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Fire Service Up the Creek Without a Paddle
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Reports that firemen have been sharing pictures of crash victims on WhatsApp and describing what underwear the victims are wearing. When we thought it was just the police. What's going on here guys. It's all over the news. Sack them. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
Nah they can keep their jobs. they are shitty people in terms of respect sure. But so long as they are perfectly capable to risk their own lives to save others, I'm willing to overlook shit like that so we have plenty of qualified firefighters at hand. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Reports that firemen have been sharing pictures of crash victims on WhatsApp and describing what underwear the victims are wearing. When we thought it was just the police. What's going on here guys. It's all over the news. Sack them."
Also let's be clear, this is pictures of dead bodies that they are sharing, not survivors |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I don’t see why they need to have personal mobile phones with them when they are on a shout, surely they should be left at the station. "
It does prompt a lot of questions doesn't it. Plus these are fatal RTCs, there are going to be lots of people from multiple agencies present and did they just ignore it? |
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That whole report last night was utterly depressing. Not least because the bloke they got on to apologise  refused to use the word 'problem '.
It's time to stop trying to put a spin on this stuff, own up, he seen to be taking action and show transparency. Also don't tell me that guy rose through the ranks and didn't know this stuff was going on. This lot must think we all came down with the last shower. |
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"I don’t see why they need to have personal mobile phones with them when they are on a shout, surely they should be left at the station.
It does prompt a lot of questions doesn't it. Plus these are fatal RTCs, there are going to be lots of people from multiple agencies present and did they just ignore it?"
I have heard this justified as 'gallows humour' and people doing difficult jobs 'letting off steam' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reports that firemen have been sharing pictures of crash victims on WhatsApp and describing what underwear the victims are wearing. When we thought it was just the police. What's going on here guys. It's all over the news. Sack them."
Its all up in flames |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I don’t see why they need to have personal mobile phones with them when they are on a shout, surely they should be left at the station.
It does prompt a lot of questions doesn't it. Plus these are fatal RTCs, there are going to be lots of people from multiple agencies present and did they just ignore it?
I have heard this justified as 'gallows humour' and people doing difficult jobs 'letting off steam'"
To be honest as someone that worked on that sector for over a decade and has seem things most on here could never imagine, there is always a form of gallows humour as a coping mechanism. But sharing pictures, commenting on underwear, not a chance, we all knew where the line was and that behaviour is well and truly over it |
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There's no justification nor excuses, not uncommon to allow crew to carry their personal phone if there's a domestic issue going on (very poorly relative etc) but to have done this if proven..
Gross misconduct, goodbye for those who took and shared said images..
Sickens me from the perspective of ex job and the vast majority of serving personnel will look at these actions as having no place in the service..
Cuntish isn't strong enough.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t see why they need to have personal mobile phones with them when they are on a shout, surely they should be left at the station.
It does prompt a lot of questions doesn't it. Plus these are fatal RTCs, there are going to be lots of people from multiple agencies present and did they just ignore it?"
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
At a FATAC (fatal collision), there would almost certainly be at least 3 agencies on scene...police, ambulance (possibly HEMS) and fire crews.
As well as highways agency, depending where the FATAC has occurred.
Someone taking photos would be very obvious.
And if at night, then a flash would be used.
I noted in the report that the firefighter who reported it hadnt actually seen the photos, due to not being in the WhatsApp group. But heard photos mentioned?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They'll still be shitty people either way, may as well let them save lives while being shitty people. "
Interesting response.
When police officers did this with photos of the two murdered sisters found in the park in London, they were sacked, charged and received custodial sentences.
I wonder what your thoughts would be if it was photos of one of your relatives being shared?? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I don’t see why they need to have personal mobile phones with them when they are on a shout, surely they should be left at the station.
It does prompt a lot of questions doesn't it. Plus these are fatal RTCs, there are going to be lots of people from multiple agencies present and did they just ignore it?
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
At a FATAC (fatal collision), there would almost certainly be at least 3 agencies on scene...police, ambulance (possibly HEMS) and fire crews.
As well as highways agency, depending where the FATAC has occurred.
Someone taking photos would be very obvious.
And if at night, then a flash would be used.
I noted in the report that the firefighter who reported it hadnt actually seen the photos, due to not being in the WhatsApp group. But heard photos mentioned?
"
There is akwYs the possibility that the photos are images from the scene taken as paty of the investigation or SOCO, and copies of those shared, which in a way is more worrying |
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As a member of the coastguard I'd never dream of sharing pics or even take pics of bodies I've recovered. That's someone's loved one  we're there to do a job, recover that person and bring them back to thier loved one's. If anyone in my team ever done that shit I'd expect them to be fired & honestly don't think I'd ever acknowledge them again, nothing ever excuses that shit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t see why they need to have personal mobile phones with them when they are on a shout, surely they should be left at the station.
