FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Shamima Begum

Shamima Begum

By *ssex_tom OP Man over a year ago

Chelmsford

Reports that a legal process is being heard. In the Fab Court of Opinion should she be allowed back into England or left to rot where she is?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ex HolesMan over a year ago

Up North

Rot

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I cant say im all that bothered bigger problems in the uk these days

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She should be allowed back bit dealt with accordingly

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I find a lot of the people who are very anti her coming back to the uk are also very anti asylum seekers. We can't say on one hand the people coming here are a problem and their country should deal with them while expecting another country to deal with one of ours because we have washed our hands.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She should be dealt with accordingly here. She is British. Obviously one to never trust and to keep surveillance on...but I do also think she was probably just a stupid little girl. She's clearly not intelligent AT ALL.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *odgerMooreMan over a year ago

Nowhere

She should probably seek asylum in another country - I don’t think she’d be safe here - Someone would definitely go after her and I for one don’t want to pay for her protection. So in the same way people get asylum here if their life if in danger where they live she should look elsewhere for her own safety.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uer MalusMan over a year ago

Narnia

I believe we should ban all religious teaching. People are too stupid to deal with fairytales in a responsible manner.

Regarding her… sorry that she is dumb but right now we have a list of religious idiots that we can’t deal with, why add another. Of course she appears contrite, do you think she would be singing Anjem Choudary’s praises before being readmitted?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Allowed back, and treated like a British citizen. She was 15. What 'we' did to her, was far worse than what she did, and we don't have the excuse of being a child who had been brought up and groomed by extremists who trafficked her here.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *jorkishMan over a year ago

Seaforth

"Allowed back, and treated like a British citizen. She was 15. What 'we' did to her, was far worse than what she did, and we don't have the excuse of being a child who had been brought up and groomed by extremists who trafficked her here. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She should probably seek asylum in another country - I don’t think she’d be safe here - Someone would definitely go after her and I for one don’t want to pay for her protection. So in the same way people get asylum here if their life if in danger where they live she should look elsewhere for her own safety. "

Would you be happy, the British government granting asylum to someone on the grounds that someone may have a go at them in their own country..?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ull English with teaMan over a year ago

London

I have a feeling that this might be a long thread, lots of differing options and it’s only just begum…

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have a feeling that this might be a long thread, lots of differing options and it’s only just begum…"

Shamina have to think of more to say?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Allowed back as a British Citizen to answer to what she did or didn't do.

Importantly, she was a child in the eyes of the law -- and I'm pretty sure most of us changed our minds about stuff we believed as teenagers.

As far as I am aware, holding a belief, even an extremely ideological one isn't in itself a crime -- it's what you do with that belief and who you harm that matters, and I get the feeling she was just an impressionable teenager who got caught up in a moment of insanity.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She isn't entitled to seek asylum in another country because she is not at risk of persecution here.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hands up who recognises these names: Maria Bassma and Darifa Abia? Because they left the UK with Shamina Begum at the same time, only we never demonised those girls because they didn't have a handy 2nd nationality for us remove their citizenship with and are strangely absent from the conversation, because they are still British and got dealt with as British Citizens correctly.

Any anyone saying "Yeah, course I have but..." you should probably wonder why you have since I just made them up, their real names were Kadiza Sultana and Amira Abase so unless you recognised my BS, your argument is probably as baseless as my made up citizens.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hands up who recognises these names: Maria Bassma and Darifa Abia? Because they left the UK with Shamina Begum at the same time, only we never demonised those girls because they didn't have a handy 2nd nationality for us remove their citizenship with and are strangely absent from the conversation, because they are still British and got dealt with as British Citizens correctly.

Don't get talked about much because they are dead.Usually ends conversations about people coming back here

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They are dead so how exactly do you expect them to be treated as British citizens now? Also can I just point out shamina begum also does not have a second citizenship. She was not and has never been a citizen of another country.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *m3232Man over a year ago

maidenhead

Rot. Don’t say one thing if you are going to change your mind

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't get talked about much because they are dead.Usually ends conversations about people coming back here"

Actually 1 is thought killed by an airstrike, the husband of the other also but she herself is only presumed dead, whereabouts unknown. No deaths are independently confirmed. Either way, the Met Police said before SB was returned that none would face criminal charges. Indeed non did, including SB, she just had her passport ripped up and got shipped out to a Syrian refugee camp because it was quick and dirty way to get rid of her.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Rot. Don’t say one thing if you are going to change your mind"

It was the wrong decision in the 1st place. People seemed to forget she was a child when she went to Syria. Most people are all for protecting child from trafficking and grooming gangs except this one for some reason.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Her parents are Bangladeshi and she carries citizenship of that country. It is disputed by her lawyers because to acknowledge it would weaken her case.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *m3232Man over a year ago

maidenhead

"Rot. Don’t say one thing if you are going to change your mind

15 is not a child. She knew what she was doing and all around her you would have expected telling her the same.

Act like a fool get treated like one.

She needs to be made a example for others as stupid as her.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of."

