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First the Police and now the Fire
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"Because it shouldn’t be that way, obviously. That’s why the reports are necessary and hopefully action will follow " Well we are still waiting for the feds to change after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.. | |||
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"Because it shouldn’t be that way, obviously. That’s why the reports are necessary and hopefully action will follow Well we are still waiting for the feds to change after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.." And nothing will change if no one tries | |||
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"Because it shouldn’t be that way, obviously. That’s why the reports are necessary and hopefully action will follow Well we are still waiting for the feds to change after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.." If you don't measure the current state, i.e. do the reports, how do you know anything has changed? | |||
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"It is society Tom. From the poor examples at the top to the masses. Corrupt , amoral and self serving with little regard for others Why it's such a mystery that our institutions are corrupt puzzles me. If I use an orchard of rotten apples to fill my boxes the apples in those boxes will be rotten. " Omg how long have we got granny? | |||
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"Why it's such a mystery that our institutions are corrupt puzzles me." I'll tell you why. It's those power-mad control freaks working for such institutions that feel they can throw their weight around, and that no one will believe them because of the uniform they wear. | |||
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"Why it's such a mystery that our institutions are corrupt puzzles me. I'll tell you why. It's those power-mad control freaks working for such institutions that feel they can throw their weight around, and that no one will believe them because of the uniform they wear." I didn't ask that...... but thanks. | |||
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"It is society Tom. From the poor examples at the top to the masses. Corrupt , amoral and self serving with little regard for others Why it's such a mystery that our institutions are corrupt puzzles me. If I use an orchard of rotten apples to fill my boxes the apples in those boxes will be rotten. Omg how long have we got granny? "Probably until 6 p.m. Macky. Now buckle up n do what you should be doing. | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. " So, "men being men" in masculine jobs are entitled to sexually harrass women in the same jobs, or racially abuse people of colour, or those of other minority groups? Do me a favour. And yes - dare I say it, Tom is right when he talks about a "bigoted" institution. On a lighter note, are you going to see Jim Davidson on his next UK tour? | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. " No it isn’t. It’s power hungry arseholes getting in to jobs they know will allow them to act badly without consequence. Feminisation has nothing to do with it. Bigotry, misogyny and dangerous men are to blame and they need stamping out before more people die at their hands or get further abused. | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. No it isn’t. It’s power hungry arseholes getting in to jobs they know will allow them to act badly without consequence. Feminisation has nothing to do with it. Bigotry, misogyny and dangerous men are to blame and they need stamping out before more people die at their hands or get further abused. " Very well said.  | |||
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" If I use an orchard of rotten apples to fill my boxes the apples in those boxes will be rotten. " You read Confucius too Granny? | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. No it isn’t. It’s power hungry arseholes getting in to jobs they know will allow them to act badly without consequence. Feminisation has nothing to do with it. Bigotry, misogyny and dangerous men are to blame and they need stamping out before more people die at their hands or get further abused. " As I said it's a different generation which is clashing with the modern world. You may not like it but you can't change dinosaurs just because you change the rules. There will be another 20yrs of Angst but then everyone will be on the same page at work. All the men & women will be outside vaping discussing their dresses. | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. No it isn’t. It’s power hungry arseholes getting in to jobs they know will allow them to act badly without consequence. Feminisation has nothing to do with it. Bigotry, misogyny and dangerous men are to blame and they need stamping out before more people die at their hands or get further abused. As I said it's a different generation which is clashing with the modern world. You may not like it but you can't change dinosaurs just because you change the rules. There will be another 20yrs of Angst but then everyone will be on the same page at work. All the men & women will be outside vaping discussing their dresses." Oh okay then. So hundreds more women will be sexually abused and murdered but it’s okay coz of the dinosaurs. The rules need to be changed to save lives, fuck what the bloody dinosaurs think  | |||
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"Because it shouldn’t be that way, obviously. That’s why the reports are necessary and hopefully action will follow Well we are still waiting for the feds to change after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.. And nothing will change if no one tries " They are not trying, this is a really bad and costly way to try that doesn’t work. They are pretending to try | |||
