FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Teachers are voting to go on strike.
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"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes. 30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed " True but if a strike didn't affect other people, it wouldn't have much of an effect. LvM | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. " A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. " And they are striking over pay?!! | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. And they are striking over pay?!!" Not sure, the OP didn't add that bit !!! | |||
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"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes. 30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed " Yes. I also feel sorry for the joe, they also interviewed parents and they arent happy about it, as they have to take time of work, yes, it is sad times too for the nhs as their patients have to wait for their operations. | |||
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"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes. 30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed. .. So True! As we think we are struggling now!. Waiting and see what the economy looks like after everyone gets there pay rise and businesses go bust, the money has to come from somewhere!. So everything will go up then! " | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. There are people in the private sector who are taken out by suppliers just so they buy Thier products or use their services, these costs are passed on the the general public, not taken from the company's profits. Many of them will be verbally and physically abused on a daily basis without any consequences or backup from their managers or local council who they work for. These newly qualified teacher will also be paying back their student loans, roughly about 4% from their gross salary then 9.7% pension. Let's face it old age pensions in this county have been erroded for many years. Let's remember that the salaries teachers are paid go back into the economy and help to pay for the private sector through the circular flow of money." 100% You can often (not always the case) tell the difference between a public and private employee based upon their empathy and compassion for these things, especially when it comes to being valued by the extra work and effort that goes in without the feeling of being valued for what you do. | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. " Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training? It evens itself out I think more than fairly | |||
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"By the looks of it, it's only the odd day here and there for certain regions so I'm sure it won't make a huge difference to their education, and a lot of homework and lessons can be sent through online anyway. " Thats totally right, but what about the thousands of parents who then either have to take a day off work or organise child care for that day. Its those pepole who are effected too | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. " Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006. Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have... 19k | |||
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"Thats totally right, but what about the thousands of parents who then either have to take a day off work or organise child care for that day. Its those pepole who are effected too" So teachers (or anyone who strikes) has to put YOUR needs before their own, despite the fact you show none of that same empathy for their own position by taking that very stance because it inconveniences you. | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training? It evens itself out I think more than fairly " This is a common argument by people who have no clue what teachers go through and how much extra time they work during supposed "off hours" Teachers generally have significantly higher hour requirements and stress levels than many higher paid professions. The public holiday allowance does not come close to accounting for the low salary. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006. Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have... 19k " It's £28k according to Google. I'm an LSA on £14k, Agency | |||
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"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !" But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school | |||
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"Thousands of schools in england and wales are set to close in february after teachers voted to strike, union leaders have announced, as nurses also prepare for further stoppages. What do you think of the strikes? As so many schools will be closed, how will the pupils get their education during this time?" I think one out all out, give the kids a break from learning its too much for their little brains | |||
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"Thats totally right, but what about the thousands of parents who then either have to take a day off work or organise child care for that day. Its those pepole who are effected too So teachers (or anyone who strikes) has to put YOUR needs before their own, despite the fact you show none of that same empathy for their own position by taking that very stance because it inconveniences you." If you don't like the job you do or unsatisfied with the conditions then don't do it. Do you think just because you go on strike that the next day you go to work everything will of changed for the better ? So no I don't have sympathy or empathy for pepole who go on strike. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006. Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have... 19k It's £28k according to Google. I'm an LSA on £14k, Agency" The inflation bit was a joke mate 14k is ridiculous! Sorry but Jesus -I'm sorry dude. Kudos to you but don't know how you do it. | |||
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"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday ! But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school " Without a fine for a holiday ? | |||
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"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday ! But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school Without a fine for a holiday ?" Is that not only if it's excessive? | |||
