FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).

Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So! You want to be a girl

Move to Scotland, dress as a girl for 3 - 6 months and you can legally change your gender if you are 16 or older.

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

And yet a child of age 16 can legally change their gender.

Is this crazy or what?

The new rules, which are expected to come into force sometime next year, will lower the minimum age that people can apply for a GRC from 18 to 16.

They will also remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

And applicants will now only need to have lived in their acquired gender for three months - or six months if they are aged 16 and 17 - rather than two years.

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman over a year ago

Carlisle usually

Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?"

absolutely, especially if your son or daughter at age 16 decide to change gender without serious consideration or thought

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman over a year ago

Carlisle usually

A gender recognition certificate is not life changing surgery. If they change their mind again they only have to wait 6 months to switch it back. So why does it matter?

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By *tud8614Man over a year ago

south west

No but considering a rapist can legally change their gender using this law and then force their victim to use female (or male ) pro nouns during court proceedings is just ridiculous.

But then with the SNP why would any be surprised

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

a guy could use all female facilities

changing rooms

toilets

apply for a job as a female

they can be sent to a female prison rather than male prison

they can clean dishes

they can do ironing and other things that women do

but in all seriousness it has opened a can of worms through out the UK

someone from England can pop over the border for 3 months, change sex then back to England or where ever

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"No but considering a rapist can legally change their gender using this law and then force their victim to use female (or male ) pro nouns during court proceedings is just ridiculous.

But then with the SNP why would any be surprised "

The victims in such cases usually record their testimony in advance, and as they would be discussing the events from their point of view there'd be zero legal requirement to refer to the defendant as either him or her as long as it is made clear that they are referring to the person in question.

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By *ellhungvweMan over a year ago

Cheltenham

someone from England can pop over the border for 3 months, change sex then back to England or where ever

I don’t think that has been decided yet has it? There was a BBC article a couple of days ago which stated that the UK government may well decide to not recognise a Scottish GRC. Just because something is lawful in Scotland does not mean it is lawful in the rest of the UK.

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By *oldswarriorMan over a year ago

Falkirk

I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If I had a pound for every gender their is ....I'd have 2 pound

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By *idnight RamblerMan over a year ago

Pershore

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?"

How is that impinging on others?

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

I know this isn't the point of your thread. But parliaments don't send people to prison, courts do. People under 25 are sent to prison. A quick Google suggests 2 study recommended courts consider whether custodial sentences are suitable in sone crimes when the perpetrator is under 25 if immaturity is a factor.

But that's not the dramatic comparison you are seeking is it?

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"a guy could use all female facilities

changing rooms

toilets

apply for a job as a female

they can be sent to a female prison rather than male prison

If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?

absolutely, especially if your son or daughter at age 16 decide to change gender without serious consideration or thought"

I doubt very much if at all any person decided to take such a massively life affecting step without a huge amount of consideration and reflection on what they were thinking..

Of course a younger person may not discuss it with their parents or guardians at the very early stages, but they may well do with their peers or others they know who have been there or are going through it..

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Nothing in the OP bothers me at all.

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By *uninlondon69Man over a year ago

Tower Bridge South

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?"

It would have to be a privet school.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?

It would have to be a privet school. "

very good!

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?

It would have to be a privet school. "

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By *vilgasamWoman over a year ago

The dot in the i

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?

It would have to be a privet school. "

Kinda, we’re witches in the woods, anyone is welcome as long as they’re accepting

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By *iss E99TV/TS over a year ago

Near Taunton Somerset

"a guy could use all female facilities

changing rooms

toilets

apply for a job as a female

they can be sent to a female prison rather than male prison

they can clean dishes

they can do ironing and other things that women do

but in all seriousness it has opened a can of worms through out the UK

someone from England can pop over the border for 3 months, change sex then back to England or where ever

Someone who has changed gender or reassigned their gender which is the correct term as stated in the equality act can already do all that, this applies throughout the whole of the U.K. they don’t need to have a gender recognition certificate to do any of the things you’ve stated.

And Scottish GRCs will only apply to people born in Scotland if you educated yourself and done your home work you’d know this.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"No but considering a rapist can legally change their gender using this law and then force their victim to use female (or male ) pro nouns during court proceedings is just ridiculous."

They could always refer to their rapist as "the defendant", thus avoiding any gender switching problems.

If that's your only objection, I have to say that you're not making a compelling case

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

There are a million and one problems facing this country and the world and this is something that some people choose to get excited about.

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By *erces LetiferMan over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?"

What is wrong? Erm, plenty. Males, typically, are bigger and stronger than females. They are also, again typically, more violent than females. Some women are uncomfortable having to share vulnerable spaces like changing rooms and toilets with men. Understandably. Men are now taking opportunities and achievements from women in sports. Men are now entering women’s prisons and r*ping/impregnating them. Call me old fashioned, but I see plenty wrong with a society that has started to protect the feelings of men over the actual, physical safety of women.

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

"No but considering a rapist can legally change their gender using this law and then force their victim to use female (or male ) pro nouns during court proceedings is just ridiculous.

But then with the SNP why would any be surprised "

Has this happened? Or is this just a strawman argument?

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

"Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?

absolutely, especially if your son or daughter at age 16 decide to change gender without serious consideration or thought"

No one transitions without serious consideration or thought.

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By *espacito56Man over a year ago

Orkney

"So! You want to be a girl

Move to Scotland, dress as a girl for 3 - 6 months and you can legally change your gender if you are 16 or older.

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

And yet a child of age 16 can legally change their gender.

Is this crazy or what?

The new rules, which are expected to come into force sometime next year, will lower the minimum age that people can apply for a GRC from 18 to 16.

They will also remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

And applicants will now only need to have lived in their acquired gender for three months - or six months if they are aged 16 and 17 - rather than two years.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?

absolutely, especially if your son or daughter at age 16 decide to change gender without serious consideration or thought"

In what world would someone decide to change their gender without going through a process of agonising consideration?

Just because you can’t get your head around it, doesn’t mean the individual hasn’t thought it through.

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By *espacito56Man over a year ago

Orkney

"So! You want to be a girl

Move to Scotland, dress as a girl for 3 - 6 months and you can legally change your gender if you are 16 or older.

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

And yet a child of age 16 can legally change their gender.

Is this crazy or what?

The new rules, which are expected to come into force sometime next year, will lower the minimum age that people can apply for a GRC from 18 to 16.

