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NHS crisis
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The NHS appears to be in crisis. I meet people every day who say I couldn’t get a GP appointment or there’s a 2 year waiting list for X, Y or Z. This really does make me sad; not just for the poor people who can’t get seen to and therefore do not get treatment, but also for the staff who are obviously under immense pressure.
What do you think the solution should be? Do you think we should move everything to an hospital based care system so there’s GPs within hospitals and we close their surgeries? Do you think we should have some sort of insurance system like in the US? Do you think that there should be some sort of £20 ‘fee’ which covers all consultation and treatments? Do you think we should do nothing and just try to invest in it? Do you think it’s no longer fit for purpose? I would love to hear all your views!
No hate, everyone’s view is more than welcome, simply curious on what people think some solutions could be? |
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By *ullyMan
over a year ago
Near Clacton |
I think the government should stop giving millions of pounds of tax payers money away worldwide in "aid", and pour the money into the NHS. And stop treating people who come here just to exploit our NHS, and also stop people who have spent money on failed cosmetic surgery abroad from getting remedial treatment on the NHS.
Also stop doctors surgeries taking on thousands of patients just for allowance sakes when they can't possibly cope with the numbers.
My surgery for instance has two doctors yet a patient list approaching 3 thousand. It's greed on the part of the surgeries. And this surgeries waiting list is 18 to 25 days, it's disgusting. |
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Firstly, the NHS is definitely not fit for purpose. Secondly, we already pay insurance through NI contributions - it's a fallacy that NHS treatment is 'free'. In my view the NHS needs breaking up into more manageable and efficient sub-units, probably with private investment. Provided treatment remains based on clinical need, not ability to pay, I see no issue with private companies running healthcare. Who do you think makes the drugs? the surgical implants? the medical instruments & apparatus? Private companies. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Ok what about thoughts of medical school placements? Should we open more and to train more doctors? Should we re-introduce the bursaries for these people? |
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It's had massive real-terms cuts in investment for years, which obviously damages it.
We've not planned investment in training of medical staff, including Doctors, for years too  . We're stupid or wilfully want it to deliver a poor service. Blame the government and for voting for them.
Obviously, leaving the EU caused significant further reductions to staff levels. Again our fault.
It will take the right strategic decisions to want to improve it. Years of staff education to get staffing levels improved, before we get to see things at an appropriate standard. We have to get our politicians to be behind this though. Currently, many countries face struggles to get staff, so the major way to significantly boost employment levels is to train and remunerate health staff appropriately, from now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone |
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"Ok what about thoughts of medical school placements? Should we open more and to train more doctors? Should we re-introduce the bursaries for these people? "
This is a complex topic, with issues of doctor retention, part-time working and early retirement. It raises the question whether Med Schools are vetting applicants adequately in the first place. Some Med Schools are moving to graduate entry which might improve the situation. |
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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago
Market Harborough / Kettering |
The problem is that the UK is full ! We are building new houses continuously and still we need more. The roads are full. The trains are full. The hospitals are full. We have encouraged people to come here and now the UK's population is over 67 million. When I was at school it was 55 million. A near 22% increase. Have we built 22% more hospitals in the last 35 years? No. Have we built 22% more doctors surgeries? No. Have we built 22% more roads? No.My local town, Kettering, has the same hospital it had 40 years ago yet Kettering and the surrounding catchment's population must have doubled if not trebled in that time. It aint rocket science! We need some investment or we need to close the doors. |
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone "
............................
You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided.
So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study.
Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that.
Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that. |
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By *arkus1812Man
over a year ago
Lifes departure lounge NN9 Northamptonshire East not West MidlandsMidlands |
I have been advised that I will not get my two replacement knee joints until 2024 at the earliest.
My local Private hospital can perform the operations on the 2nd week of January 2023 for a cost of £36000, ironically it would be the same surgeon as at the local NHS hospital.
I worked for 52 years and paid National insurance for that whole period for what I ask myself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
............................
You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided.
So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study.
Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that.
Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that."
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone "
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? "
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it"
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022"
Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed |
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
............................
You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided.
