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Why do doctors….
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
You’re right BMI doesn’t fit all, as long as you’re happy how you are. You look lovely x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it. |
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I used to have chest infection after chest infection and was referred to the local hospital, where I had to sit on "the chair" and had my BMI done. This came back as me being "morbidly obese". The consultant I was under then proceeded to lecture me heavily as to what that "meant" and told me what I "had" to do. I asked if said "test" took into account what/how people ate, any underlying health conditions that may affect weight, and exercise. "No". I then asked if he was going to offset the results by including the information by means of Q and A of me "No". My response was less than ladylike.
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
The whole system is too focused on one size fits all. you can be fit and heavy, look at powerlifters. Who is going to call Geoff Capes Obese?
The system is flawed and it's damaging patients' health. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"When they go by age height and weight it's impossible to do if you don't feel your age as that is an important factor "
fat percentage and resting heart rate and peak flows need to be measured too.
Breast sizes can skew the readings. |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
"When they go by age height and weight it's impossible to do if you don't feel your age as that is an important factor fat percentage and resting heart rate and peak flows need to be measured too.
Breast sizes can skew the readings."
Nor does it tell you how your organs are functioning because the reading can be from access eating or drinking especially when they go by age had mine recently done she didn't like my positive input |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Our daughters boyfriend is a strength athlete and power lifter also personal trainer and dietician according to his BMI he obese. It’s a loads of bollocks |
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The same reason they seem to obsess over blood sugar levels.
My dad is 95. The doctor told him his blood sugar levels are slightly raised, not to pre-diabetic levels but he should cut back on sugar to avoid potential problems in the future. So a 95 year old man is denying himself small pleasures such as chocolate biscuits be because the doctor can't tailor advice to the patient. I mean just how much future does she think my dad has!? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
Well, unless you are using someone else's pictures that is obviously absurd nonsense, and your comment about your father, aged 95, sadly confirms the worrying impression that a lot of 'medical professionals' are increasingly not only very unprofessional but lack basic common sense and decency, and are robotic and idiotic rather than kind or caring. Bureaucratic theoretical computer driven theories are no substitute for real professional experienced and informed judgment and individual examinations. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
BMI isn’t accurate. It’s known not to take into account muscle mass, bust size, hair, etc.
It’s just like testing for cholesterol. They concentrate on the ‘total’ score, which can fluctuate and includes the HDL score (good fat). My recent test showed mine to be very high, even though my HDL is above average. The HDL ratio to the total score is a more accurate, taking it well below the minimum requirement. However, the nurse proceeded to give me dietary advice and literature to avoid saturated fats, crisps, fast food, etc. Which is no use to me. As I rarely eat any of that! 
J |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
BMI isn’t accurate. It’s known not to take into account muscle mass, bust size, hair, etc.
It’s just like testing for cholesterol. They concentrate on the ‘total’ score, which can fluctuate and includes the HDL score (good fat). My recent test showed mine to be very high, even though my HDL is above average. The HDL ratio to the total score is a more accurate, taking it well below the minimum requirement. However, the nurse proceeded to give me dietary advice and literature to avoid saturated fats, crisps, fast food, etc. Which is no use to me. As I rarely eat any of that!
J"
I was prescribed statins which I didn't take. At my next appointment the doctor congratulated me on the reduction in my cholesterol level and commented that the statins were obviously working... The actual cause was the doc eventually getting my dose of levithyroxine correct.
I think we all need to realise that doctors are fallible human beings. We need to question what they tell us, ask them how they've come to their decision and as far as possible do our own research. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
It's a fair point. But as you've admitted you need to do a bit of weight so it was a good and timely conversation to have. Next step is surely to make some changes to do what you've admitted you need to do rather than worry about what label was ascribed to it.?
And yes not nice being driven to tears but maintaining a healthy weight is a serious matter and sometimes we need a carrot or a stick or both. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
yes I've never got this either my weight hasn't changed by more that a few kilos in 30 years bit more waist but not fat, not sure it's based on an average and some people aren't average  |
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"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it."
If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The same reason they seem to obsess over blood sugar levels.
My dad is 95. The doctor told him his blood sugar levels are slightly raised, not to pre-diabetic levels but he should cut back on sugar to avoid potential problems in the future. So a 95 year old man is denying himself small pleasures such as chocolate biscuits be because the doctor can't tailor advice to the patient. I mean just how much future does she think my dad has!?"
Very good point. 
Comprising quality of life in ensuring well-being is sometimes ignored by GP’s, some who haven’t really got a clue on how best to treat patients. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
Sorry to hear you were upset. Medical appointments should never end like that! BMI doesn't work for me either: I know I'm not I'm overweight!
Maybe think about other measures that would be more appropriate for your body, like body fat percentage etc? |
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"The same reason they seem to obsess over blood sugar levels.
My dad is 95. The doctor told him his blood sugar levels are slightly raised, not to pre-diabetic levels but he should cut back on sugar to avoid potential problems in the future. So a 95 year old man is denying himself small pleasures such as chocolate biscuits be because the doctor can't tailor advice to the patient. I mean just how much future does she think my dad has!?
Very good point.
