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Electric cars
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By *iger4uWoman
over a year ago
In my happy place |
"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype? nope not practical where I live.  "
I'm not ready for a milk float.
Plus a charging cable would have to go over the footpath as I don't have a drive.
Plus have to adapt driving technique for electric. |
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"We have a VW ID3 and have a VW Buzz van on order
How do they compare to petrol vehicles? Ever been worried about running out of charge?"
We have the limited edition ID3 Pro which has a 77kWh battery, we recently drove it from Torquay to Norwich without running out of charge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books |
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We've a Tesla model 3, which I love. Also have a cyber truck on order for the last few years, will it ever hit the Irish market? Or any market? Travel a good distance everyday. Have a homecharger/ free charger at work. We have solar pv + battery back up, so a no brainer for us. I moved from a high end 7 seater SUV to a Model 3 with great deliberation, but don't regret it one bit. Ask me again I'm 6 months time |
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"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books"
Anyone who believes that electric cars are being pushed in order to solely benefit the environment is a fool, the reality is that a major reason is to cut reliability on OPEC sourced oil.
It's only a matter of time before the Middle East oil producing nations will be fought over by the US, Russia, and China.
China in particular won't stand by for long watching Russia courting Middle East oil producers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books"
Its why they should be phasing it out by stopping production on new petrol, diesel cars rather than putting deadlines where you start getting penalised for driving a older cars. There will be big surge of drivable cars going on the scrapheap with all the LEZ coming all over the country. |
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We have to reduce our use of oil, before stopping completely. We thus need alternative fuel for cars, etc. Electric vehicles are our likely replacement in the short term. Manufacturers are working to this goal
And the world is in dire need to stop the powerful hold oil has had over us, as we are now too late to prevent much damage. Global heating is the problem to reduce. Electric cars are a part of the progress we must make. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I looked at vans for work but electric is not for me.
I would have to stop to charge it more often which takes some time and the vans I looked at don't carry half as much weight.. and no towing capacity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I looked at vans for work but electric is not for me.
I would have to stop to charge it more often which takes some time and the vans I looked at don't carry half as much weight.. and no towing capacity. "
It just dont work out when your in a trade even more so uf you have to carry a substantial amount of weight around as not all areas have super charge points
And if i needed to stop to charge i would feel a bit of a dick saying sorry im late i had to stop and top uo tge charge on my van |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Another thing how much does it take to put all these new cars on the road when we already have (reasonably) working cars on the road?
Were now being pushed into a world you cant change your own head light bulbs never mind fix a car
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I think they are great for a specific purpose which is cheap short distance commute or inner city work. I have a couple of cars including an electric van. I use the van the most and at 24p to charge it overnight it costs peanuts to run compared to diesel. |
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"Diesel is king
Electric cars will only last max 10 years before cell's are overcharged and swell
I work in energy trust me its a money maker "
I'm afraid you're talking garbage. My electric can is 2014 so it's nine years old now. Been completely reliable and still has full battery health. It also costs me next to nothing to run at around 24p to charge it overnight which does 80 miles. An eqv diesel would cost at least £16.20 on diesel alone. Then factor in increased servicing, increased tax charges, increased depreciation let alone localised air pollution to see that diesel are on their way out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Diesel is king
Electric cars will only last max 10 years before cell's are overcharged and swell
I work in energy trust me its a money maker "
Only a dodgy car salesman says trust me. Have you a load of deisels your trying to shift |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I looked at vans for work but electric is not for me.
I would have to stop to charge it more often which takes some time and the vans I looked at don't carry half as much weight.. and no towing capacity.
It just dont work out when your in a trade even more so uf you have to carry a substantial amount of weight around as not all areas have super charge points
And if i needed to stop to charge i would feel a bit of a dick saying sorry im late i had to stop and top uo tge charge on my van "
I thought feeling a dick, is a benefit  |
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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
Could of been driving them 60 years ago Nicolas Tesla converted a car to electric but the Elites wanted to sell oil to us for the next 100 years.. now we are running out of oil ohh global warming it's our fault go electric .. is it our fault we had an ice age ? We are consumers played by the elites |
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EVs are not environmentally friendly despite the narrative that they are. They do not have the range the makers claim and certainly in Ireland there is a fundamental lack of charging points outside if cities. Try driving to the west of Ireland in one. A 240 mile trip can take ten hours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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All the motor manufacturers are moving in that direction so pretty soon, we're not really going to have much choice.
Mind you, they all also seem to be focusing on SUVs too - which I can't stand |
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Bought my daughter one for her 17th birthday in December it's not great to be truthful the 220miles is a myth you can half that if you have the heater's, radio on etc unless you drive really slowly then 140 is probably realistic. Having the electric point fitted was another big cost as the cable had to run from the front door, throughout the house, under the garden and then into the garage.
The price of electric is going up and the price of fuel is coming down slightly so it's no cheaper to run.
This is not the future unless the price of electric comes down considerably. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion "
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now."
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
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"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books"
100% agree
Should they not be looking to retrofit cars with electric motors rather than drive the scrappage of millions of cars?
