hasn’t portrayed them as villains, it’s simply pointing out that it’s not fair. You may feel that way and thats cool, doesn’t make it correct though.
"
It kinda has. Watch the way it's edited. Inspirational music until the trans women appear then it changes to more sinister music.
The close up of the trans women with a beard showing through, just to get the point across that she isn't a real woman.
It's basic media manipulation. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
Having trans women as the villain of the story doesn't perpetuate hate?
With the current fragile state of trans issues, it's not exactly helping.
It hasn’t portrayed them as villains, it’s simply pointing out that it’s not fair. You may feel that way and thats cool, doesn’t make it correct though.
It kinda has. Watch the way it's edited. Inspirational music until the trans women appear then it changes to more sinister music.
The close up of the trans women with a beard showing through, just to get the point across that she isn't a real woman.
It's basic media manipulation. "
If you took it that way then fair enough. Didn’t see any mention of “real women” whatever that means, it hasn’t said trans women shouldn’t compete and hasn’t said anything about their transition.
It’s provoking, but that’s the point. |
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"
Having trans women as the villain of the story doesn't perpetuate hate?
With the current fragile state of trans issues, it's not exactly helping.
It hasn’t portrayed them as villains, it’s simply pointing out that it’s not fair. You may feel that way and thats cool, doesn’t make it correct though.
It kinda has. Watch the way it's edited. Inspirational music until the trans women appear then it changes to more sinister music.
The close up of the trans women with a beard showing through, just to get the point across that she isn't a real woman.
It's basic media manipulation.
If you took it that way then fair enough. Didn’t see any mention of “real women” whatever that means, it hasn’t said trans women shouldn’t compete and hasn’t said anything about their transition.
It’s provoking, but that’s the point."
It's not about what I take away from it. I can see that bullshit a mile away.
It's what the general population and the easily manipulated take away.
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I think if you watch Egard adverts, they're all thought provoking.
There's a real discussion to be had around this but honestly, I feel unless we can see past 'You're hating' then we're never gonna get anywhere. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
It's not about what I take away from it. I can see that bullshit a mile away.
It's what the general population and the easily manipulated take away.
"
Sorry I don’t know what you’re getting at with that point.
Some will take it as hate towards trans, some won’t. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I think if you watch Egard adverts, they're all thought provoking.
There's a real discussion to be had around this but honestly, I feel unless we can see past 'You're hating' then we're never gonna get anywhere. "
Instantly shuts down discourse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With the current fragile state of trans issues, it's not exactly helping."
When will there not be "fragility" from trans lobbyists over trans women competing in biological women's sports? When it's too late and precedent becomes the rule? |
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"I think if you watch Egard adverts, they're all thought provoking.
There's a real discussion to be had around this but honestly, I feel unless we can see past 'You're hating' then we're never gonna get anywhere. "
Well we all agree that the main issue the ad was trying to put across is certainly something that needs changing.
It's the way they did it that concerns me.
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here."
Care to explain how please? |
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"
It's not about what I take away from it. I can see that bullshit a mile away.
It's what the general population and the easily manipulated take away.
Sorry I don’t know what you’re getting at with that point.
Some will take it as hate towards trans, some won’t."
Well surely we would like ads where no one comes away with hate towards anyone?
Haha maybe I'm living in a fantasy world. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
It's not about what I take away from it. I can see that bullshit a mile away.
It's what the general population and the easily manipulated take away.
Sorry I don’t know what you’re getting at with that point.
Some will take it as hate towards trans, some won’t.
Well surely we would like ads where no one comes away with hate towards anyone?
Haha maybe I'm living in a fantasy world."
Again I don’t think there’s been any “hate”. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?"
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words. |
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here."
Who is bringing hatred here?
Maybe we should just sweep the issues under the carpet? These are real issues |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here."
Well that's shut down any discussion hasn't it. And just for posting the link someone is bringing hatred.  |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words."
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Who is bringing hatred here?