Comprising quality of life in ensuring well-being is sometimes ignored by GP’s, some who haven’t really got a clue on how best to treat patients."
I don't want to err too much on the side of criticism because my dad and my mum in particular have had some excellent care. I do think though that gps in particular are required to give certain advice e.g. weight, sugar levels and record that they have done so. This leaves little room for individual circumstances.
A consultant wrote to my gp that I was obese. I weigh between 9stone 1 and 9 stone 5  . The gp laughed, so did I . This gp also told me "it's not about adding years to your life but life to your years".
I think take the advice of a doctor, they are the experts but think about why they've given it. |
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"The same reason they seem to obsess over blood sugar levels.
My dad is 95. The doctor told him his blood sugar levels are slightly raised, not to pre-diabetic levels but he should cut back on sugar to avoid potential problems in the future. So a 95 year old man is denying himself small pleasures such as chocolate biscuits be because the doctor can't tailor advice to the patient. I mean just how much future does she think my dad has!?"
My Dad (83) was diagnosed as pre diabetic, which is incredibly common in elderly people. The doc agreed trying to get him to remember a completely different pattern around meals etc would be of greater distress than the risk of him having pre diabetes. Dad doesn't even remember that he's had that diagnosis. |
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"The same reason they seem to obsess over blood sugar levels.
My dad is 95. The doctor told him his blood sugar levels are slightly raised, not to pre-diabetic levels but he should cut back on sugar to avoid potential problems in the future. So a 95 year old man is denying himself small pleasures such as chocolate biscuits be because the doctor can't tailor advice to the patient. I mean just how much future does she think my dad has!?
My Dad (83) was diagnosed as pre diabetic, which is incredibly common in elderly people. The doc agreed trying to get him to remember a completely different pattern around meals etc would be of greater distress than the risk of him having pre diabetes. Dad doesn't even remember that he's had that diagnosis. "
My dad isn't even pre-diabetic. I really can't see the point but the doctor has ticked a box so it's ok. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
Sorry to hear you were upset. Medical appointments should never end like that! BMI doesn't work for me either: I know I'm not I'm overweight!
Maybe think about other measures that would be more appropriate for your body, like body fat percentage etc?"
Absolutely. Do what works. But don't ignore red flags just because they are clumsily delivered. Visceral fat can be dangerous. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
BMI isn’t accurate. It’s known not to take into account muscle mass, bust size, hair, etc.
It’s just like testing for cholesterol. They concentrate on the ‘total’ score, which can fluctuate and includes the HDL score (good fat). My recent test showed mine to be very high, even though my HDL is above average. The HDL ratio to the total score is a more accurate, taking it well below the minimum requirement. However, the nurse proceeded to give me dietary advice and literature to avoid saturated fats, crisps, fast food, etc. Which is no use to me. As I rarely eat any of that!
J
I was prescribed statins which I didn't take. At my next appointment the doctor congratulated me on the reduction in my cholesterol level and commented that the statins were obviously working... The actual cause was the doc eventually getting my dose of levithyroxine correct.
I think we all need to realise that doctors are fallible human beings. We need to question what they tell us, ask them how they've come to their decision and as far as possible do our own research. "
Exactly! We work together with our doctors for better outcomes. And I'm sure most Dr's would appreciate constructive feedback too. Unless we tell them, they wi never know. |
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Waist/chest measurement is a far more reliable measure of health issues.
Basically, if you have a gut you are more likely to be ill.
Its not a given...you can still be "fat" in appearance and be metabolically healthy...but it is rarer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is why I love my Cardiologist, at my last appointment I told him I was worried about my weight but he said I looked normal and to
ignore BMI as my cholesterol levels are within the normal range
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
You’re right BMI doesn’t fit all, as long as you’re happy how you are. You look lovely x"
Sorry thats just dangerous nonsense. If her doctor is giving her medical advice, your simping doesn't invalidate that advice |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
Damn you look fine to us !!. Either the doc is being a little ott or it improves their stats in some way  |
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I see my consultant once a year at the hospital. Some years ago they started taking the height and weight of everyone while they were waiting. My favourite time I was called in. She took my height - which hadn't changed in over 20 years, then we both looked down at my 7 month pregnant belly and laughed. We didn't check my weight on that occasion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
My Gym has a bodytrax machine, it measures body composition including visceral fat, might be worth checking out.
I am overweight I know it and losing it slowly, but my visceral fat is within the normal range |
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I have to laugh at most of the comments in this thread. Id be willing to bet lots of the same people in here were the same 'listen to the science!' brigade during covid times, and now when the science being delivered isnt what they want to hear, we're all now happy to dismiss it.
Some clown above even said he youtubes his medical conditions! |
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By *egoMan
over a year ago
Preston |
I’m obese to. 184cm and 100kg. Im meant to be 84kg.
But look at me, i can bench my body weight, do pull ups, squat nearly 1.5x my bw and deadlift very nearly 2x my bodyweight.
Its just a rough guideline and shouldn't be taken as gospel by both patient and doctor.
Nobody should get hung up on it. |
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"I have to laugh at most of the comments in this thread. Id be willing to bet lots of the same people in here were the same 'listen to the science!' brigade during covid times, and now when the science being delivered isnt what they want to hear, we're all now happy to dismiss it.
