FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Strikes…..do people support them really?
Strikes…..do people support them really?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Today it’s been announced that nurses will go on strike before Xmas over pay. The pay for nurses and the role they play is unjust compared to that of doctors, and executives. But so strikes work? Do they get the same support as decades ago?
People will say yes good for them, but is that because the strikes don’t affect you? For example you’ve been waiting for surgery for years, live in pain and have a restricted life due to the problems, you finally have your surgery date to change all that and it’s cancelled now due to the nurses strike with no replacement date for months and months. Do you agree with it now?
Fire services go on strike, minimal staffing is in place, your house burns down….still agree with the strike?
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature, and fully support calls for better pay, better conditions etc. But do strikes really work in the current climate? |
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Strikes work and have been working for centuries. Withdrawal of labour - and remember one doesn't get paid for that time - is the only power workers have.
Train companies have withdrawn 10,000s of services over the past 3 years, equivalent to 37 full days of a complete rail shutdown, AND pocketed £500 million from the government during Covid, much of which went straight to shareholders. But we don't hear about that, far worse, disruption in the mainstream media.
The workers united shall never be defeated. It's just so very easy to disunite them. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
What's the alternative?
Put up with the status quo of a government that throws billions at its mated whilst giving sweet FA to public sector workers? Carry on letting private companies and multi-nationals paying huge bonuses to bosses and distribute profits to shareholders over paying staff a fair wage?
Let companies demand longer working hours for the same pay, worse conditions and less flexibility?
Hell yes I support them. They may inconvenience some. Buy given wait lists for operations have grown massively over the past few years under the present government maybe that example wasn't a good choice.
A |
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"Not really.
1. They only work for groups with power to disrupt.
2. A wages feeding frenzy fuels inflation."
The latter isn't true. This inflation is commodity inflation which precedes any wage increases. Govt could choose to claw that back but refuses. It's a choice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I support them but I don't think they will work.
The people who can fix this shit won't be affected in the slightest. They don't use the NHS or the rail system. |
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"Not really.
1. They only work for groups with power to disrupt.
2. A wages feeding frenzy fuels inflation.
The latter isn't true. This inflation is commodity inflation which precedes any wage increases. Govt could choose to claw that back but refuses. It's a choice."
Yes and no. The trigger was indeed energy costs (same as 70's) but now the genie is out the bottle, wages do, inevitably, play into the equation. It took Mrs T and her bottle of nasty medicine to get the genie back in the bottle last time. Haven't we learned anything? |
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I do some, however I think the royal mail strikes are having a huge negative effect on royal mail as a company, they've already noted job losses are expected due to people using alternative couriers, especially over the Christmas period I think they've done more harm than good. |
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How else are individuals supposed to get the message across? We have a system of government and economic model designed for and by those at the top.
Ordinary people have no control over price increases or indeed the systems that rule them- the neo-liberal 'laisez faire' model just doesn't work.
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"Not really.
1. They only work for groups with power to disrupt.
2. A wages feeding frenzy fuels inflation.
The latter isn't true. This inflation is commodity inflation which precedes any wage increases. Govt could choose to claw that back but refuses. It's a choice.
Yes and no. The trigger was indeed energy costs (same as 70's) but now the genie is out the bottle, wages do, inevitably, play into the equation. It took Mrs T and her bottle of nasty medicine to get the genie back in the bottle last time. Haven't we learned anything?"
I have learned that my pay is worth around 23% less than it was ten years ago ( in real terms ) . That’s not acceptable or sustainable. |
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If anyone has read the news, the UK taxpayer funded bailout of Bulb energy is now at £6bn - that's public money being given to a private concern that failed.
National Grid made a £3bn profit last year. The government wouldn't invest in gas storage, so now suppliers are having to buy in gas at extra cost.
Doesn't that strike you as poor decision making? Selling our infrastructure off and then paying through the nose for it all again...
Not strictly relevant to the post, but do you get the picture?! |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
From the 2019 Tory Manifesto.
"We will build a Britain in which everyone has the opportunity to make the most of their talents. We will ensure that work will always pay. We will create a fair society, in which everyone always contributes their fair share."
If you honestly think this government has done anything to ensure that 'work will always pay' and that they've created a 'fair society'......
I have some magic beans to sell you.
A |
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"From the 2019 Tory Manifesto.
"We will build a Britain in which everyone has the opportunity to make the most of their talents. We will ensure that work will always pay. We will create a fair society, in which everyone always contributes their fair share."
If you honestly think this government has done anything to ensure that 'work will always pay' and that they've created a 'fair society'......
I have some magic beans to sell you.
A"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Strikes only work in the short term. In the longer term, though, they are actually counter productive and lead to redundancies.
Take Ford motor company, for example. Back in the 60's, I think, thecwomen who worked at Dagenham on interiors went on strike to get equal pay.
Fair play to them, they got it, but ask yourself how many are employed in this country working on interiors.
None. Ford shifted interior production to their facilities in Europe.
Look at what happened to the miners.
The post office workers currently striking are going to put themselves out of work. They are opposed to changes that the company needsvto make in order to survive in an increasingly competetive marketplace.
And their timing is bad. Customers will get so fed up, tgey'll switch to other companies - and won't come back. |
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"If anyone has read the news, the UK taxpayer funded bailout of Bulb energy is now at £6bn - that's public money being given to a private concern that failed.
