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ENM vs Swinger Couples
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Lately I've been coming across a lot of single female profiles on online dating sites that openly proclaim that they're in "ENM/Ethical Non-Monogamy", and that they've got a husband/boyfriend in real life.
Someone whom I also consider a close friend has also recently gotten into a relationship with a man who's in an ENM thing with his wife. She told me about how he'd invite her over for sleepovers and more whenever his wife's away with her own lover elsewhere, and that they both know about each others' lovers' existence. As a result of that plus the fact that she's recently started her own business teaching fitness stuff, we've been chatting far less often and I find myself also hesitating to initiate contact with her as much due to the knowledge that she's seeing another guy (albeit he's not even seeing her exclusively, which rankles me).
So after having my monthly scroll of the online dating site I'm on, and looking up my friend's contact (and deleting my message after second-guessing myself), I've got this question in my head I need answering.
Does it make me a hypocrite if I'm okay with accepting swinger couples, but can't really accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy? Specifically, the kind of ENM whereby two people are in an open relationship/marriage and they regularly see/fuck other people on the side, apart from each other.
Saturday musings. Thoughts and perspectives welcome. |
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Not necessarily a hypocrite so long as you're not an asshole about it.
Several of my friends don't understand polyamory or the relationship structures I prefer, but they accept that that's who I am and that I'm happy.
If you don't like it, don't get involved that way, and don't be an ass about it, and then you're all good. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Not necessarily a hypocrite so long as you're not an asshole about it.
Several of my friends don't understand polyamory or the relationship structures I prefer, but they accept that that's who I am and that I'm happy.
If you don't like it, don't get involved that way, and don't be an ass about it, and then you're all good."
No of course I'm not an asshole about it. I've never said a bad word about my misgivings and lack of comprehension/acceptance of ENM dynamics to my friend, genuinely happy for her as long as she's happy, and as for my own dating life online I just pass/swipe left on profiles that openly proclaim they're ENM.
But given where I'm located here, it seems like ENM is the prevailing majority, which just leaves me feeling a bit... nonplussed. Feeling like I'm missing out on the whole deal or something by wanting to be exclusive with SOMEBODY and wanting to be a priority not an option. |
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There's nothing wrong with wanting to be exclusive, but it does mean a base incompatibility with those of us who don't like to live that way.
There's many reasons that people can be incompatible. It doesn't mean you're wrong or missing out, because they're not the right fit for you anyway. |
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"Lately I've been coming across a lot of single female profiles on online dating sites that openly proclaim that they're in "ENM/Ethical Non-Monogamy", and that they've got a husband/boyfriend in real life.
Someone whom I also consider a close friend has also recently gotten into a relationship with a man who's in an ENM thing with his wife. She told me about how he'd invite her over for sleepovers and more whenever his wife's away with her own lover elsewhere, and that they both know about each others' lovers' existence. As a result of that plus the fact that she's recently started her own business teaching fitness stuff, we've been chatting far less often and I find myself also hesitating to initiate contact with her as much due to the knowledge that she's seeing another guy (albeit he's not even seeing her exclusively, which rankles me).
So after having my monthly scroll of the online dating site I'm on, and looking up my friend's contact (and deleting my message after second-guessing myself), I've got this question in my head I need answering.
Does it make me a hypocrite if I'm okay with accepting swinger couples, but can't really accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy? Specifically, the kind of ENM whereby two people are in an open relationship/marriage and they regularly see/fuck other people on the side, apart from each other.
Saturday musings. Thoughts and perspectives welcome. "
No not a hypocrite, long as you can respect the choice of others. You don't need to understand it,just respect it. But if you don't understand it...then it's likely not for you.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Assuming here ENM means seeing other people alone, whereas swinging means playing together with other other ppl.
We are all different. However I hope being on this site we accept others without judgement. And if we don't like the dynamic we are in, we communicate that boundary clearly. The N shouldnt be the reason the E exists.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing. 
I’m uneducated but I thought ENM involved emotional attachment but swinging doesn’t?!"
That explains all the men demanding NSA NOW. |
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing.
I’m uneducated but I thought ENM involved emotional attachment but swinging doesn’t?!
That explains all the men demanding NSA NOW."
I'm quite confused by the number of people saying a connection is vital. 
I wonder if there's a cross over between this and the actions speaking louder than words thread  |
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing.
I’m uneducated but I thought ENM involved emotional attachment but swinging doesn’t?!
That explains all the men demanding NSA NOW.
I'm quite confused by the number of people saying a connection is vital.
I wonder if there's a cross over between this and the actions speaking louder than words thread "
For some people a connection is vital.
For some people it isn't.
Swinging by definition tends towards the latter. Particularly for established couples looking for some hedonism without strings attached. But neither side is right or wrong, just different. |
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By *rder66Man
over a year ago
Tatooine |
Why can't you accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy. If you are in a relasionship, do you view the other person as a possession and not an entity experiencing their own life journey or do you need to feel a sense of control within a relasionship.
I think you need to examine this yourself and truely ask yourself this question and the reason you are attracted to the swinging scene, is it something you should be apart of, do you beocome attached to someone, emotionaly, easily and would this become possesstional and controling.
Only you can discover this answer.
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By *elkieWoman
over a year ago
Durham |
So, ENM is an umbrella term, which includes swinging, open relationships and polyamory.
Can I give you something to think about? You say you want to be a priority, not an option - but you also say you’re spending less time talking to your friend since discovering she has a partner? If you keep treating people the same regardless of what else is going on in their lives, you’ll likely end up with stronger friendships and feeling better about yourself?
I’m nonmono and demisexual, I don’t want to fuck people I don’t like, so I need a bit of connection, and I’ve found amazing friendships through swing, particularly with other poly people. |
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing.
I’m uneducated but I thought ENM involved emotional attachment but swinging doesn’t?!
That explains all the men demanding NSA NOW.