So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study.
Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that.
Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that.
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist"
The NHS treats pretty much anybody according to clinical need, whether they can show entitlement or not. Laudable you might say, but as an ex-pat I can confirm you won't get past hospital reception in any other country in the world without insurance or credit card. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
............................
You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided.
So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study.
Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that.
Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that.
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist
The NHS treats pretty much anybody according to clinical need, whether they can show entitlement or not. Laudable you might say, but as an ex-pat I can confirm you won't get past hospital reception in any other country in the world without insurance or credit card. "
My point exactly. We cannot afford this,charging would mean more resources for the NHS |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022
Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed"
First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then |
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"Just imagine how much trouble they'd be in without the £350million a week post brexit bonanza... "
Yes! Thank fuck for that!
If, for example, that had been an outright lie we ‘d be in real trouble now!
Sigh….. |
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
............................
You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided.
So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study.
Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that.
Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that.
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist
The NHS treats pretty much anybody according to clinical need, whether they can show entitlement or not. Laudable you might say, but as an ex-pat I can confirm you won't get past hospital reception in any other country in the world without insurance or credit card. "
So say if someone who is brought in to hospital who may well be having a heart attack.. should the hospital turn them away because they are foreigners in this country? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022
Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed
First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then"
You said
'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.'
Then you say it has been completed.
I mean, I only live here and completed it.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Every time I see a thread about the NHS… it’s blame the foreigners lol"
Every time I see a thread about the NHS I know an apologist will pop up saying it's not the number of foreigners overwhelming all our public services. After all we have the infrastructure to support nearly 20 million extra people....oh,wait a minute |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022
Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed
First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then
You said
'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.'
Then you say it has been completed.
I mean, I only live here and completed it.
"
You filled in a form - this year.It has not been compiled and no results whatsoever so no,it has not been completed.England and Wales are using their census information to plan public spending whereas Sturgeon is just raising taxes based on what? |
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The NHS needs proper funding and a Government that’s behind it and wants it to work (not just sell it off to make a quick buck!).
As bad as it can be (and it can definitely be that) I’m not sure a private model would be any better - as the funding model changes but the care would be the same. Or those with the best insurance win out and it’s the less privalidged (spelling!) that get shafted again.
There’s a lot of challenges to make it work - just blaming increased population figures is an easy get out for those who want it gone.
It’s a wonderful institution that we’d all miss if it went. |
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"
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist"
.................................
For starters, no we're not all 'net takers' over a lifetime.
Secondly, the vast majority people coming here are doing us a favour, are generally of working age with a range of skills.
Health tourism does exist, of course it does. It can probably be easily addressed, however the impact it would have on NHS finances compared to the whole would be negligibleso not fix the problem I believe you're highlighting.
Incidentally nobody mentioned race, it's an unnecessary distraction, so planting the racism seed is a divisive trick, there are more relevant areas to point our grubby fingers at. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022
Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed
First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then
You said
'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.'
Then you say it has been completed.
I mean, I only live here and completed it.
You filled in a form - this year.It has not been compiled and no results whatsoever so no,it has not been completed.England and Wales are using their census information to plan public spending whereas Sturgeon is just raising taxes based on what?"
Perhaps be more accurate in how you express yourself and then confusion may be avoided?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist
.................................
For starters, no we're not all 'net takers' over a lifetime.
Secondly, the vast majority people coming here are doing us a favour, are generally of working age with a range of skills.
Health tourism does exist, of course it does. It can probably be easily addressed, however the impact it would have on NHS finances compared to the whole would be negligibleso not fix the problem I believe you're highlighting.
Incidentally nobody mentioned race, it's an unnecessary distraction, so planting the racism seed is a divisive trick, there are more relevant areas to point our grubby fingers at."
Yes we are all nett takers (spelt nett btw, a net is used to catch fish).You think the £10k at most you contribute each year covers your basic cost? Not even close.Only around 20 million pay any tax at all,and every person in England costs £12k a year,in Scotland £18k a year.That is every single year,children and pensioners who contribute nothing and the 20 million "economically inactive " as the government terms it. |
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"we already pay insurance through NI contributions - it's a fallacy that NHS treatment is 'free'."
