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Shamima Begum
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By *.L.0460. OP Woman
over a year ago
Bognor Regis |
This is a really inflammatory discussion & since I started working with vulnerable kids, I am more conflicted about her;
Groomed & manipulated at 15 & tempted by a life that didn't exist, lost 3 babies, seen unimaginable horrors, spent her years since living in squalor & fear, maybe developing a hardened persona to cope with it...
Like most people, I saw her 1st interview & thought she was a monster & deserved to die in that camp. Now that I have more knowledge of grooming & vulnerability in young people, I find myself feeling some sympathy for her & her family.
Am I the only person who feels like this? |
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"This is a really inflammatory discussion & since I started working with vulnerable kids, I am more conflicted about her;
Groomed & manipulated at 15 & tempted by a life that didn't exist, lost 3 babies, seen unimaginable horrors, spent her years since living in squalor & fear, maybe developing a hardened persona to cope with it...
Like most people, I saw her 1st interview & thought she was a monster & deserved to die in that camp. Now that I have more knowledge of grooming & vulnerability in young people, I find myself feeling some sympathy for her & her family.
Am I the only person who feels like this?"
I have no sympathy what would you be saying if she had gone on to committing a crime of maybe blowing innocent people up in a shop or on the street, she may have been groomed but innocence is no excuse  |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
Being groomed at any age without clearly understanding the impact of what they are being taught is always a difficult one as the law state should know or old enough to know but mentally how can any of this be true.. their is always two sides to everything and should be heard it's a cruel world we live in people get manipulated |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
No you are not the only one.
I'm not one of those people though. I'm extremely indifferent to her, I neither have hate nor compassionate empathy for her. I understand the grooming situation, but unless she had an extremely sheltered life at that time, she surely should have been old enough to realise the war situation.
At that age if an older beautiful woman had attempted to groom me in to going there, no amount of teenage infatuation and hormonal horn would ever have been enough to convince me that my life would be better there. |
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I'm on the fence with this one, I totally get were you're coming from op, and to an extent feel some compassion towards her.
My issue is, we only know the facts of what's she's been through from the mainstream media, that is were my problem lies. As we all know the media is utter poison and feeds us with lies and deceit every single day, so apart from the young lady in question, does anyone actually know the truth? |
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I've had similar philosophical arguments about serial killers. Abused as kids, beaten, bullied, grow up to murder dozens of people. My heart bleeds for that poor kid as it wasn't their fault. But as a grown up, they just deserve to get the electric chair. We can't fix what happened to her in the past. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"I've had similar philosophical arguments about serial killers. Abused as kids, beaten, bullied, grow up to murder dozens of people. My heart bleeds for that poor kid as it wasn't their fault. But as a grown up, they just deserve to get the electric chair. We can't fix what happened to her in the past."
keep in mind she didn't do anything quite as horrific as those killers, she in some part did have a part in horrific acts, even by just being knowingly married in to the terrorist organisation - as far as we have been told.
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She travelled all that way to marry a terrorist didn't she? She shared the same ideology in hating the country that she'd lived in.
If so.
No sympathy from me, count ourselves lucky she didn't blow up a concert in this country killing kids or at least have anything to do with that kind of act. |
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By *ayHaychMan
over a year ago
Leeds (Home) / Sheffield (Work) |
For me it’s interesting to see how she has been used as face for terrorist brides. Others have been there and then been allowed to return.
Also cases of similar grooming here in the UK (for different extremist groups) where there were plans and steps taken to do harm to others, however not given any media attention…
I think her face fits (literally and figuratively) the stereotyped idea (pushed by the media) of a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser and therefore people cannot contain their emotions to discuss it. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account."
She won't ever really be able to have a productive life in the UK. Her face is extremely well known, even new identity won't help her out all that much.
She would struggle to find respectable employment, if any - most places (most) likely would not want to be associated with her. I highly doubt she would be safe from threats towards her - not exactly productive if she is given security on the tax payers money. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
Of course she was groomed.
