FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Do you support id photo at polling stations?
Do you support id photo at polling stations?
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
Continue here any late commers.
I read an article about it https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1708872/election-laws-photo-identification-requirement-uk-poll-spt/amp?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral
Apparently voters will be required to show recognised forms of identification to vote in upcoming elections, but campaigners argue an estimated 3.5 million electorate do not have photographic id.
They say the reason was to prevent fraud, what is your view of it. I think that it is it a slippery slope with your privacy and also whqt about those millions of people that doesnt have it, will they beable to vote? I think that they should have it as it is  |
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Let me get in early to address the “It only costs [however much]!” argument that people keep making:
Some people do not have [however much]. Might not sound like much to someone in your privileged position, but some people *do not have that money*.
Any ID measure that the person has to pay for automatically excludes anyone who can’t afford it.
If you honestly believe poor people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, just come out and say it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. |
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I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans.
People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans.
People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us. "
Will people using postal voting need photographic ID need to apply for a postal vote? If not then I just see the whole thing as a costly exercise that is completely unnecessary. |
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"I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans.
People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us.
Will people using postal voting need photographic ID need to apply for a postal vote? If not then I just see the whole thing as a costly exercise that is completely unnecessary. "
Not a clue, but I agree, it's an expensive solution to an almost non existent problem |
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"Let me get in early to address the “It only costs [however much]!” argument that people keep making:
Some people do not have [however much]. Might not sound like much to someone in your privileged position, but some people *do not have that money*.
Any ID measure that the person has to pay for automatically excludes anyone who can’t afford it.
If you honestly believe poor people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, just come out and say it.
"
What he said!75.50 is 3/4 of my weekly rent or half my monthly council tax or half my monthly food bill! Beyond my pocket x |
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"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. "
No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year
*****
After you apply
Passport interviews
After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity.
If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online
****
It’s not always necessary. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! "
You hope! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions.
No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year
*****
After you apply
Passport interviews
After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity.
If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online
****
It’s not always necessary. "
That is for people but have already had a passport if you look up on the government website it will very clearly tell you if you are applying for a passport for the 1st time and you are UK citizen You are definitely going to have to have a face-to-face interview you can argue with me all you like but it's absolutely true. There are no exceptions to this except during the pandemic.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
From the UK government Website! |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans.
People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us. "
But with nothibg in place it's an excellent way to try and avoid or at least limit the tories being decimated in the council elections |
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"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! "
Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory.
Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it.
Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing.
Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it.
Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion.
Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people...
Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh? |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! "
There will be options but there will be obstacles designed to make people give up. And those people will be the younger and poorer who do not normally carry photo ID and are much less likely to vote tory. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against!
Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory.
Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it.
Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing.
Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it.
Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion.
Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people...
Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh?"
One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against!
Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory.
Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it.
Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing.
Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it.
Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion.
Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people...
Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh?
One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks."
Unfortunately many don't see the everyday barriers involved for some people just to simply do something they take for granted like vote. I got married earlier this year and my passport is currently in my maiden name however I am registered to vote in my married name. If photo identification is required I am either going to have to pay £75 to renew my passport 7 years early or not vote. I shouldn't have to do either. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against!
Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory.
Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it.
Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing.
Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it.
Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion.
Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people...
Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh?
One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks.
Unfortunately many don't see the everyday barriers involved for some people just to simply do something they take for granted like vote. I got married earlier this year and my passport is currently in my maiden name however I am registered to vote in my married name. If photo identification is required I am either going to have to pay £75 to renew my passport 7 years early or not vote. I shouldn't have to do either. "
Ajd in theory a marriage certificate and passport should suffice, bit it possibly won't, and potentially it will be on the whim of the staff at the polling station who face a completely unenviable task |
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It’s a political tactic to disenfranchise a voting demographic. Forget about the arguments about money and affordability (though they are valid arguments), the real reason is to stop a certain group of the population from voting. It’s a trick to maintain the current political paradigm (which is grossly under serving us).
One can argue that the same was done in America when they flooded the ghettos with crack and then introduced “mandatory minimum” sentencing laws. Once you have been to prison in America you can never vote again, so they criminalised the part of the population that might have voted against Neoliberalism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against!
Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory.
Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it.
Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing.
Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it.
Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion.
Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people...
Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh?
One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks.