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"I do not think the report suggests that firemen are out murdering people every day. In fact they usually rescue and Dave people. But for the record,the older generations may be called dinosaurs but they ruled the earth for millions of years.... " Badly. | |||
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"I do not think the report suggests that firemen are out murdering people every day. In fact they usually rescue and Dave people. But for the record,the older generations may be called dinosaurs but they ruled the earth for millions of years.... Badly. " And where are they now?... | |||
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"I do not think the report suggests that firemen are out murdering people every day. In fact they usually rescue and Dave people. But for the record,the older generations may be called dinosaurs but they ruled the earth for millions of years.... Badly. And where are they now?..." Dead | |||
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"I do not think the report suggests that firemen are out murdering people every day. In fact they usually rescue and Dave people. But for the record,the older generations may be called dinosaurs but they ruled the earth for millions of years.... Badly. And where are they now?... Dead "My dad was born in 1927. He's managed to live his whole life in a very masculine environment without doing any of the stuff these people have done. He hasn't found it difficult | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. " You don't have to be wholly masculine to be a fireman. I know someone who had a better face cleansing and moisturising regime to most women who was a Royal Marine. | |||
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"I do not think the report suggests that firemen are out murdering people every day. In fact they usually rescue and Dave people. But for the record,the older generations may be called dinosaurs but they ruled the earth for millions of years.... Badly. And where are they now?... Dead
My dad was born in 1927. He's managed to live his whole life in a very masculine environment without doing any of the stuff these people have done. He hasn't found it difficult "I think some people confuse masculine with aggression, which can lead to bullying. | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. " | |||
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" I think some people confuse masculine with aggression, which can lead to bullying. " So much for all these idiots who are influenced by, and model themselves on arseholes such as Andrew Tate. | |||
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"After an unsurprising report that labelled the Police as having a culture of bullying, anti homosexuality, misogyny, misandry and just about every other bigotry then low and behold is a similar report saying the same thing about our firemen. This, hot on the heels of another that exposed a NHS Trust. Why bother with these ghastly, costly reports. Just accept that the whole of society is institutionally bigoted. It will always be that way... It's all over the news..." No don't see it that way. Things are better than they were 20 years ago and 20 years ago better than 40 years ago. It's because of organisations investigating a soul searching we have made the work place better. Even if you accept there will always be a few. A few is far better than widespread and institutionalised. However I'm not anti banter and high jinks. They are the life force of institutions I've worked in. However it's really important that people start to understand the impact of words and actions and take care to understand the people they're working around. I have also seen how damaging and corrosive such behaviour can be to an individual and a team when people have not understood or deliberately continued with inappropriate behaviour. Knowing when, where and who with things are appropriate is key. And of course somethings may never be appropriate (especially in positions of public trust such as the Police). I am concerned when we look at what individuals said say within a closed group such as WhatsApp group. And I am concerned about how some people are delt with by organisations. Often now the punishment does seem to be disproportionate to the crime. Because often the nuance of people expressing darker banter and letting of steam in a closed group is lost. Just because they experiment with dark humour and themes amongst consenting freinds in a closed group doesn't mean they personally believe these things or support them. Just the same as many of our close to the bone stand up comedians. So yes improvements in work place culture are great but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Mr | |||
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"These reports police, fireservice esp are about men doing a high risk job, where they run the risk of either death or witnessing death daily, how the hell do you expect these guys to handle that, you are judging people in high testosterone environments by the feminised standards of "normal" society. What next members of the army are aggressive. Today's beta weak males should be greatful there are still "toxic" men doing these jobs and there to help them when it all goes tits up in the bubble wrapped world they live in" Sounds like you either still live in the 50s/60s, or you haven't quite evolved into a human yet. | |||