People should also read up on the utterly tragic case of Rhianon Rudd. If a teenager white girl can be acknowledged as having been groomed by right wing extremists, I'm not sure how or why a teenage Muslim girl can't be groomed by Islamic extremistd |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We did this to death, it got acrimonious fast, as I suspect this one will. Peoples opinions are largely long since set, I doubt a single person will change their mind based on any commentary here, but just use it as a sounding board for their own opinion. I put mine in the ring last time, I won't this time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account."
 |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account."
Precedents have already been set. And they contradict her treatment at the hands of the British Government |
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By *.L.0460. OP Woman
over a year ago
Bognor Regis |
"We did this to death, it got acrimonious fast, as I suspect this one will. Peoples opinions are largely long since set, I doubt a single person will change their mind based on any commentary here, but just use it as a sounding board for their own opinion. I put mine in the ring last time, I won't this time."
I wouldn't argue with anyone, or try to change their mind. I'm just curious about how others feel. There aren't many places that I thought I could air my view & get unfiltered answers!! |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account.
She won't ever really be able to have a productive life in the UK. Her face is extremely well known, even new identity won't help her out all that much.
She would struggle to find respectable employment, if any - most places (most) likely would not want to be associated with her. I highly doubt she would be safe from threats towards her - not exactly productive if she is given security on the tax payers money."
By productive, if she is truly changed and reformed person, she could be put to use to discourage radicalisation and extremism amongst young people. |
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"I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account.
She won't ever really be able to have a productive life in the UK. Her face is extremely well known, even new identity won't help her out all that much.
She would struggle to find respectable employment, if any - most places (most) likely would not want to be associated with her. I highly doubt she would be safe from threats towards her - not exactly productive if she is given security on the tax payers money.
By productive, if she is truly changed and reformed person, she could be put to use to discourage radicalisation and extremism amongst young people. "
Give her a job at the public expense you mean. |
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n most circumstances, people deserve a second chance and the opportunity for redemption. But the risks are high if she presents a danger to other's lives. My unease over Begum is that undoubtedly many ISIS 'volunteers' have been brought back quietly. But she had her citizenship revoked on a technicality, and hence denied repatriation. That might be seen as unjust. |
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Nobody gonna talk about the fact that she'd actually get shagged ? ..not a massive fan of her jihad principles .but she's clearly submissive and travels for fun.. probably a non smoker . And judging by her history..she's into breeding and Asians ...she'd actually be a popular profile on here |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"I don't have sympathy and I don't believe that she was groomed or coerced.
The question is though, should somebody's actions at the age of 15 define them for life?
Maybe she deserves a second chance at living a productive life in the UK, however there are obviously serious questions that need to be asked and safety measures needed to be taken. Also the implications and precedents set need to be taken into account.
She won't ever really be able to have a productive life in the UK. Her face is extremely well known, even new identity won't help her out all that much.
She would struggle to find respectable employment, if any - most places (most) likely would not want to be associated with her. I highly doubt she would be safe from threats towards her - not exactly productive if she is given security on the tax payers money.
By productive, if she is truly changed and reformed person, she could be put to use to discourage radicalisation and extremism amongst young people. "
She is too controversial to be given any kind of position. She will never be free of the stigma no matter how reformed.
She is a nobody, an unknown that has not actually done anything of note yet causes the hate in people to rise to the top as if she were on the level of serial Killers, or Jimmy Saville, hell I think even he gets less hate than she does. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Nobody gonna talk about the fact that she'd actually get shagged ? ..not a massive fan of her jihad principles .but she's clearly submissive and travels for fun.. probably a non smoker . And judging by her history..she's into breeding and Asians ...she'd actually be a popular profile on here "
Wow! |
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"We did this to death, it got acrimonious fast, as I suspect this one will. Peoples opinions are largely long since set, I doubt a single person will change their mind based on any commentary here, but just use it as a sounding board for their own opinion. I put mine in the ring last time, I won't this time.
I wouldn't argue with anyone, or try to change their mind. I'm just curious about how others feel. There aren't many places that I thought I could air my view & get unfiltered answers!!"
I do understand where you're coming from OP. I find myself trying to understand her motives & actions and putting myself in her shoes.