Some clown above even said he youtubes his medical conditions! "
I'd trust YouTube over most doctors when it comes to diet and health related symptoms.
As for the science...well maybe they did trust it and have now realised how wrong it all was and now don't trust the hogwash doctors give out.
As a test, when your doc tells you your cholesterol levels are high ask them "What is cholesterol?" and "How much cholesterol does the body make ?".
If they can answer those concisely then, if they mention statins ask them about the "need to treat" ratios for statins.
I asked mine and they just moved on to blood pressure...which was "fine". |
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I am 6’7 and, according to the charts, I am borderline on the overweight on the BMI charts. If you saw me in real life (or looked at my pics) you would know that is so far from the truth.
I believe the BMI charts are probably accurate for the average person with an average build but if you different in any way (namely very tall or particularly muscular) then they fail pretty catastrophically. |
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"I have to laugh at most of the comments in this thread. Id be willing to bet lots of the same people in here were the same 'listen to the science!' brigade during covid times, and now when the science being delivered isnt what they want to hear, we're all now happy to dismiss it.
Some clown above even said he youtubes his medical conditions!
I'd trust YouTube over most doctors when it comes to diet and health related symptoms.
As for the science...well maybe they did trust it and have now realised how wrong it all was and now don't trust the hogwash doctors give out.
As a test, when your doc tells you your cholesterol levels are high ask them "What is cholesterol?" and "How much cholesterol does the body make ?".
If they can answer those concisely then, if they mention statins ask them about the "need to treat" ratios for statins.
I asked mine and they just moved on to blood pressure...which was "fine". "
I dont know what any of that means, which is why i listen to those qualified to speak about it.
If someone doesn't like the advice they are getting from their doctor, then they should go get a second opinion from another medical professional. People on here dismissing the doctors advice is just irresponsible. Even if BMI isnt the be all end all, we have no idea of the OPs prior medical history, nor do we have the intimate knowledge the GP will have of her from their own GP/patient relationship. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have to laugh at most of the comments in this thread. Id be willing to bet lots of the same people in here were the same 'listen to the science!' brigade during covid times, and now when the science being delivered isnt what they want to hear, we're all now happy to dismiss it.
Some clown above even said he youtubes his medical conditions! "
Searches "how to remove lump under linoleum".
Ah fuck it....whilst I'm here I might as well search "how to remove lump on bawsack".
 |
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"I have to laugh at most of the comments in this thread. Id be willing to bet lots of the same people in here were the same 'listen to the science!' brigade during covid times, and now when the science being delivered isnt what they want to hear, we're all now happy to dismiss it.
Some clown above even said he youtubes his medical conditions!
I'd trust YouTube over most doctors when it comes to diet and health related symptoms.
As for the science...well maybe they did trust it and have now realised how wrong it all was and now don't trust the hogwash doctors give out.
As a test, when your doc tells you your cholesterol levels are high ask them "What is cholesterol?" and "How much cholesterol does the body make ?".
If they can answer those concisely then, if they mention statins ask them about the "need to treat" ratios for statins.
I asked mine and they just moved on to blood pressure...which was "fine".
I dont know what any of that means, which is why i listen to those qualified to speak about it.
If someone doesn't like the advice they are getting from their doctor, then they should go get a second opinion from another medical professional. People on here dismissing the doctors advice is just irresponsible. Even if BMI isnt the be all end all, we have no idea of the OPs prior medical history, nor do we have the intimate knowledge the GP will have of her from their own GP/patient relationship. "
When I say I trust YouTube, I am referring to channels run by professionals. For example, when the head of cardiotherasic surgery at a major hospital says "Eat fat, lots of it. Don't worry about cholesterol"...then I listen.
If you want to know what your doctor does (or doesn't know) then go to "Low Carb Down Under" channel and see what current thinking is on these topics.
Problem with most docs is they qualified years ago and haven't stayed current. I have spent the last 2 yrs researching this stuff.
Its mind blowing when you find out the truth. |
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"If you want to know what your doctor does (or doesn't know) then go to "Low Carb Down Under" channel and see what current thinking is on these topics.
Problem with most docs is they qualified years ago and haven't stayed current. I have spent the last 2 yrs researching this stuff.
Its mind blowing when you find out the truth."
LMAO!
Source: “trust me bro”
Unbelievable |
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"If you want to know what your doctor does (or doesn't know) then go to "Low Carb Down Under" channel and see what current thinking is on these topics.
Problem with most docs is they qualified years ago and haven't stayed current. I have spent the last 2 yrs researching this stuff.
Its mind blowing when you find out the truth.
LMAO!
Source: “trust me bro”
Unbelievable "
Go look. Low Carb Down Under.
All doctors, surgeons and professors.
Or, just sit in ignorance and mock. Your choice. |
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"If you want to know what your doctor does (or doesn't know) then go to "Low Carb Down Under" channel and see what current thinking is on these topics.
Problem with most docs is they qualified years ago and haven't stayed current. I have spent the last 2 yrs researching this stuff.
Its mind blowing when you find out the truth.
LMAO!
Source: “trust me bro”
Unbelievable
Go look. Low Carb Down Under.