Maybe we should just sweep the issues under the carpet? These are real issues"
The people bringing adverts promoting hatred towards trans people to Fab are bringing that hatred here. It says precisely that in the post you quoted. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please. "
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear. |
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Who is bringing hatred here?
Maybe we should just sweep the issues under the carpet? These are real issues
The people bringing adverts promoting hatred towards trans people to Fab are bringing that hatred here. It says precisely that in the post you quoted."
It's an advert brought here to open discussion.
However, I now know, never ever discuss trans-women/cis-women issues.
|
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Well that's shut down any discussion hasn't it. And just for posting the link someone is bringing hatred. "
Yes - by posting the link, they are spreading hatred towards trans people. They didn’t have to post it, that was their choice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Well that's shut down any discussion hasn't it. And just for posting the link someone is bringing hatred.
Yes - by posting the link, they are spreading hatred towards trans people. They didn’t have to post it, that was their choice."
I disagree. I see no hate. I see women being told to shut up. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please.
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear."
So you’re saying there should be zero discussion on these topics? Would you say I hate trans women then?
Perhaps read what people have said and you’ll see there has been zero hate, just discourse. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Who is bringing hatred here?
Maybe we should just sweep the issues under the carpet? These are real issues
The people bringing adverts promoting hatred towards trans people to Fab are bringing that hatred here. It says precisely that in the post you quoted.
It's an advert brought here to open discussion.
However, I now know, never ever discuss trans-women/cis-women issues.
"
God forbid trying to start an adult discussion on sensitive, real world, issues…..  |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please.
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear.
So you’re saying there should be zero discussion on these topics? Would you say I hate trans women then?
Perhaps read what people have said and you’ll see there has been zero hate, just discourse. "
Discourse based entirely on an advertisement spreading hatred towards trans women, and bringing that same advert here, which is spreading that hatred.
Well done on your ‘discourse’. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please.
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear.
So you’re saying there should be zero discussion on these topics? Would you say I hate trans women then?
Perhaps read what people have said and you’ll see there has been zero hate, just discourse.
Discourse based entirely on an advertisement spreading hatred towards trans women, and bringing that same advert here, which is spreading that hatred.
Well done on your ‘discourse’. "
Again no one in here has spread any hate. Anyway back to the discourse; do you think trans women should be allowed to compete against biological females? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
I agree, and so does Caitlyn Jenner, possibly the most qualified person on the planet on this subject. Also, there is a distinct lack of female to male transgender athletes who have made any headway in male sports. Many sports governing bodies are waking up to this injustice and have put bans on male to female transgendered competitors in women's sports. UK Athletics proposes that transgender women compete in an "open" category, which would replace the current male category and be open to athletes of all sexes, while reserving the women's category for competitors that were female at birth. I feel that this is a viable solution.
Bess x"
I think replacing the male category with an open one seems a workable solution IMO, but it's going to be sport-specific I imagine? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here."
No, you're wrong. The advert is quite clearly showing the hatred that trans women have for biologically born women by dominating them whilst competing unfairly against them in sports. If you want to bring hatred in to this discussion, there it is. |
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please.
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear.
So you’re saying there should be zero discussion on these topics? Would you say I hate trans women then?
Perhaps read what people have said and you’ll see there has been zero hate, just discourse.
Discourse based entirely on an advertisement spreading hatred towards trans women, and bringing that same advert here, which is spreading that hatred.
Well done on your ‘discourse’.
Again no one in here has spread any hate. Anyway back to the discourse; do you think trans women should be allowed to compete against biological females?"
Seems like a skill issue. Maybe women just need to 'git gud'.
This is absolutely a joke! Don't lynch me. |
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"
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
I agree, and so does Caitlyn Jenner, possibly the most qualified person on the planet on this subject. Also, there is a distinct lack of female to male transgender athletes who have made any headway in male sports. Many sports governing bodies are waking up to this injustice and have put bans on male to female transgendered competitors in women's sports. UK Athletics proposes that transgender women compete in an "open" category, which would replace the current male category and be open to athletes of all sexes, while reserving the women's category for competitors that were female at birth. I feel that this is a viable solution.