As a young teenager, I had some crazy ideas about the state of the world. I wanted to go & live at Greenham Common to protest nuclear arms. My parents - rightly - pointed out I was being silly. What about school? How would I afford to live? Etc. Clearly, I realised it would be a daft undertaking so I changed my mind. As teenagers often do.
I'm trying to imagine how this would have turned out if there had been social media back then. Or if I'd been groomed. I didn't have a particularly happy childhood, so could have been open to it....?
But then throw in that ISIS are a terrorist organisation, atrocities well publicised, as are their views on women, and would I really have joined them at 15? Travelled to another country?? Maybe I don't fully get how a person can be groomed, but I just know I'd not have done that.
I guess I'm saying she made a tough choice and I'm afraid, on balance, that she must now live with the consequences. |
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By *.L.0460. OP Woman
over a year ago
Bognor Regis |
"Nobody gonna talk about the fact that she'd actually get shagged ? ..not a massive fan of her jihad principles .but she's clearly submissive and travels for fun.. probably a non smoker . And judging by her history..she's into breeding and Asians ...she'd actually be a popular profile on here
Wow! "
Exactly what I thought  |
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"We did this to death, it got acrimonious fast, as I suspect this one will. Peoples opinions are largely long since set, I doubt a single person will change their mind based on any commentary here, but just use it as a sounding board for their own opinion. I put mine in the ring last time, I won't this time.
I wouldn't argue with anyone, or try to change their mind. I'm just curious about how others feel. There aren't many places that I thought I could air my view & get unfiltered answers!!
I do understand where you're coming from OP. I find myself trying to understand her motives & actions and putting myself in her shoes.
As a young teenager, I had some crazy ideas about the state of the world. I wanted to go & live at Greenham Common to protest nuclear arms. My parents - rightly - pointed out I was being silly. What about school? How would I afford to live? Etc. Clearly, I realised it would be a daft undertaking so I changed my mind. As teenagers often do.
I'm trying to imagine how this would have turned out if there had been social media back then. Or if I'd been groomed. I didn't have a particularly happy childhood, so could have been open to it....?
But then throw in that ISIS are a terrorist organisation, atrocities well publicised, as are their views on women, and would I really have joined them at 15? Travelled to another country?? Maybe I don't fully get how a person can be groomed, but I just know I'd not have done that.
I guess I'm saying she made a tough choice and I'm afraid, on balance, that she must now live with the consequences. "
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By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
Many years ago a young 12 year Mary Bell killed two toddlers she was tried served her time and went to have a daughter and I believe now has grandchildren.However her and her daughter have a lifetime ruling that there real names and identity can not be revealed.By all accounts she could be considered a rehabilitated murderer.Growing up she witnessed her mother working in the sex business involving the sex acts where women are whipping , beating men and there are some that feel that may have made her do what she did.I guess what I am trying to say if Mary Bell can be rehabilitated perhaps there is hope for Shamima Begum |
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There was a recent case of a white young girl...groomed by right wing extremists...she was spouting racist views, researched bomb making, lived with and spoke with right wing extremists...and ended being charged with terrorism and then unfortunately committed suicide. They say she should have been looked at as a girl being groomed and brainwashed by terrorists and abused sexually and not as a terrorist.... hmmmmmm why the difference between the 2 girls ?? I wonder why |
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Of course you can rehabilitate someone but she was 15 she had the ability to organise travel to another country, she knew what ISIS were about, she knew what her husband was, she knew what she was doing and now shes back here in probably the only country that would have her manipulating us, cmon lets forgive and forget |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"There was a recent case of a white young girl...groomed by right wing extremists...she was spouting racist views, researched bomb making, lived with and spoke with right wing extremists...and ended being charged with terrorism and then unfortunately committed suicide. They say she should have been looked at as a girl being groomed and brainwashed by terrorists and abused sexually and not as a terrorist.... hmmmmmm why the difference between the 2 girls ?? I wonder why "
I mentioned that case earlier in the thread. Its heartbreaking but it demonstrates that grooming can be political/societal as well as sexual. And no one would blame a teenage schoolgirl for being sexually groomed.