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"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes. 30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed True but if a strike didn't affect other people, it wouldn't have much of an effect. LvM" This is the whole point ^^ | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. There are people in the private sector who are taken out by suppliers just so they buy Thier products or use their services, these costs are passed on the the general public, not taken from the company's profits. Many of them will be verbally and physically abused on a daily basis without any consequences or backup from their managers or local council who they work for. These newly qualified teacher will also be paying back their student loans, roughly about 4% from their gross salary then 9.7% pension. Let's face it old age pensions in this county have been erroded for many years. Let's remember that the salaries teachers are paid go back into the economy and help to pay for the private sector through the circular flow of money." EXACTLY THIS!! We know several teachers and TAs and this is the reality of it. One worked out that they were working for not much more than minimum wage, once their 'out of hours' work was taken into account. If teaching staff were to 'quiet quit', it would cost the government millions in extra staffing to pick up the shortfall in work. The abuse and constant shadow looming over them of being suspended, sacked or imprisoned for the vaguest suggestion of misconduct. If I went to a council library and trashed the place whilst filming the librarians reaction for tiktok, I would fully expect to be arrested. The library would likely receive compensation from me and the staff would be offered counselling. Do it in a school as a school kid? Suspend the kid for a couple of days and give the teacher a bollocking before sending them back to teaching. There was a really low turnout for the vote to strike. Not because they didn't want to strike. It's because they knew strike action was needed but they couldn't bring themselves to advocate abandoning their kids. | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary." It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary. It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids" Amen | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary. It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids" This is so true. I'd add into that early years educators, child minders and carers in general. The most vulnerable people in society and we value the people who look after them so little. Don't get me started on sports people's wages in comparison | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary." I've never earned anywhere near that, thats huge money to me. Longest I've spent in a job was 25+ years | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary." In this area rent on a small house is around £1000 a month, the same house to buy would be around £300k. £28k wouldn't touch the sides after utilities | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it." You can't possibly know how someone's personal finances are structured based on the flashy products they buy. Plenty of people in the States live in mobile homes (trailer parks) with insanely expensive cars/trucks parked out front. | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it." What better ways would yiu suggest? | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it." Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups. | |||
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"Personally, I don't agree with strikes. Most of us are struggling at the moment and ultimately who pays? we do, higher tax, less money to go around. Private sector and small businesses can not go on strike, and they don't get the pay rises postal workers etc are demanding. It all gets passed on down the line to the general public, making everyone's lives even harder." The private sector can go on strike, but thise in the private sector are rarely in a union. If staff are unhappy they need to unionise and mobilise | |||
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"Personally, I don't agree with strikes. Most of us are struggling at the moment and ultimately who pays? we do, higher tax, less money to go around. Private sector and small businesses can not go on strike, and they don't get the pay rises postal workers etc are demanding. It all gets passed on down the line to the general public, making everyone's lives even harder." | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary. It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids This is so true. I'd add into that early years educators, child minders and carers in general. The most vulnerable people in society and we value the people who look after them so little. Don't get me started on sports people's wages in comparison " Same with carers for the elderly, be that community care or care/nursing homes. They staff are paid a pittance. We don't care about the vulnerable and we don't value those who care for them. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work." If they don't have a regular teaching post they go down the supply teacher route. | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary. It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids This is so true. I'd add into that early years educators, child minders and carers in general. The most vulnerable people in society and we value the people who look after them so little. Don't get me started on sports people's wages in comparison Same with carers for the elderly, be that community care or care/nursing homes. They staff are paid a pittance. We don't care about the vulnerable and we don't value those who care for them. " ^^ Kicking a ball around a pitch for a couple of hours is definitely more important | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it." So how would you suggest they deal with it? | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary. In this area rent on a small house is around £1000 a month, the same house to buy would be around £300k. £28k wouldn't touch the sides after utilities " Lucky to find a one bedroomed flat for much less than a grand around here, and they sell for £200k. Teacher's starting salaries have barely moved in 12 years but property prices have. I saw a post on Facebook yesterday and a FY2 doctor (second year junior) was earning barely more than their colleague had earned I 2004 at the same level of experience yet costs have rocketed. It's ridiculous. And back to my earlier post, what we are seeing now is the inevitable culmination of 12 years of austerity | |||
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"Try Googling teacher salary scales and you’ll see what they’re paid now. Over ten years ago I worked in finance in a school and the deputy heads (plural) were all on over £75k….. a decade ago. After reading the salary scale can someone please tell me where else one can get paid that and 13 weeks holiday….. and don’t try and tell me they do lesson prep during this time….. been there and experienced what they actually do for the money!!! " What do they do for the money? | |||
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" Despite the mentioned £28k starting salary 20% leave in the first year. " So you pay all those uni fees over 4 years I'm guessing, start doing the job you've trained for only to walk away? Where did you get those figures from as I'd love to go and have a look into this myself | |||
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"The strikes are four days maximum, it's not going to have a huge impact on the kids education. Lockdown proved that virtual learning was possible so for secondary students especially, they'll cope. As much as it's a pain and a bit of a work around, I support the strikes. Our school system needs an overhaul, there needs to be more funding for resources, more help for senco department's, TAs etc. One of my children's schools is always asking the parents for money. Every week there is a "fundraising effort" of some kind that costs us money. We do it so the kids don't miss out but it shouldn't be needed to that degree. Pxx" So why fines for parents taking their child out of school? Surely it won't have a huge impact? | |||