I'm quite confused by the number of people saying a connection is vital.
I wonder if there's a cross over between this and the actions speaking louder than words thread
For some people a connection is vital.
For some people it isn't.
Swinging by definition tends towards the latter. Particularly for established couples looking for some hedonism without strings attached. But neither side is right or wrong, just different."
The majority of forum contributors say that a connection is vital to them. This is the thing that confuses me |
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing.
I’m uneducated but I thought ENM involved emotional attachment but swinging doesn’t?!
That explains all the men demanding NSA NOW.
I'm quite confused by the number of people saying a connection is vital.
I wonder if there's a cross over between this and the actions speaking louder than words thread
For some people a connection is vital.
For some people it isn't.
Swinging by definition tends towards the latter. Particularly for established couples looking for some hedonism without strings attached. But neither side is right or wrong, just different.
The majority of forum contributors say that a connection is vital to them. This is the thing that confuses me"
For us, a connection is much less than a romantic relationship. It means we like people and have a laugh with them over a drink (before fucking each other's brains out). It doesn't mean we want to spend our lives with them.
You wouldn't go to football or the pub with someone you didn't get on with at some level. This is much the same.
(Once in my life I did fuck someone 5 minutes after meeting her. Knew her first name but nothing else about her. It was insanely hot! Maybe the norm for those who do clubs, but not our normal pattern of swinging).
OP - if you want to find someone to be exclusive with, good for you. Each to their own. But many people on this site are here precisely because they don't want exclusivity. It may not be the best place for you to find what you want. |
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"The majority of forum contributors say that a connection is vital to them. This is the thing that confuses me"
Why does it confuse you?
Surely even the premise of being on the forums to talk to people rather than just hitting up hot profiles for easy lays directly means you're more likely to find the people that like to be interested on the forums than is proportional on the site in general?
Forums like the lounge and swingers chat anyway. Posting in the meets and events forums you'd probably find less people looking for a connection proportionally, though if they'd waste time answering the question is debatable. |
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"The majority of forum contributors say that a connection is vital to them. This is the thing that confuses me
Why does it confuse you?
Surely even the premise of being on the forums to talk to people rather than just hitting up hot profiles for easy lays directly means you're more likely to find the people that like to be interested on the forums than is proportional on the site in general?
Forums like the lounge and swingers chat anyway. Posting in the meets and events forums you'd probably find less people looking for a connection proportionally, though if they'd waste time answering the question is debatable."
I think I *being* confusing. 
I was responding to the posts that say swinging is NSA. What confuses me is that people say that when do many want a connection. |
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I don’t think it makes you a hypocrite. ENM and swinging can be different. And using dating sites for relationships and fab for purely sexual encounters will naturally mean you are looking for something different from each type of interaction. |
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"Why can't you accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy. If you are in a relasionship, do you view the other person as a possession and not an entity experiencing their own life journey or do you need to feel a sense of control within a relasionship.
I think you need to examine this yourself and truely ask yourself this question and the reason you are attracted to the swinging scene, is it something you should be apart of, do you beocome attached to someone, emotionaly, easily and would this become possesstional and controling.
Only you can discover this answer.
"
I’m not sure if this was intended to be condescending. I assume not and that you are open minded about other lifestyles than you own since it seems you are on board ENM
But just for clarity… wanting a monogamous relationship does not equate to a need to control someone or see them as a possession. You have described monogamy in a way that sounds like it is abusive.
Its just different horses for courses or whatever that saying is |
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By *rder66Man
over a year ago
Tatooine |
"Why can't you accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy. If you are in a relasionship, do you view the other person as a possession and not an entity experiencing their own life journey or do you need to feel a sense of control within a relasionship.
I think you need to examine this yourself and truely ask yourself this question and the reason you are attracted to the swinging scene, is it something you should be apart of, do you beocome attached to someone, emotionaly, easily and would this become possesstional and controling.
Only you can discover this answer.
I’m not sure if this was intended to be condescending. I assume not and that you are open minded about other lifestyles than you own since it seems you are on board ENM
But just for clarity… wanting a monogamous relationship does not equate to a need to control someone or see them as a possession. You have described monogamy in a way that sounds like it is abusive.
Its just different horses for courses or whatever that saying is "
I dind't discribe monogamous relasionship in a general sense, I was asking him to question some reason why he thinks the way he does. I also never mentioned abusive aspect of a relasionship and asked him to question if there was a sense of control that he might feel he was loosing.
Just for the record, I'm old enough and have fast living experience to know what a monogamous relaionship is.
People can become attached, regardless of emotion or ego and this leads to sense of possession, this doesn't mean it's abussive. It generly is a human state and the sense fear which comes with loosing something we have grown attached to.
I'm sure you don't intend to be condisending by putting words in my mouth.
Please don't question how open minded I am, I was brought up up my parents who where followers of the Rajneesh movement and have live extensively abroad and as a result have always viewed socioty from the outside. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I like NSA and a connection, you can have both I don't fall in love with people I swing with but I get close to them like a friends with benefits. I don't ever want anything more (nsa) but I care about them and feel warm towards them (connection) and that builds and grows stronger as time goes on.
I don't really fully understand ENM or poly all I know is I am non Monogamous |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why can't you accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy. If you are in a relasionship, do you view the other person as a possession and not an entity experiencing their own life journey or do you need to feel a sense of control within a relasionship.
I think you need to examine this yourself and truely ask yourself this question and the reason you are attracted to the swinging scene, is it something you should be apart of, do you beocome attached to someone, emotionaly, easily and would this become possesstional and controling.
Only you can discover this answer.
"
I'm a swinger when it's just my sex drive I want to satisfy first and foremost and I don't want to just do it with one other person. When I was younger, I became a swinger because I wanted to prove myself to the world that it didn't necessary matter that I was not as socially popular/good looking as others, I could still carve out my own niche and experience to be proud of in "outfucking" all of them as someone least expected to even get laid. Now I just see swinging and group sex as one of my several sexual appetite tastes, like how in a week one day you go for steak, one day you go for Thai, one day you go for bangers and mash, so on and so forth.
