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University Baby Ban
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Derby University has banned a mum from taking her little baby into lectures. Some reports say that this is on Health and Safety grounds. What is going on here guys?
Should babies be allowed in lectures after all the little mite might learn something?
It's all over the news .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And if the baby starts crying, then it disrupts the rest of the students and the lecturer from teaching the class. If I paid my extortionate tuition, I wouldn't want any distractions when I'm trying to learn |
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Yeah, I’m fine with this. Universities are bending over backwards to make their courses more open and accessible with flexible learning, blended online/offline tuition, etc etc. Taking kids with you to classes or lectures is just plain inconsiderate. |
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I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate. |
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"Derby University has banned a mum from taking her little baby into lectures. Some reports say that this is on Health and Safety grounds. What is going on here guys?
Should babies be allowed in lectures after all the little mite might learn something?
It's all over the news .."
Not much chance of learning anything at Derby Uni  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I get annoyed listening to constant crying in a restaurant.
I can't imagine other students paying loads of money would be happy to listen to crying disruption.
It's hard a single parent I get it, but it's a life lesson too. I can't bring my child to work if I have no child care. So the mother needs to find other options. |
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everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight"
100%  |
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"Not much chance of learning anything at Derby Uni
Oh, I don’t know. I did pretty well there.  "
Was this recently? It's dire at the moment - woefully under resourced and badly managed. It's a shame, even within the last couple of years I've noticed a marked decline. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate."
They can participate online. What would start out as one baby would end up with 7 or 8 and it would be disruptive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not much chance of learning anything at Derby Uni
Oh, I don’t know. I did pretty well there.
Was this recently? It's dire at the moment - woefully under resourced and badly managed. It's a shame, even within the last couple of years I've noticed a marked decline."
That's the same at every University at the moment it is not exclusively the problem of one. |
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
They can participate online. What would start out as one baby would end up with 7 or 8 and it would be disruptive. "
So we are all happy that we are going to actively exclude young mothers from actively participating in a learning environment?
If a child cry’s then it gets taken out. If a child isn’t crying then I don’t see why that parent (male or female) should be excluded. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've read several bits online about this. She's breast feeding so it's difficult (although not impossible) to do that around lectures, especially with a young baby.
She said she won't have the baby crying and disrupting the lectures.
She can't leave the baby with grandparents etc because she's breast feeding.
My experience of breast feeding was that neither of my children took to a bottle with expressed breast milk in it.
Also they fed when they wanted when they were very young so it would have been difficult to predict when they wanted feeding.
As mine got older it was easier to get a routine of feeding plus they got used to a bottle.
I say good for her for wanting to have her baby with her. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
They can participate online. What would start out as one baby would end up with 7 or 8 and it would be disruptive.
So we are all happy that we are going to actively exclude young mothers from actively participating in a learning environment?
If a child cry’s then it gets taken out. If a child isn’t crying then I don’t see why that parent (male or female) should be excluded."
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate."
Agree. I wouldn't have got my degree had I not been able to take my son into some lectures/classes. There was little online content back then. My son was aged between 3-6yrs when I attended uni. We had 6-7pm tutorials in the final year which was after the end of out of school care. He had to come with me or I simply could not have attended. The staff were perfectly supportive and he did not disrupt anyone else. We still have a book that was gifted to him by one of my lecturers - Dr. Dog (the book). |
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"everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight"
Universities don't have childcare in my experience. There are potentially nurseries nearby but the fees are far beyond the means of a full time student and the childcare grants that might be available to students would nowhere near meet the cost. |
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"I've read several bits online about this. She's breast feeding so it's difficult (although not impossible) to do that around lectures, especially with a young baby.
She said she won't have the baby crying and disrupting the lectures.
She can't leave the baby with grandparents etc because she's breast feeding.
My experience of breast feeding was that neither of my children took to a bottle with expressed breast milk in it.
Also they fed when they wanted when they were very young so it would have been difficult to predict when they wanted feeding.
As mine got older it was easier to get a routine of feeding plus they got used to a bottle.
I say good for her for wanting to have her baby with her."
Ah, wistfully remembering the days when attaching them to the boob immediately cured any and all problems |
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
Agree. I wouldn't have got my degree had I not been able to take my son into some lectures/classes. There was little online content back then. My son was aged between 3-6yrs when I attended uni. We had 6-7pm tutorials in the final year which was after the end of out of school care. He had to come with me or I simply could not have attended. The staff were perfectly supportive and he did not disrupt anyone else. We still have a book that was gifted to him by one of my lecturers - Dr. Dog (the book)."
What a lovely post. An incredible achievement for you and a meaningful early experience of education for your son. My young daughter will see me graduate next year and I hope it inspires a little something in her. |
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
Agree. I wouldn't have got my degree had I not been able to take my son into some lectures/classes. There was little online content back then. My son was aged between 3-6yrs when I attended uni. We had 6-7pm tutorials in the final year which was after the end of out of school care. He had to come with me or I simply could not have attended. The staff were perfectly supportive and he did not disrupt anyone else. We still have a book that was gifted to him by one of my lecturers - Dr. Dog (the book).