National Grid made a £3bn profit last year. The government wouldn't invest in gas storage, so now suppliers are having to buy in gas at extra cost.
Doesn't that strike you as poor decision making? Selling our infrastructure off and then paying through the nose for it all again...
Not strictly relevant to the post, but do you get the picture?! "
I think it's entirely relevant. Why we're in this mess. Poor decision making and prioritising the wealthy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not really.
1. They only work for groups with power to disrupt.
2. A wages feeding frenzy fuels inflation.
The latter isn't true. This inflation is commodity inflation which precedes any wage increases. Govt could choose to claw that back but refuses. It's a choice."
Wage rises obviously fuel inflation.  |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
I don’t support strikes by public servants, they chose a career to serve people knowing whatever government is elected gets to set the strategy, pay rises etc. it’s fine to take direct action and withhold labour from greedy capitalist companies but not the people you chose to serve.
And they have very strong unions to negotiate for them all kinds of stuff like they enjoy ultimate job security, 40 hour working week clause, final salary pensions, people even do their jobs when they are sick or on leave unlike the rest of us . |
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"I don’t support strikes by public servants, they chose a career to serve people knowing whatever government is elected gets to set the strategy, pay rises etc. it’s fine to take direct action and withhold labour from greedy capitalist companies but not the people you chose to serve.
And they have very strong unions to negotiate for them all kinds of stuff like they enjoy ultimate job security, 40 hour working week clause, final salary pensions, people even do their jobs when they are sick or on leave unlike the rest of us . "
Final Salary Pension Scheme? Where have you been hiding?! |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"I don’t support strikes by public servants, they chose a career to serve people knowing whatever government is elected gets to set the strategy, pay rises etc. it’s fine to take direct action and withhold labour from greedy capitalist companies but not the people you chose to serve.
And they have very strong unions to negotiate for them all kinds of stuff like they enjoy ultimate job security, 40 hour working week clause, final salary pensions, people even do their jobs when they are sick or on leave unlike the rest of us .
Final Salary Pension Scheme? Where have you been hiding?!"
It’s changed but it’s still a defined benefits system far better than any private pension. My pension has decreased in the last 4 years! Plus all the changes they made only apply going forward. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature,
I know police and prison officers can't strike. Any others ?"
Critical infrastructure , grid, water, gas, satellite, fibre loops etc |
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"
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature,
I know police and prison officers can't strike. Any others ?
Critical infrastructure , grid, water, gas, satellite, fibre loops etc "
|
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"Today it’s been announced that nurses will go on strike before Xmas over pay. The pay for nurses and the role they play is unjust compared to that of doctors, and executives. But so strikes work? Do they get the same support as decades ago?
People will say yes good for them, but is that because the strikes don’t affect you? For example you’ve been waiting for surgery for years, live in pain and have a restricted life due to the problems, you finally have your surgery date to change all that and it’s cancelled now due to the nurses strike with no replacement date for months and months. Do you agree with it now?
Fire services go on strike, minimal staffing is in place, your house burns down….still agree with the strike?
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature, and fully support calls for better pay, better conditions etc. But do strikes really work in the current climate? "
of course strikes work in some shape or form but you can't please all of the people all of the time, remember in this day and age the strikes have to be organised so that staff are there but obviously if appointments can't be met due to them that's a worry, strikes are about discontentment and bog standard nurses are on pretty low wages for doing very demeaning but caring jobs, it's brought notice to their requirements, I personally wouldn't strike but that's me, I'd move on to a job where I could earn a living wage but some people don't have any choice.  |
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When you look at who and why it is plain to see that nurses are looking for a 17% overall increase. Others are using what excuse they can to disrupt the government and unions generally support a labour government. Its not wholly transparent and often driven by an agenda driven by left unions. However train operators do need to sit around the table and offer something but haven't yet properly engaged. I am supporter of fairness However when we can afford it and I am concerned that after covid costs and now a cost of living crisis we need to be looking at who needs it most as there is very little spare. I certainly think there are many who are over using the NHS and our welfare state that do not need too whilst preventing the ones that desperately need it. We need to stop being driven by me me me and start thinking about how and what can we do to help and support each other. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes I do
Nurses do a bluddy hard job and a job that often requires the staff to stay long after there shift is over
We would never have got through covid without our health workers that's a fact |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They don't want to strike they are being forced into it, we want to work but it's happening time and time again that workers are being forced into a corner and we have to come out fighting, this boils my piss! |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
MP- have seen a 28% pay rise since 2010
The average civil servant 12%
In real terms nurses have seen a 6% drop in earnings.
Funny how the people that make the decisions on public sector pay aren't in the same boat.
But hey. We could always clap for them, right.......
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"MP- have seen a 28% pay rise since 2010
The average civil servant 12%
In real terms nurses have seen a 6% drop in earnings.
Funny how the people that make the decisions on public sector pay aren't in the same boat.
But hey. We could always clap for them, right.......
A"
Here here,it's a joke |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature,
I know police and prison officers can't strike. Any others ?
Critical infrastructure , grid, water, gas, satellite, fibre loops etc "
Thats not true unless they have specific agreements in place. |
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Yes, they’re allowed to. I’m not some lefty militant socialist but there are lines and this is one of them.
The Royal Mail are on strike, but if you look well beneath the surface, away from Union leaflets and Management bluff, there’s a much more serious problem going on.
