I didn't want to rain on another other thread as folks there are enjoying their wrestling and I'm pleased for them.
But did anyone else ever grow up as a kid watching this, with perhaps your parents, and think, "This is nonsense. I'm 8 and learning Judo and Karate, and my teachers can put people down and they stay down. Why's that bloke in a stupid costume getting back up again ? Don't these people know how to fight properly ? This is just...bizarre and fake..."
I've never shaken that thought, even to this day. |
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"Yep! Absolute nonsense.
I mean, I genuinely respect their athleticism and I couldn't do it, but I feel like I'm just watching clowns at the circus pretending to fight. "
I agree. Clearly they are trained and there's a lot of skill and coordination that goes in to it. Of that I cannot dispute. But the clowns at the circus is right, imho.
Interestingly, "slapstick" is a quite common British comedy and I think Wrestling has a lot of that involved, so that go some way in explaining its appeal to many. |
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"mick foley lost a ear and had his tooth go threw his lip and into his own nose"
Will never forget him in that hell in a cell getting flung of it and still going back down to the ring to continue the match 1 of a kind was good old mick foley 1 of the actual legends |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pathetic thread, can't people just enjoy what they want? 
Guessing you didn't really read the OP. Did ANYTHING they wrote imply you couldn't enjoy what you wanted?"
This is nonsense. I'm 8 and learning Judo and Karate, and my teachers can put people down and they stay down. Why's that bloke in a stupid costume getting back up again ? Don't these people know how to fight properly ? This is just...bizarre and fake...
By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pathetic thread, can't people just enjoy what they want?
This is not the thread for you. It's for folks to discuss their thoughts on wrestling (if staying on thread). "
Alright, why does wrestling get tarred with the "it's fake" bullshit. Like no fan of it already knows this. Imagine watching any TV show and having it sneered at as fake. |
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It is staged yes in the fact that they practice but if you watched ring of honours supercard show one of the acclaimed ended up with his foot turned backwards after a big move spot search it on the YouTube it's mad. They don't use full force when striking there opponent but the moves are real and they do hurt |
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Do you watch movies and go "nah, John wick wouldn't be able to do that!"
It's entertainment, not a sport, Id however challenge anyone who thinks its "fake" however to get in the ring and take one back bump.
Personally I've watched since I was very young and don't ever remember thinking it was a real sport. |
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"By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you."
Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all. |
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I’ve also been into martial arts and wrestling and to me they are two completely different things. To enjoy wrestling you need ‘suspend belief’ to certain degree, but theres much more to wrestling than the wrestling. It’s storylines, drama, comedy, it’s about the characters |
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Did you know the dragons in game of thrones were fake too? Who knew?
Admittedly I don't really watch wrestling anymore, I watched it as a kid and 90s attitude era was immense.
Wrestling is really about stories, just like many other forms of entertainment, films, TV, comics, books. The feuds are serialised stories. The matches, especially the good ones, tell a story.
It takes suspension of disbelief but that's true of most entertainment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you.
Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all."
Pretty sure you started by dismissively asking if I read the OP. I did, and I explained what I interpreted of it. If he wanted people's opinions on it, he could've just asked but obviously made it a leading question by stating the obvious as if it's a negative. |
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"By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you.
Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all.
Pretty sure you started by dismissively asking if I read the OP. I did, and I explained what I interpreted of it. If he wanted people's opinions on it, he could've just asked but obviously made it a leading question by stating the obvious as if it's a negative."
I didn't 'dismissively' ask it. I genuinely asked it, because you implied they were saying what other people should or shouldn't enjoy - which they weren't. |
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"Alright, why does wrestling get tarred with the "it's fake" bullshit. Like no fan of it already knows this. Imagine watching any TV show and having it sneered at as fake."
I don't know. I just thought it strange my father got so worked up about when it. I used to say "This isn't real, it can't be. They are getting up again."
Then I'd watch him watching the football (which I knew wasn't pretend) and he'd get worked up in the same sort of way.
So that was really confusing, because it didn't seem to matter whether the sport was real or not, it had the same affect on him. I suppose these kind of things stay with you and form your early years.
I could tell which moves would get which of Dad's legs or arms to twitch, and which would get him off the sofa !  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you.
Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all.
Pretty sure you started by dismissively asking if I read the OP. I did, and I explained what I interpreted of it. If he wanted people's opinions on it, he could've just asked but obviously made it a leading question by stating the obvious as if it's a negative.