What a lovely post. An incredible achievement for you and a meaningful early experience of education for your son. My young daughter will see me graduate next year and I hope it inspires a little something in her."
My son is 20 now and he remembers attending uni, he rather enjoyed it! After our Tuesday tutorials, we went to the refectory to get a pasta meal deal, he was always given a free little portion and the lady would give him a KitKat or something on the way out, which he ate on the bus home.
I have excellent pictures from my graduation of my son in his suit, with a sonic screwdriver because he was pretending to be Dr Who 
I've had a very successful career so far, off the back of my degree education and as an educator myself now, I would always try to facilitate parents to access education.
I am sure your daughter will benefit greatly from you achieving your degree  |
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I am a university lecturer and could see that being very difficult, but that said all lectures can be recorded and extra tutorial support offered so they should be offering suitable options to enable her to study. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight
Universities don't have childcare in my experience. There are potentially nurseries nearby but the fees are far beyond the means of a full time student and the childcare grants that might be available to students would nowhere near meet the cost. "
It is a different experience locally to me as all universities have child care places and many colleges too. I have worked in one for almost 20 years and know of others. Most of the students that put their children in nursery have their childcare fees paid for them or they pay a small amount, they don't have to pay it back later, they are encouraged and supported while they are with us  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
They can participate online. What would start out as one baby would end up with 7 or 8 and it would be disruptive.
So we are all happy that we are going to actively exclude young mothers from actively participating in a learning environment?
If a child cry’s then it gets taken out. If a child isn’t crying then I don’t see why that parent (male or female) should be excluded."
They are not actively excluded. They can either participate online, or choose to go to University once the baby is old enough to go into child care.
You don't get to decide when a child cries or not, The other people in that lecture are paying thousands to be there and should not have to worry about disturbing a baby or making a noise while it's sleeping. |
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"everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight
Universities don't have childcare in my experience. There are potentially nurseries nearby but the fees are far beyond the means of a full time student and the childcare grants that might be available to students would nowhere near meet the cost.
It is a different experience locally to me as all universities have child care places and many colleges too. I have worked in one for almost 20 years and know of others. Most of the students that put their children in nursery have their childcare fees paid for them or they pay a small amount, they don't have to pay it back later, they are encouraged and supported while they are with us "
Other than a small childcare grant of £1000 per academic year, I had to pay for all my other childcare costs at university and the university did not (and still does not) have any kind of childcare facilities on-site or belonging to them. I used after school clubs where I could but I could not afford holiday clubs or similar so my son came with me to university during his half terms. Mr KC and I took turns in taking him and I was sometimes able to ask a friend who was a mature student to look after him, but obviously, she also had classes.
Not one lecturer declined my request to bring him. He did not disturb anyone and as I put in the posts above, lecturers did things like bring him books (which was unsolicited) and sat with him to colour while we worked on past papers. My university were incredibly supportive and I wouldn't have achieved my degree without it.
I had my son at 16, so either I did what everyone derides teenage parents for (sitting at home and not completing education) or I needed a bit of flexibility and support to complete my education. I appreciated the flexibility and support shown to me. |
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To elaborate, I always sat at the front of a lecture theatre or class, right by the door. If my son said he needed the loo or anything else, we quietly went outside and dealt with whatever it was. If he'd have been a younger baby, I would simply have immediately gone out of the session, had he cried. As it was, he was ages 3-6 and perfectly able to sit still, be quiet when asked to and to draw, colour, look at books, (quietly) play cars under my feet etc.
My uni notes have Power Rangers doodled around the outside *shrug* |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To elaborate, I always sat at the front of a lecture theatre or class, right by the door. If my son said he needed the loo or anything else, we quietly went outside and dealt with whatever it was. If he'd have been a younger baby, I would simply have immediately gone out of the session, had he cried. As it was, he was ages 3-6 and perfectly able to sit still, be quiet when asked to and to draw, colour, look at books, (quietly) play cars under my feet etc.
My uni notes have Power Rangers doodled around the outside *shrug*"
Fantastic memories KC and an inspiring story. |
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By *igertigerCouple (MM)
over a year ago
nr Letterkenny |
"Derby University has banned a mum from taking her little baby into lectures. Some reports say that this is on Health and Safety grounds. What is going on here guys?
Should babies be allowed in lectures after all the little mite might learn something?
It's all over the news .."
Not a creche |
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"everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight
Universities don't have childcare in my experience. There are potentially nurseries nearby but the fees are far beyond the means of a full time student and the childcare grants that might be available to students would nowhere near meet the cost.
