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growing up poor
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"Has anyone watched this on the BBC? Also on iPlayer Should simply be called growing up! How is smoking cigs constantly. Having flat screen tellys and flock wallpaper living in poverty?!? They don't know they have it made, handed on a plate. I'm shocked the BBC allowed them to produce this. Granted I felt sorry for the wee Glaswegian lass with no cooker but Give up the fags if your that skint! The producer was obviously from a well off background unlike most others who lives through the 70s " You touched upon the BBC allowing 'them' to make this. Who do you think 'they' get 'their' mandate from? It isn't the programme producer who is out of touch and (probably) from a well off background, it's the leftist brigade in charge of the BBC who want a poor person who gets people's backs up. A standard poor person who offers nothing exciting to a progamme maker will always be passed over in favour of a chav with a big TV who chain smokes moaning about being poor, and more than likeley in a Scottish or Sarf Lundun accent. | |||
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"What are you on about, "leftist agenda"? It's the right that loves to see the poor as idle scroungers. " The right see them for what they really are, a drain on the system. It's the left that want to show them as victims of some secretive right-wing agenda to sweep them from _iew. | |||
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"Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other! I have about a grand a month. 700 of this goes to rent as the bloody council sell all property to housing groups who charge 900 a month to live In a shitty tenement. Without benefit paying the extra 200 a month id be fucked. My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real. I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh. Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse. " well said. I work my arse off and at the end of the mth I wonder why | |||
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"Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other! I have about a grand a month. 700 of this goes to rent as the bloody council sell all property to housing groups who charge 900 a month to live In a shitty tenement. Without benefit paying the extra 200 a month id be fucked. My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real. I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh. Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse. " but your not poor, you can afford housing and food and also to but the goods and services to go online, Poor in my eyes means poor, struggling to clothe and starving, living in sqaulor or on the streets, modern homes and and gadgets doesnt make you poor | |||
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" but your not poor, you can afford housing and food and also to but the goods and services to go online, Poor in my eyes means poor, struggling to clothe and starving, living in sqaulor or on the streets, modern homes and and gadgets doesnt make you poor " i think theres a difference between being poor and living in poverty, in my eye people on benifits who reply on free school meals and clothing vouchers are poor, living on the streets is living in poverty | |||
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"Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other! I have about a grand a month. 700 of this goes to rent as the bloody council sell all property to housing groups who charge 900 a month to live In a shitty tenement. Without benefit paying the extra 200 a month id be fucked. My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real. I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh. Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse. but your not poor, you can afford housing and food and also to but the goods and services to go online, Poor in my eyes means poor, struggling to clothe and starving, living in sqaulor or on the streets, modern homes and and gadgets doesnt make you poor " I'm not poor in relation to others however I do live in poverty. Faced with a choice of whether to heat my home or feed myself. Many others are worse off granted. My statement was in reply to others seemingly in denial that there is any poverty in this country. we give billions in aid to India, Ireland and many other countries, countries whivh has a higher proportion of billionaires than the UK, yet we can barely provide an adequate standard of living to the bulk of the population. Hands up who wasted a quid a couple of years back on a Make Poverty History wristband? | |||
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"I'm not poor in relation to others however I do live in poverty. Faced with a choice of whether to heat my home or feed myself." stop paying your internet connection, you could do both then  | |||
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"I'm not poor in relation to others however I do live in poverty. Faced with a choice of whether to heat my home or feed myself. stop paying your internet connection, you could do both then "I need to be online to work (and perv granted) or else I'd be a sponging waster eating up your taxes | |||
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I've lived with my 2 kids on my own for 15 years now. Like you had to pay greedy scum landlords for a roof over our head. While very 3rd house in our town belongs to some person from elsewhere as their charming holiday home. Credit all shot to f**k and no material possesions to show for it.
But you know what? I know I'm richer than any of these Tory scum who prey on the poor and have no idea what life is like down here.
Both my kids, 1 at Uni, other going in September have grown up with values and don't look down their nose at others. Which is much more than can be said for some of the forumites here! | |||
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".........The BBC is claimed to be right wing/ left wing depending on what your _iews are, to my unblinkered _iew it is impartial as it reports against and for both, the daily Scum which tis person also loves so much is another thing" Auntie will always be perceived as biased against the government of the day because of its requirement to to be seen to be impartial in the face of the government's (whichever complexion) greater automatic access to media coverage. | |||
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"Henry Ford once said "I need those poor people standing by the gates of my factories, it helps remind those inside who are complaining about the bad pay and long hours that there is someone outside who is prepared to do their job for even less money and work longer hours". The system is skewed in favour of a few at the expense of the many, to stop anyone getting wise to this fact governments are busy using spin and mis-direction to have everyone fight amongst themselves and ignoring their part in all of this. The poor in this country have little compared to the rich, and waffling on about flat screen tv and other so called "luxuries" is not an example of them being lazy and feckless, try sitting at home and watching the wallpaper for a few evenings, you will see that the TV is a necessity and a respite from the mind numbing boredom of being stuck at home without money and the ability to go out and enjoy yourself when yopu want. The governemts own figures show an extra 1100 people entering this country every week, so where are they going and what are they doing for money?. Little has been said about the number of immigrants who can legally claim benefits after 6 months despite never having paid into the benefit system. Even less is being done about the number of immigrants from the EU who work here unaccompanied but can still claim child benefit for kids back in their home country. The government is supposed to be representatives of the people that voted them into power, instead they seem to be inept beurocratic idiots who keep looking to finding a scapegoat to blame for their mishandling of the country." I dont think the govt is mishandling anything. They are representing the big business and banking interests they are there to represent. People tend to delude themselves that the govt is there to represent them. The govt clearly hates the people, it has attacked,undermigned and villified doctors, nurses, fire services, police, pensioners, the unemployed, teachers, the disabled and anyone else claiming any benefit. | |||