I find it difficult to accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy because of two things. Firstly, slapping the term "ethical" into it makes an unnecessary distinction within non-monogamy when there really shouldn't be any. "Unethical" non-monogamy is just known as cheating. This kind of makes me wonder if people who claim to be doing ENM actually believe what they're doing is right or acceptable or ethical, or deep down they know it's just "legitimised cheating/open relationship" simply because their partner knows about it and gives them permission to play away with a third party.
Secondly, and this comes from my own personal viewpoint, I always have this feeling that ENM individuals actually make life more difficult for singles in the dating pool. Like, you already have someone. You clearly aren't short of energy or love to give, so why not focus it on that one person you're already with instead of dipping into the singles pool and competing with other singles who are looking for their only partner? For lack of a better word, I find it a "greedy" expression of love. I don't believe love in society when it comes to singles is of an abundance concept. It's very much a zero-sum game simply because we live in a society that still values monogamy above all else.
As for my attachment pattern and all that, I don't have a clear answer at this point of time and frankly I don't feel like I'd be comfortable to openly discuss it in here or with you. Hope you understand. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Can I give you something to think about? You say you want to be a priority, not an option - but you also say you’re spending less time talking to your friend since discovering she has a partner? If you keep treating people the same regardless of what else is going on in their lives, you’ll likely end up with stronger friendships and feeling better about yourself?
"
I'm spending less time talking to my close friend now because the usual times when I'd text her and she'd be free to reply is now fully taken up by her new man. I know she wouldn't mind me texting her still, but I don't want to have that feeling like I'm intruding into her time with her beau, and what would he think if he sees her phone lighting up when she's with him? For all I know he might be ENM and comfortable with it, but it only applies to the lady he's seeing, not him accepting that the lady he's seeing also has other male friends who've known her longer than he has.
I know a lot of it is just head assumption. Still. I don't want to give any chances to anybody to say that I'm getting in the way of somebody's love life. Nothing's changed in how I see or treat her as a person, but it's undeniable that her new second job and relationship now has supplanted any free time or energy she used to have for me as her close friend. And this is also why I feel the partial resentment towards her new guy as an ENM married male, because as I described in another comment above I find that singles like me really don't need ENM people to come crowd the pool and "be greedy" in love. It's different from swinging or even casual hookups, because in swinging and casual hookups it's explicitly understood that both/all parties aren't looking to date even if they have chemistry both physically or emotionally, that they're already committed to someone else.
The best analogy I can think of is owning a car and going to car meets. You meet other people who also own their cars and attend car meets. You like each other's cars, sometimes you go as far as test driving each others' cars for fun and enjoyment. But end of the day all of you return home with your own car. Neither of you is offering to buy out the other's car and make it yours, just because you like it, because nobody NEEDS more than a single car to accomplish what a car is supposed to provide/add value for in your life.
Does that make sense or have I talked myself into a corner? |
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"I find it difficult to accept the idea of ethical non-monogamy because of two things. Firstly, slapping the term "ethical" into it makes an unnecessary distinction within non-monogamy when there really shouldn't be any. "Unethical" non-monogamy is just known as cheating. This kind of makes me wonder if people who claim to be doing ENM actually believe what they're doing is right or acceptable or ethical, or deep down they know it's just "legitimised cheating/open relationship" simply because their partner knows about it and gives them permission to play away with a third party."
The term ethical is in there simply to try and distinguish from assholes who lie to the people they supposedly care about. Whether its just sex or whole relationships the point of ENM is an honest and openness that is directly opposed to cheating.
"Secondly, and this comes from my own personal viewpoint, I always have this feeling that ENM individuals actually make life more difficult for singles in the dating pool. Like, you already have someone. You clearly aren't short of energy or love to give, so why not focus it on that one person you're already with instead of dipping into the singles pool and competing with other singles who are looking for their only partner? For lack of a better word, I find it a "greedy" expression of love. I don't believe love in society when it comes to singles is of an abundance concept. It's very much a zero-sum game simply because we live in a society that still values monogamy above all else."
But you're not "competing" for the same people. I don't date monogamous people. I'm not stealing from your available pool.
And I'm not sure why it would be considered greedy to want my partners to be able to experience everything they want in life even if it's not something that I want for myself. If someone wants that whole kids and family thing, that's what their nesting partner is for, and we can still have our own relationship and joy together without him compromising his want for a family or me compromising my want to never ever breed.
If they were my only partner that would technically take me out of the singles pool, but it wouldn't change the fact that I'd still be utterly incompatible with someone monogamous, so it wouldn't reduce the pool of people available to monogamous singles. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"
Can I give you something to think about? You say you want to be a priority, not an option - but you also say you’re spending less time talking to your friend since discovering she has a partner? If you keep treating people the same regardless of what else is going on in their lives, you’ll likely end up with stronger friendships and feeling better about yourself?
I'm spending less time talking to my close friend now because the usual times when I'd text her and she'd be free to reply is now fully taken up by her new man. I know she wouldn't mind me texting her still, but I don't want to have that feeling like I'm intruding into her time with her beau, and what would he think if he sees her phone lighting up when she's with him? For all I know he might be ENM and comfortable with it, but it only applies to the lady he's seeing, not him accepting that the lady he's seeing also has other male friends who've known her longer than he has.
I know a lot of it is just head assumption. Still. I don't want to give any chances to anybody to say that I'm getting in the way of somebody's love life. Nothing's changed in how I see or treat her as a person, but it's undeniable that her new second job and relationship now has supplanted any free time or energy she used to have for me as her close friend. And this is also why I feel the partial resentment towards her new guy as an ENM married male, because as I described in another comment above I find that singles like me really don't need ENM people to come crowd the pool and "be greedy" in love. It's different from swinging or even casual hookups, because in swinging and casual hookups it's explicitly understood that both/all parties aren't looking to date even if they have chemistry both physically or emotionally, that they're already committed to someone else.
