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Electric cars in winter..
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Spotted an interesting article this morning.
Why Britain's electric dream is driving so many of us to distraction https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583677/Why-Britains-electric-dream-driving-distraction-One-motorist-reveals-how.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've got 2 electric cars and yes I lose range when the temperature drops
But I also have a fairly accurate range estimate readout.
Fossil fueled cars also lose range in cold weather but having a needle pointing on a scale and not a number of how far you have left till empty is very misleading
Articles in the press saying how terrible electric cars are and we're all being lied too are what sells, so please read them by all means but with a big pinch of salt. |
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By *luboyoMan
over a year ago
North West / Birmingham |
"I've got 2 electric cars and yes I lose range when the temperature drops
But I also have a fairly accurate range estimate readout.
Fossil fueled cars also lose range in cold weather but having a needle pointing on a scale and not a number of how far you have left till empty is very misleading
Articles in the press saying how terrible electric cars are and we're all being lied too are what sells, so please read them by all means but with a big pinch of salt. "
 |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold"
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked. |
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"I've got 2 electric cars and yes I lose range when the temperature drops
But I also have a fairly accurate range estimate readout.
Fossil fueled cars also lose range in cold weather but having a needle pointing on a scale and not a number of how far you have left till empty is very misleading
Articles in the press saying how terrible electric cars are and we're all being lied too are what sells, so please read them by all means but with a big pinch of salt. "
Yeah, I mean, daily mail ... |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked. "
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
|
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"I've got 2 electric cars and yes I lose range when the temperature drops
But I also have a fairly accurate range estimate readout.
Fossil fueled cars also lose range in cold weather but having a needle pointing on a scale and not a number of how far you have left till empty is very misleading
Articles in the press saying how terrible electric cars are and we're all being lied too are what sells, so please read them by all means but with a big pinch of salt.
Yeah, I mean, daily mail ..."
The point is more a member of the general population has written about her day literally and the issues that arose In what should have been an easy trip.
 |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
"
Not 20 miles overnight they won’t. You should hardly notice any drop, unless something is waking the car up. |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
Not 20 miles overnight they won’t. You should hardly notice any drop, unless something is waking the car up. "
Lithium Ion Batteries are adversely effected by temperature, the chemical reactions that create the power are slower at lower temperatures reducing both the range and available current. Unused they would regain the "lost" power when the temperature rises, but any power consumed will be at the diminished rate meaning less power from your charge. The charge rate would also be reduced if its cold too.
On the flip side though, when the weather is warmer the effects are reversed. If it is hotter than average, you will get more range, more power and quick charging.
Cal |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
Not 20 miles overnight they won’t. You should hardly notice any drop, unless something is waking the car up.
Lithium Ion Batteries are adversely effected by temperature, the chemical reactions that create the power are slower at lower temperatures reducing both the range and available current. Unused they would regain the "lost" power when the temperature rises, but any power consumed will be at the diminished rate meaning less power from your charge. The charge rate would also be reduced if its cold too.
On the flip side though, when the weather is warmer the effects are reversed. If it is hotter than average, you will get more range, more power and quick charging.
Cal"
Not while stationary overnight. The loss will be hardly anything. Don’t forget even EV’s have a 12v battery to keep things ticking over. When in use then yes, they don’t like cold temperatures. That’s why most people will pre-condition before departure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My range is about 250 at the moment... In summer it is 330-350
Whilst it does lose a bit overnight when it is cold, bizarrely if the heat is on low fan it actually increases the range a tiny amount  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
Not 20 miles overnight they won’t. You should hardly notice any drop, unless something is waking the car up. "
My range can reduce by up to 20 miles overnight if it is cold |
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Talking of electric cars in winter - I have a long commute - w Cornwall to Exeter over Bodmin moor & Dartmoor. On a few occasions over the years I've been snowed in (twice overnight & once I was even on the national news!)
So... My question is how would one keep warm - on the above occasions I fired up the engine & had the heater on - I'm guessing this wouldn't be an option (for long) in an electric car?
What I'm getting at is would I freeze to death?  |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
Not 20 miles overnight they won’t. You should hardly notice any drop, unless something is waking the car up.
My range can reduce by up to 20 miles overnight if it is cold "
That’s probably your estimated range, when you first get in and start driving.
You won’t suddenly lose that from being parked overnight. |
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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago
local, but not too local |
Electric cars are the future, I don’t have one yet.