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" But you know what? I know I'm richer than any of these Tory scum who prey on the poor and have no idea what life is like down here. Both my kids, 1 at Uni, other going in September have grown up with values and don't look down their nose at others. Which is much more than can be said for some of the forumites here!" Richer? No you're not. Anyway, who in their right mind wants to know what life's like down at the poor end if they're used to living in comfort? It's not the job of the rich to pay for you. Build your own pile like a lot of hardworking people have (who have also paid far more in tax than you ever will). As for your kids not looking down their noses at people, well, when they get used to earnign well (assuming that's why you wanted them to go to Uni) they'll soon get quite defensive of their comfortable life if anyone criticises it, probably along the lines of: "we're from a working class background and have had to fight all the way to get where we are so we're entitled to it". You see, I don't know anyone who would give up wealth and comfort for a life of struggling to make ends meet just so they could wear their red rosette with smug satisfaction. | |||
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"The governemts own figures show an extra 1100 people entering this country every week, so where are they going and what are they doing for money?. " Do those figures also show how many people are leaving to return to their home countries? Or how many Brits are emmigrating for a life somewhere else? What are the net figures of additional people in this country? | |||
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"The governemts own figures show an extra 1100 people entering this country every week, so where are they going and what are they doing for money?. Do those figures also show how many people are leaving to return to their home countries? Or how many Brits are emmigrating for a life somewhere else? What are the net figures of additional people in this country?" It ain't like Harriers. We count them in (the legal ones anyway) but we don't count them out. | |||
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" .......You see, I don't know anyone who would give up wealth and comfort for a life of struggling to make ends meet just so they could wear their red rosette with smug satisfaction." It's perfectly possible to have both wealth and comfort whilst helping those who are struggling. | |||
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"If you are a thick unimaginative cunt life is all about the accumalation of money and posessions. If you believe thats why you were born then in my eyes you live your life in poverty." I'll remind nyself of that this evening as I settle down with a nice brandy after the kids are in bed.... and then promptly forget about anyone outside who would steal my stuff given the opportunity. I've been on skid row and nobody helped me out, least of all the govt, so fuck em is my attitude these days, but hey, feel free to be as philanthropic as you want. | |||
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"Do people really think there is no true poverty in the UK? If you do can I live in your society - it is a hell of a lot better than the one that I know exists all over the UK. Do you really think that everyone on benefits wants to be, could get a job if they wanted to? The Media is doing exactly what this government want, depicting those on welfare as cheating scoundrels that live a better life than those who work. Why? They are introducing changes to the welfare system that are worrying not just for those on benefits but also for those that work with them. Shy" | |||
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".......but I will NOT give to any UK charity as I believe, that REAL poverty is ONLY in 3rd world countries, where they have no choices to get out of their plight! " That's quite the most blinkered attitude to povery I've read here - and there are some SERIOUSLY blinkered attitudes on Fab. NO real poverty in the UK? Nonsense. | |||
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"Anyone who reduces themselves to referring to any other human being as scum cannot really be taken seriously." You mean it's a bit like 'pleb' in that regard? | |||
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"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum." Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm? | |||
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"Anyone who reduces themselves to referring to any other human being as scum cannot really be taken seriously. You mean it's a bit like 'pleb' in that regard?" Why? Has someone being calling people plebs then? | |||
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"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances." So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty? Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it? | |||
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"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances." I remember Gordon Brown trying to say it was his mission to ensure every child IN THE WORLD could read & write. He said it was his duty ro eradicate poverty. I wonder if he still feels it's his mission since he left No.10. He's been pretty quiet since then. | |||
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"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances. So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty? Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it?" It SHOULD be their parents but some just aren't capable and if they are working and are having to make choices about food, clothes or heating then I want to help those children through a societal/state response. However, I also think we have had a period in society where we have bred a generation of people who have remained infantalised for too long. The post about the young woman and her boyfriend being too lazy to fend for themselves and PLANNING a child makes me just as angry at their parents as it does them. As children become older they should be taught a work ethic and that things cost money. When they become adults charge them rent. Stop treating them as helpless children and bailing them out all the time. I have a friend I love dearly but she is still supporting her sons who are in their mid and late twenties and acting like children. I see it more and more and I despair that these will be the people we have to count on as we age. | |||
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"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances. So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty? Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it?" That's too much of a loaded question to answer it with the only answer you want to hear. It is the parent's job to protect their children from the effects of poverty, but if they can't protect themselves from it they're not likely to pay much attention to their children escaping it. So it falls to the taxpayer to bail them out, and that's right and proper, but it shouldn't be a catch all scenario where people on lowe or no income can adopt the attitude that they can continue breeding knowing full well that Joe Public will pick up the tab. It should be a shame to be on welfare, not a right. | |||
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"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances. I remember Gordon Brown trying to say it was his mission to ensure every child IN THE WORLD could read & write. He said it was his duty ro eradicate poverty. I wonder if he still feels it's his mission since he left No.10. He's been pretty quiet since then." I'm not sure how that links to my post but I recognise that no one person can eradicate poverty or ensure that every child in the world is literate. I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too. | |||
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"What are you on about, "leftist agenda"? It's the right that loves to see the poor as idle scroungers. " Absolutely right! And it's sheep who follow, blissfully ignorant and allowing themselves and their fellow man/woman to be walked all over, whilst the rich get ever richer. Slavery wasn't abandoned, just made more commonplace. | |||