The core issues with Royal Mail are;
1) moving people to zero hour contracts
2) trying to push experienced workers out (10+ years)
3) redundancy pay, should be X times number of years, they just offered my dad (30 years working there) £16,000. That’s well under the mark.
4) stopping delivery of letters at the weekend.
5) Sunday working with no extra pay (ergo; voluntary)
6) removal of sick pay (this isn’t legal)
Royal Mail have been losing money for years due to poor management from the top, but these changes aren’t to save money, they’re about recuperating losses back to shareholders.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes, they’re allowed to. I’m not some lefty militant socialist but there are lines and this is one of them.
The Royal Mail are on strike, but if you look well beneath the surface, away from Union leaflets and Management bluff, there’s a much more serious problem going on.
The core issues with Royal Mail are;
1) moving people to zero hour contracts
2) trying to push experienced workers out (10+ years)
3) redundancy pay, should be X times number of years, they just offered my dad (30 years working there) £16,000. That’s well under the mark.
4) stopping delivery of letters at the weekend.
5) Sunday working with no extra pay (ergo; voluntary)
6) removal of sick pay (this isn’t legal)
Royal Mail have been losing money for years due to poor management from the top, but these changes aren’t to save money, they’re about recuperating losses back to shareholders.
"
Royal mail love waisting money it cost them 27 million to change there name to consignia then back to royal mail again |
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By *host63Man
over a year ago
Bedfont Feltham |
Strikes are unfortunate inconvenient and disrupt our lives.
But yes I do support them
Remember these are bit always about pay. Nurses particularly are treated as little more than disposable by governments and managers expect to work inhumane hours for less money than the hours study to become qualified.
Other workers striking are also often as we as money are seeing their work conditions being attacked asked to work harder for less money as staff are cut.
The rise of people rea hing the top of their pay scale then being fired and rehired with worse working conditions is on the increase.
To be honest I am in favour of a series of 3 days general strike by everyone to get rid of the government. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes, they’re allowed to. I’m not some lefty militant socialist but there are lines and this is one of them.
The Royal Mail are on strike, but if you look well beneath the surface, away from Union leaflets and Management bluff, there’s a much more serious problem going on.
The core issues with Royal Mail are;
1) moving people to zero hour contracts
2) trying to push experienced workers out (10+ years)
3) redundancy pay, should be X times number of years, they just offered my dad (30 years working there) £16,000. That’s well under the mark.
4) stopping delivery of letters at the weekend.
5) Sunday working with no extra pay (ergo; voluntary)
6) removal of sick pay (this isn’t legal)
Royal Mail have been losing money for years due to poor management from the top, but these changes aren’t to save money, they’re about recuperating losses back to shareholders.
Royal mail love waisting money it cost them 27 million to change there name to consignia then back to royal mail again"
Royal mail say they are loosing 1 million a day, what they won't say is that is profit, they were making say 20m profit a day day now its 19m, Simon Thompson and the majority shareholder are raking all the money into their own pockets whilst they are trying to take everything off the workers |
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Happy for nurses to strike but they shouldn't need too as essential services should receive fair pay.
As for train workers I really don't care, poor service for years, I hardly use the train due to that, and I just work from home whenever possible.
So do I agree with them, yes if people want to try tob use them to make their point, do I think they work - not really |
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"When you look at who and why it is plain to see that nurses are looking for a 17% overall increase. Others are using what excuse they can to disrupt the government and unions generally support a labour government. Its not wholly transparent and often driven by an agenda driven by left unions. However train operators do need to sit around the table and offer something but haven't yet properly engaged. I am supporter of fairness However when we can afford it and I am concerned that after covid costs and now a cost of living crisis we need to be looking at who needs it most as there is very little spare. I certainly think there are many who are over using the NHS and our welfare state that do not need too whilst preventing the ones that desperately need it. We need to stop being driven by me me me and start thinking about how and what can we do to help and support each other."
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100 % support from me. Its abhorant MPs have received inflation beating pay rises and have all the perks while thr people we clapped for and who were essential workers are now forgotten about. Rail and Postal are privately owned not government. I cant strike either but would if I could. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tom would back a national strike.
The first thing that Tom has said that I agree with "
Does the male half play guitar for anthrax? Just looks like Scott ian |
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"If anyone has read the news, the UK taxpayer funded bailout of Bulb energy is now at £6bn - that's public money being given to a private concern that failed.
National Grid made a £3bn profit last year. The government wouldn't invest in gas storage, so now suppliers are having to buy in gas at extra cost.
Doesn't that strike you as poor decision making? Selling our infrastructure off and then paying through the nose for it all again...
Not strictly relevant to the post, but do you get the picture?! "
Spot on |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes I agree with the principle of most of the recent strikes, because at the end of the day it's normal people like you and I, our family and relatives who have spend most of this century receiving payrises that don't keep up with the cost of living, and working conditions that are unfair involving working for free either by doing more than you should, or more hours than you should, or both.
Yes, I may be affected by any one of them (I have been affected by a train one) but that's tough, anyone who support a principle only until it affects them never truly supported it. All these businesses, and the government, should have the money to provide fair working pay and conditions. I'd swap HS2 for giving teachers and nurses a better deal, for example (I know, example and numbers pulled out of my arse but the principle is there) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes i think more people should strike when not being treated as you expect i think we are kind of lucky they are as its letting out the steam on this country and holding off the potential for much much worse thats coming once the crisis starts to really really bite in a cold and empty winter to come
Winter is coming |
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"I don’t support strikes by public servants, they chose a career to serve people knowing whatever government is elected gets to set the strategy, pay rises etc. it’s fine to take direct action and withhold labour from greedy capitalist companies but not the people you chose to serve.