Bess x
I think replacing the male category with an open one seems a workable solution IMO, but it's going to be sport-specific I imagine? "
Maybe rather than replace the male category we could have male and open?
That would then give a chance for those men who are good but not quite good enough. Or women who are by far and away better than their category.
Just trying to be inclusive here. |
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
No, you're wrong. The advert is quite clearly showing the hatred that trans women have for biologically born women by dominating them whilst competing unfairly against them in sports. If you want to bring hatred in to this discussion, there it is. "
Can we not start that please. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Here's a very poignant and relevant article on this subject.
https://nypost.com/2019/10/13/justice-for-trans-athletes-is-unfair-to-girls-like-my-daughter/
Bess x
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
No, you're wrong. The advert is quite clearly showing the hatred that trans women have for biologically born women by dominating them whilst competing unfairly against them in sports. If you want to bring hatred in to this discussion, there it is.
Can we not start that please."
Please don't dictate to me how I should contribute to an open forum thread. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them."
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights. "
Every piece of scientific data I’ve read has been very clear on the advantages. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"In sports such as boxing/fighting they have weight/skill classes.
Maybe they could implement something similar into other sports? Though I'm not sure if that would work for some sports."
It’s getting to a point where people will just say everyone should just compete with everyone regardless of gender. See how that goes…  |
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"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights. "
The science is not unclear according to the BMJ.
If you can show me any sources that suggest trans-women don't have a physical edge on cis-women I'm more than happy to read them. |
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"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
No, you're wrong. The advert is quite clearly showing the hatred that trans women have for biologically born women by dominating them whilst competing unfairly against them in sports. If you want to bring hatred in to this discussion, there it is.
Can we not start that please.
Please don't dictate to me how I should contribute to an open forum thread."
Who is dictating? I said please |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
No, you're wrong. The advert is quite clearly showing the hatred that trans women have for biologically born women by dominating them whilst competing unfairly against them in sports. If you want to bring hatred in to this discussion, there it is. "
I don't think I agree. I think there's entitlement and arrogance (Lia Thomas seems a good example). I don't see hatred from trans women in terms of sport. What makes you say that? |
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"In sports such as boxing/fighting they have weight/skill classes.
Maybe they could implement something similar into other sports? Though I'm not sure if that would work for some sports.
It’s getting to a point where people will just say everyone should just compete with everyone regardless of gender. See how that goes… "
Doesn't sound so bad. I know plenty of women who could kick my arse up and down the ring.
|
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights.
The science is not unclear according to the BMJ.
If you can show me any sources that suggest trans-women don't have a physical edge on cis-women I'm more than happy to read them."
Google "study showing trans competitors have no advantage in sport"
Like I say there's enough evidence there to suggest both sides have a case.
But I'll reiterate there is plenty of studies from women in sport where the issue if trans competitors dies nit even get a mention when duscussing obstacles to accessing sport |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I watched it and didnt see hating, nor did it generate any hate in me. I did see a raising of an issue around a perceived erosion of biological women's identity in favour of another group and the impact of this, but that's just my take on it. We should not have to take from one group on order to support another,that generates bad feeling. I am a believer in do what's best for you but should the identity of one group have to be taken away in order to 'see' the other? |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I watched it and didnt see hating, nor did it generate any hate in me. I did see a raising of an issue around a perceived erosion of biological women's identity in favour of another group and the impact of this, but that's just my take on it. We should not have to take from one group on order to support another,that generates bad feeling. I am a believer in do what's best for you but should the identity of one group have to be taken away in order to 'see' the other?"
This is the sort of insight I was hoping for, thank you. |
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"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights.
The science is not unclear according to the BMJ.
If you can show me any sources that suggest trans-women don't have a physical edge on cis-women I'm more than happy to read them.
Google "study showing trans competitors have no advantage in sport"
Like I say there's enough evidence there to suggest both sides have a case.