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"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too." Absolutely. My core belief is that education is the key to humanity moving forward. It starts in the playground at age 5 and from that age children should be taught about tolerance and helping those in need, but they should also be taught that living off the state is no way to live. | |||
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"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances. So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty? Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it? That's too much of a loaded question to answer it with the only answer you want to hear. It is the parent's job to protect their children from the effects of poverty, but if they can't protect themselves from it they're not likely to pay much attention to their children escaping it. So it falls to the taxpayer to bail them out, and that's right and proper, but it shouldn't be a catch all scenario where people on lowe or no income can adopt the attitude that they can continue breeding knowing full well that Joe Public will pick up the tab. It should be a shame to be on welfare, not a right." I agree with what you are saying but not the word shame. What is wrong with having dignity? Raising a child aware of the "shame" of being on a benefit of some sort smacks of a Dickensian novel. We are already walking into the language of the deserving and undeserving poor. My argument is that children should not be tarred with this. | |||
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"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too. Absolutely. My core belief is that education is the key to humanity moving forward. It starts in the playground at age 5 and from that age children should be taught about tolerance and helping those in need, but they should also be taught that living off the state is no way to live." It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital. By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done. | |||
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"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too. Absolutely. My core belief is that education is the key to humanity moving forward. It starts in the playground at age 5 and from that age children should be taught about tolerance and helping those in need, but they should also be taught that living off the state is no way to live. It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital. By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done." I'll not take too much notice of a bunch of people who believe that the purpose of their faith is to promote it by any means neccessary, and who actively seek to undermine other religions by surplanting it with their own. I deliberately said 'age 5' as we were talking about structured education and if we want a structured programme to tackle ignorance via education then it has to be at school, as not all parents are capable or willing to do it at home. | |||
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"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too. Absolutely. My core belief is that education is the key to humanity moving forward. It starts in the playground at age 5 and from that age children should be taught about tolerance and helping those in need, but they should also be taught that living off the state is no way to live. It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital. By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done. I'll not take too much notice of a bunch of people who believe that the purpose of their faith is to promote it by any means neccessary, and who actively seek to undermine other religions by surplanting it with their own. I deliberately said 'age 5' as we were talking about structured education and if we want a structured programme to tackle ignorance via education then it has to be at school, as not all parents are capable or willing to do it at home." ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out. All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity. | |||
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"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too. Absolutely. My core belief is that education is the key to humanity moving forward. It starts in the playground at age 5 and from that age children should be taught about tolerance and helping those in need, but they should also be taught that living off the state is no way to live. It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital. By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done. I'll not take too much notice of a bunch of people who believe that the purpose of their faith is to promote it by any means neccessary, and who actively seek to undermine other religions by surplanting it with their own. I deliberately said 'age 5' as we were talking about structured education and if we want a structured programme to tackle ignorance via education then it has to be at school, as not all parents are capable or willing to do it at home. ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out. All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity." I'll remind you of your should/does question you posed earlier. | |||
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"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc " You just mentioned it. 
What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep? | |||
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"ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out. All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity." Mental incapacity covers such a lot. You can be very well educated and bright but not have a loving bone in your body. AND be a parent. I used to work with someone who loved her children, in her way, but she was always so busy and career oriented that she would forget to pick them up from school if she was in work mode. She came into work one day saying that she'd just found out her seven year old son could read. She just had noticed that he was developing. Mental incapacity? No one would say so if they met her but yet... | |||
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"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc You just mentioned it.
What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?"Why not just have them cutting sugar in the West Indes? | |||
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"ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out. All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity. Mental incapacity covers such a lot. You can be very well educated and bright but not have a loving bone in your body. AND be a parent. I used to work with someone who loved her children, in her way, but she was always so busy and career oriented that she would forget to pick them up from school if she was in work mode. She came into work one day saying that she'd just found out her seven year old son could read. She just had noticed that he was developing. Mental incapacity? No one would say so if they met her but yet..." There are always perfect examples and exceptions. The bottom line is that if a child doesn't know the basics of right v wrong by the time they reach 5, they never will. You only have to glance into the school playground to tell which are which. | |||
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"sometimes education doesnt help, now a days children are taught very early about drugs and contraception, but yet the use of drugs is rising and the lack of use of contraception is a major factor of the rise in S,T,D and teenage pregnancy, The daughter we was talking about comes from a family home un broken both parents value work and encouraged it, and are working class and educated , Yet she still chose the easy option, at some point the goverment has to take the blame for helping the lazy become lazy and sponge of the tax payer " Education ALWAYS helps. People will still make poor choices but education is always better than ignorance - no matter how prevalent ignorance is in our society. | |||
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"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc You just mentioned it.
What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?
Why not just have them cutting sugar in the West Indes?"Most of it is in Mauritius now. | |||
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"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc You just mentioned it.
What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?