It does prompt a lot of questions doesn't it. Plus these are fatal RTCs, there are going to be lots of people from multiple agencies present and did they just ignore it?
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
At a FATAC (fatal collision), there would almost certainly be at least 3 agencies on scene...police, ambulance (possibly HEMS) and fire crews.
As well as highways agency, depending where the FATAC has occurred.
Someone taking photos would be very obvious.
And if at night, then a flash would be used.
I noted in the report that the firefighter who reported it hadnt actually seen the photos, due to not being in the WhatsApp group. But heard photos mentioned?
There is akwYs the possibility that the photos are images from the scene taken as paty of the investigation or SOCO, and copies of those shared, which in a way is more worrying"
That is a concern. If a FATAC, it would be a Police collision investigator(s).
If a murder or suspicious circumstances, SOCO's, who are civilian staff working for the police.
And if a fire, the FSI's from the local Fire Service.
If their photos are being leaked or shared, that's a real worry |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can remember my mother telling me I had to wear clean underwear in case I got run over! "
Always wondered what the point of that was, cos a good chance you shit yourself as you see the car coming towards you, whilst not sure anyone is going to be wondering about the state of your underwear when there is a bloodied and broken body on the floor. |
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Can't find the story.
I imagine that if this has happened it's limited to a few individuals who I am certain will be dealt with in the appropriate fashion by the authorities.
This lynch mob mentality that is present on social media these days is pretty crass.
Find a story,give minimal details and the mob decide on guilt.
But I agree that if this is true then they should be sacked and prosecuted.
I'll wait for the full details before I commit to further speculation.
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I wonder how they would feel if one of these shared pics was a loved one.
Unbelievable shit from those who are there to save and protect you.
We all have pressured jobs so no excuses to behave in this manner
Vile |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Taking and sharing pics of dead women. Commenting or mocking their choice of lingerie. That implies they are exposing these young women post mortem. Which part of that is not sickening? These activities seem to be rife amongst the "emergency services " and each and every one needs sacking and prosecuting |
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"First the coppers, then the firemen. Next it will be Nurses. It’s all over, the abuse..."
Oh, I can tell you some stories about nursing and healthcare staff, from the perspective of an inpatient. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Can't find the story.
I imagine that if this has happened it's limited to a few individuals who I am certain will be dealt with in the appropriate fashion by the authorities.
This lynch mob mentality that is present on social media these days is pretty crass.
Find a story,give minimal details and the mob decide on guilt.
But I agree that if this is true then they should be sacked and prosecuted.
I'll wait for the full details before I commit to further speculation.
"
I found the story but only appears in one source, but dies appear tobhave quotes from a senior officer confirming that am investigation is taking place |
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"Can't find the story.
I imagine that if this has happened it's limited to a few individuals who I am certain will be dealt with in the appropriate fashion by the authorities.
This lynch mob mentality that is present on social media these days is pretty crass.
Find a story,give minimal details and the mob decide on guilt.
But I agree that if this is true then they should be sacked and prosecuted.
I'll wait for the full details before I commit to further speculation.
"
It was on the wireless yesterday evening.
It’s an accusation that the brigade are investigating so it’s wait and see what the outcome is. |
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"They'll still be shitty people either way, may as well let them save lives while being shitty people.
Interesting response.
When police officers did this with photos of the two murdered sisters found in the park in London, they were sacked, charged and received custodial sentences.
I wonder what your thoughts would be if it was photos of one of your relatives being shared??"
Yeah I'd probably be annoyed if it happened, but I'd be more annoyed if I (or friends/family) was a victim of a fire and we burnt to death because all of the emergency services, that are already broken/at breaking point were getting sacked.
There are shit people in every industry, we can't just sack everyone and pay for them to be on benefits. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"They'll still be shitty people either way, may as well let them save lives while being shitty people.
Interesting response.
When police officers did this with photos of the two murdered sisters found in the park in London, they were sacked, charged and received custodial sentences.
I wonder what your thoughts would be if it was photos of one of your relatives being shared??
Yeah I'd probably be annoyed if it happened, but I'd be more annoyed if I (or friends/family) was a victim of a fire and we burnt to death because all of the emergency services, that are already broken/at breaking point were getting sacked.
There are shit people in every industry, we can't just sack everyone and pay for them to be on benefits. "
We aren't sacking all of them, we're sacking the ones who's behaviour is well below what is acceptable.
Tory austerity is no reason to let people off the hook for misconduct |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They'll still be shitty people either way, may as well let them save lives while being shitty people.
Interesting response.
When police officers did this with photos of the two murdered sisters found in the park in London, they were sacked, charged and received custodial sentences.
