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Untold - The Secret World of Incels
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"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling." I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling." I get that it's uncomfortable viewing. And yes, there are definitely outliers beyond hope, but the real issue us that these are the people that others aspire to be, idolise and want to replicate their words and actions. They can't be ignored. A | |||
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"is that the anti woman group?" Yep. A | |||
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"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I get that it's uncomfortable viewing. And yes, there are definitely outliers beyond hope, but the real issue us that these are the people that others aspire to be, idolise and want to replicate their words and actions. They can't be ignored. A" The disaffected from societal norms now find it so much easier to coalesce into a group because of... thats right, social fucking media. I'm not sure a lot of these guys enjoy or aspire to these things, but, if you are rejected by everything else and find no solution to overcome it, groups like this offer a sense of community, belonging and purpose. It's desperately sad, at it's core. The accounts of those that escape the vortex of doom are quite heartbreaking to read. It's usually an easily lead young man, that would have benefited from some guidance, which appears to be sorely lacking these days and which I take, for absolute fucking granted. | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I get that it's uncomfortable viewing. And yes, there are definitely outliers beyond hope, but the real issue us that these are the people that others aspire to be, idolise and want to replicate their words and actions. They can't be ignored. A The disaffected from societal norms now find it so much easier to coalesce into a group because of... thats right, social fucking media. I'm not sure a lot of these guys enjoy or aspire to these things, but, if you are rejected by everything else and find no solution to overcome it, groups like this offer a sense of community, belonging and purpose. It's desperately sad, at it's core. The accounts of those that escape the vortex of doom are quite heartbreaking to read. It's usually an easily lead young man, that would have benefited from some guidance, which appears to be sorely lacking these days and which I take, for absolute fucking granted. " I genuinely think it stems from wanting someone else to blame for your problems. This isn't a new thing although like you said now there is an online community waiting to embrace these normally young men and radicalise them. | |||
"Ooh I've not watched it yet, but I'll give it a go soon. I'm sure I'll be left feeling a bit shitty but these things are worth watching sometimes. I'm sure soon enough someone will be along to let you know they've blown it out of proportion and incels are nothing to worry about. "There is a positive side. One of the participants has changed his outlook and recognised that the major problem was internet based and a lack of real world interaction, especially with women. But that actually highlights the danger of the online forums and groups. They prey on the already isolated and vulnerable and its easy to see that once engaged its hard for people views to be altered. But I'm pretty sickened by one of the men featured - even more so that he was perfectly happy to show his face. A But | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I get that it's uncomfortable viewing. And yes, there are definitely outliers beyond hope, but the real issue us that these are the people that others aspire to be, idolise and want to replicate their words and actions. They can't be ignored. A The disaffected from societal norms now find it so much easier to coalesce into a group because of... thats right, social fucking media. I'm not sure a lot of these guys enjoy or aspire to these things, but, if you are rejected by everything else and find no solution to overcome it, groups like this offer a sense of community, belonging and purpose. It's desperately sad, at it's core. The accounts of those that escape the vortex of doom are quite heartbreaking to read. It's usually an easily lead young man, that would have benefited from some guidance, which appears to be sorely lacking these days and which I take, for absolute fucking granted. I genuinely think it stems from wanting someone else to blame for your problems. This isn't a new thing although like you said now there is an online community waiting to embrace these normally young men and radicalise them. " I agree. Pre-internet they would only have had those around them to talk through these ideas and I suspect that most would have told them just how wrong they are face to face, given them a slap and encouraged them to get out and see how things really are. But online it's too easy for others to take the easier route of telling them they're right, that it's not their fault and that others (in this case women) are actually out to persecute and punish them. It passes the blame onto others and needs no self reflection or recognition that they're so fucking wrong. A | |||
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"Just today there was news of a guy in the US who called the police to report a girl's dad for threatening him. The dad did it because he went to her place of work (they met when he used to work there) so that he could play her a song to woo her. He followed her to the carpark, she tried to get away by going down several blocks and he chased her because "girls like that, they think it's fun and enjoy all that r*pe porn" It's filmed, this is all his own telling of it "It was difficult to watch. For him it was totally reasonable to say that only chasing her for a couple of blocks is OK, and really she should be a porn star and we all want r**e fantasies to be played out. I wasn't surprised when I saw he's g*n-toting, Trump-supporting to boot. | |||
"Its a disturbing sub culture that has resulted in murder. The ease of communicating with other like minded people, the anonymous nature of the internet and the search for clout has a lot to answer for." This! Plus the likes of Andrew Tate who until very recently was fairly mainstream making these views somehow seem valid. | |||
"Just today there was news of a guy in the US who called the police to report a girl's dad for threatening him. The dad did it because he went to her place of work (they met when he used to work there) so that he could play her a song to woo her. He followed her to the carpark, she tried to get away by going down several blocks and he chased her because "girls like that, they think it's fun and enjoy all that r*pe porn" It's filmed, this is all his own telling of it
It was difficult to watch. For him it was totally reasonable to say that only chasing her for a couple of blocks is OK, and really she should be a porn star and we all want r**e fantasies to be played out.