They will also remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

And applicants will now only need to have lived in their acquired gender for three months - or six months if they are aged 16 and 17 - rather than two years.

Yes. Crazy. Totally fucking tonto.

2 genders. Cunt or balls. You are born one or the other.

Wishing doesn't make it so, otherwise I'd be taller and younger. With a bigger cock.

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"What is wrong? Erm, plenty. Males, typically, are bigger and stronger than females. They are also, again typically, more violent than females. Some women are uncomfortable having to share vulnerable spaces like changing rooms and toilets with men. Understandably. Men are now taking opportunities and achievements from women in sports. Men are now entering women’s prisons and r*ping/impregnating them. Call me old fashioned, but I see plenty wrong with a society that has started to protect the feelings of men over the actual, physical safety of women."

Only case I can find of female prisoners being impregnated by trans inmates on a quick search is listed as consensual.

I'm 6ft of natural woman and can hold my own, do I need to be separated from the daintier women for their own safety? What about small men? Because I'm physically stronger than most women do I not count as female any more?

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By *ts the taking part thatMan over a year ago

southampton

It's just a load of people who play pretend but demand others play pretend too.

You cannot change Gender, everyone knows that but people can pretend they can so let them be happy pretending but don't make laws that deny fact.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"It's just a load of people who play pretend but demand others play pretend too.

That's a pretty horrible thing to say.

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

"So! You want to be a girl

Move to Scotland, dress as a girl for 3 - 6 months and you can legally change your gender if you are 16 or older.

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

And yet a child of age 16 can legally change their gender.

Is this crazy or what?

The new rules, which are expected to come into force sometime next year, will lower the minimum age that people can apply for a GRC from 18 to 16.

They will also remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

And applicants will now only need to have lived in their acquired gender for three months - or six months if they are aged 16 and 17 - rather than two years.

Yes. Crazy. Totally fucking tonto.

2 genders. Cunt or balls. You are born one or the other.

Wishing doesn't make it so, otherwise I'd be taller and younger. With a bigger cock."

Gender and sex are different.

You are referring to physical attributes, which is sex.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sexuality is on a spectrum but is gender really on a similar spectrum? It is so closely linked to biological sex, which is on a binary and can never be changed, so it is hard for a lot of people to disconnect this link and add an unspecified amount of genders onto an ever changing list with no real physical standard. They could be defined as personality more than a separate gender.

We can all physically identify male or female with ease as it is obiective but identifying non binary is completely subjective and changeable.

These reasons are why so many people struggle with the concept. It's so easy to throw around the words bigot and transphobe but all it does is shut down reasonable dialogue.

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

"It's just a load of people who play pretend but demand others play pretend too.

You cannot change Gender, everyone knows that but people can pretend they can so let them be happy pretending but don't make laws that deny fact. "

Gender is not a physical characteristic. Of course you can change gender.

Just because you are happy with the gender you were born with, doesn't mean everyone is.

What's wrong if someone can change their gender to better represent who they are, to lead a happier and better life?

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By *espacito56Man over a year ago

Orkney

"So! You want to be a girl

Move to Scotland, dress as a girl for 3 - 6 months and you can legally change your gender if you are 16 or older.

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

And yet a child of age 16 can legally change their gender.

Is this crazy or what?

The new rules, which are expected to come into force sometime next year, will lower the minimum age that people can apply for a GRC from 18 to 16.

They will also remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

And applicants will now only need to have lived in their acquired gender for three months - or six months if they are aged 16 and 17 - rather than two years.

Yes. Crazy. Totally fucking tonto.

2 genders. Cunt or balls. You are born one or the other.

Wishing doesn't make it so, otherwise I'd be taller and younger. With a bigger cock.

Gender and sex are different.

You are referring to physical attributes, which is sex."

Disagree. Gender is physical. Sexual orientation is not.

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

Disagree. Gender is physical. Sexual orientation is not."

I am referring to biological sex, not sexual orientation.

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By *espacito56Man over a year ago

Orkney

Disagree. Gender is physical. Sexual orientation is not.

I am referring to biological sex, not sexual orientation."

Biological sex IS gender.

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

Disagree. Gender is physical. Sexual orientation is not.

I am referring to biological sex, not sexual orientation.

Biological sex IS gender."

Cambridge dictionary:

Gender: "a group of people in a society who share particular qualities or ways of behaving which that society associates with being male, female, or another identity".

Sex: "the physical state of being either male, female, or intersex"

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By *he Rocks666Couple over a year ago

Leeds

Ugh....Just look at all the transphobes

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

These reasons are why so many people struggle with the concept. It's so easy to throw around the words bigot and transphobe but all it does is shut down reasonable dialogue. "

As evidenced by this thread, there’s no-one with any ‘struggle’ over the concept of gender fluidity with anything reasonable worth listening to, so shutting them down is fine.

It’s the easiest thing in the world to be neither a bigot or a transphobe - but if you define yourself as ‘gender critical’, you are both.

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By *espacito56Man over a year ago

Orkney

Disagree. Gender is physical. Sexual orientation is not.

I am referring to biological sex, not sexual orientation.

Biological sex IS gender.

Cambridge dictionary:

Gender: "a group of people in a society who share particular qualities or ways of behaving which that society associates with being male, female, or another identity".

Sex: "the physical state of being either male, female, or intersex"

Beg to differ. Just my opinion, obviously, but I believe different terminology is required.

I think the term gender (previously a synonym for biological sex) has been subverted.

Gender role might be a better term.

You can be born male yet live the gender role of female.

In fact, if you're going to simply choose, there should be a whole suite of new words to clarify the gender roles assumed by persons going forward.

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By *ts the taking part thatMan over a year ago

southampton

"It's just a load of people who play pretend but demand others play pretend too.

That's a pretty horrible thing to say.

There you go, it's nicer to play pretend you'd say but the majority won't.

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By *ts the taking part thatMan over a year ago

southampton

"Ugh....Just look at all the transphobes"

Sticks & stones & made up words.

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By *uer MalusMan over a year ago

Narnia

Really don’t care what you identify as… what I care about is the expectation that I am then obligated to validate your choice or If I don’t then I am some how bullying or phobic.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Really don’t care what you identify as… what I care about is the expectation that I am then obligated to validate your choice or If I don’t then I am some how bullying or phobic.

What do yiu mean by validate it?

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?