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"The strikes are four days maximum, it's not going to have a huge impact on the kids education. Lockdown proved that virtual learning was possible so for secondary students especially, they'll cope. As much as it's a pain and a bit of a work around, I support the strikes. Our school system needs an overhaul, there needs to be more funding for resources, more help for senco department's, TAs etc. One of my children's schools is always asking the parents for money. Every week there is a "fundraising effort" of some kind that costs us money. We do it so the kids don't miss out but it shouldn't be needed to that degree. Pxx" But the teachers that run the online classes are striking, so that is not a possibility. They will miss four days of school. At gcse level I'd say that's pretty important | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training? It evens itself out I think more than fairly " Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday. Working 20-25 hours extra during term time equates to 800-1000 extra hours or an extra 22-25 weeks work per year. I don't know anyone who would do that amount of additional unpaid work per year and I'm sure you wouldn't. This doesn't include the work done during holidays, which you implied they shouldn't be paid for. | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training? It evens itself out I think more than fairly Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday. Working 20-25 hours extra during term time equates to 800-1000 extra hours or an extra 22-25 weeks work per year. I don't know anyone who would do that amount of additional unpaid work per year and I'm sure you wouldn't. This doesn't include the work done during holidays, which you implied they shouldn't be paid for. " Many of them go on holiday during holiday times | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training? It evens itself out I think more than fairly Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday. Working 20-25 hours extra during term time equates to 800-1000 extra hours or an extra 22-25 weeks work per year. I don't know anyone who would do that amount of additional unpaid work per year and I'm sure you wouldn't. This doesn't include the work done during holidays, which you implied they shouldn't be paid for. Many of them go on holiday during holiday times " You can have a holiday too when they go on strike. | |||
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"The strikes are four days maximum, it's not going to have a huge impact on the kids education. Lockdown proved that virtual learning was possible so for secondary students especially, they'll cope. As much as it's a pain and a bit of a work around, I support the strikes. Our school system needs an overhaul, there needs to be more funding for resources, more help for senco department's, TAs etc. One of my children's schools is always asking the parents for money. Every week there is a "fundraising effort" of some kind that costs us money. We do it so the kids don't miss out but it shouldn't be needed to that degree. Pxx So why fines for parents taking their child out of school? Surely it won't have a huge impact? " I didn't say I agreed with the fines. I don't personally but it's a different conversation. The fines are also issued by the council not the schools. Pxx | |||
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"The strikes are four days maximum, it's not going to have a huge impact on the kids education. Lockdown proved that virtual learning was possible so for secondary students especially, they'll cope. As much as it's a pain and a bit of a work around, I support the strikes. Our school system needs an overhaul, there needs to be more funding for resources, more help for senco department's, TAs etc. One of my children's schools is always asking the parents for money. Every week there is a "fundraising effort" of some kind that costs us money. We do it so the kids don't miss out but it shouldn't be needed to that degree. Pxx But the teachers that run the online classes are striking, so that is not a possibility. They will miss four days of school. At gcse level I'd say that's pretty important " I get that, I meant more that work can be set online for children to do. As for GCSE students, maybe it can be used as study/revision time instead of taking that out of their lesson time. I don't know if study leave is still a thing, it was when I was that age but that was a long time ago. Not all teachers will strike either so hopefully the ones with upcoming exams will be given priority with the teachers that are still working. I don't know how it'll work, I'm not a teacher and all schools will organise things differently depending on staffing numbers etc but there are ways around it. Pxx | |||
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"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week. Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training? It evens itself out I think more than fairly Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday. Working 20-25 hours extra during term time equates to 800-1000 extra hours or an extra 22-25 weeks work per year. I don't know anyone who would do that amount of additional unpaid work per year and I'm sure you wouldn't. This doesn't include the work done during holidays, which you implied they shouldn't be paid for. Many of them go on holiday during holiday times You can have a holiday too when they go on strike. " Ahhh gee thanks | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it. Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups." Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term. Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them). For example, back in the 60's, Ford employed a number of women at Dagenham to produce interiors. They went on strike for equal pay - something I'm sure we'd all agree they thoroughly deserved - and they got it. Ford later outsourced interior production and all those women lost their jobs | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work." You don't just go straight from undergraduate study into teaching. You have to do additional postgraduate training for at least one year to acquire a PGCE or PGDE and then another year (once qualified) to achieve your QTS. The strikes are not wholly about the amount teachers earn. It's about the fact that the last pay offer of 5% was not funded by the Govt and so schools had to pay it out of existing budgets. At the same time, fuel bills went through the roof. Schools cannot afford this and are cutting things all over the place to compensate. They are cutting subjects like art and music (which are deemed non essential), getting rid of valuable support staff (which increases already high workloads for teachers even more) and stopping enrichment activities like trips and visits, which impacts the quality of the educational experience for students. The starting salary is pretty decent BUT the workload for an NQT is absolutely bonkers and so they work a LOT more than the contracted hours, which means actually, their hourly rate is probably very low indeed. Workload overall is getting ridiculous for all teachers which is another facet of the decision to strike. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work. You don't just go straight from undergraduate study into teaching. You have to do additional postgraduate training for at least one year to acquire a PGCE or PGDE and then another year (once qualified) to achieve your QTS. The strikes are not wholly about the amount teachers earn. It's about the fact that the last pay offer of 5% was not funded by the Govt and so schools had to pay it out of existing budgets. At the same time, fuel bills went through the roof. Schools cannot afford this and are cutting things all over the place to compensate. They are cutting subjects like art and music (which are deemed non essential), getting rid of valuable support staff (which increases already high workloads for teachers even more) and stopping enrichment activities like trips and visits, which impacts the quality of the educational experience for students. The starting salary is pretty decent BUT the workload for an NQT is absolutely bonkers and so they work a LOT more than the contracted hours, which means actually, their hourly rate is probably very low indeed. Workload overall is getting ridiculous for all teachers which is another facet of the decision to strike. " Did you not see the post below I made the one below you quoted me on? I made out it was like 4 or 5 years at uni. Your the first person to educate myself and others on the exact reason they are striking and Thank You as I didn't know what they ment by 'working conditions' but I do now you have pointed it out. Education needs more money, extra investment. That shouldn't go on wages but I should free money up for wages | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work. You don't just go straight from undergraduate study into teaching. You have to do additional postgraduate training for at least one year to acquire a PGCE or PGDE and then another year (once qualified) to achieve your QTS. The strikes are not wholly about the amount teachers earn. It's about the fact that the last pay offer of 5% was not funded by the Govt and so schools had to pay it out of existing budgets. At the same time, fuel bills went through the roof. Schools cannot afford this and are cutting things all over the place to compensate. They are cutting subjects like art and music (which are deemed non essential), getting rid of valuable support staff (which increases already high workloads for teachers even more) and stopping enrichment activities like trips and visits, which impacts the quality of the educational experience for students. The starting salary is pretty decent BUT the workload for an NQT is absolutely bonkers and so they work a LOT more than the contracted hours, which means actually, their hourly rate is probably very low indeed. Workload overall is getting ridiculous for all teachers which is another facet of the decision to strike. Did you not see the post below I made the one below you quoted me on? I made out it was like 4 or 5 years at uni. Your the first person to educate myself and others on the exact reason they are striking and Thank You as I didn't know what they ment by 'working conditions' but I do now you have pointed it out. Education needs more money, extra investment. That shouldn't go on wages but I should free money up for wages " Sorry I hadn't scrolled further down before responding to you, no. Glad to have been of help about the conditions bit. It is all explained on the NEU website as to the reasons for striking but conditions and workload are the leading reason to be honest. | |||
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"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes. 30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed " People would not strike if they were better paid and treated. A close friend who was a highly specialised nurse gave up her post for a job lecturing at a lower rate because she was so overworked and undervalued | |||
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"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !" It's not the teachers that fine you, it's the government. Also, teachers worked all through covid. Even when schools were supposedly shut they weren't. | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it. Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups. Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term. Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them). For example, back in the 60's, Ford employed a number of women at Dagenham to produce interiors. They went on strike for equal pay - something I'm sure we'd all agree they thoroughly deserved - and they got it. Ford later outsourced interior production and all those women lost their jobs" So.. because some strikes/protests don't work out for those involved (nevermind that there are plenty of examples with more positive outcomes), the answer is lay down and take what you're given and be grateful about it no matter what out of fear of potential employer and/or government retaliation. No one should ever band together for better conditions and make a public showing of it. Got it. | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it. Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups. Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term. Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them). For example, back in the 60's, Ford employed a number of women at Dagenham to produce interiors. They went on strike for equal pay - something I'm sure we'd all agree they thoroughly deserved - and they got it. Ford later outsourced interior production and all those women lost their jobs So.. because some strikes/protests don't work out for those involved (nevermind that there are plenty of examples with more positive outcomes), the answer is lay down and take what you're given and be grateful about it no matter what out of fear of potential employer and/or government retaliation. No one should ever band together for better conditions and make a public showing of it. Got it. " They didn't say that, you did. What they said I think is along the lines of, strike if you like but accept the consequences | |||
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"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary." Could not agree more, it's really sad. What's sadder is that instead of fighting for everyone to get paid more they're told to not complain because they earn more than someone else. Awful | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it. Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups. Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term. Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them). For example, back in the 60's, Ford employed a number of women at Dagenham to produce interiors. They went on strike for equal pay - something I'm sure we'd all agree they thoroughly deserved - and they got it. Ford later outsourced interior production and all those women lost their jobs So.. because some strikes/protests don't work out for those involved (nevermind that there are plenty of examples with more positive outcomes), the answer is lay down and take what you're given and be grateful about it no matter what out of fear of potential employer and/or government retaliation. No one should ever band together for better conditions and make a public showing of it. Got it. They didn't say that, you did. What they said I think is along the lines of, strike if you like but accept the consequences " I obviously extrapolated a bit based on making an argument against strike action using a few cheery picked examples I'd be surprised if anyone didn't accept the consequences of their actions Striking is a very serious business and people generally don't take it lightly, hence the voting turnout rate among other things. | |||