I wasn't surprised when I saw he's g*n-toting, Trump-supporting to boot.
"They covered this in the documentary. The online forums are awash with claims that women only enjoy sex when it's violent, they're forced and that they only get pleasure from pain. The bit where they sexualised Joan of Arc burning at the stake was a serious WTF moment. A | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I get that it's uncomfortable viewing. And yes, there are definitely outliers beyond hope, but the real issue us that these are the people that others aspire to be, idolise and want to replicate their words and actions. They can't be ignored. A The disaffected from societal norms now find it so much easier to coalesce into a group because of... thats right, social fucking media. I'm not sure a lot of these guys enjoy or aspire to these things, but, if you are rejected by everything else and find no solution to overcome it, groups like this offer a sense of community, belonging and purpose. It's desperately sad, at it's core. The accounts of those that escape the vortex of doom are quite heartbreaking to read. It's usually an easily lead young man, that would have benefited from some guidance, which appears to be sorely lacking these days and which I take, for absolute fucking granted. I genuinely think it stems from wanting someone else to blame for your problems. This isn't a new thing although like you said now there is an online community waiting to embrace these normally young men and radicalise them. I agree. Pre-internet they would only have had those around them to talk through these ideas and I suspect that most would have told them just how wrong they are face to face, given them a slap and encouraged them to get out and see how things really are. But online it's too easy for others to take the easier route of telling them they're right, that it's not their fault and that others (in this case women) are actually out to persecute and punish them. It passes the blame onto others and needs no self reflection or recognition that they're so fucking wrong. A" Yup yup. That's pretty much the case for a lot of these extreme groups. Previously, that knob at the pub might try out these ideas and be shot down very quickly indeed. If their lucky, reflect, adapt or in the very least, shut the fuck up. Now, you can pretty much find any sub group catering to your own narrow views and insecurities. With alarming ease. I suspect though, the gross individual happy to show his face, was always going to be gross, this is just the latest vehicle for their behaviour that "justifies" it. | |||
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"Its a disturbing sub culture that has resulted in murder. The ease of communicating with other like minded people, the anonymous nature of the internet and the search for clout has a lot to answer for. This! Plus the likes of Andrew Tate who until very recently was fairly mainstream making these views somehow seem valid. " And referenced in threads recently as myth-busting. | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. " Yet... You won't chase them down, yet... | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. " I think this is a good point. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule and there are women that are exceptionally dangerous to men. I do think we need to start at the root cause of this and I think that is that woman are not Put on this Earth simply to please men and whilst this attitude is a lot rarer these days than it used to be it is still quite deep rooted in many. | |||
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"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. " The whole "Karen" thing is just stupid. Usually used by those of very low intelligence. It's not funny or clever just lazy. | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. Yet... You won't chase them down, yet..." I've had a lot of rejection. I was celibate for 14 years. I've been horny all year but have only had sex 1.5 times this year. Somehow I have managed to control myyself enough to not chase them down. | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. The whole "Karen" thing is just stupid. Usually used by those of very low intelligence. It's not funny or clever just lazy." I know it might have seemed an irrelevant comment to this thread but actually I genuinely beleave this Just add to the idea that women should be seen and not heard. That if a woman has a strong opinion she is somehow entitled and I think we need to start tackling this kind of language. | |||
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"I'll watch this tomorrow, thank you for the heads up. It is scary though the way some men act towards women, and it's almost always made out like it's the women's fault If a woman is slim and pretty it's "what do you expect you're gorgeous" and if a woman is fat and/or conventionally unattractive it's "you should be glad for the attention" Or "it's only harassment cause you don't find him attractive, otherwise you'd love it" We literally can not win when it comes to that type of excessive attention from certain men " Definitely and you see comments in a similar vein on these forums practically every day. | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. I think this is a good point. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule and there are women that are exceptionally dangerous to men. I do think we need to start at the root cause of this and I think that is that woman are not Put on this Earth simply to please men and whilst this attitude is a lot rarer these days than it used to be it is still quite deep rooted in many. " I honestly think one of the root causes is how men and women tend to deal with rejection. Men take it in a different way to women. Sure, both will take it personally and may assign it to physical characteristics . But in my experience there often seems to be a tendency for men to blame the woman rejecting them rather than anything they've done themselves, as if it's the woman's fault and not theirs, that there's no rational reason to be turned down and that they don't need to change their behaviour. Maybe it's an ego thing. Men finding it harder to accept they're not wanted, not understanding why and most importantly not wanting to understand why. All it takes is for a few male mates to say 'yeah, it's not you it's her' and they don't feel the need to change. Add in online validation from other men experiencing the same and its easy to see job they get sucked into a world where women are the enemy. A | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. The whole "Karen" thing is just stupid. Usually used by those of very low intelligence. It's not funny or clever just lazy. I know it might have seemed an irrelevant comment to this thread but actually I genuinely beleave this Just add to the idea that women should be seen and not heard. That if a woman has a strong opinion she is somehow entitled and I think we need to start tackling this kind of language. " That isn't really the Karen phenomenon though. That's just Internet culture making a joke out of the overly entitled, self righteous and unpleasant. Usually to those in the service industry. I don't think it's necessarily used as a blanket term to nullify an opinionated woman. At least not by men of culture. *tips fedora* Milady. | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. I think this is a good point. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule and there are women that are exceptionally dangerous to men. I do think we need to start at the root cause of this and I think that is that woman are not Put on this Earth simply to please men and whilst this attitude is a lot rarer these days than it used to be it is still quite deep rooted in many. I honestly think one of the root causes is how men and women tend to deal with rejection. Men take it in a different way to women. Sure, both will take it personally and may assign it to physical characteristics . But in my experience there often seems to be a tendency for men to blame the woman rejecting them rather than anything they've done themselves, as if it's the woman's fault and not theirs, that there's no rational reason to be turned down and that they don't need to change their behaviour. Maybe it's an ego thing. Men finding it harder to accept they're not wanted, not understanding why and most importantly not wanting to understand why. All it takes is for a few male mates to say 'yeah, it's not you it's her' and they don't feel the need to change. Add in online validation from other men experiencing the same and its easy to see job they get sucked into a world where women are the enemy. A" Everyone gets upset when they're rejected, especially when it's someone you find really attractive but it's how to respond to the person that determines what kind of person you are I'll never understand the men who turn nasty and call me names/fat/ugly/desperate what ever when they don't get their own way but it's worth noting I've NEVER had that response after rejecting a woman | |||
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"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. The whole "Karen" thing is just stupid. Usually used by those of very low intelligence. It's not funny or clever just lazy. I know it might have seemed an irrelevant comment to this thread but actually I genuinely beleave this Just add to the idea that women should be seen and not heard. That if a woman has a strong opinion she is somehow entitled and I think we need to start tackling this kind of language. That isn't really the Karen phenomenon though. That's just Internet culture making a joke out of the overly entitled, self righteous and unpleasant. Usually to those in the service industry. I don't think it's necessarily used as a blanket term to nullify an opinionated woman. At least not by men of culture. *tips fedora* Milady." If a modest it's that part of attitude that's the problem. You could argue the insell movement is just Internet culture however it has real life impact. I'm sorry but you're not a woman that comments regularly on social media so you really wouldn't know whether it's used just to put women down or not and I can assure you it absolutely is. You don't see videos of men who are unhappy with certain customer service and ridiculed because they are seen as assertive whereas when a woman does it she is entitled. | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. Yet... You won't chase them down, yet... I've had a lot of rejection. I was celibate for 14 years. I've been horny all year but have only had sex 1.5 times this year. Somehow I have managed to control myyself enough to not chase them down. " Allegedly it's easier for us women to control because we have less testosterone and don't have the "societal pressures" of men. Loads of men still say that they can't control their sex drive. short of therapy I dont think many attempt to control it. I did the clubs this week and there are more men than women. 1 woman to every 10 guys wanking over her. That's the norm in the clubs unless they restrict it. There are whole billion pound/dollar industries designed on men's "uncontrolled sex drive". | |||