And they have very strong unions to negotiate for them all kinds of stuff like they enjoy ultimate job security, 40 hour working week clause, final salary pensions, people even do their jobs when they are sick or on leave unlike the rest of us . "
So you think the government should be able impoverish public sector workers? I’m a firefighter and I don’t have a 40 hour working week or a final salary pension , I have no job security and I have to pass the same fitness test at 60 as an 18 year old has to pass , I also pay double the contributions of other public sector workers , have a much higher chance of getting cancer and have to see all sorts of horror .
Tell me why I should accept a real terms pay cut of 23% over the last ten years ? |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
Yes and no.
People have the right to strike for better pay, conditions and to realise services aren't a given.
Though; I've had enough jobs to realise positions were temporary, to be trained up from, and that no job is for life.
To me the UK has the mentality of 'busy doing nothing' but wants to be paid for it. There's hundreds of examples like no buses then 3 turning up, of phoning somewhere and being put on hold, filling needless forms, or queuing.
We know things could be easier, quicker, and people could do more but then when it comes to it people don't and are surprised when something actually arrives on time or runs smoothly.
People have expectations of pay when they are chatting and not delivering, which I don't think is the right thing.
It's a fine balance with strikes. Where companies or organisations are exceeding pay should reflect that, but striking to inflict maximum damage (Glasto, black Friday, Christmas week), on other services and sectors will only drive up prices, likely cut jobs and choices, which will only offset any pay increase received. |
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By *lueFireCouple
over a year ago
just somewhere around here |
"Tom would back a national strike.
The first thing that Tom has said that I agree with
Does the male half play guitar for anthrax? Just looks like Scott ian"
Ha ha thank you....it has been said before, I got stopped a couple of times when we saw Anthrax last month |
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"Not really.
1. They only work for groups with power to disrupt.
2. A wages feeding frenzy fuels inflation."
With inflation in double figures and some sectors not having a pay rise for 2 to 3 year how are people supposed to survive.
Companies increasing profit but driving down wages.
Rees Mogg thinks workers aren't entitled to sick pay.
Baroness Mone making millions selling unfit for purpose PPE through corrupt VIP lanes.
But hey let's blame the Unions. |
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This question will continue to get asked until the heat death of the planet.
Yes, they should strike as they see fit, as is their right.
Yes i support said right to strike.
Yes, strikes work. Wouldn’t be talking about them otherwise. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature,
I know police and prison officers can't strike. Any others ?
Critical infrastructure , grid, water, gas, satellite, fibre loops etc
Thats not true unless they have specific agreements in place."
No need - We just wouldn’t strike , ever. If we didn’t like the deal we’d move on. You don’t come to work to not do your job |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
Yes, totally. Strikes work, they benefit the wider worker and deter bosses and government from further pushing down wages and conditions.
High wages aren't causing inflation, but are instead causing inflation. Who on earth had an inflation busting pay rise before this inflation kicked in? |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"Yes and no.
To me the UK has the mentality of 'busy doing nothing' but wants to be paid for it. There's hundreds of examples like no buses then 3 turning up, of phoning somewhere and being put on hold, filling needless forms, or queuing.
We know things could be easier, quicker, and people could do more but then when it comes to it people don't and are surprised when something actually arrives on time or runs smoothly.
People have expectations of pay when they are chatting and not delivering, which I don't think is the right thing.
"
This is the real curse of low productivity in the uk.
The solution isn’t easy, you bring in new people, the existing ones will fight against them to the death to keep those broken processes and systems. If you use the existing people you will get no new insights & just replicate the broken processes.
The answer is to do what countries like UAE did. Send the entire public sector home but carry on paying them while you being im new people with new ideas. Keep them formally involved but well out of the way abd you will get the reform needed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My dad was a railway men and was involved in the winter of discontent, the deal the rail workers gained then supported their family's and their descendants and will continue to support us through the chances created by having a good living wage.
It seems the government are busy denying those gains made and plunging us back into a modern looking victorian society, some of the population already live that way.
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"My dad was a railway men and was involved in the winter of discontent, the deal the rail workers gained then supported their family's and their descendants and will continue to support us through the chances created by having a good living wage.
It seems the government are busy denying those gains made and plunging us back into a modern looking victorian society, some of the population already live that way.
"
Agreed, as a descendant of railway workers |
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Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
Royal mail is a different matter as a private company.
Should nurses get more money? Of course they should but then look at the contracts of surgeons who get paid by the NHS whilst freelancing for private healthcare |
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By *rispyDuckMan
over a year ago
Chinese Takeaway near you |
They are a pain in the arse!
But I support them
People wouldn’t be striking for no good reason,
We might not all agree with them striking cause it inconveniences us, but if we where in their shoes most of us would be striking with them too  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature,
I know police and prison officers can't strike. Any others ?"
Not sure if my sector could strike, I guess it could, if we did we would inconvenience all sectors of industry for sure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tom would back a national strike.
The first thing that Tom has said that I agree with
Does the male half play guitar for anthrax? Just looks like Scott ian
Ha ha thank you....it has been said before, I got stopped a couple of times when we saw Anthrax last month"
He also plays for Mr. bungle
https://youtu.be/L31yd2JMLSc
Check it out
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
"
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population. |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population."