Can yiu tell me of any instance where a MtF transgender person has been sent to a femalevprison, r#ped another prisoner and made them pregnant?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"Really don’t care what you identify as… what I care about is the expectation that I am then obligated to validate your choice or If I don’t then I am some how bullying or phobic.

I don't think it's asking that much that you treat someone with a bit of dignity.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?

Can yiu tell me of any instance where a MtF transgender person has been sent to a femalevprison, r#ped another prisoner and made them pregnant?"

ffs

Look for your own facts, or switch onto GB news right now as they are in full debate regarding this.

Channel 236.

How would you feel if 3 or 4 adult sex pests changed over and went into the same changing room as your teenage daughter?

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?

Can yiu tell me of any instance where a MtF transgender person has been sent to a femalevprison, r#ped another prisoner and made them pregnant?

ffs

Look for your own facts, or switch onto GB news right now as they are in full debate regarding this.

Channel 236.

How would you feel if 3 or 4 adult sex pests changed over and went into the same changing room as your teenage daughter?"

So soneone states something as fact and when asked to prove it I have to look for my own facts... okay

Again do you have any evidence that men claim to be trans just to access changing rooms?

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By *oldswarriorMan over a year ago

Falkirk

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?"

That will be her decision to make, not yours or anyone else's.

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By *he Rocks666Couple over a year ago

Leeds

So soneone states something as fact and when asked to prove it I have to look for my own facts... okay

Again do you have any evidence that men claim to be trans just to access changing rooms?

He read it in The S*n or Daily Mail or watched it on Gammon Bigot News channel 236 obvs?

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By *tsJustKateWoman over a year ago

London

"If I had a pound for every gender their is ....I'd have 2 pound"

Haha exactly!!

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By *tsJustKateWoman over a year ago

London

I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a bit of paper that could mean the world to someone and changes practically nothing for anyone else. Gender neutral bathrooms are becoming more and more normal these days, changing rooms have cubicles etc etc. My 10 year old has zero issue with understanding and respecting pronouns because it's all very normal to her generation. Biological sex is a different thing from gender - that we just made up and attached lots of boy/girl names, traits, jobs, which loo we can use. If someone doesn't want to be in the box society has put them in, why shouldn't they have freedom to choose?

I only know a couple of transgender girls, so they're my main frame of reference and my heart breaks for them when all the talk is of very extreme possibilities for how someone could abuse the laws, when they're the sweetest girls who wouldn't say boo to a goose and just want to go about their lives in peace.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!"

Why not?

So say a relative of yours or a neighbour was transgender, why wouldn't you recognise it?

What would yiu gain by not recognising it and how would that compare to the impact your actions may have on them?

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By *ary_ArgyllMan over a year ago

Argyll

Disagree. Gender is physical. Sexual orientation is not.

I am referring to biological sex, not sexual orientation.

Biological sex IS gender."

No it's not, gender is socially constructed, sex is biological. The two words refer to different aspects.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

0000001111110000000110001111 says, leave him out of it

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"So! You want to be a girl

Move to Scotland, dress as a girl for 3 - 6 months and you can legally change your gender if you are 16 or older.

In Scotland the parliament will not send a young person under the age of 25 to jail when they commit a crime because they say the brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age.

And yet a child of age 16 can legally change their gender.

Is this crazy or what?

The new rules, which are expected to come into force sometime next year, will lower the minimum age that people can apply for a GRC from 18 to 16.

They will also remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

And applicants will now only need to have lived in their acquired gender for three months - or six months if they are aged 16 and 17 - rather than two years.

Yes. Crazy. Totally fucking tonto.

2 genders. Cunt or balls. You are born one or the other.

Wishing doesn't make it so, otherwise I'd be taller and younger. With a bigger cock."

Posts like this show such a poor grasp of some simple basics, that the whole discussion is merely an exercise in futility.

This is a great step by Scotland

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Really don’t care what you identify as… what I care about is the expectation that I am then obligated to validate your choice or If I don’t then I am some how bullying or phobic.

I mean, we do with most things.

If someone says their name is Paul, you tend not to insist that they look like a Mark and call them Mark. Even if they changed their name to Paul, from Mark.

The person who keeps calling Paul, Mark, is a douchebag.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah, the SNP, home of famous women's rights champion Alec Salmond.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?

Can yiu tell me of any instance where a MtF transgender person has been sent to a femalevprison, r#ped another prisoner and made them pregnant?

ffs

Look for your own facts, or switch onto GB news right now as they are in full debate regarding this.

Channel 236.

How would you feel if 3 or 4 adult sex pests changed over and went into the same changing room as your teenage daughter?"

I label this as "yet more shit that never actually happens".

If you want to find actual adult sex pests, then go look at the gender called "men". Because every "concern" you have is about men. Manly men. Not about individuals who have gone through an arduous process to get themselves on a handy registration list of people who have thought very deeply about their gender and put themselves at great risk of persecution and assault from fuckwits filled with hate.

At least use some slight amount of intelligence! What kind of dumb shit wannabe sex pest would actually spend anything from six months (Scottish proposal) to five years (English current actual) of working through a humiliating legal process - which involves amongst other things telling all your family, your employer, your neighbours, your bank, your friends, that you are transgender - in order to walk into a ladies toilet? When all that any man actually needs is a "cleaner" badge and a bucket and mop?

If you want to find real perverts that perform gender attacks, m0lestation, persecution, verbal and physical assault, incitement to violence, and all round nasty bastard stuff - it's pretty well anyone that labels themselves as "gender critical".

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah, the SNP, home of famous women's rights champion Alec Salmond.

Alex Salmond is very much persona non grata with the SNP these days, defo not his home.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!"

That's not very nice.

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By *hegirlwiththepeachtattooWoman over a year ago

"Ugh....Just look at all the transphobes"

My thoughts exactly. I’m not au fait with every aspect of fab rules but I’d really hoped such rampant bigotry would be against them.

Sending hugs to any trans people reading this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why has there been no discussion here about women who want to identify as men? It must, surely, be both ways around?

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By *oxy jWoman over a year ago

somerset

ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Why has there been no discussion here about women who want to identify as men? It must, surely, be both ways around? "

It is. Trans men absolutely exist.

It rarely comes up in the culture wars though. Except when discussing cervical and pregnancy care.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

There is a guy ( has a wi ly ) in a prison but dresses as a female and identifies as a female and has now requested that they are only restrained by female officers. So s stronger Man can over power the people reststraing them.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

"ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first"

So as Fluid would you be happy if needed for them to go in to a male prison.