The best analogy I can think of is owning a car and going to car meets. You meet other people who also own their cars and attend car meets. You like each other's cars, sometimes you go as far as test driving each others' cars for fun and enjoyment. But end of the day all of you return home with your own car. Neither of you is offering to buy out the other's car and make it yours, just because you like it, because nobody NEEDS more than a single car to accomplish what a car is supposed to provide/add value for in your life.
Does that make sense or have I talked myself into a corner? "
It’s not greedy to not demand all your needs from one single person, quite the opposite and makes for much healthier less dependant relationships . Mono relationships often force you to compromise on your needs or always grow in the same direction , which is why they have such a high fail rate |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
It’s not greedy to not demand all your needs from one single person, quite the opposite and makes for much healthier less dependant relationships . Mono relationships often force you to compromise on your needs or always grow in the same direction , which is why they have such a high fail rate "
No of course I get this part, which is why I support anyone I date in future (and myself for that part) having our own social circle even outside of the relationship and hanging out with other people from time to time.
But I wouldn't take it as far as dating someone else when I'm in a relationship with someone. And I certainly wouldn't accept my partner telling me that she wants to date someone else at the same time she's seeing me. I feel I've done and experienced more than my bit in life being a +1 option to others in swinging. It shouldn't be too much of an ask to want monogamy for my own love life (even though if my partner wanted to swing I'd be up for it as long as it's done together).
Just feeling neither here nor there at the moment. |
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By *elkieWoman
over a year ago
Durham |
"
Can I give you something to think about? You say you want to be a priority, not an option - but you also say you’re spending less time talking to your friend since discovering she has a partner? If you keep treating people the same regardless of what else is going on in their lives, you’ll likely end up with stronger friendships and feeling better about yourself?
I'm spending less time talking to my close friend now because the usual times when I'd text her and she'd be free to reply is now fully taken up by her new man. I know she wouldn't mind me texting her still, but I don't want to have that feeling like I'm intruding into her time with her beau, and what would he think if he sees her phone lighting up when she's with him? For all I know he might be ENM and comfortable with it, but it only applies to the lady he's seeing, not him accepting that the lady he's seeing also has other male friends who've known her longer than he has.
I know a lot of it is just head assumption. Still. I don't want to give any chances to anybody to say that I'm getting in the way of somebody's love life. Nothing's changed in how I see or treat her as a person, but it's undeniable that her new second job and relationship now has supplanted any free time or energy she used to have for me as her close friend. And this is also why I feel the partial resentment towards her new guy as an ENM married male, because as I described in another comment above I find that singles like me really don't need ENM people to come crowd the pool and "be greedy" in love. It's different from swinging or even casual hookups, because in swinging and casual hookups it's explicitly understood that both/all parties aren't looking to date even if they have chemistry both physically or emotionally, that they're already committed to someone else.
The best analogy I can think of is owning a car and going to car meets. You meet other people who also own their cars and attend car meets. You like each other's cars, sometimes you go as far as test driving each others' cars for fun and enjoyment. But end of the day all of you return home with your own car. Neither of you is offering to buy out the other's car and make it yours, just because you like it, because nobody NEEDS more than a single car to accomplish what a car is supposed to provide/add value for in your life.
Does that make sense or have I talked myself into a corner? "
It does make sense, but for me, people are like books. They get into my head and I spend my time daydreaming about them and talking about them. I buy copies for my friends so they know how amazing this book is and can experience it for themself. And every book I read adds value to my life and is amazingly precious and wonderful and makes me feel things I haven’t felt before, or teaches me something new, or both.
A life with only one book would be pretty sad.
It’s the difference between a scarcity and abundance mindset though. If you really believe that love is finite or that you need to compete for it, of course you’re going to struggle. |
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"
It’s not greedy to not demand all your needs from one single person, quite the opposite and makes for much healthier less dependant relationships . Mono relationships often force you to compromise on your needs or always grow in the same direction , which is why they have such a high fail rate "
I'd imagine they fail just as often as other kinds of relationships |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Can I give you something to think about? You say you want to be a priority, not an option - but you also say you’re spending less time talking to your friend since discovering she has a partner? If you keep treating people the same regardless of what else is going on in their lives, you’ll likely end up with stronger friendships and feeling better about yourself?
I'm spending less time talking to my close friend now because the usual times when I'd text her and she'd be free to reply is now fully taken up by her new man. I know she wouldn't mind me texting her still, but I don't want to have that feeling like I'm intruding into her time with her beau, and what would he think if he sees her phone lighting up when she's with him? For all I know he might be ENM and comfortable with it, but it only applies to the lady he's seeing, not him accepting that the lady he's seeing also has other male friends who've known her longer than he has.
I know a lot of it is just head assumption. Still. I don't want to give any chances to anybody to say that I'm getting in the way of somebody's love life. Nothing's changed in how I see or treat her as a person, but it's undeniable that her new second job and relationship now has supplanted any free time or energy she used to have for me as her close friend. And this is also why I feel the partial resentment towards her new guy as an ENM married male, because as I described in another comment above I find that singles like me really don't need ENM people to come crowd the pool and "be greedy" in love. It's different from swinging or even casual hookups, because in swinging and casual hookups it's explicitly understood that both/all parties aren't looking to date even if they have chemistry both physically or emotionally, that they're already committed to someone else.
The best analogy I can think of is owning a car and going to car meets. You meet other people who also own their cars and attend car meets. You like each other's cars, sometimes you go as far as test driving each others' cars for fun and enjoyment. But end of the day all of you return home with your own car. Neither of you is offering to buy out the other's car and make it yours, just because you like it, because nobody NEEDS more than a single car to accomplish what a car is supposed to provide/add value for in your life.