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments "
Exactly |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments "
I believe that under Labour, they guaranteed a GP appointment within a day or two. And met it. The Tories recently proposed a two week guarantee.
Trying to make it seem the same is a classic Tory bullshit argument. As long as Tory mates are stealing money and giving them second jobs so they can serve corporate masters, they're golden.
Do you think defrauding the government is more in our interests than paying nurses? |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments
I believe that under Labour, they guaranteed a GP appointment within a day or two. And met it. The Tories recently proposed a two week guarantee.
Trying to make it seem the same is a classic Tory bullshit argument. As long as Tory mates are stealing money and giving them second jobs so they can serve corporate masters, they're golden.
Do you think defrauding the government is more in our interests than paying nurses?"
Again, not what I said. Wasn't it a labour government that sold off the hospitals and rented them back?
The Tories absolutely need kicking out of power, unfortunately the opposition we have at the moment are so weak that that isn't really a prospect. Yes people need to be held to account for what they've done but again whilst they're in power , that isn't really going to happen.
Also I was fbu rep when we went on strike so am not anti strike action, but balances have to be met |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments
I believe that under Labour, they guaranteed a GP appointment within a day or two. And met it. The Tories recently proposed a two week guarantee.
Trying to make it seem the same is a classic Tory bullshit argument. As long as Tory mates are stealing money and giving them second jobs so they can serve corporate masters, they're golden.
Do you think defrauding the government is more in our interests than paying nurses?
Again, not what I said. Wasn't it a labour government that sold off the hospitals and rented them back?
The Tories absolutely need kicking out of power, unfortunately the opposition we have at the moment are so weak that that isn't really a prospect. Yes people need to be held to account for what they've done but again whilst they're in power , that isn't really going to happen.
Also I was fbu rep when we went on strike so am not anti strike action, but balances have to be met"
Once again well said |
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About a quarter of Hospitals have set up food banks on site, some staff are turning up for shifts hungry..
As well as other emergency and essential services, some members of which are also having to use food banks..
It's not acceptable..
The government wrote off billions due to fraud during the pandemic and a Tory peer was bunged £29 million in her offshore account after she got her partner's dodgy PPE business on the VIP list, some of which they provided totally unfit for use..
That people are gullible enough to continue to swallow the division tactics of this government and blame emergency service personnel who have had a pay cut over the last 13 years is baffling and not a good look.. |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments
I believe that under Labour, they guaranteed a GP appointment within a day or two. And met it. The Tories recently proposed a two week guarantee.
Trying to make it seem the same is a classic Tory bullshit argument. As long as Tory mates are stealing money and giving them second jobs so they can serve corporate masters, they're golden.
Do you think defrauding the government is more in our interests than paying nurses?
Again, not what I said. Wasn't it a labour government that sold off the hospitals and rented them back?
The Tories absolutely need kicking out of power, unfortunately the opposition we have at the moment are so weak that that isn't really a prospect. Yes people need to be held to account for what they've done but again whilst they're in power , that isn't really going to happen.
Also I was fbu rep when we went on strike so am not anti strike action, but balances have to be met"
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm waiting for diagnostic scans - suspected aggressive and pretty deadly cancer in my family history.
I support the nurses unreservedly. Even if it extends my waiting time enormously.
The Tories can pay for this payrise by treating their corporate masters the way the rest of us are treated. But they don't give a shit about our health. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today it’s been announced that nurses will go on strike before Xmas over pay. The pay for nurses and the role they play is unjust compared to that of doctors, and executives. But so strikes work? Do they get the same support as decades ago?
People will say yes good for them, but is that because the strikes don’t affect you? For example you’ve been waiting for surgery for years, live in pain and have a restricted life due to the problems, you finally have your surgery date to change all that and it’s cancelled now due to the nurses strike with no replacement date for months and months. Do you agree with it now?
Fire services go on strike, minimal staffing is in place, your house burns down….still agree with the strike?
I work in a profession where we can’t strike due to its nature, and fully support calls for better pay, better conditions etc. But do strikes really work in the current climate? "
Yes they do
Maybe the surgery in question is delayed because the NHS is so short staffed.
If striking (for both Dr's and nurses as BOTH are very unpaid) works and they increase the pay which encourages more people to get into the profession then surely that's a good thing?
Or would it better for people to have to wait "years" (it's very rarely a years wait for life changing surgery) for the rest of the NHSs existence because less and less people want to get into healthcare?
I support anyone who wants to strike
Royal mail strikes cause massive inconvenience to me however I know the strike is bigger me and my packages so I just got on with it |
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"What's the alternative?
Put up with the status quo of a government that throws billions at its mated whilst giving sweet FA to public sector workers? Carry on letting private companies and multi-nationals paying huge bonuses to bosses and distribute profits to shareholders over paying staff a fair wage?
Let companies demand longer working hours for the same pay, worse conditions and less flexibility?
Hell yes I support them. They may inconvenience some. Buy given wait lists for operations have grown massively over the past few years under the present government maybe that example wasn't a good choice.
A"
Implement a work to rule, that would be harmful. Working to the rules, allows staff to carry on earning, but shows management how bad things really are.