As far as I know at the moment the prison service is still men and women so one or the other.

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By *oxy jWoman over a year ago

somerset

"ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first

So as Fluid would you be happy if needed for them to go in to a male prison.

As far as I know at the moment the prison service is still men and women so one or the other."

as ive said ive not read what has been done in scotland as yet

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Most social issues just distract people from what they should be actually concerned about. Imagine if people put the same energy until scrutinising public spending and conflicts of interest in government...

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

"If I had a pound for every gender their is ....I'd have 2 pound"

It's not a simple as that, or are you a knob ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Most social issues just distract people from what they should be actually concerned about. Imagine if people put the same energy until scrutinising public spending and conflicts of interest in government..."

*Into

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta."

We do it's called the Equality Act.

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!"

Just........durrrrrrr

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

If this is so dangerous, how come many other countries such as Ireland, Portugal, Argentina have had basically this same system for years with zero evidence of it causing problems?

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

"It's a bit of paper that could mean the world to someone and changes practically nothing for anyone else. Gender neutral bathrooms are becoming more and more normal these days, changing rooms have cubicles etc etc. My 10 year old has zero issue with understanding and respecting pronouns because it's all very normal to her generation. Biological sex is a different thing from gender - that we just made up and attached lots of boy/girl names, traits, jobs, which loo we can use. If someone doesn't want to be in the box society has put them in, why shouldn't they have freedom to choose?

Thank you, you so get it, and your 10 year old will be just fine.......

So many dinosaurs, even in this community....

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act."

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

This was the topic of conversation at work this afternoon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If I had a pound for every gender their is ....I'd have 2 pound"

This made me

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

So should we have gender neutral hospital wards? Might save money.

And gender neutral prisons including sex afenders in the same wings and same prison. Might reduce crime.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?"

Of course not. But scrutinising public spending and conflicts of interest in government would benefit *everyone*. Including those in minority groups. Imagine if the money that was pissed away on an ineffective track and trace app, HS2 and smart motorways (and more) was spent improving deprived areas, giving disadvantaged minorities more opportunities and services and perhaps even improving the services for trans people on the NHS?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing."

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

Personally, apart from being entirely against bigotry, I'm aware of the use of minority groups to facilitate the rise of authoritarianism and fascism (well documented in the literature) - it's likely that abandoning social issues like these would have knock on effects.

If you don't want to talk about social issues, though, then it's a free country, do as you please. Any banner that doesn't prioritise the wellbeing of trans people, though, I might have to use as bog roll before I set it on fire

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So should we have gender neutral hospital wards? Might save money.

And gender neutral prisons including sex afenders in the same wings and same prison. Might reduce crime.

Why not hospital wards? Prisons I can see an issue and that needs worked out. Overturning our perceptions of gender and how society is structured around it is gonna take some work. Do we just not do things because they're a bit of effort? How do we ever progress then?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So should we have gender neutral hospital wards? Might save money.

And gender neutral prisons including sex afenders in the same wings and same prison. Might reduce crime.

I've been in mixed hospital wards (in Australia). It's not even remotely a big deal.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

So you say "Prioritise the wellbeing of trans people" as if its more important than any other minority group should we not all be treated equally. Or is that to ideal.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

So should we have gender neutral hospital wards? Might save money.

And gender neutral prisons including sex afenders in the same wings and same prison. Might reduce crime.

I've been in mixed hospital wards (in Australia). It's not even remotely a big deal."

What the ward or the unit generally the unit is made up of wards male female the unit is say ENT so you would be OK in a ward on a hot day if all 6/8 had very little on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

Don't recall saying I was 'against' social issues and was more making the point that the time and energy would be better spent elsewhere whereby a side-effect would be the improvement of social issues (I.e. scrutinising public spending). Somehow I think if the government didn't waste so much money, stopped giving their mates ludicrous contracts and put more money into everyone's pockets and public services then social issues would naturally improve.

Tit-bit legislation like this doesn't cost anything. Which is why governments are quite happy to let us fight among ourselves about it and then legislate once it gets to the point it would attract votes.

Same team as you, different philosophy on solving the problem. That's all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So should we have gender neutral hospital wards? Might save money.

And gender neutral prisons including sex afenders in the same wings and same prison. Might reduce crime.

I've been in mixed hospital wards (in Australia). It's not even remotely a big deal."

I can't see an issue either. In fact, I think there'd prob be better care. My sister works in a hospital and sometimes they'll have a packed mens ward and few women, or vice versa, and the staffing can be quite disproportionate. It's a good example though of a knee-jerk 'no this is the way it has to be' reaction that when you actually think about, doesn't NEED to be at all.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

So you say "Prioritise the wellbeing of trans people" as if its more important than any other minority group should we not all be treated equally. Or is that to ideal."

I didn't say to the exclusion of others.

Equally or equity might be a nice idea. We won't get there if the fascist rhetoric around trans people continues, though. Indeed it's corrosive to other areas of progress.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"I don't see what the issue is.

It's only an option to change paperwork.

My daughter is nearing 16, if she wants to identify as a tree, so be it.

Yes, so be it as far as she's concerned. But what about when it impinges on others. What if she only wants to attend a school for trees? Or wants pruning on the NHS?

It would have to be a privet school. "

Just hedging their bets

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

Queensland Hospital patients report embarrassment and awkwardness of sharing a hospital ward with the opposite sex has defended its use of mixed gender hospital wards, saying the pressure for beds sometimes means it is unavoidable, according to an article on the Warwick Daily News website.

A reader contacted the Daily News after recently being placed in a ward with both men and women at Toowoomba Hospital and speaking of the embarrassment and awkwardness of sharing a hospital ward with the opposite sex, according to the article.

Readers who commented on the newspaper's Facebook page offered mixed views, with most saying that male and female patients should be separate, especially the elderly and those in psychiatric care, according to the Daily News.

According to the article, many female readers spoke of similar embarrassment during hospital stays in wards with male patients, as well as concern about the possibility of inappropriate sexual behavior.

Warwick Hospital acting director of nursing Janet Reid said it was "uncommon" for their patients to be placed in wards with mixed genders, but it does occur when both men and women present to hospital with a common, contagious condition.