But modern fossil-fuelled cars are more efficient in cold weather because they run turbos and very clever ECUs. The cold, dense air has more oxygen molecules available in it, and is better compressed by the turbocharger because the resulting heat is more easily dissipated.
Cold is bad news for batteries, and you’re more likely to be running the heater - this requires lots of energy in an electric car, but in a fossil car it’s a “free” byproduct of the engine, just needing a fan to blow it.
All that said, when the supporting infrastructure in my area is good enough, I’ll probably go electric. Maybe with my next car, if not then the one after that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you're interested in how modern day electric vehicle's get the products to make the batteries I would suggest to listen/watch the Joe Rogan podcast on the cobalt mining in the Congo if this doesn't put you of electric vehicles |
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"I've got 2 electric cars and yes I lose range when the temperature drops
But I also have a fairly accurate range estimate readout.
Fossil fueled cars also lose range in cold weather but having a needle pointing on a scale and not a number of how far you have left till empty is very misleading
Articles in the press saying how terrible electric cars are and we're all being lied too are what sells, so please read them by all means but with a big pinch of salt. "
My car also gives me a really accurate mile count without being electric  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have an ev and yes the drop is significant from summer to winter. Some of it is due to the battery charging etc in colder weather but the biggest difference is the heating as it's just the same as using an electric heater at home. Over short journeys it makes a very big difference on a per mile basis but longer journeys not so much.
I get over 300 miles on a full charge in summer and about 250 in winter.
If range is a really big issue for you I'd still be waiting until some of the longer range cars come out, or get a Tesla with long range |
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One of the guys at work has an MG EV, he gave up trying to drive it in the snow.
Too much torque to get any grip.
They need a snow button to reduce the torque, if they don't have one already.
I can definitely see the advantages to EVs but do wonder if they are a long term solution or just a stop gap until sometime like hydrogen or some other technology take over. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of the guys at work has an MG EV, he gave up trying to drive it in the snow.
Too much torque to get any grip.
They need a snow button to reduce the torque, if they don't have one already.
I can definitely see the advantages to EVs but do wonder if they are a long term solution or just a stop gap until sometime like hydrogen or some other technology take over."
You are right, they aren’t a long term solution at all.
As nice as they are to live with and fun to drive they have major drawbacks - the biggest one being overall short life of the batteries and therefore the rest of the vehicle. You can’t save the planet by throwing things away. Recycling doesn’t go on forever either.
Hydrogen all the way. Either fuel cells or by a conventional engine running on hydrogen.
I’ll keep running a well made, very easy to work on, 17 year old Japanese car, that should be good for at least another 10 years. The carbon produced by manufacturing it and the emissions it produces should be far offset by its long lifespan.
A bit like aircraft - I’ve spent my career working on passenger aircraft that take you on holiday. You’ll be amazed how old they actually are in some cases 
Still working on aircraft for a major airline that has aircraft that are as old as me and I’m 35.
Built to last. It’s better in the long run. |
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There was a brilliant bit of rally motor cross filmed the other day.
A brand new 1070bhp ev rally car v an old rally audi quattro with a 75yr old ex world champion driving it. It was massively under powered compared to the electric car but still beat it.
That say says all I need to know about electric cars. They still aren't ready and still to many questions that aren't answered about them.
Like if uk went all electric how would the national grid cope?
If you live in a terraced house or flat no drive how you going to charge your car outside your house.
Apparently if America went all electric there isn't enough lithium in the world to supply just there market!
Electric might form part of the solution but it's definitely not the answer! |
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"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
Not 20 miles overnight they won’t. You should hardly notice any drop, unless something is waking the car up.
Lithium Ion Batteries are adversely effected by temperature, the chemical reactions that create the power are slower at lower temperatures reducing both the range and available current. Unused they would regain the "lost" power when the temperature rises, but any power consumed will be at the diminished rate meaning less power from your charge. The charge rate would also be reduced if its cold too.
On the flip side though, when the weather is warmer the effects are reversed. If it is hotter than average, you will get more range, more power and quick charging.
Cal
---------
Not while stationary overnight. The loss will be hardly anything. Don’t forget even EV’s have a 12v battery to keep things ticking over. When in use then yes, they don’t like cold temperatures. That’s why most people will pre-condition before departure. "
It's not actually a loss as such, it is a reduction in potential energy available due to the chemical/environmental conditions in the battery. If you park your car when the temperature is 30c and return to it when the temp is -10c there will be a significant difference in the estimated range displayed. If you don't drive anywhere and return to the car when the temperature has returned to 30c then the range would be the same as when you'd first parked it.