The difference is as you say, very clear |
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"Of course you can rehabilitate someone but she was 15 she had the ability to organise travel to another country, she knew what ISIS were about, she knew what her husband was, she knew what she was doing and now shes back here in probably the only country that would have her manipulating us, cmon lets forgive and forget "
.................................
I don't think anyones suggesting we should forgive and forget, she should face the criminal consequences of her actions based on her age at the time |
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By *illianbTV/TS
over a year ago
Stockton-On-Tees |
personally let her come back , if she has committed crimes we can prove then off to jail for the appropriate term , think as a 15 year old it’s highly likely she was groomed in a way that would meet the threshold to prosecute the groomer !
But leaving her in Syria does no one any good |
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"This is a really inflammatory discussion & since I started working with vulnerable kids, I am more conflicted about her;
Groomed & manipulated at 15 & tempted by a life that didn't exist, lost 3 babies, seen unimaginable horrors, spent her years since living in squalor & fear, maybe developing a hardened persona to cope with it...
Like most people, I saw her 1st interview & thought she was a monster & deserved to die in that camp. Now that I have more knowledge of grooming & vulnerability in young people, I find myself feeling some sympathy for her & her family.
Am I the only person who feels like this?I have no sympathy what would you be saying if she had gone on to committing a crime of maybe blowing innocent people up in a shop or on the street, she may have been groomed but innocence is no excuse "
We can't judge children on what ifs.
What if that nice little girl down the road grew up to be like Myra Hindley? Might as well imprison her now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I really do wonder about parents in those situations. I could be being unfair here but surely as a parent you might notice things like that? Not sure though.
I think she's not very bright and get the impression that also affects her emotional intelligence. She just seems very vague as a person. Not much going on in there.
So it's tricky. Because she did know what was happening, but until we know the full story from her it's hard to judge. |
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How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
When people say they have no interest and don't care what happens to her (a fully understandable and valid opinion), does it not worry you thstbthe British government illegally stripped her of her british citizenship? She was born in Britain, held a British passport, hervparents luved here perfectly legally, she has never held dual nationality or a passport for another country yet based on her parents nationality and the fact she could be entitled to seek citizenship in their country of birth she has been stripped of her British citizenship and left stateless contrary to international law.
Because regardless of who she is and what she did, our government doing that is frankly absolutely fucking terrifying |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm not sure anyone can truly say that young teenagers make sound and rational decisions in life, that should hang over them for life, especially seeing as science prooves their brains aren't fully formed yet.
Not that anyone cares, but I believe she's being used as a political chess piece. I daresay there's far more dangerous people within our communities right now?
Should she be held accountable? Of course. Did she have extremist views, and associate with awful people with dangerous ideologies? Yes. Is she a terrorist? Hmmm...silly girl more like, who would probably have been shoplifting or similar if she hadn't left. |
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" I'm not sure anyone can truly say that young teenagers make sound and rational decisions in life, that should hang over them for life, especially seeing as science prooves their brains aren't fully formed yet.
Not that anyone cares, but I believe she's being used as a political chess piece. I daresay there's far more dangerous people within our communities right now?
Should she be held accountable? Of course. Did she have extremist views, and associate with awful people with dangerous ideologies? Yes. Is she a terrorist? Hmmm...silly girl more like, who would probably have been shoplifting or similar if she hadn't left."
I think I love you. I'm fickle tho |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis."
And those that don't it are treated as missing people, as vulnerable, all manner of child protection issues arise. Depending on their age the partner could be arrested, sent to prison.
They aren't told that they need to live with the consequences of adolescent rebellion for the rest of their lives |
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"It's also terrifying that as a child in this country she was not guarded from r*pe or trafficking and was dumped abroad to suit a baying public opinion."
Its very terrifying!