It is a different experience locally to me as all universities have child care places and many colleges too. I have worked in one for almost 20 years and know of others. Most of the students that put their children in nursery have their childcare fees paid for them or they pay a small amount, they don't have to pay it back later, they are encouraged and supported while they are with us
Other than a small childcare grant of £1000 per academic year, I had to pay for all my other childcare costs at university and the university did not (and still does not) have any kind of childcare facilities on-site or belonging to them. I used after school clubs where I could but I could not afford holiday clubs or similar so my son came with me to university during his half terms. Mr KC and I took turns in taking him and I was sometimes able to ask a friend who was a mature student to look after him, but obviously, she also had classes.
Not one lecturer declined my request to bring him. He did not disturb anyone and as I put in the posts above, lecturers did things like bring him books (which was unsolicited) and sat with him to colour while we worked on past papers. My university were incredibly supportive and I wouldn't have achieved my degree without it.
I had my son at 16, so either I did what everyone derides teenage parents for (sitting at home and not completing education) or I needed a bit of flexibility and support to complete my education. I appreciated the flexibility and support shown to me. "
I think you are a perfect example of why we all need to be tolerant of where everyone else is in life. Genuinely impressed you did all that. |
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"Absolutely agree that in the circumstances, she should be allowed to bring the baby. Why do we make it so difficult for young mothers to participate in society?"
We're supposed to get jobs and not claim benefits and not be a burden on society etc. Fuck knows how you achieve that without finishing education, eh? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Absolutely agree that in the circumstances, she should be allowed to bring the baby. Why do we make it so difficult for young mothers to participate in society?
We're supposed to get jobs and not claim benefits and not be a burden on society etc. Fuck knows how you achieve that without finishing education, eh? "
Nobody has said that whatsoever.
There are safeguarding issues and as someone that works in the University surely you know that.
It's completely different if on occasion if a parent can't get childcare for the child turned come in as a one off but not regularly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can see both sides of it, and no having children should not be a barrier and the university should be flexible/supportive and sympathetic to the Mothers needs
However it must be a nightmare to balance that with the needs of the other students who also deserve to be studying in an environment prepared for their needs.
I wonder how the university get away with their insurances though and I should hope risk assessments are in place if they were to accommodate the child? Would they make the parent sign disclaimers admonishing the uni of any responsibility....it seems like a minefield to me.
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"Absolutely agree that in the circumstances, she should be allowed to bring the baby. Why do we make it so difficult for young mothers to participate in society?
We're supposed to get jobs and not claim benefits and not be a burden on society etc. Fuck knows how you achieve that without finishing education, eh?
Nobody has said that whatsoever.
There are safeguarding issues and as someone that works in the University surely you know that.
It's completely different if on occasion if a parent can't get childcare for the child turned come in as a one off but not regularly. "
Her point is that it is a general observation from many people in society about single mothers. No one is suggesting anyone on this thread said that. |
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"Absolutely agree that in the circumstances, she should be allowed to bring the baby. Why do we make it so difficult for young mothers to participate in society?
We're supposed to get jobs and not claim benefits and not be a burden on society etc. Fuck knows how you achieve that without finishing education, eh?
Nobody has said that whatsoever.
There are safeguarding issues and as someone that works in the University surely you know that.
It's completely different if on occasion if a parent can't get childcare for the child turned come in as a one off but not regularly. "
My son came to every single tutorial in my third year, because they were 6-7pm. There was no online stuff then. There was no accommodation of my situation as a parent by putting the class on before 6pm (which is when all after school care ended). In my third year, Mr KC had already graduated and was working offshore, so I was basically a single parent most of the time.
Most university campuses are pretty open. Members of the public can go into most buildings, there are often social spaces, cafes etc open to the public. It is up to the parent of a child to supervise them, which is exactly what I did.
I would have had no chance of achieving my degree if there'd been a blanket ban on bringing in children. In the same breath, people (back in the day) were quick to pick holes in young parents, suggesting they had babies in order to scrounge benefits or whatever. I did my GCSEs at 7 months pregnant. My A levels with a child aged 2wks to 2yrs. Took a gap year and worked. University when he was 3-6yrs. Worked at weekends and in university holidays. Worked immediately upon graduation and ever since. Yet despite that, I still got criticism for needing accommodations or ridiculed as to why I couldn't go out socialising/drinking etc.
It feels like society wants to pick holes, no matter what you do.
There is no safeguarding issue with parents keeping their own child under supervision. It's no different to taking your child into any other public building or place. Of course, I couldn't take my son into laboratory practical classes for H&S reasons. I missed classes on those occasions (and got bollocked for it sometimes  ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"everyone is there to learn. i understand the need for the child care, but most university have child care now.
no need for the child to be in a lecture at all.
sounds more like the mum wanting to pick a fight
Universities don't have childcare in my experience. There are potentially nurseries nearby but the fees are far beyond the means of a full time student and the childcare grants that might be available to students would nowhere near meet the cost.