I wonder what your thoughts would be if it was photos of one of your relatives being shared??
Yeah I'd probably be annoyed if it happened, but I'd be more annoyed if I (or friends/family) was a victim of a fire and we burnt to death because all of the emergency services, that are already broken/at breaking point were getting sacked.
There are shit people in every industry, we can't just sack everyone and pay for them to be on benefits.
We aren't sacking all of them, we're sacking the ones who's behaviour is well below what is acceptable.
Tory austerity is no reason to let people off the hook for misconduct "
Exactly. And we hold the emergency services to a higher standard than most, because of the trust we place in them.
Yes, a lot of them, like the military or undertakers, have a very dark and twisted gallows humour. But there are lines that you just dont cross. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way. "
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Amazing how this hits the media as the firebrigade us about to strike. And also happens to coincide with the heaviest day of strikes in a long while.
Almost like....I don't know. Just saying"
Agreed- one wonders! |
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"Amazing how this hits the media as the firebrigade us about to strike. And also happens to coincide with the heaviest day of strikes in a long while.
Almost like....I don't know. Just saying"
When would have been the right time? |
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"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way. "
It's not something that is commonplace, speaking to ex and still serving colleagues the feeling is totally unanimous if they found guilty of what's alleged then sack them..
There's no place in the service for such behaviour.. |
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"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way.
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
"
Any way that still enables them to provide a vital service that's already struggling to a crippled country, if that's restricted duties, restricted pay, named and shamed, whatever, they still save lives.
All well and good calling for this wrong behaviour to end in a sacked staff member until you're the one complaining about poor emergency service response |
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"How many of us slow down try to get a look at a accident rubber necking we are all guilty "
I deliberately don't look and even if I did I wouldn't take flaming pictures of dead people and send them to my friends  |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way.
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
Any way that still enables them to provide a vital service that's already struggling to a crippled country, if that's restricted duties, restricted pay, named and shamed, whatever, they still save lives.
All well and good calling for this wrong behaviour to end in a sacked staff member until you're the one complaining about poor emergency service response"
What happens if they get prosecuted and convicted? And imprisoned like the police officers did?
How would restricted duties save lives and be a punishment? Am employer can't fine an employee for a disciplinary offence.
I'm genuinely aghast at the suggestion that they should be let off. Does this mean doctors and nurses and teachers and train drivers should all be exempt from disciplinary procedures because their sectors are also struggling? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How many of us slow down try to get a look at a accident rubber necking we are all guilty
Most people don't. It's hardly like for like though is it? "
you'd really be surprised I was a recovery driver for a few years things I've seen people do I agree it's wrong. |
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"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way.
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
Any way that still enables them to provide a vital service that's already struggling to a crippled country, if that's restricted duties, restricted pay, named and shamed, whatever, they still save lives.
All well and good calling for this wrong behaviour to end in a sacked staff member until you're the one complaining about poor emergency service response
What happens if they get prosecuted and convicted? And imprisoned like the police officers did?
How would restricted duties save lives and be a punishment? Am employer can't fine an employee for a disciplinary offence.
I'm genuinely aghast at the suggestion that they should be let off. Does this mean doctors and nurses and teachers and train drivers should all be exempt from disciplinary procedures because their sectors are also struggling?"
I didn't say let them off, what does sacking them from an underpaid job they're on strike from actually achieve? They'll still be a convicted criminal, most likely serving you in tesco instead of providing a blue light service saving lives.
Absolutely punish them, doesn't have to mean taking their job in all circumstances
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way.
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
Any way that still enables them to provide a vital service that's already struggling to a crippled country, if that's restricted duties, restricted pay, named and shamed, whatever, they still save lives.
All well and good calling for this wrong behaviour to end in a sacked staff member until you're the one complaining about poor emergency service response
What happens if they get prosecuted and convicted? And imprisoned like the police officers did?
How would restricted duties save lives and be a punishment? Am employer can't fine an employee for a disciplinary offence.
I'm genuinely aghast at the suggestion that they should be let off. Does this mean doctors and nurses and teachers and train drivers should all be exempt from disciplinary procedures because their sectors are also struggling?
I didn't say let them off, what does sacking them from an underpaid job they're on strike from actually achieve? They'll still be a convicted criminal, most likely serving you in tesco instead of providing a blue light service saving lives.
Absolutely punish them, doesn't have to mean taking their job in all circumstances
"
You haven't said let them off, but you clearly aren't in favour of them being punished appropriately and can't suggest a plausible less severe punishment. Should they be prosecuted?
So what offence should they be sacked for? Where is your personal benchmark of gross misconduct
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"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way.
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
Any way that still enables them to provide a vital service that's already struggling to a crippled country, if that's restricted duties, restricted pay, named and shamed, whatever, they still save lives.