Lets not forget we live in a country with a long history of elites including some in government as well as 'celebrities' being embroiled in paedophilia and who have links with traffickers
I just think it's shame on us as a nation for doing so little to protect the most vulnerable in our society from those who seek to exploit them |
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What really happened to her two friends who went with her.who killed them ? Did she do stuff to keep herself alive.surely at 15 she new what she was doing.at 15 I was hanging around older football hooligans I new what I was doing at the time.people can change when they get older like I did.BUT if your a terrorist and pose a threat to our country only place is prison.she didn't give a flying fck about the people she saw killed.bring her back put her on trial then lock her up with that other British hating preacher hook hand (forgot is name ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So what people are saying with all the coverage on Isis and knowing who they are and what they are capable of at 15 why would she want to join them, would this be a different story if a 15 yr old lad who went their picked up guns and fought with Isis you'd allow them back in |
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"What really happened to her two friends who went with her.who killed them ? Did she do stuff to keep herself alive.surely at 15 she new what she was doing.at 15 I was hanging around older football hooligans I new what I was doing at the time.people can change when they get older like I did.BUT if your a terrorist and pose a threat to our country only place is prison.she didn't give a flying fck about the people she saw killed.bring her back put her on trial then lock her up with that other British hating preacher hook hand (forgot is name )"
Very forgiving of yourself. |
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"So what people are saying with all the coverage on Isis and knowing who they are and what they are capable of at 15 why would she want to join them, would this be a different story if a 15 yr old lad who went their picked up guns and fought with Isis you'd allow them back in "
She didn't pick up guns.....
Lets make it fair and say he was wooed by an older woman.... had unde*age sex and watched his kids die. |
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She willingly got on a plane to go join a terrorist and knew she was doing that, personally at age 15 I don't think that's just being young and dumb.
She knew it was wrong at the time and she knows it was wrong now, I don't want her or anyone like her in the country. |
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"This is a really inflammatory discussion & since I started working with vulnerable kids, I am more conflicted about her;
Groomed & manipulated at 15 & tempted by a life that didn't exist, lost 3 babies, seen unimaginable horrors, spent her years since living in squalor & fear, maybe developing a hardened persona to cope with it...
Like most people, I saw her 1st interview & thought she was a monster & deserved to die in that camp. Now that I have more knowledge of grooming & vulnerability in young people, I find myself feeling some sympathy for her & her family.
Am I the only person who feels like this?"
My religion probably saved me ass. Luckily for me my religion was extremist or fundamentalist or terrorist.
I know plenty of people who did dumb shit at 15. She won't be the first or the last.
I'm not perfect by a long shot so I won't be baying for blood or casting the first stone.
Maverick out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whilst it's safe to say she was probably groomed. I do question her over all intelligence. Like it wasn't exactly a secret about how many people Isis were killing in horrific ways. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
I think people are missing a key point. Of course she knew what ISIS was doing, she was groomed to believe it was a just and honourable cause that she should support and be willing to die for. That's how grooming works. And it's how radicalisation works |
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"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different "
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit |
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A lot of people don't seem to understand how very sheltered the life of a girl from a conservative Muslim family might well be (ditto other religious groups). I delivered some education workshops in a Jewish faith school years ago and the children (key stage 4) did not watch television or know any Disney/cartoon characters or similar. Their religious families simply did not let them view such things. It's very possible she at 15 did not know the full extent of the ISIS/war situation.
It's very difficult for we 24/7 media consumers to comprehend that yes, people can and do exist in the UK, in a reasonably total media blackout. |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
She made her bed she can lye in it as far as i am concerned. Alan Henning was the step farther of one of my daughters best friends she was put through hell aged17 by these disgusting criminals hope she rots there for the rest of her life |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think people are missing a key point. Of course she knew what ISIS was doing, she was groomed to believe it was a just and honourable cause that she should support and be willing to die for. That's how grooming works. And it's how radicalisation works"
Exactly. Why does the country have a Contest and Prevent strategy? Because it recognises that terrorism and extremism, isn't like the James Bond Movies.
Impressionable and disaffected people are targeted and groomed, then exploited. It's a story as old as time...come join our exciting team, to fight the bad guys, it'll be awesome raging against the machine!