And to avoid contradiction, energy to power these cars should be 100% renewable
On the point of sources, the electric car battery minerals are the new blood diamonds. So unethical. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now.
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
"
So now the Ten year claim is Five years? |
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Was walking in the supermarket carpark and one was overtaking me from behind before I knew it was there.
Silent traffic what could possibly go wrong?
That's before we start on the infastructure problems. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now.
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
So now the Ten year claim is Five years?"
Average life is 5. That means some will last longer and some fewer
I didn’t mention the fact that cobalt d lithium mining is at best controversial, and spent lithium is useless.
10 years was the original claim because theoretically it’s possible and , more importantly, sounds good. Theory doesn’t take into account real life usage and practical problems.
The ultimate solution is Hydrogen, but currently it’s massively expensive to produce hydrogen, it’s energy intensive and the restrictions on where it can be made and stored are draconian.
New systems are promised including new chemical recipes for batteries but in reality they are at least 20 years away |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now.
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
So now the Ten year claim is Five years?
Average life is 5. That means some will last longer and some fewer
I didn’t mention the fact that cobalt d lithium mining is at best controversial, and spent lithium is useless.
10 years was the original claim because theoretically it’s possible and , more importantly, sounds good. Theory doesn’t take into account real life usage and practical problems.
The ultimate solution is Hydrogen, but currently it’s massively expensive to produce hydrogen, it’s energy intensive and the restrictions on where it can be made and stored are draconian.
New systems are promised including new chemical recipes for batteries but in reality they are at least 20 years away "
The average life of the batteries in a EV is only 5 years? I think technology has passed you by. The standard little 12V car battery maybe. This is the same an an ICE car. The main battery pack in a typical EV has at least an 8 year warranty - Lifespan a good 15 years or so. You can expect to lose around 1% of it's capacity every year. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now.
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
So now the Ten year claim is Five years?
Average life is 5. That means some will last longer and some fewer
I didn’t mention the fact that cobalt d lithium mining is at best controversial, and spent lithium is useless.
10 years was the original claim because theoretically it’s possible and , more importantly, sounds good. Theory doesn’t take into account real life usage and practical problems.
The ultimate solution is Hydrogen, but currently it’s massively expensive to produce hydrogen, it’s energy intensive and the restrictions on where it can be made and stored are draconian.
New systems are promised including new chemical recipes for batteries but in reality they are at least 20 years away
The average life of the batteries in a EV is only 5 years? I think technology has passed you by. The standard little 12V car battery maybe. This is the same an an ICE car. The main battery pack in a typical EV has at least an 8 year warranty - Lifespan a good 15 years or so. You can expect to lose around 1% of it's capacity every year. "
Lol. I’ve worked in the field for 35 years. I work with lithium batteries every day. I was part of a team introducing them to the UK market! You are simply wrong. Averages are exactly that averages. Some will be more some less. Warranty is a commercial decision to a strict set of parameters all of which are measured by the BCU. It’s easy to deny a warranty due to “misuse”
Carry on buying lithium batteries, please, it makes me a lot of money! I know whats going on, I actually did put motive power batteries in my post, which excludes starter batteries, totally different construction and use. Starter batter Are built to deliver a high crank power to start an engine, not for deep cycle use.
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Nope not for me
The range and charge time is poor compared to petrol or diesel cars, the queues at charging points on its own is enough to put me off compared to the ease of just pulling up to a pump and topping up and of you go again.
The argument for them being greener doesn't stack up either when you factor in the pollution caused in mining the Cobalt using sl ave labour and to manufacture the batteries and what about the short life of the batteries and the hassle of recycling the warn out batteries. Even if the batteries do last 10 years as they say that still makes the replacement of batteries uneconomical given the price( £10k-£15k at todays prices) of replacement so its scrap the car time, a decent petrol or diesel car will last twice the life of an electric car if looked after a maintained properly. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now.
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
So now the Ten year claim is Five years?
Average life is 5. That means some will last longer and some fewer
I didn’t mention the fact that cobalt d lithium mining is at best controversial, and spent lithium is useless.
10 years was the original claim because theoretically it’s possible and , more importantly, sounds good. Theory doesn’t take into account real life usage and practical problems.
The ultimate solution is Hydrogen, but currently it’s massively expensive to produce hydrogen, it’s energy intensive and the restrictions on where it can be made and stored are draconian.
New systems are promised including new chemical recipes for batteries but in reality they are at least 20 years away
The average life of the batteries in a EV is only 5 years? I think technology has passed you by. The standard little 12V car battery maybe. This is the same an an ICE car. The main battery pack in a typical EV has at least an 8 year warranty - Lifespan a good 15 years or so. You can expect to lose around 1% of it's capacity every year.
Lol. I’ve worked in the field for 35 years. I work with lithium batteries every day. I was part of a team introducing them to the UK market! You are simply wrong. Averages are exactly that averages. Some will be more some less. Warranty is a commercial decision to a strict set of parameters all of which are measured by the BCU. It’s easy to deny a warranty due to “misuse”
Carry on buying lithium batteries, please, it makes me a lot of money! I know whats going on, I actually did put motive power batteries in my post, which excludes starter batteries, totally different construction and use. Starter batter Are built to deliver a high crank power to start an engine, not for deep cycle use.