It is a different experience locally to me as all universities have child care places and many colleges too. I have worked in one for almost 20 years and know of others. Most of the students that put their children in nursery have their childcare fees paid for them or they pay a small amount, they don't have to pay it back later, they are encouraged and supported while they are with us
Other than a small childcare grant of £1000 per academic year, I had to pay for all my other childcare costs at university and the university did not (and still does not) have any kind of childcare facilities on-site or belonging to them. I used after school clubs where I could but I could not afford holiday clubs or similar so my son came with me to university during his half terms. Mr KC and I took turns in taking him and I was sometimes able to ask a friend who was a mature student to look after him, but obviously, she also had classes.
Not one lecturer declined my request to bring him. He did not disturb anyone and as I put in the posts above, lecturers did things like bring him books (which was unsolicited) and sat with him to colour while we worked on past papers. My university were incredibly supportive and I wouldn't have achieved my degree without it.
I had my son at 16, so either I did what everyone derides teenage parents for (sitting at home and not completing education) or I needed a bit of flexibility and support to complete my education. I appreciated the flexibility and support shown to me. "
It's good that they supported you  |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
Difficult one but as the father of a daughter who had a child in her second year at uni and still graduated I can see both sides of the argument.
Our daughter had most of her childcare paid for by University grants specifically for this sort of thing. It meant that she could attend placements and the like without the worry of finding childcare from parents who both worked. The uni did say she could take the baby into lectures on the odd occasion but on the proviso that should the baby start to cry or be unsettled then she was to leave the lecture so as not to disturb the other students. As it was she never took her daughter in with her but did on occasions join the online classes with said child in her arms. |
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"Absolutely agree that in the circumstances, she should be allowed to bring the baby. Why do we make it so difficult for young mothers to participate in society?
We're supposed to get jobs and not claim benefits and not be a burden on society etc. Fuck knows how you achieve that without finishing education, eh?
Nobody has said that whatsoever.
There are safeguarding issues and as someone that works in the University surely you know that.
It's completely different if on occasion if a parent can't get childcare for the child turned come in as a one off but not regularly. "
Surprise surprise I agree with everything you’ve said on this . |
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I think it's also worth assuming this young woman knows her own child and wouldn't be pushing to take them to lectures if they were likely to spend the whole session crying or distracting her peers.
Some babies don't cry much. If I'd taken my daughter into uni as a small baby she'd have spent most of the time sleeping on me, feeding or happily taking it all in. If I'd had to leave the room momentarily to stop her crying it would have been no more distracting than another student leaving to take a phone call, go to the loo or go home early. |
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
They can participate online. What would start out as one baby would end up with 7 or 8 and it would be disruptive.
So we are all happy that we are going to actively exclude young mothers from actively participating in a learning environment?
If a child cry’s then it gets taken out. If a child isn’t crying then I don’t see why that parent (male or female) should be excluded."
ignore everyone else in the lecture, being selfish MUCH? |
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"Do men ever need to take babies in to lectures at uni? There must at be single fathers at uni.
If not, why not?"
Mr KC took my son into his classes sometimes. He was/is his stepfather, but that doesn't really matter.
Women are more likely to be the lone parent, unfortunately. |
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"Do men ever need to take babies in to lectures at uni? There must at be single fathers at uni.
If not, why not?
Mr KC took my son into his classes sometimes. He was/is his stepfather, but that doesn't really matter.
Women are more likely to be the lone parent, unfortunately. "
Exactly. |
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"Do men ever need to take babies in to lectures at uni? There must at be single fathers at uni.
If not, why not?
Mr KC took my son into his classes sometimes. He was/is his stepfather, but that doesn't really matter.
Women are more likely to be the lone parent, unfortunately.
Exactly."
It's not easy to be a student parent with your child at any age. School hours are still shorter than uni days. Some unis are now running classes on Saturdays to accommodate the increased numbers of students since 2020 and many continue until 7pm. Whether your child is 1 or 8, you will still need to either bring your child or have people who can help you outside of the times when childcare facilities are open (and students will need funding to pay for childcare facilities).
It's just another way women can end up excluded from the workforce, from higher paid jobs etc. |
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By *TG3Man
over a year ago
Dorchester |
"Derby University has banned a mum from taking her little baby into lectures. Some reports say that this is on Health and Safety grounds. What is going on here guys?
Should babies be allowed in lectures after all the little mite might learn something?
It's all over the news .."
no obviously it's disrupting the class for the other mature students  |
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"Sounds like a smart decision
Yeah. Some of us detest babies.
Someone's babies will look after you in your old age."
Think I'd prefer to be looked after by an adult, although some of them are more than capable of screaming and hollering!
Also, I'm already in my old age and it's looking more and more likely that nobody will be looking after me! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Absolutely agree that in the circumstances, she should be allowed to bring the baby. Why do we make it so difficult for young mothers to participate in society?
We're supposed to get jobs and not claim benefits and not be a burden on society etc. Fuck knows how you achieve that without finishing education, eh?
Nobody has said that whatsoever.
There are safeguarding issues and as someone that works in the University surely you know that.
It's completely different if on occasion if a parent can't get childcare for the child turned come in as a one off but not regularly.
Surprise surprise I agree with everything you’ve said on this . "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate."