Strike pay that the unions give you is shit. I went on strike once, I lost 7 days of pay and overtime. I was supposed to be happy with the £86 strike pay I got, it was still about 500 short of the money I would have gotten for working. |
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"What's the alternative?
Put up with the status quo of a government that throws billions at its mated whilst giving sweet FA to public sector workers? Carry on letting private companies and multi-nationals paying huge bonuses to bosses and distribute profits to shareholders over paying staff a fair wage?
Let companies demand longer working hours for the same pay, worse conditions and less flexibility?
Hell yes I support them. They may inconvenience some. Buy given wait lists for operations have grown massively over the past few years under the present government maybe that example wasn't a good choice.
A
Implement a work to rule, that would be harmful. Working to the rules, allows staff to carry on earning, but shows management how bad things really are.
Strike pay that the unions give you is shit. I went on strike once, I lost 7 days of pay and overtime. I was supposed to be happy with the £86 strike pay I got, it was still about 500 short of the money I would have gotten for working."
The fact that work to rule is harmful, shows how much healthcare staff are taken for granted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t support strikes by public servants, they chose a career to serve people knowing whatever government is elected gets to set the strategy, pay rises etc. it’s fine to take direct action and withhold labour from greedy capitalist companies but not the people you chose to serve.
And they have very strong unions to negotiate for them all kinds of stuff like they enjoy ultimate job security, 40 hour working week clause, final salary pensions, people even do their jobs when they are sick or on leave unlike the rest of us . "
40 hours a week clause? LOL?
So if places are so short staffed, that they barely have all of the shifts covered everyone should be encouraged to stick to 40 hours a week?
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By *lueFireCouple
over a year ago
just somewhere around here |
"Tom would back a national strike.
The first thing that Tom has said that I agree with
Does the male half play guitar for anthrax? Just looks like Scott ian
Ha ha thank you....it has been said before, I got stopped a couple of times when we saw Anthrax last month
He also plays for Mr. bungle
https://youtu.be/L31yd2JMLSc
Check it out
"
Love Mr Bungle....an awesome thrash supergroup  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tom would back a national strike.
The first thing that Tom has said that I agree with
Does the male half play guitar for anthrax? Just looks like Scott ian
Ha ha thank you....it has been said before, I got stopped a couple of times when we saw Anthrax last month
He also plays for Mr. bungle
https://youtu.be/L31yd2JMLSc
Check it out
Love Mr Bungle....an awesome thrash supergroup "
Have you listened to early Mr. Bungle, it was
Mike pattons first band, have a listen
https://youtu.be/I8-UmsgDU6Q |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
No I don’t although I do agree certain professions are severely under paid.
Fundamentally there is a massive recession on its way and if I was an employer and I had to lay people off I would be looking at those who had been on strike. And on the flip side, If I was an employee and new there was financial hardship in the business world leading to “stream lining” of the work force, I’d be doing all I could to make sure my job was secure as it could be.
I’m sure I’ll get shot down for my view but we are all entitled to have one. I’m self employed and it’s scary times ahead for us. |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population."
Exactly , all the people that moan about public sector pay , will also moan about the lack of nurses etc , why would anyone join nursing now for poverty wages . |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
Glad you weren’t my rep with an attitude like that .
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments
I believe that under Labour, they guaranteed a GP appointment within a day or two. And met it. The Tories recently proposed a two week guarantee.
Trying to make it seem the same is a classic Tory bullshit argument. As long as Tory mates are stealing money and giving them second jobs so they can serve corporate masters, they're golden.
Do you think defrauding the government is more in our interests than paying nurses?
Again, not what I said. Wasn't it a labour government that sold off the hospitals and rented them back?
The Tories absolutely need kicking out of power, unfortunately the opposition we have at the moment are so weak that that isn't really a prospect. Yes people need to be held to account for what they've done but again whilst they're in power , that isn't really going to happen.
Also I was fbu rep when we went on strike so am not anti strike action, but balances have to be met"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My dad was a railway men and was involved in the winter of discontent, the deal the rail workers gained then supported their family's and their descendants and will continue to support us through the chances created by having a good living wage.
It seems the government are busy denying those gains made and plunging us back into a modern looking victorian society, some of the population already live that way.
Agreed, as a descendant of railway workers"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"About a quarter of Hospitals have set up food banks on site, some staff are turning up for shifts hungry..
As well as other emergency and essential services, some members of which are also having to use food banks..
It's not acceptable..
The government wrote off billions due to fraud during the pandemic and a Tory peer was bunged £29 million in her offshore account after she got her partner's dodgy PPE business on the VIP list, some of which they provided totally unfit for use..
That people are gullible enough to continue to swallow the division tactics of this government and blame emergency service personnel who have had a pay cut over the last 13 years is baffling and not a good look.."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My dad was a railway men and was involved in the winter of discontent, the deal the rail workers gained then supported their family's and their descendants and will continue to support us through the chances created by having a good living wage.
It seems the government are busy denying those gains made and plunging us back into a modern looking victorian society, some of the population already live that way.
"
The winter of discontent led directly to a Thatcher Govt and a huge roll back of Union and worker rights. Great work! |
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"Don’t support anyone striking now we’re all struggling for fuck sake why make it worse why fuel inflation???"
How are people supposed to afford to live, if prices are rising by 10% and above but their salaries are not? Where we work, we've been lucky to have 2-3% payrises in the past 10yrs so overall, it's amounted to a pay cut overall and we belong to the group that graduated into the 2008 recession, which has had a lasting negative impact on our salaries when compared to people at the same point in their career prior to the recession.