Oh wait, she's 15, well, we'll never persuade a 15 year old to do something dumb  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit "
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home |
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"I think people are missing a key point. Of course she knew what ISIS was doing, she was groomed to believe it was a just and honourable cause that she should support and be willing to die for. That's how grooming works. And it's how radicalisation works"
99.9% of people would distance themselves well away from those people as soon as they found out they supported a terrorist group.
No decent human is going to communicate in a friendly way with someone like that. |
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"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home"
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ? |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"A lot of people don't seem to understand how very sheltered the life of a girl from a conservative Muslim family might well be (ditto other religious groups). I delivered some education workshops in a Jewish faith school years ago and the children (key stage 4) did not watch television or know any Disney/cartoon characters or similar. Their religious families simply did not let them view such things. It's very possible she at 15 did not know the full extent of the ISIS/war situation.
It's very difficult for we 24/7 media consumers to comprehend that yes, people can and do exist in the UK, in a reasonably total media blackout. "
Her family were fearing her safety and trying to stop her leaving the country. From what I remember the UK Gov did a less than grand job at the ports in letting her get through as did all the other nations as she made crossings.
Similar job to the Manchester b ombers brother who simply left the country despite courts and police wanting him to give evidence - you'd think ports would turn them back in a minute. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?"
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers |
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"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers "
You never mentioned the cornfields ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers
You never mentioned the cornfields ?"
Well that what be a stupid thing to do, but joing a terrorist organisation seems to be ok for you |
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"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers
You never mentioned the cornfields ?
Well that what be a stupid thing to do, but joing a terrorist organisation seems to be ok for you"
Stop avoiding the cornfield question |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers
You never mentioned the cornfields ?
Well that what be a stupid thing to do, but joing a terrorist organisation seems to be ok for you
Stop avoiding the cornfield question"
Would you bring harm to innocent people? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A lot of people don't seem to understand how very sheltered the life of a girl from a conservative Muslim family might well be (ditto other religious groups). I delivered some education workshops in a Jewish faith school years ago and the children (key stage 4) did not watch television or know any Disney/cartoon characters or similar. Their religious families simply did not let them view such things. It's very possible she at 15 did not know the full extent of the ISIS/war situation.
It's very difficult for we 24/7 media consumers to comprehend that yes, people can and do exist in the UK, in a reasonably total media blackout. "
Very well put.
It’s not totally excusing people to make an effort to understand their background and see their bad decisions in that light. As some have pointed out, many 15 year olds make bad decisions - with her upbringing, with radical people having access to her, it’s not surprising she made those choices. |
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"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers
You never mentioned the cornfields ?
Well that what be a stupid thing to do, but joing a terrorist organisation seems to be ok for you
Stop avoiding the cornfield question
Would you bring harm to innocent people?"
Would you crush the corn with your big man feet ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers
You never mentioned the cornfields ?
Well that what be a stupid thing to do, but joing a terrorist organisation seems to be ok for you
Stop avoiding the cornfield question
Would you bring harm to innocent people?
Would you crush the corn with your big man feet ?"
Rather do that than house a terrorist unlike yourself |
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"Yes we all done dumb shit but to get on a plane to join a terrorist organisation is a different
Why is it ?
So your dumb shit is excusable at 15 but when she's 15 she knows it all ....
Bullshit
Ok would you be happy housing her in your home
Yes.
Do you like running through corn fields ?
Wow you would house a known terrorist sympathisers
You never mentioned the cornfields ?
Well that what be a stupid thing to do, but joing a terrorist organisation seems to be ok for you
Stop avoiding the cornfield question
Would you bring harm to innocent people?
Would you crush the corn with your big man feet ?
Rather do that than house a terrorist unlike yourself "
You crushed so much corn you are saying the opposite of what you think you are saying...
|
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"How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis."
Nobody is saying she was an adult though granny people are saying she was 15 and knew to a certain extent what she was doing, she as i said had the ability to organise travel to a foreign country, she knew what ISIS were.... google and she knew what her husband was.She learnt Turkish to get across border with her 2 friends, shes also had 3 children all of which have died? Shes 23 now and dare i say it quite attractive.