If you drive the car whilst it is -10c you will have "lost" the "potential" energy that was available when the vehicle was hot
Cal |
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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago
Chippenham Malmesbury area |
"A friend of mine has a Tesla she has found she looses approx 20 miles over night when it's cold
She must have sentry mode switched on, with a lot of activations. You won’t just lose 20 miles when the car is parked.
Batteries drain while sat doing nothing even when disconnected.
"
I don't know about modern batteries but many years ago, when I was living in snow holes and tents in the snow, in the artic, the cold was a real killer of batteries; they'd last 30% of the normal time and we had to keep them under our clothing so they'd stay warm. |
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"There was a brilliant bit of rally motor cross filmed the other day.
A brand new 1070bhp ev rally car v an old rally audi quattro with a 75yr old ex world champion driving it. It was massively under powered compared to the electric car but still beat it.
That say says all I need to know about electric cars. They still aren't ready and still to many questions that aren't answered about them.
Like if uk went all electric how would the national grid cope?
If you live in a terraced house or flat no drive how you going to charge your car outside your house.
Apparently if America went all electric there isn't enough lithium in the world to supply just there market!
Electric might form part of the solution but it's definitely not the answer!"
I'm not sure that a rally really represents a "good" real world test of how good a car is for everyday use. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There was a brilliant bit of rally motor cross filmed the other day.
A brand new 1070bhp ev rally car v an old rally audi quattro with a 75yr old ex world champion driving it. It was massively under powered compared to the electric car but still beat it.
That say says all I need to know about electric cars. They still aren't ready and still to many questions that aren't answered about them.
Like if uk went all electric how would the national grid cope?
If you live in a terraced house or flat no drive how you going to charge your car outside your house.
Apparently if America went all electric there isn't enough lithium in the world to supply just there market!
Electric might form part of the solution but it's definitely not the answer!"
Yes I saw that too! Race of Champions demonstration run.
The living legend that is Stig Blomqvist in an Audi Quattro S1!!!!!
Tbf it’s still got 550-600bhp and it’s a lot lighter but it’s a purely mechanical four wheel drive system. No torque vectoring like the electric car.
The legend that is the one true Stig made the difference. Sounded awesome doing it too! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a brilliant bit of rally motor cross filmed the other day.
A brand new 1070bhp ev rally car v an old rally audi quattro with a 75yr old ex world champion driving it. It was massively under powered compared to the electric car but still beat it.
That say says all I need to know about electric cars. They still aren't ready and still to many questions that aren't answered about them.
Like if uk went all electric how would the national grid cope?
If you live in a terraced house or flat no drive how you going to charge your car outside your house.
Apparently if America went all electric there isn't enough lithium in the world to supply just there market!
Electric might form part of the solution but it's definitely not the answer!"
True and after the recent weather. When you are stuck in your vehicle for days not everyone is convinced EVs are better. |
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"One of the guys at work has an MG EV, he gave up trying to drive it in the snow.
Too much torque to get any grip.
They need a snow button to reduce the torque, if they don't have one already.
I can definitely see the advantages to EVs but do wonder if they are a long term solution or just a stop gap until sometime like hydrogen or some other technology take over."
Remember MG is still rear weel drive |
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"There was a brilliant bit of rally motor cross filmed the other day.
A brand new 1070bhp ev rally car v an old rally audi quattro with a 75yr old ex world champion driving it. It was massively under powered compared to the electric car but still beat it.
That say says all I need to know about electric cars. They still aren't ready and still to many questions that aren't answered about them.
Like if uk went all electric how would the national grid cope?
If you live in a terraced house or flat no drive how you going to charge your car outside your house.
Apparently if America went all electric there isn't enough lithium in the world to supply just there market!
Electric might form part of the solution but it's definitely not the answer! True and after the recent weather. When you are stuck in your vehicle for days not everyone is convinced EVs are better."
For me Hybrid is the solution petrol electric but chare time of a 15kw battery is slow about 5 hours on the 13amp lead |
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By *lowingMan
over a year ago
Warrington |
"One of the guys at work has an MG EV, he gave up trying to drive it in the snow.
Too much torque to get any grip.
They need a snow button to reduce the torque, if they don't have one already.