You are not considered old enough or mature enough in this country to legally consent to sex, vote, join the Army, drink, drive or gamble. Yet this government has decided this child was more than aware of what she was doing and capable of making her own informed decision.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Rot. Don’t say one thing if you are going to change your mind

15 is not a child. She knew what she was doing and all around her you would have expected telling her the same.

Act like a fool get treated like one.

She needs to be made a example for others as stupid as her. "

Read my next post. And legally yes in the eyes of the law in this country 15 is a child. So the 15 year old victims of the Rotherham grooming scandal were not children? The gang that went to prison were convicted of child grooming.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *jorkishMan over a year ago

Seaforth

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"... Also can I just point out shamina begum also does not have a second citizenship. She was not and has never been a citizen of another country. "

Incorrect, at least by the UK Governments standards by which she was a citizen of Bangladesh by dint of her parents citizenship. She might not have had a passport (She didn't), she might never had stepped foot in the country (She hadn't), the government of Bangladesh itself might have said she wasn't a citizen and wouldn't be allowed in because she was not a citizen (they did say that), but she was *Bangladeshi enough* for us to say she was no longer British....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

She knew what they were about when leaving so leave her there

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"... Also can I just point out shamina begum also does not have a second citizenship. She was not and has never been a citizen of another country.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Her parents are Bangladeshi and she carries citizenship of that country. It is disputed by her lawyers because to acknowledge it would weaken her case."

She was born on Britain and used a British passport having lived here all her life.

The fact she's presumably be entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship because her parents doesn't mean she automatically has it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government "

That's got nothing to do with what I said. This is nothing to do with criminal responsibility as it has never been proven that she committed a criminal offence.

This is to do with double standards. If she was convicted of a criminal offence in this country she would be convicted as a child, She would have to have a responsible adult, She would go to a facility specifically for children so it's not even closely the same thing.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

she thought the Manchester Bombing was fair retaliation... ROT

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government "

Yes but you do know the justice system is different for juveniles? They aren't tried abd sentenced as adults

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government "

Also you are wrong the criminal age of responsibility has been 10 in this country since 1968.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"she thought the Manchester Bombing was fair retaliation... ROT"

We cannot just ignore the rule of law because we don't like what someone says.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"Would you be happy, the British government granting asylum to someone on the grounds that someone may have a go at them in their own country..?"

It doesn't matter whether anyone would be happy or not. If she has a "well founded fear of persecution", she is eligible for asylum. Whilst the tabloids still exist, I'm fairly sure that she would be hounded constantly if in the UK, and would live with the fear of vigilantes finding her.

So if she managed to get herself to - say - France, she could claim asylum, and they would be required to grant it to her.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Would you be happy, the British government granting asylum to someone on the grounds that someone may have a go at them in their own country..?

So if she managed to get herself to - say - France, she could claim asylum, and they would be required to grant it to her."

By that logic many celebrities could claim asylum in other countries because of the British tabloins still exist.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *aptainhornpipeMan over a year ago

manchester

She was radicalised and then trafficked. It was literally child abuse. We should be thinking hard about why and how this kind of thing can happen to a British born teenager. How was she radicalised how did she get out of the country. Imagine if it was one of your daughters

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"... Also can I just point out shamina begum also does not have a second citizenship. She was not and has never been a citizen of another country.

I think we're agreeing here, I'm just stating the governments legal position on the matter, which was clearly bollox but upheld by the Supreme Court as fact. This is why she's still in a Syrian refugee camp, she has no citizenship other than that which the UK says she has, even though they'd execute her is she tried to go there

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"Her parents are Bangladeshi and she carries citizenship of that country. It is disputed by her lawyers because to acknowledge it would weaken her case."

She doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship. She fits all the criteria to claim it, but has never done so.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *he terrierMan over a year ago

gateshead

Good point but she's was a British citizen who made the choice to leave UK and join the talaban she made that choice

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

We should not rescind citizenship and she should be permitted back

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *os19Man over a year ago

Edmonton

She was a 15 year old child and British citizen when all this happened.She should be allowed back into the UK and should be arrested when she arrives in the UK questioned by the authorities as to how she was groomed and if there is anything she can help the authorities so that this does not happen again.Then if there is a case to answer it should go to court to see if she is innocent or guilty and sentenced as a child because that is what she was when all this happened

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government

Also you are wrong the criminal age of responsibility has been 10 in this country since 1968. "

No,wrong

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

"She was radicalised and then trafficked. It was literally child abuse. We should be thinking hard about why and how this kind of thing can happen to a British born teenager. How was she radicalised how did she get out of the country. Imagine if it was one of your daughters "

If one of my kids was that nieve to listen to someone from a terrorist group I'd honestly want nothing to do with them. Everyone knows flying planes into buildings and blowing yourself up to kill people etc is wrong

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *aptainhornpipeMan over a year ago

manchester

"Good point but she's was a British citizen who made the choice to leave UK and join the talaban she made that choice "

She was 15 most 15 year olds make a decision to dye their hair or become a vegan we laugh about it and say they will grow out of it.