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"Also, I worked under a female head teacher who was a bully. She's doing very well now." The only two people who've ever tried to bully me were women. I also worked somewhere where several women were conducting a regime of bullying against new younger women employees. In one case I offered to go to HR with the young woman and in the other I just challenged the bullies every time they did or said something out of order. That wasn't difficult for me in the environment I was in but I can see how it would be in other cases | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. No it isn’t. It’s power hungry arseholes getting in to jobs they know will allow them to act badly without consequence. Feminisation has nothing to do with it. Bigotry, misogyny and dangerous men are to blame and they need stamping out before more people die at their hands or get further abused. As I said it's a different generation which is clashing with the modern world. You may not like it but you can't change dinosaurs just because you change the rules. There will be another 20yrs of Angst but then everyone will be on the same page at work. All the men & women will be outside vaping discussing their dresses. Oh okay then. So hundreds more women will be sexually abused and murdered but it’s okay coz of the dinosaurs. The rules need to be changed to save lives, fuck what the bloody dinosaurs think "You are not bright enough to see the argument, like many bleeding hearts you go straight to 99 from 15. Sadly even when this world is dominated by Liberal wokers murders & raqes will continue as bad people are bad no matter there level of understanding. Given the huge numbers of raqes now in Sweden due to mass immigration of young men (not dinosaurs) are you in support of immigration as its not dinosaurs raqing your Swedish women in their own country? Bigotry does not mean raqist even if you want to associate the two. Not allowed to use the r word hence q for p. | |||
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"These reports police, fireservice esp are about men doing a high risk job, where they run the risk of either death or witnessing death daily, how the hell do you expect these guys to handle that, you are judging people in high testosterone environments by the feminised standards of "normal" society. What next members of the army are aggressive. Today's beta weak males should be greatful there are still "toxic" men doing these jobs and there to help them when it all goes tits up in the bubble wrapped world they live in" So it gives them the "right" to bully and sexually harass women, who are doing the same job, just as well as them??? Get a grip of yourself!! My brother has been a firefighter for years, and he doesn't behave like that, and yes, he's a "masculine" man, but certainly not "toxic"!!! | |||
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"You are not bright enough to see the argument, like many bleeding hearts you go straight to 99 from 15. Sadly even when this world is dominated by Liberal wokers murders & raqes will continue as bad people are bad no matter there level of understanding. Given the huge numbers of raqes now in Sweden due to mass immigration of young men (not dinosaurs) are you in support of immigration as its not dinosaurs raqing your Swedish women in their own country? Bigotry does not mean raqist even if you want to associate the two. Not allowed to use the r word hence q for p." Of course...when all else fails, why not blame the immigrants? They're an easy scapegoat for everything that's wrong in the world, after all. World dominated by Liberal "wokers"? I think you'll find that the Tories have been in power for 13 years now. I'd rather be a bleeding heart than an ignorant racist. | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. " | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. So, "men being men" in masculine jobs are entitled to sexually harrass women in the same jobs, or racially abuse people of colour, or those of other minority groups? Do me a favour. And yes - dare I say it, Tom is right when he talks about a "bigoted" institution. On a lighter note, are you going to see Jim Davidson on his next UK tour?" No, but ive booked to see chubby brown | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. So, "men being men" in masculine jobs are entitled to sexually harrass women in the same jobs, or racially abuse people of colour, or those of other minority groups? Do me a favour. And yes - dare I say it, Tom is right when he talks about a "bigoted" institution. On a lighter note, are you going to see Jim Davidson on his next UK tour? No, but ive booked to see chubby brown" That doesn't surprise me. | |||
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"After an unsurprising report that labelled the Police as having a culture of bullying, anti homosexuality, misogyny, misandry and just about every other bigotry then low and behold is a similar report saying the same thing about our firemen. This, hot on the heels of another that exposed a NHS Trust. Why bother with these ghastly, costly reports. Just accept that the whole of society is institutionally bigoted. It will always be that way... It's all over the news... No don't see it that way. Things are better than they were 20 years ago and 20 years ago better than 40 years ago. It's because of organisations investigating a soul searching we have made the work place better. Even if you accept there will always be a few. A few is far better than widespread and institutionalised. However I'm not anti banter and high jinks. They are the life force of institutions I've worked in. However it's really important that people start to understand the impact of words and actions and take care to understand the people they're working around. I have also seen how damaging and corrosive such behaviour can be to an individual and a team when people have not understood or deliberately continued with inappropriate behaviour. Knowing when, where and who with things are appropriate is key. And of course somethings may never be appropriate (especially in positions of public trust such as the Police). I am concerned when we look at what individuals said say within a closed group such as WhatsApp group. And I am concerned about how some people are delt with by organisations. Often now the punishment does seem to be disproportionate to the crime. Because often the nuance of people expressing darker banter and letting of steam in a closed group is lost. Just because they experiment with dark humour and themes amongst consenting freinds in a closed group doesn't mean they personally believe these things or support them. Just the same as many of our close to the bone stand up comedians. So yes improvements in work place culture are great but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Mr" well said | |||