"
Please tell me what make of batteries you use & I will tell everyone to stay well away from them. Ohhh how i love the Fab forums  |
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"Imagine waking up and not having access to drive your car because the system has been shut down and restricted to limited times of the day you can use your car .. "
Imagine waking up and there's another tanker strike or fuel shortage or, at some point in the future, oil runs out. I have run an electric car for about 18 months now and have had no issues. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To compare electric car to combustion cars is unfare. Its a new technology in its infancy. With more manufacturers now focusing on this sector. Its only going to get better in terms of range, charging times and battery size.
In terms of cost the forecast is they will be producing and selling them on par with the combustion engine equivalent by 2027.
Remember when the combustion engine cars first came out, there were people claiming it would never replace the horse. |
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The reality.....The battery on the VW ID3 is guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles.
Two thirds to Three quarters of all new VW's are purchased on contract or leased, the life of the battery to the owner is if little importance. |
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"After ten years batteries are dead have to replace them at 10k 15k a pop now that's not very environmental friendly in my expert opinion
Battery technology has moved on so far that the "Ten years" claim is all but laughed at now.
No it isn’t. I have worked in Batteries for 35+ years.
There’s a huge problem building up with spent units the whole second life talk is just that, talk. Recycling of Lithium is a big problem, only 3 certified recycling companies in Europe. Non in UK they have to be sent to Belgium currently or , in Nissans case, Japan. Only about 65% can be recovered and most of that is the metal in construction lead acid batteries as used in milk floats are 99% recyclable. Average car motive battery life is 5 years.
I spent 8 years in Europe helping launch lithium specialist batteries and now do same in UK
So now the Ten year claim is Five years?
Average life is 5. That means some will last longer and some fewer
I didn’t mention the fact that cobalt d lithium mining is at best controversial, and spent lithium is useless.
10 years was the original claim because theoretically it’s possible and , more importantly, sounds good. Theory doesn’t take into account real life usage and practical problems.
The ultimate solution is Hydrogen, but currently it’s massively expensive to produce hydrogen, it’s energy intensive and the restrictions on where it can be made and stored are draconian.
New systems are promised including new chemical recipes for batteries but in reality they are at least 20 years away
The average life of the batteries in a EV is only 5 years? I think technology has passed you by. The standard little 12V car battery maybe. This is the same an an ICE car. The main battery pack in a typical EV has at least an 8 year warranty - Lifespan a good 15 years or so. You can expect to lose around 1% of it's capacity every year.
Lol. I’ve worked in the field for 35 years. I work with lithium batteries every day. I was part of a team introducing them to the UK market! You are simply wrong. Averages are exactly that averages. Some will be more some less. Warranty is a commercial decision to a strict set of parameters all of which are measured by the BCU. It’s easy to deny a warranty due to “misuse”
Carry on buying lithium batteries, please, it makes me a lot of money! I know whats going on, I actually did put motive power batteries in my post, which excludes starter batteries, totally different construction and use. Starter batter Are built to deliver a high crank power to start an engine, not for deep cycle use.
Please tell me what make of batteries you use & I will tell everyone to stay well away from them. Ohhh how i love the Fab forums "
I’m staggered by your refusal to accept facts from an actual specialist in the field, I presume you have read a sales brochure judging by your information. I was probably responsible for producing it lol, without giving my position away, I have been consulted by all the major players in the field. Please keep wearing your cloak of ignorance, you will make me money whatever battery you buy. Tells me what I need to know |
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"The reality.....The battery on the VW ID3 is guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles.
Two thirds to Three quarters of all new VW's are purchased on contract or leased, the life of the battery to the owner is if little importance."
What’s is guaranteed against?
Manufacturing defect. If it’s going to fail because of that it will happen in first 3/5 months.
What are the terms and conditions.
I would guarantee one for 20 years but I won’t let you use it.
But as I say. Genuinely, buy them! Please!
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82% of all new Hyundai's sold in the UK are done so on PCP contracts, they are amongst the best selling electric cars and SUV's in the UK.
Like the VW electric vehicles they have a 100k mile battery warranty, but with TEN years warranty if 100k miles isn't achieved.
Battery life is irrelevant as PCP contracts aren't 10 years long. |
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"82% of all new Hyundai's sold in the UK are done so on PCP contracts, they are amongst the best selling electric cars and SUV's in the UK.
Like the VW electric vehicles they have a 100k mile battery warranty, but with TEN years warranty if 100k miles isn't achieved.
Battery life is irrelevant as PCP contracts aren't 10 years long."
I agree about contract hire and operational leasing,
The wording of the warranty is very precise. Don’t expect that if it fails it’s automatically warranty unless the manufacturer makes a commercial decision.
I was was leasing a car for 3 years to do 100 miles a week and they were more affordable I would have one. |
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By *ribsaMan
over a year ago
A box at end of your bed |
If I want an electric car I will go out and buy a scalextric set.