Does that make sense or have I talked myself into a corner? "
some stuff to unpack. You are making decisions for your friend and also pre emptying how her new guy will act. She can tell you to stop texting and they can discuss if they are okay with other guys texting her.
Have you talked to her about it given she is a good friend?
Also, the behaviour of seeing a friend less when they have a new OH resonates as much with a monogamous relationship as someone ENM.
I may have miss read what you intend to communicate but a lot of what I read reminded me of a "nice guy" and some unhelpful and possibly unhealthy behaviours your end that may hamper having a healthy relationship.
I am guessing you don't want to date a gal who wants more than one partner ? So ENM guys are only fishing in your pool if we are sleeping with gals who are themselves monogamous but okay with their man being ENM. That's not a lot of the fish in your sea.
|
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Do we need to fall into one or the other though? We’re on here as a couple who class ourselves as swingers. However I would say for me the connection is more important than it is for my husband. That doesn’t mean I need to feel that with every encounter though. I have friendships I have made with people we have met which do go beyond just sex bit I don’t need to put a label on it.
Kx |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
some stuff to unpack. You are making decisions for your friend and also pre emptying how her new guy will act. She can tell you to stop texting and they can discuss if they are okay with other guys texting her.
Have you talked to her about it given she is a good friend?
Also, the behaviour of seeing a friend less when they have a new OH resonates as much with a monogamous relationship as someone ENM.
I may have miss read what you intend to communicate but a lot of what I read reminded me of a "nice guy" and some unhelpful and possibly unhealthy behaviours your end that may hamper having a healthy relationship.
I am guessing you don't want to date a gal who wants more than one partner ? So ENM guys are only fishing in your pool if we are sleeping with gals who are themselves monogamous but okay with their man being ENM. That's not a lot of the fish in your sea.
"
... I don't even know how to respond or unpack what you've said here. I'm sorry. I tried. I've got nothing for you. Except to say that I'd hardly call myself a "nice guy" to any girl, and I'm more inclined than anything else to cut women down to size if I get the impression that their ego is so inflated from all the simping they get from men in society. I'm an equal opportunities asshole... who's also kind of not a true asshole.
Because you know what they say. Those who are broken, once loved too much. It's also partially why I'm on Fab and enjoy swinging with couples. I get vicarious pleasure from seeing/being part of some activity that makes them happy. Because I have serious issues comprehending or accepting that I can have my own happiness same as they do, the way I comprehend it in couples out there. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Do we need to fall into one or the other though? We’re on here as a couple who class ourselves as swingers. However I would say for me the connection is more important than it is for my husband. That doesn’t mean I need to feel that with every encounter though. I have friendships I have made with people we have met which do go beyond just sex bit I don’t need to put a label on it.
Kx"
I think it's best summed up on my part by this.
I personally don't understand nor approve of people who coupled up playing away separately from each other. I can't comprehend giving permission to one's other half to do so for purely sexual stuff like swinging, much less ENM actual dating with someone else.
It's got nothing to do with how I see swingers on here. I've been part of this whole schtick for long enough now haven't I to have issues with swingers.
Sorry. Kinda lost my thread of thought here. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" I'm more inclined than anything else to cut women down to size if I get the impression that their ego is so inflated from all the simping they get from men in society.
Yikes."
And why's this a yikes? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping? "
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift. |
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" I'm more inclined than anything else to cut women down to size if I get the impression that their ego is so inflated from all the simping they get from men in society.
Yikes.
And why's this a yikes? "
You're proudly announcing that you're deliberately unpleasant to women if they have more confidence than you think they should have.
|
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" I'm more inclined than anything else to cut women down to size if I get the impression that their ego is so inflated from all the simping they get from men in society.
Yikes.
And why's this a yikes?
You're proudly announcing that you're deliberately unpleasant to women if they have more confidence than you think they should have.
"
Except I never said anything about being deliberately unpleasant to women if they have more confidence than I think they should have.
I keep to my lane, they keep to theirs. I won't add to the masses of compliments or attention they get daily from other men. But if one such individual crosses my path and crosses me figuratively speaking, I'm not going to be inclined to be nice. That's what I meant. I don't see what's so "yikes" about this. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift. "
Why can't couples do as they wish? Why shouldn't one half be able to ho and meet someone else if both parties are happy?
Maybe, just maybe, it's nobody's business what they do, how their dynamic works and who they see with the full knowledge and consent of each other but theirs?
What right does anyone have to question someone's relationship from the outside?
Jeez. Every day there's another example of someone really not understanding couples.....and undoubtedly 99.9% of the time that person is single. 
A |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x"
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift.
Why can't couples do as they wish? Why shouldn't one half be able to ho and meet someone else if both parties are happy?
Maybe, just maybe, it's nobody's business what they do, how their dynamic works and who they see with the full knowledge and consent of each other but theirs?
What right does anyone have to question someone's relationship from the outside?
Jeez. Every day there's another example of someone really not understanding couples.....and undoubtedly 99.9% of the time that person is single.
A"
Do you make it a point to come and pick fights with people on Fab you clearly have a mutual dislike of from previous interactions elsewhere?
I don't like you. Please leave me on Fab alone and don't engage on my threads. Thanks. |
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|
By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift.
Why can't couples do as they wish? Why shouldn't one half be able to ho and meet someone else if both parties are happy?
Maybe, just maybe, it's nobody's business what they do, how their dynamic works and who they see with the full knowledge and consent of each other but theirs?
What right does anyone have to question someone's relationship from the outside?
Jeez. Every day there's another example of someone really not understanding couples.....and undoubtedly 99.9% of the time that person is single.
A
Do you make it a point to come and pick fights with people on Fab you clearly have a mutual dislike of from previous interactions elsewhere?
I don't like you. Please leave me on Fab alone and don't engage on my threads. Thanks. "
From your opening post.
"Thoughts and perspectives welcome."