Unfortunately many don't see the everyday barriers involved for some people just to simply do something they take for granted like vote. I got married earlier this year and my passport is currently in my maiden name however I am registered to vote in my married name. If photo identification is required I am either going to have to pay £75 to renew my passport 7 years early or not vote. I shouldn't have to do either.
Ajd in theory a marriage certificate and passport should suffice, bit it possibly won't, and potentially it will be on the whim of the staff at the polling station who face a completely unenviable task"
Well I hope so but I'm not convinced. It was a huge story locally in the last election that a lady was turned away from the polling station with her Assistance dog as dogs were not allowed in the polling station and had to be tied up outside. If polling staff are not aware of a law that has been in place for decades about assistance dogs I don't have much faith in them knowing a very new law. |
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Something else to think about:
An OAPs free bus pass is valid ID, but a young person’s rail card (which costs considerably more than the bus pass) isn’t valid ID.
Why is that?
A young person is more likely to vote for a Centre Left party, whereas an OAP is more likely to vote Centre Right. And with the cost of living crisis, these young people probably don’t have a driving licence, or a passport. So they’re frozen out of the system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?"
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
"
Wow! You really don't have a clue even though people have tried to explain it to you and others.
It is not a minor inconvenience to pay for identification that you otherwise don't need, Some people simply will not be able to afford to vote and if you think that's acceptable then You need to give your head a wobble. You have basically just confirmed what someone have believe the poor don't deserve to vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
"
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require. |
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By *hekMan
over a year ago
N/E London |
ID based Voting, I like that there’s a way to limit fraud.
That citizens have to pay anything above £10 to have that right/have that ID I think is wrong, esp in todays society with many impacted by cost of living.
Worried about privacy? I’m on a Chinese built phone on a foreign owned network. Big brother knows all it wants to already, the right to privacy is academic at this stage . Maybe the Tinfoil hat brigade were right all along! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"ID based Voting, I like that there’s a way to limit fraud.
That citizens have to pay anything above £10 to have that right/have that ID I think is wrong, esp in todays society with many impacted by cost of living.
Worried about privacy? I’m on a Chinese built phone on a foreign owned network. Big brother knows all it wants to already, the right to privacy is academic at this stage . Maybe the Tinfoil hat brigade were right all along! "
What voter fraud though? |
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
"
Wow! U really are clueless!!  x |
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require. "
Ye only 46 of the 47 European countries surveyed by the Crime Prevention Research Center require photo ID. Guess who the odd one out is? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
"
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc. "
Genuine question, how would compulsory ID make me safer?
I asked someone else this on the original thread and never got a response?
I can see benefits to it, but not how it makes an individual safer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require.
Ye only 46 of the 47 European countries surveyed by the Crime Prevention Research Center require photo ID. Guess who the odd one out is?"
I think you need to do a little bit more research because they don't need photo identification there are ways round it. |
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"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? "
I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth?
I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x "
This is what people are not understanding and those who say it's a minor inconvenience that can be got round are very clueless. |
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"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth?
I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x
This is what people are not understanding and those who say it's a minor inconvenience that can be got round are very clueless. "
They really are! X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc. "
It shouldn't cost any individual anything to be able to vote ever! |
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I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I do, yes.
We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available.
We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do, yes.
We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available.
We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem"
What voter fraud? This question has been asked several times but nobody seems to be able to answer.
Where have you seen that free photo ID will be available? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
It shouldn't cost any individual anything to be able to vote ever! "
My mind is focused more on having an ID for multiple reasons benefiting society, rather than voting issue alone.
|
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
It shouldn't cost any individual anything to be able to vote ever!
My mind is focused more on having an ID for multiple reasons benefiting society, rather than voting issue alone.
"
Hoe will mandatory ID benefit society? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I do, yes.
We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available.
We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem"
How are you quantifying 'a growing problem'? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
Genuine question, how would compulsory ID make me safer?
I asked someone else this on the original thread and never got a response?
I can see benefits to it, but not how it makes an individual safer"
You can be questioned by police on the stop if carrying was compulsory in the way I know it elsewhere; would eventually help with illegal immigration too I hope. Verify yourself and others identity in the most secure way - comparing the photo whilst collecting parcels, having appointments with local council. I had to show my ID entering club, signing a contract, showing up at police station or any formal establishment and so on. Yes it does make me feel safer. |
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By *uzy206Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
Voting fraud has not been a problem in previous elections! As previously stated the numbers of fraudulent votes at the last election was very low and did not in any way influence the result of the election overall or any any individual constituency.