Unfortunately she was radicalised cos well teenagers are quite easy to manipulate. Unfortunately this had implications a child wouldn’t have considered.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rDiscretionXXXMan over a year ago

Gilfach

"Would you be happy, the British government granting asylum to someone on the grounds that someone may have a go at them in their own country..?"

"It doesn't matter whether anyone would be happy or not. If she has a "well founded fear of persecution", she is eligible for asylum. Whilst the tabloids still exist, I'm fairly sure that she would be hounded constantly if in the UK, and would live with the fear of vigilantes finding her.

So if she managed to get herself to - say - France, she could claim asylum, and they would be required to grant it to her."

"By that logic many celebrities could claim asylum in other countries because of the British tabloids still exist. "

I should have been clearer. What I meant was that she would live in fear of vigilantes causing her harm, having been stirred up by the tabloids finding her and publishing her address.

Celebrities get hounded by the press, but rarely get a baying mob turning up to dish out "justice".

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government

Also you are wrong the criminal age of responsibility has been 10 in this country since 1968.

No,wrong "

So what age was it before 1998?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *aptainhornpipeMan over a year ago

manchester

Let’s hope one of your kids doesn’t make a life decision that you disapprove of eh

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In an interview she talked about seeing human heads in a dustbin When asked what she thought of it,she said they deserved it. That alone means she should rot where she is

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Would you be happy, the British government granting asylum to someone on the grounds that someone may have a go at them in their own country..?

So if she managed to get herself to - say - France, she could claim asylum, and they would be required to grant it to her.

By that logic many celebrities could claim asylum in other countries because of the British tabloids still exist.

I should have been clearer. What I meant was that she would live in fear of vigilantes causing her harm, having been stirred up by the tabloids finding her and publishing her address.

Celebrities get hounded by the press, but rarely get a baying mob turning up to dish out "justice"."

You claim asylum on the grounds of persecution it has to be that your government and law enforcement would not protect you.

We have the opposite laws in this country.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Her parents are Bangladeshi and she carries citizenship of that country. It is disputed by her lawyers because to acknowledge it would weaken her case.

She doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship. She fits all the criteria to claim it, but has never done so."

Specifically, Bangladeshi law allows the children of expatriates, foreigners as well as residents in Bangladesh to examine their citizenship status and if necessary, apply for and obtain citizenship of Bangladesh. Given that foreign minister of Bangladesh has stated she isn't currently a citizen, and added that if she entered Bangladesh she would face the death penalty due to the nation's "zero tolerance policy" towards terrorism, I think it's fair to say she would not be made a citizen is she applied....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eeman1Man over a year ago

Liverpool

She should be left to rot like anyone else who leaves this country to go there and side with them. Why should we have to deal with them. She’d have to be constantly watched which is time and money. If we put her in prison it’s money and she’ll be out after a few years. Leave her where she is seen as she thought it was good to leave. At 15 you know right from wrong no matter what the law states.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

Let’s hope one of your kids doesn’t make a life decision that you disapprove of eh "

I'm pretty sure none of them will join a terrorist group

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *penbicoupleCouple over a year ago

Northampton

"Reports that a legal process is being heard. In the Fab Court of Opinion should she be allowed back into England or left to rot where she is?"

Of course she should.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Rot

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government

Also you are wrong the criminal age of responsibility has been 10 in this country since 1968.

No,wrong "

You're both slight correct and slightly wrong:

England and Wales, and Ireland, have the lowest age of criminal responsibility in Europe at 10.

This means that children under 10 can’t be arrested or charged with a crime, and children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

The age was established in 1963 but the common law principle of doli incapax afforded a degree of protection to children aged 10 to 14 by requiring the prosecution to show not only that the child had committed the alleged offence, but that they knew the behaviour was seriously wrong.

This changed in 1998, when the Labour government under Tony Blair abolished the principle by arguing that the suggestion 10-year-olds did not understand the difference ‘between naughtiness and serious wrongdoing’ was ‘contrary to common sense’.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She should be left to rot like anyone else who leaves this country to go there and side with them. Why should we have to deal with them. She’d have to be constantly watched which is time and money. If we put her in prison it’s money and she’ll be out after a few years. Leave her where she is seen as she thought it was good to leave. At 15 you know right from wrong no matter what the law states. "

Like who else though? At least 900 men Who joined is and went to Syria have since returned to the uk. So we should accept the rule of law unless it doesn't suit our narrative? A 15 year old should be protected from grooming gangs but not this one?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

She was a child at the time. We don't expect children to always make the right decision.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government

Also you are wrong the criminal age of responsibility has been 10 in this country since 1968.

No,wrong

You're both slight correct and slightly wrong:

England and Wales, and Ireland, have the lowest age of criminal responsibility in Europe at 10.

This means that children under 10 can’t be arrested or charged with a crime, and children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

I'm not wrong in the slightest I was absolutely right when I said it has been the age of 10 since 1968. I was very aware of the changing law in 1998.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We both knew joining a death cult was not a good idea at 15. Also in the days of the internet it wasn't hard at the time to see what the group was capable of.