All doctors, surgeons and professors.
Or, just sit in ignorance and mock. Your choice. "
I just looked briefly at that. To be fair my consultant advised me to follow a very similar diet. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
Sorry to hear you were upset. Medical appointments should never end like that! BMI doesn't work for me either: I know I'm not I'm overweight!
Maybe think about other measures that would be more appropriate for your body, like body fat percentage etc?
Absolutely. Do what works. But don't ignore red flags just because they are clumsily delivered. Visceral fat can be dangerous. "
Of course. But BMI doesn't distinguish between type or location of fat, so it alone is not a useful indicator for some people. You'd obviously need more context, and I'm not saying you should ignore medical advice! |
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There are good fats ( trans fat ) an bad ( hc something) you need both in your diet do some research an maybe tweak your meals to suit your needs also small steps like not eating after 8 pm an having smaller meals spread throughout the day can make a big difference
The bmi calculator is out dated the scales in boots used to tell me the same thing when I was in my earlier 20 s hitting the gym hard the scales said I needed to lose weight I wanted to gain it
If your happy who cares what anyone else thinks |
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"I have to laugh at most of the comments in this thread. Id be willing to bet lots of the same people in here were the same 'listen to the science!' brigade during covid times, and now when the science being delivered isnt what they want to hear, we're all now happy to dismiss it.
Some clown above even said he youtubes his medical conditions!
I'd trust YouTube over most doctors when it comes to diet and health related symptoms.
As for the science...well maybe they did trust it and have now realised how wrong it all was and now don't trust the hogwash doctors give out.
As a test, when your doc tells you your cholesterol levels are high ask them "What is cholesterol?" and "How much cholesterol does the body make ?".
If they can answer those concisely then, if they mention statins ask them about the "need to treat" ratios for statins.
I asked mine and they just moved on to blood pressure...which was "fine".
I dont know what any of that means, which is why i listen to those qualified to speak about it.
If someone doesn't like the advice they are getting from their doctor, then they should go get a second opinion from another medical professional. People on here dismissing the doctors advice is just irresponsible. Even if BMI isnt the be all end all, we have no idea of the OPs prior medical history, nor do we have the intimate knowledge the GP will have of her from their own GP/patient relationship.
When I say I trust YouTube, I am referring to channels run by professionals. For example, when the head of cardiotherasic surgery at a major hospital says "Eat fat, lots of it. Don't worry about cholesterol"...then I listen.
If you want to know what your doctor does (or doesn't know) then go to "Low Carb Down Under" channel and see what current thinking is on these topics.
Problem with most docs is they qualified years ago and haven't stayed current. I have spent the last 2 yrs researching this stuff.
Its mind blowing when you find out the truth."
The truth. Yay |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
Sorry to hear you were upset. Medical appointments should never end like that! BMI doesn't work for me either: I know I'm not I'm overweight!
Maybe think about other measures that would be more appropriate for your body, like body fat percentage etc?
Absolutely. Do what works. But don't ignore red flags just because they are clumsily delivered. Visceral fat can be dangerous.
Of course. But BMI doesn't distinguish between type or location of fat, so it alone is not a useful indicator for some people. You'd obviously need more context, and I'm not saying you should ignore medical advice!"
Nobody says bmi does that. It's a general guide and indicator. People generally know what is healthy and what isn't. The fact we are a nation of overweight folks and getting more so would indicate we need a little help in making better choices. Bmi can be the start of that conversation. Not the end of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The rugby player/body builder obesity thing for BMI is true... but any of those people will be well aware of where they're at. It's not an argument that applies to most people.
If you go through the process of losing weight it can be a shock to discover where fat lies. Some people just carry it really well. We're also generally more accustomed to seeing more overweight people around us these days. These things can maybe give us an impression that we're in better shape than perhaps we are.
Whether it's needed or not it's not likely to be a bad thing to have a healthy push. |
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs"
I would change doctors if I was you, there is no acceptable reason for a doctor to bully you to the point of crying. |
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"Just show the doctor your fab profile and they'll be 100% convinced that you're as fit as fuck OP!"
Dr's appointments no longer necessary. Just send a photo instead. Unless you're a bloke of course. |
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"Just show the doctor your fab profile and they'll be 100% convinced that you're as fit as fuck OP!
Dr's appointments no longer necessary. Just send a photo instead. Unless you're a bloke of course. "
It's easier for a newbie bloke with no avatar and one line bio, to get a meet here, than it is to GET a doctor's appointment! |
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"I don't use Doctors, I just google it or look at a youtube video.
Go one better. don't use the internet either!
I read tealeaves and apply leeches *nods*"
Leeches have been in short supply since brexit... Slugs work just as well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just show the doctor your fab profile and they'll be 100% convinced that you're as fit as fuck OP!
Dr's appointments no longer necessary. Just send a photo instead. Unless you're a bloke of course.
It's easier for a newbie bloke with no avatar and one line bio, to get a meet here, than it is to GET a doctor's appointment!"
|
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
I would change doctors if I was you, there is no acceptable reason for a doctor to bully you to the point of crying."