But I'll reiterate there is plenty of studies from women in sport where the issue if trans competitors dies nit even get a mention when duscussing obstacles to accessing sport"
I could Google it or you could provide some sources.
Of course women have other obstacles, that's not in dispute. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights.
The science is not unclear according to the BMJ.
If you can show me any sources that suggest trans-women don't have a physical edge on cis-women I'm more than happy to read them.
Google "study showing trans competitors have no advantage in sport"
Like I say there's enough evidence there to suggest both sides have a case.
But I'll reiterate there is plenty of studies from women in sport where the issue if trans competitors dies nit even get a mention when duscussing obstacles to accessing sport
I could Google it or you could provide some sources.
Of course women have other obstacles, that's not in dispute."
Unfortunately the forum urules don't make sharing sources that simple |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights. "
That's just not accurate. There is no peer reviewed evidence that there's no advantage to go through male puberty. And plenty of peer reviewed evidence saying that there is significant advantage. Eg Hilton et all, Knox et al. |
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"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights.
The science is not unclear according to the BMJ.
If you can show me any sources that suggest trans-women don't have a physical edge on cis-women I'm more than happy to read them.
Google "study showing trans competitors have no advantage in sport"
Like I say there's enough evidence there to suggest both sides have a case.
But I'll reiterate there is plenty of studies from women in sport where the issue if trans competitors dies nit even get a mention when duscussing obstacles to accessing sport
I could Google it or you could provide some sources.
Of course women have other obstacles, that's not in dispute.
Unfortunately the forum urules don't make sharing sources that simple "
That's a serious cop out. Btw, I google, I found one report from Canada, nothing else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them.
The science is unclear. There are plenty of reports suggesting the opposite too.
What is clear is that given that only a very small handful of trans competitors have ever gained a significant result globally in any sport even at national level.
And what is also clear is those trying to "save" women's sport seem focused on one very specific argument and not the many issues women identify as issues in female sport.
Trans in sport, particularly in America is just a populist argument on wjst is a far, far more sinister legislative attack on trans rights.
The science is not unclear according to the BMJ.
If you can show me any sources that suggest trans-women don't have a physical edge on cis-women I'm more than happy to read them.
Google "study showing trans competitors have no advantage in sport"
Like I say there's enough evidence there to suggest both sides have a case.
But I'll reiterate there is plenty of studies from women in sport where the issue if trans competitors dies nit even get a mention when duscussing obstacles to accessing sport
I could Google it or you could provide some sources.
Of course women have other obstacles, that's not in dispute.
Unfortunately the forum urules don't make sharing sources that simple
That's a serious cop out. Btw, I google, I found one report from Canada, nothing else."
The report from Canada is a scientific literature review. It's not peer reviewed research. A group of academics have written a rebuttal since it was published by CCES. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The report from the BMJ says:-
"Transwomen retain an advantage in upper body strength (push-ups) over female controls for 1–2 years after starting gender affirming hormones.
Transwomen retain an advantage in endurance (1.5 mile run) over female controls for over 2 years after starting gender affirming hormones."
Note that the second paragraph states "over" 2 years.
Bess x |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please.
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear.
So you’re saying there should be zero discussion on these topics? Would you say I hate trans women then?
Perhaps read what people have said and you’ll see there has been zero hate, just discourse.
Discourse based entirely on an advertisement spreading hatred towards trans women, and bringing that same advert here, which is spreading that hatred.
Well done on your ‘discourse’.
Again no one in here has spread any hate. Anyway back to the discourse; do you think trans women should be allowed to compete against biological females?"
Still waiting on a response to this, but i can almost guarantee won’t get one. Rather scream HAAAATE and back to their echo chamber.  |
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To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people. "
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people. "
Whilst I agree that trans-women are women. I do not agree that they are they same as cis-women.
As I've said previously, the science tells me they hold a physical advantage so in competitive sports, that's an unfair advantage, that's not right. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
Whilst I agree that trans-women are women. I do not agree that they are they same as cis-women.