Allowing someone to participate when it's going to negatively impact everyone else involved is not a great idea and just for the sake of virtue signalling.
At over £9K per year, with some courses having as little as 10-15 hours of contact time with lecturers, it isn't fair to expect everyone's expensive lectures to be disrupted by a baby.
Some courses are mostly independent study and weren't even worth the old tuition fees before they were tripled. Now if the universities wanted to funnel some of those ridiculously extortionate fees to setting up an on campus cresh, that would be a good idea, but babies should not be in lectures. Contact time is short and some lectures can be intense. Everyone needs to focus, unless they're just there to get d*unk. |
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I've taken my youngest son to a lecture I was giving as he'd fallen on the way into school. It wasn't ideal as one of the students then fainted and then it caused chaos. But in general it's hard enough to keep control of over 200 students a baby in the mix would be a tipping point.
All lectures have to be recorded now so there are better ways to deal with these scenarios. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects. "
Ok, but it wasn't for my subject from 2009-2016 and it's no doubt less now due to Covid. Taught Master's have even less contact time and PhDs are mostly independent so it's not an issue there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was just speaking to my niece about this who is currently at University to see what she thought.
She said there are 2 ladies that she knows of that have children under one who are currently on her course. Both of them have childcare during lectures as they are normally only in lectures for around 10 to 12 hours a week anyway and the Grant for childcare covers that. She is friends with one of them and she was telling her the University have been supportive. I asked my niece how should feel if the babies came to lectures and she said she wouldn't mind if it was occasional but not all the time. |
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"I've taken my youngest son to a lecture I was giving as he'd fallen on the way into school. It wasn't ideal as one of the students then fainted and then it caused chaos. But in general it's hard enough to keep control of over 200 students a baby in the mix would be a tipping point.
All lectures have to be recorded now so there are better ways to deal with these scenarios. "
But tutorials aren't and probably never will be (because of the nature of them), yet that was the bit I had to take my son for every week for two semesters, due to the 6-7pm timing. |
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"I went to maybe 10 hours of lectures in 3 years. None were compulsory, though all were fascinating."
In my experience there are compulsory elements and the uni tracks engagement with the uni. 14 days of no engagement triggers a red flag, 21 days means expulsion from the uni |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects. "
Then that's something people have to factor in when they decide to go to University and shouldn't expect other people to always accommodate them. Reasonable adjustments should always be made however We can't just say children can come into lectures. I've worked in a school environment and if a teacher or member of staff had a child they couldn't get childcare for they would not be allowed to bring my child into school. Most workplaces don't allow this so I don't know why education places should as well. As I have already said on a rare occasion I don't see it as a problem but if you say this young lady can bring in her baby before you know it you could have 6 children in a lecture. |
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"I've taken my youngest son to a lecture I was giving as he'd fallen on the way into school. It wasn't ideal as one of the students then fainted and then it caused chaos. But in general it's hard enough to keep control of over 200 students a baby in the mix would be a tipping point.
All lectures have to be recorded now so there are better ways to deal with these scenarios.
But tutorials aren't and probably never will be (because of the nature of them), yet that was the bit I had to take my son for every week for two semesters, due to the 6-7pm timing. "
Many of ours are, it's becoming rare now there's only a few rooms without recording facilities. And if they aren't available we're expected to use other means to record. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I should think it would be quite hard for the mother to concentrate with her baby there with her too, unless it was fast asleep. It puts her at a bit of a disadvantage for learning if she can't give it her full attention. You would hope nowadays there could be something in place so she didnt have to multi task in such a way. |
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects.
Then that's something people have to factor in when they decide to go to University and shouldn't expect other people to always accommodate them. Reasonable adjustments should always be made however We can't just say children can come into lectures. I've worked in a school environment and if a teacher or member of staff had a child they couldn't get childcare for they would not be allowed to bring my child into school. Most workplaces don't allow this so I don't know why education places should as well. As I have already said on a rare occasion I don't see it as a problem but if you say this young lady can bring in her baby before you know it you could have 6 children in a lecture. "
I'm not even replying to this, sorry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects.
Then that's something people have to factor in when they decide to go to University and shouldn't expect other people to always accommodate them. Reasonable adjustments should always be made however We can't just say children can come into lectures. I've worked in a school environment and if a teacher or member of staff had a child they couldn't get childcare for they would not be allowed to bring my child into school. Most workplaces don't allow this so I don't know why education places should as well. As I have already said on a rare occasion I don't see it as a problem but if you say this young lady can bring in her baby before you know it you could have 6 children in a lecture.
I'm not even replying to this, sorry. "
You just did though you just seem to be very indignant and not except that not everybody wants to pay thousands of pounds to go to University and have a child in their lecture. Having a child is a choice, Going to University is a choice and as I have already said reasonable adjustment should be mined however it is not acceptable to just say children should be allowed in lectures. |
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"I went to maybe 10 hours of lectures in 3 years. None were compulsory, though all were fascinating.