I myself don't think electric is the way forward really don't think they are as good for the environment as they make out but that's just my opinion. |
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"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype?"
I'm looking at getting one but found out I need a power up grade as in an old property.
So would check how your going to charge one before getting one. |
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I really don't fancy one.
They need to sort out the charging situation, it sucks.
And multi story car parks weren't designed for their extra weight!!!
Thinking of getting a donkey and cart next. Seriously.  |
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"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype?
I'm looking at getting one but found out I need a power up grade as in an old property.
So would check how your going to charge one before getting one."
Yep you will need to generate 7 kw and it needs to come from the meter cost 2 grand from meter to garage including the charge point, plus we had to have earthing done and Fuses upgraded, unless you can generate solar and get a battery pack. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For all the folk talking about cobalt and labour conditions, are you planning on ditching your phones given that they use the exact same materials?"
Huge difference between a phone and a car .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The reality.....The battery on the VW ID3 is guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles.
Two thirds to Three quarters of all new VW's are purchased on contract or leased, the life of the battery to the owner is if little importance.
What’s is guaranteed against?
Manufacturing defect. If it’s going to fail because of that it will happen in first 3/5 months.
What are the terms and conditions.
I would guarantee one for 20 years but I won’t let you use it.
But as I say. Genuinely, buy them! Please!
"
Right on 
It sounds brilliant when a sales person is giving you the sell, but when it comes down to it, they will push the law to the limit and find anything to get out of covering the cost.
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By *onandCouple
over a year ago
Cheadle |
Probably one of the biggest cons this century…..London Electric buses are charged using a massive diesel generator…….I know someone who works there……. Sadiq Khan ??????????…… one has to assume that all other bus depots operating the same vehicles do the same…… no coincidence electric private flying upwards…..additionally one has to look how much it costs to get the battery co tents out of the ground….. oh yes using massive diesel vehicles ???????? |
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"To compare electric car to combustion cars is unfare. Its a new technology in its infancy. With more manufacturers now focusing on this sector. Its only going to get better in terms of range, charging times and battery size.
In terms of cost the forecast is they will be producing and selling them on par with the combustion engine equivalent by 2027.
Remember when the combustion engine cars first came out, there were people claiming it would never replace the horse."
Finally someone speaks some sense ....yesh give electric cars the same time then judge then on par...I doubt many people could even tell you how many miles they drive in a week |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books"
I just find it interesting that every always mentions cobalt…. But fall to mention there is way more used it production of mobile phones… p.s and there are some new electric cars that use lithium phosphate batteries rather than lithium ion… (spoiler.. they don’t use cobalt) |
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"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books
I just find it interesting that every always mentions cobalt…. But fall to mention there is way more used it production of mobile phones… p.s and there are some new electric cars that use lithium phosphate batteries rather than lithium ion… (spoiler.. they don’t use cobalt) "
LFP is actually an older technology mainly used by BYD , its energy density is good, but not exceptional, in fact most have moved away from it to NMC but the various types have different qualities.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If everyone walked, it would end one of the industrial complex’s hold on the human race, everyone would be fitter, the roads would be safer and guess what no trips to Milton Keynes, I’m fucking in |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Anyway back to the argument… I was on the original model 3 waiting list when Tesla said it would be around 30k … and then price shot up for various reasons (mainly weakness of the pound ect) and took it out of my price range…
They are still a little bit more expensive than I would like ( I’d probably get a model y type now) and I am glad the prices are finally coming down! The other thing is competition
I get at at the cheapest price points there are only 3 ev’s under 30k where there are 100 ice cars…. But for example the MG4, which is basically everyone’s car of the year is at is basic trim the same price as a new ford focus! (Just over 25k)
VW are bringing out the ID 2 which is basically an electric polo for 25 ish
Once there is a 2nd hand market ( I absolutely admit there isn’t really one at the moment) then I think things will take off |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The solution is not battery powered electric cars, they just shift the problems away from the more developed world and allow us to live in ignorance.
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
The charging, we simply cannot support it in the uk for everyone. The main ring is already overloaded and we use a non compatible earthing system so there are certain faults which are more dangerous than I am happy with. I’m also seeing a lot of cowboy charger installs by qualified installers that are just plain dangerous. Even scarier I stopped installing car chargers anymore as the cowboys are undercutting price so much by omitting vital safety devices that I cannot make a profit installing them. I’ve also seen installs that have been put in safely then made unsafe by other trades who don’t understand (and have no reason to) the chargers safety requirements.
A real solution would be an electric car, powered by a small generator fuelled by hydrogen or ethanol. It would require a super capacitor bank in order to perform adequately in lieu of a battery.
Guess what, they exist but you aren’t allowed one on the road as they won’t give eu type approval to it. Shame as that’s the technology that would dramatically help the planet.
I believe we have about 5 generations of battery electric vehicle to bear until a realistic solution is available. I would guess the reason is taxation.
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"
...
Guess what, they exist but you aren’t allowed one on the road as they won’t give eu type approval to it. Shame as that’s the technology that would dramatically help the planet.
...
