FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > There, they're, their
There, they're, their
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Actually I think a lot of this is caused by the English accent because I've found a lot of English people pronounce them so they sound the same. I am from South Wales valleys and we pronounce them quite differently so it's easy to know which word you need to use. THERE is pronounced "Th.. Hair". THEY'RE is pronounced " they rrr". And THIER is pronounced " they uh". Hard to spell them out to be honest. But theres a definate and easily heared sound difference to each of these words. Consequently I've personally never mixed them up. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do, and my effect and affect. Practice and practise.
Always struggle with stationary and stationery though, I can never remember which is which
Stationery has an ‘e’, for ‘envelope’ .  "
How have I never heard that before? I’ll never forget again  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I take your D and raid you an F. *true story
I’m still learning but some words don’t sink in. English is difficult for me. Good job I can talk and not take my spelling go to account when I speak face to face. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist "
No excuse for bad spelling or grammar in my book. How on earth you don't know where to put a full stop is beyound me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist "
I dont, can u learn me |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Lose & loose always annoy me when used in the wrong context
Changes a whole sentence.
Though we do have to appreciate some people are dyslexic which makes it harder...
Plus why is dyslexia so hard to spell?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
I know mine well, occasionally I get it wrong texting fast.
It shouldn’t matter but unfortunately it does - many people make sweeping judgments about a person based on the type of education / upbringing they had.
If you want to fuck or get recruited by one of those types , better comply to ‘there’ standards
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I know mine well, occasionally I get it wrong texting fast.
It shouldn’t matter but unfortunately it does - many people make sweeping judgments about a person based on the type of education / upbringing they had.
If you want to fuck or get recruited by one of those types , better comply to ‘there’ standards
"
I see what you did their |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Bob spells and speaks very well due to his education, my spelling is ok. What vexes me is people who hate text speak and use it as a filter for not meeting people. I mean do people really think about the standard of a persons English when they are getting their back door smashed in they have swallowed the 7th load in the last hour??  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I've recently started using they're for the first timein 47 years and it feels great. Still hasn't hot me a meet on here but I feel more mature and professional.
I reckon I'm using them correctly 80% of the time |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
If I can understand the general meaning of what someone is trying to say, I'm not going to get to hung up on what they could of said. It doesn't really effect me - its fairly simple to understand intention and what their trying to say. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If I can understand the general meaning of what someone is trying to say, I'm not going to get to hung up on what they could of said. It doesn't really effect me - its fairly simple to understand intention and what their trying to say. "
Subtle  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"If I can understand the general meaning of what someone is trying to say, I'm not going to get to hung up on what they could of said. It doesn't really effect me - its fairly simple to understand intention and what their trying to say. "
They're * |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
"If I can understand the general meaning of what someone is trying to say, I'm not going to get to hung up on what they could of said. It doesn't really effect me - its fairly simple to understand intention and what their trying to say.
Subtle "
 Grazie. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"I know mine well, occasionally I get it wrong texting fast.
It shouldn’t matter but unfortunately it does - many people make sweeping judgments about a person based on the type of education / upbringing they had.
If you want to fuck or get recruited by one of those types , better comply to ‘there’ standards
I see what you did their "
I think I saw what you did two  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I got CSE and GCSE grade 1 in English (exam result which probably mean nothing now as they don't ever come up when filling online forms in) and I'm a writer, and I still get thier, they're, your and you're wrong. MS Word does prompt you to correct them, but other writing tools (like online script sofrware) don't.
In my world that's what beta readers and editors are for.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People only say grammar and spelling don’t matter as an excuse because they can’t spell or use grammar correctly.
What about people who are dyslexic?
Don't think they would say it's an excuse  "
Also for many on here English isn't their first language. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do, and my effect and affect. Practice and practise.
Always struggle with stationary and stationery though, I can never remember which is which
Stationery has an ‘e’, for ‘envelope’ . "
Brilliant  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have seen on a restaurant chalkboard, all deserts £6 "
it’s because the land isn’t very good for arable farming or livestock. Still seems like a bargain though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As long as the meaning is clear it doesn't matter.
Problems occur when text is either ambiguous or completely incomprehensible. "
Surely, the different spelling of words is precisely to make it clear. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I guess it depends how pedantic you want to be, and if you want to judge people on there spelling and grammar. And potentially missing some beautiful interactions with people who could turn out to wonderful people |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As long as the meaning is clear it doesn't matter.