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"What's sadder is that instead of fighting for everyone to get paid more they're told to not complain because they earn more than someone else." This is something I've never understood nor ever will. | |||
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"What's sadder is that instead of fighting for everyone to get paid more they're told to not complain because they earn more than someone else. This is something I've never understood nor ever will." Yeah I'm not sure "be thankful you're earning nowhere nearvenough to buy or rent a home, you could be earning minimum wage in a supermarket, claiming universal credit (because supermarkets need huge profits and can't afford to pay more) and still need to use a foodbank" is a logic I'll ever understand. Weirdly usually comes from those earning more than the strikers in the public sector | |||
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"A lot of lorry drivers aren’t on 28k a year " Train as a teacher then, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. | |||
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"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline. I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it. Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups. Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term. Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them). For example, back in the 60's, Ford employed a number of women at Dagenham to produce interiors. They went on strike for equal pay - something I'm sure we'd all agree they thoroughly deserved - and they got it. Ford later outsourced interior production and all those women lost their jobs So.. because some strikes/protests don't work out for those involved (nevermind that there are plenty of examples with more positive outcomes), the answer is lay down and take what you're given and be grateful about it no matter what out of fear of potential employer and/or government retaliation. No one should ever band together for better conditions and make a public showing of it. Got it. They didn't say that, you did. What they said I think is along the lines of, strike if you like but accept the consequences " Exactly. About 30 years ago, there was a bus drivers dispute in a not-so-far-away-from-me city where I used to work. The management made it clear that any driver that went on strike would find themselves unemployed. Essentially, they weren't denying their employees the right to withdraw their labour, just that if they did, it would be permanent. Let's look at the whole employer / employee relationship from a slightly different perspective. When you go for that job interview, you hope to impress your interviewers enough that they offer you the job. When given the job, you sign a contract of employment - agreeing to the level of pay, hours, working conditions and so on. In return, you do the job you have been hired to do. NOBODY is guaranteed a pay rise in line with inflation. I worked in the private sector - before going self-employed. At interview for my last employer, given the industry, I was informed that salary reviews were conducted twice a year. In 9 years, I got a total of 2 pay rises. Despite working hard and taking on more responsibilitities and even managing a department. Note the language. Salary REVIEW. My housing costs were going up, my commute was getting more expensive, so effectively, each year, I suffered a pay cut - in real terms. They lost a lot of good people because instead of rewarding hard work, we got fobbed off with excuses. It was 15 years ago when I left | |||
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"A lot of lorry drivers aren’t on 28k a year Train as a teacher then, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. " no thanks I retire in 11 month and looking forward to chilling | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay!" No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government" I mean, we're on our third PM since the last general election so that's questionable... | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government I mean, we're on our third PM since the last general election so that's questionable..." How? We do not, and have never directly elected Prime Ministers in this country | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government" I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening. | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening. " Really? So nothing to do with the fact that the RMT have been striking, and the CMU and ASLEF and the Nurses Union - and that some of those union leaders have been calling for a general strike? | |||
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"Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts. Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years . Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons. " Have you read through the thread? | |||
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"Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts. Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years . Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons. Have you read through the thread?" Why would I read the complete thread ? I was making a statement | |||
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"Can we fine schools if they arent open for our kids? Like they do for term time holidays. Surely, works both ways" | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government I mean, we're on our third PM since the last general election so that's questionable... How? We do not, and have never directly elected Prime Ministers in this country" No we don't but the election manifesto that Johnson presented has been ignored by not one but 2 subsequent Prime Ministers. And Sunak is talking about repairing the damage previous government's have done as if he wasn't part of it and wasn't integral to thst damage. If the multiple Prime Ministers have shown us anything it is that PM being forced out by their own party should force a general election | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening. Really? So nothing to do with the fact that the RMT have been striking, and the CMU and ASLEF and the Nurses Union - and that some of those union leaders have been calling for a general strike? " There are legitimate reasons for all these industries to strike. Obviously the state of the economy (which the Govt have responsibility to keep on an even keel), impacts all sectors. | |||
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"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed. Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service." Sadly, there are a lot of parents who are unable or unwilling to do what is required. Schools have a statutory duty to safeguard their students and for young people under 18, teachers are considered as being "in loco parentis". Essentially, we have responsibilities that we cannot shirk. | |||
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"Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts. Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years . Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons. Have you read through the thread? Why would I read the complete thread ? I was making a statement " You havent even read my question | |||