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"After a bad incident dark humour comes into it, things said that might seem iffensive and crass to a bystander but not to those who have just oulled the zip on a body bag Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain " Good old banter, she's got a fat arse, let's mock her. Some would laugh it off, others won't. But It's only banter when the recipient is on on the joke, when they aren't it's bullying. Also 10+ years on a sector that very much relies on dark humour as a coping strategy, so I'm not buying that as a justification either | |||
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"Can we get this into a little perspective. There are only 218 allegations out of a workforce approaching 50,000. 218 too many. But should not deflect or detract from the vast majority that are all good people and do a outrageous job." This is very much about trying to portray the police as not unusual abd that this culture isn't unique to the police. Numbers wide, it sadly only reinforced the depth of problems in the police | |||
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"After a bad incident dark humour comes into it, things said that might seem iffensive and crass to a bystander but not to those who have just oulled the zip on a body bag Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain Good old banter, she's got a fat arse, let's mock her. Some would laugh it off, others won't. But It's only banter when the recipient is on on the joke, when they aren't it's bullying. Also 10+ years on a sector that very much relies on dark humour as a coping strategy, so I'm not buying that as a justification either " 10 years in the fire service? | |||
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"Bigoted Tom? Name calling achieves nothing, it's men in masculine jobs being men but luckily for you as more & more young men are feminised it will cease. Be patient as us dinosaurs are in the last 3rd. No it isn’t. It’s power hungry arseholes getting in to jobs they know will allow them to act badly without consequence. Feminisation has nothing to do with it. Bigotry, misogyny and dangerous men are to blame and they need stamping out before more people die at their hands or get further abused. As I said it's a different generation which is clashing with the modern world. You may not like it but you can't change dinosaurs just because you change the rules. There will be another 20yrs of Angst but then everyone will be on the same page at work. All the men & women will be outside vaping discussing their dresses. Oh okay then. So hundreds more women will be sexually abused and murdered but it’s okay coz of the dinosaurs. The rules need to be changed to save lives, fuck what the bloody dinosaurs think
You are not bright enough to see the argument, like many bleeding hearts you go straight to 99 from 15.
Sadly even when this world is dominated by Liberal wokers murders & raqes will continue as bad people are bad no matter there level of understanding.
Given the huge numbers of raqes now in Sweden due to mass immigration of young men (not dinosaurs) are you in support of immigration as its not dinosaurs raqing your Swedish women in their own country?
Bigotry does not mean raqist even if you want to associate the two.
Not allowed to use the r word hence q for p."You’re not even on the same page mate. Have a fabulous day | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!!" You seem to have an inability to differentiate between taking orders in a life-or-death situation, and bullying. Nice try for trying to deflect the situation, but I don't buy it. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! You seem to have an inability to differentiate between taking orders in a life-or-death situation, and bullying. Nice try for trying to deflect the situation, but I don't buy it." And your experience if such things is what? | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! You seem to have an inability to differentiate between taking orders in a life-or-death situation, and bullying. Nice try for trying to deflect the situation, but I don't buy it. And your experience if such things is what?" I know what it's like to be bullied in the workplace - I have first-hand experience of it in my first job, and it's usually by incompetent managers and those with the same attitude (insecurity) as yourself. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!!" How is that comparable to the other scenario you mentioned? | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! You seem to have an inability to differentiate between taking orders in a life-or-death situation, and bullying. Nice try for trying to deflect the situation, but I don't buy it. And your experience if such things is what? I know what it's like to be bullied in the workplace - I have first-hand experience of it in my first job, and it's usually by incompetent managers and those with the same attitude (insecurity) as yourself." Why have I got insecurities, you’re making this personal and there is no need for it | |||