"This government "?

The age of criminal responsibility was lowered to 10 in 1998 by Tony Blair's government

Also you are wrong the criminal age of responsibility has been 10 in this country since 1968.

No,wrong

You're both slight correct and slightly wrong:

England and Wales, and Ireland, have the lowest age of criminal responsibility in Europe at 10.

This means that children under 10 can’t be arrested or charged with a crime, and children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

I'm not wrong in the slightest I was absolutely right when I said it has been the age of 10 since 1968. I was very aware of the changing law in 1998. "

Hence *slightly*, it was 63

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *penbicoupleCouple over a year ago

Northampton

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"In an interview she talked about seeing human heads in a dustbin When asked what she thought of it,she said they deserved it. That alone means she should rot where she is"

Or that she is completely traumatised?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ex HolesMan over a year ago

Up North

Let’s say this terrorist acted on her immoral views and caused sheer devastation to countless victims and families. I wonder how many would sympathise with her then. Let her rot in the bed she made for herself.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *penbicoupleCouple over a year ago

Northampton

"In an interview she talked about seeing human heads in a dustbin When asked what she thought of it,she said they deserved it. That alone means she should rot where she is"

Or she was suffering the effects of trauma.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Let’s say this terrorist acted on her immoral views and caused sheer devastation to countless victims and families. I wonder how many would sympathise with her then. Let her rot in the bed she made for herself."

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ceehiMan over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Rot

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I will ask you the same question.

When was she charged or convicted of a terrorist offence?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *itty9899Man over a year ago

Craggy Island

Let her rot. She made her choice.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

What utter nonsense…

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *orny PTMan over a year ago

Peterborough

"She should be dealt with accordingly here. She is British. Obviously one to never trust and to keep surveillance on...but I do also think she was probably just a stupid little girl. She's clearly not intelligent AT ALL. "

But she was older than James Bulger's killers and girls are expected to be more grown up than boys. A 5 year age gap makes a huge difference, in the eyes of the law.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be making a logical connection between those of us who think she should be allowed into the UK as "sympathy". If her ultimate fate as decided legally was to rot on jail, I'd accept that if it was a UK one.

She was brought up here, schooled here, developed her childhood views here, was legally as British as I am. Let's use your logic, she acts on her views and causes sheer devastation in Syria. Think the UK will be thanked for dumping her in a refugee camp rather than dealing with it's own problem?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Let her rot. She made her choice. "

Is that not pretty much what the authorities in Rochdale said to the 15 year old grooming gang victims? Don't most people believe they were wrong to do that? Was it not the general consensus these girls at the age of 15 could not knowingly consent to what they went though and what they were made to do? Yet apparently this 15 year old girl knew exactly what she was doing and was able to consent.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence? "

Are you disputing the evidence that was presented to the then, Home Secretary, who made the decision to strip her of UK citizenship?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

But she was older than James Bulger's killers and girls are expected to be more grown up than boys. A 5 year age gap makes a huge difference, in the eyes of the law."

Well no, they'd all be treated as children, tried in a juvenile court and sent to youth offending centre. So it makes no difference in the eyes ohlf the law

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence?

Are you disputing the evidence that was presented to the then, Home Secretary, who made the decision to strip her of UK citizenship? "

You're conflating it, the HS didn't do this off the back of criminal proceedings. He did it *instead*.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence?

Are you disputing the evidence that was presented to the then, Home Secretary, who made the decision to strip her of UK citizenship? "

The uk government have admitted there is no discernible evidence that she has committed any terrorist act. She was stripped of her citizenship on the basis of national security reasons based on what she might do not what she has done. This the uk government has presented no evidence whatsoever that suggests she has committed a terror act.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *urious is the VoyeurMan over a year ago

Rickmansworth

Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I suspect she had unsavoury views at 15.

I'm fairly sure she has been involved directly or indirectly with some horrific events.

Neither of these are under debate.

The question is how much was she taken advantage of, as a 15 yo, to turn someone with unsavoury views into someone who committed these acts. And how much responsibility should we put on a 15 yo to defend from this.

The trouble with this subject is we see the outcome and have emotional views on these. She's the bad guy, not the victim.

But the manipulation bit, and the responsibility bit, is thw same for this as (date I mention it) sex grooming victims.

We need to agree what a 15 yo is or isn't responsible for in advance. And then apply that equally. Regardless of the details of the situation.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions."

What crimes has she aided?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Let her rot. She made her choice. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence?

Are you disputing the evidence that was presented to the then, Home Secretary, who made the decision to strip her of UK citizenship?

You are wrong

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence?

Are you disputing the evidence that was presented to the then, Home Secretary, who made the decision to strip her of UK citizenship?