Why not just have them cutting sugar in the West Indes?"It's a job isn't it? | |||
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"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum. Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm?" Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up. | |||
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"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum. Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm? Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up." Surely you mean the cunts of this world? | |||
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"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum. Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm? Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up. Surely you mean the cunts of this world?" He's probably too polite to say Tories - but we know what he means. | |||
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"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum. Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm? Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up. Surely you mean the cunts of this world? He's probably too polite to say Tories - but we know what he means." No, he's not polite, he said cunts earlier. I think he said Tories too.  | |||
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"........... Surely you mean the cunts of this world? He's probably too polite to say Tories - but we know what he means. No, he's not polite, he said cunts earlier. I think he said Tories too. "They're pretty much interchangeable nowadays. | |||
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"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain. 1. Stupidity 2. Laziness 3. Irresponsibility. Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society." Unbelievable reply | |||
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"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain. 1. Stupidity 2. Laziness 3. Irresponsibility. Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society." That's an interesting one, happen to know an awful lot of people in the financial sector who these three can be applied to and yet despite being far more of a financial drain on taxpayers they are back on their bonuses and costing each of us more than 8k each. | |||
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"i read that 6% of the world population owns 59% of the worlds wealth. so its pretty hard to get a good share of it " For a long while the figures for Scotland were 7% of the population owns 84% of the wealth. | |||
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"4 Illness 5 Redundancy " genuine illness, not like the one who worked for me, who developed acute agoraphobia but thankfully working in her mum and dads pub helped her overcome it just before going on half pay... | |||
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"Back in the days my family were so poor we used the old outdoor clay plumbing pipes stuffed with straw as pillows and ate gravel mixed with water instead of baked beans ,,how things change with time" You lucky bastard... we used to get up before we went to bed...work 96 hours a day and lived in a shoe box in the middle of the road...the good old days! | |||
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"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain. 1. Stupidity 2. Laziness 3. Irresponsibility. Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society." sounds like what you need to become a banker | |||
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"4 Illness 5 Redundancy " So true so if we stop the first 3 then the sick and down on the luck could be given more! | |||
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"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain. 1. Stupidity 2. Laziness 3. Irresponsibility. Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society. sounds like what you need to become a banker" Sounds like rhyming slang. | |||
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"Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other! I have about a grand a month. 700 of this goes to rent as the bloody council sell all property to housing groups who charge 900 a month to live In a shitty tenement. Without benefit paying the extra 200 a month id be fucked. My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real. I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh. Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse. " hear hear....i work im a single parent ,i get help with my rent , ok...but my gas alone at the moment is £60 a week (i have a token meter) just to keep warm and eat healthily ....i feed my kids before me and beleive me somtimes i have too.. | |||
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"Back in the days my family were so poor we used the old outdoor clay plumbing pipes stuffed with straw as pillows and ate gravel mixed with water instead of baked beans ,,how things change with time" You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt. Courtesy of Python, M productions | |||
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"Back in the days my family were so poor we used the old outdoor clay plumbing pipes stuffed with straw as pillows and ate gravel mixed with water instead of baked beans ,,how things change with time You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt. Courtesy of Python, M productions " | |||
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"4 Illness 5 Redundancy So true so if we stop the first 3 then the sick and down on the luck could be given more!" Which is what the Welfare State was originally designed to do way back in 1947. | |||
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"Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other! I have about a grand a month. 700 of this goes to rent as the bloody council sell all property to housing groups who charge 900 a month to live In a shitty tenement. Without benefit paying the extra 200 a month id be fucked. My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real. I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh. Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse. " But you still have enough for mobile internet access? Three degrees you say? I'm sure Prince Charles could find a use for you. | |||
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"Growing up poor is very different these days to how I remember my childhood circa 80/90s my parents had very little money to feed clothe and heat four children all spare cash went on household items/bills we lived by a simple mantra if you have no money you can't afford it unlike some of today's poor people who seem to live in a deluded world of material items and the latest must have craze . Our family as skint as we were put emphasis on the word family days out constituted walks with the dogs days at the park playing football but instilled into us was an ethic not to resent our upbringing but respect it and have a work ethic to better ourselves since taking a risk and setting my own business up I now keep four people in employment yes I drive a decent car etc etc but that comes down to the core values of my youth funny how people get jealous tho" I grow up as a Orphan I have no family and spent my childhood in Orphanages, being moved from one to the other never had any possessions ended up on the streets at 16 no money no home and no help from the government. Kids nowadays can not say they are poor, nowadays the government throw money at them! Pisses me of programs like that fuck um and let um starve! | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society " I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!  | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping! "
plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!
plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered" 
That too! | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!
plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered"Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet | |||
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"Do people really think there is no true poverty in the UK? If you do can I live in your society - it is a hell of a lot better than the one that I know exists all over the UK. Do you really think that everyone on benefits wants to be, could get a job if they wanted to? The Media is doing exactly what this government want, depicting those on welfare as cheating scoundrels that live a better life than those who work. Why? They are introducing changes to the welfare system that are worrying not just for those on benefits but also for those that work with them. Shy" Hear, hear! | |||
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"We dont have genuine poverty problem really in this country or any in the west, If you look at all these so called poor familys all have flat screen tv, mobile phones smokes fags designers clothes, they arent using hand me downs clothes,lets be honest with the benefits system in this country is enough to clothe and feed you, so its miss spent money and commercialism as people believe they have to have the latest tv or tablet computer, example a single parent with 3 kids at christmas spent more money than we did and we both work , she bought a tablet for her daughter at 5 yrs old, and all the rest got hundreds of pounds spent on them, the other month my brother a registered piss head phoned me up asking what im doing, he was going to town with his kids and ex going to buy some clothes have a pub lunch , then they was of out for the night, we couldnt afford that, Poverty my ass " Try reading the Jack Monroe (agirlcalledjack) blog - a single mum of 23 who tried working and found it was incompatible with the system. Doesn't smoke, sold her tv and most of her posessions. Went hungry to feed her child - and even he was hungry at times.  Thankfully her situation has improved (but is still not brilliant) Ignore the left wing politics if you wish - I did
Real poverty (no tv, no car, no smoking etc) most definitely exists. I work with a charity who deliver care packages to families in need - basic essentials which they cannot afford (often through no fault of their own) | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!
plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered
Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet "I used catalogues! So just to clarify... We've moved into an age of technology and be quad I choose to embrace that I'm personally helping to put people out of a job? I've lost two jobs in 3 years due to cut backs. I'm a legal secretary normally but guess where I'm hiding out now ... Oh yeah baby ... In IT. When the world changes you move with it. In between while I was waiting for this job I worked in the co op and did cam girl stuff. At no point did I go on in one support. If I'd had to, I would have picked up a mop and cleaned. | |||
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".............. Real poverty (no tv, no car, no smoking etc) most definitely exists. I work with a charity who deliver care packages to families in need - basic essentials which they cannot afford (often through no fault of their own) " Real poverty is no roof, no food, no pals and no hope. Lots of folk survive quite happily with no telly, car or fags. | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!
plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered
Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet
I used catalogues! So just to clarify... We've moved into an age of technology and be quad I choose to embrace that I'm personally helping to put people out of a job? I've lost two jobs in 3 years due to cut backs. I'm a legal secretary normally but guess where I'm hiding out now ... Oh yeah baby ... In IT. When the world changes you move with it. In between while I was waiting for this job I worked in the co op and did cam girl stuff. At no point did I go on in one support. If I'd had to, I would have picked up a mop and cleaned."Weird words should read "because" and "income". Damn phone! | |||
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"What gets me is where the hell was our PM when Thatcher managed to get the nation rioting , because this fool is making all the same mistakes , how long will it be before his Tory mates stab him in the back and chuck him overboard......lol The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get ..... "The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun. | |||
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"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!
plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered
Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet
I used catalogues! So just to clarify... We've moved into an age of technology and be quad I choose to embrace that I'm personally helping to put people out of a job? I've lost two jobs in 3 years due to cut backs. I'm a legal secretary normally but guess where I'm hiding out now ... Oh yeah baby ... In IT. When the world changes you move with it. In between while I was waiting for this job I worked in the co op and did cam girl stuff. At no point did I go on in one support. If I'd had to, I would have picked up a mop and cleaned.
Weird words should read "because" and "income". Damn phone! "Almost every place I ever worked has closed down. That's about ten companies in 14 years. I've been called all kinds of lazy regardless of the fact I went from Associated Press and the Dept for work and Pensions to scrubbing toilets just to put money on the table. But then when I couldn't get paid for suffering mental and physical illness combined, I just refused to sign on. Had no other choice at first because I really was that ill and now it's a matter of principle because they're so irresponsible now that I can't believe I ever worked there. If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business! | |||
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"What gets me is where the hell was our PM when Thatcher managed to get the nation rioting , because this fool is making all the same mistakes , how long will it be before his Tory mates stab him in the back and chuck him overboard......lol The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get .....
The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun."Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity. | |||
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"There are complex reasons for poverty, both political economic and social economic factors are huge influences and sometimes determinants of both present and future poverty. These will feed into areas such as education and health. It is also wise to consider poverty in a context of deprivation. There is abroad spectrum from total deprivation which is absence of the essentials we need to survive (hunger, homelessness, etc) to that of relative deprivation in which children for example may have clothing and shoes but not the designer type which society promotes as being the norm or fashion. The Govt attacks on the poor are ultimately self defeating. They constrained housing and it led to millions of homelessness and ultimately a false price for houses as all know the market was inflated. Led to us losing 25% of our national wealth. So more attacks on the poor are not going to help. If you want to end poverty, or relative deprivation, you need to invest in the capital required to achieve a good standard of living in todays world. You need investment in the education systems, the infrastructure particularly transport and housing, and the other essentials such as the energy utilities. If we did that we would have found ourselves without an economic collapse and without poverty. Not on the scale we see today certainly. Instead we spent it on wars and buying houses in Spain. That went well didn't it? " Good shout, plus going to war is a bit redundant when the government isn't housing active soldiers and their families and then the veterans. | |||
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".......... If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!"
Support your local shops! | |||
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".......... If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!
Support your local shops!" | |||
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" ........... The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun. Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity." I guess you didn't watch PMQ's at lunchtime then. | |||
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"What gets me is where the hell was our PM when Thatcher managed to get the nation rioting , because this fool is making all the same mistakes , how long will it be before his Tory mates stab him in the back and chuck him overboard......lol The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get .....
The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.
Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity."Cameron went in with a corporate management style: he is the chief executive and Osborne is CFO. The rest of the board will not change anything that duo are determined to do. Any speaking out of turn is showing disloyalty to the company. One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed. | |||
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".......... If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!
Support your local shops!
"If they lower their prices I might! | |||
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" ........... The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun. Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity. " My local MP in Liverpool Steve Rotherham fought the DWP on my behalf. Seriously awesome guy. Cameron refuses to answer his questions quite a lot. He certainly doesn't like challengers nevermind critics. So different to the days when he was having to charm people and lie blatantly as opposed to now just having his "Lib Dem" glove-puppet Nick Clegg apologise for having no control. I took it upon myself to name this comical two headed bitch of a world destroyer... it's name is... CLEGGERON!!! | |||
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" .......... One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed." The good people of Notting Hill, particularly POrtland Rd, might disgree. | |||
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".......... If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!
Support your local shops!
If they lower their prices I might! "If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left. | |||
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".......... If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!
Support your local shops!
If they lower their prices I might!