As I've said previously, the science tells me they hold a physical advantage so in competitive sports, that's an unfair advantage, that's not right. "
Exactly how I feel about it too, but apparently that somehow transphobic.  |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there."
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
|
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
"
Well they’re either the same, or they’re not when it comes to sports. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
"
Do you feel right in allowing someone, forget the gender for a moment, have an unfair biological advantage over another competitor?
|
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
Well they’re either the same, or they’re not when it comes to sports. "
It's where you draw the line. This year they can't compete in womens sports, maybe next year they can't use the womens bathroom. (I'm obviously exaggerating but you get my point) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
"
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
Well they’re either the same, or they’re not when it comes to sports.
It's where you draw the line. This year they can't compete in womens sports, maybe next year they can't use the womens bathroom. (I'm obviously exaggerating but you get my point) "
I actually don’t get your point. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
Do you feel right in allowing someone, forget the gender for a moment, have an unfair biological advantage over another competitor?
"
Well we all have different biological advantages in one way or another.
|
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
Do you feel right in allowing someone, forget the gender for a moment, have an unfair biological advantage over another competitor?
Well we all have different biological advantages in one way or another.
"
We do, however, every single trans-woman would have an unfair biological advantage over every single cis-women.
We're not talking about individuals, we're talking about collectives. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female."
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not actually sure what they're promoting here...
That trans-women shouldn't be competing in women's sport?
That’s what I took away from it.
Well I'll throw it out there right now... I'm looking for a few more to block me.
Trans-women who have gone through puberty as men should not compete in women's sport. No sir, not interested in opinions, the science says they are physically at an advantage and that's enough for me to exclude them."
This for a female athlete to spend fifteen years or so with high levels of testosterone and then ‘transition’ and say they are female ….. fine as long as you don’t compete in anyway shape or form, but in reality make to female athletes have had the best form of ‘doping testosterone’ known to man and then they can compete, my arse, be who you wanna be but there’s rules in sport and MtF are breaking all of them |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
Well they’re either the same, or they’re not when it comes to sports.
It's where you draw the line. This year they can't compete in womens sports, maybe next year they can't use the womens bathroom. (I'm obviously exaggerating but you get my point)
I actually don’t get your point."
Thats okay.
'head pat' |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference."
Really? The science women even help you?
That's the issue you have here |
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"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem."
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it."
Right so if science says trans women have a clear advantage over cis women, you still feel they should be allowed to compete with cis women? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference."
Of course it won't make a difference |
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"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it."
It's not about feelings though. It's about how it can be fair for all athletes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it."
"Feelings" have no place in science. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people. "
I agree with you in regards to trans women are women. But they are also biological men who have transitioned.
Biological men have an advantage over biological women in sport.
These are the facts.
It’s not fair on a biological woman to train and be the best only to be beaten by a biological man who has transitioned, in the same way that it’s not fair on a trans woman to be excluded from women sport.
The open class sounds fair on the surface, but by placing a trans woman who has gone through transitioning with hormones etc at a disadvantage, also making it not fair.
I don’t know what the answer is, but it seems that whatever the outcome, it won’t be fair. |
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"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it.
Right so if science says trans women have a clear advantage over cis women, you still feel they should be allowed to compete with cis women?"
Well i've been arguing for both sides but yes, i think if both trans women and women agree can agree to compete together and have the choice then why not. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it.
Right so if science says trans women have a clear advantage over cis women, you still feel they should be allowed to compete with cis women?
Well i've been arguing for both sides but yes, i think if both trans women and women agree can agree to compete together and have the choice then why not."
They don’t all agree. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To all those who feel MtF should be allowed to compete in sports, take UFC, you are telling me you are fine with a woman going into an octagon with essentially what used to be a male, denser bones thicker cartiledge/tendon, more muscle fibres per volume because essentially that’s what a male is compared to a female now yes there are females that have more testosterone than other females therefore when it comes to sports have the physical advantage just as there males with less testosterone than what is considered normal, males fighting females professionally does not exist purely because of this fact, none of us would accept this as normal and anyone who does in the name of fairness is not actually consenting the ramifications |
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By *addad99Man
over a year ago
Rotherham /newquay |
"If it’s including trans people in an advertisement for any other reason than encouraging their inclusion and acceptance, it’s spreading hatred towards them - as are the people that are bringing that hatred here.