As the majority of posters in this thread recognise it is designed to make it more difficult to vote for people who are likely to not vote Tory |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. "
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them. |
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|
By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
Genuine question, how would compulsory ID make me safer?
I asked someone else this on the original thread and never got a response?
I can see benefits to it, but not how it makes an individual safer
You can be questioned by police on the stop if carrying was compulsory in the way I know it elsewhere; would eventually help with illegal immigration too I hope. Verify yourself and others identity in the most secure way - comparing the photo whilst collecting parcels, having appointments with local council. I had to show my ID entering club, signing a contract, showing up at police station or any formal establishment and so on. Yes it does make me feel safer. "
Sorry but i fail to see how any of that makes me "safer". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require.
Ye only 46 of the 47 European countries surveyed by the Crime Prevention Research Center require photo ID. Guess who the odd one out is?"
ignoring the source....
Do we have higher rates of voters fraud? Any evidence to show this helps reduce fraud? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Sorry but i fail to see how any of that makes me "safer". "
It makes ME feel safer. And people I know who still live back there. I find it strange how much trust is given here. Politely agree to disagree. |
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"I do, yes.
We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available.
We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem"
Where can I get my free photo ID?? X |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so.
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them. "
Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer.
You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
compulsory ID cards are not what is being discussed here. Somebody asked you how it safer?
I am sure it falls within remit of subject.
Scroll up^
"
Where has anybody other than you said anything about compulsory identification and the person you were agreeing with? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so.
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them.
Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer.
You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? "
Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion.
Have a good night. |
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By *elshyXOMan
over a year ago
Newcastle |
At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so.
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them.
Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer.
You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that?
Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion.
Have a good night. "
And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims. |
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"At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups "
What voting groups? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. "
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so.
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them.
Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer.
You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that?
Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion.
Have a good night.
And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims. "
Lorna. I said I FELT SAFER. I don't need to provide evidence for feelings. Are you done? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The point most seemed to be missing is the conservatives claim voter fraud is on the rise which is why we need without any evidence.
If that is the case then it would have been the conservatives that have benefited from this so called fraud over the last 12 years.
This is about disenfranchising certain groups including those that do not have photographic ID.
Ask yourselves why this is bringing brought in by the conservative government now.
They have never called for this before and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest there is any more fraud than there ever has been. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. "
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? |
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"The point most seemed to be missing is the conservatives claim voter fraud is on the rise which is why we need without any evidence.
If that is the case then it would have been the conservatives that have benefited from this so called fraud over the last 12 years.
This is about disenfranchising certain groups including those that do not have photographic ID.
Ask yourselves why this is bringing brought in by the conservative government now.
They have never called for this before and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest there is any more fraud than there ever has been. "
What groups? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so.
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them.
Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer.
You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that?
Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion.
Have a good night.
And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims.
Lorna. I said I FELT SAFER. I don't need to provide evidence for feelings. Are you done? "
You asked why you felt safer, You answered somebody disagreed with you. Am I done doing what replying to a thread I'm sorry you don't like my answers but I stand by everything I've said. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth?
You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't. "
Yes! But i buy alcohol  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? "
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening:
*Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money.
I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp.
Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so.
We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research".
Patronising anyone won't convince them.
Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer.
You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that?
Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion.
Have a good night.
And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims.
Lorna. I said I FELT SAFER. I don't need to provide evidence for feelings. Are you done?
You asked why you felt safer, You answered somebody disagreed with you. Am I done doing what replying to a thread I'm sorry you don't like my answers but I stand by everything I've said. "
Sure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth?
I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x "
Yes that is definitely a challenge |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth?
You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't.
Yes! But i buy alcohol "
My gosh I haven't been asked for ID for alcohol for about 20 years. |
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By *elshyXOMan
over a year ago
Newcastle |
"At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups
What voting groups? "
There’s a wide selection, youre talking anything from new, young voters to those with a lack of basic income. I also noticed an earlier comment where you said you were amazed you could vote without proof of who you are, however, you still need a current address, to be on thr electoral register (of which you apply & consent to be on) & your polling card. Essentially the information you willingly hand over is enough go ensure that in a vast majority of cases the person voting is actually who they say they are |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth?
You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't.