You are wrong "

Tell me then what evidence has been put forward that she has committed a crime or a terror act?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arleyfatboy2019Couple over a year ago

Devon

I just get this nagging feeling that potentially she has been radicalised and if allowed back then , she could be the next martyr who detonated a vest bomb in a town near to you . I think the powers that be should consider this .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Funny how I keep getting told I'm wrong but no one ever tells me anything that would prove that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *orny PTMan over a year ago

Peterborough

Have we enough home grown terrorists of our own?

Are the security services not stretched enough?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When was she charged or convicted of a terror offence?

Are you disputing the evidence that was presented to the then, Home Secretary, who made the decision to strip her of UK citizenship?

You are wrong "

Strong counter argument.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just get this nagging feeling that potentially she has been radicalised and if allowed back then , she could be the next martyr who detonated a vest bomb in a town near to you . I think the powers that be should consider this . "

You can't convict people or strip them of their citizenship for something that it is possible they might do because someone has a nagging feeling. By that logic any one of us could be put in prison or stripped of our citizenship if someone thinks we might do something in the future.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I wonder how many of these no replies would be different if she was white?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Have we enough home grown terrorists of our own?

Are the security services not stretched enough?

she was one of our own!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Have we enough home grown terrorists of our own?

Are the security services not stretched enough?

Imagine if a different country did this in the other direction. Hey Britain, we don't want this potential terrorist child, but their Dad was born in Luton so you deal with it it's no longer our problem, so long suckers! You're gonna welcome that kid in are you? Or is this just a bit a national NIMBYism

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Do yiu not think that be continually demonising a child who was groomed and had never be charged with am offence the government are creating far more potential martyrs

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ex HolesMan over a year ago

Up North

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I wonder how many of these no replies would be different if she was white? "

To be fair, I don't think much. I think the religious zealotry is far outweighing a bit of racism on top.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

Let her back x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She would still be a terrorist. Simples. "

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Good point but she's was a British citizen who made the choice to leave UK and join the talaban she made that choice "

She joined the ISIS, not the Talaban who are from Afghanistan.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She would still be a terrorist. Simples. "

Agreed. If she did that, she would. So let's go to court, not drop drop her off in Syria with a pack of fig rolls and a map to the nearest grooming centre and not give a shit because it's on someone else's soil.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided? "

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

You can listen to all the arguments her solicitor will throw in the mix to get attention, or you can open your eyes to a person who joined a terrorist organisation, who refused to renounce what she had done, until she ran out of options!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"I wonder how many of these no replies would be different if she was white? "

If she was white and middle class she'd definitely be a victim in dar more people's eyes.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

Exactly.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"I wonder how many of these no replies would be different if she was white? "

If she was white and middle class she'd definitely be a victim in dar more people's eyes.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Rot.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ssex_tom OP Man over a year ago

Chelmsford

She would no doubt be given a new identity etc probably settled up north in somewhere like Yorkshire and given a new name. Ey Begum presumably

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service. "

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal "

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"I wonder how many of these no replies would be different if she was white?

If she was white and middle class she'd definitely be a victim in dar more people's eyes."

Utter subjectivity on your part and lends nothing to the facts. Poor show

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isfits behaving badlyCouple over a year ago

Coventry

[Removed by poster at 21/11/22 17:11:44]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Rot."

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rontier PsychiatristMan over a year ago

Coventry

The difficulties with this case (and understandably so regarding security sources) is its hard make judgments without all the insight. Now there's two issues here regarding assessing the security risk and the ethics regarding the treatment of the actions of young people.

It terms of security risk assessment I would say she is not as big a danger by some amount to many who live here and are already known and watched by our security services. So by the same bench mark although not desirable she could be risk managed in line with others within our community.

Now when she was encouraged to join IS she was a youth. One of the hallmarks of youth is fucking things up and being susceptible some pretty dangerous ideas. Clearly she has done this on an epic scale. But it's also worth remembering some very powerful persuasion was used with the aim to lead her down this path. I know as she's got older and things have fallen apart for her many are upset that she has been slow to recant her vile beliefs. But then what do people expect from someone who has been effectively groomed and immersed in that world from that formative stage of adolescence? Also people say she was still supporting the idiology when see passed into adult hood. But its unfair to say someone suddenly becomes fully responsible for their actions at the minute they turn 18 when they have been immersed and brainwashed into that ideology from adolescence. Especially when you weight it against the crimes shes accused of. I think we need to look passed our (understandable) outrage and apply logic and empathy for she was an adolescent at the start of this path.

I think the Home Secretary objection is far more politically motivated than it is motivated by morals weighted against security need. Based on the evidence and arguments in the public sphere I don't see logically, morally and when balanced against security risk in line with current norms why she should not be able to return and make a fresh start. Although I totally understand the outrage.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case. "

Did you also check to see if you were qualified enough to have the belief in your own legal musings?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case. "

This is the WHOLE point of this case and this thread. Not whether she did these things, or whether it can be proved, or how much she knew about the reality, or whether she's a repentant person who has learned she was wrong or an utter sly monster who just wants a better jail cell - all this is a moot point. The point is *we* should do the proper thing, get the police to gather evidence, present a case, take it court, and accept whatever punishment is handed out, whether that's a slapped wrist or a lifetime in isolation in Hull. But *we* need to do this, not just fucker her off abroad because her dad was once born somewhere else and we can't be arsed to deal with it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rettyflamingoWoman over a year ago

Where the flamboyance of flamingos live

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case. "

According to the news today she had been groomed online by isis from the age of 13 and was trafficked. If this turns out to be fact then she was brainwashed at a young age

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case.