Care to explain how please?
What needs explaining? You quoted all the words.
Explain where there’s been any hate in here please.
Try reading the post carefully, it is perfectly clear.
So you’re saying there should be zero discussion on these topics? Would you say I hate trans women then?
Perhaps read what people have said and you’ll see there has been zero hate, just discourse.
Discourse based entirely on an advertisement spreading hatred towards trans women, and bringing that same advert here, which is spreading that hatred.
Well done on your ‘discourse’.
Again no one in here has spread any hate. Anyway back to the discourse; do you think trans women should be allowed to compete against biological females?"
no |
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"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it.
Right so if science says trans women have a clear advantage over cis women, you still feel they should be allowed to compete with cis women?
Well i've been arguing for both sides but yes, i think if both trans women and women agree can agree to compete together and have the choice then why not.
They don’t all agree."
I know, and i agree with you all!
I'm trying to find middle ground here.
|
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"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it.
"Feelings" have no place in science."
Countless scientific atrocities can account for that. |
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Just as an interesting aside…
Athletes caught doping are no longer given lifetime bans, I believe it tends to be 5 year suspension’s maximum but could be wrong on this…..
So if it’s ok for non-trans athletes to gain an unfair advantage while reaching their peak, as long as they’re then clean for 5 years, why can the same not be applied to Trans athletes? No competition until 5 years post transition?
I’d wager that the advantages for both groups in this scenario would be broadly equivalent |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it.
"Feelings" have no place in science.
Countless scientific atrocities can account for that."
Feelings are for scientists, not for science. There's a difference. |
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"
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
You won’t believe in science? Therein lies the problem.
haha i believe in science. i'm not an idiot. But in this instance it doesn't have any bearing on how i feel about it.
"Feelings" have no place in science.
Countless scientific atrocities can account for that.
Feelings are for scientists, not for science. There's a difference."
Aren't emotions just neural impulses that moves an organism to action, prompting automatic reactive behavior that has been adapted through evolution as a survival mechanism to meet a survival need.
yay science. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just as an interesting aside…
Athletes caught doping are no longer given lifetime bans, I believe it tends to be 5 year suspension’s maximum but could be wrong on this…..
So if it’s ok for non-trans athletes to gain an unfair advantage while reaching their peak, as long as they’re then clean for 5 years, why can the same not be applied to Trans athletes? No competition until 5 years post transition?
I’d wager that the advantages for both groups in this scenario would be broadly equivalent "
They arent equivalent at all, proven fact, if a male and female athlete start training at age ten by the time they are 16 the body composition in terms of bone mass and strength is wildly different, for a female to get to that level you are looking at levels of testosterone only seen in short life bodybuilders because the heart cannot take that amount, it’s madness |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference."
I quoted two papers further up the thread. Trans women have an advantage. They identify as women in terms of gender. But sometimes biological sex matters. And it matters in sport. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
I quoted two papers further up the thread. Trans women have an advantage. They identify as women in terms of gender. But sometimes biological sex matters. And it matters in sport. "
Yeah i know. I never said it didn't. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Just as an interesting aside…
Athletes caught doping are no longer given lifetime bans, I believe it tends to be 5 year suspension’s maximum but could be wrong on this…..
So if it’s ok for non-trans athletes to gain an unfair advantage while reaching their peak, as long as they’re then clean for 5 years, why can the same not be applied to Trans athletes? No competition until 5 years post transition?
I’d wager that the advantages for both groups in this scenario would be broadly equivalent "
Dopers get between a 2 and 4 year ban depending on how helpful they are. 4 years is the max. Simply admitting guilt early in the process is enough in some cases to get a year off.