Now, if our employer doesn't come up with a jolly decent pay rise this year, I will go on strike for the first time ever. I've managed to avoid it in the past (which was my preference because I hate causing any disruption to my students), but I will now. It's become ridiculous.
We can't recruit staff (anyone, irrespective of how good they are) because starting salaries are too low. People walk away from job offers and go elsewhere. I've had to manage a woefully understaffed department since September; Mr KC is on his own where he should have a team of 3, but we are still expected to produce the same outcomes, the same "goods".
Yes, we will expect a pay rise of 8-10% minimum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My dad was a railway men and was involved in the winter of discontent, the deal the rail workers gained then supported their family's and their descendants and will continue to support us through the chances created by having a good living wage.
It seems the government are busy denying those gains made and plunging us back into a modern looking victorian society, some of the population already live that way.
The winter of discontent led directly to a Thatcher Govt and a huge roll back of Union and worker rights. Great work!"
Thanks. |
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Well said
This has been brewing for a long time
CEO s of companies and executives screw down workers so they can boosts profits and their bonuses with no thought for those below them.
It’s not just money but workers rights have been eroded for the last couple of decades
So yes I support them |
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"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments "
|
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"Don’t support anyone striking now we’re all struggling for fuck sake why make it worse why fuel inflation???
How are people supposed to afford to live, if prices are rising by 10% and above but their salaries are not? Where we work, we've been lucky to have 2-3% payrises in the past 10yrs so overall, it's amounted to a pay cut overall and we belong to the group that graduated into the 2008 recession, which has had a lasting negative impact on our salaries when compared to people at the same point in their career prior to the recession.
Now, if our employer doesn't come up with a jolly decent pay rise this year, I will go on strike for the first time ever. I've managed to avoid it in the past (which was my preference because I hate causing any disruption to my students), but I will now. It's become ridiculous.
We can't recruit staff (anyone, irrespective of how good they are) because starting salaries are too low. People walk away from job offers and go elsewhere. I've had to manage a woefully understaffed department since September; Mr KC is on his own where he should have a team of 3, but we are still expected to produce the same outcomes, the same "goods".
Yes, we will expect a pay rise of 8-10% minimum."
But don't people who work for public good feed themselves with altruism and pay for groceries with claps? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Don't forget, public sector workers are by definition paid for by the public. So in order to give a pay rise of 17% that would need to be met by increased contributions from those working in the private sector as the public sector workers don't in real terms generate income through taxation, so not as straight forward as it seems.
I think it's an extremely worthy use of taxpayer funds and thus entirely straightforward.
It'll be paid for for a long time if the government go after corporate fraud during the pandemic, for example.
But the Tories care more about covering for criminals than a healthy population.
Of course it's a worthy use of taxpayers money, that's not what I said. The NHS is a black hole for money with all the middle management etc. The political posturing at the end is just that. Don't forget under Labour governments we were having the same arguments "
NHS must be taken out of the pathetic political crumbling deck of cards we call parliament. Take it above political ideology. Where no matter what is said and done by one party is automatically ridiculed by the others. Human health needs to be treated differently. |
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By *rhugesMan
over a year ago
Cardiff |
No I don't. I'm really fed up with public sector workers. They have jobs for life without fear of redundancy they didn't lose money through the pandemic and they have damned good pensions.
The average nurse I believe is on £35k so certainly not minimum wage.
If we do go into recession thousands of people will loss their jobs businesses and houses, the price blic sector workers will of course be sitting pretty and probably still complaining.
I work in n the private sector and the only way I would ever get anywhere near a 9 or 10% pay rise would be to get a promotion, one private sector worker would be more than happy with a 4,% payrose this year |
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"We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives...."
Very true but both Drs and Amazon drivers have possibly a family to feed, clothe and keep a roof over their head. Nhs staff do indeed need a rise in pay especially in line with inflation. So do many low paid workers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No I don't. I'm really fed up with public sector workers. They have jobs for life without fear of redundancy they didn't lose money through the pandemic and they have damned good pensions.
The average nurse I believe is on £35k so certainly not minimum wage.
If we do go into recession thousands of people will loss their jobs businesses and houses, the price blic sector workers will of course be sitting pretty and probably still complaining.
I work in n the private sector and the only way I would ever get anywhere near a 9 or 10% pay rise would be to get a promotion, one private sector worker would be more than happy with a 4,% payrose this year"
Royal mail workers are facing compulsory redundancies |
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"We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives...."
Well, if we tear the NHS apart then the Americans can make lovely lovely profit. Won't children with cancer think of the poor profit? |
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"No I don't. I'm really fed up with public sector workers. They have jobs for life without fear of redundancy they didn't lose money through the pandemic and they have damned good pensions.
The average nurse I believe is on £35k so certainly not minimum wage.
If we do go into recession thousands of people will loss their jobs businesses and houses, the price blic sector workers will of course be sitting pretty and probably still complaining.
I work in n the private sector and the only way I would ever get anywhere near a 9 or 10% pay rise would be to get a promotion, one private sector worker would be more than happy with a 4,% payrose this year"
Public sector workers don't have jobs for life.
Many workers striking at the moment are in private companies - train companies, Royal Mail etc.
Some strikes in private companies have achieved significant pay awards, e.g. Arriva buses. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives...."