Nobody said anything about bullying. It was obviously a difficult conversatiom, but the outcome of her crying doesnt automatically mean the doctor was bullying her |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The rugby player/body builder obesity thing for BMI is true... but any of those people will be well aware of where they're at. It's not an argument that applies to most people.
If you go through the process of losing weight it can be a shock to discover where fat lies. Some people just carry it really well. We're also generally more accustomed to seeing more overweight people around us these days. These things can maybe give us an impression that we're in better shape than perhaps we are.
Whether it's needed or not it's not likely to be a bad thing to have a healthy push."
In my case I carry it well. I can lose 2 stone and people won’t really notice and my clothes are still the same size. I’m waiting on a hip replacement and loss of mobility and chronic pain have had a massive detrimental impact on my usual active lifestyle. It’s frustrating but won’t be forever. What I needed was support and confirmation of hip replacement rather than belittled about “how fat” I was. I’ve had body confidence issues for my whole adult life along with issues with food as a result. It’s a sensitive topic for me and I get triggered easily
F (Mrs) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
I would change doctors if I was you, there is no acceptable reason for a doctor to bully you to the point of crying.
Nobody said anything about bullying. It was obviously a difficult conversatiom, but the outcome of her crying doesnt automatically mean the doctor was bullying her"
The doctor wasn’t bullying, but was certainly insensitive at a time where I need some support, and not to be belittled |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
You’re right BMI doesn’t fit all, as long as you’re happy how you are. You look lovely x"
Ah thank you 
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"…get so hung up on BMI? Especially when it’s been proven not to work for everyone? I had a medical appointment today, where I got yet another lecture about my weight (to the point I ended up in tears)…now there’s no doubt I could do with losing a bit of weight, but I’m 6’1” tall and strong built - I don’t fit the “normal criteria” for women in the BMI thingy…is it just me who feels insecure about this?
Mrs
Well, unless you are using someone else's pictures that is obviously absurd nonsense, and your comment about your father, aged 95, sadly confirms the worrying impression that a lot of 'medical professionals' are increasingly not only very unprofessional but lack basic common sense and decency, and are robotic and idiotic rather than kind or caring. Bureaucratic theoretical computer driven theories are no substitute for real professional experienced and informed judgment and individual examinations."
Our pics are 100% ours and genuine with no filters (think we only have one couple pic as public). As someone who had issues with body confidence for most of her life, finding confidence to post pics on here was a big deal and I was finally feeling good about myself. The doc made me feel very triggered - I will obviously get over it, but still…
F (Mrs) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"…
Mrs
Well, unless you are using someone else's pictures that is obviously absurd nonsense, and your comment about your father, aged 95, sadly confirms the worrying impression that a lot of 'medical professionals' are increasingly not only very unprofessional but lack basic common sense and decency, and are robotic and idiotic rather than kind or caring. Bureaucratic theoretical computer driven theories are no substitute for real professional experienced and informed judgment and individual examinations.
Our pics are 100% ours and genuine with no filters (think we only have one couple pic as public). As someone who had issues with body confidence for most of her life, finding confidence to post pics on here was a big deal and I was finally feeling good about myself. The doc made me feel very triggered - I will obviously get over it, but still…
F (Mrs)"
Well I think that you look great and wish that I had your figure (OK, I know that unlike you I am not a real woman, but still!) so I wouldn't worry too much.
Lucy
X |
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“If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics.“
Can you please tell general practice medics similar? Cos I’ve had decades now of them misdiagnosing me and mistreating me cos they take one look see I’m fat and assume that whatever is wrong with me MUST be related to the fact I am fat.
“Nobody says bmi does that. It's a general guide and indicator.”
Yet gps and practice nurses still treat it as if it’s a diagnostic tool that outclasses all other indicators.
During the pandemic when appointments were by phone and so they couldn’t immediately see I was fat, I had 3 conditions finally correctly diagnosed because that bias was removed!
Over the years I’ve regularly been checked for diabetes, high cholesterol, high bp etc NOT because I had any symptoms that indicated a need for these tests but purely because I am fat. Every time they came back well within healthy ranges indeed if anything they’re quite low.
General practitioners need better training rather than relying on an outdated model created not even by a medical professional but a statistician!
It’s also sexist and racist as the initial model is, as with most medical “knowledge”, based on the white male body as default. This bias costs lives - not even exaggerating.
Means medics focus on the wrong “red flags” while ignoring others.
In addition fat shaming, psychologically has been proven to have the reverse effect to that which it is intended to achieve, that positive reinforcement works far better. This is applied to smokers, addicts and pretty much anybody with other unhealthy habits but NOT fat people. We are still treated as if we are stupid and lazy simply because we are fat. |
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"“If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics.“
Can you please tell general practice medics similar? Cos I’ve had decades now of them misdiagnosing me and mistreating me cos they take one look see I’m fat and assume that whatever is wrong with me MUST be related to the fact I am fat.
“Nobody says bmi does that. It's a general guide and indicator.”
Yet gps and practice nurses still treat it as if it’s a diagnostic tool that outclasses all other indicators.
During the pandemic when appointments were by phone and so they couldn’t immediately see I was fat, I had 3 conditions finally correctly diagnosed because that bias was removed!