If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left."Ill go online and find a different store  | |||
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" .......... One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed. The good people of Notting Hill, particularly POrtland Rd, might disgree." There are areas that have changed (parts of Islington, Isle of Dogs and the Docks and Notting Hill) I agree - but look at the Indices of Deprivation and the Booth map. More than 100 years later the "progress" is relative. | |||
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" If they lower their prices I might! If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left." YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation! | |||
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" .......... One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed. The good people of Notting Hill, particularly POrtland Rd, might disgree. There are areas that have changed (parts of Islington, Isle of Dogs and the Docks and Notting Hill) I agree - but look at the Indices of Deprivation and the Booth map. More than 100 years later the "progress" is relative." I dunno if you remember Roy Brooks (Brothel in Pimlico). It was said he used Booth's maps to decide where to make decisions about the 'next trendy areas'. | |||
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" If they lower their prices I might! If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left. YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation!" Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores. | |||
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" If they lower their prices I might! If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left. YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation! Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores." If Walmart are providing the goods an average household needs on a weekly basis why shouldn't they see it as employee loyalty to spend it in their stores. If those vouchers were tax-free I'd wage a lot of employees would insist on receiving them. I invest in the stock market but I would never buy shares in a company whose products or services I don't use. Why would I not use a company I have a vested interest in? I might as well take my money into the garden and burn it. | |||
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" ........... The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun. Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity. My local MP in Liverpool Steve Rotherham fought the DWP on my behalf. Seriously awesome guy. Cameron refuses to answer his questions quite a lot. He certainly doesn't like challengers nevermind critics. So different to the days when he was having to charm people and lie blatantly as opposed to now just having his "Lib Dem" glove-puppet Nick Clegg apologise for having no control. I took it upon myself to name this comical two headed bitch of a world destroyer... it's name is... CLEGGERON!!!" Spoken like a true Hattonite. | |||
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"I took it upon myself to name this comical two headed bitch of a world destroyer... it's name is... CLEGGERON!!! Spoken like a true Hattonite. "  | |||
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" ........... The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun. Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity. I guess you didn't watch PMQ's at lunchtime then." No need, it's no different from any other PMQs from any other point in recent history. Blair/Brown got the same treatment from their own backbenchers, as did Thatcher in her days as PM. | |||
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" ........... The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun. Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity. I guess you didn't watch PMQ's at lunchtime then. No need, it's no different from any other PMQs from any other point in recent history. Blair/Brown got the same treatment from their own backbenchers, as did Thatcher in her days as PM." That's where you're wrong. There's been nothing like the disdain in which Cameron is held. | |||
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" If they lower their prices I might! If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left. YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation! Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores. If Walmart are providing the goods an average household needs on a weekly basis why shouldn't they see it as employee loyalty to spend it in their stores. If those vouchers were tax-free I'd wage a lot of employees would insist on receiving them. I invest in the stock market but I would never buy shares in a company whose products or services I don't use. Why would I not use a company I have a vested interest in? I might as well take my money into the garden and burn it." You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy. | |||
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" If they lower their prices I might! If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left. YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation! Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores. If Walmart are providing the goods an average household needs on a weekly basis why shouldn't they see it as employee loyalty to spend it in their stores. If those vouchers were tax-free I'd wage a lot of employees would insist on receiving them. I invest in the stock market but I would never buy shares in a company whose products or services I don't use. Why would I not use a company I have a vested interest in? I might as well take my money into the garden and burn it. You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy." Then it's just one step closer towards abolishing pay and people having to live off a credit system where all the unemployed are completely wiped out. The Nazi's did that when they initiated Austria! | |||
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" ............... You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy." That's almost Thatcherite. Don't let Cameron/ Osborne hear you say it. | |||
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"The reason local shops are more expensive is because they have less economies of scale to bring to the market and the high rents and rates are killing them. Supermarkets have far more economic power and thus can afford to promote lower pricing for goods. However too much efficiency can create a paradox. You have the whole thing run supply end you end up with no demand. Why we are in such a mess. That is something greedy people cannot quite get their head around. So just as with poverty, complex reasons behind local shops, supermarkets, and internet retailing, and at the end of the day economic forces will win out. If the internet can provide the goods cheaper then it will be the bigger retailer in each specific market it caters towards. " The corporate system as created by themselves. The more you buy, the more you save. The more you make the less you're taxed. Help the big guys destroy the little guys because they can't afford to all by their lonesome | |||
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" You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy." That's taking it to the extreme lickety, and it will never happen. Any govt that permits it will also have to turn their country into a dictatorship because if they don't they'll find themselves voted out of office. The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me. | |||
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"The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me." Unfortunately that may very well be the beginning of a bigger problem. People doing themselves out of more money. No such system is made to help, it's made to see how much more you can make people spend. Call 10% of your wages free food and you lose perspective in time  | |||
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"The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me. Unfortunately that may very well be the beginning of a bigger problem. People doing themselves out of more money. No such system is made to help, it's made to see how much more you can make people spend. Call 10% of your wages free food and you lose perspective in time "Before you know it the 10% becomes 90%. Why wouldn't you go for it? IT's all tax free, isn't it? | |||
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"The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me. Unfortunately that may very well be the beginning of a bigger problem. People doing themselves out of more money. No such system is made to help, it's made to see how much more you can make people spend. Call 10% of your wages free food and you lose perspective in time
Before you know it the 10% becomes 90%. Why wouldn't you go for it? IT's all tax free, isn't it?"AND when that percentage loses value as compared to national wage and inflation of VAT goods are you going to do the maths every year to make sure they're not analising you and filling their own pockets with unchecked bonuses? | |||