Yes! But i buy alcohol
My gosh I haven't been asked for ID for alcohol for about 20 years. "
I had to show it last week in m+s.. I always carry my driving license, but i wonder what have been the outcome if i didn't have it! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? "
aren't there lists at pollong stations. If there were fraud you'd have people saying they couldn't vote as their name had been ticked off
I guess one may guess who is vote agnostic. But there would be cases where someone gets it wrong.
|
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. "
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID? |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. "
Obviously because the correct person doesn't turn up. There are thousands on the electoral list who never vote. Those details are available to candidates and their reps and it's very easy without photo ID to fill those gaps. It happens all around the world and is well documented. |
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"At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups
What voting groups?
There’s a wide selection, youre talking anything from new, young voters to those with a lack of basic income. I also noticed an earlier comment where you said you were amazed you could vote without proof of who you are, however, you still need a current address, to be on thr electoral register (of which you apply & consent to be on) & your polling card. Essentially the information you willingly hand over is enough go ensure that in a vast majority of cases the person voting is actually who they say they are"
Ok, well if you need to bring your polling card then thats at least dome verification. My preference would still be to have ID accompanying that, but its better than nothing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID? "
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. "
I think it is the postal vote or proxy vote in certain parts of the country, but i don't have any sources to quote ! |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. "
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? "
You don't 'just walk in' and vote.
You should present your polling card, which you will only get if you are on the electoral roll,and they then strike your name off the list so the card can't be used more than once.
Yes, without photo ID you could be someone else and potentially cast one vote. However, to say that there 'is no way of checking anything' is hyperbole. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
You don't 'just walk in' and vote.
You should present your polling card, which you will only get if you are on the electoral roll,and they then strike your name off the list so the card can't be used more than once.
Yes, without photo ID you could be someone else and potentially cast one vote. However, to say that there 'is no way of checking anything' is hyperbole."
If you scroll up youll see i anknowledged the polling card bit from another poster, which i wasnt aware of initially.
Regardless, why open up any potential for shenanigans when you could just make photo ID mandatory? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? "
2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
I think it is the postal vote or proxy vote in certain parts of the country, but i don't have any sources to quote ! "
But no ID will be required for postal voting that's what I can't get my head round because that is the only place where there is proven Fraud. |
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It seems to be a disproportionate obstacle to hinder certain (generally none Tory voting) demographics when pitched against the almost negligible voter fraud that exists. In a way its a much bigger act of vote influencing than the fraud its claimed to prevent.
The time, expenses and effort the government seem to want to put into such a negligible issue smells very iffy to me.
Mr
|
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
"
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? "
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? "
So what do you have that is a FREE PHOTO ID.
Think of some how dose not drive and dose not go abroad.
|
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"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions.
No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year
*****
After you apply
Passport interviews
After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity.
If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online
****
It’s not always necessary. "
they don't always. My daughter got her first adult passport November this year.. she was not invited for an interview |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. "
How much does a passport cost? |
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"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions.
No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year
*****
After you apply
Passport interviews
After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity.
If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online
****
It’s not always necessary. they don't always. My daughter got her first adult passport November this year.. she was not invited for an interview "
Did she have a child passport?? |
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Northern Ireland for a long time you have to have photo ID to vote. but rubbish when waiting for driving licence renewal to come through and I’m not paying £100 to get a passport I’ve no intention of using just so I can vote. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost? "
I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168 |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost? "
£75 Plus any other documents you may need like your birth certificate and that of both of your parents. If you have to go for an interview the travel costs so you could easily be looking at over at over £100. £34 For a provisional driving licence assuming you are entitled to one as many people are not. This is a lot of money if you are on a very low income. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost?
I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168"
Wow! Did you pay for it to be fast tracked because that's a lot of money. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? "
I'm not trying to be. But the cost of fraud only bites when it's widescale. With FPTP the marginal fraudulent vote doesn't have the same cost.
As has been covered, there typically a cost. And a not insignifiacant effort.
Many will dismiss this, but for some it's a sizeable barrier.
Even if the givenment provide a free option, some will struggle to access the frer service. Or know about
Ppl with ID will still miss out on voting. You can't find your ID. You lose it just before the election. You forget to take it with you because you have worked late and now are going direct to work.
Plus photo ID isn't that fail safe. I could probably get a fake drivers license easily enough. And the more ID you allow, the more it can pass as real.