Anyone returning to elite sport is only expected to be available for out of competition testing for 6 months.
So ignore the morals of using cheats as a benchmark the length of time is so varied it just wouldn't work |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
I quoted two papers further up the thread. Trans women have an advantage. They identify as women in terms of gender. But sometimes biological sex matters. And it matters in sport.
Yeah i know. I never said it didn't."
You said you're looking for middle ground. But there isn't. There's inclusion OR fairness in sport. Not both. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites. |
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"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
I quoted two papers further up the thread. Trans women have an advantage. They identify as women in terms of gender. But sometimes biological sex matters. And it matters in sport.
Yeah i know. I never said it didn't.
You said you're looking for middle ground. But there isn't. There's inclusion OR fairness in sport. Not both. "
That's a pretty defeatist attitude! lets sit down and figure it out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To me trans women are women regardless of if they were born that way or not.
To tell a woman that she can't compete with other women seems unfair in its own right. They are a woman, that's who they are.
Equally i agree that on some occassions they would have an advantage, and that is unfair aswell.
The question is how do you keep it fair while not segredating people.
If trans women are the same as cis women why would they hold an advantage?
So far the best solution I’ve seen is the open category mentioned in this thread. I do think that would be pretty fair.
Others have suggested a trans only category, but that would never work as the numbers just aren’t there.
I didn't say the were the same, i said they were women. They come in all shapes a sizes.
An open category is an interesting idea, but you are still keeping (trans) women out of the womens category. Almost as is they aren't women at all.
I wouldn't feel right doing that.
The solution to your last paragraph is simple. Change the category titles to female, male and open. Transwomen may be women, but they're not female.
I disagree. Feel free to quote me some science. It won't make a difference.
I quoted two papers further up the thread. Trans women have an advantage. They identify as women in terms of gender. But sometimes biological sex matters. And it matters in sport.
Yeah i know. I never said it didn't.
You said you're looking for middle ground. But there isn't. There's inclusion OR fairness in sport. Not both.
That's a pretty defeatist attitude! lets sit down and figure it out."
Ha. It's what the Olympic Committee said in 2021 when they released their report about gender etc. organisations can choose fairness or inclusion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites."
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites.
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group. "
Which do yiu think was more damaging, that 1 mid pack trans competitors? Or that the gender disparity between male ahd female competitors was approaching 20%?
And I dintbknow how many runners yiu know but outside the elites and those leading their age groups no one running a marathon cares about finishing positions, they care about times.
Addressing which |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
Unfortunately the forum urules don't make sharing sources that simple
News articles are fine
Thanks for confirming, I wasn’t sure either. "
https://www.fabswingers.com/content/forum-rules
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites.
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group.
Which do yiu think was more damaging, that 1 mid pack trans competitors? Or that the gender disparity between male ahd female competitors was approaching 20%?
And I dintbknow how many runners yiu know but outside the elites and those leading their age groups no one running a marathon cares about finishing positions, they care about times.
Addressing which"
Not following, sorry |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites.
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group. "
This is certainly the story that TERFs and transphobes are trying to promote, to gain some sympathy for their bigoted viewpoints.
The truth is that she came 6171 out of 20173 female “Mass” runners. If you include the “virtual” runners too (those running at same time but not in London) it’s 6330 out of 22205.
As no-one outside the top 1000 runners would even consider their placing relevant when compared to their personal time, it’s nonsensical to describe her finishing the race in 6330th place as ‘displacing women’s achievements’. Every women who finished made an individual achievement however long they took and wherever they placed, as did those who didn’t finish at all, and as did this specific woman who finished 6171 or 6330.
Participation is the key, and more power to trans women and trans men competing in every sport at whatever level they manage. Wherever they place, they score a victory against bigotry and intolerance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites.
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group.
This is certainly the story that TERFs and transphobes are trying to promote, to gain some sympathy for their bigoted viewpoints.
The truth is that she came 6171 out of 20173 female “Mass” runners. If you include the “virtual” runners too (those running at same time but not in London) it’s 6330 out of 22205.