It's free at point of service...
it's also a fallacy NI pays for it - all gov income NI/VAT/income tax etc. go into one big treasury pot then get distributed from there.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone
What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it?
Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it
Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022
Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed
First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then
You said
'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.'
Then you say it has been completed.
I mean, I only live here and completed it.
You filled in a form - this year.It has not been compiled and no results whatsoever so no,it has not been completed.England and Wales are using their census information to plan public spending whereas Sturgeon is just raising taxes based on what?
Perhaps be more accurate in how you express yourself and then confusion may be avoided? "
Perhaps learn how to read and educate yourself. I know Wee Nickie has destroyed the Scottish education system (which was one of the best in the world) but even so |
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Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations.
Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare.
Not all ppl out of work choose to be so. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
It needs a government that wants it to work instead of selling off chunks of it.
There needs to be a proper social care system so that the NHS doesn't have to deal with issues best dealt with elsewhere, such as more invested in care homes, so people can be discharged into a safe environment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations.
Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare.
Not all ppl out of work choose to be so. "
I agree. My point was the 12 million born overseas plus the health tourists should be charged or have insurance. They can afford to come here,live here,many send money home.Charge or insurance, no exceptions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It needs a government that wants it to work instead of selling off chunks of it.
There needs to be a proper social care system so that the NHS doesn't have to deal with issues best dealt with elsewhere, such as more invested in care homes, so people can be discharged into a safe environment. "
Probably true but what we really need is a government that knows how to make it work instead of using it as a political football. |
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"
Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country.
Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist
.................................
For starters, no we're not all 'net takers' over a lifetime.
Secondly, the vast majority people coming here are doing us a favour, are generally of working age with a range of skills.
Health tourism does exist, of course it does. It can probably be easily addressed, however the impact it would have on NHS finances compared to the whole would be negligibleso not fix the problem I believe you're highlighting.
Incidentally nobody mentioned race, it's an unnecessary distraction, so planting the racism seed is a divisive trick, there are more relevant areas to point our grubby fingers at.
Yes we are all nett takers (spelt nett btw, a net is used to catch fish).You think the £10k at most you contribute each year covers your basic cost? Not even close.Only around 20 million pay any tax at all,and every person in England costs £12k a year,in Scotland £18k a year.That is every single year,children and pensioners who contribute nothing and the 20 million "economically inactive " as the government terms it."
................................
You've no idea how much I contribute over the course of a year or more significantly over the course of my lifetime. Income tax, national insurance, capital gains, value added tax, stamp duty and a decent charge on my estate when I die. VAT is inescapable and disproportionately affects the lower paid as a percentage of their income.
However your idiocy continues, taking a mean average doesn't help see the wood for the trees. Demand on the NHS is weighted towards older ages and this isn't resolved by stopping health tourism or immigration. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations.
Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare.
Not all ppl out of work choose to be so.
I agree. My point was the 12 million born overseas plus the health tourists should be charged or have insurance. They can afford to come here,live here,many send money home.Charge or insurance, no exceptions."
Okay if they live here why should they not be entitled to healthcare?
Health tourists and those taken ill are charged via insurance, it's just that being a civilised country we'd treat soneone rather than let them die for not having their insurance policy on them. Are you honestly suggesting that if someone is acutely unwell with a heart attack or stroke we should let them die? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations.
Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare.
Not all ppl out of work choose to be so.
I agree. My point was the 12 million born overseas plus the health tourists should be charged or have insurance. They can afford to come here,live here,many send money home.Charge or insurance, no exceptions.
Okay if they live here why should they not be entitled to healthcare?
Health tourists and those taken ill are charged via insurance, it's just that being a civilised country we'd treat soneone rather than let them die for not having their insurance policy on them. Are you honestly suggesting that if someone is acutely unwell with a heart attack or stroke we should let them die?"