Toowoomba Hospital and Medical Services acting executive director Dr Hwee Sin Chong said that patients and their families were encouraged to raise any concerns they have while receiving care with staff members.

"All efforts are made to separate males and females, however this can be difficult when the pressure for beds is high," Chong said in the article.

Women admitted to psychiatry wards experience high levels of violence and sexual assaults, according to a report released last May by the Victorian Mental Illness Alliance Council.

The report showed that across nine psychiatry wards surveyed in Victoria, 85% of female inpatients felt unsafe, 67% reported experiencing sexual or other forms of harassment and 45% of respondents had experienced sexual assault during an in-patient admission

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

Same team as you, different philosophy on solving the problem. That's all."

I'm inclined to think there's a powerful movement in the offing using trans people (and others) as scapegoats to push authoritarianism. Lots of literature on the subject.

I can also walk and chew gum - my musings on Fab are not my only thoughts on politics and what should be done in that vein. (On Fab, I think discussing the social issues is more pertinent)

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first

So as Fluid would you be happy if needed for them to go in to a male prison.

As far as I know at the moment the prison service is still men and women so one or the other."

The prison system in the UK already has in place, and did so previous to there being any transgender prisoners, rules such that an individual should be assessed and placed within either the male or the female estate according to more than just simple gender.

It is quite possible for a female violent offender to be deemed too dangerous to be housed with other women, and be held in a male prison.

It is also possible for a feminine looking male who does not have a gender recognition certificate to be placed in the female estate if it is judged that this would be the only way their safety could be assured.

In the vast majority of cases, it is the transgender prisoner who is attacked by males or females, rather than the other way around. I personally know a transwoman who served time within a male prison, years ago before gender recognition was considered. She was basically used as a sex plaything by stronger male prisoners, and was r@ped several hundred times over five years. She only survived because she did not make any report to the prison guards, attempting to accuse her attackers would only have gotten her killed. This is the reality of what can happen to transwomen if put in male prisons.

[For the benefit of all those who will now say "she committed a crime, she deserved everything" - she admits she committed a crime, she agrees the length of sentence was fair for the crime. However someone who looks female should not have been just dumped among violent male offenders. As she told me though - "the first couple of dozen times are the worst, after that you just have to try to survive".

]

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By *ovingSussexLifeMan over a year ago

West Sussex

"ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first

So as Fluid would you be happy if needed for them to go in to a male prison.

As far as I know at the moment the prison service is still men and women so one or the other.

It is quite possible for a female violent offender to be deemed too dangerous to be housed with other women, and be held in a male prison.

Thats terrible. No one should have to go through that

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

Same team as you, different philosophy on solving the problem. That's all.

I'm inclined to think there's a powerful movement in the offing using trans people (and others) as scapegoats to push authoritarianism. Lots of literature on the subject.

I can also walk and chew gum - my musings on Fab are not my only thoughts on politics and what should be done in that vein. (On Fab, I think discussing the social issues is more pertinent)"

Which is precisely why I feel government scrutiny is a higher priority...

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

In the vast majority of cases, it is the transgender prisoner who is attacked by males or females, rather than the other way around.

This is the thing that's always obscured in these discussions. That trans people are overwhelmingly the victims rather than the perpetrators of crime.

So let's shit on them more? Ffs

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So we shouldn't be concerned about ensuring that a minority group are safe and protected under the law?

No ta.

We do it's called the Equality Act.

So you think the many questions are solved? That nothing further needs to be discussed?

That's... ummm... naive?

But no, rather than uniting under one banner to improve the way government is run we waste our time worrying about what bathrooms people can use. People in the top 1% must be absolutely creasing.

Wouldn't spending money in deprived areas involve scrutiny of social issues? Which is what you claim to be against? How else would you decide how to effectively allocate funds?

Same team as you, different philosophy on solving the problem. That's all.

I'm inclined to think there's a powerful movement in the offing using trans people (and others) as scapegoats to push authoritarianism. Lots of literature on the subject.

I can also walk and chew gum - my musings on Fab are not my only thoughts on politics and what should be done in that vein. (On Fab, I think discussing the social issues is more pertinent)

Which is precisely why I feel government scrutiny is a higher priority..."

You're most welcome to have those conversations on the forum if you like. On this thread about trans people, I'll discuss trans people.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

"ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first

So as Fluid would you be happy if needed for them to go in to a male prison.

As far as I know at the moment the prison service is still men and women so one or the other.

It is quite possible for a female violent offender to be deemed too dangerous to be housed with other women, and be held in a male prison.

]

Thats terrible. No one should have to go through that

Sorry about you friend the wife worked on a mental health wing so see this sort of thing as a nurse. And is quiting in the new year as the trans population in custody is such a problem. And in a male prison she has to call them Mr Or Miss.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

"ive not read anything thru yet but im all for queer right's ands trans rights 2 of my kid identify as fluid ..

but ive just seen on the shy news that Westminster are going to challenge it and null the new law ...

before you condem the used of the word queer do your home work first

So as Fluid would you be happy if needed for them to go in to a male prison.

As far as I know at the moment the prison service is still men and women so one or the other.

It is quite possible for a female violent offender to be deemed too dangerous to be housed with other women, and be held in a male prison.

]

Thats terrible. No one should have to go through that

But if your a 6' 6' strong female you could also end up in a male prison.

Or you might decide to Trans in custody, in the hope of moving to a female prison yes it has happened !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You're most welcome to have those conversations on the forum if you like. On this thread about trans people, I'll discuss trans people. "

Interesting, I thought this thread was about a piece of legislation. Forgive me for thinking that has anything to do with the way in which the government operates as a means of collecting votes rather than spending money wisely...

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

You're most welcome to have those conversations on the forum if you like. On this thread about trans people, I'll discuss trans people.

We've obviously read very different threads.

Our views are irreconcilable and I'll spend no further time derailing the thread with this tangent

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You're most welcome to have those conversations on the forum if you like. On this thread about trans people, I'll discuss trans people.

We've obviously read very different threads.

Our views are irreconcilable and I'll spend no further time derailing the thread with this tangent "

A deflection Emi Martinez would be proud of.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

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By *instonandLadyAstorCouple over a year ago

Not where we seem to be...

"Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?

absolutely, especially if your son or daughter at age 16 decide to change gender without serious consideration or thought"

If my son or daughter decided to change gender at 16 I'd be asking questions, ensuring they were making the right decision for them, that they fully understood the short and long term implications.