I didn't 'dismissively' ask it. I genuinely asked it, because you implied they were saying what other people should or shouldn't enjoy - which they weren't."
I believe I said "Can't people just enjoy what they want?". Maybe that was a genuine question. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my original point that by the way he structured his post, and the content of it, it was clearly done in a way to belittle what people like. If you can't see that, I can't help you. |
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"Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all."
Thank you, and no intention was meant to denigrate, which I why it was started on a separate thread. I set out how I perceive it, but I really wanted to hear how others, especially fans, perceive it , and there are some thoughtful replies here, so thank you to those. |
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"ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT "
This is what I think some pro-wrestling people don't get...
Many of those who think wrestling is nonsense think that you think it's real. So, a simple and fruitful response might be to explain that you know it's not actually real, like someone tried above by referencing John Wick.
Would that not end the grapple?
And, to clarify, many of those who say it's not real have endured decades of people insisting that it is. |
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It's clearly orchestrated and rehearsed, but it's done very well, I think it resembles dance rather than sport but the timing of the moves is very impressive.
It also entertains many hundreds of thousands of people so it can't be all bad. |
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"ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT
This is what I think some pro-wrestling people don't get...
Many of those who think wrestling is nonsense think that you think it's real. So, a simple and fruitful response might be to explain that you know it's not actually real, like someone tried above by referencing John Wick.
Would that not end the grapple?
And, to clarify, many of those who say it's not real have endured decades of people insisting that it is."
Yeah exactly, To be fair to the OP when he was 8 years old this was in the kayfabe era when they pretended it was real at all costs and some did used to think it was real |
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"It's clearly orchestrated and rehearsed, but it's done very well, I think it resembles dance rather than sport but the timing of the moves is very impressive.
"
That's actually a very acute observation.
So is wrestling a form of dance more so than a sport ? It's touted as a sport because I guess that is where all the big bucks come from, but is it, in fact just Violent Ballet ? |
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"It's clearly orchestrated and rehearsed, but it's done very well, I think it resembles dance rather than sport but the timing of the moves is very impressive."
Great way to put it! I like that.
However, I do think that many critics of wrestling don't get that the real fans know that. |
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"ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT
This is what I think some pro-wrestling people don't get...
Many of those who think wrestling is nonsense think that you think it's real. So, a simple and fruitful response might be to explain that you know it's not actually real, like someone tried above by referencing John Wick.
Would that not end the grapple?
And, to clarify, many of those who say it's not real have endured decades of people insisting that it is.
Yeah exactly, To be fair to the OP when he was 8 years old this was in the kayfabe era when they pretended it was real at all costs and some did used to think it was real "
I remember watching interviews on this debate where pro-wrestling advocates insisted it was real. And I have no idea why!
If they had explained it was like a Jet Li film, I would have respected it and probably kept watching it. |
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"ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT
This is what I think some pro-wrestling people don't get...
Many of those who think wrestling is nonsense think that you think it's real. So, a simple and fruitful response might be to explain that you know it's not actually real, like someone tried above by referencing John Wick.
Would that not end the grapple?
And, to clarify, many of those who say it's not real have endured decades of people insisting that it is.
Yeah exactly, To be fair to the OP when he was 8 years old this was in the kayfabe era when they pretended it was real at all costs and some did used to think it was real
I remember watching interviews on this debate where pro-wrestling advocates insisted it was real. And I have no idea why!
If they had explained it was like a Jet Li film, I would have respected it and probably kept watching it. "
I think they thought that is everyone knew it wasn’t real people would stop watching it but that wasn’t the case |
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I mind big bad vader in the day doing a interview to promote an upcoming show with the undertaker interview guy says to him some people say wrestlings fake what do you say to them people vader slaps the boy proper and asks him did that seem/feel fake to you it's disrespectful to people who do damage to there body insisting it's fake |
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"I think they thought that is everyone knew it wasn’t real people would stop watching it but that wasn’t the case "
In my day, it was like Giant Haystacks amd the emerging US scene. And I think they heard people saying, "it's fake..."
And the wrestlers looked at their own broken ankles, bleeding jaws and at-risk joints and went, "nothing fake about this!"
Being charitable, I think both 'sides' were just working with different definitions. |
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"ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT
This is what I think some pro-wrestling people don't get...
Many of those who think wrestling is nonsense think that you think it's real. So, a simple and fruitful response might be to explain that you know it's not actually real, like someone tried above by referencing John Wick.
Would that not end the grapple?
And, to clarify, many of those who say it's not real have endured decades of people insisting that it is.