"
Hang on. I thought there were going to be benefits from leaving the E.U.? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Probably one of the biggest cons this century…..London Electric buses are charged using a massive diesel generator…….I know someone who works there……. Sadiq Khan ??????????…… one has to assume that all other bus depots operating the same vehicles do the same…… no coincidence electric private flying upwards…..additionally one has to look how much it costs to get the battery co tents out of the ground….. oh yes using massive diesel vehicles ????????"
That’s a small bus depot, I know of one which has several massive gen sets to charge the buses. They kick out more pollution than the buses would too.
They had to be installed as the grid is unable to provide enough power to charge them all at once without everyone’s lights dimming locally.
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"If everyone walked, it would end one of the industrial complex’s hold on the human race, everyone would be fitter, the roads would be safer and guess what no trips to Milton Keynes, I’m fucking in "
.. and we would get soaking wet a lot of the time! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
...
Guess what, they exist but you aren’t allowed one on the road as they won’t give eu type approval to it. Shame as that’s the technology that would dramatically help the planet.
...
Hang on. I thought there were going to be benefits from leaving the E.U.? "
Good point, I have no idea
I wanted that car though, it’s from Norway and I forgot the name.
Ultimately I can buy and import one but I cannot drive it on the road because of nonsense. |
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"We have a VW ID3 and have a VW Buzz van on order
How do they compare to petrol vehicles? Ever been worried about running out of charge? if they run out of charge then you are stuck,,  they cannot be jump started/charged from another car  cannot be towed to a charging point they have to be put on a transporter and taken to a charging point  and as its not a breakdown then how much would you be charged to get you to nearest charging place maybe £100-£200
Why would I worry anymore about running out of charge than I would about running out of petrol?
"
I take the point, it’s not good to run out of fuel at all. The difference for most would be that the consequences of doing so are far more severe. You can’t just get a Jerry can and continue on your way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have a VW ID3 and have a VW Buzz van on order
How do they compare to petrol vehicles? Ever been worried about running out of charge? if they run out of charge then you are stuck,, they cannot be jump started/charged from another car cannot be towed to a charging point they have to be put on a transporter and taken to a charging point and as its not a breakdown then how much would you be charged to get you to nearest charging place maybe £100-£200
Why would I worry anymore about running out of charge than I would about running out of petrol?
"
Maybe because it's harder to find somewhere to charge it up. This would be my concern because with work I could be anywhere.
If its just a pleasure vehicle then I guess you can always plan the journey first. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone had a bad smash in one yet, admittedly there is no fuel to burn but I think mechanics have to take precautions against electric shocks because of higher voltage."
I seen a few burning on the side of the road.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
"
But it’s not a problem when you look at your iPhone or Samsung…..
I think that is called selective outrage…… |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone had a bad smash in one yet, admittedly there is no fuel to burn but I think mechanics have to take precautions against electric shocks because of higher voltage."
That’s quite true
The precautions however appear to have been written out by h and s people without consulting electrical engineers or firefighters as far as I can tell. IE I think the procedures to protect the mechanics life are a joke presently and hope they are reassessed.
Them batteries burn badly.
My local fire officer has told me all they can do is put the vehicle in a cage and fill it with foam if it is on fire as it reignites after being extinguished.
Not seen it for myself but it makes sense.
One plus point for the proper electric vehicles is the side impact protection. The way the battery is installed makes them a lot stronger. This isn’t the case when a car designed for an engine is offered in an electric version though. Teslas a great example. The side impact test is amazing compared to the safest of conventional cars such as large Volvos. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
But it’s not a problem when you look at your iPhone or Samsung…..
I think that is called selective outrage……"
Is it all smartphones? Surely there must be cobalt free version by now,must is making a cobalt free battery |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
But it’s not a problem when you look at your iPhone or Samsung…..
I think that is called selective outrage……
Is it all smartphones? Surely there must be cobalt free version by now,must is making a cobalt free battery "
Musk* |
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As I've said (several times) the vast majority of electric vehicles (around 86%) are sold on PCP contracts, none or relatively few of these are likely to be retained over a period of Three years contract.
Therefore the life of a battery is of little relevance to those driving them, with both VW and Hyundai ((The largest selling makes in the UK) giving Ten year warranties on batteries (100k miles) it matters not to drivers.
Regarding the charging argument, I can get a minimum of 260 miles in my 77kWh ID3 Pro, so it's never a problem for me......I know that won't sit well with electric car sceptics but it's a fact.
I'm not concerned.....why is anyone else concerned on my behalf? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
But it’s not a problem when you look at your iPhone or Samsung…..
I think that is called selective outrage……
Is it all smartphones? Surely there must be cobalt free version by now,must is making a cobalt free battery
Musk*"
I think it’s the lithium being referred to and is a very good point
I personally am very anti lithium batteries wherever they may be used. However I’m as bad as anyone else for using them.
There have been interesting alternatives over the years like water based batteries. However they offer a fraction of the energy storage of lithium tech.
If there is a phone with a less harmful battery I’d like to know.