Your emotions run to high for you to be taken seriously.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case.

Your emotions run to high for you to be taken seriously."

Only disinterested half participation is valid. Gotcha.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rettyflamingoWoman over a year ago

Where the flamboyance of flamingos live

Totally agree

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *awpleasureMan over a year ago

Sutton Coldfield

Best answer yet

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case.

Your emotions run to high for you to be taken seriously.

Only disinterested half participation is valid. Gotcha."

gotcha? Proves my point perfectly, thank you

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

Totally agree "

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will never change my mind on this one. Old enough to know better at the time. A decision was made, stick by it.

If she comes back then tried for the crimes which she aided. I'm sure there are a few families who would like to see her pay for her actions.

What crimes has she aided?

The most obvious is she joined a terrorist organisation. Do you approve of this? Other evidence exists and will surface at the right time, that has been made clear.

So no evidence whatsoever. Just evidence you think might service.

She was part of isis, she joined them, it is illegal

Last time I checked doing something illegal didn't mean you are stripped of your citizenship especially when you are not a citizen of another country.

If you do something illegal you face the Justice system that has not happened in this case.

Your emotions run to high for you to be taken seriously.

Only disinterested half participation is valid. Gotcha.

gotcha? Proves my point perfectly, thank you "

By the way, what was your point, and how was this proven? Because I'm pretty sure only you know what you are referring to here..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly? "

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Years ago my gut reaction was let her rot. But I only know what I've been told to know by a disgracefully corrupt and biased media with their own agendas... And certainly truth, justice and fairness is very far from all of their agendas.

Now with that in mind and the fact she was a child when she did whatever she did. I think she should be prosecuted for anything she's done fairly in this country. Everyone makes mistakes and I have no clue at all what her journey has been. Now the people who really need expelling are the criminals who corrupted such a young child.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally"."

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you…."
otjer than his *emotional* post that boilwwd down thw while issue

but let's ignore that to play the man (again).

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *penbicoupleCouple over a year ago

Northampton

"You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you…."

Unlike you, sweetie, with your many insightful comments in this thread.

Good show.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you…."

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If was a blatant dog whistle when she her citizenship was removed in the first place. Surely she has be be allowed back to face the justice system and all that entails?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *lex.and.SexCouple over a year ago

Bedale

Couldn't really care less compared to everything else. But I wouldn't shed a tear if she were to spend every remaining day of her life suffering to be quite honest.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ex HolesMan over a year ago

Up North

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism. "

She joined ISIS FFS and to this day still supports ISIS values and more importantly the atrocities (beheadings, suicide bombings etc) inflicted on countless innocent victims who are in her words ‘enemy of the state’. She has openly said she justified and was ‘happy’ with the Manchester bombings. Now let’s open the floor to my Manchester friends who are ‘banding’ this around who have a lifetime of pain and suffering from the hands of such people and see if they agree just because she’s not been convicted in a court of law as a terrorist then she can’t be classed as one. She was and still is prepared to do the same. In my eyes that’s a terrorist.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arleyfatboy2019Couple over a year ago

Devon

Not many of us have joined a radical terrorist group and left our country to join them . Not many of us have been involved in marrying a guy who was involved in atrocities such as throwing gay people off of tall buildings. Amputated limbs for men not having a long enough beards.

The list goes on .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tooveMan over a year ago

belfast

Rot...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This was always gonna throw open a can or worms BUT

To the people who are saying I didn't join a terrorist cult at her age - you have to remember she's REALLY stupid. Really not the brightest spark in any shape. Of course that doesn't justify anything, she's a piece of shit, but that's why she did and you didn't.

To the people saying send her somewhere else - Why would they want her?

She's not gonna have a happy life wherever she goes, that's for sure. But she is a British citizen. I really doubt she would have the brainpower to do anything sinister again and would be so heavily watched by security forces. And yes she would have a shit time here, I mean everyone knows her pug like face now, but no other country wants her.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She would no doubt be given a new identity etc probably settled up north in somewhere like Yorkshire and given a new name. Ey Begum presumably "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tooveMan over a year ago

belfast

"This was always gonna throw open a can or worms BUT

To the people saying send her somewhere else - Why would they want her?

She's not a British citizen.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism.

question seems to be was she groomed and should that be a consideration before making her stateless.

Imo she was groomed, it should be a consideration... And I don't know if that should change the outcome (legally or morally).

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho."

I don’t throw things into the mix that are utter nonsense and subjective, like you do. That was my point in regards to your replies. To drill down further, you saying she was treated this way because her dad was born elsewhere, is one example and pure fiction on your part.