Problems occur when text is either ambiguous or completely incomprehensible.
Surely, the different spelling of words is precisely to make it clear. "
It is but I can usually work out that people mean 'too much' if they write 'to much' and ' I didn't go there' when they write ' I didn't go their' |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yes, it is important if you want to be understood properly.
Standards have certainly slipped.
But these are basics we're taught in primary school.
I see so many mixing 'his' and 'he's' around.
People using 'are' when actually they mean 'our'
The latest one is people dropping the 'h' from 'has'
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I believe I do, but I just know as sure as eggs are eggs, that when I enter a grammar police thread, that auto correct will stitch me up before I notice what I've sent!
Belittling people in conversations is a little unkind if you've understood the context of their input, but obviously, it's vital to get it right in documentation and publications. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes, it is important if you want to be understood properly.
Standards have certainly slipped.
But these are basics we're taught in primary school.
I see so many mixing 'his' and 'he's' around.
People using 'are' when actually they mean 'our'
The latest one is people dropping the 'h' from 'has'
"
So implicit meaning can't be gleaned from the content without basic correct grammar, I don't agree, if somebody mixes their words up, I still get the implict or explicit meaning to what there trying to convey to me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's a pity that school standards have slipped and autocorrect inserts errors that it's too easy to miss.
Could have and could of etc, are simple mistakes that many fall with.
I'm not troubled by them as we've all had different backgrounds and they're easy mistakes to make |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example."
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help. "
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anno17Man
over a year ago
Hertford |
"If I can understand the general meaning of what someone is trying to say, I'm not going to get to hung up on what they could of said. It doesn't really effect me - its fairly simple to understand intention and what their trying to say. "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It takes mental work for me to read grammatically incorrect English. It's tiring after awhile. Will I do it? Yes (I tutor ESL sometimes. That's a lot more mentally taxing in terms of reconstructing meaning)
But in my leisure time, the more reconstruction I have to do, the less I'm inclined to do it.
I got a band E4 in English E2 for my HSC. No, I'm not going to bother to translate  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help. "
We all need help with those earlier texts, but that’s my point - whether it’s using a modern text for comparison, or just mentally correcting someone’s grammar so that it makes sense, we need to measure against agreed rules.
If we just threw away rules, as I’ve heard some people propose, sooner or later we wo be able to work out what people mean.
I’m encountering this also from the perspective of someone who’s learning a foreign language- when I find a rule, and through practise I understand that rule, I hold it dearly to my heart as a treasured guide through a maze.
Rules seem less important when you already know a language, but I think that’s because we are more skilled in seeing where people break the rules. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
We all need help with those earlier texts, but that’s my point - whether it’s using a modern text for comparison, or just mentally correcting someone’s grammar so that it makes sense, we need to measure against agreed rules.
If we just threw away rules, as I’ve heard some people propose, sooner or later we wo be able to work out what people mean.
I’m encountering this also from the perspective of someone who’s learning a foreign language- when I find a rule, and through practise I understand that rule, I hold it dearly to my heart as a treasured guide through a maze.
Rules seem less important when you already know a language, but I think that’s because we are more skilled in seeing where people break the rules."
I view language as less a set of laws, and more a tree or a forest. Rules describe the forest, they don't shape it. Which explains all the rules that make no apparent sense when you learn a language, and all the exceptions that might drive one potty. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I try not to judge people for it. I think sometimes, accent has a lot to do with the spelling and mix up of words.
What is pretty simple for you to understand, might not be for others. My brother was constantly ripped apart for his grammar, he was labelled all sorts of nasty things. Yet nobody knew he had dyslexia and had no access to education when he was growing up.
As long as the person isn't just doing it to be lazy and I can understand them, it's not much of an issue. I do try to be clear and proper in what I say, but it's not easy for me to know what is grammatically correct as I didn't have much of an education and had no help or support throughout my younger years. And as an adult, I don't see the need to make it a priority because I'm happy enough with how I communicate.
If someone wants to judge me, or judge others, that's not a problem. But I think it says a lot about your character. I completely understand why in professional settings it is important, but people who pick apart others over grammar are not people I have any interest in. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film."