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As the owner of a 5 year old Toyota Hybrid with another 5 years of warranty as long as Toyota service it I cant see any advantage to me in changing it and spending mega bucks on something that might or might not save me a few quid on fuel, whatever source, with yet more heavy depreciation and, if electric, considerable inconvenience and plug in anxiety when away from home - plus the cost of installing a plug in point at home.
So for me, thanks, but no thanks, as I see EVs as a political solution to the engineering problem of air pollution and I m far from convinced that I want to use my money to fund this experiment at the present time. |
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Charging infrastructure outside of big cities needs to improve and needs to be wheelchair accessible. Most charge points cannot be operated by someone with disabilities and there are not the support apps for electric charging like there are for conventional fuels. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
But it’s not a problem when you look at your iPhone or Samsung…..
I think that is called selective outrage……
Is it all smartphones? Surely there must be cobalt free version by now,must is making a cobalt free battery
Musk*
I think it’s the lithium being referred to and is a very good point
I personally am very anti lithium batteries wherever they may be used. However I’m as bad as anyone else for using them.
There have been interesting alternatives over the years like water based batteries. However they offer a fraction of the energy storage of lithium tech.
If there is a phone with a less harmful battery I’d like to know.
"
There must be phones that have lithium mined in Sweden,it's not mined by sl@ves like in the congo |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
There must be phones that have lithium mined in Sweden,it's not mined by sl@ves like in the congo"
Whilst forced labour is a big issue that’s separate to the lithiums issues. Not that it makes it any better.
Lithium is extracted in the US as well and it does just as much damage to the environment as anywhere else.
It comes out of the ground in solution, so dilute that it is useless to us. It has to sit in shallow reservoirs so the sunlight evaporates the water from the solution. When enough water is evaporated it gets refined to remove the last of the water and the impurities.
The land areas involved are huge due to the necessity for shallow pools (so the sunlight penetrates) and the pools are very toxic.
I don’t know much of the decommissioning procedure and shall research as it hadn’t crossed my mind previously. |
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"
...
It comes out of the ground in solution, so dilute that it is useless to us. It has to sit in shallow reservoirs so the sunlight evaporates the water from the solution. When enough water is evaporated it gets refined to remove the last of the water and the impurities.
The land areas involved are huge due to the necessity for shallow pools (so the sunlight penetrates) and the pools are very toxic.
"
Beware the lithium bearing mosquito... |
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"
The lithium in the batteries, look up where it comes from. Causes a lot of issues. More so than the Cobalt which is also an issue.
But it’s not a problem when you look at your iPhone or Samsung…..
I think that is called selective outrage……"
Just looked it up...evs account for 34% of cobalt usage...most is used in phones and computers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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34% is quite a lot for something that didn't exist not so long ago.
Its a tough one to balance with so much conflicting information too.
Polestar did a really good report, one of the least biased I've read. They showed that depending on the usage a combustion engine or an EV may be more environmentally friendly.
Polestar are really good actually. Anyone considering buying a Tesla please have a look look at Polestar. The difference in build quality is astounding (Teslas remind me of playmobile and Polestars remind me of tanks) |
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"We have to reduce our use of oil, before stopping completely. We thus need alternative fuel for cars, etc. Electric vehicles are our likely replacement in the short term. Manufacturers are working to this goal
And the world is in dire need to stop the powerful hold oil has had over us, as we are now too late to prevent much damage. Global heating is the problem to reduce. Electric cars are a part of the progress we must make. "
I read somewhere that it takes about 50l of oil to make a car, it is used in the manufacturing processes and to make the plastics, etc for the car. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not for me
Not found anything that can tow a large trailer or a caravan.
I'll wait until hydrogen becomes the fashionable way forward.
"
Same we rely on 4wd lifted vehicles. The only one that is remotely possible for us is the Hummer EV. So far the reviews are horrible.ill stick with my jeeps. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not for me
Not found anything that can tow a large trailer or a caravan.
I'll wait until hydrogen becomes the fashionable way forward.
"
You'll be waiting a long time then, Hydrogen is heading into different direction to vehicle power....we are stuck with Electric for at least a decade till mass production kicks in of synthetic zero emission fuels. |
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"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype?"
I think they are the loss of real cars... the whole reason I love cars and bikes is the sounds, the smell of the oil and petrol..
Along as i can get petrol I will have a petrol car. For starters I have a pre pay meter at home and not allowed to have a charging unit fitted.. plus they are not practical enough.
I do a lot of long drives that will be even longer if I'm having to stop to charge up the car. There isn't enough charging ports and not sure they are that much better for finances.
But the bottom line for me is I like a nice sounding car/ bike.... |
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"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype?
I think they are the loss of real cars... the whole reason I love cars and bikes is the sounds, the smell of the oil and petrol..
Along as i can get petrol I will have a petrol car. For starters I have a pre pay meter at home and not allowed to have a charging unit fitted.. plus they are not practical enough.
I do a lot of long drives that will be even longer if I'm having to stop to charge up the car. There isn't enough charging ports and not sure they are that much better for finances.