You are happy to put this whole country down with no evidence to prove you are right about a terrorist.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Rot. Don’t say one thing if you are going to change your mind

15 is not a child. She knew what she was doing and all around her you would have expected telling her the same.

Act like a fool get treated like one.

She needs to be made a example for others as stupid as her. "

Act like a fool , get treated like one is a dictum many people should bear in mind - especially all the 15 year old adults.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism.

Agreed, on the whole. Let's prosecute her, not take someone we suspect to be a terrorist who is a national security risk to one of the most dangerous places on the planet for breeding and say "You have her, nothing to do with us", allowing her to continue acting in whatever ways are deemed a threat to our security. We need to separate what she did, from what we did. Both were wrong. But we can do something about it, whilever she's in our jurisdiction. She can't be that dangerous or we'd lock her up now. Who would accept sending someone that dangerous back to terrorism school? She needs to be prosecuted, not sent to live with more ISIS types.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ovingSussexLifeMan over a year ago

West Sussex

I have very little sympathy for her.

If she comes back, she'll cost the tax payer a fortune in either keeping her in prison, or setting her up with a new life and monitoring her.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho.

You are happy to put this whole country down with no evidence to prove you are right about a terrorist.

I....I don't think you've actually read this thread or my posts have you. Or indeed, have any understanding of any of the background of the case. It's OK, there were some long words.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *alandNitaCouple over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Reports that a legal process is being heard. In the Fab Court of Opinion should she be allowed back into England or left to rot where she is?"

It's a tough one... should people be punished for the choices they made as teenagers? Is she remorseful of the choices she made, or does she think it was the right choice?

Cal

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho.

You are happy to put this whole country down with no evidence to prove you are right about a terrorist.

I....I don't think you've actually read this thread or my posts have you. Or indeed, have any understanding of any of the background of the case. It's OK, there were some long words."

How many letters in a word take it from medium to long ? and vice versa

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho.

You are happy to put this whole country down with no evidence to prove you are right about a terrorist.

I....I don't think you've actually read this thread or my posts have you. Or indeed, have any understanding of any of the background of the case. It's OK, there were some long words.

How many letters in a word take it from medium to long ? and vice versa"

Why use a big word when a diminutive one will do? I'm just aiming for 175 now. Surely it's close...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

Thing is...would anybody in their right mind ever swing with her?

"Oh insert my magic wand luv...ooh ahh...just switch it on for us.."

KKKEERRBOOOOMMMM!!!!

"...by-ek babe.. the earth just shook.." [Thud]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oiluvfunMan over a year ago

Penrith

Brought back, hung, drawn and quartered, head on a spike outside Tower of London

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho.

You are happy to put this whole country down with no evidence to prove you are right about a terrorist.

I....I don't think you've actually read this thread or my posts have you. Or indeed, have any understanding of any of the background of the case. It's OK, there were some long words.

How many letters in a word take it from medium to long ? and vice versa"
not sure. But by 15 you are a big word and should be treated as such.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many letters in a word take it from medium to long ? and vice versanot sure. But by 15 you are a big word and should be treated as such. "

Actual audible laugh

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ancelot1633Man over a year ago

weybridge

Yep this

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Totally agree

What do you agree with on the above exactly?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the totality of it, hence the word "totally".

You really don’t bring a lot to the table, do you….

Clearly neither do you, just disagreeing with others rather than putting forward your own thoughts. I guess all threads need a naysayer tho.

You are happy to put this whole country down with no evidence to prove you are right about a terrorist.

I....I don't think you've actually read this thread or my posts have you. Or indeed, have any understanding of any of the background of the case. It's OK, there were some long words.

How many letters in a word take it from medium to long ? and vice versa

Why use a big word when a diminutive one will do? I'm just aiming for 175 now. Surely it's close..."

You might say it's close. I say it's conveniently adjacent.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *hrops56Man over a year ago

Telford

Let her rot

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *hil most chillMan over a year ago

South East & Europe

Totally agree "

I agree with this. Interesting how every person saying "rot" here seems to be male.

Also, anyone saying 15 is not a child, needs to have a fucking word with themselves

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

like ......twat

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Strange how Begum has never claimed she was trafficked yet her apologists know she was. Or that she's always been open about her support for IS but her apologists say she didn't know what she was doing.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *smboyMan over a year ago

Weston s mare

Ban her, let her rot.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eachcplCouple over a year ago

blackpool/preston/normandy france

Leave her there. She knew exactly what she was doing and her dodgy lawyers are trying anything to get her back into the UK. Let her rot in hell

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Left to rot. She knew full well the choices she was making. She was just too stupid to realise terrorists would dream of lying to someone. She’s a threat to Britain and its people. Who’s to say she’s not been trained over there to “play the victim” in order to get back to Britain and carry out orders? She played with fire and got burned. Let another country deal with her. She’s made her bed

Well, that’s Mondays rant over with

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Strange how Begum has never claimed she was trafficked yet her apologists know she was. Or that she's always been open about her support for IS but her apologists say she didn't know what she was doing.