30% of Nurses are not using food banks. Dr's earn 29k plus while training in practice, not fully qualified. |
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"We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives....
30% of Nurses are not using food banks. Dr's earn 29k plus while training in practice, not fully qualified."
Leo, junior doctors straight out of uni are on £28-29k and they practice without supervision. They go straight onto wards and make independent diagnosis and decisions. August is described as "killing season" in the NHS. It's when overnights and weekends and Bank Holidays are staffed entirely by newly qualified docs who haven't got much of a clue. |
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"No I don't. I'm really fed up with public sector workers. They have jobs for life without fear of redundancy they didn't lose money through the pandemic and they have damned good pensions."
In the real world, this is absolutely not true. I guess some folks (i.e. YOU) just like to say words huh? |
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"Don’t support anyone striking now we’re all struggling for fuck sake why make it worse why fuel inflation???
How are people supposed to afford to live, if prices are rising by 10% and above but their salaries are not? Where we work, we've been lucky to have 2-3% payrises in the past 10yrs so overall, it's amounted to a pay cut overall and we belong to the group that graduated into the 2008 recession, which has had a lasting negative impact on our salaries when compared to people at the same point in their career prior to the recession.
Now, if our employer doesn't come up with a jolly decent pay rise this year, I will go on strike for the first time ever. I've managed to avoid it in the past (which was my preference because I hate causing any disruption to my students), but I will now. It's become ridiculous.
We can't recruit staff (anyone, irrespective of how good they are) because starting salaries are too low. People walk away from job offers and go elsewhere. I've had to manage a woefully understaffed department since September; Mr KC is on his own where he should have a team of 3, but we are still expected to produce the same outcomes, the same "goods".
Yes, we will expect a pay rise of 8-10% minimum."
I totally agree with what you put. I'm in education and although I'm not a teacher ( I'm support staff) I go to work daily knowing that I have to deal with unruly, disruptive and sometimes pretty violent students. After 6 years I've finally got a contract of more than zero hours, I'm on minimum wage, I don't ever get a pay rise unless the government put up minimum wage, I'm expected to keep up with training,there is no extra pay for this knowledge nor is there if we have students that need medical help. I do agree with striking but when people like train drivers who are on thousands a year as it is strike then I'm sorry but I can't support that when there are so many people who struggle because minimum wage has become THE wage with no hope of it being increased other than by the government's say so. If we were to strike, we'd be unemployed. |
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"We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives....
30% of Nurses are not using food banks. Dr's earn 29k plus while training in practice, not fully qualified."
If 10% of any of those who provide essential public services are using food banks in this day and age here then that's 10% too many..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The average nurse I believe is on £35k so certainly not minimum wage.
"
Nope this is not correct. Most front line hands on nurses are band 5, they will never be paid 35k even if they enter the profession at 21 and finish at retirement age. They are forced to go up the bands to get anywhere near that pay, which usually means they would need to go into management or specialise in something. We all know some people are just not management material but they have no choice. It's the management pay as that goes up to a band 9 that bumps the average up. There's no alternative to striking, it needs to be done. |
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"I support the nurses and firefighters etc . If your like me then also be prepared to pay more tax to fund the pay increase. "
Thank you for your support , we appreciate it and none of us want to go on strike , we just have no choice now . |
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The average nurse I believe is on £35k so certainly not minimum wage.
Nope this is not correct. Most front line hands on nurses are band 5, they will never be paid 35k even if they enter the profession at 21 and finish at retirement age. They are forced to go up the bands to get anywhere near that pay, which usually means they would need to go into management or specialise in something. We all know some people are just not management material but they have no choice. It's the management pay as that goes up to a band 9 that bumps the average up. There's no alternative to striking, it needs to be done. "
To supplement (it's an NHS link). Look at band 5, which is where most nurses are and remain:
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates/agenda-change-pay-rates |
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"No I don't. I'm really fed up with public sector workers. They have jobs for life without fear of redundancy they didn't lose money through the pandemic and they have damned good pensions.
The average nurse I believe is on £35k so certainly not minimum wage.
If we do go into recession thousands of people will loss their jobs businesses and houses, the price blic sector workers will of course be sitting pretty and probably still complaining.
I work in n the private sector and the only way I would ever get anywhere near a 9 or 10% pay rise would be to get a promotion, one private sector worker would be more than happy with a 4,% payrose this year"
Absolute claptrap, jobs for life |
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100% support them. Historically, without them, our working conditions and pay would be even more insulting than they are now. No employer (private or public) ever willingly offered better pay or conditions: they’ve done so because of the pressure that has been put on them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We live in a society where 30% of nurses are using food banks. My son is a fifth year med student and will be a doctor in a few months. His starting salary is 28000 per annum. He could go abroad and triple salary on day 1. There won't be an NHS in 20 years if we don't do something different. A driver for Amazon can earn more than a doctor.... one saves lives....
30% of Nurses are not using food banks. Dr's earn 29k plus while training in practice, not fully qualified.
Leo, junior doctors straight out of uni are on £28-29k and they practice without supervision. They go straight onto wards and make independent diagnosis and decisions. August is described as "killing season" in the NHS. It's when overnights and weekends and Bank Holidays are staffed entirely by newly qualified docs who haven't got much of a clue. "
Well if they haven't got a clue then 29k sounds too much, not too little ! Lack of supervision is clearly the issue, not the level of their pay. |
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