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"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed. Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service. Sadly, there are a lot of parents who are unable or unwilling to do what is required. Schools have a statutory duty to safeguard their students and for young people under 18, teachers are considered as being "in loco parentis". Essentially, we have responsibilities that we cannot shirk. " But going on strike would be shirking responsibilities! | |||
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"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed. Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service. Sadly, there are a lot of parents who are unable or unwilling to do what is required. Schools have a statutory duty to safeguard their students and for young people under 18, teachers are considered as being "in loco parentis". Essentially, we have responsibilities that we cannot shirk. But going on strike would be shirking responsibilities!" Striking is a last resort. It is not entered into lightly. | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. " I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job. | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job." I haven't said I'm not happy with my job. I'm not involved in these strikes as I don't work in a school. | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. " It was those numerous people that castigated you, not people here. Another poster has added 'before you slag teachers off', I've not seen that here either. What I've seen is loads are leaving in they're droves, of the new ones, 20% quit within the first year and the ones that still in work spend a lot of their spare time doing work and not getting paid for it - amongst other arguments. I'm an LSA, I get paid pro rata, no sick pay, I want more money, who dosent. I've got a great view of the situation like I have of this thread. The question asked was along the lines of should teachers strike? Not are they wankers? | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job. I haven't said I'm not happy with my job. I'm not involved in these strikes as I don't work in a school. " But you said you were a teacher?? | |||
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"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed. Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service." This is a good point and probably one of the main reasons for a strike. As well as an educator the expectation now is that a teacher is a counsellor, social worker. Mental health nurse, an entertainer, a data manager as well as be able to differentiate for a range of abilities as very little SEN provision. Classes are bigger. Available staff are fewer. Don't forget too that the graduate on 28K will be paying back their student loan inclusive of their teacher training for many years to come as they have to pay to become a teacher. Pay is the last reason to strike. | |||
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"Teachers! Don't strike. Just leave your job for a different one. Problem solved. All the parents can then deal with that fall out of that. Oh as impractical as it is, I would love to witness that within a vacuum. How parents think they could deal with all this if their babysitters... Sorry I mean teachers just simply didn't exist. Entitlement and under appreciation colliding. " How many parents during Lockdown were at their wits end trying to explain very basic things to their kids and openly saying so on SM, then in the same post saying they couldn't get through it without alcohol! | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job." And many do which is part of the problem | |||
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"Teachers! Don't strike. Just leave your job for a different one. Problem solved. All the parents can then deal with that fall out of that. Oh as impractical as it is, I would love to witness that within a vacuum. How parents think they could deal with all this if their babysitters... Sorry I mean teachers just simply didn't exist. Entitlement and under appreciation colliding. " Children are in school for 38 weeks out of the 52. That's 3 months approx of being home, plus weekends. | |||
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"Everyone has the right to strike and so they should but people seem to forget that it's the private sector that pay for a strong public sector. With teachers, nurses, train drivers et al going on strike for more money, where do they think this cash is coming from?" Police and the forces are not allowed to strike. But totally agree with the rest. | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job. I haven't said I'm not happy with my job. I'm not involved in these strikes as I don't work in a school. But you said you were a teacher??" Teachers don't all work in schools FE colleges Private training providers Apprenticeship providers Universities Pupil Referral Units Young Offenders Institutes Prisons Private schools/colleges (under different union rules) | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully." I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it. | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully. I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it." I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00. | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully. I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it. I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00. " I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job. | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully. I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it. I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00. I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job." It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble. | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully. I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it. I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00. I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job. It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble. " Are you not teaching today? | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully. I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it. I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00. I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job. It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble. Are you not teaching today?" I am currently in bed in severe pain caused by my disability. I am therefore off work today. The green arrow will take you to a thread with more information if you really need to know. | |||
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"Ultimately like all the public sector, 12 years of austerity has reached its inevitable culmination now that the cost of living crisis. This is a problem entirely of the tories own making. The money is there when Truss tanked the economy they found billions. They could tax the oil and gas companies they could put a windfall tax on the elite, they could revoke private schools charitable status which would raise billions, they could recoup the money they paid out to their mates for non existent PPE, they could clamp down on tax evasion, they could acknowledge the catastrophic impact Brexit has had on the economy and try and resolve that The options are there. We don't all have to pay for it at all." This - they won’t do any of the most obvious things as it would piss off their mates and former schools/universities and they’d lose a ton of support money it’s that simple. | |||