Again. Everyone is asking an effort to solve a problem yet to be established and is assuming their answer will help. I can be converted if there was evidence on both points. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost? "
ID is getting so hard
My mother passed and the solicitors want 3 forms of ID
1. Passport or driving licence.
2. Proof of address. Had to be my name only. And not passport or driving license.
3. Proof of address utility bill.
Bank on line, bills on line, it is getting harder when you have to do it.
|
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost?
I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168
Wow! Did you pay for it to be fast tracked because that's a lot of money. "
Yes fast track and let them do it all had to renew In 4 weeks between jobs flying in to UK and flying back out in the end it took 10 Days Could track it on line. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost?
£75 Plus any other documents you may need like your birth certificate and that of both of your parents. If you have to go for an interview the travel costs so you could easily be looking at over at over £100. £34 For a provisional driving licence assuming you are entitled to one as many people are not. This is a lot of money if you are on a very low income. "
Not to sound dismissive, but this is a one off cost, or at least once every 10 years or so.
What about the citizen card, isnt that something like 15 pounds? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Citizen cards are £15"
Except that is not included on the list. It's literally passport, Driving licence, OAP bus pass andbiometric immigration documents. This is meant to be implemented before be May elections and it has been proposed that a document will be available for those without photographic ID although this will not be available in time for the May elections. If this is brought in it should only be done so once these documents are available and not before. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost?
£75 Plus any other documents you may need like your birth certificate and that of both of your parents. If you have to go for an interview the travel costs so you could easily be looking at over at over £100. £34 For a provisional driving licence assuming you are entitled to one as many people are not. This is a lot of money if you are on a very low income.
Not to sound dismissive, but this is a one off cost, or at least once every 10 years or so.
What about the citizen card, isnt that something like 15 pounds?"
See my post above. If you break it down over a 10 year period It's not expensive but you have to have the money in the 1st place as you can't pay for a passport in instalments. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote.
Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont.
So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well.
Why not just be required to show ID?
Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it.
So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population.
Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones
It keeps coming back to
How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd
Verus
What is the effects of enforcing it
People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results.
There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang.
Not sure why youre being facetious.
But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID?
Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport.
How much does a passport cost?
I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168
Wow! Did you pay for it to be fast tracked because that's a lot of money. "
Oh and it cost more as its 50 page not 25 I think |
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"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said "
Well if thats the case then there really is no excuse surely |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said "
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. "
And the tories are goung to get hammered at those local elections so it is hard not ti conclude this is a desperate attempt to limit the damage |
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"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. "
this was dated from early this year..
You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id.
The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
Well if thats the case then there really is no excuse surely "
depends how easy it is to get them. |
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Right-wingers in America have been pulling this shit for years. It's all about suppressing the vote. Poorer people sometimes can't afford voter ID or have difficulty getting it, so parties that are there for rich people support things like this because it cuts down the amount of poor people who can vote against them.
All the official statistics show that the amount of voter fraud in the US is miniscule and has never been enough to change as much as one district outcome across all of the US over decades. Is it really a problem? It certainly doesn't seem to be, but right-wingers hammer this policy and it's been very successful for them.
I imagine this is just the same bullshit talking point being tried over here, probably on GB News. I bet they call it "common sense" too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year..
You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id.
The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc "
4pc of ppl don't have a bank account. Even that's a luxury for some (for various reasons) |
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"Right-wingers in America have been pulling this shit for years. It's all about suppressing the vote. Poorer people sometimes can't afford voter ID or have difficulty getting it, so parties that are there for rich people support things like this because it cuts down the amount of poor people who can vote against them.
All the official statistics show that the amount of voter fraud in the US is miniscule and has never been enough to change as much as one district outcome across all of the US over decades. Is it really a problem? It certainly doesn't seem to be, but right-wingers hammer this policy and it's been very successful for them.
I imagine this is just the same bullshit talking point being tried over here, probably on GB News. I bet they call it "common sense" too. "
Sigh, here we go again with the 'right wingers' klaxon call.
Im starting to think that these 'right wingers' appear to sound uncannily like 'common sensers' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Wow! U really are clueless!! x"
Thanks for your considered and intelligent response.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
Well if thats the case then there really is no excuse surely "
They should pay people to get ID, there would be 100% take up then. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year..
You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id.
The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc "
That is a myth and you can get a bank account without photo ID. You can pick things up from the Post Office with a debit card. |
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"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions.