Apparently not those of anyone who disagrees with you. Don't take this personally but it doesn't matter to me who typed what you typed. I'd have said the same to anyone. If you're not prepared to have anyone who uses the forums comment on posts I'd suggest not posting.
A |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift.
Why can't couples do as they wish? Why shouldn't one half be able to ho and meet someone else if both parties are happy?
Maybe, just maybe, it's nobody's business what they do, how their dynamic works and who they see with the full knowledge and consent of each other but theirs?
What right does anyone have to question someone's relationship from the outside?
Jeez. Every day there's another example of someone really not understanding couples.....and undoubtedly 99.9% of the time that person is single.
A
Do you make it a point to come and pick fights with people on Fab you clearly have a mutual dislike of from previous interactions elsewhere?
I don't like you. Please leave me on Fab alone and don't engage on my threads. Thanks.
From your opening post.
"Thoughts and perspectives welcome."
Apparently not those of anyone who disagrees with you. Don't take this personally but it doesn't matter to me who typed what you typed. I'd have said the same to anyone. If you're not prepared to have anyone who uses the forums comment on posts I'd suggest not posting.
A"
And who put a nickel into you to make you the forum police now? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think I can understand it from a swinging perspective, ie meeting for sex but I cant really get my head round being in love with more than one person and that working out well for all parties involved. It must take an awful lot of maturity for all parties, and I would always guess there is going to be a weak link somewhere and expect it to all go horribly wrong. I have had some experience of it but it just isnt something I could do as a way of life beyond merely 'fab' relationships. I think it is probably a good thing more people are experimenting and talking about opening relationships up rather than just being unhappy and doing their own thing but, but.... I cant do it. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"
It’s not greedy to not demand all your needs from one single person, quite the opposite and makes for much healthier less dependant relationships . Mono relationships often force you to compromise on your needs or always grow in the same direction , which is why they have such a high fail rate
I'd imagine they fail just as often as other kinds of relationships "
It’s not been my experience. The poly relations I have found here don’t seem to have any of that tension and end after a year or two like regular dating. There’s much less or no insecurity and zero expectations for any kind of stereotypical pattern, everything’s much more organic and limitless.
It’s like someone just mentioned the abundant mindset. |
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"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift. "
Why do you think people should run their sex lives according to the standards you are comfortable with? |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift.
Why do you think people should run their sex lives according to the standards you are comfortable with? "
I didn't know that expressing my opinion that I can't understand nor easily accept the way some people conduct their love/sex lives is equivalent to me dictating how they run their sex lives.
But thanks for your leap of logic contribution. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift.
Why can't couples do as they wish? Why shouldn't one half be able to ho and meet someone else if both parties are happy?
Maybe, just maybe, it's nobody's business what they do, how their dynamic works and who they see with the full knowledge and consent of each other but theirs?
What right does anyone have to question someone's relationship from the outside?
Jeez. Every day there's another example of someone really not understanding couples.....and undoubtedly 99.9% of the time that person is single.
A
Do you make it a point to come and pick fights with people on Fab you clearly have a mutual dislike of from previous interactions elsewhere?
I don't like you. Please leave me on Fab alone and don't engage on my threads. Thanks.
From your opening post.
"Thoughts and perspectives welcome."
Apparently not those of anyone who disagrees with you. Don't take this personally but it doesn't matter to me who typed what you typed. I'd have said the same to anyone. If you're not prepared to have anyone who uses the forums comment on posts I'd suggest not posting.
A"
The poster has made it clear he doesn't want to converse with you, please respect that |
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|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I don't like you. Please leave me on Fab alone and don't engage on my threads. Thanks. "
To be fair they are not your threads, they are posted for anyone to answer, however you have asked a person not to answer you, they will hopefully respect that but they may still join in on any post another person has made on a thread you have started |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. "
is your friend ENM ?
And do you resent the fella because he's ENM (and double dipping in the dating pool). Or simply because he's your friends priority ATM? |
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|
By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. is your friend ENM ?
And do you resent the fella because he's ENM (and double dipping in the dating pool). Or simply because he's your friends priority ATM?"
Good questions, I was going to come back and ask these.
And OP? It was as much of a sort of kindness in your direction as it was to myself. I hadn't realised quite how I was feeling until I typed it out. So thank you for the thread.
Signed,
A Poly Pain.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think sitting with what comes up for you might be useful.
What comes up when you think about her, and the situation, because it sounds like there is more to it.
With regards to cutting women down if ‘you’ think they have over inflated confidence, why do you think it’s your job to do that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think sitting with what comes up for you might be useful.
What comes up when you think about her, and the situation, because it sounds like there is more to it.
With regards to cutting women down if ‘you’ think they have over inflated confidence, why do you think it’s your job to do that? "
Arrogance |
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"I think sitting with what comes up for you might be useful.
What comes up when you think about her, and the situation, because it sounds like there is more to it.
With regards to cutting women down if ‘you’ think they have over inflated confidence, why do you think it’s your job to do that? "
I'm one of the "over confident" ones, but not about my sexual worth, because I know I'm a fat, disabled bird and that's unattractive to many. However, outside of my sexual worth, I'm damn confident. Some have described me as bossy or over bearing, but men who have the same confidence are called leaders etc. I honestly couldn't care less what some bloke (or woman) thinks of my character, and any attempt to "bring me down to size" will be met with a push back.
I can't stand men who think women should be meek and quiet and deferential. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think sitting with what comes up for you might be useful.
What comes up when you think about her, and the situation, because it sounds like there is more to it.
With regards to cutting women down if ‘you’ think they have over inflated confidence, why do you think it’s your job to do that?
I'm one of the "over confident" ones, but not about my sexual worth, because I know I'm a fat, disabled bird and that's unattractive to many. However, outside of my sexual worth, I'm damn confident. Some have described me as bossy or over bearing, but men who have the same confidence are called leaders etc. I honestly couldn't care less what some bloke (or woman) thinks of my character, and any attempt to "bring me down to size" will be met with a push back.