I'd listen to their views and thought processes.

Once I'd understood them, they'd get my 100% support, my love for them as my children would be unwavering.

This decision is about them, not me.

Winston

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By *r Discreet 75Man over a year ago

LIVERPOOL

Every human starts life as female then some change to male in the womb I genuinely think something doesn't fully develop whether it's hormones genes or psychological that makes a man feel like they're still a woman... its quite rare less than 1% of the population but its even more rare for a woman to change to a man ... it takes a brave person to choose I wouldn't like to go through it ... I can just about make up my mind about what I want for dinner never mind making life-changing decisions

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By *penminded1979Man over a year ago

Leicester

Instead of getting yourself het up about something based on a list of things that 'could' (but haven't) happened, why not get on with doing something you enjoy and leave others to live their lives as they wish?

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By *idnight RamblerMan over a year ago

Pershore

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!"

It's a fair point. People have an equal right to reject or accept changes to society norms.

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By *ts the taking part thatMan over a year ago

southampton

"Instead of getting yourself het up about something based on a list of things that 'could' (but haven't) happened, why not get on with doing something you enjoy and leave others to live their lives as they wish?"

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay.

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By *ellinever70Woman over a year ago

Ayrshire

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay."

Imagine if as a society, we had taken that stance with race

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today. "

Fair point Sophie.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!

It's a fair point. People have an equal right to reject or accept changes to society norms."

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay.

Imagine if as a society, we had taken that stance with race "

It's not the same comparison though. A black person is a black person because of their physical and observable genetics. They don't have to change any aspect of themselves, they just are.

A trans woman can have treatment and surgery to appear and feel like a woman but will never be able to physically transform into a fully functioning biological woman.

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By *ewBiAdventuresCouple over a year ago

Warwick

I couldn't resist reading this one. Now very much wishing I hadn't. I just wanted to say that if anyone out there has read this and felt upset by it in the same way then please do reach out, my inbox is open.

Amy x

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay."

This attitude is frankly abhorrent and ignorant, whilst insulting to those of us who deserve equality and respect. Society prospers from being inclusive, compassionate and affording others basic human rights, to live as equals.

This simple legal change is a good next-step for the UK.

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By *ellinever70Woman over a year ago

Ayrshire

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay.

Imagine if as a society, we had taken that stance with race

It's not the same comparison though. A black person is a black person because of their physical and observable genetics. They don't have to change any aspect of themselves, they just are.

A trans woman can have treatment and surgery to appear and feel like a woman but will never be able to physically transform into a fully functioning biological woman. "

No, it's not the same. But I think there are parallels to draw in terms of rights

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay.

Imagine if as a society, we had taken that stance with race

It's not the same comparison though. A black person is a black person because of their physical and observable genetics. They don't have to change any aspect of themselves, they just are.

A trans woman can have treatment and surgery to appear and feel like a woman but will never be able to physically transform into a fully functioning biological woman. "

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie. "

The uglier side of society, individuals who will prey on others, asserting their power for sexual gratification, won't be needing any legal changes, to go out and pester others. They do this today and will continue.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Its probably right that the process of transitioning should be made easier but I certainly do not agree with lowering the age to 16 particularly with the removal of the need to have a diagnosis of Gender Disphoria.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay.

Imagine if as a society, we had taken that stance with race

It's not the same comparison though. A black person is a black person because of their physical and observable genetics. They don't have to change any aspect of themselves, they just are.

A trans woman can have treatment and surgery to appear and feel like a woman but will never be able to physically transform into a fully functioning biological woman. "

That's why we, as a decent society, afford others the basic, common decency to achieve their simple needs to be as fully themselves, without undue restrictions and hurtful prejudice, preventing them from getting the freedom and equality, that most of us take for granted, without having to do anything to what is frankly, just living.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

However I think there is still an issue of predatory men (not trans women. *Men*) who will abuse the situation and claim to be female so they can enter women only spaces. Such as DV shelters or swimming sessions etc. And that is what some people are concerned about.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

What specifically troubles you, about the changes being made to support 16 and 17 year olds?

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By *penminded1979Man over a year ago

Leicester

We are not a mean society and no one cares if you wish to live you life pretending to be a different gender, above everything this is about women.

Only born women can take that identification but the trans community are demanding to adopt it. This will never be acceptable to the majority of society, never.

So the trans community need to be realistic in taking a different identification. A dog can't be a horse even if it's eats hay."

But yet it's mainly red faced old men and their male offspring complaining, not women. It's almost at if these people constantly complain about people different to them. Go take your nonsense somewhere where it's wanted.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?

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By *ommodoCouple over a year ago

OX16

The Scottish have been wearing kilts for years so why all of a sudden is it a problem if they want to be called a girl Jimmy cranked wanted to dress as a man is wee Nicola sturgen really a man

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

What specifically troubles you, about the changes being made to support 16 and 17 year olds? "

Specifically, the combination of the lowering of the age to 16 with the removal of the medical diagnosis.

Provide support to 16 and 17 year olds by all means (and other age groups). Perhaps maintain the requirement for a medical diagnosis for under 18s, that way they will have the proper conversations with the right people before making this life changing decision.

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By *onnie 90Woman over a year ago

Leeds

"a guy could use all female facilities

changing rooms

toilets

apply for a job as a female

they can be sent to a female prison rather than male prison

There will be some guys out there who have ulterior motives. There are some very shady characters out there who would just love to have legal access to female facilities.

If someone identifies as a female whst is wrong with them using female facilities or toilets or applying for a job as their chosen gender? Or being sent to a female prison?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?"

Indeed. I can't speak to all sex segregated places, but no one's ever checked my ID or (as has been suggested in some instances!) examined my genitals* before allowing me access to the toilet or changing rooms.

* I have surgical scarring on my lower abdomen. Does this make me not a "real" girl?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

What specifically troubles you, about the changes being made to support 16 and 17 year olds?

Specifically, the combination of the lowering of the age to 16 with the removal of the medical diagnosis.

What will this law enable that you don't approve of, though?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?

* I have surgical scarring on my lower abdomen. Does this make me not a "real" girl? "

This consternation that some have, seems like a fabricated issue, that ignores the fact that predatory sex pests will do whatever they want to, regardless of any legal support for equality.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?

* I have surgical scarring on my lower abdomen. Does this make me not a "real" girl?