In my experience there are compulsory elements and the uni tracks engagement with the uni. 14 days of no engagement triggers a red flag, 21 days means expulsion from the uni "
Not at mine. So long as you did your essays well and went to tutorials every week, no-one cared what lectures you did, or did not go to.
But different strokes and all that. |
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"I should think it would be quite hard for the mother to concentrate with her baby there with her too, unless it was fast asleep. It puts her at a bit of a disadvantage for learning if she can't give it her full attention. You would hope nowadays there could be something in place so she didnt have to multi task in such a way. "
The uni with us has childcare facilities on campus. Which is open to allow students and staff to teach. It is more difficult when they are older and are in schools which is more difficult to work around. |
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"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do. "
No. They don't. And didn't back when I was at university.
The cost of a full time nursery place for a child under 3 is in excess of £1000 a month. How the heck is that affordable? Contrary to popular belief, students do not qualify for the vast majority of benefits and the grants offered to student parents do not go near to paying such fees. Nursery fees have increased exponentially while grants have stayed largely the same for years.
Good quality education is essential to build a highly skilled economy. We should be doing more to ensure women can participate.
Nicecouple have already made the point that it's largely women affected by these things because they end up "holding the baby". Why should the female parent have to put her ambitions in the bin while the male parent can do what he likes?
How many people on here would be bellyaching that young mothers lack drive and ambition and don't bother staying in education?!
I'm out now because otherwise I'm going to say what I really think.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
"
And men who are the primary child carers. |
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects.
Then that's something people have to factor in when they decide to go to University and shouldn't expect other people to always accommodate them. Reasonable adjustments should always be made however We can't just say children can come into lectures. I've worked in a school environment and if a teacher or member of staff had a child they couldn't get childcare for they would not be allowed to bring my child into school. Most workplaces don't allow this so I don't know why education places should as well. As I have already said on a rare occasion I don't see it as a problem but if you say this young lady can bring in her baby before you know it you could have 6 children in a lecture.
I'm not even replying to this, sorry.
You just did though you just seem to be very indignant and not except that not everybody wants to pay thousands of pounds to go to University and have a child in their lecture. Having a child is a choice, Going to University is a choice and as I have already said reasonable adjustment should be mined however it is not acceptable to just say children should be allowed in lectures. "
Lorna, my son was born when I was 16 as you well know. I had the choice of drop out of education or carry on. I carried on and do not know what?! I don't give a fig what you or anyone else thinks.
All I know is that my university supported me. My son was well behaved and I have therefore been able to pursue a good career and have not once troubled the benefits system to support me as a young parent (beyond the child benefit that all parents can claim).
I will and would support any of my students in exactly the same way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
No. They don't. And didn't back when I was at university.
The cost of a full time nursery place for a child under 3 is in excess of £1000 a month. How the heck is that affordable? Contrary to popular belief, students do not qualify for the vast majority of benefits and the grants offered to student parents do not go near to paying such fees. Nursery fees have increased exponentially while grants have stayed largely the same for years.
Good quality education is essential to build a highly skilled economy. We should be doing more to ensure women can participate.
Nicecouple have already made the point that it's largely women affected by these things because they end up "holding the baby". Why should the female parent have to put her ambitions in the bin while the male parent can do what he likes?
How many people on here would be bellyaching that young mothers lack drive and ambition and don't bother staying in education?!
I'm out now because otherwise I'm going to say what I really think.
"
You are being told by many other people that they do you just won't accept that because they didn't when you were at University. Most people will not need full time childcare at University. You are being really aggressive and Please don't threaten saying that you will say what you really think either say it or don't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate."
Yes to this! I'm sure the mum would leave if the baby started to cry.
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"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
No. They don't. And didn't back when I was at university.
The cost of a full time nursery place for a child under 3 is in excess of £1000 a month. How the heck is that affordable? Contrary to popular belief, students do not qualify for the vast majority of benefits and the grants offered to student parents do not go near to paying such fees. Nursery fees have increased exponentially while grants have stayed largely the same for years.
Good quality education is essential to build a highly skilled economy. We should be doing more to ensure women can participate.
Nicecouple have already made the point that it's largely women affected by these things because they end up "holding the baby". Why should the female parent have to put her ambitions in the bin while the male parent can do what he likes?
How many people on here would be bellyaching that young mothers lack drive and ambition and don't bother staying in education?!
I'm out now because otherwise I'm going to say what I really think.
"
For what it's worth - not much, probably! - I agree with every word. Well said. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects.
Then that's something people have to factor in when they decide to go to University and shouldn't expect other people to always accommodate them. Reasonable adjustments should always be made however We can't just say children can come into lectures. I've worked in a school environment and if a teacher or member of staff had a child they couldn't get childcare for they would not be allowed to bring my child into school. Most workplaces don't allow this so I don't know why education places should as well. As I have already said on a rare occasion I don't see it as a problem but if you say this young lady can bring in her baby before you know it you could have 6 children in a lecture.
I'm not even replying to this, sorry.