I can't stand men who think women should be meek and quiet and deferential. "
Me neither. A secure man likes a confident empowered woman  . |
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I think the majority of society has the belief that people can only love or be emotionally connected with one partner.
Swinging, poly, ENM roles all differ from this belief in various ways.
It suits some but others seem to need the exclusivity. Gradually society is realising that different is not always wrong. I hope this direction of travel continues so we can be open an not feel judged. |
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By *irtyfuxCouple
over a year ago
Kings Lynn Norfolk! NOT |
Bookmarking with interest.
We are a swinging couple. Our working lives recently have left us to experiment in ENM.
When we are together, seeking fun, that will be together. If at a party, club, we will not play separate rooms. We like to share.
For us, at this time, our spare time conspires with our work patterns and we have spoke about the function of ENM.
Poly is not for us. With others we don’t seek emotional attachment, but value ourselves and those we play with to have a connection. IE not fucking for the sake of a fuck.
So for us we have an arrangement that is new to us, but we hope suits us. We know communication throughout is key.
For OP. People in life, make choices to suit, sometimes it’s for the good, sometimes it doesn’t work out. That’s life. No different to your life choices. Live and let live.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. is your friend ENM ?
And do you resent the fella because he's ENM (and double dipping in the dating pool). Or simply because he's your friends priority ATM?"
That's the thing. My friend she isn't usually ENM. She said this is her first time round with it and she's exploring it with him. All her past dating experiences as far as I know have been monogamous ones or friends with benefits without love featuring in the way. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Bookmarking with interest.
We are a swinging couple. Our working lives recently have left us to experiment in ENM.
When we are together, seeking fun, that will be together. If at a party, club, we will not play separate rooms. We like to share.
For us, at this time, our spare time conspires with our work patterns and we have spoke about the function of ENM.
Poly is not for us. With others we don’t seek emotional attachment, but value ourselves and those we play with to have a connection. IE not fucking for the sake of a fuck.
So for us we have an arrangement that is new to us, but we hope suits us. We know communication throughout is key.
For OP. People in life, make choices to suit, sometimes it’s for the good, sometimes it doesn’t work out. That’s life. No different to your life choices. Live and let live.
"
Thank you for your comment. I do appreciate it. Of course I do live and let live. I'm not looking to actively intervene and break my friend up with her ENM guy. Or anyone else for that matter. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think sitting with what comes up for you might be useful.
What comes up when you think about her, and the situation, because it sounds like there is more to it.
With regards to cutting women down if ‘you’ think they have over inflated confidence, why do you think it’s your job to do that? "
As I previously said, I won't go out of my way to be mean to women and cut them down to size just because I find their egos overinflated. But I'm much less likely to just play Mr Harmony and just let things slide if they get up in my face or get snotty with me directly.
As for what's influenced my stance here, I've had unpleasant experiences in the past with such women who are so used to being simped or hit on by men looking to fuck them that when I met them at a social and simply meant to say hi as an introduction from a newbie like myself, the lady's first reaction was to shoot me down with "sorry you're too young for me". |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think sitting with what comes up for you might be useful.
What comes up when you think about her, and the situation, because it sounds like there is more to it.
With regards to cutting women down if ‘you’ think they have over inflated confidence, why do you think it’s your job to do that?
I'm one of the "over confident" ones, but not about my sexual worth, because I know I'm a fat, disabled bird and that's unattractive to many. However, outside of my sexual worth, I'm damn confident. Some have described me as bossy or over bearing, but men who have the same confidence are called leaders etc. I honestly couldn't care less what some bloke (or woman) thinks of my character, and any attempt to "bring me down to size" will be met with a push back.
I can't stand men who think women should be meek and quiet and deferential.
Me neither. A secure man likes a confident empowered woman ."
I also like confident empowered women. I'm not a fan of the whole meek deferential sort of women. But then again too many women interpret being confident and empowered as taking every chance they get to rub it into the faces of men around them that they're a match for them or even better than them. That I won't abide. I won't let anybody male or female feel better about themselves and their egos by putting me down or riding roughshod over me as an individual. I hope this clarifies things. |
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"kind of makes me wonder if people who claim to be doing ENM actually believe what they're doing is right or acceptable or ethical, or deep down they know it's just "legitimised cheating/open relationship" simply because their partner knows about it and gives them permission to play away with a third party."
Of course we think it's right, 'acceptable' and ethical. The only reason to think it isn't is if we thought monogamy was the only valid option.
Secondly, that therefore *does* legitimise us having sex with other people. It's obviously not cheating. If you're playing football and someone says, "Let's play without the offside rule," when you do that you're not 'cheating.' You're just playing under new rules. |
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing.
I was going to say this. What's the difference?"
I think it's helpful to think of ENM as the umbrella term. That is, swinging is just one example of ENM. Having said that, some people swing "unethically." |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Dear OP, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you find a satisfactory answer to your protracted ENM conundrum. You deserve to be gratified by the outcome of this thread. "
Haha thanks.
Though it seems I've managed to piss off some people though. Oh well. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Surely swinging and enm is the same thing.
I was going to say this. What's the difference?
I think it's helpful to think of ENM as the umbrella term. That is, swinging is just one example of ENM. Having said that, some people swing "unethically.""
I personally have known a few couples in the past who were definitely unethical swingers. I think that's why it's sort of coloured my view on swinger couples and ENM proponents, and I really don't want to slip down the judgemental route or even sometimes feel subconsciously pressured to consider similar arrangements for myself to widen my chances at swinging and/or dating. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. is your friend ENM ?
And do you resent the fella because he's ENM (and double dipping in the dating pool). Or simply because he's your friends priority ATM?