Over the years I’ve regularly been checked for diabetes, high cholesterol, high bp etc NOT because I had any symptoms that indicated a need for these tests but purely because I am fat. Every time they came back well within healthy ranges indeed if anything they’re quite low.
General practitioners need better training rather than relying on an outdated model created not even by a medical professional but a statistician!
It’s also sexist and racist as the initial model is, as with most medical “knowledge”, based on the white male body as default. This bias costs lives - not even exaggerating.
Means medics focus on the wrong “red flags” while ignoring others.
In addition fat shaming, psychologically has been proven to have the reverse effect to that which it is intended to achieve, that positive reinforcement works far better. This is applied to smokers, addicts and pretty much anybody with other unhealthy habits but NOT fat people. We are still treated as if we are stupid and lazy simply because we are fat. "
'sexist and racist'
Sound the klaxon |
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"“If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics.“
Can you please tell general practice medics similar? Cos I’ve had decades now of them misdiagnosing me and mistreating me cos they take one look see I’m fat and assume that whatever is wrong with me MUST be related to the fact I am fat.
“Nobody says bmi does that. It's a general guide and indicator.”
Yet gps and practice nurses still treat it as if it’s a diagnostic tool that outclasses all other indicators.
During the pandemic when appointments were by phone and so they couldn’t immediately see I was fat, I had 3 conditions finally correctly diagnosed because that bias was removed!
Over the years I’ve regularly been checked for diabetes, high cholesterol, high bp etc NOT because I had any symptoms that indicated a need for these tests but purely because I am fat. Every time they came back well within healthy ranges indeed if anything they’re quite low.
General practitioners need better training rather than relying on an outdated model created not even by a medical professional but a statistician!
It’s also sexist and racist as the initial model is, as with most medical “knowledge”, based on the white male body as default. This bias costs lives - not even exaggerating.
Means medics focus on the wrong “red flags” while ignoring others.
In addition fat shaming, psychologically has been proven to have the reverse effect to that which it is intended to achieve, that positive reinforcement works far better. This is applied to smokers, addicts and pretty much anybody with other unhealthy habits but NOT fat people. We are still treated as if we are stupid and lazy simply because we are fat.
'sexist and racist'
Sound the klaxon"
It is well documented that women and people from non white ethnic backgrounds experience poorer healthcare outcomes than they should. Women reporting pain are more likely to be given psychiatric diagnoses than have tests to determine the cause of their pain, compared to men. Women-specific health issues, such as gynaecological issues, are woefully under treated and recognised.
I have first hand experience of this and after more than 20 years of gynaecological problems, am finally getting some answers. Twenty years. For conditions that have been known about for a hell of a lot longer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The NHS applies the results of mass testing to each individual regardless of their specific circumstance.
Its a shame when a once revered health service is now nothing more than a lackey to financial and political constraints.
Just a bunch of medics from Uni that drank too much.
Treat them with scant disregard.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you look up the origin of the BMI scheme it was reported as an invention of US insurance companies to use a bell curve of the population to dictate their insurance premiums. It's statistical not medical and basically a load of bunkham.
I happily ignore pseudo-science and follow a balanced diet avoiding fake food stuffs as much as I can, combined with reasonable exercise. I'm human not a robot, I have cheat days for birthdays and holidays, etc. It's about living well not a competition.
I don't think there's a person alive who doesn't know if they are due for shedding a pound or two. But also, weight is seasonal and has lots of contributing factors.
Be healthy & happy and take care OP |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So BMI doesn't work because it's racist and based on white males from way back.
Doctors shouldn't point out if somebody is overweight because... fatshaming.
Meanwhile most people in the population are overweight. Many obese. But this isn't a cause or contributor to people's health issues 
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How the fuck did you manage to see a Doctor! "
Yes; I am meant to see a GP once a year even if I am not seriously ill because of my condition (and I have been ill several times a year) and I haven't seen one for well over four years, probably five or more. Luckily I have managed to stay out of hospital and haven't needed an ambulance for over two and a half years now, and saw a specialist for the first time since then recently after the same length of time (normally every six months). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"....
Meanwhile most people in the population are overweight. Many obese. But this isn't a cause or contributor to people's health issues
"
Quite true of course, but I really don't think that you could claim that is the case for this lady! |
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"....
Meanwhile most people in the population are overweight. Many obese. But this isn't a cause or contributor to people's health issues
Quite true of course, but I really don't think that you could claim that is the case for this lady!"
How would you possibly know that from a photo? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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According to my GP my BMI is firmly in the morbid obese. Comfortably into the selection so much so he was amazed I was still walking.
I know I could lose some weight, but according to the BMI, I should be at most 11 stone.. umm I haven't been 11 stone since I was about 13 not likely to change now.
Only 1 person has ever been the correct BMI, they didn't live long as I understand it. Even a corpse doesn't fit standard BMI ratings. |
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Seems to me this thread has more folks wishing to pick holes in an arbitrary guide than the fact they need to lose weight. If you need to lose weight (or gain it).. Body fat, visceral fat.. Doesn't really matter what label you want to haggle over. |
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Doctors have to tick the box to record that they've had certain conversations with patients, regardless of the size and shape of the patient or the circumstances surrounding the visit.