"This! Plus the likes of Andrew Tate who until very recently was fairly mainstream making these views somehow seem valid. " Where's the vomit emoji? | |||
"This! Plus the likes of Andrew Tate who until very recently was fairly mainstream making these views somehow seem valid. Where's the vomit emoji? "  | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. Yet... You won't chase them down, yet... I've had a lot of rejection. I was celibate for 14 years. I've been horny all year but have only had sex 1.5 times this year. Somehow I have managed to control myyself enough to not chase them down. Allegedly it's easier for us women to control because we have less testosterone and don't have the "societal pressures" of men. Loads of men still say that they can't control their sex drive. short of therapy I dont think many attempt to control it. I did the clubs this week and there are more men than women. 1 woman to every 10 guys wanking over her. That's the norm in the clubs unless they restrict it. There are whole billion pound/dollar industries designed on men's "uncontrolled sex drive"." This is what scares me about clubs | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. I think this is a good point. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule and there are women that are exceptionally dangerous to men. I do think we need to start at the root cause of this and I think that is that woman are not Put on this Earth simply to please men and whilst this attitude is a lot rarer these days than it used to be it is still quite deep rooted in many. I honestly think one of the root causes is how men and women tend to deal with rejection. Men take it in a different way to women. Sure, both will take it personally and may assign it to physical characteristics . But in my experience there often seems to be a tendency for men to blame the woman rejecting them rather than anything they've done themselves, as if it's the woman's fault and not theirs, that there's no rational reason to be turned down and that they don't need to change their behaviour. Maybe it's an ego thing. Men finding it harder to accept they're not wanted, not understanding why and most importantly not wanting to understand why. All it takes is for a few male mates to say 'yeah, it's not you it's her' and they don't feel the need to change. Add in online validation from other men experiencing the same and its easy to see job they get sucked into a world where women are the enemy. A" They do that for women on here who get rejected too. "Awww sweetie it's his loss! You're lovely!!" | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. Yet... You won't chase them down, yet... I've had a lot of rejection. I was celibate for 14 years. I've been horny all year but have only had sex 1.5 times this year. Somehow I have managed to control myyself enough to not chase them down. Allegedly it's easier for us women to control because we have less testosterone and don't have the "societal pressures" of men. Loads of men still say that they can't control their sex drive. short of therapy I dont think many attempt to control it. I did the clubs this week and there are more men than women. 1 woman to every 10 guys wanking over her. That's the norm in the clubs unless they restrict it. There are whole billion pound/dollar industries designed on men's "uncontrolled sex drive". This is what scares me about clubs " Don't let it put you off going to clubs as yes this does happen However I've been to many club nights and most of the time have a brilliant night. | |||
"I want to watch it - and I'm VERY interested in the subject - but I don't think my blood pressure could cope. Does it mention Jordan P? " No. Elliot Rodger but not Jordan P. A | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. Yet... You won't chase them down, yet... I've had a lot of rejection. I was celibate for 14 years. I've been horny all year but have only had sex 1.5 times this year. Somehow I have managed to control myyself enough to not chase them down. Allegedly it's easier for us women to control because we have less testosterone and don't have the "societal pressures" of men. Loads of men still say that they can't control their sex drive. short of therapy I dont think many attempt to control it. I did the clubs this week and there are more men than women. 1 woman to every 10 guys wanking over her. That's the norm in the clubs unless they restrict it. There are whole billion pound/dollar industries designed on men's "uncontrolled sex drive"."  Many women's sex drives have been dulled by hormonal contraceptives for years. Time to put the men on sex drive medication. | |||