If I choose to live abroad I would be expected to have health insurance. France for example is around €1500 a year.I stayed with ex pats in France (and elsewhere) and they said it costs but the standard is so high it is worth it. See a GP same day and if needed in hospital the same day or next. As for emergency in this country everyone can use A&E without charge |
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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago
Market Harborough / Kettering |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. "
Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think)."
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price.
Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it"
How fid the government 'create false jobs'? |
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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago
Market Harborough / Kettering |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price.
Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it
How fid the government 'create false jobs'?"
Because they could ! I remember reading the job section in my local paper on several occasions and there would be numerous adverts for jobs within our local council. All had very obscure job descriptions and I remember thinking at the time "what the hell does that job entail" the answer? Nothing ! Jobs created for no reason or a job that someone else could have done!! Again, in the private company world people multi-task, in a government run organisation there's an employee for every role ! Waste of money !! |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
We always had enough staff working within the NHS whom eventually got fed up being treated unfairly by the government it's been long overdue over a decade they have been fighting for a decent wage and classified as front line workers and aren't they should be receiving more than just not only police but also any other sectors
In anyone's life might not need any other but will always need some kind of help from the NHS people's health is an important factor and the service shouldn't be put under immense amount of pressure and only valuable by what they do but nothing else |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? "
All of them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The NHS succeeding does not depend on how many people use it, it depends on the people running it, don't be fooled by media propaganda. Less people wouldn't result in faster appointments, quicker treatment or evaporate the waiting lists, it would just give the government an excuse to make more cuts. It's sad that in any crisis every one points at each other instead of pointing at the people who are ruining all our lives. |
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"The NHS appears to be in crisis. I meet people every day who say I couldn’t get a GP appointment or there’s a 2 year waiting list for X, Y or Z. This really does make me sad; not just for the poor people who can’t get seen to and therefore do not get treatment, but also for the staff who are obviously under immense pressure.
What do you think the solution should be? Do you think we should move everything to an hospital based care system so there’s GPs within hospitals and we close their surgeries? Do you think we should have some sort of insurance system like in the US? Do you think that there should be some sort of £20 ‘fee’ which covers all consultation and treatments? Do you think we should do nothing and just try to invest in it? Do you think it’s no longer fit for purpose? I would love to hear all your views!
No hate, everyone’s view is more than welcome, simply curious on what people think some solutions could be? "
I think you're right and it's been that way for many years. Ultimately it needs knocking down and start again.if there are bits that are working well.. Fine. Save them. We need compulsory insurance. We need to pay for consultations and treatments and many other thing we use. There of course needs to be a safety net for those who can't afford it.
It needs to be removed from all political discussion. And a x party health body set up responsible for health and wellbeing.
We also need to do basic things better admin and appts and communications and prescriptions. . . There is no excuse for not being able to do these basic things simply efficiently and effectively. Why does it take 5 working days to get a repeat prescription ffs.
We need to stop playing with window dressing and start to address significant issues. And we need to make the nhs accountable for the poor service and negligence when it commits them.. Juts like any other organisation.
We also need to reposition it entitely.we should not be greatful nor thankful for a service which we have almost all paid a load of tax into to be provided to us.. Its ours. Wr paid for it. Its our right and it needs to be and do better.
And for those who work hard and are doing fantastic work in it. Well done. lots of people do great jobs and work hard.
A friend of mine had his urgent cancer consultation cancelled today due to nurses strike and unable to rebook. He's on the edge as is. More delays may just kill him. Fingers crossed it doesn't. |
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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago
Market Harborough / Kettering |
I went to my hospital a few years ago and was standing in the queue at reception where there were two receptionists dealing with the patients. A girl walked up to me who I knew and started chatting. She finally asked why I was there. I told here and said I needed a certain department. She then proceeded to give me directions to where I needed to go. She then went to the next people in the queue and asked them the same thing. That was her bloody job!! The two receptionist could have given me the same information but the NHS had decided to employ a third person to give directions !! What a waste of money !! I'm guessing £20k a year wasted?? |
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? "
It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price.
Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it
How fid the government 'create false jobs'?