That's the thing. My friend she isn't usually ENM. She said this is her first time round with it and she's exploring it with him. All her past dating experiences as far as I know have been monogamous ones or friends with benefits without love featuring in the way. "
do you resent her trying it on then? Or accepting him being ENM ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. is your friend ENM ?
And do you resent the fella because he's ENM (and double dipping in the dating pool). Or simply because he's your friends priority ATM?
That's the thing. My friend she isn't usually ENM. She said this is her first time round with it and she's exploring it with him. All her past dating experiences as far as I know have been monogamous ones or friends with benefits without love featuring in the way. do you resent her trying it on then? Or accepting him being ENM ?
"
I don't resent her trying it on with a guy who's openly ENM. I don't like the idea of the guy being ENM when he's legally married to another woman and already bought her back to his own marital home the very first date they had, when his wife wasn't in and was spending time with her own lover elsewhere. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't make you a hypocrite OP, you clearly don't agree with it. That's fair enough, not every person who is into swinging is poly. Far from it.
As far as your friend is concerned - new relationship energy applies to monogamous or poly relationships. People are interested in someone new, it's that rush, the initial attraction stage combined with getting to know someone new.
Your resentment is understandable to a certain extent but surely if you have the depth of friendship you'd be happy for her regardless? When that initial rush dies down, will that friendship still be strong? I'm currently experiencing something similar. While I'm happy for their happy, it does sting a little how it's been handled. If you have that friendship depth, surely you can talk openly?
The fact I'm less of a priority compared to someone of a couple of weeks isn't easy. But, the friendship is worth it. I think you need to look at if it is for you.
I think being poly isn't something that appeals/is understood by the general population and that's okay.
You've done a few threads/posts on this subject OP, you don't have to date/be friends with poly people if you dislike it. There's a growing amount of people who identify as poly, yes. I think people are more open about who they are, I'd much rather have that then lies/untruths.
The idea of being "greedy" in love and taking up valuable dating resources is laughable though. It really doesn't work like that.
If you do want monogamy OP, there are many monogamous women. They're not all being taken by those cheeky poly scamps. x
I am happy for my friend regardless. My resentment isn't directed at her but in a mild manner at the guy she's seeing, knowing that he's an ENM. My friendship with her remains strong. We've lasted through since 2015 till now, despite me spending years away halfway round the world in a different timezone way ahead of GMT, all through Covid and how life's changed post-pandemic for all of us in the world. That's not in question.
As for everything else you've said, I kind of get what you're saying. Thanks, your words were a kindness in a manner of speaking. is your friend ENM ?
And do you resent the fella because he's ENM (and double dipping in the dating pool). Or simply because he's your friends priority ATM?
That's the thing. My friend she isn't usually ENM. She said this is her first time round with it and she's exploring it with him. All her past dating experiences as far as I know have been monogamous ones or friends with benefits without love featuring in the way. do you resent her trying it on then? Or accepting him being ENM ?
I don't resent her trying it on with a guy who's openly ENM. I don't like the idea of the guy being ENM when he's legally married to another woman and already bought her back to his own marital home the very first date they had, when his wife wasn't in and was spending time with her own lover elsewhere. "
it's interesting to me you seem okay with her part in all this, but not him, despite him and his wife being okay with it. If he'd been cheating would you be okay with your friend being part of an affair in the marital bed ?
That aside, you seem to have a lot more issues with ENM than simply the fact they are reducing your chances. If she develops feelings for him, and they become more than Fwb, you may need to have a look at this if you want your friendship to continue. Otherwise I fear you will be constraining yr interactions or saying things that may be either harmful, it come across that way. |
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"
I don't resent her trying it on with a guy who's openly ENM. I don't like the idea of the guy being ENM when he's legally married to another woman and already bought her back to his own marital home the very first date they had, when his wife wasn't in and was spending time with her own lover elsewhere. "
What don't you like about this arrangement OP? I've read the thread mostly but don't really understand the problem. |
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"I don't resent her trying it on with a guy who's openly ENM. I don't like the idea of the guy being ENM when he's legally married to another woman and already bought her back to his own marital home the very first date they had, when his wife wasn't in and was spending time with her own lover elsewhere. "
I'm really struggling to understand what the problem is? It seems everyone involved is aware and consenting. What is it about the marital home that bothers you if they're all okay with it? |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I'm not clear on why you have a problem with one and not the other. Does this extend to swinger couples who do separate-room swapping?
No because they're still both doing it together in the same setting (club/house) just different rooms. It's not like husband/wife is out playing, the other half is staying home minding the house or something, if you get my drift.
Why can't couples do as they wish? Why shouldn't one half be able to ho and meet someone else if both parties are happy?
Maybe, just maybe, it's nobody's business what they do, how their dynamic works and who they see with the full knowledge and consent of each other but theirs?
What right does anyone have to question someone's relationship from the outside?
Jeez. Every day there's another example of someone really not understanding couples.....and undoubtedly 99.9% of the time that person is single.
A
Do you make it a point to come and pick fights with people on Fab you clearly have a mutual dislike of from previous interactions elsewhere?
I don't like you. Please leave me on Fab alone and don't engage on my threads. Thanks.
From your opening post.
"Thoughts and perspectives welcome."
Apparently not those of anyone who disagrees with you. Don't take this personally but it doesn't matter to me who typed what you typed. I'd have said the same to anyone. If you're not prepared to have anyone who uses the forums comment on posts I'd suggest not posting.
A
The poster has made it clear he doesn't want to converse with you, please respect that"
No problem at all Rugby. More than happy to comply.
Hopefully this won't become a trend on the forums of people choosing who they are willing to engage with though, outside of any abuse of course.
Would be a sad day if the forums just became an echo chamber of people agreeing with each other and no opinions ever being challenged. Open discussions with willing participants have always been the best thing about the forums.
A
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
It seems to be a problem after all if you took my post as asking people to all agree with each other on the forum or decided to interpret it that way to suit yourself.
Drop it please and respect what the man wants. |
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