No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year
*****
After you apply
Passport interviews
After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity.
If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online
****
It’s not always necessary.
That is for people but have already had a passport if you look up on the government website it will very clearly tell you if you are applying for a passport for the 1st time and you are UK citizen You are definitely going to have to have a face-to-face interview you can argue with me all you like but it's absolutely true. There are no exceptions to this except during the pandemic.
Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview.
From the UK government Website!"
Only for people who were issues with a restricted validity passport.
Not all people require an interview. |
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"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are.
I am baffled as to why people think we need it.
We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country.
How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all?
You don't 'just walk in' and vote.
You should present your polling card, which you will only get if you are on the electoral roll,and they then strike your name off the list so the card can't be used more than once.
Yes, without photo ID you could be someone else and potentially cast one vote. However, to say that there 'is no way of checking anything' is hyperbole.
If you scroll up youll see i anknowledged the polling card bit from another poster, which i wasnt aware of initially.
Regardless, why open up any potential for shenanigans when you could just make photo ID mandatory? "
I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote.
Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone.
I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance). |
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"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year..
You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id.
The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc
That is a myth and you can get a bank account without photo ID. You can pick things up from the Post Office with a debit card."
Sorry.. but you can't if you haven't got a bank account.
And that is the point if you ate out of the system its hard.
That is why homeless are homeless.
No address you can't get bank Acount, no account you can't get a job. No job you can't get a home. Etc Etc of the man topic but... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting.
Voter authority certificates I think it said
It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year..
You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id.
The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc
That is a myth and you can get a bank account without photo ID. You can pick things up from the Post Office with a debit card.
Sorry.. but you can't if you haven't got a bank account.
And that is the point if you ate out of the system its hard.
That is why homeless are homeless.
No address you can't get bank Acount, no account you can't get a job. No job you can't get a home. Etc Etc of the man topic but..."
Again that is another myth.
There are systems in place that every single person can have a bank account you don't actually need an address. All benefit payments are paid into bank accounts there is no other way. The government made sure all banks had an option for people to be able to have a very basic bank account where all you need is a letter from the benefit agency to open. When benefits 1st started being compulsory paid into bank accounts Post Office accounts were set up for this reason but they have now been scrapped. Also I'm not really following your logic because if somebody doesn't have an address they are not going to have a parcel delivered that they then need to collect from the Post Office. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote.
Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone.
I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance)."
When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc !
Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote.
Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone.
I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance).
When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc !
Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used."
did everyone have a passport or drovers license ? |
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"Continue here any late commers.
I read an article about it https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1708872/election-laws-photo-identification-requirement-uk-poll-spt/amp?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral
Apparently voters will be required to show recognised forms of identification to vote in upcoming elections, but campaigners argue an estimated 3.5 million electorate do not have photographic id.
They say the reason was to prevent fraud, what is your view of it. I think that it is it a slippery slope with your privacy and also whqt about those millions of people that doesnt have it, will they beable to vote? I think that they should have it as it is "
I’ve always been against it, it’s a poor excuse to exclude voters that tend to vote for the opposition. They tried to introduce it in the states as well and there was no creditable evidence it would help reduce fraud, only exclude voters from a poor background |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote.
Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone.
I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance).
When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc !
Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used.did everyone have a passport or drovers license ?"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote.
Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone.
I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance).
When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc !
Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used.did everyone have a passport or drovers license ?
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?"
it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
"
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote."
for me, we have to show it is possible before progressing with this. Other countries may show how. But it has to be free and easy. It's not that lower income would struggle, just some people could struggle.
I've said it earlier. It's a trade off that needs to shown has the tilt in the right direction. And as evidence of voter fraud is low, let alone being shown to impact on outcomes, the risk of disenfranchised has to be next to none.
I suspect postal fraud is higher. As its easier. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote.for me, we have to show it is possible before progressing with this. Other countries may show how. But it has to be free and easy. It's not that lower income would struggle, just some people could struggle.
I've said it earlier. It's a trade off that needs to shown has the tilt in the right direction. And as evidence of voter fraud is low, let alone being shown to impact on outcomes, the risk of disenfranchised has to be next to none.
I suspect postal fraud is higher. As its easier. "
The free Electoral Card system seems to work well in Northern Ireland and I imagine that will be duplicated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote.for me, we have to show it is possible before progressing with this. Other countries may show how. But it has to be free and easy. It's not that lower income would struggle, just some people could struggle.