But the bottom line for me is I like a nice sounding car/ bike.... "
Well you'll have to get used to not having one in around two decades. Firstly the government are banning sale of new petrol or diesel cars in 7 years time in UK. Then they will ramp up the tax even more so on petrol / diesel and create more congestion ulez zones etc. The agenda is net zero by 2050 amd they say cars last an average ten years before they're scrapped. Therefore your car / bike you will have to use sparingly esp as the increase price of fuel. Let's put it this way say if petrol / diesel goes up to say £10 or more per litre would you be so keen to use it then.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't really want one yet but think we'll all have to have one soon!
My friend bought an electric car the other day....... He says it's shocking. He's absolutely buzzing
I'll get my coat....
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"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype?
I think they are the loss of real cars... the whole reason I love cars and bikes is the sounds, the smell of the oil and petrol..
Along as i can get petrol I will have a petrol car. For starters I have a pre pay meter at home and not allowed to have a charging unit fitted.. plus they are not practical enough.
I do a lot of long drives that will be even longer if I'm having to stop to charge up the car. There isn't enough charging ports and not sure they are that much better for finances.
But the bottom line for me is I like a nice sounding car/ bike....
Well you'll have to get used to not having one in around two decades. Firstly the government are banning sale of new petrol or diesel cars in 7 years time in UK. Then they will ramp up the tax even more so on petrol / diesel and create more congestion ulez zones etc. The agenda is net zero by 2050 amd they say cars last an average ten years before they're scrapped. Therefore your car / bike you will have to use sparingly esp as the increase price of fuel. Let's put it this way say if petrol / diesel goes up to say £10 or more per litre would you be so keen to use it then.. "
I don't see that actually happening... and I have 3 classic cars that I intend to keep on the road as long as possible. I don't see new petrol cars being banned either. And I'm sure there will be ways around the increasing fuel costs.
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The technology isn’t quite with it yet And secondhand is not an option as the batteries cost a fortune, a run around is fine but considering the cost if electricity the average cost of charging is around 7-10 a night , that’s pretty pricey… I’m all for it but not just yet , I meant for hydrogen  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If everyone switched to electric overnight, the infrastructure would not be able to supply the requisite amount of power.
My deisel does 500 plus miles on a full tank. No electric car can do that.
To supply enough power we need fusion power which was 10 years away in 1980. 40 years later it's still 10 years away. I'll never see it as a working technology.
The real answer is public transport. The love affair with the car needs to end.
Buses, trains etc need to be cheap and frequent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm a mechanic and absolutely hate them, especially tesla. They are killing off the motor trade "
I am collecting my new Toyota Hilux 2.8 auto next week, there is no electric car which can carry out the work required of the Hilux both on and off road. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Complete con. Basically let’s just outsource our environmental impact to 3rd world countries where they don’t have to worry about the people in toxic cobalt and lithium mines. Also the electric still primarily comes from fossil fuels and will for decades yet.
Not against the consumption of these things, just the hypocrisy and ‘out of sight, out of mind’ attitude.
And as this was written on an iPhone, people were likely harmed in the making of this post |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To compare electric car to combustion cars is unfare. Its a new technology in its infancy. With more manufacturers now focusing on this sector. Its only going to get better in terms of range, charging times and battery size.
In terms of cost the forecast is they will be producing and selling them on par with the combustion engine equivalent by 2027.
Remember when the combustion engine cars first came out, there were people claiming it would never replace the horse.
Finally someone speaks some sense ....yesh give electric cars the same time then judge then on par...I doubt many people could even tell you how many miles they drive in a week "
The summit in Scotland recently hadn't enough power points to recharge the electric cars so they recharged them using diesel generators,the ordinary person is being set up as regards Electric cars , if it's raining and the lights , wipers , heat etc is on the car battery goes down fairly fast, what happens then when the car battery dies in the middle of nowhere ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books
Anyone who believes that electric cars are being pushed in order to solely benefit the environment is a fool, the reality is that a major reason is to cut reliability on OPEC sourced oil.
It's only a matter of time before the Middle East oil producing nations will be fought over by the US, Russia, and China.
China in particular won't stand by for long watching Russia courting Middle East oil producers."
Quite right, there's gonna be some epic wars when the oil starts to run out, it'll make for great television, films etc.  |
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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago
taunton |
Extreme E have a massive 1 megawatt generating plant to produce the leccy they need for a few vehicles, runs on hydrogen. 0 emissions, no idea how much emissions were caused to build the plant or how the fook they are going to move it around the world, maybe they going to build a plant where ever they go, looks fairly monstrous tho |
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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago
taunton |
Lets hope we have the generating capacity in place when we all go leccy or we will have to stay home. When you see filling stations with cars waiting to fill up that takes a few minutes we are going to have to find a lot of space to put in charging points where you have to wait quite a while for a charge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lets hope we have the generating capacity in place when we all go leccy or we will have to stay home. When you see filling stations with cars waiting to fill up that takes a few minutes we are going to have to find a lot of space to put in charging points where you have to wait quite a while for a charge."
I think each car will carry its own small generator myself. It just makes no sense to take the car to a socket to charge a battery.
Hydrogens exciting, we just need the Swiss and the Americans on board as they have all the big hydro electric dams which can make hydrogen for free.