She doesn't have British citizenship anymore the British government had no choice but to remove it, she after all had joined a terrorist organisation.  |
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Lovely phrase ' to a certain extent' .... like a lad with a slobbering hard on would fuck a witch .... the 15 year old girl could only see ..' the soldier in love with her ' in her eyes.
Nothing you have said is proof enough that she engineered it all herself and knew enough about world affairs to know what she was getting into. |
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"Lovely phrase ' to a certain extent' .... like a lad with a slobbering hard on would fuck a witch .... the 15 year old girl could only see ..' the soldier in love with her ' in her eyes.
Nothing you have said is proof enough that she engineered it all herself and knew enough about world affairs to know what she was getting into. "
She learnt Turkish to get across border....... She educated herself, get where I'm coming from and shes not a British citizen anymore.  |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis.Nobody is saying she was an adult though granny people are saying she was 15 and knew to a certain extent what she was doing, she as i said had the ability to organise travel to a foreign country, she knew what ISIS were.... google and she knew what her husband was.She learnt Turkish to get across border with her 2 friends, shes also had 3 children all of which have died? Shes 23 now and dare i say it quite attractive.
She doesn't have British citizenship anymore the British government had no choice but to remove it, she after all had joined a terrorist organisation. "
There is literally no precedent to remove citizenship for joining a terrorist organisation.
Also it breaches international law.
So it woukd be truer to say they had no choice but to let her retain her British citizenship.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's a difficult subject. I think one can condem her beliefs while being empathetic to her journey there.
I'd also say that views on grooming can depend on what the result is.
A 15yo is groomed to have sex with adults. We would not say that at 15 yo she knew her mind and what right and wrong is. We rightfully see her as a victim and go after the adults.
Rhiannon Rudd is being portrayed as a victim. Is that because she didn't get as far as committing attrocities and we can see evidence of grooming. Or because of the way it ended ?
I also think there are elements that people thing should change with age. She should know better now. Her blaise views on beheadings. Is that because her grooming experience continued beyond 18? Is her coolness that much different to a solider? Say Harry?
Regardless of views on her, I am uncomfortable with the approach the UK took. Especially as this started here. For a country who wants to be hard on immigration is it right we also seek to push our own citizens into others ?
Hmmm.
|
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"How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis.Nobody is saying she was an adult though granny people are saying she was 15 and knew to a certain extent what she was doing, she as i said had the ability to organise travel to a foreign country, she knew what ISIS were.... google and she knew what her husband was.She learnt Turkish to get across border with her 2 friends, shes also had 3 children all of which have died? Shes 23 now and dare i say it quite attractive.
She doesn't have British citizenship anymore the British government had no choice but to remove it, she after all had joined a terrorist organisation.
There is literally no precedent to remove citizenship for joining a terrorist organisation.
Also it breaches international law.
So it woukd be truer to say they had no choice but to let her retain her British citizenship.
"
There is precedent. She is not the only person to have had her citizenship removed in recent years. It wasn't an arbitrary decision and, even if it was, it's been backed up by the courts.
She has not been left "stateless", she has recourse to foreign citizenship through her father.
People saying she is a British citizen by being born here are wrong. That's not how the British Nationality Act 1981 works.
I'd feel safer if all self confessed, or proven terrorists, were removed from the country. |
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By *elly72Woman
over a year ago
glasgow |
I don’t agree that she was groomed she knew exactly what she was doing now it’s time for her to deal with her actions. Leave her where she is she’s not a British citizen she was willing to kill to be the big woman, time to grow up then if her family don’t like it they can join her |
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"I don’t agree that she was groomed she knew exactly what she was doing now it’s time for her to deal with her actions. Leave her where she is she’s not a British citizen she was willing to kill to be the big woman, time to grow up then if her family don’t like it they can join her "
Of course she was groomed! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis.Nobody is saying she was an adult though granny people are saying she was 15 and knew to a certain extent what she was doing, she as i said had the ability to organise travel to a foreign country, she knew what ISIS were.... google and she knew what her husband was.She learnt Turkish to get across border with her 2 friends, shes also had 3 children all of which have died? Shes 23 now and dare i say it quite attractive.