You just did though you just seem to be very indignant and not except that not everybody wants to pay thousands of pounds to go to University and have a child in their lecture. Having a child is a choice, Going to University is a choice and as I have already said reasonable adjustment should be mined however it is not acceptable to just say children should be allowed in lectures.
Lorna, my son was born when I was 16 as you well know. I had the choice of drop out of education or carry on. I carried on and do not know what?! I don't give a fig what you or anyone else thinks.
All I know is that my university supported me. My son was well behaved and I have therefore been able to pursue a good career and have not once troubled the benefits system to support me as a young parent (beyond the child benefit that all parents can claim).
I will and would support any of my students in exactly the same way."
And that's your experience but you can't expect other people to think the same way! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do. "
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
"
I do understand it is difficult for people with young children but seriously though what is the solution.
It's not practical to have babies and small children in learning environments that are not aimed at them or most work places.
I do understand people saying there should be more childcare and I do agree with that however I suppose it probably costs roughly the same to pay benefits for the parent to stay-at-home than it does full time childcare. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
"
Increasing utility costs, increase in NMW, factoring in the ratios of 1 staff to 3 babies. 1 to 4 for two year old and 1 to 8 for 3 year old, or 1:13 if you have a staff with and EYP with teacher status.....That staff won't get any more salary than her colleagues with a level 3 EYP in some Nurseries. Nurseries demand a lot from staff, a lot are degree qualified working for NMW....Long hours with just as much paperwork to do as a teacher....But with no 13 week holidays. There is a real staff crisis in the sector right now because for the pay it's not worth the stress....I love my job, I have 2 degrees and earn above minimum wage as a supervisor, but my wage is higher because my Nursery is owned by the College. Other Nurseries are not so lucky.
And one idea to cut Childcare costs for parents that the government is toying with is to increase ratios...it's a scary thought believe me
Sorry for the derailment, but wanted to dispel the myth that Nurseries receive adequate funding. |
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"I would have thought that allowing a mother to bring her baby to lectures would be a good thing for diversity and inclusion - the same as making it ok for mothers to breast feed in public. If we, as society, want to give people the right opportunities then we need to allow them to participate.
Agree. I wouldn't have got my degree had I not been able to take my son into some lectures/classes. There was little online content back then. My son was aged between 3-6yrs when I attended uni. We had 6-7pm tutorials in the final year which was after the end of out of school care. He had to come with me or I simply could not have attended. The staff were perfectly supportive and he did not disrupt anyone else. We still have a book that was gifted to him by one of my lecturers - Dr. Dog (the book).
What a lovely post. An incredible achievement for you and a meaningful early experience of education for your son. My young daughter will see me graduate next year and I hope it inspires a little something in her.
My son is 20 now and he remembers attending uni, he rather enjoyed it! After our Tuesday tutorials, we went to the refectory to get a pasta meal deal, he was always given a free little portion and the lady would give him a KitKat or something on the way out, which he ate on the bus home.
I have excellent pictures from my graduation of my son in his suit, with a sonic screwdriver because he was pretending to be Dr Who
I've had a very successful career so far, off the back of my degree education and as an educator myself now, I would always try to facilitate parents to access education.
I am sure your daughter will benefit greatly from you achieving your degree "
To the OP of this how lovely, supportive and encouraging xxx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"10-15 hours per week* (half of which are often student led seminars).
It's 20-25hrs a week for most science and engineering subjects.
Then that's something people have to factor in when they decide to go to University and shouldn't expect other people to always accommodate them. Reasonable adjustments should always be made however We can't just say children can come into lectures. I've worked in a school environment and if a teacher or member of staff had a child they couldn't get childcare for they would not be allowed to bring my child into school. Most workplaces don't allow this so I don't know why education places should as well. As I have already said on a rare occasion I don't see it as a problem but if you say this young lady can bring in her baby before you know it you could have 6 children in a lecture.
I'm not even replying to this, sorry.
You just did though you just seem to be very indignant and not except that not everybody wants to pay thousands of pounds to go to University and have a child in their lecture. Having a child is a choice, Going to University is a choice and as I have already said reasonable adjustment should be mined however it is not acceptable to just say children should be allowed in lectures.
Lorna, my son was born when I was 16 as you well know. I had the choice of drop out of education or carry on. I carried on and do not know what?! I don't give a fig what you or anyone else thinks.
All I know is that my university supported me. My son was well behaved and I have therefore been able to pursue a good career and have not once troubled the benefits system to support me as a young parent (beyond the child benefit that all parents can claim).
I will and would support any of my students in exactly the same way."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
I do understand it is difficult for people with young children but seriously though what is the solution.
It's not practical to have babies and small children in learning environments that are not aimed at them or most work places.
I do understand people saying there should be more childcare and I do agree with that however I suppose it probably costs roughly the same to pay benefits for the parent to stay-at-home than it does full time childcare. "
I just don't know what the solution is, more needs to be done, I mean education is centred around an economic discourse isn't it, the Government want you get educated to get a good job so you can pay back into society.