Yeah exactly, To be fair to the OP when he was 8 years old this was in the kayfabe era when they pretended it was real at all costs and some did used to think it was real
I remember watching interviews on this debate where pro-wrestling advocates insisted it was real. And I have no idea why!
If they had explained it was like a Jet Li film, I would have respected it and probably kept watching it. "
It comes from the days of it being done at fairgrounds which at the time was more catch wrestling than pro wrestling, then it evolved into worked matches than than legit fights.
I dare anyone to tell a catch wrestler that what they do is fake. Would be a painful lesson. |
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I think injuries to "Showbiz" wrestlers are more down to accidents in the ring due to slip ups in the timing of well rehearsed moves.
Much like a male ballet dancer dropping the female lead during the dance.
I once watched an out-take from an old fight scene in 'The Sweeney" which resulted in Dennis Waterman having his nose broken and his eye socket fractured after a stunt man mistimed his punch and actually connected with Waterman's face. |
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"ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMN IT
This is what I think some pro-wrestling people don't get...
Many of those who think wrestling is nonsense think that you think it's real. So, a simple and fruitful response might be to explain that you know it's not actually real, like someone tried above by referencing John Wick.
Would that not end the grapple?
And, to clarify, many of those who say it's not real have endured decades of people insisting that it is.
Yeah exactly, To be fair to the OP when he was 8 years old this was in the kayfabe era when they pretended it was real at all costs and some did used to think it was real
I remember watching interviews on this debate where pro-wrestling advocates insisted it was real. And I have no idea why!
If they had explained it was like a Jet Li film, I would have respected it and probably kept watching it. It comes from the days of it being done at fairgrounds which at the time was more catch wrestling than pro wrestling, then it evolved into worked matches than than legit fights.
I dare anyone to tell a catch wrestler that what they do is fake. Would be a painful lesson."
If "new Jack" was still alive I'd dare anyone tell him it was fake, that guy had no script not 1 of his matches was actually fake he literally tried to kill people |
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"It comes from the days of it being done at fairgrounds which at the time was more catch wrestling than pro wrestling, then it evolved into worked matches than than legit fights."
Thanks for that. I had no idea.
I've often thought that Graeco-Roman wrestlers, grapplers and shoot-fighters must be annoyed that they're the ones who get the least attention. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you.
Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all.
Pretty sure you started by dismissively asking if I read the OP. I did, and I explained what I interpreted of it. If he wanted people's opinions on it, he could've just asked but obviously made it a leading question by stating the obvious as if it's a negative.
I didn't 'dismissively' ask it. I genuinely asked it, because you implied they were saying what other people should or shouldn't enjoy - which they weren't.
I believe I said "Can't people just enjoy what they want?". Maybe that was a genuine question. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my original point that by the way he structured his post, and the content of it, it was clearly done in a way to belittle what people like. If you can't see that, I can't help you."
Why are you so soft? I guess only you are allowed to have opinions. Go get your speedo on and go play with your wrestlers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"By belittling what people enjoy, it's pretty much the same as saying that people shouldn't enjoy it. But I can understand if subtext is a bit complicated for you.
Please don't be rude.
We can debate understanding and complicated subtexts if you want. Nevertheless, I think it's fairly clear that the OP was expressing their personal thoughts on a form of entertainment and asking who agreed.
That's all.
Pretty sure you started by dismissively asking if I read the OP. I did, and I explained what I interpreted of it. If he wanted people's opinions on it, he could've just asked but obviously made it a leading question by stating the obvious as if it's a negative.
I didn't 'dismissively' ask it. I genuinely asked it, because you implied they were saying what other people should or shouldn't enjoy - which they weren't.
I believe I said "Can't people just enjoy what they want?". Maybe that was a genuine question. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my original point that by the way he structured his post, and the content of it, it was clearly done in a way to belittle what people like. If you can't see that, I can't help you.
Why are you so soft? I guess only you are allowed to have opinions. Go get your speedo on and go play with your wrestlers "
Mature response, well done  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't stand it,fake sport in my opinion, boxing,mma ,that's what I watch ,and rugby which had elements of both lol"
It's not sport ..it's sports entertainment. They are fabulous athletes , but it's all scripted and set up based on the characters story line .
Can't be compared to professional sports. . it's just entertainment.