I can definitely see the advantages to EVs but do wonder if they are a long term solution or just a stop gap until sometime like hydrogen or some other technology take over."
Nope, the energy density just isn’t there for Hydrogen powered cars to be mainstream. At this time, electric is the only realistic option… they will improve iver time |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"There was a brilliant bit of rally motor cross filmed the other day.
A brand new 1070bhp ev rally car v an old rally audi quattro with a 75yr old ex world champion driving it. It was massively under powered compared to the electric car but still beat it.
That say says all I need to know about electric cars. They still aren't ready and still to many questions that aren't answered about them.
Like if uk went all electric how would the national grid cope?
If you live in a terraced house or flat no drive how you going to charge your car outside your house.
Apparently if America went all electric there isn't enough lithium in the world to supply just there market!
Electric might form part of the solution but it's definitely not the answer!"
I just laughed because it is exactly the same argument that was used for mobile phones when they started using lithium ion batteries…. just remember that when you are using your Samsung or iPhone!!
And as for the how would we all cope.. a few things
1) a lot of petrol station space could be converted to high speed electric power points
2) most ev owners charge them overnight, when actually least power is being used on the grid
3) if you are getting let’s say close to 300 miles of range… how often are you needing to do a full charge anyway? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I suspect many will have views on electric cars before entering this thread...
The article is interesting, albeit I'm not sure it's typical from my experience.
I'd not recommend getting a leaf of you ever do long journies.
I've never heard a loss of 50pc range. Even a third when doing 70 feels high. And while I've lost maybe 30 miles with the weather that's not something you see every night, it's just a recalibration.
When doing long journies some planning is needed. I tend to have a few ideas of stops on the way and I look to check availability as I'm travelling (I stop more than I charge!)
I've only once turned up to a service and found it was broken. I drove ten miles down the road and found a charge on a nearby town. Ppl are addicted to services! It also allowed a better dog walk, plus a cheaper coffee!
What strikes me from this article is the ppl aren't used to charging away from home. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting article, I have my petrol driven A180 AMG until June, work are saying I will have to get an electric car, not looking forward to it tbh but then again, the Luddite Movement was massive around these parts back in the day |
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By *b72Man
over a year ago
Nottingham |
Ev's are perfect for those who bit and Bob about town or who are just not using much, for longer distances it becomes an issue as the charger network is rubish. But not as much an issue as the cost to buy, as a second hand car guy there isn't a hope in hell of me getting one |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My EV has a heat pump and therefore the range loss due to heating is very insignificant. Maybe a couple of % but very minimal.
In my case I charge to 80% every night from my drive. A couple of weeks ago with the snow and icy week we had, I charged to 95% not because of any range loss but in case I was trapped on a frozen road. I still drove my 120 daily commute to work 3 times that week.
Perfect handling on frozen roads. Never used a better awd car than this one.
|
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Electric cars are not environmentally friendly. The CO2 emissions for the mining of the metals and the production of the batteries produces huge CO2 levels and the manufacture of the cars too is high. All told a typical EV car produces 18T of CO2 before its gets to the showroom. At this level it's more environmentally friendly to run your ICE car for another 7 or 8 years as the emissions will be the same. Plus the cost of buying an EV is still quite high. |
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"I suspect many will have views on electric cars before entering this thread...
The article is interesting, albeit I'm not sure it's typical from my experience.
I'd not recommend getting a leaf of you ever do long journies.
I've never heard a loss of 50pc range. Even a third when doing 70 feels high. And while I've lost maybe 30 miles with the weather that's not something you see every night, it's just a recalibration.
When doing long journies some planning is needed. I tend to have a few ideas of stops on the way and I look to check availability as I'm travelling (I stop more than I charge!)
I've only once turned up to a service and found it was broken. I drove ten miles down the road and found a charge on a nearby town. Ppl are addicted to services! It also allowed a better dog walk, plus a cheaper coffee!
What strikes me from this article is the ppl aren't used to charging away from home. "
Am looking at a hybrid next year so can you explane charging away from home ?
I was thinking plug it in over night then good to go for my 16 hour day working |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I suspect many will have views on electric cars before entering this thread...
The article is interesting, albeit I'm not sure it's typical from my experience.
I'd not recommend getting a leaf of you ever do long journies.
I've never heard a loss of 50pc range. Even a third when doing 70 feels high. And while I've lost maybe 30 miles with the weather that's not something you see every night, it's just a recalibration.