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"I support the teachers, nurses and railworkers 100%. They all provide an invaluable service that improves my life and that of those around me, and they deserve a basic level of income that reflects that. Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss. Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country." Nadhim Zahawe should be facing a criminal investigation for his tax affairs | |||
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"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed. If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy. I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job. It was those numerous people that castigated you, not people here. Another poster has added 'before you slag teachers off', I've not seen that here either. What I've seen is loads are leaving in they're droves, of the new ones, 20% quit within the first year and the ones that still in work spend a lot of their spare time doing work and not getting paid for it - amongst other arguments. I'm an LSA, I get paid pro rata, no sick pay, I want more money, who dosent. I've got a great view of the situation like I have of this thread. The question asked was along the lines of should teachers strike? Not are they wankers? " I didn't say you castigated me, I was making a general comment. Others were slating teachers. There was a comment about the car someone drives then one about not working during holidays. Granted not all teachers work during the holidays but they will during the week. Being paid term-time is wrong and it's a way of councils reducing their wage bills. | |||
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"I support the teachers, nurses and railworkers 100%. They all provide an invaluable service that improves my life and that of those around me, and they deserve a basic level of income that reflects that. Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss. Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country." We all deserve a basic level of income? Not everyone can strike though? X | |||
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"Nadhim Zahawe should be facing a criminal investigation for his tax affairs " At the very least! | |||
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"I support the teachers, nurses and railworkers 100%. They all provide an invaluable service that improves my life and that of those around me, and they deserve a basic level of income that reflects that. Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss. Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country. We all deserve a basic level of income? Not everyone can strike though? X" I agree - we all do. And if you're a member of a union who hasnt had a proper pay rise in over a decade, there's nothing stopping you and yoyr colleagues raising the possibility of strike action with them. | |||
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"If only there was an obvious solution that would put an immediate end to the strikes! But that would involve valuing teachers, so instead the government will play the victim and rely on dividing the country to secure some pity." There is. Teachers and nurses aren't badly paid however they do provide an essential service so shouldn't really have to pay for training or parking at work. If the state paid their student loans for every year they work full time in the state system that would go a long way towards easing the pain. They could also be given free parking or a free bus pass (whichever method of travel is appropriate). Their jobs should also be de-stessed by improving other areas. So teachers teach and nurses nurse. Other disciplines such as social care should pull their weight. | |||
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"If only there was an obvious solution that would put an immediate end to the strikes! But that would involve valuing teachers, so instead the government will play the victim and rely on dividing the country to secure some pity. There is. Teachers and nurses aren't badly paid however they do provide an essential service so shouldn't really have to pay for training or parking at work. If the state paid their student loans for every year they work full time in the state system that would go a long way towards easing the pain. They could also be given free parking or a free bus pass (whichever method of travel is appropriate). Their jobs should also be de-stessed by improving other areas. So teachers teach and nurses nurse. Other disciplines such as social care should pull their weight." It's not that social care should pull its weight, more that like so many sectors it's underfunded, underpaid and under resouced. Issues compounded that care work is a sector that has lost a lot of workers thanks to brexit | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work." crap. The beginning wage for a fully qualified teacher is £35,650 the salary rises with experience and position. Top salary for a head teacher is £90,000 salary range is £35,650 - £90,000 Their pension on top of this is very lucrative as 25% of salary also goes into pension on top of earnings. plus sick leave etc This was discussed on Radio Scotland Kay Adams at 9am on 16th January | |||
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"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved. If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully. I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too. Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am. It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one. Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it. I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00. I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job. It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble. Are you not teaching today? I am currently in bed in severe pain caused by my disability. I am therefore off work today. The green arrow will take you to a thread with more information if you really need to know. " Sorry, wasnt prying and dont need to know more. Lucky teachers get good sick pay though. Not everyone does. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work. crap. The beginning wage for a fully qualified teacher is £35,650 the salary rises with experience and position. Top salary for a head teacher is £90,000 salary range is £35,650 - £90,000 Their pension on top of this is very lucrative as 25% of salary also goes into pension on top of earnings. plus sick leave etc This was discussed on Radio Scotland Kay Adams at 9am on 16th January " The starting salary is NOT £35k. M1 is £28,000. Top of the main payscale is £38,810. Bottom range for Headteachers is £47,735 - £63,508. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work. crap. The beginning wage for a fully qualified teacher is £35,650 the salary rises with experience and position. Top salary for a head teacher is £90,000 salary range is £35,650 - £90,000 Their pension on top of this is very lucrative as 25% of salary also goes into pension on top of earnings. plus sick leave etc This was discussed on Radio Scotland Kay Adams at 9am on 16th January The starting salary is NOT £35k. M1 is £28,000. Top of the main payscale is £38,810. Bottom range for Headteachers is £47,735 - £63,508. " I don't know anyone that pays 25% in to their salary. All pensions, private and public sectors, are topped up by contributions from their employer. | |||