"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. The whole "Karen" thing is just stupid. Usually used by those of very low intelligence. It's not funny or clever just lazy. I know it might have seemed an irrelevant comment to this thread but actually I genuinely beleave this Just add to the idea that women should be seen and not heard. That if a woman has a strong opinion she is somehow entitled and I think we need to start tackling this kind of language. That isn't really the Karen phenomenon though. That's just Internet culture making a joke out of the overly entitled, self righteous and unpleasant. Usually to those in the service industry. I don't think it's necessarily used as a blanket term to nullify an opinionated woman. At least not by men of culture. *tips fedora* Milady. If a modest it's that part of attitude that's the problem. You could argue the insell movement is just Internet culture however it has real life impact. I'm sorry but you're not a woman that comments regularly on social media so you really wouldn't know whether it's used just to put women down or not and I can assure you it absolutely is. You don't see videos of men who are unhappy with certain customer service and ridiculed because they are seen as assertive whereas when a woman does it she is entitled. " Where to even start? People can argue anything they want, that doesn't necessarily make it true though. Are incels part of Internet culture? I suppose without it they might not exist. So perhaps they are, does something that sets seed within this place therefore lack substance and threat? Of course not. That's churlish. Pulling out the gender card though, my word, what a risky business you enter into. I'm not sure of the relevance of that has, nor my usage of certain social medias. As a son, brother, father and uncle though I've seen my fair share, how presumptuous of you to assume my experiences, views or positions. You do not have a monopoly on outrage. And we do see men being unpleasant, threatening and untoward all the time to service providers too, they're called male Karen's. Sometimes Kevin or Ken. We haven't decided which yet. I'll let you know though when we do. | |||
"I started a thread here, way back in the before days, about Incels and asking why women who are involuntarily celibate don't become Incels. I might get a little moment of huffiness when I am rejected but I don't think I should then chase them down in the car or k*ll them. I think this is a good point. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule and there are women that are exceptionally dangerous to men. I do think we need to start at the root cause of this and I think that is that woman are not Put on this Earth simply to please men and whilst this attitude is a lot rarer these days than it used to be it is still quite deep rooted in many. I honestly think one of the root causes is how men and women tend to deal with rejection. Men take it in a different way to women. Sure, both will take it personally and may assign it to physical characteristics . But in my experience there often seems to be a tendency for men to blame the woman rejecting them rather than anything they've done themselves, as if it's the woman's fault and not theirs, that there's no rational reason to be turned down and that they don't need to change their behaviour. Maybe it's an ego thing. Men finding it harder to accept they're not wanted, not understanding why and most importantly not wanting to understand why. All it takes is for a few male mates to say 'yeah, it's not you it's her' and they don't feel the need to change. Add in online validation from other men experiencing the same and its easy to see job they get sucked into a world where women are the enemy. A" I think some of that comes from how boys are parented and presented to and treated by society. We are taught gendered norms of behaviour as we exit the birth canal. | |||
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"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I agree with this and there is a lot of low level misogyny towards women that I think definitely needs tackling 1st. People will probably pull me apart for this but words like Karen for example seem to be completely acceptable. Often this is used just to shut women up if they don't agree with something Or find something distasteful. The whole "Karen" thing is just stupid. Usually used by those of very low intelligence. It's not funny or clever just lazy. I know it might have seemed an irrelevant comment to this thread but actually I genuinely beleave this Just add to the idea that women should be seen and not heard. That if a woman has a strong opinion she is somehow entitled and I think we need to start tackling this kind of language. That isn't really the Karen phenomenon though. That's just Internet culture making a joke out of the overly entitled, self righteous and unpleasant. Usually to those in the service industry. I don't think it's necessarily used as a blanket term to nullify an opinionated woman. At least not by men of culture. *tips fedora* Milady. If a modest it's that part of attitude that's the problem. You could argue the insell movement is just Internet culture however it has real life impact. I'm sorry but you're not a woman that comments regularly on social media so you really wouldn't know whether it's used just to put women down or not and I can assure you it absolutely is. You don't see videos of men who are unhappy with certain customer service and ridiculed because they are seen as assertive whereas when a woman does it she is entitled. Where to even start? People can argue anything they want, that doesn't