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist
No excuse for bad spelling or grammar in my book. How on earth you don't know where to put a full stop is beyound me. "
Beyound hahaha |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Actually I think a lot of this is caused by the English accent because I've found a lot of English people pronounce them so they sound the same. I am from South Wales valleys and we pronounce them quite differently so it's easy to know which word you need to use. THERE is pronounced "Th.. Hair". THEY'RE is pronounced " they rrr". And THIER is pronounced " they uh". Hard to spell them out to be honest. But theres a definate and easily heared sound difference to each of these words. Consequently I've personally never mixed them up. "
Yeah, spoken language may have definitely contributed to it. Like people typing should of, could of, would of etc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist "
Hear hear |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I do think there can be a lack of correct grammar but who cares on here. It doesn't have any effect on my judgement on who I chat to or meet.
I do have a pet hate though for text speak such as "wuu2', that to me is laziness. Bad grammar and spelling could be down to many a different reason,some beyond the person's control. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film.
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication."
I completely agree that pedantry should be avoided. Also, as some have stated on here, that it’s not something to be judgemental about - hey, a serial killer could write the most immaculate English |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
English is not Mrs Salty's first language, so I would have hoped to become more tolerant of others' poor grammar and language. Instead I'm even more judgemental, as her level is better than a lot of people educated here.
I'm willing to excuse those with dyslexia but I think claiming dyslexia has become a shorthand for many; figuratively and literally. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film.
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication."
Sadly, we're often judged, erroneously, on our written word.
I left school before I took any exams; which makes me uneducated to some people.
I have neither an "O" nor an "A" Level to my name
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
"English is not Mrs Salty's first language, so I would have hoped to become more tolerant of others' poor grammar and language. Instead I'm even more judgemental, as her level is better than a lot of people educated here.
I'm willing to excuse those with dyslexia but I think claiming dyslexia has become a shorthand for many; figuratively and literally. "
Some people struggle with syntax; grammar and clauses.
Some know a dangling modifier when they see one. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I do, and my effect and affect. Practice and practise.
Always struggle with stationary and stationery though, I can never remember which is which"
Stationery = contains 'e' for envelope. Ergo it's the sort of thing you buy in WH Smith.
Stationary = not moving |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I do, and my effect and affect. Practice and practise.
Always struggle with stationary and stationery though, I can never remember which is which
Stationery = contains 'e' for envelope. Ergo it's the sort of thing you buy in WH Smith.
Stationary = not moving "
An envelope is stationery (e) and a parked car is stationary (a) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist "
It’s a huge turn off for me when they don’t know the difference and can’t use the correct word in messages. Intelligence is instinctively attractive to me.
Hades
x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I do, and my effect and affect. Practice and practise.
Always struggle with stationary and stationery though, I can never remember which is which
Stationery = contains 'e' for envelope. Ergo it's the sort of thing you buy in WH Smith.
Stationary = not moving
An envelope is stationery (e) and a parked car is stationary (a)"
Should be easy to remember for us Black Country types, as a parked car Ay gooin nowhere |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I'll confess to getting very irritated by the modern habit of writing "should/could of" instead of "should/could have". It's nothing to do with dyslexia and everything to do with transcribing poor pronunciation. What is said verbally, often, is "should've/could've" which are just contractions of "should have/could have". |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'll confess to getting very irritated by the modern habit of writing "should/could of" instead of "should/could have". It's nothing to do with dyslexia and everything to do with transcribing poor pronunciation. What is said verbally, often, is "should've/could've" which are just contractions of "should have/could have". "
Absolutely this… me too!
Hades |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'll confess to getting very irritated by the modern habit of writing "should/could of" instead of "should/could have". It's nothing to do with dyslexia and everything to do with transcribing poor pronunciation. What is said verbally, often, is "should've/could've" which are just contractions of "should have/could have". "
Yeah, that gets me too.
I sort of have a threshold, after which I can't be bothered anymore.
That threshold is higher a) when it's my job, b) with a known case of dyslexia, c) when I'm volunteering, or d) where I know English is not this person's first language. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist "
I do and I have to correct the person when they don’t |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film.
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication.
Sadly, we're often judged, erroneously, on our written word.
I left school before I took any exams; which makes me uneducated to some people.