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"I won't pretend to know all the facts, so feel free to correct me on anything. Isn't it an independent review board that decides wages? Not the govt? It's the union leaders and govt that lobby these review boards to try and get what they feel they deserve? Could be why neither side speaks out against these review boards in fear of reprisal... I fully support the strikes btw - we all learned how much we rely on these essential workers. How many parents are delighted when September rolls around and they get to send their kids back to school after just a few weeks? I will be one of those parents come September. My mum was one of those parents. Rhod Gilbert (legend - wishing him all my love right now) sheds a little light on what primary teachers, care workers and some other under valued workers do day to day. Worth a watch IMO." Yes the STRB make pay recommendations, but it's a recommendation, not a something the Govt have to agree. The review board last made a recommendation before the cost of living started to go bananas AND the most recent pay award of 5% was unfunded. What that means is that schools had to use existing budgets to pay 5% increases to staff. At the same time, fuel prices went skywards and it was the start of the winter term. The strikes are not purely about pay itself, but a myriad other issues around conditions and working practices but also to try and stop future pay awards being unfunded. School budgets simply cannot stretch to pay for all these things. | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. A quick Google told me YES That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni. Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher. I don't know any teachers out of work." Probably because lots have left the profession | |||
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"28k sounds great for a 9-5 but that’s not the reality is it… Many members of my family are teachers. I have worked in schools, and work regularly with them in my current role. Teachers work so much in their own time that it becomes ridiculous. On top of that some then need to buy resources themselves. Teaching, like many other roles, is a thankless job. Teachers could “quiet quit” instead of strike but then we’ll see how shit the education system can get! " This all over | |||
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"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes. 30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed Yes. I also feel sorry for the joe, they also interviewed parents and they arent happy about it, as they have to take time of work, yes, it is sad times too for the nhs as their patients have to wait for their operations." They are also "joe public" | |||
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"If only there was an obvious solution that would put an immediate end to the strikes! But that would involve valuing teachers, so instead the government will play the victim and rely on dividing the country to secure some pity." Well the Tory solution is to ban striking altogether - and further under a bill currently going through parliament even thinking about or planning a “potentially disruptive protest” could be criminalised. Let’s hope the Lords put a stop to such outrageous and draconian measures. | |||
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"I won't pretend to know all the facts, so feel free to correct me on anything. Isn't it an independent review board that decides wages? Not the govt? It's the union leaders and govt that lobby these review boards to try and get what they feel they deserve? Could be why neither side speaks out against these review boards in fear of reprisal... I fully support the strikes btw - we all learned how much we rely on these essential workers. How many parents are delighted when September rolls around and they get to send their kids back to school after just a few weeks? I will be one of those parents come September. My mum was one of those parents. Rhod Gilbert (legend - wishing him all my love right now) sheds a little light on what primary teachers, care workers and some other under valued workers do day to day. Worth a watch IMO." If you believe they’re genuinely independent I’ve a bridge for sale! | |||
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"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read. Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006. Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have... 19k It's £28k according to Google. I'm an LSA on £14k, Agency" That was raised by the Gov in 2022, the starting salary was much lower before. It is to attract and try and keep teachers | |||
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" If you don't like the job you do or unsatisfied with the conditions then don't do it. " Does that apply to every industry that is going on strike at the moment? If everyone leaves who will do those jobs? | |||
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" If you don't like the job you do or unsatisfied with the conditions then don't do it. Does that apply to every industry that is going on strike at the moment? If everyone leaves who will do those jobs?" Exactly! The people striking were classed essential workers during Covid - how quickly was that forgotten! | |||
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"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday ! But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school Without a fine for a holiday ?" If your child has a normally good attendance some schools use their discretion and let parents remove them for a holiday | |||
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"^^^Its not all about pay! No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening. Really? So nothing to do with the fact that the RMT have been striking, and the CMU and ASLEF and the Nurses Union - and that some of those union leaders have been calling for a general strike? " No. Mainly as people who work in these jobs have their own mind and have voted | |||
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"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed. Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service." Sadly many parents, not all, treat it exactly like a childminder. We have also become, social care,behaviour specialists when parents cannot effectively parent,in addition to educators. We are also safeguarding, first aid, mentors,careers advisors..the list goes on. I am not a teacher,I'm a head of year. My pay is no where near £28k..i could earn more on the checkout at Tesco's. I and other's like me (support staff) are vastly underpaid for the work we do, but, we do it because we want to help the students...just like nurses who go above and beyond fir their patients. | |||
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