All well and good calling for this wrong behaviour to end in a sacked staff member until you're the one complaining about poor emergency service response
What happens if they get prosecuted and convicted? And imprisoned like the police officers did?
How would restricted duties save lives and be a punishment? Am employer can't fine an employee for a disciplinary offence.
I'm genuinely aghast at the suggestion that they should be let off. Does this mean doctors and nurses and teachers and train drivers should all be exempt from disciplinary procedures because their sectors are also struggling?
I didn't say let them off, what does sacking them from an underpaid job they're on strike from actually achieve? They'll still be a convicted criminal, most likely serving you in tesco instead of providing a blue light service saving lives.
Absolutely punish them, doesn't have to mean taking their job in all circumstances
"
Whatever you think and I'm prepared to base your responses on massive ignorance if any serving member of the UK fire service is found to have done what's alleged they will be sacked under gross misconduct and rightly so..
The service can not have any person with that on their record in place in any capacity whatever the economic times happen to be, there's a duty of care to the public ..
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You misunderstand, or perhaps I've not been clear, if the emergency services had waiting lists of people wanting to join, absolutely sack them.
The reality is, if you're unfortuate enough to require a blue light service at the moment, your chances of dying are much higher. Innocent lives should be the priority, not sacking people.
As for punishment, I'd probably go for something like a public apology, a personal apology to the families involved and some form of restriction on duties/benefits/pay for a period of time |
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"You'd only be sacking the ones that got caught, would still be happening.
They save lives at the end of the day, punish them another way.
How do you think we should punish men who while at work take pictures of a dead woman, share them with colleagues and comment on her underwear?
Any way that still enables them to provide a vital service that's already struggling to a crippled country, if that's restricted duties, restricted pay, named and shamed, whatever, they still save lives.
All well and good calling for this wrong behaviour to end in a sacked staff member until you're the one complaining about poor emergency service response
What happens if they get prosecuted and convicted? And imprisoned like the police officers did?
How would restricted duties save lives and be a punishment? Am employer can't fine an employee for a disciplinary offence.
I'm genuinely aghast at the suggestion that they should be let off. Does this mean doctors and nurses and teachers and train drivers should all be exempt from disciplinary procedures because their sectors are also struggling?
I didn't say let them off, what does sacking them from an underpaid job they're on strike from actually achieve? They'll still be a convicted criminal, most likely serving you in tesco instead of providing a blue light service saving lives.
Absolutely punish them, doesn't have to mean taking their job in all circumstances
Whatever you think and I'm prepared to base your responses on massive ignorance if any serving member of the UK fire service is found to have done what's alleged they will be sacked under gross misconduct and rightly so..
The service can not have any person with that on their record in place in any capacity whatever the economic times happen to be, there's a duty of care to the public ..
"
100% agree, there is a duty of care to the public... |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"You misunderstand, or perhaps I've not been clear, if the emergency services had waiting lists of people wanting to join, absolutely sack them.
The reality is, if you're unfortuate enough to require a blue light service at the moment, your chances of dying are much higher. Innocent lives should be the priority, not sacking people.
As for punishment, I'd probably go for something like a public apology, a personal apology to the families involved and some form of restriction on duties/benefits/pay for a period of time "
I think you've made it very clear, that despite two police officers being imprisoned for a similar offence, you think that they only deserve a slap on the wrist for sharing pictures of a dead woman and discussing her underwear.
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It’s obviously quite disgusting behaviour if true, and if so, they should certainly be sacked for gross misconduct at least, and prosecuted too if possible.
But the cynic in me thinks it strange these allegations (which is what they are at the moment not proven), are leaked the day after the FBU announces they will strike. It’s a very convenient means of turning public opinion, and therefore public support, against them. |
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By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
"First the coppers, then the firemen. Next it will be Nurses. It’s all over, the abuse..."
Aren't they usually murdering vulnerable people?
Gbat
(Please note: I am a supporter of nurses and know that the murderers are a tiny minority. Just like there are tiny minorities of bad people in "coppers and firemen.") |
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By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
"You misunderstand, or perhaps I've not been clear, if the emergency services had waiting lists of people wanting to join, absolutely sack them.
The reality is, if you're unfortuate enough to require a blue light service at the moment, your chances of dying are much higher. Innocent lives should be the priority, not sacking people.
As for punishment, I'd probably go for something like a public apology, a personal apology to the families involved and some form of restriction on duties/benefits/pay for a period of time "
If they are found guilty they need to be sacked and if appropriate, prosecuted.
Not only should they be got rid of, it sends a very clear message to all other firefighters that if caught, you go.
There is no place for people like this in public service. I know people who have worked hard and waited some time to get into blue light services. There is no shortage of applicants.
Gbat |
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