She doesn't have British citizenship anymore the British government had no choice but to remove it, she after all had joined a terrorist organisation.
There is literally no precedent to remove citizenship for joining a terrorist organisation.
Also it breaches international law.
So it woukd be truer to say they had no choice but to let her retain her British citizenship.
There is precedent. She is not the only person to have had her citizenship removed in recent years. It wasn't an arbitrary decision and, even if it was, it's been backed up by the courts.
She has not been left "stateless", she has recourse to foreign citizenship through her father.
People saying she is a British citizen by being born here are wrong. That's not how the British Nationality Act 1981 works.
I'd feel safer if all self confessed, or proven terrorists, were removed from the country. "
she is a british citizen tho. As she was born here AND her parents were settled here.
I also understood that the SC said she didn't have the right to come her to fight the decision. Not that the decision was correct.
I assume her dad is Bangladeshi by birth for her to be able to claim that citizenship. Although as Bangladesh has said she would be killed if she goes there then she could probably get citizenship and then claim.rwfugee on the UK !! |
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According to the Financial Times in Nov 19 over 900 British passport holders went to fight for ISIS of which 360 have returned to live amongst us. I despise ISIS, I think they are as bad as the Nazis and Pol Pot. However I cannot understand the hatred directed towards a young woman who was a child when she went to Syria, quite possibly groomed where as potentially far more dangerous terrorists are back leading supposedly normal lives. Those 360 present far more of a threat to our safety than this woman does and I'm surprised that the anger and vitriol isn't directed towards them.
She should come back because she's British and we should own our problems. If she's suspected of criminal behaviour she should be tried and punished but so should the 360 others. However I suspect many of those 360 have committed terrible crimes against humanity but will get away with it whilst we concentrate on a woman, who to our knowledge has not directly committed any crimes.
It's a tough one because I despise Isis and it's supporters but feel we need to direct our anger towards those who did actually commit atrocities. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I find it really hard to sympathise with her situation.
I fully understand about radicalisation and extremism as well as prevent duty and it makes no difference. Sorry |
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"How can people believe she knew what she was doing ?
A 15 year old may know that it's wrong to stay out late or drink alcohol cos they've been told not to but to argue that a 15 year old is a fully grown adult with a complete knowledge of the world and the consequences of playing @ marrying a soldier shows a huge lack of awareness and reason.
That's all she did that we know of.
Ran off with her boyfriend.
Thousands do that on a daily basis.Nobody is saying she was an adult though granny people are saying she was 15 and knew to a certain extent what she was doing, she as i said had the ability to organise travel to a foreign country, she knew what ISIS were.... google and she knew what her husband was.She learnt Turkish to get across border with her 2 friends, shes also had 3 children all of which have died? Shes 23 now and dare i say it quite attractive.
She doesn't have British citizenship anymore the British government had no choice but to remove it, she after all had joined a terrorist organisation.
There is literally no precedent to remove citizenship for joining a terrorist organisation.
Also it breaches international law.
So it woukd be truer to say they had no choice but to let her retain her British citizenship.
There is precedent. She is not the only person to have had her citizenship removed in recent years. It wasn't an arbitrary decision and, even if it was, it's been backed up by the courts.
She has not been left "stateless", she has recourse to foreign citizenship through her father.
People saying she is a British citizen by being born here are wrong. That's not how the British Nationality Act 1981 works.
I'd feel safer if all self confessed, or proven terrorists, were removed from the country. she is a british citizen tho. As she was born here AND her parents were settled here.
I also understood that the SC said she didn't have the right to come her to fight the decision. Not that the decision was correct.
I assume her dad is Bangladeshi by birth for her to be able to claim that citizenship. Although as Bangladesh has said she would be killed if she goes there then she could probably get citizenship and then claim.rwfugee on the UK !! "
From what I understand, she actually doesn't qualify for a Bangladeshi passport because she didn't claim one by the time she was 21. Her right to citizenship there was lapsed. |
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