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" You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy. That's taking it to the extreme lickety, and it will never happen. Any govt that permits it will also have to turn their country into a dictatorship because if they don't they'll find themselves voted out of office. The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me." Follow the model through and think about world economics. It won't be long before globalisation will mean that only a handful of companies will own and run everything. Will your business survive if they spread their services to cover electricians and their workers spent their vouchers at Walmart? The larger the organisation and the more employees it has the more of a dictatorship you create. How long before you find that where you do spend your free money is just a subsidiary of the parent company? If the voucher allows them to charge you at market rates for what they get at wholesale rates they would be daft not to offer a whole suite of things you cannot live without. | |||
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"The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me. Unfortunately that may very well be the beginning of a bigger problem. People doing themselves out of more money. No such system is made to help, it's made to see how much more you can make people spend. Call 10% of your wages free food and you lose perspective in time
Before you know it the 10% becomes 90%. Why wouldn't you go for it? IT's all tax free, isn't it?"So let me get this straight.. you'd much prefer to hand over 20% of your wages to the govt so you can secure the priviledge of spending the other 80% wherever you want? In actuality, it'll never be 90% simply because the govt will still want their cut of your wages, typically 35% if you include N.I. too. I don't think it's such a huge issue to spend 10% of your salary in the supermarket where you work, and they might even deliver it for free for you too, plus you get to know about all the lovely offers long before the outside world does. A friend of mine worked for B&Q and he never bought anything from a rival store simply because he didn't need to. he was already at a DIY store everyday and didn't need to travel to another one. and got a generous staff discount for doing so too. | |||
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" You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy. That's taking it to the extreme lickety, and it will never happen. Any govt that permits it will also have to turn their country into a dictatorship because if they don't they'll find themselves voted out of office. The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me. Follow the model through and think about world economics. It won't be long before globalisation will mean that only a handful of companies will own and run everything. Will your business survive if they spread their services to cover electricians and their workers spent their vouchers at Walmart? The larger the organisation and the more employees it has the more of a dictatorship you create. How long before you find that where you do spend your free money is just a subsidiary of the parent company? If the voucher allows them to charge you at market rates for what they get at wholesale rates they would be daft not to offer a whole suite of things you cannot live without." Which companies do huge multinationals like Tescos own? It makes for surprising reading that in some instances you could be spending your money with completely different companies but when you look at the heirarchy it all goes back to one parent company anyway. | |||
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" If they lower their prices I might! If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left. YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation! Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores. If Walmart are providing the goods an average household needs on a weekly basis why shouldn't they see it as employee loyalty to spend it in their stores. If those vouchers were tax-free I'd wage a lot of employees would insist on receiving them. I invest in the stock market but I would never buy shares in a company whose products or services I don't use. Why would I not use a company I have a vested interest in? I might as well take my money into the garden and burn it." I cant believe even you would come away with a quote like that, it would not be tax free and they are employees not shareholders and should be paid in hard cash. So would you as a shareholder must be ok with having your dividends paid in vouchers then? It really smacks of the bad old days "I owe my soul to the company store" | |||
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" ............... Follow the model through and think about world economics. It won't be long before globalisation will mean that only a handful of companies will own and run everything. Will your business survive if they spread their services to cover electricians and their workers spent their vouchers at Walmart? The larger the organisation and the more employees it has the more of a dictatorship you create. How long before you find that where you do spend your free money is just a subsidiary of the parent company? If the voucher allows them to charge you at market rates for what they get at wholesale rates they would be daft not to offer a whole suite of things you cannot live without." Those who support this model do so on the assumption THEY'll be one of whose making the decisions. It ain't so. | |||
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" Follow the model through and think about world economics. It won't be long before globalisation will mean that only a handful of companies will own and run everything. Will your business survive if they spread their services to cover electricians and their workers spent their vouchers at Walmart? The larger the organisation and the more employees it has the more of a dictatorship you create. How long before you find that where you do spend your free money is just a subsidiary of the parent company? If the voucher allows them to charge you at market rates for what they get at wholesale rates they would be daft not to offer a whole suite of things you cannot live without. Which companies do huge multinationals like Tescos own? It makes for surprising reading that in some instances you could be spending your money with completely different companies but when you look at the heirarchy it all goes back to one parent company anyway." Look at Walmart - they own a hell of a lot more than it appears on the surface. Not to mention the "dead peasants" policies they had not that long ago. | |||
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" So would you as a shareholder must be ok with having your dividends paid in vouchers then? " If that was the best financial offer available to me then yes I would be ok with it. Example: If I could have dividends of 10p per share in cash, or vouchers equal to the value of 20p per share, I'd take the vouchers as that's a 100% better offer for me financially. As I said, I don't buy shares in companies I don't use, so a voucher offer instead of cold cash is money that I would spend with them anyway but this way I'd get a far better deal out of it, AND free up money to spend elsewhere. The better the share price, the better valued are my shares, the more profit I get in the long run. Pure economics. | |||
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" Follow the model through and think about world economics. It won't be long before globalisation will mean that only a handful of companies will own and run everything. Will your business survive if they spread their services to cover electricians and their workers spent their vouchers at Walmart? The larger the organisation and the more employees it has the more of a dictatorship you create. How long before you find that where you do spend your free money is just a subsidiary of the parent company? If the voucher allows them to charge you at market rates for what they get at wholesale rates they would be daft not to offer a whole suite of things you cannot live without. Which companies do huge multinationals like Tescos own? It makes for surprising reading that in some instances you could be spending your money with completely different companies but when you look at the heirarchy it all goes back to one parent company anyway. Look at Walmart - they own a hell of a lot more than it appears on the surface. Not to mention the "dead peasants" policies they had not that long ago." And the Waltons are one of the richest families on the planet. What do they give back? Fuckers! The worst thing is that our economy is getting screwed by american corporations syphoning profits off overseas in huge tax bonuses while america owes us massively | |||
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" .............. The better the share price, the better valued are my shares, the more profit I get in the long run. Pure economics." Only as function of the purchase price less dealing costs. Applied economics. | |||
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"america owes us massively" Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?  | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something? "No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago. | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something? "We paid the money back years ago. We still owe them an enormous debt of gratitude. | |||
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"Has anyone watched this on the BBC? Also on iPlayer Should simply be called growing up! How is smoking cigs constantly. Having flat screen tellys and flock wallpaper living in poverty?!? They don't know they have it made, handed on a plate. I'm shocked the BBC allowed them to produce this. Granted I felt sorry for the wee Glaswegian lass with no cooker but Give up the fags if your that skint! The producer was obviously from a well off background unlike most others who lives through the 70s " | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?