necessarily make it true though. Are incels part of Internet culture? I suppose without it they might not exist. So perhaps they are, does something that sets seed within this place therefore lack substance and threat? Of course not. That's churlish. Pulling out the gender card though, my word, what a risky business you enter into. I'm not sure of the relevance of that has, nor my usage of certain social medias. As a son, brother, father and uncle though I've seen my fair share, how presumptuous of you to assume my experiences, views or positions. You do not have a monopoly on outrage. And we do see men being unpleasant, threatening and untoward all the time to service providers too, they're called male Karen's. Sometimes Kevin or Ken. We haven't decided which yet. I'll let you know though when we do. " Right here is the problem. I stand by what I said you are not a woman who regularly comments on social media so for you to say what I have experienced doesn't happen is very dismissive and part of the problem. I am simply saying we need to stamp out casual words used to dismiss women and you have just proven my point by saying there isn't an a male word for it. | |||
"Pulling out the gender card though, my word, what a risky business you enter into." If you think that those who object to incel culture are 'pulling out the gender card' you may be part of the problem. | |||
"Pulling out the gender card though, my word, what a risky business you enter into. If you think that those who object to incel culture are 'pulling out the gender card' you may be part of the problem." Exactly what I implied above. | |||
"Pulling out the gender card though, my word, what a risky business you enter into. If you think that those who object to incel culture are 'pulling out the gender card' you may be part of the problem." | |||
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"Anyone who doubts that this is not a problem that is getting worse clearly doesn't hang round here much. The forums in the last few weeks has been more than a little alarming. I feel like we were making progress for a good few years. Then my youngest child heard someone (aged 13) refer to girls recently as "objects." I think some level of normalising misogyny is on the increase." Oh I know I saw someone say Andrew tate just had old fashioned views I hope to god they were trolling | |||
Men trying to justify incel culture, saying the programme is sensationalised, calling the presenter a Chad. Etc. It's bonkers how prevalent it is | |||
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"Yeah, I won't watch that ta. Life is just about miserable enough these days. Still, very real, very troubled and worrisome stuff. I think a lot of it is borne of insecurity and a lack of self confidence, I don't think all those sucked into the incel vortex of doom are necessarily lost causes, but perhaps in need of real help. Naturally there will be outliers beyond redemption, but it is something that requires tackling. I get that it's uncomfortable viewing. And yes, there are definitely outliers beyond hope, but the real issue us that these are the people that others aspire to be, idolise and want to replicate their words and actions. They can't be ignored. A The disaffected from societal norms now find it so much easier to coalesce into a group because of... thats right, social fucking media. I'm not sure a lot of these guys enjoy or aspire to these things, but, if you are rejected by everything else and find no solution to overcome it, groups like this offer a sense of community, belonging and purpose. It's desperately sad, at it's core. The accounts of those that escape the vortex of doom are quite heartbreaking to read. It's usually an easily lead young man, that would have benefited from some guidance, which appears to be sorely lacking these days and which I take, for absolute fucking granted. I genuinely think it stems from wanting someone else to blame for your problems. This isn't a new thing although like you said now there is an online community waiting to embrace these normally young men and radicalise them. " It’s your bias truE je, when I had teenage girls I was convinced the world was sexualising teenage girls. To a large degree you are responsible for the impacts and influences on your kids , the culture they live in , and the experiences you give then to get balance | |||
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"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet " Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels. | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet " The FBI and MI5. Hopefully, that answers your question. I'd add the families of those killed, but I presume that's a given? | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet The FBI and MI5. Hopefully, that answers your question. I'd add the families of those killed, but I presume that's a given?" They don’t really care. The documentary makers make most of it up. FBI will have a few nutters on the radar , not because they are incels , because they are nutters. I doubt the FBI are watching the hordes of whiny boys on here are they ? | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels." That’s true , wayward teens they are vulnerable to all kinds of things. Parents and communities need to do a much better job of bringing yo their boys , teaching them to respect women and providing good role models that society lacks. Dads have a huge responsibility even if they live apart | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels. That’s true , wayward teens they are vulnerable to all kinds of things. Parents and communities need to do a much better job of bringing yo their boys , teaching them to respect women and providing good role models that society lacks. Dads have a huge responsibility even if they live apart " If mums and dads can sort this there will be no need to send the FBI or army in | |||