I have neither an "O" nor an "A" Level to my name
"
One response to a question that I think says a lot about people is "they didn't teach me that at school". As if knowledge can't be acquired anywhere else
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'll confess to getting very irritated by the modern habit of writing "should/could of" instead of "should/could have". It's nothing to do with dyslexia and everything to do with transcribing poor pronunciation. What is said verbally, often, is "should've/could've" which are just contractions of "should have/could have".
Yeah, that gets me too.
I sort of have a threshold, after which I can't be bothered anymore.
That threshold is higher a) when it's my job, b) with a known case of dyslexia, c) when I'm volunteering, or d) where I know English is not this person's first language."
I've never once seen our international students write "could of". Not even those with the weakest English. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film.
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication.
Sadly, we're often judged, erroneously, on our written word.
I left school before I took any exams; which makes me uneducated to some people.
I have neither an "O" nor an "A" Level to my name
One response to a question that I think says a lot about people is "they didn't teach me that at school". As if knowledge can't be acquired anywhere else
"
Since the Gove reforms of about 6-7yrs ago, they've taught incredibly complex grammar in primary schools, to the point where it sucks out any enjoyment from studying English. Why is it that this country has to go from the sublime to the ridiculous? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film.
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication.
Sadly, we're often judged, erroneously, on our written word.
I left school before I took any exams; which makes me uneducated to some people.
I have neither an "O" nor an "A" Level to my name
One response to a question that I think says a lot about people is "they didn't teach me that at school". As if knowledge can't be acquired anywhere else
Since the Gove reforms of about 6-7yrs ago, they've taught incredibly complex grammar in primary schools, to the point where it sucks out any enjoyment from studying English. Why is it that this country has to go from the sublime to the ridiculous?"
Because of threads like this |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s very important to get this sort of thing correct.
Language is a sort of game where we know the rules and interpret what we see by applying those rules. Yes, we can usually see what people mean, even when they write the wrong thing, but that’s only because we measure it against the rule we know them to be breaking.
Slightly arguing against myself though, it’s interesting that so much of our language was built up before the rules of grammar and spelling were codified - Shakespeare and the King James Bible for example.
I need a guide to read Chaucer. I had to have the text of Canterbury Tales in modern English to read alongside the original. I also need help with Shakespeare and the King James Bible. I can in all but the most extreme cases work out what all but the worst modern examples of bad grammar and spelling mean without help.
I started reading A Pilgrim's Progress in its original text and gave up. It's hard work.
If I want some Shakespeare I watch a Kenneth Brannagh film.
I'm reading a biography of Elizabeth the first published in the mid 1950s, even the way that's written is less easy for me to understand than more modern ones I've read.
My opinion is that language changes and as it's main purpose is to make ourselves understood by other people we need to change with it. Rules are necessary but being too pedantic about their application means we might miss out on some interesting communication.
Sadly, we're often judged, erroneously, on our written word.
I left school before I took any exams; which makes me uneducated to some people.
I have neither an "O" nor an "A" Level to my name
One response to a question that I think says a lot about people is "they didn't teach me that at school". As if knowledge can't be acquired anywhere else
Since the Gove reforms of about 6-7yrs ago, they've taught incredibly complex grammar in primary schools, to the point where it sucks out any enjoyment from studying English. Why is it that this country has to go from the sublime to the ridiculous?
Because of threads like this "
Is Gove reading this?!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'll confess to getting very irritated by the modern habit of writing "should/could of" instead of "should/could have". It's nothing to do with dyslexia and everything to do with transcribing poor pronunciation. What is said verbally, often, is "should've/could've" which are just contractions of "should have/could have".
Yeah, that gets me too.
I sort of have a threshold, after which I can't be bothered anymore.
That threshold is higher a) when it's my job, b) with a known case of dyslexia, c) when I'm volunteering, or d) where I know English is not this person's first language.
I've never once seen our international students write "could of". Not even those with the weakest English. "
Yeah, that's definitely true. They know better. Carelessness from native speakers bothers me more. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People only say grammar and spelling don’t matter as an excuse because they can’t spell or use grammar correctly.
What about people who are dyslexic?
Don't think they would say it's an excuse "
As a dyslexic person, I always do my upper most to have correct grammar and spelling.
Spellchecker is very useful. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago
Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters |
There, they're and their I'm fine with.
Same with to, too and two.
What I always seem to struggle with is effect and affect. No matter how many times I look up the rules...  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Who knows their there's from their they'res from their theirs?
In todays world, does spelling and grammar even matter?