Shaggy is 6'5" and his bmi fluctuates between being clinically underweight and the very bottom end of normal. He works as a postie and his average annual step count is 6 million, he walks more miles in a year than my car drives! At his last appointment the doctor gave him the lecture about bmi, eating a healthy diet and taking enough excerise. It was totally pointless! |
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There’s a tidal wave of evidence growing that tells us that BMI is not an accurate assessment of objective health, for numerous reasons.
The most obvious problem is that the sample population the original data was derived from was not a genuinely representative cross-section of society, almost as big an issue is the fact that the calculations are now ancient history, and as a general rule we are taller and less malnourished than previously. BMI is basically a statistical analysis of where your body shape & percentage fat are in relation to a statistically average human, but that average has never been updated.
The only way we should be using a BMI calculation is to compare an individual with that same individual over time; it doesn’t matter what your score is, just worry about the direction it is trending in- if the number is going up, you’re gaining mass, if it goes down, your losing mass…so it doesn’t tell us anything the scales aren’t already telling us anyway, so it can be ignored completely
If you’re trying to live healthily, try to focus on real-world, pragmatic assessment techniques- how well do you fit into your favourite jeans? Are you more or less breathless walking up the hill? Can you keep up with your dog/kids/gimp when you take them out for some exercise? That’s all that really matters. |
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"Doctors have to tick the box to record that they've had certain conversations with patients, regardless of the size and shape of the patient or the circumstances surrounding the visit.
Shaggy is 6'5" and his bmi fluctuates between being clinically underweight and the very bottom end of normal. He works as a postie and his average annual step count is 6 million, he walks more miles in a year than my car drives! At his last appointment the doctor gave him the lecture about bmi, eating a healthy diet and taking enough excerise. It was totally pointless! "
Docs seem uninterested in Mr KC's below "healthy" BMI. But they're extremely interested in mine being above 25. It is curious, when being underweight has many health issues potentially associated with it. But never mind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"as a general rule we are taller and less malnourished than previously. BMI is basically a statistical analysis of where your body shape & percentage fat are in relation to a statistically average human, but that average has never been updated."
Taller would be accounted in the calculation.
Should the average be updated based on a largely overweight population?
It's just an indicator. But when your doctor suggests you'd benefit from losing weight, they're not fat shaming. They're giving medical advice. You can accept it or ignore it. |
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Of course BMI won't be an accurate representation across 100% of the population. But it's not meant to be a fool-proof diagnostic test - it's just a tool which is quick, easy and cheap to administer with good likelihood of identifying those people whose weight needs more attention.
Weight is a very sensitive subject and there can be massive cognitive dissonance around it, but it's fact that being overweight can be terrible health-wise and it would be negligent for medical professionals to ignore that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you look up the origin of the BMI scheme it was reported as an invention of US insurance companies to use a bell curve of the population to dictate their insurance premiums. It's statistical not medical and basically a load of bunkham.
I happily ignore pseudo-science and follow a balanced diet avoiding fake food stuffs as much as I can, combined with reasonable exercise. I'm human not a robot, I have cheat days for birthdays and holidays, etc. It's about living well not a competition.
I don't think there's a person alive who doesn't know if they are due for shedding a pound or two. But also, weight is seasonal and has lots of contributing factors.
Be healthy & happy and take care OP"
Thank you x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it."
How can you tell if someone has health issues related to anything just by looking at a photo of them? |
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"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it.
How can you tell if someone has health issues related to anything just by looking at a photo of them?"
One look at me you know there’s something just not right!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Reading through more replies, it’s funny how judgemental some people are…And in particular the comments from men are quite interesting to say the least. I’m otherwise healthy apart from carrying a few extra pounds, which fluctuate depending on the time of the month. It’s not like I’m morbidly obese and about to drop dead of a heart attack…
Mrs |
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"Reading through more replies, it’s funny how judgemental some people are…And in particular the comments from men are quite interesting to say the least. I’m otherwise healthy apart from carrying a few extra pounds, which fluctuate depending on the time of the month. It’s not like I’m morbidly obese and about to drop dead of a heart attack…
Mrs "
Where are you getting 'judgemental' comments from? To be honest, it sounds like you only want to see comments that affirm what you already think. People arent obliged to do that.
Looking through this thread, aside from those who are saying what you want to hear, all im seeing is people suggesting that the doctor probably knows best and if youre getting some difficult advice, well thats unfortunate, but perhaps the doctor knows more than anyone else in here.
Im not seeing any judgemental comments, unless your idea of judgemental is people not telling you what you want to hear |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it.
If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics. "
Saying that, skin cancer and changes in the shape, colour and texture of moles can be done by seeing the online pictures. |
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"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it.
If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics.
Saying that, skin cancer and changes in the shape, colour and texture of moles can be done by seeing the online pictures."
But even that is indicative only. You can't properly diagnose cancer of the skin without a biopsy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My doctor told me I needed to lose weight when I was 11 stone. I was healthy and slim. But nope, I was dangerously overweight according to my BMI.
Surely it is outdated and inaccurate? If you're only looking at that one thing and not taking the individual into consideration.
OP if I was you I definitely wouldn't worry about what he's saying. You don't look like you need to lose weight. Do you keep yourself fit? Do you have any weight related health issues? Are you happy?