"Dads have a huge responsibility even if they live apart " But there's no one left to tell those dads... who have kids... who have kids... And can we talk about how hard it is to be a dad - who wants to be involved - whilst you live apart. | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels." I think watching C4 documentary will keep you rooted in reality to about the same degree as reading the daily mail | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels. I think watching C4 documentary will keep you rooted in reality to about the same degree as reading the daily mail " Haven’t lived in the UK for a while, so don’t watch C4, and never read the Daily Fail while i was there. Other media networks have covered the issue of incels extensively, all over the globe. You may not like the delivery method, or the messenger, but the content is important. | |||
"When made the documentary ? If it’s C4 I’d honestly ignore, they will post like made to the forums to create their own stories , their create documentary to entertain stupid people Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet " OK. Just wow. Have you even watched it? Of course there's often an element of sensationalism in any TV documentary. But to say 'who cares'? Maybe the families of the victims of Elliot Rodger and Jake Davison, both of who posted online videos before committing mass murder? Maybe the families of the men sucked into an isolated online world, idolising people like them, sharing anti-female views and encouraging others to harrass and assault women? If you think they're just whiny teenage boys and not a danger to others then maybe you really should watch it. This is the kind of dismissive attitude I originally referred to in the OP. A | |||
"When made the documentary ? If it’s C4 I’d honestly ignore, they will post like made to the forums to create their own stories , their create documentary to entertain stupid people Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet " The families of the loved ones who were killed by one in Plymouth last year may see it very differently from you. | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet The FBI and MI5. Hopefully, that answers your question. I'd add the families of those killed, but I presume that's a given? They don’t really care. The documentary makers make most of it up. FBI will have a few nutters on the radar , not because they are incels , because they are nutters. I doubt the FBI are watching the hordes of whiny boys on here are they ? " Who doesn't care? The FBI and MI5 are actively monitoring incel groups. Did you not see the recent report about the rise of incels? These are not just whiny boys. These are whiny males intent on terrorist atrocities. | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels. I think watching C4 documentary will keep you rooted in reality to about the same degree as reading the daily mail " Maybe you could watch the one made by the BBC or the one on Netflix or the others that are available online. | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels. I think watching C4 documentary will keep you rooted in reality to about the same degree as reading the daily mail " It's not just a case of whiny teenage boys/men It about those who are effected by their behaviour 102 women have been killed at the hands of men since 25th Nov 2021 But no you're right, who cares?  | |||
"Who cares about incels? Whiny teenage boys and men who still live with thier mum & can’t get a girlfriend because they aren’t grown ups yet Right wing groups and hate groups care about them as they are easy to radicalize. You can dismiss them all you want and live in la la land, but they are a clear and present danger. Those of us rooted in reality will continue to pay attention to the rise of incels. I think watching C4 documentary will keep you rooted in reality to about the same degree as reading the daily mail It's not just a case of whiny teenage boys/men It about those who are effected by their behaviour 102 women have been killed at the hands of men since 25th Nov 2021 But no you're right, who cares? "And that just in the UK. | |||
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"...But no you're right, who cares? o And that just in the UK. " My teenage daughter recently heard a boy in her class refer to girls as "objects." The implications are terrifying. | |||
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"...But no you're right, who cares? o And that just in the UK. My teenage daughter recently heard a boy in her class refer to girls as "objects." The implications are terrifying." Jesus | |||
"...But no you're right, who cares? o And that just in the UK. My teenage daughter recently heard a boy in her class refer to girls as "objects." The implications are terrifying." Children that talk that are not the problem, their parents are. | |||