No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago."Didn't realise that, I thought we still owed them. | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something? "Trillions in WWII debt is not right unless someone's been playing with the interest rates. They've been taking plenty through tax evasion. They've also been playing magical disappearing tricks with the world's gold bullion and are the ones buying off the world's oil supply and selling it to us expensive. Rupert Murdoch's Newscorp alone makes billions every year and pays about 10% less corporate tax a year than is the law. That's just the newspapers while the minimum wagers are lumped with higher taxes. We owe the americans jack shit in my eyes! | |||
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"It is in truth an attempt to take us back to the Plantation. It is all there from the permanent tenant to the credit economy and its billing exercises which are nominal and not real in terms of what is wealth. The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system. In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society. We have a depression. Some areas have jobs but large parts of the country have none or very few. I think demanding cuts to benefits and pointing fingers at the poor during a Depression that was caused by criminality, fraud, theft and widespread mismanagement in the financial sector is a disgrace and a mark of stupidity for anyone working class to support. It isn't those who get 71 quid a week to live on who are to blame for the mess our country is in. People should reflect on that and focus on the real culprits. Our elites and their stupid ideas on economy and society." Bollocks | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something? "Actually America now owes us trillions. The largest investor into the US at the time of the financial system collapse was the UK. Mainly in mortgage investment. When that went the lot started to go. We invest double what the Chinese do in the US but you don't get to hear about that as that is acceptable. To put it into scale 50% of all foreign investment into the US during the year of the collapse in 2007 was from the UK. | |||
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"It is in truth an attempt to take us back to the Plantation. It is all there from the permanent tenant to the credit economy and its billing exercises which are nominal and not real in terms of what is wealth. The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system. In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society. We have a depression. Some areas have jobs but large parts of the country have none or very few. I think demanding cuts to benefits and pointing fingers at the poor during a Depression that was caused by criminality, fraud, theft and widespread mismanagement in the financial sector is a disgrace and a mark of stupidity for anyone working class to support. It isn't those who get 71 quid a week to live on who are to blame for the mess our country is in. People should reflect on that and focus on the real culprits. Our elites and their stupid ideas on economy and society." | |||
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" ............ We owe the americans jack shit in my eyes!" They make us feel a bit better about ourselves. | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?
Actually America now owes us trillions. The largest investor into the US at the time of the financial system collapse was the UK. Mainly in mortgage investment. When that went the lot started to go.
We invest double what the Chinese do in the US but you don't get to hear about that as that is acceptable. To put it into scale 50% of all foreign investment into the US during the year of the collapse in 2007 was from the UK.
"Northern Rock, the first bank to go fucked, which we paid for, was American and screwed up the loan system by allowing people without jobs to take loans. We paid for their gambling! | |||
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"It is in truth an attempt to take us back to the Plantation. It is all there from the permanent tenant to the credit economy and its billing exercises which are nominal and not real in terms of what is wealth. The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system. In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society. We have a depression. Some areas have jobs but large parts of the country have none or very few. I think demanding cuts to benefits and pointing fingers at the poor during a Depression that was caused by criminality, fraud, theft and widespread mismanagement in the financial sector is a disgrace and a mark of stupidity for anyone working class to support. It isn't those who get 71 quid a week to live on who are to blame for the mess our country is in. People should reflect on that and focus on the real culprits. Our elites and their stupid ideas on economy and society. Bollocks " So tell us who did cause the collapse then. | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?
No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago.
Didn't realise that, I thought we still owed them. "Christmas 2006 was the final payment. It is one of the reasons I think the talk of us being in massive debt is a bit of a smokescreen. We had this huge debt that we carried and paid down for 60 years. During that time we had the "never had it so good" and "loadsamoney" eras. Debt, as a nation, is not new. How you present it to the people is ideology. | |||
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".................. Northern Rock, the first bank to go fucked, which we paid for, was American " Er, No. " and screwed up the loan system by allowing people without jobs to take loans. We paid for their gambling!" Er, Yes. | |||
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".................. Northern Rock, the first bank to go fucked, which we paid for, was American Er, No. and screwed up the loan system by allowing people without jobs to take loans. We paid for their gambling! Er, Yes." My mistake, it was the American subsidiary that started it and the British original that was stupid enough to follow suit... err yes??? | |||
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"america owes us massively Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?
No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago.
Didn't realise that, I thought we still owed them.
Christmas 2006 was the final payment. It is one of the reasons I think the talk of us being in massive debt is a bit of a smokescreen. We had this huge debt that we carried and paid down for 60 years. During that time we had the "never had it so good" and "loadsamoney" eras. Debt, as a nation, is not new. How you present it to the people is ideology."The cash debt has been settled but there's still an enormous influence, hence Iraq/ Afghanistan and, closer to home, Faslane. When Trident is renewed the decision, and much of the funding, will come from the Pentagon. | |||
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"It is in truth an attempt to take us back to the Plantation. It is all there from the permanent tenant to the credit economy and its billing exercises which are nominal and not real in terms of what is wealth. The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system. In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society. We have a depression. Some areas have jobs but large parts of the country have none or very few. I think demanding cuts to benefits and pointing fingers at the poor during a Depression that was caused by criminality, fraud, theft and widespread mismanagement in the financial sector is a disgrace and a mark of stupidity for anyone working class to support. It isn't those who get 71 quid a week to live on who are to blame for the mess our country is in. People should reflect on that and focus on the real culprits. Our elites and their stupid ideas on economy and society. Bollocks So tell us who did cause the collapse then." The inflows into property markets were the main reasons for the collapse. There was an asset inflation (think mortgage prices) and the income capacity of the economies involved could not sustain the prices. As the mortgage markets in the US started to fail it became clear that banks were selling sub prime (buy to rent, developments, etc) as A rated standard mortgages. Each bought of each other and global markets were created in derivatives based on the returns from the mortgages (assets). Then panic set in when they realized they didn't know which was which. That led to a huge asset inflation and the majority of the worlds major banks were caught out overextended. The whole problem however was driven by a lack of social provision in housing which has pushed up prices beyond the reach now of most Britons. Another factor was the belief in unregulated markets which led to the mortgage frauds and the fraud on the world interest rate (LIBOR). Another factor was people investing in housing and expecting the same capital returns as you do when you actually provide a good or service. The whole thing leads to where we are today and the whole premise of austerity alongside low interest rates (which hammers pensions and savers) is to ensure the 14% of all mortgages that are 1% rise in rates from default alive. US policy is similar but they tend to just buy the mortgage (asset) from the banks involved. None of this was caused by people on benefits. | |||
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