This consternation that some have, seems like a fabricated issue, that ignores the fact that predatory sex pests will do whatever they want to, regardless of any legal support for equality. "

Exactly. No predatory man is going to think that this is a gateway in to abuse. It may, and it's a big may, open up an opportunity to a predatory mam but they'd be looking at ways to abuse and attack women without thos legislation

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?

* I have surgical scarring on my lower abdomen. Does this make me not a "real" girl?

This consternation that some have, seems like a fabricated issue, that ignores the fact that predatory sex pests will do whatever they want to, regardless of any legal support for equality. "

Indeed.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?

* I have surgical scarring on my lower abdomen. Does this make me not a "real" girl?

This consternation that some have, seems like a fabricated issue, that ignores the fact that predatory sex pests will do whatever they want to, regardless of any legal support for equality.

And meanwhile - requiring ID to pee, or giving people physical exams has been suggested.

I have surgical scarring on my abdomen (because my reproductive system is a hellbeast and I needed emergency surgery). Would the genital examiner at the loo wonder if that made me secretly a man and deny my right to pee?

Also are we only examining people who are clearly over 18 or are we subjecting children to unnecessary examination of private parts?

Also what will this do to retraumatise victims of violence?

Why can't we just let people pee?

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By *tsJustKateWoman over a year ago

London

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!

That's not very nice. "

If they have a right to identify as a tree then surely I have a right to ignore it!

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By *tsJustKateWoman over a year ago

London

"I don't care what people wish to identify as, I won't recognise it anyway!!

It's a fair point. People have an equal right to reject or accept changes to society norms."

This!

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By *izzmasterzeroMan over a year ago

Aberdeen

Who remembers that guy who died a few years ago who got his body tattooed like a cat, his upper lip split with cheek and nose surgery to look like a cat, he even had his teeth sharpened, ears shaped and whisker implants... He identified as a cat... Do people seriously think he was an actual real cat the same way we are being forced to believe trans men and women are real men and women? You don't even have to do anything to change genders now, I'll keep my name I'll keep my beard I'll keep my cock and balls I won't change a single thing about myself, my appearance or my life but from now on you must believe I am a real woman otherwise you are a piece of shit biggot.

The world continues to make sense.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"Whoever thinks sex pests aren't just going to do what they want, any differently to whether this good new law exists, most probably has shit for brains.

Pests will pester and offend, as they can today.

Fair point Sophie.

They do and will.

I'm guessing that such predatory men will do this, without taking the months long steps, to try to get access to such spaces?

* I have surgical scarring on my lower abdomen. Does this make me not a "real" girl?

This consternation that some have, seems like a fabricated issue, that ignores the fact that predatory sex pests will do whatever they want to, regardless of any legal support for equality.

And meanwhile - requiring ID to pee, or giving people physical exams has been suggested.

Also are we only examining people who are clearly over 18 or are we subjecting children to unnecessary examination of private parts?

Also what will this do to retraumatise victims of violence?

Why can't we just let people pee?"

Just read in one of the rags that Westminster is set to block the controversial law as they call it.

Sounds like a clear cut case of pee blocking…

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

"Who remembers that guy who died a few years ago who got his body tattooed like a cat, his upper lip split with cheek and nose surgery to look like a cat, he even had his teeth sharpened, ears shaped and whisker implants... He identified as a cat... Do people seriously think he was an actual real cat the same way we are being forced to believe trans men and women are real men and women? You don't even have to do anything to change genders now, I'll keep my name I'll keep my beard I'll keep my cock and balls I won't change a single thing about myself, my appearance or my life but from now on you must believe I am a real woman otherwise you are a piece of shit biggot.

The world continues to make sense."

This post isn't as clever as you think it is.

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Do you know what the average waiting time is for the gender service?

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple over a year ago

chester

The world continues to make sense."

You don’t have to believe it, if it makes the person happy and content with themselves, it’s all fine.

It doesn’t affect me but I can empathise with someone who goes through such a huge life changing process.

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By *instonandLadyAstorCouple over a year ago

Not where we seem to be...

Imagine being troubled/offended/outraged at something that doesn't affect you in any way, but makes life a little more worth living for a significant number of people.

What a time to be alive.

Be kind, just, simply, be kind......

Winston

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

The world continues to make sense."

Leaving aside the entirely pointless cat thing, you don't actually have to believe anyone is anything if you don't want to.

All you have to do is leave people alone to live their lives and not insult or bully them or interfere with their hard won rights.

I reckon you can manage that?

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By *astlincscoupleCouple over a year ago

Tinsel Town

Lol the spluttering gammon's are rife in this post.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If only piers was still on gmb..... Firework interview

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The world continues to make sense.

Leaving aside the entirely pointless cat thing, you don't actually have to believe anyone is anything if you don't want to.

All you have to do is leave people alone to live their lives and not insult or bully them or interfere with their hard won rights.

I reckon you can manage that? "

Pretty much

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s very rare for me to comment on these kinds of threads as it can really degenerate quickly and can have a massive impact on my own mental health.

All I wanted to say this time was a big thank you to all those who are saying the most important thing, “be nice”.

I truly don’t care if you think I or others like me are a woman or not, all I ask is that you be nice about it.

That can’t be too much to ask can it ?

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

Time will tell if this the right way forward or not.

It has many possibilities some ending well, others not so.

I can certainly see a court case from a person who in the future feels they were not properly protected as a child, allowing them to make a wrong decision that is now causing them issues.

I can also see it working well for a minority.

I do think the process needs to be monitored closely and if it turns out not to be working as expected, stopped immediately and not allowed to carry on purely to protect the decision and those that made it.

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By *izzmasterzeroMan over a year ago

Aberdeen

The world continues to make sense.

Leaving aside the entirely pointless cat thing, you don't actually have to believe anyone is anything if you don't want to.

All you have to do is leave people alone to live their lives and not insult or bully them or interfere with their hard won rights.

I reckon you can manage that? "

Your right, I dont believe in any of the nonsense things people pretend to be but I do accept it, I'm friends with and related to several trans people who I have zero problems with, I refer to them how they choose and treat them with respect and how they want to be treated and for the most part none of it affects me and my life in the slightest... My problem is reality, we are allowing people to go around doing whatever they want pretending to be anything they can think of and often changing it up as they see fit and we just allow it because it's polite, how can we function as a society and set rules and laws when people are taking the piss like the whole trans in sports or jail or bathroom debate where safety is an issue. There's a girl in an American school that identifies a a cat, she's been given her own toilet with a litter tray... what if she gets ill do they send her to the vet? Is she going to grow and mentally develop correctly if they continue to allow her to act this way, at what point does it become a concern for her wellbeing?