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"These reports police, fireservice esp are about men doing a high risk job, where they run the risk of either death or witnessing death daily, how the hell do you expect these guys to handle that, you are judging people in high testosterone environments by the feminised standards of "normal" society. What next members of the army are aggressive. Today's beta weak males should be greatful there are still "toxic" men doing these jobs and there to help them when it all goes tits up in the bubble wrapped world they live in" What a complete crock.. We've had women in the job since the early 80s, so if your going to comment at least acknowledge that FFS.. It's not a high testosterone environment regardless of the incident being attended, adrenaline will be high but outdated ignorant clichés have no relevance to how an incident is dealt with.. And yes it's stressful and at times fucking awful and upsetting for all depending on the outcome of the shout but it's not dealt with and nor is it acceptable to do so by some of the shitty behaviours the report has highlighted.. None of which have any place on a watch.. The job like all environments is changing and the vast majority are decent people trying to do their best, that's not to excuse the wrong uns who as with the police there's no place for in the service.. There's no place or need for anyone who is toxic.. | |||
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"Because it shouldn’t be that way, obviously. That’s why the reports are necessary and hopefully action will follow " Unfortunately you can not change human nature you never could, and never will. | |||
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"Because there are good cops too, ones fault of few cant label everyone with it "There are so much red tape that good workers cant do their job it seems, the police also have to think twice before they can stop and search someone. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!!" Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. Which part if my scenario dont you accept? I doubt very much a firefighter will have a word with ouc regarding how he was spoken to, the adrenalin is flowing, you can dislike someone as much as you like so long as you all gell at an incident Always remember, there is a wanker on every shift and if there isnt, its probably you The point im trying to highlight is this The man incharge is going to be a little brusque when faced with my scenario, whuch could be construed as being harsh by certain members if the crew, and maybe bullying, which is total bollox "  | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. Which part if my scenario dont you accept? I doubt very much a firefighter will have a word with ouc regarding how he was spoken to, the adrenalin is flowing, you can dislike someone as much as you like so long as you all gell at an incident Always remember, there is a wanker on every shift and if there isnt, its probably you The point im trying to highlight is this The man incharge is going to be a little brusque when faced with my scenario, whuch could be construed as being harsh by certain members if the crew, and maybe bullying, which is total bollox "Can you honestly not see the difference between that and men making reversing noises when a female colleague walked through the station? | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. Which part if my scenario dont you accept? I doubt very much a firefighter will have a word with ouc regarding how he was spoken to, the adrenalin is flowing, you can dislike someone as much as you like so long as you all gell at an incident Always remember, there is a wanker on every shift and if there isnt, its probably you The point im trying to highlight is this The man incharge is going to be a little brusque when faced with my scenario, whuch could be construed as being harsh by certain members if the crew, and maybe bullying, which is total bollox "The oic can equally be a woman.. Again in my experience they will if they deem it necessary, however this imagined scenario of yours is more of a deflection than what the report is about.. Someone being brusque on the foreground is nothing to do with bullying and harassment.. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. Which part if my scenario dont you accept? I doubt very much a firefighter will have a word with ouc regarding how he was spoken to, the adrenalin is flowing, you can dislike someone as much as you like so long as you all gell at an incident Always remember, there is a wanker on every shift and if there isnt, its probably you The point im trying to highlight is this The man incharge is going to be a little brusque when faced with my scenario, whuch could be construed as being harsh by certain members if the crew, and maybe bullying, which is total bollox
The oic can equally be a woman..
Again in my experience they will if they deem it necessary, however
this imagined scenario of yours is more of a deflection than what the report is about..
Someone being brusque on the foreground is nothing to do with bullying and harassment.."Exactly, but some would be offended and take it as bullying.im well aware the oic can be female and be good at being a gaffa | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. Which part if my scenario dont you accept? I doubt very much a firefighter will have a word with ouc regarding how he was spoken to, the adrenalin is flowing, you can dislike someone as much as you like so long as you all gell at an incident Always remember, there is a wanker on every shift and if there isnt, its probably you The point im trying to highlight is this The man incharge is going to be a little brusque when faced with my scenario, whuch could be construed as being harsh by certain members if the crew, and maybe bullying, which is total bollox
The oic can equally be a woman..
Again in my experience they will if they deem it necessary, however
this imagined scenario of yours is more of a deflection than what the report is about..
Someone being brusque on the foreground is nothing to do with bullying and harassment..