."
it is the defence she is making ATM.

I think she can both be open about her support for Isis and also be groomed.

They arent mutually exclusive.

There are stories of loved up teenagers who say they knew what they were doing when they ran away with their teacher ...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism.

It doesn't matter how you look at she has not been con victim even accused of any specific terrorist offence. So let me get this straight you want people stripped of their citizenship if they say something horrific?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.it is the defence she is making ATM.

I think she can both be open about her support for Isis and also be groomed.

They arent mutually exclusive.

There are stories of loved up teenagers who say they knew what they were doing when they ran away with their teacher ... "

There is evidence she supported and was an active part of IS. There is no evidence I've seen that she was trafficked to Syria. There is evidence she lived a life where support for IS was common among her friends and family, and the pathways to join IS were well known but that is not the same thing.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

People have committed bigger crimes and have gotten away wt it or got a chance!! She shud get a chance! We all make mistakes one worse than the other

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is it really strange that you have only heard those portions of the story that fit the line that the Government and its “apologists” the media want us to read? Would it be inconceivable that someone that has been made a scapegoat would not get a fair chance to have their side heard, especially when there has been no legal proceedings whereby there has been an opportunity that story to be told?

This make me sound like an apologist to you, I assure you I believe she should have faced criminal charges that resulted in a custodial sentence, I would not apologise one iota for her beliefs or some of the things she very clearly say which were lapped up by the papers and the public. The fact that she at least was and potentially still is at best a terrorist sympathiser with extenuating circumstances for how she became one doesn’t change the fact that we didn’t deal with her.

We called her a threat to national security, but didn’t prosecute her. We took her passport and dropped her off in terrorise central. How did that keep us safe if she is a danger?

If she comes back which I believe she should be allowed to do, I expect her to be convicted on some terrorism charges or other. And I’ll feel safer that she’s not spending the rest of her life in a tent surrounded by genuine terrorists and developing a grudge that could result in actual harm to us.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yep this

Is that not exactly the sort of thing ISIS did/does?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yep this

Is that not exactly the sort of thing ISIS did/does? "

Sorry I quoted the wrong post and when I realised it was too late to delete it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arlomaleMan over a year ago

darlington

Tom and his controversial posts

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.it is the defence she is making ATM.

I think she can both be open about her support for Isis and also be groomed.

They arent mutually exclusive.

There are stories of loved up teenagers who say they knew what they were doing when they ran away with their teacher ...

And I believe it is possible to be groomed and have the veiws she holds and make the statements she makes.

I think it could be a valid defence, and I wouldn't want to make a person stateless whinwas groomed.

I do think she should have a trail if she returns. And grooming would not, in itself, mean she shouldn't be punished. Albeit it's a mitigating circumstance.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.it is the defence she is making ATM.

I think she can both be open about her support for Isis and also be groomed.

They arent mutually exclusive.

There are stories of loved up teenagers who say they knew what they were doing when they ran away with their teacher ...

And I believe it is possible to be groomed and have the veiws she holds and make the statements she makes.

I think it could be a valid defence, and I wouldn't want to make a person stateless whinwas groomed.

I do think she should have a trail if she returns. And grooming would not, in itself, mean she shouldn't be punished. Albeit it's a mitigating circumstance. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arlomaleMan over a year ago

darlington

I wonder what the families of the victims of the Manchester arena bombing think about her being allowed back

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I wonder what the families of the victims of the Manchester arena bombing think about her being allowed back "

But you could say that about the victims of any crime that somewhere someone has suggested was OK. But is still not a reason to strip someone of their citizenship.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *idnight RamblerMan over a year ago

Pershore

I'm pretty sure most ISIS Brits have been snuck back into the UK. Shamima Begum was an anomaly because she had dual citizenship, and it feels like there is a witch hunt against her. I deplore what she did, but we must be fair minded.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ex HolesMan over a year ago

Up North

She would still be a terrorist. Simples.

What terrorist act has she committed? You and others are banding this around but haven't provided anything to suggest even of terrorism.

No, just known terrorists who pose a real and significant security risk to my country. This rat falls under this category

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

It seems odd that she is now openly criticising Isis, given the nature of the group and how dangerous they are, given how much they know about her and her about them I would have thought her openly criticising them was basically a death sentence?

So either she's expecting full protection from our security services and an identity change with the costs involved

She's not as innocent and regretful as she's saying and still has ties to the group and it's all a facade??

My gripe is this.

At 15 I did some dumb shit, I was a moron and had also been through a pretty traumatic childhood but I would have never in a million years considered joining a group such as these.

The heinous and horrendously awful crime's they have committed,as dumb as I was I would have definitely know it was wrong.

Also would people be so sympathetic if she was male.

But here's the thing,she isn't the first and certainly won't be the last to be brainwashed by what is basically a satanic cult.

I don't think she should be allowed back to make an example.

Make future (her's and hims) consider the consequences of their actions.

I think also her legal team are being very devious and despicable saying she was a victim of child trafficking trying to guilt the powers that be into submission.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)