Because they could ! I remember reading the job section in my local paper on several occasions and there would be numerous adverts for jobs within our local council. All had very obscure job descriptions and I remember thinking at the time "what the hell does that job entail" the answer? Nothing ! Jobs created for no reason or a job that someone else could have done!! Again, in the private company world people multi-task, in a government run organisation there's an employee for every role ! Waste of money !! "
Si they weren't created by the government?
And by false you mean you didn't think they were valid?
Ao in short the government didn't create false jobs then? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water? "
So you can't name a single privatised industry thst has benefited the public, but the NHS should be privatised? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them "
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? |
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water?
So you can't name a single privatised industry thst has benefited the public, but the NHS should be privatised?"
BT are a thriving private company that came out of the nationalised GPO. Remember waiting 3 months just to get a handset, available in any colour provided it's grey? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?"
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine |
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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago
Market Harborough / Kettering |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price.
Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it
How fid the government 'create false jobs'?
Because they could ! I remember reading the job section in my local paper on several occasions and there would be numerous adverts for jobs within our local council. All had very obscure job descriptions and I remember thinking at the time "what the hell does that job entail" the answer? Nothing ! Jobs created for no reason or a job that someone else could have done!! Again, in the private company world people multi-task, in a government run organisation there's an employee for every role ! Waste of money !!
Si they weren't created by the government?
And by false you mean you didn't think they were valid?
Ao in short the government didn't create false jobs then?"
The local authorities especially are "guided" by politicians further up the chain. My point is it wouldn't happen in a private company where every penny is accounted for and looked after. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Swivel-eyed, frothing at the mouth raves about health tourism, are clearly missing the boat. Any savings will be as good as irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things. Look at the big picture, "
And there is the problem with the NHS. No one cares,just throw money at it.Health tourism we know costs £2 billion a year but estimates say up to five times that in hidden health tourism.But it is "irrelevant " |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water?
So you can't name a single privatised industry thst has benefited the public, but the NHS should be privatised?
BT are a thriving private company that came out of the nationalised GPO. Remember waiting 3 months just to get a handset, available in any colour provided it's grey?"
In fairness given that BT was privatised in the days of not every house having a landline and now make most of their money from broadband and TV packages and most people use a mobile not a landline, their previous business model is obsolete.
So yes the company is thriving but it doesn't really fit the answer of privatisation having benefitted the consumer when arguably it is global technological advances that have radically changed their sector thstvthe consumer has benefitted from.
And they are far from being alone, every company rest comes out of privatisation seems to make huge profits, but thst doesn't mean the public benefitted |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine"
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? |
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By *ip2Man
over a year ago
Near Maidenhead |
Straight after the EU referendum the pound plunged and has not recovered.
The drop in the pound hits everything the NHS does.
The NHS relied heavily on EU staff.
People cried on the morning of the referendum result because of feeling rejected and unwanted.
Then the government has made life much worse for EU citizens in the UK.
The threat of the "hostile environment". Being made to apply for "settled status". The refusal to give a physical proof of status. Refusing to accept ID cards like the ones given free to French citizens by France.
The new demands on immigration like minimum salary have been called "iron fisted".
It impacts care workers which in turn impacts hospitals.
The loss of Euratom, the European Atomic Energy Community, delays imports of cancer treatments and X-ray materials from NL, Belgium and France.
The refusal to accept the CE mark on medical devices, hospital equipment and even lifts in buildings, hits the makers who supply to the NHS.
The loss of the European Medicines Agency means more bureaucracy on licencing medicines.
Even research is damaged. It's harder for science projects. The best research has been collaboration between institutes in different countries.
I know someone who is alive today because of medical trial. She was treated by the NHS here but the trial was run in Sweden.
"To me", she said, "being in the EU has been literally a matter of life and death".
I met a man who was the editor of a journal of surgery. "We would be mad", he said to me, to lose our EU membership.
Everything about the referendum, and everything that has flowed from it, has been appalling - and in every way it has damaged the NHS. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
NHS in Crisis yet private healthcare companies and agencies make millions
Energy Crisis yet Energy companies make billions
Financial Crisis yet Banks and Bonus's see profits balloon
Railways crisis yet Railway operators make millions in profit
Maybe its the companies supported by this tory government that is the crisis
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?"