When doing long journies some planning is needed. I tend to have a few ideas of stops on the way and I look to check availability as I'm travelling (I stop more than I charge!)
I've only once turned up to a service and found it was broken. I drove ten miles down the road and found a charge on a nearby town. Ppl are addicted to services! It also allowed a better dog walk, plus a cheaper coffee!
What strikes me from this article is the ppl aren't used to charging away from home.
Am looking at a hybrid next year so can you explane charging away from home ?
I was thinking plug it in over night then good to go for my 16 hour day working "
There are a multitude of chargers all over the country.. The cheapest seem to be in the lampposts in London, the most expensive are superfast chargers in service stations... And then there is everything in between.
I have a granny cable (three pin plug) as i haven't got around to installing a home charger yet.. I can plug in whenever I visit family /friends overnight who have an outdoor socket (i give them a tenner which gets me around 170 miles) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I suspect many will have views on electric cars before entering this thread...
The article is interesting, albeit I'm not sure it's typical from my experience.
I'd not recommend getting a leaf of you ever do long journies.
I've never heard a loss of 50pc range. Even a third when doing 70 feels high. And while I've lost maybe 30 miles with the weather that's not something you see every night, it's just a recalibration.
When doing long journies some planning is needed. I tend to have a few ideas of stops on the way and I look to check availability as I'm travelling (I stop more than I charge!)
I've only once turned up to a service and found it was broken. I drove ten miles down the road and found a charge on a nearby town. Ppl are addicted to services! It also allowed a better dog walk, plus a cheaper coffee!
What strikes me from this article is the ppl aren't used to charging away from home.
Am looking at a hybrid next year so can you explane charging away from home ?
I was thinking plug it in over night then good to go for my 16 hour day working "
there are apps that show you where charge points are, if they are working, being used and cost.
I tend to see if there is a charge point near where I'm going (then I can use a cheaper, slower one). Or have a few options on the journey.
I've also winged it, like I would a petrol, and stopped off at services. That's more of a gamble as some aren't great.
I've been driving an ev for close to a year now. I've done a few longer trips and have never had to queue or wait because Im charging. I have had to change plans, and I do use the charge time to grab a coffee, use the toilet, or walk the dog. But this is stuff I'd need to do when doing a three hour plus journey. |
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"Spotted an interesting article this morning.
Why Britain's electric dream is driving so many of us to distraction https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583677/Why-Britains-electric-dream-driving-distraction-One-motorist-reveals-how.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton"
A medium sized diesel car will idle in the snow for slightly longer than an equivalent ev.
You would just use the heater in an ev, but would have to run the engine to warm the coolant for the heater to work.
You can warm food on your exhaust manifold. Not possible in an ev.
Realistically it’s an insignificant difference until the AA arrive the next day with a gallon of diesel for your tank as you’ve run out, rather than waiting for them to recharge your ev enough to get you to the next charger that won’t be working.
I’ll stick to diesel for now as I need the high mile range.
When I can do 500 real world miles on a charge and refill in 5 mins I’ll change. As long as it’s not too expensive. |
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"I suspect many will have views on electric cars before entering this thread...
The article is interesting, albeit I'm not sure it's typical from my experience.
I'd not recommend getting a leaf of you ever do long journies.
I've never heard a loss of 50pc range. Even a third when doing 70 feels high. And while I've lost maybe 30 miles with the weather that's not something you see every night, it's just a recalibration.
When doing long journies some planning is needed. I tend to have a few ideas of stops on the way and I look to check availability as I'm travelling (I stop more than I charge!)
I've only once turned up to a service and found it was broken. I drove ten miles down the road and found a charge on a nearby town. Ppl are addicted to services! It also allowed a better dog walk, plus a cheaper coffee!
What strikes me from this article is the ppl aren't used to charging away from home.
Am looking at a hybrid next year so can you explane charging away from home ?
I was thinking plug it in over night then good to go for my 16 hour day working
There are a multitude of chargers all over the country.. The cheapest seem to be in the lampposts in London, the most expensive are superfast chargers in service stations... And then there is everything in between.
I have a granny cable (three pin plug) as i haven't got around to installing a home charger yet.. I can plug in whenever I visit family /friends overnight who have an outdoor socket (i give them a tenner which gets me around 170 miles)"
Thanks for that don't have lamp post chargers down my lane and I'm wary of home charging due to load we have had multiple power cuts this year apparently due to demand on the old cable down the lane. |
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