Exactly, but some would be offended and take it as bullying.im well aware the oic can be female and be good at being a gaffa "This is less about you trying to prove your hypothetical scenario could be considered bullying and far more about trying to invalidate the real life example which you cited and dismissed earlier in the thread | |||
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"Why bother with these ghastly, costly reports. " Because they’re planning to make some cuts in this area, so begin by discrediting them in the media. Plus their mates probably run reports companies. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!!" That's him doing his job; it's not bullying. | |||
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"So lets imagine the fire service are called out to a house fire, they get there and are met with an inferno, flames coming out if the windows and people are trapped, the gaffa barks commands at his crew.Some might nit like the way he speaks to them Thats the job, get on with it or leave!! Interesting scenario you've imagined.. Tell you what would happen in my experience (not that I accept your scenario) .. The crews attending would get on with what they know has to be done, anyone who might not like how they were spoken to would raise it if they were that upset back at the station.. People do have personality clashes of course they do and people do leave a watch if they don't get on with someone else.. Which part if my scenario dont you accept? I doubt very much a firefighter will have a word with ouc regarding how he was spoken to, the adrenalin is flowing, you can dislike someone as much as you like so long as you all gell at an incident Always remember, there is a wanker on every shift and if there isnt, its probably you The point im trying to highlight is this The man incharge is going to be a little brusque when faced with my scenario, whuch could be construed as being harsh by certain members if the crew, and maybe bullying, which is total bollox
The oic can equally be a woman..
Again in my experience they will if they deem it necessary, however
this imagined scenario of yours is more of a deflection than what the report is about..
Someone being brusque on the foreground is nothing to do with bullying and harassment..
Exactly, but some would be offended and take it as bullying.im well aware the oic can be female and be good at being a gaffa "When you bully someone you aren't offending them. People don't have breakdowns, or become depressed over feeling offended. Have you imagined what it might feel like for one person to be picked on by someone of a higher authority, or a group of people? | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid." Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either" Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either I didnt Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. Ive not used any insulting language, called any body stupid, nothing staggering about that " | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either I didnt Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. Ive not used any insulting language, called any body stupid, nothing staggering about that " A few hours ago, you said this: "Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain" So she can't be sensitive to what she feels is an insult. Bit you can? I'm not agreeing nor condoning the comments directed at you but to complain about being insulted while stating other people should accept it in their workplace is completely hypocritical | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either I didnt Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. Ive not used any insulting language, called any body stupid, nothing staggering about that A few hours ago, you said this: "Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain" So she can't be sensitive to what she feels is an insult. Bit you can? I'm not agreeing nor condoning the comments directed at you but to complain about being insulted while stating other people should accept it in their workplace is completely hypocritical " I dont get it? Was she walking backwards? | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either I didnt Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. Ive not used any insulting language, called any body stupid, nothing staggering about that A few hours ago, you said this: "Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain" So she can't be sensitive to what she feels is an insult. Bit you can? I'm not agreeing nor condoning the comments directed at you but to complain about being insulted while stating other people should accept it in their workplace is completely hypocritical " They didnt tell her she’d got a fat arse and they dudnt call her stupid, and Im not sensitive, just trying to be level headed, like your good self, making your point without resorting to being petty | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either I didnt Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. Ive not used any insulting language, called any body stupid, nothing staggering about that A few hours ago, you said this: "Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain" So she can't be sensitive to what she feels is an insult. Bit you can? I'm not agreeing nor condoning the comments directed at you but to complain about being insulted while stating other people should accept it in their workplace is completely hypocritical They didnt tell her she’d got a fat arse and they dudnt call her stupid, and Im not sensitive, just trying to be level headed, like your good self, making your point without resorting to being petty" All she had to do was tell them to pack it in | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either I didnt Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. Ive not used any insulting language, called any body stupid, nothing staggering about that A few hours ago, you said this: "Part of the LFB report was about men making noises like a lorry reversing when a female colleague walked past, she’d obviously got a big arse, and sensitive about it, hardly worth the ink or paper to complain" So she can't be sensitive to what she feels is an insult. Bit you can? I'm not agreeing nor condoning the comments directed at you but to complain about being insulted while stating other people should accept it in their workplace is completely hypocritical They didnt tell her she’d got a fat arse and they dudnt call her stupid, and Im not sensitive, just trying to be level headed, like your good self, making your point without resorting to being petty All she had to do was tell them to pack it in" If only.. I'm not going out on a limb in saying my guess (based on similar issues in the same brigade) is pretty much all she would have wanted was the noises to stop.. Simple as that.. But for it to get to the point of someone feeling they have no option but to go official and raise it then it's gone too far for that person and in all likelihood it's been raised and ignored .. | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. " I think the general term is "snowflake". | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. I think the general term is "snowflake"." Or troll,eh cat | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. I think the general term is "snowflake". Or troll,eh cat" If the cap fits, wear it. | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. I think the general term is "snowflake". Or troll,eh cat If the cap fits, wear it." | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. I think the general term is "snowflake". Or troll,eh cat If the cap fits, wear it." It fits you nicely | |||