I've said it earlier. It's a trade off that needs to shown has the tilt in the right direction. And as evidence of voter fraud is low, let alone being shown to impact on outcomes, the risk of disenfranchised has to be next to none.
I suspect postal fraud is higher. As its easier.
The free Electoral Card system seems to work well in Northern Ireland and I imagine that will be duplicated."
I've had a look at the process. It's not super simple. Without photo ID (!) you need to get your MP, MLA or councillor to sign a letter warranting the photo is a likeness. So presumably need a face to face meeting.
Or you need to get to the electoral office in person.
Its workable but not easy. So needs to be offsetting some sort of actual issue.
It's a solution looking for a problem... until someone shows me we have a fraud issue. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote."
How to make ID accessible if it is needed, there's the rub.
I'd challenge anybody to prove that this aspect has been addressed at all by those who have imposed the photo ID rule, and that this isn't all about a desperate attempt to keep the crooks in power.
As for the 'patronising' part, that's just so much BS. There are going to practical challenges in getting acceptable photo ID - the whole thing is designed to present these to those less likely to vote tory. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote.
How to make ID accessible if it is needed, there's the rub.
I'd challenge anybody to prove that this aspect has been addressed at all by those who have imposed the photo ID rule, and that this isn't all about a desperate attempt to keep the crooks in power.
"
If you search on the gov.uk website you will see the research and consulation process which precedes any legislation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Compulsory ID cards is often seen as the Thin End of the Wedge. Start using it for voting, and what comes next that you need to show it for? Personally, I have no issue with the concept of a national identity card that shows all your details. I have NHS numbers, national insurance number, 'government gateway' IDs, driving licences, poll card details, council tax details etc, and you may have benefits, disability badges, or any other number of details held about you on dozens of separate databases and systems. Put it all on one unique ID assigned per person. Use it for EVERYTHING. But, I do do have a problem with how it will be implemented and how much it will costs, so I can foresee and endless cycle of using all these costly and inefficient individual systems while moaning about but never producing an alternative single use system. |
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"Looking at some numbers.
Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud.
In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud.
Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?
Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ?
Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening?
Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Wow! U really are clueless!! x
Thanks for your considered and intelligent response. "
More than welcome!! X |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"
Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud!
More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play.
Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports.
I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote.
How to make ID accessible if it is needed, there's the rub.
I'd challenge anybody to prove that this aspect has been addressed at all by those who have imposed the photo ID rule, and that this isn't all about a desperate attempt to keep the crooks in power.
If you search on the gov.uk website you will see the research and consulation process which precedes any legislation."
How about you point me to the link on research and consultation about this one, then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
How about you point me to the link on research and consultation about this one, then?"
We can't post third party links but the internet is your friend. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
There is no argument for voter ID in the UK that stands up to any scrutiny, and that’s because it’s aim is solely voter disenfranchisement. The purpose of the scheme is to ensure those who have less money don’t vote, because those people typically do not vote for the Conservatives.
It should be obvious as this system will introduce unnecessary friction into a voting system that is already underused by the voting population. It’s a voter discouragement scheme, nothing more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is no argument for voter ID in the UK that stands up to any scrutiny, and that’s because it’s aim is solely voter disenfranchisement. The purpose of the scheme is to ensure those who have less money don’t vote, because those people typically do not vote for the Conservatives.
It should be obvious as this system will introduce unnecessary friction into a voting system that is already underused by the voting population. It’s a voter discouragement scheme, nothing more."
You say that as if it's a bad thing. |
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By *htcMan
over a year ago
MK |
Should be everyone has to register a fingerprint, name, address and mobile number to a database. Also helps prevent crime as can easily track criminals down.
If you go to a polling station you have to provide fingerprint.
If you vote by post you have to provide a six digit code sent by text
It's your responsibility to ensure you keep records upto date or they can fine you.
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"Should be everyone has to register a fingerprint, name, address and mobile number to a database. Also helps prevent crime as can easily track criminals down.
If you go to a polling station you have to provide fingerprint.
If you vote by post you have to provide a six digit code sent by text
It's your responsibility to ensure you keep records upto date or they can fine you.
"
This is far too easy and feasible a solution, but it could never get ok'd by the tories because it would make it easy for all to vote - and the curiosity value would probably get more habitual non-voters out than they want as well. |
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