Maybe I'm just an ignorant woman but that's all I'd be focusing on if he's bashing my weight purely because of BMI. |
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"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it.
If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics.
Saying that, skin cancer and changes in the shape, colour and texture of moles can be done by seeing the online pictures."
Can you imagine that conversation... "well I can't tell if you need to lose weight or not but I can see that you have a mole that needs investigation... And by the way is a shag out of the question.? Youre welcome. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Unless you have health conditions relating to your weight which by looking at your pics I highly doubt I wouldn't worry too much about it, we are all different shapes and sizes it would be quite boring if we was all the same wouldn't it.
If we could detect illness just by looking at pictures on a site we wouldn't need any diagnostics.
Saying that, skin cancer and changes in the shape, colour and texture of moles can be done by seeing the online pictures.
Can you imagine that conversation... "well I can't tell if you need to lose weight or not but I can see that you have a mole that needs investigation... And by the way is a shag out of the question.? Youre welcome."
Best reply yet
Mrs |
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“Doctors shouldn't point out if somebody is overweight because... fatshaming.”
People who are fat know they are fat they don’t need it pointed out to them and they certainly don’t need it done in a highly condescending and derogatory manner as it so often is (and in my experience often by medics who are fatter than me!) nor without genuine practical help to lose weight that isn’t simply medics bleating “eat less move more” especially when “move more” for many is plain not possible - and not because they are fat!
“Meanwhile most people in the population are overweight. Many obese. But this isn't a cause or contributor to people's health issues”
Actually several conditions believed to be caused by being fat are now being discovered to have other causes unrelated to weight. Research is rather outdated as there has not been the scientific/political/financial will to investigate further until recently.
.”Doctors have to tick the box to record that they've had certain conversations with patients,”
Also true - and do you know why they do that? (Also applies to pointless conversations about smoking and alcohol consumption btw - personally I’ve NEVER smoked and am a very low level alcohol consumer yet have repeatedly had gps raise these conversations for no good reason) - because they get bonuses for doing so!
“they're not fat shaming. They're giving medical advice.”
It’s not medical advice when it has little to no medical science basis and merely consists of (as I’d usually the case in my experience) of “well you know you would be better off if you lost weight” which is often given as a response when they are patently unable/unwilling to help with issues that have zero to do with my being fat! Conditions I’ve had since I was a size 6!
“but it's fact that being overweight can be terrible health-wise and it would be negligent for medical professionals to ignore that.”
Again where is the scientific basis for that? I have a healthier blood sugar, bp and cholesterol than a number of my friends and family who are well within a healthy bmi. One in particular had a real battle getting her gp to take her concerns about her heart seriously simply as she is slim (v slim in fact) even though she had symptoms. So the over reliance by general practice is not only failing we fatties it’s failing our slimmer loved ones also. |
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Somebody made a point about gps providing more help for those of us who need to lose weight rather than just highlight the fact we need to. I think that would be really helpful. God know I could use some help. But in the same way as I'd expect the doc to tell me about other medical and mental health concerns. I'd hope they'd highlight my weight if it's a concern. And we could do something about it. |
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Based on BMI I had a doctor say I was obese and I should lose 3.5 stone. I said to him "Feel my stomach, there is hardly any fat there"
"It is all inside you, visceral fat" he said, "Its clogging up your insides."
So I looked into it. 3.5 Stone is 22 kilogrammes. Body fat weighs about 0.9kg per litre so I needed to lose 24.7 litres of fat from inside me. That is almost 5 of those 5 litre emulsion paint pots full. If I was hollow, with no internal organs, I still could not hold that much fat. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People who are fat know they are fat they don’t need it pointed out to them and they certainly don’t need it done in a highly condescending and derogatory manner as it so often is (and in my experience often by medics who are fatter than me!) nor without genuine practical help to lose weight that isn’t simply medics bleating “eat less move more” especially when “move more” for many is plain not possible - and not because they are fat"
It's always irritating to be told you're unhealthy by people who look unhealthy themselves. But also not relevant given the subject is you, not them.
You may not be able to easily move more but you can choose to eat less. Eating less is a far more significant factor in body weight than moving more.
I don't know if the doctor pointed it out in a highly condescending way but just perhaps it's possible it might only feel that way to people who don't want to hear it?
"Actually several conditions believed to be caused by being fat are now being discovered to have other causes unrelated to weight. Research is rather outdated as there has not been the scientific/political/financial will to investigate further until recently."
This is very vague. Until there's specifics I'll assume it's better for people's health to be less fat than more.
"It’s not medical advice when it has little to no medical science basis and merely consists of (as I’d usually the case in my experience) of “well you know you would be better off if you lost weight” which is often given as a response when they are patently unable/unwilling to help with issues that have zero to do with my being fat! Conditions I’ve had since I was a size 6! "
I'd consider years of medical training to qualify somebody to issue medical advice. I don't have to accept it.
I'm in the overweight section for BMI myself. It doesn't bother me because I'm happy with myself and my health. When my weight increases I check other measurements to help me decide if I should eat less jammy dodgers.
It must be very frustrating for doctors to have to try and help people who won't help themselves.
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