Ps... I got a D in GCSE English so I'm under no illusion that I'm the bestest spellerer and grammarist "
So I'll give my opinion...
I think it does matter. I do my best, but I know my best may be worse or better than someone else's best!
One of the worst places I find bad spelling and grammar is Facebook classic car forums. I have to read some of the comments a couple times over to understand what the hell they're on about.
But... some of these dudes rebuild engines and restore cars from a pile of parts. I certainly can't do that. For me, that's a different kind of intelligence. We're all good at different things and should try to respect that |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"...Since the Gove reforms of about 6-7yrs ago, they've taught incredibly complex grammar in primary schools...
Is Gove reading this?! "
•
No, he's currently busy with the 'other' thread - Hat, Scarf & Gove Fab Photo Challenge.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People only say grammar and spelling don’t matter as an excuse because they can’t spell or use grammar correctly. "
I disagree , just mentioned this on one of the other threads. I genuinely believe its because we have evolved into a much more visual and verbal word than looking at things written down.
When speaking it doesn’t matter which version of their they’re or there you used - the context around the words are how you determine meaning. As we use more verbal communication and less written communication… people have switched to those skills of more often looking at the context to understand the meaning and therefore what is written is less important than if the correct meaning can be deciphered from it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As long as the meaning is clear it doesn't matter.
Problems occur when text is either ambiguous or completely incomprehensible.
Surely, the different spelling of words is precisely to make it clear. "
Nope if that was the case we wouldn’t have examples like read being used for both past and present tense.
The reality is different spellings exist for no other reason than someone set it up that way forever ago and thats what we continue to teach going forward. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As long as the meaning is clear it doesn't matter.
Problems occur when text is either ambiguous or completely incomprehensible.
Surely, the different spelling of words is precisely to make it clear.
Nope if that was the case we wouldn’t have examples like read being used for both past and present tense.
The reality is different spellings exist for no other reason than someone set it up that way forever ago and thats what we continue to teach going forward. "
There's a word in ancient Greek with four very distinct forms (like unless you know it, you'd have no idea it was the same damn word). They seem to have come from different cultural traditions.
Another example of this is, pick any language - the verb "to be" probably doesn't follow verb rules of the rest of that language (even if the verb rules have multiple complex and contradictory forms - looking at you, ancient Greek)
I think of grammatical rules as the coincidences which stuck.
You do still need to know them, give or take, but it's entirely arbitrary. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As long as the meaning is clear it doesn't matter.
Problems occur when text is either ambiguous or completely incomprehensible.
Surely, the different spelling of words is precisely to make it clear.
Nope if that was the case we wouldn’t have examples like read being used for both past and present tense.
The reality is different spellings exist for no other reason than someone set it up that way forever ago and thats what we continue to teach going forward.
There's a word in ancient Greek with four very distinct forms (like unless you know it, you'd have no idea it was the same damn word). They seem to have come from different cultural traditions.
Another example of this is, pick any language - the verb "to be" probably doesn't follow verb rules of the rest of that language (even if the verb rules have multiple complex and contradictory forms - looking at you, ancient Greek)
I think of grammatical rules as the coincidences which stuck.
You do still need to know them, give or take, but it's entirely arbitrary. "
Have a look for stage door johnny on either the clock or the instant weight apps
He makes great comedy out of the english language and all of its inconsistencies |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As long as the meaning is clear it doesn't matter.
Problems occur when text is either ambiguous or completely incomprehensible.
Surely, the different spelling of words is precisely to make it clear.
Nope if that was the case we wouldn’t have examples like read being used for both past and present tense.
The reality is different spellings exist for no other reason than someone set it up that way forever ago and thats what we continue to teach going forward.
There's a word in ancient Greek with four very distinct forms (like unless you know it, you'd have no idea it was the same damn word). They seem to have come from different cultural traditions.
Another example of this is, pick any language - the verb "to be" probably doesn't follow verb rules of the rest of that language (even if the verb rules have multiple complex and contradictory forms - looking at you, ancient Greek)
I think of grammatical rules as the coincidences which stuck.
You do still need to know them, give or take, but it's entirely arbitrary.
Have a look for stage door johnny on either the clock or the instant weight apps
He makes great comedy out of the english language and all of its inconsistencies "
My ESL students ask me why (inconsistent rule) exists.
I tell them it's because English is a terrible language. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