I was a bit disappointed when Honda shut down the hydrogen research centre in Swindon. Not allowed to comment on it specifically but they had some typically Japanese lateral thinking and I thought they would be the ones bringing hydrogen to the mainstream.
Did anyone ever see Fords 1950s electric car? The Nucleon. It was never built but would have been powered by a miniature nuclear reactor. I believe the Chinese made such a vehicle in the 90s but it crashed and the reactor was damaged so they binned it. Possibly not my cup of tea, even with the onboard power source.
I always find it interesting that Harrods used electric delivery vans from 1919 until the 70s as well. 60 mile range and 30mph I think they did. There is one on display in the National motor museum in Beaulieu. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If only every one knew how and where the cobalt was obtained from, in order to build an electric car and as for pollution, it causes 20 years of pollution just to build so if it causes more pollution then a petrol car just by building it it's not very efficient in my books
Anyone who believes that electric cars are being pushed in order to solely benefit the environment is a fool, the reality is that a major reason is to cut reliability on OPEC sourced oil.
It's only a matter of time before the Middle East oil producing nations will be fought over by the US, Russia, and China.
China in particular won't stand by for long watching Russia courting Middle East oil producers.
Quite right, there's gonna be some epic wars when the oil starts to run out, it'll make for great television, films etc. "
it will take awhile Biden approved the willow project. |
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"Cobalt is mined creating more emissions than than 150 cars for 1 year on our roads
It's mined by sl@ves in the Congo,in totally inhuman conditions"
This is a fact.. and have u ever seen one on fire? The first thing u should buy with an ec is a toffee hammer, cuz if it shorts and sets alight yr instantly locked in and they go up like a nuke melt down… just saying… good luck all that are getting sucked into ec theory … |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The first electric car was made in 1884 in England. Its taking a while for then to take off. "
You just set me off on a whole interesting reading journey
First ever Porsche was electric too! The first hybrid was also a Porsche. It seems electric was the preferred power plant until the model t ford came along.
I’m loving this thread! |
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"Cobalt is mined creating more emissions than than 150 cars for 1 year on our roads
It's mined by sl@ves in the Congo,in totally inhuman conditions
This is a fact.. and have u ever seen one on fire? The first thing u should buy with an ec is a toffee hammer, cuz if it shorts and sets alight yr instantly locked in and they go up like a nuke melt down… just saying… good luck all that are getting sucked into ec theory … "
Its an urban myth the evening catch fire more than ICE cars do, it's very much the other way around and I've never heard of a feature on any car that locks you in if it's burning. |
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"Cobalt is mined creating more emissions than than 150 cars for 1 year on our roads
It's mined by sl@ves in the Congo,in totally inhuman conditions
This is a fact.. and have u ever seen one on fire? The first thing u should buy with an ec is a toffee hammer, cuz if it shorts and sets alight yr instantly locked in and they go up like a nuke melt down… just saying… good luck all that are getting sucked into ec theory …
Its an urban myth the evening catch fire more than ICE cars do, it's very much the other way around and I've never heard of a feature on any car that locks you in if it's burning."
Evs not evening |
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"We have a VW ID3 and have a VW Buzz van on order
"
I saw two ID3s while I was out today and was particularly impressed by the fact that they appear to have steel wheels as standard.
I hate alloys with a passion. People will either understand why or they won't have a clue. Maybe they've never had an alloy wheel more than a few years old.
I doubt, however, that the Buzz will come in a utility spec which is all I want from any vehicle, regardless of what fuel it runs on.
A good example for keeping things simple is hidden in a recent post about what happens when a car catches fire. |
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"We have a VW ID3 and have a VW Buzz van on order
I saw two ID3s while I was out today and was particularly impressed by the fact that they appear to have steel wheels as standard.
I hate alloys with a passion. People will either understand why or they won't have a clue. Maybe they've never had an alloy wheel more than a few years old.
I doubt, however, that the Buzz will come in a utility spec which is all I want from any vehicle, regardless of what fuel it runs on.
A good example for keeping things simple is hidden in a recent post about what happens when a car catches fire."
You get out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
You get out"
Any car can lock you in, especially if it is damaged. A window breaker is essential car kit to me.
I’m over prepared though as I lived in the mountains for 15 years. I still keep space blankets, snacks and everything to survive if I breakdown in the wilderness. Probably won’t need it in Somerset but I cannot bring myself to remove it. |
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"We have a VW ID3 and have a VW Buzz van on order
I saw two ID3s while I was out today and was particularly impressed by the fact that they appear to have steel wheels as standard.
I hate alloys with a passion. People will either understand why or they won't have a clue. Maybe they've never had an alloy wheel more than a few years old.
I doubt, however, that the Buzz will come in a utility spec which is all I want from any vehicle, regardless of what fuel it runs on.
A good example for keeping things simple is hidden in a recent post about what happens when a car catches fire.
You get out"
Easier said than done if you are disabled |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What do you think about them? Want one? Got one? Are they the future or just marketing hype?"
The main issue for me is that it would be impossible for me to ever charge at home, so I'd have to rely on charging stations. That currently rules a pure EV out for me. |
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