Not an attack, an observation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?"
Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way |
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I've noticed a massive change since covid in my surgery there's 12 doctors but only 2 doctors a day are working I could wait 3 weeks for an appointment or pay private to see the same doctors but only wait 3 days for my appointment... so they're getting 110k for being a less than part time GP but obviously they're getting more working private |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way "
Are yiu sure?
You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them"
So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way
Are yiu sure?
You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them"
So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different?"
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? is what you asked but then you asked a different question.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Two different questions,do keep up, with yourself at least |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way
Are yiu sure?
You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them"
So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different?
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? is what you asked but then you asked a different question.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Two different questions,do keep up, with yourself at least"
And there is another
So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public?
All of them
So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public?
We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?
Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine
Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way
Are yiu sure?
You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them"
So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different?
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? is what you asked but then you asked a different question.
So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?
Two different questions,do keep up, with yourself at least
And there is another
So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different?"
Go on,ask just one.I will even allow you to cherry pick the best bits of the three,I am a generous man |
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By *ip2Man
over a year ago
Near Maidenhead |
By the way, it's no picnic working on NHS wards for an agency, instead of being a member of NHS staff.
The agency make you be an self employed health care provider.
You have to buy your own liability insurance. You may need insurance against claims against you that could go running into millions of pounds.
You have to submit invoices, work out your own VAT, register a company, keep company accounts, submit company and VAT returns...
And you have to do all this, when? After a shift when you're exhausted? On a Sunday night?
Will the agency even give you the shifts you want?
The agency even tells you that you have to have antivirus software on the computer you use to send them invoices.
Depending on the hospital you may get the Crown Indemnity scheme that protects you against being sued for damages. Or you may not.
Will you get the protection of the NHS management? Suddenly, having a hospital chief exec who deals with the potential nightmares so you don't have to, seems a lot more appealing... |
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I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours.
And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours.
You struggle to believe?Every other 1st world country is better than ours.
And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance. "
No country tries to copy us.Quite the reverse, they look at us and think madness |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours.
You struggle to believe?Every other 1st world country is better than ours.
And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance.
No country tries to copy us.Quite the reverse, they look at us and think madness "
Yes , UK have one of the worse systems !
I don’t know what you do, I couldn’t use NHS myself , hospitals are dirty and very badly managed. The consultants come on some days to do NHS work but more and more of the good ones don't bother, their private practices are getting busy as more people switch to paid |
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"I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours.
You struggle to believe?Every other 1st world country is better than ours.
And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance.
No country tries to copy us.Quite the reverse, they look at us and think madness
Yes , UK have one of the worse systems !
I don’t know what you do, I couldn’t use NHS myself , hospitals are dirty and very badly managed. The consultants come on some days to do NHS work but more and more of the good ones don't bother, their private practices are getting busy as more people switch to paid "
But surely that is the point isn't it.? We say we love our treasured nhs but we value it so little we aren't prepared to pay anything like what it costs to provide decent health care. And yet we are perfectly happy to pay to get our car serviced and motd, put new tyres on when needed.
I know the nhs has replaced the Royal family in our affections but just don't get what most people even want from it, let alone stand a half chance of delivering it. |
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"It's had massive real-terms cuts in investment for years, which obviously damages it.
We've not planned investment in training of medical staff, including Doctors, for years too . We're stupid or wilfully want it to deliver a poor service. Blame the government and for voting for them.
Obviously, leaving the EU caused significant further reductions to staff levels. Again our fault.
It will take the right strategic decisions to want to improve it. Years of staff education to get staffing levels improved, before we get to see things at an appropriate standard. We have to get our politicians to be behind this though. Currently, many countries face struggles to get staff, so the major way to significantly boost employment levels is to train and remunerate health staff appropriately, from now "
Well said. We also need to put an end to the brain drain that is making medical graduates not want to work in the NHS so they prefer to quit medicine or move to Australasia/elsewhere.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).
Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? "
All of them except water. |
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