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By *ity_BoyMan over a year ago

London

The world continues to make sense.

Leaving aside the entirely pointless cat thing, you don't actually have to believe anyone is anything if you don't want to.

All you have to do is leave people alone to live their lives and not insult or bully them or interfere with their hard won rights.

I reckon you can manage that?

Big "I'm not racist because I have black friends" energy here.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

The world continues to make sense.

Leaving aside the entirely pointless cat thing, you don't actually have to believe anyone is anything if you don't want to.

All you have to do is leave people alone to live their lives and not insult or bully them or interfere with their hard won rights.

I reckon you can manage that?

Big "I'm not racist because I have black friends" energy here."

I don't see that at all. Its just someone with a different opinion. Which is allowed without being called out and disparaged.

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By *izzmasterzeroMan over a year ago

Aberdeen

The world continues to make sense.

Leaving aside the entirely pointless cat thing, you don't actually have to believe anyone is anything if you don't want to.

All you have to do is leave people alone to live their lives and not insult or bully them or interfere with their hard won rights.

I reckon you can manage that?

Big "I'm not racist because I have black friends" energy here."

Yeah ok, I respect your opinion

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It’s very rare for me to comment on these kinds of threads as it can really degenerate quickly and can have a massive impact on my own mental health.

All I wanted to say this time was a big thank you to all those who are saying the most important thing, “be nice”.

I truly don’t care if you think I or others like me are a woman or not, all I ask is that you be nice about it.

That can’t be too much to ask can it ? "

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

"I couldn't resist reading this one. Now very much wishing I hadn't. I just wanted to say that if anyone out there has read this and felt upset by it in the same way then please do reach out, my inbox is open.

Amy x

Agreed there are some nasty people out there who simply don't understand.......

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By *eneralKenobiMan over a year ago

North Angus

[Removed by poster at 23/12/22 11:02:42]

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

The world continues to make sense.

This post isn't as clever as you think it is."

With some you have to feel sorry for them and their thoughts, quite thick really.....

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Do you know what the average waiting time is for the gender service?"

He wouldn't know, he's a classic transphobe and doesn't even know it......

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

"It’s very rare for me to comment on these kinds of threads as it can really degenerate quickly and can have a massive impact on my own mental health.

All I wanted to say this time was a big thank you to all those who are saying the most important thing, “be nice”.

I truly don’t care if you think I or others like me are a woman or not, all I ask is that you be nice about it.

That can’t be too much to ask can it ? "

There are some nasty bastar** in society, we all know that. Unfortunately some of them are in here.

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By *angtidy42Couple over a year ago

Redditch

Doesn't really matter what gender they call themselves, they'll still leave the toilet seat down and wee on it.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Do you know what the average waiting time is for the gender service?

He wouldn't know, he's a classic transphobe and doesn't even know it......"

Are you calling the person a transphobe because they are questioning the lowering of age to 16? They clearly say the process needs to be made easier.

If you are can you explain why that makes the person a transphobe?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Do you know what the average waiting time is for the gender service?"

That may be an issue around resources.

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By *he AmbassadorMan over a year ago

IRLANDA. / Prague. / Cil Dara

I blame the Buckfast

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Do you know what the average waiting time is for the gender service?

He wouldn't know, he's a classic transphobe and doesn't even know it......"

I dont believe I'm transphobic at all. I think you perhaps made that comment to deliberately provoke a reaction and well done, you have succeded.

Disagreeing with the legislation does not make anyone transphobic and its comments like yours that attempt to shut down the debate in favour of Trans rights over and above any others.

I completely agree that the process of transitioning should be a simple as possible but that doesnt mean that there shouldn't be checks and balances in the system and absolutely for 16 and 17 year olds that should include medical profesionals.

You can hate me and call me transphobic if you want. That says more about you than me.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"There are aspects of this legislation that are troubling I think.

Do you know what the average waiting time is for the gender service?

He wouldn't know, he's a classic transphobe and doesn't even know it......

I dont believe I'm transphobic at all. I think you perhaps made that comment to deliberately provoke a reaction and well done, you have succeded.

Disagreeing with the legislation does not make anyone transphobic and its comments like yours that attempt to shut down the debate in favour of Trans rights over and above any others.

You can hate me and call me transphobic if you want. That says more about you than me."

Well said. I think many times people need to learn the proper meaning of words and understand other people might hold varying opinions without resorting to insult.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The day we stop assigning labels to people & look at accepting each other as human beings the World will become a much more tranquil place.

Everyone has their own views, and admittedly I did laugh at one the comments made above about every pound collected for guessing sex equating to a total of £2. Some peeps merely look at the gender from a reproductive kindest female giving birth.

In all, we all simply need to be a lot more tolerant & show kindness. No need for belittling anyone. We are after all one species and breath the same air.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/12/22 12:38:18]

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple over a year ago

chester

The change in legislation is lowering the age to apply for GCR.

It’s still an early stage of the gender reassignment process and the applicant will still face many more hurdles (I’m making an uneducated guess based on common sense).

So, they can start the ball rolling but that’s not a finite destiny to getting their bits and bobs surgically altered.

It’s a positive step for those people

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The day we stop assigning labels to people & look at accepting each other as human beings the World will become a much more tranquil place.

In all, we all simply need to be a lot more tolerant & show kindness. No need for belittling anyone. We are after all one species and breath the same air.

Everyone loves a label. Means we can continue to be lazy and not engage our brain.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

My daughter knew from a very young age that she was a girl! So 16 is well old enough ! X

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

Actually step away from this thread candyfloss! X

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Actually step away from this thread candyfloss! X

Be well. You and your family.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"Actually step away from this thread candyfloss! X

Be well. You and your family."

ty u 2 x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does it matter at all what gender someone identifies as?"
most definitely

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By *izzmasterzeroMan over a year ago

Aberdeen

Hasn't there been people in the past claiming to be god or Jesus? We quickly labelled them as crazy.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I'm glad society is becoming more accepting and we can leave our neanderthal instincts in the past.

I just hope we move past this fascist demonisation of a tiny minority group soon. It's bad for all of us and our democracy.

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