And it must have some appeal as there are many MMA, UFC, boxers , actually plying their trade successfully in this entertainment
X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Each to their own, I took my little lad to a WWE event last year. And he loved it, like many hundred of thousands of people do. Personally isn’t my cup of tea, but wouldn’t ever disrespect any man / woman who did that as a profession. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thank you, and no intention was meant to denigrate, which I why it was started on a separate thread. I set out how I perceive it, but I really wanted to hear how others, especially fans, perceive it , and there are some thoughtful replies here, so thank you to those."
I appreciate the clarification, OP. I suppose it's just the way the post is worded that because you did judo, you thought wrestling was nonsense which rubbed me the wrong way as it can be seen as belittling those who do enjoy it if that makes sense? In reality, every wrestling fan who's not a chil knows it's fake but I enjoy it becaus eincan suspend my belief and see it for what it is. And that's entertainment with great stories and larger than life characters that can make you laugh and emotionally invested, just like any TV show can. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't stand it,fake sport in my opinion, boxing,mma ,that's what I watch ,and rugby which had elements of both lol
It's not sport ..it's sports entertainment. They are fabulous athletes , but it's all scripted and set up based on the characters story line .
Can't be compared to professional sports. . it's just entertainment.
And it must have some appeal as there are many MMA, UFC, boxers , actually plying their trade successfully in this entertainment
X"
Exactly this! Many boxers and UFC fighters trash talk to sell their matches which a direct inspiration from pro wrestling. Muhammad Ali said he got his trash talking from watching Gorgeous George and Mike Tyson is a huge wrestling fan too. |
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I personally think that a lot of haters of wrestling have never got over the feeling of betrayal once they realised it wasn’t real hahaha!
Me being included for a lot of my teenage years, once I’d switched over to true combat sports. It was like the whole Santa Claus BS all over again!  haha
Although I don’t watch wrestling and have no ill will towards people who do (why would I), I admire their dedication to their craft and showmanship. These guys and girls are legit athletes who train non stop all year round whilst performing live all around the world week in week out.
They pull off some crazy ass moves that they sometimes get seriously injured executing, and continue on all for the fans and the storyline. Hats off to them in my opinion
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"Thank you, and no intention was meant to denigrate, which I why it was started on a separate thread. I set out how I perceive it, but I really wanted to hear how others, especially fans, perceive it , and there are some thoughtful replies here, so thank you to those.
I appreciate the clarification, OP. I suppose it's just the way the post is worded that because you did judo, you thought wrestling was nonsense which rubbed me the wrong way as it can be seen as belittling those who do enjoy it if that makes sense? In reality, every wrestling fan who's not a chil knows it's fake but I enjoy it becaus eincan suspend my belief and see it for what it is. And that's entertainment with great stories and larger than life characters that can make you laugh and emotionally invested, just like any TV show can."
No worries. I guess bloodthirsty little old me at 8 thought these folks could try a bit harder !
I get what you mean by belittling, and I guess we can all read things in myriads of ways. I think it's fair to say that I misread wrestling at a young age as proof of that.
I'm no stranger to having my hobbies misunderstood. Used to collect 2000 AD, what most would call "a comic". Factually correct in that regard. So as a comic, it got lumped in to the same stable as "The Beano" and the like by my parents. I got annoyed when they called it "a comic" but I didn't have the words to articulate why back then.
Now I can, and can explain that it carries adult themes, eg a look at societal breakdown and the fascism inherent in a totalitarian state (Judge Dredd and Mega City One).
My parents still call it a comic, and I just nod my head, indifferently |
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"It was like the whole Santa Claus BS all over again! haha
"
Oh crikey, I remember all that. I can't remember what age I was, but I just woke up one day and thought "This can't be true. Portly man, flying reindeer, billions of homes, 1 night. It's just not possible or credible". I said something to my folks and Santa was never mentioned again. I guess they grew tired of too, bless 'em! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why do we keep going over this wrestling thing ha ha
They are entertainers ...athletes in their own right ..
It's SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT
It's shows acted out for people's pleasure . They are amazing trained athletes ..some are even olympic gold medalists . Some are MMA fighters ....
But it's not a full on contact professional sports .
People like Brock Lesnar , Matt riddle , rhonda rousey , have all done it in MMA .
A lot have transitioned from this entertainment industry into acting ...the rock ....biggest earning Hollywood actor going. Batista making his name .
John Cena
Remember wrestling is like circus performers ..athletes using their skills to entertain. Dont confuse with trained fighters like boxers etc .
And as for judo ..a lot of WWE moves are inspired by judo , the throws , the holds etc ... These industries can live side by side . Make a lot of money and provide superior athletes a cross over and path to a career |
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