As no-one outside the top 1000 runners would even consider their placing relevant when compared to their personal time, it’s nonsensical to describe her finishing the race in 6330th place as ‘displacing women’s achievements’. Every women who finished made an individual achievement however long they took and wherever they placed, as did those who didn’t finish at all, and as did this specific woman who finished 6171 or 6330.
Participation is the key, and more power to trans women and trans men competing in every sport at whatever level they manage. Wherever they place, they score a victory against bigotry and intolerance."
And they can still participate.
I'm not going to bother responding to anything else as you're unable to write without attacking. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites.
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group.
This is certainly the story that TERFs and transphobes are trying to promote, to gain some sympathy for their bigoted viewpoints.
The truth is that she came 6171 out of 20173 female “Mass” runners. If you include the “virtual” runners too (those running at same time but not in London) it’s 6330 out of 22205.
As no-one outside the top 1000 runners would even consider their placing relevant when compared to their personal time, it’s nonsensical to describe her finishing the race in 6330th place as ‘displacing women’s achievements’. Every women who finished made an individual achievement however long they took and wherever they placed, as did those who didn’t finish at all, and as did this specific woman who finished 6171 or 6330.
Participation is the key, and more power to trans women and trans men competing in every sport at whatever level they manage. Wherever they place, they score a victory against bigotry and intolerance."
So again I ask do you believe trans women should be allowed to compete with cis women? |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
And they can still participate.
I'm not going to bother responding to anything else as you're unable to write without attacking. "
Yup always an ad hominem response, cherry picks what they respond to, can’t articulate their point and hasn’t entered the debate in good faith.
|
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Is it only elite sport where this matters? Should someone running a 5 hour marathon be held to account? Or a cyclist competing at their local league events? Or the footballer playing for fun in a low level league with their mates?
Because for many mass participation sports the key is participating. And there are far more people (stullva nominal number) looking at being impacted by these rules than there are elites.
It mattered at the weekend with the London Marathon. An trans athlete who has switched between the male and female categories competed. Every woman's achievement is displaced because of that individual's choice. It's male puberty that impacts on advantage, so any competitive sport above 12/14yo age group.
This is certainly the story that TERFs and transphobes are trying to promote, to gain some sympathy for their bigoted viewpoints.
The truth is that she came 6171 out of 20173 female “Mass” runners. If you include the “virtual” runners too (those running at same time but not in London) it’s 6330 out of 22205.
As no-one outside the top 1000 runners would even consider their placing relevant when compared to their personal time, it’s nonsensical to describe her finishing the race in 6330th place as ‘displacing women’s achievements’. Every women who finished made an individual achievement however long they took and wherever they placed, as did those who didn’t finish at all, and as did this specific woman who finished 6171 or 6330.
Participation is the key, and more power to trans women and trans men competing in every sport at whatever level they manage. Wherever they place, they score a victory against bigotry and intolerance.
And they can still participate.
I'm not going to bother responding to anything else as you're unable to write without attacking. "
A statement of truth is not an attack, and is usually only considered so by those who seek to defend a position they know to be untrue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
And they can still participate.
I'm not going to bother responding to anything else as you're unable to write without attacking.
Yup always an ad hominem response, cherry picks what they respond to, can’t articulate their point and hasn’t entered the debate in good faith.
"
Yep. Threw the word hateful at you for even posting the link! And now transphobes and TERFs. Sigh. |
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By *nkyCpl OP Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
And they can still participate.
I'm not going to bother responding to anything else as you're unable to write without attacking.
Yup always an ad hominem response, cherry picks what they respond to, can’t articulate their point and hasn’t entered the debate in good faith.
Yep. Threw the word hateful at you for even posting the link! And now transphobes and TERFs. Sigh. "
Says more about them than me. |
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"I must say I fail to see how the ad is anything to do with watches.
They weren’t the race sponsors were they…  "
If they were, they need to go back to the drawing board because even with my specs on, I missed their branding.... |
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