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"Falling over yourself to defend sexual assault is quite the look. On a swinging site where you want women to put themselves in a vulnerable position with you it could easily be described as stupid. Sexual assault?tell me more No need for insults either Its interesting, what one person feels is an insult. The lack of self awareness when you've dismissed the woman's complaint as not worth the paper it was written on yet at least twice yiyve taken exception to comments directed at you is staggering. I think the general term is "snowflake". Or troll,eh cat If the cap fits, wear it. It fits you nicely" | |||
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"Unfortunately working as a head coach in a sport, Ive found lately that its not the older generation coaches, Ive had to speak to about watching their languauge & their words used, but the younger generation being coached which I find surprising as i thought that being brought up in the current world they would have more understanding & empathy. However I cant control all areas outwith my remit Can only try & educate them when have them to coach. It takes time to change ingrained mindsets unfortunately" 100% agree with your experiences. Mine are the same. Ditto the language "banter" they use. Its bizarre. | |||
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"Perhaps the people appointed to look into it all have an agenda before they even begin? " Stop making sense. | |||
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"Lets all agree ? " Yes to that, let the fire men do their work without being labelled | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus " Yes I have and would do again. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus " To be fair a great number of people, these days, don’t jump in harms way for anyone. They just get their mobile phones out and film it…. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus " I personally dont think expecting the police to do their job and turning to them if I'm the victim of crime while also not expecting them to r@pe or murder women are mutually exlusive. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus " Amen to that | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus Amen to that Amen to that indeed "  | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus Amen to that Amen to that indeed "You seem to be suggesting we put these people on a pedestal and require no accountability from them. That’ll end well then  | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus Amen to that Amen to that indeed
You seem to be suggesting we put these people on a pedestal and require no accountability from them.
That’ll end well then "Not sure where you saw that. More of an indicator of your prejudices that you read that you took that from their comments. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus Amen to that Amen to that indeed
You seem to be suggesting we put these people on a pedestal and require no accountability from them.
That’ll end well then
Not sure where you saw that. More of an indicator of your prejudices that you read that you took that from their comments. "If you can’t see where I got it from I suggest a trip to the optician. I don’t have a prejudice regarding police and firemen. I believe everyone is accountable. | |||
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"For gods sake I’m sick of this culture. There’s a couple of bad examples out of hundreds and thousands and everyone jumps on the generalisation band wagon. There’s muppets everywhere. They will always be muppets dotted around society. Humans aren’t perfect so why is society trying to make everyone and everything perfect. It can’t be done. The sooner we all stop moaning about it the better we will be. It’s the same in here. Some guys are abusive when they get turned down. Doesn’t mean all men are bad. I’ve been in a mentally and emotionally abusive relationship. Doesn’t mean all women are bad. Not all police are bad. Not all firefighters are bad. I could go on….. " Yes but plenty are, and the more it’s ignored the more believe that behaviour to be acceptable and part of the job. Female firefighters have reported being assaulted at work and it’s been swept under the carpet. It’s not acceptable, and it’s possible for men to be both effective firefighters and not bigoted cunts. Those who are unable to be the former without being the latter should lose their jobs. As apparently it’s a small minority it shouldn’t affect the fire service or the police too much. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the people bashing those of us that don't follow the trend and condem the police, fire service would rush into harms way for strangers with no gratitude at the end of the day, or would you look to someone else to step up to the plate for you, so your hands stay clean on your ivory towers. There are bullies everywhere from children in kindergarten all the way to the government but until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a copper or fire fighter don't be so quick to throw them under the bus Amen to that Amen to that indeed
You seem to be suggesting we put these people on a pedestal and require no accountability from them.
That’ll end well then
Not sure where you saw that. More of an indicator of your prejudices that you read that you took that from their comments.
If you can’t see where I got it from I suggest a trip to the optician.
I don’t have a prejudice regarding police and firemen.
I believe everyone is accountable."Nope. Put my glasses on and still cant see where they wrote they should be put on a pedestal and not have accountability. | |||
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