I agree, universities are no place for little children, but what is the solution? More funding into where it is needed? People need to be better supported and parents shouldn't feel vilified for wanting to build a better life for their child. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
I do understand it is difficult for people with young children but seriously though what is the solution.
It's not practical to have babies and small children in learning environments that are not aimed at them or most work places.
I do understand people saying there should be more childcare and I do agree with that however I suppose it probably costs roughly the same to pay benefits for the parent to stay-at-home than it does full time childcare.
I just don't know what the solution is, more needs to be done, I mean education is centred around an economic discourse isn't it, the Government want you get educated to get a good job so you can pay back into society.
I agree, universities are no place for little children, but what is the solution? More funding into where it is needed? People need to be better supported and parents shouldn't feel vilified for wanting to build a better life for their child."
I was just reading what you wrote above about the difficulties Facing nurseries and I totally get it and the 1st thing that popped into my head is that how do you solve that. I have friends that used to be childminders but gave up because of all the red tape involved and I do understand safeguarding but I just wonder if there are easier ways. For example I used to look after a friend's child 2 mornings a week When she went back to work. I was not paid for this I simply did it as a friand and I enjoyed it. This however is not permitted and is considered to be an unregistered childminder unless you are related to the child. Lifting this constraint would definitely help a lot of parents out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
I do understand it is difficult for people with young children but seriously though what is the solution.
It's not practical to have babies and small children in learning environments that are not aimed at them or most work places.
I do understand people saying there should be more childcare and I do agree with that however I suppose it probably costs roughly the same to pay benefits for the parent to stay-at-home than it does full time childcare.
I just don't know what the solution is, more needs to be done, I mean education is centred around an economic discourse isn't it, the Government want you get educated to get a good job so you can pay back into society.
I agree, universities are no place for little children, but what is the solution? More funding into where it is needed? People need to be better supported and parents shouldn't feel vilified for wanting to build a better life for their child.
I was just reading what you wrote above about the difficulties Facing nurseries and I totally get it and the 1st thing that popped into my head is that how do you solve that. I have friends that used to be childminders but gave up because of all the red tape involved and I do understand safeguarding but I just wonder if there are easier ways. For example I used to look after a friend's child 2 mornings a week When she went back to work. I was not paid for this I simply did it as a friand and I enjoyed it. This however is not permitted and is considered to be an unregistered childminder unless you are related to the child. Lifting this constraint would definitely help a lot of parents out. "
As long as the child is under 8 and you don't have them for longer than 2 hours you don't need to register. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I think the state should be doing more to provide free/affordable childcare to enable women to participate in work/education.
They already do.
How? I work in a Nursery and provision of affordable Childcare is a big issue in the sector right now
Parents of under two's get nothing towards childcare. Then when they turn two they could be eligible for 15 hours depending on what benefits they recieve. Three year olds get 30 hours...it's nothing. And I know some Nurseries are rejecting the funding because it is less than the hourly rate they would charge normally....
I do understand it is difficult for people with young children but seriously though what is the solution.
It's not practical to have babies and small children in learning environments that are not aimed at them or most work places.
I do understand people saying there should be more childcare and I do agree with that however I suppose it probably costs roughly the same to pay benefits for the parent to stay-at-home than it does full time childcare.
I just don't know what the solution is, more needs to be done, I mean education is centred around an economic discourse isn't it, the Government want you get educated to get a good job so you can pay back into society.
I agree, universities are no place for little children, but what is the solution? More funding into where it is needed? People need to be better supported and parents shouldn't feel vilified for wanting to build a better life for their child.
I was just reading what you wrote above about the difficulties Facing nurseries and I totally get it and the 1st thing that popped into my head is that how do you solve that. I have friends that used to be childminders but gave up because of all the red tape involved and I do understand safeguarding but I just wonder if there are easier ways. For example I used to look after a friend's child 2 mornings a week When she went back to work. I was not paid for this I simply did it as a friand and I enjoyed it. This however is not permitted and is considered to be an unregistered childminder unless you are related to the child. Lifting this constraint would definitely help a lot of parents out.
As long as the child is under 8 and you don't have them for longer than 2 hours you don't need to register. "
I think as if they're under 8 you can't do it or at least that's my understanding. I was looking after her for 3 hours twice a week in my own home.
My sister and her friend both had young children and thought it would be a good idea if one of them worked mornings and the other afternoon/evening I thought this would be a good reciprocal childcare arrangement but it turns out it's actually not allowed so it ended up with neither of them going back to work until the children were older and that scenes counter productive. |
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My first child was born while I was 15 and at that time (35 years ago) there were no options if you didn't have family to help out, you could only get any real help financially if you were a single parent. I left school the end of that academic year and any plans to go onto further education had to be put on hold.
I did over the years go to night classes and ended up teaching in community adult education. I do wish the support was there for me but I would only have gone into further education if I had the child care, I would have struggled with my child there so wouldn't have expected others to have to put up with it. |
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